NeroLinux vs. K3b

An anonymous reader writes "Flexbeta.net compares NeroLinux to K3b under Fedora Core 3. The review notices how NeroLinux does nothing with the eye candy while K3b's GUI is no comparison to NeroLinux. The article also mentions how cumbersome it is to navigate through NeroLinux, also taking note of how long each application takes to accomplish burning tasks."

Comments

Re:NeroLinux ?

[Ender_Stonebender]

No, it isn't what you think. It's just a Linux version of the Nero software, made by the same people who made Nero for Windows. You probably missed it because there weren't very many dupes of it.

--Ender

Re:NeroLinux ?

[dleifelohcs]

Why do you say that? It is manufactured by Ahead, much like the Nero for Windows. Stop, think, and read next time, before posting things like that.

MirrorDot

[Anonymous Coward]

MirrorDot link. It's not there yet, but let's hope they'll have it mirrored soon...

Re:MirrorDot

[Anonymous Coward]

not much good if it doesn't mirror anything beyond the first page of the article.

world--

Re:MirrorDot

[Anonymous Coward]

Try this one, the full article.. when it's available..
http://www.flexbeta.net.nyud.net:8090/main/printar ticle.php?id=86

Re:MirrorDot

[northcat]

Not much use. The article is divided over many pages with a very short introduction page as the first page and mirrordot has mirrored only the first page. The poster could have linked to the printable version, but then the site would have been slashdotted sooner (or not due to the lack of graphics on the printable versions).

Re:NeroLinux ?

[maubp]

No - NeroLinux is actually released by Nero themselves:

http://ww2.nero.com/us/NeroLINUX.html

CD Burning

[ectotherm]

I imagine NERO Linux must have quite the CD burning capability...

Image writing

[LiquidCoooled]

The article says that:

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

Isn't the NRG image format different to ISO, and therefore just renaming the created image just like renaming a jpeg image to GIF?
The burning software may assume the format from the data, but that sounds like bad practice, and definately not advisable.

So, my question, does NeroLinux create true ISO images?

Re:Image writing

[Anonymous Coward]

I opened a .nrg file with k3b the other day and it reconised it as an iso image, perhaps they are the same thing?

Re:Image writing

[northcat]

Parent is not redundant. NRG files may look like ISO files (don't know, haven't tried), but I've seen that NRG files are bigger than a corresponding ISO file. Maybe NRG files contain an ISO + additional information. BTW, on Windows, whenever I've tried renaming NRG files to ISO it hasn't worked.

Re:Image writing

[ESqVIP]

Reading your own quote from the article:

NeroLinux completed the image in 9 seconds. The file name was saved as music.iso, which I had to add the file extension manually, though it was by default set to .NRG.

I'd assume the default format was Nero's format. Then, when the article author changed it to ISO, the application simply removed the .nrg extension from the filename field, without suffixing it with .iso.

Re:Image writing

[Quinn]

Same here. Unless things have changed since I last tried a few months ago, K3B does not burn NRG files. And since many, uh, "items" are "distributed" as NRG files, NeroLinux wins for burning ITS OWN FILES.

Re:Image writing

[zipn00b]

NRG is apparently sort of an ISO with some Nero-specific header info. I've heard you can strip the header and get a real ISO but I found a nrg2iso rpm that makes it real easy. Google is my friend....

Re:Image writing

[rebel]

.nrg files are .iso files with a 300kb header. I use the following simple script to convert:

#!/bin/bash
#
# Convert Nero .nrg format to .iso format.

error()
{
echo "${@}" >&2
exit 1
}

INPUT="${1}"; OUTPUT="${2}"
[ -z "${OUTPUT}" ] && OUTPUT="${INPUT%.*}.iso"

[ ${#} -ne 1 -a ${#} -ne 2 ] &&
error "Usage: $(basename ${0}) file.nrg [file.iso]"

[ ! -e "${INPUT}" ] && error "${INPUT}: file does not exist"
[ ! -s "${INPUT}" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is null"

TYPE=$(file -b "${INPUT}"); TYPE="${TYPE%% *}"

[ "${TYPE}" = "ISO" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is already in .iso format"
[ "${TYPE}" != "data" ] && error "${INPUT}: file is not in .nrg format"

dd if="${INPUT}" of="${OUTPUT}" bs=1024 skip=300

Re:Image writing

[sumdumass]

Nero can make a ISO in addition to a NRG file. I believe the NRG file is optomized to work with thier virtualy cd software that eventualy gets mounted so the software thinks it is reading from an actual cd drive.

Re:Image writing

[Dysan2k]

Mod this up, please. Excellent info!

Re:Image writing

[John Courtland]

I haven't tested it, but this is great if it works. Thanks for sharing.

Re:Image writing

[Anonymous Coward]

.NRG files are NOT .iso files. There is a program, nrg2iso, that will strip the NRG header and leave you with a plain .iso, but only for some (data) .NRG image types.

If you create a multisession/CD-EXTRA style .NRG file, you cannot just rename it to .iso, and nrg2iso will NOT work.

Lastly, if it's an audio CD, calling the .NRG an .iso image is plain wrong! It's not ISO-9660 or anything else. It's CD-AUDIO. .Iso is for data CDs only, and even then it doesn't have all the info in it the cd writer actually needs. NRG has more info in it than just .iso. It needs to in order to support more image types than just data cds.

Disclaimer:

I write cd burning software professionally. I have the official phillips/sony cd specs right in front of me, and have used the NeroAPI, Primo HPCDE and Goldenhawk extensively. ;)

Re:Image writing

[LiquidCoooled]

That is the thing I was worrying about, and does answer part of my query, but it still doesn't answer whether Nero itself will output a true ISO file when you create and save an image as "music.iso", or if it outputs a NRG formatted file with an incorrect extension.

I wouldn't want to blow somebodies computer up by giving them a file with incorrect data in.

Re:Image writing

[arodland]

Almost true... a .nrg is either an ISO with a 300kB header, or it's some other stuff with a 300kB header, in which case you can't convert it to an ISO. If you understood the format of the header, you could convert most Nero images to bin/cue or cdrdao TOC format, but as far as I've seen, progress on figuring it out has been limited. On the other hand, your script is quite useful for when you have a Nero image and you know (or hope) that it contains a single Mode 1 Data track. I'd just recommend adding a little bit of extra detection logic so that it can bail informatively when the result isn't an ISO, instead of wasting the time and space to do a useless conversion :)

Re:Image writing

[Pandora's Vox]

if you just call it "music.iso" when you go to save it it will probably save as "music.iso.nrg". you just probably have to select the appropriate format from the drop-down.

Re:Image writing

[Anonymous Coward]

mount -t iso9660 image.nrg /mnt -o loop,offset=307200

tuco

Re:Image writing

[northcat]

Er, thanks, but is most cases just the last dd command is enough. Most of it is just elimentary error checking and you wont need it if you know what kind of file you're dealing with.

Re:Image writing

[LiquidCoooled]

I thought it was only Windows that did that silly naming thing?
But the way it was mentioned in the article was as though it tried to force NRG format save, and he overwrote just the filename, giving possibly an invalid ISO file.
Just didn't sound right.

by the way, the discussion we were having yesterday, somebody has posted a very nice mock up of it here

Re:Image writing

[Anonymous Coward]

nice to know but there is another free util for this: nrg2iso

Re:Image writing

[dahlek]

vcdgear can convert NRG files. I haven't used it recently, and I don't know if Nero has updated their file format...

CDMage is a great Windows tool that can convert to and fro many image formats - it can flawlessly convert CloneCD (bin/cue/ccd) files to bin/cue files for example - required for burning CloneCD images from Linux. CDMage is free and works rather well in WINE. I mention this because I believe that Nero for Windows can write CloneCD image files - it would be handy if a Linux tool could natively write this format...

Re:Image writing

[snuf23]

I can't say for certain as I haven't used the Linux version, but the Windows version can make regular iso files as well as the .nrg. You need to tell it what you want.
It will also burn iso, nrg and bin/cue files.

Re:NeroLinux ?

[mysticwhiskey]

I don't know - what are you thinking? NeroLinux is made by Ahead Software (aka makers of Nero).

Re:NeroLinux ?

[dleifelohcs]

By the way:

http://ww2.nero.com/us/NeroLINUX.html

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/13/ 009200&from=rss

Re:NeroLinux ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just FYI, they are called Nero AG now and not Ahead anymore

Re:NeroLinux ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well we aren't mindreaders are we?

Long story short....

[carlmenezes]

NeroLinux - less options, poor GUI, faster sometimes.
K3B - more options, better GUI, either same speed or slower by a few secs.

Winner - K3B

Conclusion :
Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money.

Re:Long story short....

[LiquidCoooled]

Do not underestimate the power of Brand recognition.

People moving over from Windows will see the name and know what they are getting.
Lack of options is only a problem for those of us who bother with fussing around.

Most people want to simply create a cd.

Re:Long story short....

[mysticwhiskey]

I agree with your conclusion - K3B > NeroLinux. However, one wouldn't criticize their newly-born child for not being able to run like his years-older brother. See this for what is is - more Linux support from predominantly MS Windows-based vendors.

Re:Long story short....

[Apreche]

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for free.

You crazy people think too much into this.

As for k3b and nero yeah, I can see the guys point. But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what. And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor. Also, for some things the linux software just doesn't do it. Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Re:Long story short....

[vleaflet]

There could've been more software than these two. At least some that would not require the huge KDE system (which might slow things up itself).

Re:Long story short....

[northcat]

People are stupid and they'll use Nero because it's commercial and you have to pay for it. Really. I've so many times people on slashdot and other places saying they'll buy something just because it's commercial, without giving any concrete reasons. And also for support.

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people want to simply create a cd.

That's why I use GNOME integrated burning capabilities... no need to use K3B, so Nero?

Re:Long story short....

[RenatoRam]

"works no matter what" ???

Several people trying the NeroLinux beta reported of multiple ruined cds... when was the last time this happened using native linux tools?

Years ago, I'd guess.

If that's the quality of the fabled NeroAPI I think I'll just stay with cdrecord, thank you...

Re:Long story short....

[srid]

Author has no idea why Nero wants users to buy the Windows version so they can use NeroLinux - bad decision because K3B is much better and learning NeroLinux is not worth the time and the money. NeroLinux has packet-writing support, which is much useful when you want to use your 700MB CDRW like a floppy.

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you read the memo? Criticism of commercial applications on Linux is no longer allowed. It might hurt the feelings of the developers.

Re:Long story short....

[Klivian]

>But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools
>on linux, works no matter what.
>Neros advantage is that it works, period.
From the article:
Unfortunately, NeroLinux was reluctant in recognizing the DVD-RW drive, after rebooting several times I was able to see the DVD-RW drive. I must note that I had an extremely complicated time working with NeroLinux. Many times it would not recognize any of my drives until I remounted them.

To me that doesn't sound like it works no matter what, so I don't think you can call it an advantage exactly.

Re:Long story short....

[agurkan]

Analogies should be used to illustrate and explain a point, not to extrapolate from it or to come to conclusions or to give advice.

It is natural that the GNU/Linux community has higher expectations, and is more critical. Higher expectations is usually what makes people part of this community in the first place. If you want to appeal to this community, you have to play a better ball game. IMHO, the criticism is just and well placed. Most of us will not be content with what Windows users are content with, and it is good to let our voice be heard as much as possible.

Re:Long story short....

[Bert64]

Well it is a BETA... I'm sure beta versions of native linux tools were just as bad back when they were this new.. It's not fair to compare a beta product to something which has been around a few years..

Re:Long story short....

[Taladar]

If it worked flawlessly like Nero on Windows does it is worth some money to spare me a whole KDE just to use k3b.

Re:Long story short....

[halivar]

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

So if K3b works on all my systems (and it does), then Nero really doesn't have an advantage at all, does it? I don't really give a crap if Joe-Bob on the Debian list can't get K3b to work; for me, it works, period.

Re:Long story short....

[mysticwhiskey]

Sure, you have a very valid point. My drive is not to strain tenuous analogies beyond their stretching point. Instead it's a desire to see Linux increase in exposure such that we may see the general awareness in Linux being other than a geek's OS (I know it isn't, but think of the masses).

Re:Long story short....

[gallir]

k3b also supports packet-writing.

Re:Long story short....

[Bert64]

The kernel has packet writing too, or atleast patches exist, so you can actually mount it and copy files straight onto it like a floppy..

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

If it worked flawlessly like Nero on Windows does it is worth some money to spare me a whole KDE just to use k3b.

k3b doesn't need 'a whole KDE', just kdelibs and kdebase.

Re:Long story short....

[makomk]

You can get packet writing to CD-RWs on Linux with open-surce software - if you install the right kernel patch, pktcdvd, then create a pktcdvd block device, you can mount it read-write as a UDF filesystem and access it "just like a floppy". Sadly, it doesn't support CD-Rs

It's a bit tricky to find the patch and the utility to create the device node - there's a SourceForge page, but that's years out of date. Take a look at the mailing list.

Re:Long story short....

[swillden]

But the fact is that nero, unlike the open source burning tools on linux, works no matter what.

Is that a fact? Have any evidence? Because what you say makes no sense. Unless Nero bypasses the operating system somehow, it has to use the same Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use, and the problems people have with burners are related to the OS-level configuration -- device nodes, permissiones, etc. (well, I suppose some may have problems because they installed k3b but omitted cdrecord, but that's the distro's fault; decent distros do automatic dependency management).

And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor.

Like what? I may be out of touch here, but the last significant innovation I know of in burner APIs is Burnproof, and k3b etc. support that just fine.

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Neros advantage is that it works, period. If you think that k3b works period with a full featureset on all hardware then feel free to peruse any distro mailing lists and forums for people who can't get burning to work. Especially of DVDs.

Well, if you RTFA, you'll see that the author had trouble getting Nero to work on his hardware, whereas k3b worked, period.

In summary: None of your arguments hold water. Got any others?

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, for some things the linux software just doesn't do it. Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

k3b works excellent for buring video DVD's (something like "New Project->Video DVD").

But you're right about authoring. I usually end up using some Windows software to create the DVD menus and stuff (TMmpeg DVD Author or similar). I then burn it with a k3b DVD Video project.

I have never had a problem with k3b not being able to burn a DVD of any type. I've used both Firewire/SCSI (Sony) and IDE (NEC) DVD burners.

Re:Long story short....

[Enahs]

I've always heard that Nautilus can do anything that k3b can, but I've never gotten it to do things like, say, burn an audio CD. Can you comment? I was under the impression that all one had to do was drop music files on a CD Creator "folder". Never gotten it to work, though. I suppose I could be doing something wrong, but if I am, isn't the point of automagic Nautilus burning that I don't have to think?

Re:Long story short....

[ookaze]

So I think the MS zealot modders are out, for this to be deemed insightful.

So you explains why they want us Linux users to buy a Windows version. OK, well, a lot of vocal people whine about installation woes on Linux, you just added one harder way to install software on Linux. Given the difficulty of installing NeroLinux on Linux, even I would not install it (I say even I because my custom Linux is based on LFS, you know what that means ? I can endure a lot).
And then you say "you crazy people think too much into this" ? I wonder who is the crazy one. You say we are crazy for not wanting to go through all of this, when K3B comes with any distro ?

And you should not do astroturfing, you are very bad at it.
Unlike what you say, K3B WORKS no matter what. That means if you have no recognised driver for your burner, no device, no I do-not-know what, K3B will still work, you will still be able to do ISO. But I will not lie like you did, and say that it will burn the CD when you are in any of the situation I described. Actually, there is an option in latest Linux 2.6 kernels preventing you from burning when non-root. I'm pretty sure NeroLinux can not bypass that. K3B can't.
When people who can't burn on the forums like you said, that is not because of K3B, but I see your red herring quite well. It's easily dismissed, I can tell you to go see the forums for people that can not burn on Windows (or lose a lot of CD, like I did on Windows), there are far more.
I know 10+ clueless users, they could not burn with Nero (too complicated), they can barely with K3B (still sometimes asking me if they should create audio CD or data CD), so I know K3B is more usable. But you would want them to master and burn VIDEOs ?!! I guess you slipped to the case of the power user on purpose, thinking we would not notice.

Then, as we are in the case of power user, let me tell you there are several well known mastering and burning tool for DVDs on Linux. Mastering a DVD is not an easy task, or if it is, then you talk about very simple mastering. I can tell you then that dvdrip on Linux is more than enough for that task. If your argument is that K3B does not integrate that, then I understand even more why K3B is more usable : it is a burning tool, and only a burning tool. DVDRip include the burning mastering anyway.

3 years of using K3B tells me it just works, and you, with some weeks of NeroLinux, you dare tell me it just works ?!!!
I can never understand you arrogant people, calling us crazy.

Re:Long story short....

[Tassach]

when was the last time this happened using native linux tools?

How about yesterday? I wanted to make a copy of a CD for a friend... put the disks in the appropriate drives, fired up K3B under FC3, and hit copy. Pretty straightforward, right? Well, the burner turned on for about 3 seconds and then barfed, leaving me with a coaster. Tried again, same results. Since I was under time pressure I fired up windows and copied it using Nero. No problems at all.

Last week I used cdparanoia to recover one of my son's CDs that got mangled (toddlers and CDs - not a good mix). CDParanoia did a great job of getting the data off the mangled disk, but K3B refused to properly finalize the disk when I burned it. It still plays OK, but after the last track plays the CD player shows an error message. Annoying because it keeps random play from working, but that's not fatal.

Re:Long story short....

[digidave]

It's been a while, but I think I just right-clicked on a folder or highlighted MP3s and clicked "Burn to CD" or something like that. Real easy.

Re:Long story short....

[CRC'99]

Sadly, this is the story of most OSS developers too :|

Are you listening Gnome dudes?

Bottom line, if you have an attitude like that, then there is no way in hell linux will make it to the desktop for the mass-market. This isn't rocket science, but a lot of people just don't see the big picture...

Re:Long story short....

[simcop2387]

you should check out qdvdauthor, still kinda beta, but it works rather well, with dvdauthor you can do it all with xml, and a little more than i've seen most windows dvd authoring software let you.

http://qdvdauthor.sf.net/

Re:Long story short....

[GMC-jimmy]

I'm sure beta versions of native linux tools were just as bad back when they were this new..

Ahh, no. I was using Linux back then, and even the beta software was reliable for most daily tasks. I'm not a programmer so I can't tell why that is at the code level. But as a daily user of both Windows and Linux I can tell that there's a distinct difference between a general Linux programmer and a general Windows programmer. I see the general Linux programmer takes far more pride in their work. Especially so when their source code is in full public view.

Re:Long story short....

[SirTalon42]

Nero has never worked 'flawlessly' for me on windows, till I formatted the hard drive a few weeks ago it had gotten into a whole thing where it would only burn up to 5% then die (couldn't even kill it with Task Manager).

Re:Long story short....

[jedidiah]

It has not yet been established that the Linux version of Nero works any better on the oddball systems that choke k3b than k3b itself does.

Ignoring the fact that debian test doesn't get along well with k3b has SQUAT to do with whether or not Linux will make it on the desktop since the target desktop user isn't going to go anywhere near debian.

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

Most Nero install CDs ship with CD burners. The eventual inclusion of a Linux version will help Nero stake out more territory.

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but...

If (Win)Nero is what new Linux users are used to, and by comparison NeroLinux sux, joe blow will think "hmm...Linux can't 'do Nero right'."

All these companies jumping on the Linux bandwagon sets me ILL AT EASE.
HP laptop + Crappily-configured Linux = Crap
WallMart box + Crapola Linux = Crap
Nero ...etc. Perception is everything -at least in the US. Nice blindside in the 'war'... think about it.

Re:Long story short....

[peter_gzowski]

Unless Nero bypasses the operating system somehow, it has to use the same Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use, and the problems people have with burners are related to the OS-level configuration

Let me say first that I'm a big k3b fan, but often the burning in k3b does not "just work". The main reason I've found is that k3b relies on cdrecord for much of its work, and until lately, cdrecord often seemed to have weird issues with the 2.6 kernel. This meant that unless you matched the cdrecord version with the kernel version that was tested by the distribution (Mandrake for me), you would get weird issues (OPC failing, mainly). I can't RTFA, as it seems to be /.'ed, but I assume that Nero does not use cdrecord as its backend, so it could just work, although it seems that the article author says otherwise.

Re:Long story short....

[Skuto]

>Is that a fact? Have any evidence? Because what you
>say makes no sense. Unless Nero bypasses the
>operating system somehow, it has to use the same
>Linux APIs that k3b et al have to use

Nero is able to talk to the burner directly (via the kernel API). Since it knows the features of the drivers better than k3b does, it can work better.

Re:Long story short....

[xtracto]

In some way, I agree with GP, NeroLinux is the first attempt by Ahead to a Linux-burning software. I think they may been only testing the ground (and market) to see how may people use his program in Linux.

I have not seen NeroLinux working but, I guess that appart from "brand recognition" one thing I will search is similar interface, if NeroLinux has a similar interface than Nero for windows then I will surely use it because I am familiar with it, and I think several people will use because of this. I have seen people that does not want to use OOo just because the File/configure page option is in Format menu (Format Page i think), now this IS better but, they are used to the MS stupid way...

As for the lack of options, well, as some other poster said, some people just want to burn something! and the most straightforward way they have it, the better.

You see, for some people, if they open a program and then they see a window with different panels (file system tree, current selected folder option and CD compilation information), they just stare at the screen and say now what?, so thats why Wizzards came in, you tell the computer what you want to burn, you add your files and you start burning, KISS.

Again, Ahead is a profitting company so I guess they are only testing the ground, and after that they may put out a full featured version at some cost.

And, in my opinion, it is great for companies to make software, (does not matter if it is closed, or if it does not have all the options as in other OS), if more and more companies start developing Linux software then we have more and more closed and you-must-buy software for linux, so people wont get scared because "they dont have to pay for it!" (believe I know ppl that think that because something is all free then there must be a catch).

What would you say if there was a single player version of Halo 2(i kno, i kno... its microsoft but, it is just an example). You will say it sucks?, well I wont think so, because the OS community could hack around it and add some "extra value" for the game so people would want to change to Linux.

Re:Long story short....

[halivar]

Eugene! Is that you?

Just kidding.

Mostly. ;)

Re:Long story short....

[kfg]

However, one wouldn't criticize their newly-born child for not being able to run like his years-older brother.

This is true, but I can tell you which one I'd select for the cross country team until the other gets the hang of it, which process just might include a bit of constructive criticism.

KFG

Re:Long story short....

[pyros]

The short answer is that even if nautilus-cd-burner can do the same things many things are just simpler/better in K3b.

The first example that comes to mind is burning a video CD/DVD. I'd imagine laying out all the necessary files and folder structure and then telling nautilus-cd-burner to burn that folder would work. But why bother with all that when you can just give K3b will take all the video files (and recode them for you) and images for chapter thumbnails, menu background, and do all the work for you.

Using music CDs specifically, you have to name the files to enforce your chosen playlist, then burn the folder. Not a horrible inconvenience one that isn't necessary in K3b. The only thing I prefer nautilus-cd-burner for is archiving some random folder to CDR or burning an ISO image to disc (just right-click and select Write to Disc).

Re:Long story short....

[megarich]

I second that motion. In my company we haved mixed results with k3b. In most cases it gets the job done but not always error free. On Suse9.0 man times it changes the sytem time to an hour earlier and also slows down the machine considerably that it becomes counter productive. These are dual processor, 2 gig ram scsi disk drive machines by the way.

I welcome any suggestions outside of patching or updating the program. In the future I'll look further into that but I'm so overwhelmed right now this is a low priority issue for me.

Re:Long story short....

[Anonymous Coward]

These are dual processor, 2 gig ram scsi disk drive machines by the way.

With IDE CDROMs that you haven't enabled DMA for. Good work Mr. Peabody.

Re:Long story short....

[thegoldenear]

And it takes advantage of features your burner may have if say, its a fancy plextor.

so does cdrecord

Re:Long story short....

[berzerke]

...Well, the burner turned on for about 3 seconds and then barfed, leaving me with a coaster. Tried again, same results. Since I was under time pressure I fired up windows and copied it using Nero. No problems at all...

It might be the burner, not the software. I had an LG burner once that would error out (under Linux). However, if I rebooted the machine (something you probably did when switching to Windows), it burned fine for a while. Repeat. After 5 rounds of it not working, then working after a reboot, I transferred it to a Windows machine and saw the same behavior. Therefore, it is likely the drive, not the software or the OS.

As a side note, I replaced the LG burner with a different one when I moved it and haven't had a burning problem since. I've also seen the same behavior with tape drives (on both Linux and Windows). Have to reboot to get then working again.

Re:Long story short....

[FooBarWidget]

Hello? That's a user's giving his opinion. Heck, even the almighty user doesn't give a fuck. That should say a lot.

Re:Long story short....

[Moredhel]

That 5% thing happened to me for a while. It was failing between the lead-in and starting to burn the actual data. I didn't reformat to fix it.

I found it worked OK if:

a) You switched to Track-at-once rather than Disk-at-once, if you could;

b) You put in the blank disk, and didn't start burning until Doze had recognised it, and you closed the window it popped up for it. If it didn't do this, then this was when it would fail at 5% - pop the disk and re-insert til it recognises it;

c) Finally, I upgraded my ascpi (I think it is? I'm typing this on Linux) drivers when I was messing with something else, and from then on I've had no problems.

K3B is better anyway for general burning, but I need Nero to make VCDs from SVCD data, so they play on my parent's Sony DVD player =O{

Re:Long story short....

[2old2rockNroll]

Again, Ahead is a profitting company so I guess they are only testing the ground, and after that they may put out a full featured version at some cost.

The article indicated one had to buy the Windows version to get the Linux version. If they are just testing the water with a crippled version, it should be free. They won't get very far by charging for it.

Re:Long story short....

[Blakey Rat]

Why such flaming? Linux users should be happy that proprietary software developers are porting their products to Linux. Moreso than before.

Re:Long story short....

[llefler]

You're simply deluded. There have always been linux tools that didn't work. Ask anyone who has struggled with MythTV through it's evolution. To assume that everything linux programmers create is perfect is burying your head in the sand.

Your generalizations about programmers are insulting as well. I don't consider myself a linux programmer, but I have looked at a great deal of code for linux apps in the last 10 years. There is plenty of bad programming going on there as well. Or has a linux app never had a buffer overflow? Programmers are: good/bad, talented/hacks, regardless of the platform they use.

If programmers have so much pride in their work, why don't they bother to write documentation so someone can actually use it? Linux documentation is definately hit and miss.

Re:Long story short....

[dahlek]

They may both use the same API, but k3b does this indirectly - it uses cdrecord and cdrdao for CD operations at least - it doesn't speak directly to the API - at least not the last time I looked into it.

I just RTFA, it seems clear that Nero has a way to go in Linux, however, if it speaks directly to the API, that is, runs without calling upon cdrdao and cdrecord, then it has the possibility of surpassing k3b in the future, since there are a few things that these tools cannot currently do - writing Karoke CDs or writing an mp3 on the fly in DAO mode, for example.

Further, Nero could very well use transcode and the other movie-tools that k3b uses. I hope this happens - I want the competition of alternatives to cdrecord and cdrdao - they are wonderful tools, don't get me wrong, but they are incomplete. I can't really speak about the dvd tools, I've hardly used them.

Re:Long story short....

[aichpvee]

Good points, but I seriously doubt that the primary target for NeroLinux is Linux users or at least not long-time Linux users. Because those of us who have been using it for a while have most likely found some combination of CD/DVD burning software that we like and have forgotten all about the Windows counterparts.

Re:Long story short....

[shadow303]

FYI, the non-root issue seems to be resolved. I have an LFS based system with the latest stable versions of cdrecord, k3b, and kernel 2.6.11. I am able to burn cds with k3b as a non-root user.

Re:Long story short....

[swillden]

Why such flaming?

What flaming? I just responded to a post that stated a bunch of unsupported (and probably unsupportable) claims as fact.

Linux users should be happy that proprietary software developers are porting their products to Linux.

Agreed. That doesn't, however, mean we're likely to pay money for a commercial product that is inferior to the free (and Free) software we already have. Some will, just to support the developer on principle, but that sort of token support won't ever make a business case. It might even convince the developer that their product actually did fill a need but that there's just no market for Linux software, which will be a bad thing.

Re:Long story short....

[Kent Recal]

why don't they bother to write documentation so someone can actually use it?

First you complain about "insulting generalizations" and then you come up with your own which is just as false...

Re:Long story short....

[SquadBoy]

So one follows the Unix Philosophy and the other doesn't. I know which I would rather use.

Re:Long story short....

[dahlek]

I take it you mean the notion of small single-purpose pieces which can be assembled like LEGO blocks to make larger programs, right?

I agree with this as well. My point is, that between cdrecord and cdrdao, there are is some missing functionality. Here we would have a third possible low-level way to close the gap. My hope is that this will encourage the open source projects to close the gap.

Another way to look at this is to say that we can have the most wonderful front-ends (k3b for example) limited by their back-end software. Here for the first time in a long while, is something more than just another front-end. Granted, I would prefer a separation of a front-end and a back-end for Nero...

My argument, in other words, is not to say that I dislike the fact that many front-ends use transcode as a back-end for video processing, but that I'm grateful to also have mencoder as a possible back-end. Choice is good.

Re:Long story short....

[Tassach]

Therefore, it is likely the drive, not the software or the OS.

Nice theory, but probably not the case here, considering that I powered it on right before I booted into linux, then rebooted to windows. I'm pretty confidant it's not a hardware problem.

Re:Long story short....

[megarich]

It's setup through scsi-emulation and even if that were the case, doesn't solve the other bugs like changing the system clock.... any other NON-SARCASTIC ideas?

Re:Long story short....

[andreyw]

I have an ATAPI Samsung CDRW drive that recently started failing while performing OPC. The drive itself just zombifies and makes weird mechanical noises which don't go away when you remove the disk. At that point it doesn't detect media. However, turning the power off to it and back on brings it back to life and makes it useful.

Re:Long story short....

[Tassach]

Well, I finally figured it out -- even though the command line worker programs (/usr/bin/cdrecord and /usr/bin/cdrdao) are install suid root, for some reason k3b still barfs unless it is run as root. I find this odd considering that k3b is just supposed to be a front-end for the command line tools.

What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another submission with no information. Keep up the good work.

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[advocate_one]

Another submission with no information. Keep up the good work.

You must be new around here... if you don't know what K3b is then you can't be a true geek...

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[akzeac]

There are some of us happy enough with mkisofs and cdrecord :]

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[advocate_one]

There are some of us happy enough with mkisofs and cdrecord :]

Ahhh... geek geeks...

Re:What is K3b? What is NeroLinux?

[gothfox]

Bah! What kind of geek uses these fancy-shmancy KDE cd burning tools.

mkisofs and cdrecord/growisofs for life!

Before the site gets burned...too late

[Anonymous Coward]

NeroLinux vs K3b
Posted by Gsurface on 15 Mar 2005 - 18:53 Introduction

This week Ahead Nero introduced a Linux version of their popular CD burning application dubbed NeroLinux. NeroLinux promises to bring the great features found in the Windows version to the Linux domain. Though the Windows version of Nero is loved by many, how well does NeroLinux stack up against already existing CD Burning applications such as K3b? K3b's user interface is neat and full of eye candy, while Nero leans towards a more standard look; leaving aside looks for functionality. Though NeroLinux is "free" of cost, users still need to purchase version of Nero 6 for Windows to download NeroLinux. NeroLinux is provided as RPM or Debian package where as K3b is completely free and provides multiple Linux installation packages.

The test machine used for this review consists of the following:
Fedora Core 3
Abit Guru AV8 Chipset
AMD Athlon64 3500
1GB DDR 3200 RAM
Sony CD-RW Drive
Pioneer DVD-RW


Look and Feel

Look and Feel
No doubt about it, K3b offers a more pleasing look by using more eye candy than NeroLinux. Navigating into the preferences of each application, we can see how K3b's user interface is much cleaner and easier to navigate. The options in K3b are aligned as icons on the left hand side of the window, making each task recognizable. NeroLinux preferences window shows each section as tabs on the upper side. Though NeroLinux's GUI is simple, the preferences are still easy to navigate.

K3b Preferences and NeroLinux Preferences

K3b's main window presents the user with multiple CD burning scenarios to choose from including Audio CD Project, Data CD Project, DVD Data Project and CD Copying; getting straight to the point by presenting to the user its abilities. NeroLinux however, does not present the user with any type of wizard or options as far as what the user wishes to do. The user is simply presented with the main window to drag and drop files. The Windows version of Nero presents the user with a window of options as to what the user wishes to do: burn a data CD, music CD and so on. Why NeroLinux was not giving this same capability as the Windows version may have been because this is just the first release of NeroLinux. The fact that K3b presents the user with the options noted earlier makes it much easier to navigate than NeroLinux.

K3b Main Window, NeroLinux Main Window and Nero 6 Main Window


Features

Features
Both K3b and NeroLinux are able to handle both CD-R media and DVD media. K3b goes beyond your regular CD Burning suite by bundling a video encoding feature. K3b lets you rip a DVD movie and convert it into an AVI file for burning on regular CD-R media. NeroLinux does not include any type of video encoding feature. Under the burning properties section of K3b, the typical options are found such as the ability to simulate a recording session, write on the fly, create an image of the compilation only, and the ability to verify the written data; which most of the times is recommended. K3b also allows for multisessions, which means you can keep adding files to the same CD at a later time. NeroLinux's burning option also features the ability to simulate a recording session as well as verifying the written data on the disc. Other options such as creating a bootable disc and the option to finalize a disc are available on NeroLinux.

K3b and NeroLinux Burning Options

Both NeroLinux and K3b allow for burning an image of a CD, however, K3b's user interface is much neater and presents the user with more useful options than NeroLinux. K3b options allow for burning multiple copies of the image, setting the speed at which to burn the image and the ability to verify the written data. Though NeroLinux allows for these settings also, they are not presented to the user within the same window such as K3b.

Re:Before the site gets burned...too late

[Phleg]

Damn, I never thought I'd life to see the day where somebody mentions that a KDE app's user interface "is much cleaner and easier to navigate".

Too Late

[maizena]

If Ahead had released NeroLinux 2 or 3 years ago, there would have been a maket for it. At that time there were no easy to use GUI CD/DVD burner apps for linux. Today K3b has the user base that would care for a "nero for linux".

Re:Too Late

[flajann]

A day late, a dollar short. K3b rocks. They should've focused their efforts on new functionality.

On the other hand, we don't want to discouarge developers from porting their apps to Linux. If anything, we should be encouarging them all the more. Having "too many" apps on Linux would be a Good Thing.

Yet another search portal

Re:Too Late

[Taladar]

K3b should focus on getting rid of KDE dependencies and they would have almost all CD-burning Linux Users as Userbase. As it is I am not installing KDE for a single program.

Re:Too Late

[SirTalon42]

K3b is a KDE program. If you can't handle installing KDE libs and base, then find another program.

Re:Too Late

[jedidiah]

4 years ago, NeroLinux would still have been a day late and a dollar short. K3b is just the latest in a long line of CD burning GUI's for Unix.

Re:Too Late

[Taladar]

I could install kde and in fact had it installed until I discovered K3b was the only KDE program I was using and KDE used more memory and diskspace (and update time) than I wanted to commit to a single program's dependencies.

Re:Too Late

[cayenne8]

"K3b should focus on getting rid of KDE dependencies and they would have almost all CD-burning Linux Users as Userbase. As it is I am not installing KDE for a single program."

I guess I'm a little confused by this opinion...and I've seen it in other posts. I've run both Gnome, and KDE....right now, primarily using KDE...but, not that picky either way.

Even when I had Gnome...I had KDE libraries...so I could run what I wanted to. I have KDE now...but, load what I need to do run Gnome things.

My question is...what is the big deal of using one's libraries if using the other desktop? I mean, harddrive space these days is DIRT cheap...so, its not like you've got to worry about putting too much on your harddrive...

So, why such a vehemet (sp?) objection to using K3B just because it requires some KDE libraries?

When I see an application I want to run in Linux...I don't give a damn about what it takes to run it...I just want to run the application.

Re:Too Late

[anagama]

K3B may not be the first burning GUI, but it is the best of them. I personally had an easier time using mkisofs and cdrecord than xcdroast or some other one I think I tried. I didn't give up the CLI till k3b and in fact, the whole burning GUI thing had burned me enough in the past, that I came late to using k3b and only after overcoming much sceptism that it would actually be good. I was so wrong - k3b is a snap.

Re:Too Late

[novakreo]

I could install kde and in fact had it installed until I discovered K3b was the only KDE program I was using and KDE used more memory and diskspace (and update time) than I wanted to commit to a single program's dependencies.

You've already been told twice that it only needs kdelibs and kdebase, why do you keep trolling that you need all of KDE just for K3B?

If you don't like KDE, just say so and don't use it, but there's no need to spread misinformation about it.

Re:NeroLinux ?

[DarkMantle]

NeroLinux is made by Ahead Software (aka makers of Nero).

According to the /. post Nero is made by Nero. And we know the editors are always right. ;-)

BTW: It bugged me for a while that they don't even know who made the software.

K3b on Windows?

[QuantumG]

Wow, there's almost a good suggestion in that biased review. He wonders why K3b hasn't been ported to Windows. Presumably it is because writing to a CD/DVD on Windows is completely different to Linux. Or simply because the developers of K3b don't care about Windows.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Jonny_eh]

I doubt the reason is because of CD burning in windows. K3b is merely a frontend for the command line tools cdrecord and cdrdao, and both have been ported to Windows.

It's probably not on windows for the same reason that hardly any other KDE/QT apps are on windows. And that reason escapes me, I always assumed it's was a Trolltech QT licensing issue (which shouldn't be a problem anymore). Why is it that Gaim is available in windows but K3b is not? Why is openoffice available, but not koffice? I think this hurts the KDE apps quite a bit. GTK is getting much more coverage in windows.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[dsginter]

Or simply because the developers of K3b don't care about Windows.

If they care about Linux, then they will work to get a standard set of cross-platform apps. In this respect, users can move to these apps under Windows and then simply switch the OS when they are comfortable with them.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[cozziewozzie]

There is no GPL version of Qt for windows, that's why many things don't get ported.

This will change with the new Qt 4.0 and KDE 4.0 which is based on it. Qt4 will come with a full GPL version for windows.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[mysticwhiskey]

I'll definately join. Were do I sine up?

Re:K3b on Windows?

[ceeam]

I'll definately join. Were do I sine up?

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

From 0 to pi/2. Then you sine down, until 3*pi/2.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gaim doesn't use QT it uses gtk. I belive open office is the same.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, Psi, the famous Jabber client, is available for Windows and it's a Qt application.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Ford Prefect]

If you find out let me know too. I would cosine. ;)

At which point, the discussion goes off on a tangent...

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh please.. enough with that BS

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

At which point, the discussion goes off on a tangent...

At least we're still talking about software on x86. Arch-tangents can get pretty messy.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

wrong, there is gpl version of qt-3.3 for windows, but its not developed by trolltech....
check out http://kde-cygwin.sourceforge.net/qt3-win32/

Re:K3b on Windows?

[BRSloth]

Some KDE developers said (IIRC) that porting applications to Windows actually hurts open source operating systems. So, they (at least, the few that mentioned it) don't want to port their applications to non-free systems.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[TheoMurpse]

Allow me to assist you by continuing on to a cotangent.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

And how does it hurt KDE apps when we have an example under discussion where the KDE app is arguably the best?

Derek

Re:K3b on Windows?

[SirTalon42]

Thats still under development, but soon will be pointless. TrollTech with QT 4.0 is going to release a GPLed version for Windows.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[quanticle]

Let me bring the discussion back on topic be following a secant, then.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[mini me]

There is no GPL version of Qt for windows, that's why many things don't get ported.

Yes there is.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[TheoMurpse]

Not until someone creates another subthread so then you can follow the cosecant as well.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[cozziewozzie]

Yes, you are completely right, but most people don't want to install CygWin and XFree to burn CDs or run regular software. A fully native Win version of Qt is a big step in the right direction, and it's coming with Qt 4.0, which is in testing stages right now (Beta, I think)

Re:K3b on Windows?

[mini me]

That link is to a fully native GPLed Qt3. The hostname is a little misleading, but there are more than one project housed under it.

The QT3/Windows Free Edition is a native win32 port of the gpled qt/x11 sources. It use native win32 api and does not require cygwin.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[strider44]

QT has been GPLed on Windows. It happened a few weeks/a month ago. Don't have the URL but it was slashdotted...

Oh right, google, here it is.

Re:K3b on Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

QT 4!

Re:K3b on Windows?

[strider44]

you're right. I should have read the press release I linked to!

Feel free to mod my grandparent post down - the next version of QT will be open source, but it currently isn't.

Switching Platforms

[N8F8]

I would surmise the purpose of NeroLinux is to give an alternative to platform switchers so they can use somthing similar to their Windows product. It would a be a prudent move for Nero to keep their base for the cost of doing the parallel development. A better comparison would be between the Windows version and the Linux version from a user's standpoint.

Re:Switching Platforms

[Anonymous Coward]

You will have relearn anyway. The only thing common between Nero and NeroLinux is the brand. They are different applications from users POV.

So while you are relearning, why not use better tool?

Re:Switching Platforms

[Anonymous Coward]

So you openly admit to pirating software, or do you buy a license each time you install it?

Re:Switching Platforms

[Anonymous Coward]

Reader: Please note that on slashdot "bashed" translates into normal English as "fairly critising something I like and recommending something I don't"

Re:Switching Platforms

[Anonymous Coward]

I would surmise that the purpose of NeroLinux is to sell to drive vendors. When the vendor pays to include the OEM version of Nero, they can pay a little bit more to include the Linux version as well. Then they have another bullet point in their compatibility list, and can include a penguin logo on the back of the box.

Re:NeroLinux ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nero is made by Nero. Ahead Software changed it's name to reflect the name of their product at the beginning of 2005.

Thanks

[nnnneedles]

I hereby declare that all online reviews must be written like that.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:NeroLinux ?

[mirko]

I also and especially missed it because ti wasn't mentioned in the summary & because the story got Slashdotted before I could post...
But thanks to your answer, I now know what it is and I am glad to see commercial companies porting their products to other platforms.

EROLinux?

[Anonymous Coward]

w00t? EROLinux? now that's burning

Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[episodic]

1st - this isn't about the article submitted to Slashdot. This is more a response to individual comments that I've seen posted here so far and across the internet: As I've used open source products, I keep seeing the same old arguments. One of those arguments is that we need commercial developers for Linux. Lo and behold when a commercial developer ante's up and makes product for Linux - they are beat up for their decision. Suddenly we hear about the commercial software: 1. That's fine but it isn't open sourced. 2. Bahhh we have an opensource equivalent already. 3. It doesn't work on my weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux. I'm sure there are other reasons, but it is early. Why can't we be positive? Why can't we embrace Ahead for their efforts and simply say - Good Job on your (read) 1st version? I'm sure if they didn't get bad press and beat up over their decision, there might be 'future' versions. Also, for all you 'we need to convert the windows world' - having NERO available is like a warm familiar blanket to many windows users. Don't worry ppl - other developers read slashdot - and they are probably thinking - why even bother to develop for the platform when they are likely to get negative press for their effort. Remember, it's not about comparison to existing free as beer linux apps - this is a commercial prodcut that will live or die on it's own merits.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

So what you are saying is we should all rush out and buy commercial Linux applications that are not as good as free open source applications? That they should be excempt from critism because they gave it a go? Do me a favour! If it is to live and die by it's own merits then surely competing with the open source alternatives and coping with critism is part of that.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree.

I for one think it's great that Ahead sees Linux as a viable platform to develop for.

That in and of itself speaks volumes.

If more companies take this route, then soon, the old, "but Linux doesn't use the same applications" argument will be dead.

I was previously very hopeful about LinDVD (the Linux version of WinDVD), but that never seemed to go anywhere.

I'm definitely happy to see Linux desktop apps getting more mainstream. I hope the trend continues.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[TheCoroner]

There are several issues here that you voice strong opinions about but I don't see any convincing arguments to support them other than the idea that; Windows user will switch to Linux if enough of their proprietary applications are available on that platform.

All things being equal (or nearly so), the open source version wins. I think the open source community raises the bar for all application software development, in fact I strongly feel that they'll eventually completely overshadow that particular business model.

Don't you think commercial application developers should be given a realistic assessment of their product?

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[TheViewFromTheGround]

I think you have a valid point here that Slashdotters are beating up on Ahead. However, it's useful that some of the comments, as well as the review, are critiques. These will help Ahead make NeroLinux better. Secondly, this is a really bad comparision because K3B is so good. Thirdly, free software and commerical software should be compared: why is NeroLinux inferior at this point to K3b? Why does Photoshop continue to blow the GIMP out of the water for most non-trivial graphics design work? These comparisons allow thoughtful people to create a cohesive philosophy of free software and proprietary software. Under what circumstances is the one appropriate and the other not? What structural features of the open source development model encourage successful software in which market segments and why?

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[bhirsch]

I agree with that, except that thankfully companies like Ahead that take the plunge probably don't care too much what malcontent elitists think. People trashing their product on /. is probably of little or no consequence to them.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[Grishnakh]

We shouldn't "embrace Ahead for their efforts" because their product is sub-par, and not Free. What compelling reason is there for any Linux user to fork their money over to Ahead for a sub-par product when K3b is so much better, and costs nothing?

When Linux users complain about commercial developers not supporting Linux, they aren't complaining about a lack of applications like Nero, where there's already Free and superior equivalents available. They want Linux versions of applications which have no Free equivalent, have a sub-par equivalent, or in fact may never have one at all.

Many people (rightly or wrongly) complain about the lack of Photoshop on Linux, because GIMP isn't clearly better. Now is the time for Adobe to make a Linux version of Photoshop; if they wait around and GIMP improves a lot, they'll miss their window of opportunity to dominate the market on Linux.

More importantly, Linux is missing a lot of specialized software, such as AutoCAD, or various other applications which are industry-specific and people outside the industry will not have heard of. Companies that would like to move to Linux desktops are frequently bound to Windows by applications such as these.

It's really simple. When people complain about a lack of applications on Linux, they're really complaining about specific applications which they absolutely need which are only available on Windows, and are preventing them from moving to Linux. This doesn't mean they want Linux versions of every dinky Windows program out there. If you're a commercial software developer, you should look closely at the Linux market before making a Linux version of your software. If there's Free software on Linux which is already better than your sorry application, then don't bother. You might want to look for a new market too, because sooner or later Microsoft is going to build that functionality into Windows, rendering you obsolete. If, however, there is no Free equivalent, because your market is just too narrow, then by all means port your application to Linux. You'll probably get a lot of buyers who are now able to ditch Windows.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[rbochan]

One of those arguments is that we need commercial developers for Linux. Lo and behold when a commercial developer ante's up and makes product for Linux - they are beat up for their decision.

Perhaps you're reading into this wrong, or missing a few points.

1. That's fine but it isn't open sourced.

You know what? That sometimes mean a awful lot, to an awful lot of people.

2. Bahhh we have an opensource equivalent already.

That's a HUGE point though.
It's not like there was some incredible innovation done in this case. It's not like it's a new product, or something that's missing, something like Photoshop. It's a frikken cd burning program, something which there are literally dozens and dozens of - and superb ones at that - already.

3. It doesn't work on my weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux.

Since when is a Fedora/Redhat platform a "weird (read low marketshare) version of Linux"?

Why can't we be positive? Why can't we embrace Ahead for their efforts and simply say - Good Job on your (read) 1st version?

We can, but unfortunately, they aren't the first (they aren't even the first to do a cd burning utility) for Linux. We've seen just how 'less than satisfactory' other things have turned out before... for whatever reason.
Skepticism is only natural, and healthy, in a case like this.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[DavidTC]

There isn't a single post on this page, at least above you, complaining that NeroLinux isn't open source. (Althougha few suggest it might be better coded if it was open source.)

However, there are plenty of posts complaining that it isn't needed, because we already have a perfectly good CD burning application.

Saying 'I don't really see the market for this, I already can burn CDs fine' isn't exactly the same as proclaiming 'This Software is Not Free, and Thus Is Evil'.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[Mishura]

I completely favor the idea of commercial software on Linux--especially games.

Now that I got that out-of-the-way, let me go on and say that, in order for any commercial application as trivial as CD/DVD burning to compete with what we already have, it needs to be beyond kick-ass. I mean, it has to beat the crap out of the F/OSS alternative.

Windows switchers may use this program, sure. Judging by how they want you to "pay" for it, it seems that they are giving this software away if you buy the windows version. I see this targeted to dual-booters who either already own Nero or planning on buying it. And that, is actually a good idea.

Side by side, K3b most likely (I haven't tried nerolinux yet) owns. Because of that, Nero cannot compete with that financially. So they sell the Windows version, and offer a Linux-port to those who dual-boot or have Linux and Windows boxen for free.

For the rest of us, this isn't too much to get excited about. Keep using K3b until NeroLinux starts doing things cdrecord/cddao/k3b cannot do. Or better yet, use what you feel comfortable with, I don't care. For me, I will still continue to use K3b.

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[shutdown -p now]

What compelling reason is there for any Linux user to fork their money over to Ahead for a sub-par product when K3b is so much better, and costs nothing?

Well, one part of the OSS mantra always was "being able to choose from multiple alternatives is good", wasn't it?

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[Grishnakh]

Choice is great, but you have to be realistic. As an OSS user, it's great that I have a choice between multiple CD burning programs: K3b, Xcdroast, whatever Gnome uses, and of course the command-line cdrdao and cdrecord. I use K3b personally, but if I really wanted something different, there's other things I could try out which would only cost me time for downloading.

Nero isn't much of a choice here, since I have to buy it in order to try it. If I were really desperate for a good CD burning application, then this might be viable, especially if user reviews looked good. However, not many people are desperate for such a thing, because we already have great applications for free. This isn't like GIMP vs. Photoshop, where a lot of people are unhappy with the OSS alternative and would willingly shell out for the market leader.

Basically, this is a solution in search of a problem.

What's next? A version of WinAMP for Linux? When we already have more media players than we can count, some of which are quite excellent (XMMS, AmaroK)?

Re:Don't beat up on Ahead. . .

[shutdown -p now]

Nero isn't much of a choice here, since I have to buy it in order to try it.

It might be a problem for you. Many Windows users, however (and they are the majority, even among Linux newcomers), have a Nero license. For them, it's just a free download. And they might want to use Nero over K3b if only for familiar icons; and don't even get me started on xcdroast, it's UI is far worse than even that of Nero.

mod parent up..

[Henk Poley]

It is available now.

NeroLINUX

[Silwenae]

I can't complain about NeroLINUX - it worked for me just fine. Because of my job, I have a couple copies of Nero for Windows, so it was easy for me to download the .deb and pop a key in.

I'm running Ubuntu - as a Gnome only user, I'd rather install Nero than K3B and not have to worry about all the KDE libraries, especially as they're unsupported in Ubuntu. Yes, I know running Ubuntu is my personal choice, as is running only Gnome.

But you know what? Nero worked, and it worked just fine. I'm either burning audio CDs or ISOs of linux distributions, and it does the job. Most Gnome CD burning apps are still in development (don't get me going on XCDRoast) and Coaster is still in active development. I may be lucky that I had a couple Nero keys laying around, but I'm not going to be disappointed by any commerical company releasing an application for linux if it helps linux as a whole - and I think Nero helps. Sure, it's GTK1 and it's kind of ugly (GTK 2 please!) and it's not HIG compliant, but it IS their first relase version for Linux, and they were kind enough to release RPMs AND debs - usually you only see RPMs from a commerical vendor it seems.

Re:NeroLINUX

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the article was a little high on attitude and low on facts. I'm glad there is a Doom 3 linux executable even if I have to "buy the Windows version". Nero will apparently do a DVD project but I would have liked to know whether it installs programs for DVD-R and DVD+R or what. Currently, as a Gnome person, I'm using X-CDRoast for CDs and doing DVD+R command line with growisofs. That could be improved.

Re:NeroLINUX

[BenjyD]

GNOMEbaker and Graveman look pretty good GNOME cd-burning applications. I've only used them for simple stuff so far, though.

Re:NeroLINUX

[advocate_one]

Currently, as a Gnome person, I'm using X-CDRoast for CDs and doing DVD+R command line with growisofs. That could be improved.

Or you could swallow your pride and install K3b and the necessary KDE libs... you do not have to have the KDE desktop installed to use K3b... I know, I have Ubuntu installed and use K3b for burning CDs.

Re:NeroLINUX

[Anonymous Coward]

You could try GnomeBaker.

http://gnomebaker.sourceforge.net/

Re:NeroLINUX

[StarTux]

Exactly, no one has even applauded Nero for releasing this application to Linux, and I am sure they will welcome constructive criticism so that they can improve, if they are interested in doing so

An interesting question, why did they release it to the Linux market?

Go K3B!!

[filesiteguy]

I love this quote

Hands down, K3b is just a more powerful CD burning application than NeroLinux. A Linux player who is currently interested in using NeroLinux should consider K3b instead, and for those wise ones which already house K3b, good call, stay where you are.

One of the "killer apps" I find on Linux (KDE) is the K3B application. I very much like it for DVD/CD burning over the lowly Roxio and Nero apps I have on Windows.

I'm to the point of frustration at work where I have to downgrade to WinXP and use something less than K3b.

Linux program comparisons...

[Team_Peppy]

Progress is beautiful! We are evolving from Linux distro comparisons to Linux program comparisons. The evolution of Linux is simply beautiful!! Keep up the good work.

only reason to ...

[Sfing_ter]

the only reason to use Nero over K3b would have been nero's vision express product for creating vcd/dvds in a very easy manner, this not being included does not make me want the nero product.

cdrecord ...

[Anonymous Coward]

my command line roasts a CD every time

Not everyone wants KDE

[DeBaas]

Not bashing KDE here, but I don't run KDE on every machine. On PC's without KDE I now use xcdroast, which ain't to great IMHO.

Still, I don't see myself buying Nero, but as it is often included with DVD/CD writers, I would like it if they also included a linux version

NeroLinux: PI/PO Reporting?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does NeroLinux support PI/PO error detection?

If so, this could be an advantage over K3B. There's no free software that detects PI/PO errors.

PI/PO refer to when erasure codes need to recover from scratches etc. and also when the erasure codes are not enough.

Simply reading/MD5ing a DVD is not enough. PI/PO readings will tell you how long you can expect that disk to last. Periodic checking of the disks will tell you when you should reburn/move to different media.

Re:NeroLinux: PI/PO Reporting?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it does not.

However, I am working on this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/pxscan/
These are specific to Plextor hardware, but since the project is Free, we would be glad to see any developer helping.

BTW, readcd can detect C2 errors (but not C1).

Re:NeroLinux: PI/PO Reporting?

[Sark666]

This stuff sounds really interesting. I've never heard of this myself before. Any links explaining how this works?

Karma Whoring for Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Coral Link

Not a very objective review?

[packman]

I read the article, and really got the impression that the author was a frequent K3B user, and didn't give Nero a chance. On windows, I always liked the Nero interface, simple, clean, not too much bullshit (or what the author calls "eyecandy"). It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support, it should support USB writers without too much hassle (don't know what the status is on that-one with CDRecord etc). That has not been covered at all, and basicly the main bad thing about NeroLinux according to the author is that he likes the K3B interface more...

Also nero's licencing may be strange, but don't forget that a lot of CDwriters bundle Nero 6 with em. Most people using Nero in windows got it together with their writer. I myself have 3 or 4 official Nero cd's. It's nice that they also want to deliver a linux version in such scenario. Also another big point there is, you have to register, so they can very well track how many users are actually interested, it's their first time that they make a linux version, if they have enough interest, they probably will continue the development and start supporting it officially.

I do like K3B simply because it works, and the whole family can work with it, it's the perfect example for the dummy-user application in Linux, and it simply works, but I remember the times where I still prefered to use cdrecord on commanline than starting K3B, and it had to come a long way... Right now - K3B is high quality software, but there were times where the picture was different.

This is Ahead's first attempt to release linux software, and no instability was encountered. They should be encouraged, it took balls to do this - but reviews like this won't encourage or convince other software firms to write software for linux. Yes there is a lot of "free" software, but a lot of companies can't go without support or reliable and supported windows interoperability - preferably the same software running on Windows & Linux, so they don't have to train their personell to use new and different software.

Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux, like project management software, decent cross-platform agenda sharing. PLEASE don't mention Sunbird, it sucks - we tried it - and lost all agenda's doing so, suddenly all files on webdav were truncated to 0-byte size, after which sunbird freaked out and could not recover. Also it's way to complicated to setup, you need to do extensive configuration in apache, webdav and the client side (which is the worst thing). Sure - one day it will be better, but as long as you don't have these things, no company will completely switch over to linux. Yes there are other packages doing this kind of stuff in linux, but the support in windows is or unexisting or extremely limited. This is a giant step forward for Ahead, way to go I say!

Re:Not a very objective review?

[gallir]

> It seems the linux version is more limited, but it's a good start, it supports things K3B (cdrecord etc) don't support, like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support

FUD, of course it works without SCSI emulation. I would say right now is already a requirement.

> Also nero's licencing may be strange,

Comparing to k3b, of course, the last is free software.

> Also a lot of software is almost not available for linux

Off-topic in the Nero/k3b on GNU/Linux issue. You cannot have k3b in Windows, neither kd3, or amarok, lot of software. So, I don't understant you point.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[FreeUser]

like CDwriting without scsi-emulation support

I haven't used scsi emulation support to burn CDs (or DVDs) in donkey's years. In fact, I don't even compile scsi emulatin into the kernel or as a modules, because I don't what it ever changing my cd-rom devices to scsi devices. CDRecord on Linux has been able to talk to ATA CD burners natively for quite some time.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[ookaze]

You are the biased one.
K3B supports CD writing without scsi-emulation support (I should know, that is what I use since months), and support your USB writers just fine : the kernel is doing all the stuff, stop spreading such BS. K3B is easier to beginners, and even to me (that is facts I witnessed, none of my Linux users burning happily with K3B could handle Nero without a detailed to-do list on paper).

You have to register the NeroLinux with a WINDOWS version key, there is no way for them to know for which platform the key is, so what you say does not hold.

Yes we want commercial software for Linux. No we do not want BS software. If they come when it is too late, that is NOT our fault, and we should not applaud, we should not lie and say it is better than what we have when it is not. At least, they should come with a fully native solution, not one giving us less functionality than on Windows, and requiring a key for the Windows product.

Project management could have a lot of improvement on Linux, so yes, someone could do sth. How much are there on Windows anyway, apart from MS Project ?
There is NO cross-platform agenda sharing on Windows (except Novell perhaps), as if there was, then there would be one for Linux.

Well, to sum up : K3B works now, integrates perfectly on Linux desktops, installs easily, is easier to use, is more usable, do not need to buy any key of any windows version of anything, does all burning tasks, it just works.
I do not see anything biased in all that, these are facts, NeroLinux does not compete today, we will see later.
Several people have given the goal of NeroLinux : I understand it is not for actual users of Linux, but for company switching to Linux desktops.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[packman]

Last time I checked I still required SCSI-emulation in my kernel to get K3B or CDRecord working. There is the "dev=ATAPI:x,y,z" option, but I never got that working correctly.

And yes K3B is free, I never said it wasn't, Nero IS and will stay commercial software, and a lot of /.'ers think commercial soft is evil, I don't. It has a purpose, a market - whatever. If it's worth buying, and there's no equivalent free software, I'll buy it, like Opera i.e. (dont get me started on "why"). I won't buy NeroLinux - but I'll encourage the development, maybe some day it implements new popular features that K3B doesn't have, and competition in software is still a good thing...

> Off-topic in the Nero/k3b on GNU/Linux issue. You cannot have k3b in Windows, neither kd3, or amarok, lot of software. So, I don't understant you point.

The point is - usually linux users don't switch to windows, but windows users more and more start to switch to linux, and sometimes they miss their windows programs, or want a familiar interface. A lot of alternatives are available, but not always as good as their windows competitor. K3B here is an exception, but there aren't that much linux packages that clearly outclass their windows-equivalents - and that's the sad truth.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[aav]

> CDwriting without scsi-emulation support

Actually that doesn't have anything to do with Nero. It's a feature of the 2.6 kernel, thus it's available with k3b as well.

>Right now - K3B is high quality software, but there were times where the picture was different

Your point ? Who cares how k3b was two years ago ? I would suspect that distributions would prefer newer packages, so odds are that new users wouldn't care about how early versions of k3b worked. Coincidentally, I was in the same situation: I used the command line tools because I didn't like k3b. For about one year now, I've given up on that because k3b works much better and it saves me time.

I'm not against encouraging Ahead for their effort. It is a clever move, precisely for the reason you mentioned: their software comes with most writers. Right now it doesn't really matter when users wipe the disk and install Windows, because they already paid for software they won't use. But in a not very distant future it might be more important. Disk manufacturers might choose to include Linux software in their packages, and I can see why Ahead would want to meet this need. Otherwise, manufacturers would easily switch to some other software and Ahead would be the one at loss.

So, as far as I can tell, Ahead are using the current Linux user base to test their software in what concerns functionality, bugs, etc.

If what I said was true, then Ahead is making a logical step towards maintaining its market share, possibly expanding it. Intelligent and (pre)visionary decisions are commendable, of course, especially considering they are so rare in today's market.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[Anonymous Coward]

try using the 2.6 kernel. scsi emulation for cdwriting is deprecated.

Re:Not a very objective review?

[GreyWolf3000]

On 2.6, I just use 'cdrecord -dev=/dev/hdc'

Re:Not a very objective review?

[boringgit]

I agree entirely.

Nice to see Ahead making an effort to move to Linux although they will have to consider their pricing if they are going to make a real impact.

I've written a few reviews and I always know which product is going to win in the first few minutes of testing. Thing is you always attempt to provide a balanced view if you want people to take your conclusion seriously.

Hey - K3B is great and it is free - But for somebody who has already paid for Win Nero and is now making their first move to Linux, it's nice to have as many familiar apps as you can. How many of us really need Crossover? (I don't - but I am comfortable with M$ Office 2000 - Open Office takes a bit more thought....)

Re:NeroLinux vs K3B

[sygin]

The only problem I have with K3B is that it can't copy multi-track CD's. (eg. SVCD disk) This was the case around 3 months ago - has it changed?

It had to be said

[Danathar]

I for one welcome our new overlord CD/DVD rom burning masters...

Are you a Nero Developer or something?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because your certainly sound like it.

"Neros advantage is that it works, period. "

Says who? You? It just came out so the jury is definitely out on whether it "just works". Or are you talking about the windows version? Because the linux version is missing much of the windows version functionality. So no, nobody can say it just works quite yet. btw, fancy features? like what? Burn proof? Do you have a list of what Nero can do vs what k3b can't? Because right now that list is title decidedly in k3b's favor.

And while K3b has problems it works for many many users and is currently more full featured than Nerolinux and more imporatnly is Free.

Personally I'm Thrilled with a capital T that Nero ported their app to linux. I think that's awesome. The more desktop apps that are ported to linux the better, free or not.

I'll stick with K3B

[ajs318]

NeroLinux is no good to me, I'm afraid. Not only is my new PC 64-bit, but I have made a conscious decision to run only OSI-certified software on it. Think of it as a kind of software analogue of vegetarianism, without the mortality-denial.

So I'm sticking with K3B. It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform. If there's any guessing to be done, K3B does it rather than leaving you to do it. And at the end of the burn, it even shows you what commands you could have typed in an XTerm to accomplish the same effect {because of course that's what it's been doing anyway}. I think this is a great way to re-introduce the command line. GCombust, which I used to use on my old Mandrake 8.2 box, did pretty much the same thing, but used GTK1.2.

As for why there is no Win3B ..... that's anybody's guess. Though an ejectable LiveCD with Linux and K3B probably would suffice {if someone's got a DVD-writer, the chances are good that they will have enough RAM for this to work. Can Linux mount a Windows swap partition?} One day, I've promised myself, I'll get into making bootdisks ..... I've already done a Gentoo Stage One install, there's not much else that can be any harder! Maybe a K3B liveCD would be a good first project.

Re:I'll stick with K3B

[Anonymous Coward]

It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform.

Funny, k3b sure looks a whole lot like an old version of Easy CD Creator for Windows. Yet another case of OSS copying the look and feel of a Windows or Mac OS X application.

Re:I'll stick with K3B

[Anonymous Coward]

It's quite simply the most user-friendly piece of software ever written for any platform.

No way! I'm pretty sure xeyes is tops.

Let's not forget Fireburner!

[Danathar]

If you count the number of LINUX CDrom burning applications that are NOT frontend to command line tools then the only other comparison would be to IgD's Fireburner at www.fireburner.com

Yes...it's shareware. I've suggested that he should probably just release the LINUX version of Fireburner as freeware but I have yet to fully convince him.

Basically....fireburner is small, fast and does the job. Give it a try!

Re:Let's not forget Fireburner!

[makomk]

If you count the number of LINUX CDrom burning applications that are NOT frontend to command line tools

What's wrong with front-ends to command-line tools, as long as they work? Why should every CD burning interface have to have its own (probably out-of-date/buggy) CD-burning code? And remember that CD burning software under Linux usually has to be SUID root (due to locking program memory into RAM and/or priority boosts?)

Re:Let's not forget Fireburner!

[Danathar]

Did'nt say there was. Except if you are going to compare software. Compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.

Fireburner is a single executable and one .so or .dll if you want mp3 support. No installer needed. Small footprint

Re:Let's not forget Fireburner!

[alonso]

But it don't burn DVD!

Re:Let's not forget Fireburner!

[Danathar]

I've talked to IgD....support comming soon. It's really trivial he says.

Several things...

[Kjella]

Qt is commercial or GPL, GTK is LGPL. In additon, there have been other releases, like Qt Non-commercial 3.2 which complicates it a bit further. In addition, the GPL version has been Linux/Mac only. The upcoming Qt 4.0 will be GPL (or commercial) under Windows.

Basicly, I think the K* apps are more interested in integrating themselves with KDE, whilr gaim/openoffice is much more targetted at being cross-platform. Now, which is better is a matter of discussion. Macs have lived (or is that "dying"?) with their completely own integrated app suite for decades.

I'm not so sure it hurts KDE/Qt as you are. To put it this way, I'd rather run GTK apps from a KDE desktop than the other way around :). Of course, showing off some good KDE apps wouldn't hurt, but it is much easier to switch between *nix systems than it is to make the "big jump" from Windows.

Kjella

You assume quite a bit.

[geminidomino]

K3B requires KDE,or the libraries, at least. I don't have them installed, nor do I have any intention of doing so.(When it came time to install bloated frameworks, gnome won.) If Nero doesn't, it wins (but still loses to the command line)

Re:You assume quite a bit.

[Bertie]

Your loss. I reckon K3B's the best CD-burning application I've used on any platform, bar none. If you want to miss out on that because you're not keen on loading up some KDE libraries now and again, please yourself.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Keys? We don't need no friggin' keys.

[EzInKy]

The reason they want users to buy windows version to use nerolinux is simple. They don't want to go through the effort of making a new scheme to prevent piracy. Instead of having separate buy linux version and buy windows version things with different keys and such. They will just sell keys. You can even think of it as you're not buying the windows version. You're buying a key from ahead that lets you use either version. Also, this way people who already have a windows key can get the linux version for free.

Our applications drive perfectly well without them, thank you.

Nero = Proprietary K3b = Open Source

[TheCoroner]

Nuff Said

My opinions

[agraupe]

K3B: I think I finally have all of the options set right to burn a CD, but now it crashes when I try to open the burn dialog.

NeroLinux: I tried Nero for Windows, and it didn't like my CD burner, so I can't imagine it will be any better for Linux, if not far worse. It also costs more money than I feel like paying

mkisofs+cdrecord: Ah, the perfect combination of tools to make a data CD. I have never had the urge to burn data CDs with anything else (I only tried k3b for audio cds).

vcdimager+cdrdao: After getting the video in the correct format, these two tools make quick work of burning a VCD. And even the encoding is easy once you figure out what tool to use.

cdrecord for music: It works. It's a pain in the ass if you want to get everything in the right order, or if you want custom pregaps, but it works.

cdrdao for music: I have a suspicion that cdrdao is a very powerful tool, but the syntax boggles me. Someday I'm planning to figure it out enough that I can write a program to generate the CUE file for me. On second thought, there's probably already a program that does that.

So, in conclusion, if you like GUI, NeroLinux might be an option, but it probably suffers like K3B when it comes to support. For power-users, it will probably not stand up to the power of the command line.

Re:My opinions

[otis wildflower]

Of course, YMMV.

The only problems I ever had with K3b were related to permissions and getting thru Linux's clunky ATAPI burner support. In fact, I had an LG DVD/CDRW, though it wasn't one of the notorious ones. K3b also automagically hits freedb when ripping and burns id3 tags as CD TEXT, great for car CD decks that don't take MP3s but do display CD TEXT. I wish iTunes could do that!!!!

I've burned tons of discs flawlessly and effortlessly in K3b. I've done so off network shares (NFS and SMB). It got to the point where windows people were asking me to burn their stuff off shares because their windows apps would crash or coaster.

So, YMMV.

(OffTopic: When I showed off my KDE desktop (Baghira, Apollon, K3b, Konqi, Kopete, KMail, etc) to windows power users, I came pretty close to converting them on the spot. They loved the UI consistency and integration.)

Re:My opinions

[ookaze]

Huh ? K3B crashes when you open the burn dialog ?
Then you have a bigger problem with your KDE installation. The burning process is not what is making K3B crash. Too bad your only problem is that.
Because K3B uses cdrecord, mkisofs, vcdimager and cdrdao, you will have at least the same power than with command line.

I'm very powerful with the command line, but K3B (and most Linux frontend) is way faster than you typing some command line for data CD (I save package CD regularly, I can tell it is faster).

For video, DVDRip is way more powerful and faster than command line to create VCD, SVCD, DVD, ...

K3B is extremely easy for music CDs too, even in setting pregaps.

Sorry to tell you that, but for a power user, K3B is still faster than command line for anything related to burning, EXCEPT automated tasks.

Re:My opinions

[Anonymous Coward]

Strange situation with K3B, considering that it uses mkisofs and cdrecord... Why would it crash?

Re:My opinions

[6wl]

Got to agree, I think K3b is a perfect example of how CLI + GUI application development should happen.

K3b is a wonderful application, but under the hood is an equally powerful set of command line tools. I've lost count with the number of times I've been thankful that I'm still able to burn a CD/DVD from the commandline.

CDRecord (etc) CLI tools + K3b frontend= perfect example of software engineering. IMHO. More applications should be engineered in such a way.

Re:My opinions

[Anonymous Coward]

...K3B: I think I finally have all of the options set right to burn a CD, but now it crashes when I try to open the burn dialog

find ~/.kde -name \*kb3\*rc\* -exec mv "{}" /tmp ";" fixes it when k3b crashes on startup for me. GNU/Debian unstable.

Re:My opinions

[agraupe]

Well, notice that I said (or at least intended to say) that it crashes when I open the burn dialog, not when it tries to start burning.

Nero works period?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get your head our of your ass. The fact is the opposite is true. I have not had a problem with K3B in over a year. In fact, when people ask me how to fix their Nero problems I say downoad Knoppix and use K3B. Just for that it's worth it. Perhaps K3B had problems at one time and Nero was great. But think back, remember when Gear was the best selling CD burner? Times change Nero worked for awhile, but Windows has collapsed as a useful platform and Nero is history. K3B wipes the floor with Nero.

Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[FreeUser]

Like mastering and burning video DVDs, in linux there is no easy tool.

And with NeroLinux there is still no easy tool, because NeroLinux doesn't do DVD mastering. k3b burns DVDs just as well as NeroLinux does (k3b also doesn't do mastering).

Excellent points, but I take issue with the statement "there is still no easy tool."

I use qdvdauthor, which is quite intuitive, for mastering video DVDs. I put together a DVD of my grandmother's memorial service for the family, complete with fancy menus and all the usual bells and whistles. It was quite easy, and k3b burned the resulting .iso painlessly.

Is it an all in one monolithic solution? Thankfully, no, and as far as I'm concerned, I hope people who do want to bring the windoze notion of one program doing a mediocre job at everything stay the hell away from *BSD and Linux. I like simple programs that do a focused task well. It means the programs are better, more reliable, and more easy for the developers to maintain, which means I get better software. For burning DVDs under Linux from your camcorder, for example, it's as easy as 1, 2, 3 ...

1) use kino to import video data from the camera into dv2 format

2) use qdvdauthor to master the dvd

3) use k3b to burn the DVD

each program does what it does very well, none are monolothic, and if something better comes along for any of the steps above I can substitute the new, better tool, without losing the features I'm used to or prefer in the other two steps.

Nero is dead. These people should have done a little market research before trying to sell a product that, when it matures, won't do any more than the libre software already available does just fine, k3b being just one example.

Re:Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[Azghoul]

Great response, thanks. I was going to mod you up, but I decided I'd rather have the link back to this when I get a chance to set up my video camera...

Re:Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[snuf23]

"Nero is dead"

Perhaps you should say "Nero is irrelevant on Linux".

On the Windows platform Nero (the full version, not express or OEM) has more features than the competitors. I've used a ton of cd burning software and find Nero the best overall on Windows.
As for anyone who laments the lack of commercial software ported to Linux, this article might give a hint why. There are two possible responses, work hard to make Nero better and more competitive with k3b or just shrug their shoulders and drop the app. It will be interesting to see what Nero does. Probably say, well that was a nice experiment and go back to selling software for Windows.
I'm not saying Nero Linux is any good, I don't know as a I haven't used it - but this is a good example of why many commercial vendors won't touch Linux. I mean why bother to spend money to develop for a platform fueled by people who develop their own free solutions?

Re:Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[xandman]

You seem to think that no one wants an all in one solution . . . what freakin' planet are you living on? I agree that the beauty of having small programs that do a specific job well is great for people that know how to link those programs together in a functional and cohesive way, but I think it is safe to say that most people PREFER the monolithic solution - take a look at the popularity of Apple's i(insert all-encompasing noun) The general computer using population like integrated user friendly apps, which is exactly what the creative teams behind GNOME and KDE are trying to produce. K3B is just an example - which if you followed the development of KDE you would see. If Nero can provide the same functionality in linux that it does in windows then I think it will just make linux a more attractive solution, and I don't see how that is bad.

my 2 cents.

Re:Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[Pete]

I can only say that it's going to be interesting when the Windows version of QT4 is available under the GPL and so most of KDE4 can (and will) be ported to Windows.

There are quite a few noteworthy KDE apps that punch well above their weight in comparison to Windows-only closed-source alternatives. K3B is one, apparently (I haven't used it), but I could see Konqueror (especially if people get the idea it's like Safari-for-Windows), KDevelop, Quanta and perhaps even KOffice and KMail getting a bit of attention.

If the company behind Nero is aware that K3B will be making an appearance on Windows eventually, they should be at least a bit concerned - especially if an ordinary user can come to the same conclusion as this reviewer ("Hmmm, nicer interface, much more usable, works fine, free...").

Of course, it'll mostly depend on whether your average Windows-only person ever becomes aware of the wide range of KDE4 software that they'll be able to install on their Windows machine. I suspect the KDE people wouldn't be that interested in an organised marketing effort at Windows users... but stranger things have happened. Anyway, word-of-mouth can be disturbingly effective. :)

Re:Mastering video DVDs under linux IS easy

[Anonymous Coward]

IF kde apps are ported to windows (I haven't got the faintest idea if or when it will happen), I can only imagine that they will spread fast into the windows world. Word of mouth is powerfull indead - linux has come to what it is today partly due to word of mouth (and a hell of a lot of work ofcourse).

No... Re:Image writing

[templest]

Nero images are ISOs with a different extension. I know this first hand... and either way, my copy of Nero rips directly to either:
1) BIN/CUE
2) ISO
3) NRG

Dare I say the person that wrote the article doesn't know how to use Nero properly? Yes, yes I dare.

Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windows?

[intnsred]

Am I the only one that is not only not excited but is slightly repulsed by NeroLINUX?

I don't get it. Is the objective of GNU/Linux to simply invent another Windows? A platform where essential utilities (and IMHO, a CD/DVD burner program is essential) are commercial?

Looking at NeroLINUX, there are several points to ponder:

# NeroLINUX is not free as in "free beer". You have to have a registered version of Nero to use the program.
# NeroLINUX is not free as in "liberty". The software is closed source code and claims to use some sort of a "NeroAPI". (The term "proprietary APIs" simply should not be in a GNU/Linux user's vocabulary.)
# Nero notes on its web site, "Important note: Nero does not provide Technical Support for NeroLINUX."

Sorry, I don't see anything to get excited about. To me, it's just another half-step by a commercial company to brag "yeah, we run on Linux" while not really supporting the platform and another way for Nero to generate registrations from its Windows OEM versions.

Again, is the goal of Linux the porting of the same closed-source, marketing-driven, software gimmickry which is "business as usual" in the Windows world? Or is there another, higher goal which is aimed at providing both developers and end-users a different experience?

Unless we all want to be hostage to the same software gimmicks that permeate the Windows world, I'd strongly suggest joining the mailing lists of your favorite GNU/Linux-based burning program and participating in the community that is working to develop those programs.

Re:Too Late? NOT REALLY!

[urbieta]

Windows users still represent 90%+ of worldwide computer users, so finding the same burning program on linux as the one they allready know how to use will help them dive into the unknown world of linux more comfortably :)

I wonder if they will ever support emovix? heh if they did, I bet it would give them a competitive advantage over other brands even on the windows version.

Great!

[jack_csk]

Now, let's start another flame war.

Blah, NeroLinux needs salt

[madpuppy]

After using NeroLinux I have to get on my Knees and thank Sebastian Trueg for K3B. I don't get it, Nerolinux is so bland, it doesn't see my burner, so it doesn't work, it is about as enjoyable to look at
as a letter written in marker on a piece of cardboard.

and other posters making the statement that people will use NeroLinux over K3B because it is easier is a patent JOKE! and proves that they have never used K3B. it works without the need to configure it. well, in Mandrake I don't have to do anything at all, it just works.

also, even though I am not a Gnome user, I have tried to use Gnome alternatives to K3B with mixed results, most of them involving not burning anything, but, of course I don't use Gnome, so I consider it a shortcoming on my part to the software.

That reminds me, I gotta' send some money to the K3B team....they deserve it!

CUE files in cdrdao

[Anonymous Coward]

http://howtos.linux.com/howtos/MP3-CD-Burning/dao- burning.shtml/

The "generate_toc.sh" dissappeared in 1.1.7 or so but is available on the net: http://darkoli.free.fr/linux/generate_toc.sh

- Peder

I too had been using GUIs until

[jago25_98]

I relised it's just as easy to:

1) collect all the files in one folder (symlinking?)
using a gui filemanager
2) make an iso of that folder
3) and burn that iso

Script steps 2 and 3 and it's pretty fast.

The only annoyance is the inability of a filemanager to tell the size of the dir without refreshing after every move. I should script this with `du`

Bah

[tomstdenis]

That website is gay, like 900 ads on it... And of course, 30 words per page so you have to reload a billion ads to read the article.

Then you're saying "well you don't have to read that site..." you're right. I didn't and I won't. ;-)

I'm all for a banner ad or two but when you're just blatantly looking for ad hits and it's an article about CD BURNING ... get a real job.

Tom

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[latroM]

I don't get it. Is the objective of GNU/Linux to simply invent another Windows? A platform where essential utilities (and IMHO, a CD/DVD burner program is essential) are commercial?

Commerciality is not bad, non-free software is.

why I prefer K3b

[calethix]

I recently did some upgrades to my PC and set it up to dual boot between XP and Mandrake. I have a Liteon 812 DVD burner now and I kept having problems when burning audio CDs in XP.

I tried both Sonic (came with my drive) and Nero, both at various write speeds. I kept having problems where the CDs would work fine in my PC but were very flakey on any CD player. It's worth noting that I didn't have any problems using the same media with my older Creative CDRW.

So I decided to boot into Mandrake and gave K3b a try. To me, it seemed just as easy to use as Nero and much more intuitive than Sonic. When I used K3b to burn my audio CDs, they worked fine in every CD player I tried.

More recently, I bought some really cheap DVD-Rs from Circuit City. I know it's somewhat my fault for getting crappy media but I didn't want to wait to order them online and couldn't turn down the price (50pk for $8). I tried burning a data DVD in Sonic and Nero but kept getting errors. So I tried K3b again and sure enough, no problems at all.

Re:why I prefer K3b

[Anonymous Coward]

It sounds more like you have a windows driver problem than anything.

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[pandrijeczko]

Mod parent up.

I agree 100%. There seems to be this "movement" that believes just because most PCs in the world run Windows, then copying the Windows GUI environment and applications into other operating systems is the only way forward.

Incidentally, I use Nero in Windows occasionally, most of the time it does its job but it also can suffer from very bad slowdown problems, does not like dealing with file deletions on network shares and consistently feels "sluggish". All in all, it's the best of a mediocre bunch of Windows CD burning applications...

Aside from that, what seems to be forgotten is that the GUI enviroment in any UNIX-like operating system is a separate application, not part of the core OS and therefore does not need to be run to achieve certain tasks.

I'm more than happy with efforts to encourage the Windows community to try Linux but most of that community has fallen for far too much Microsoft hype over the past few years - Windows was sold to them as an OS that negated any need to understand how PCs and OSes work and, as a result, we have a community rife with viruses and spyware who now have to perform more regular software updates than the average UNIX sysadmin.

I don't want Linux or Free Software to "move" towards those people. Instead, I want those people to understand that using free software does come with a price - namely to spend some time learning how to use that software, the OS and the PC to become more knowledgeable and part of a community of users who give feedback to developers of free software.

I'm not trying to be a PC or OS "snob" here - I use Gnome / KDE along with everyone else, I even run Windows 2000 for some stuff I need to do.

But nothing is better for one's productivity on a computer than a whole bunch of simple, well-written, command-line tools and a good knowledge of shell-scripting.

Stop complaining - We got what we wanted

[filterchild]

First off, I'm not a K3b person or a Nero person. I'm actually a console mp3burn user.
I've used K3b in the past and I must say that it's a very formidible opponent to go up against. I don't have a Nero CD key so I have to go with what everyone else is saying about NeroLinux.

I think it's great that we're finally getting some commercial Linux software, corporate people don't care whether K3b is "better," they just want brand recognition. So now we have some brand reccognition. If Nero gets positive feedback from this, other companies will be likely to follow. If we can prove to Nero that Linux is a viable platform to develop for, they'll keep at it. RMS probably doesn't like this, but it needs to happen.

If we can give the people what they think they want (brand recognition), we can influence them. E.g. if J.Random Windows User goes to buy EasyToInstallAndUseLinux 1.0 and NeroLinux and perhaps even WordPerfectLinux (sometime in the future), he'd be set. Now, say that ETIAULinux comes with KDE and K3b and J.RWU discovers it one day, likes it, and uses it as his default burning program.

That's what we'll have to do: lure them with commercial software and win them over with opensource.

No SCSI emulation in Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked I still required SCSI-emulation in my kernel to get K3B or CDRecord working. There is the "dev=ATAPI:x,y,z" option, but I never got that working correctly.

Well, there is no such thing as scsi emulation.

From cdrecord's READMEs:

The ATAPI standard describes method of sending SCSI commands over IDE
transport with some small limitations to the "real" SCSI standard.
SCSI commands are send via IDE transport using the 'ATA packet'
command. There is no SCSI emulation - ATAPI drives include native
SCSI command support.

--png

Re:No SCSI emulation in Linux

[k8to]

Note that this is a very contentious view put forth by the author of cdrecord.

Joerg Schilling, the cdrecord author, claims that because there is significant overlap between ATAPI and SCSI, that ATAPI is in fact SCSI. This is patently untrue. SCSI is one thing, and ATAPI is another. They have different specifications, different standards bodies, and varied differences which make them incompatable. It may be that they are similar enough that some code can be retargetted from one to another without much change, but that does not make them the same.

It is this position that cdrecord has taken that has given rise to all linux distributions patching cdrecord to remove its need to think of IDE cd devices as SCSI. cdrecord underlines the falsity of this position by insisting on identifying the IDE device by the BUS:ID:LUN tuple from the SCSI world which does not actually exist in the IDE/ATAPI world. The need to feed invented nonsense numbers into cdrecord in order for it to bother to access the IDE/ATAPI device is the reason that this software has been patched to allow specification of /dev/hdc like a normal unix utility.

Re:No SCSI emulation in Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, but it looks like MMC *is part* of the SCSI architecture...

Re:No SCSI emulation in Linux

[k8to]

Yes, there are SCSI CD burners and whatnot also. BIG INSIGHT.

nerolinux and gtoaster

[ywwg]

Has anyone noticed how much nerolinux looks like gtoaster?

http://ywwg.com/photolog/archives/000408.html

A fate awaiting them all: they missed the bus

[Boolda]

The story of NeroLinux will be repeated several times in future. This will happen to all commercial software vendor who did not port their software to GNU/Linux when there was need. K3B made NeroLinux redundant. I wait to see the same fate for Adobe software.

K3B is better on legacy systems.

[MsGeek]

The one thing that annoys about Nero is this: why the HELL do they require a 500MHz PIII as the lowest-end system for using Nero 6.x??? This is so lame. I have a ThinkPad 600e retrofitted with a Panasonic slot-loading combo drive, and K3B works a treat on it. Perhaps Nero is getting a bit of middle-age bloat?

Since my Windows partition on the 600e is formatted as FAT32, I can burn anything from Linux, so having a working version of Nero doesn't hurt. Still...wtf are they doing in Nero 6.x that makes it so resource hungry????

I would indeed welcome a Windows port of K3B.

Easy way to make ISO

[maotx]

Easy way to make an ISO from a cd is
$cat /dev/cdrom > mycd.iso

Re:Easy way to make ISO

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehe, or consider this:
dd if=/dev/cdroms/cdrom0 of=mycd.iso
Even better because you can control it with various options, such as blocksize etc.

Re: Win3B

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason there has not yet been a version of k3b for windows is licensing - with qt now being available for windows-compatible gpl software, it is rumored that k3b will be available for windows by 2006-02

Re:NeroLinux vs K3B

[sjbcfh]

The only problem I have with K3B is that it can't copy multi-track CD's. (eg. SVCD disk) This was the case around 3 months ago - has it changed?

Yes. In 0.11.20, you have the option to make a clone copy (i.e., a raw bit-for-bit copy) of a CD. K3b recommends using this option to copy (S)VCDs.

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[fgb]

I thought the objective of Linux was to give people more choices.
This gives people another choice.

Is that bad?

Nero Vs CDrecord

[pinr]

K3b is a great program as is XCDRoast, however both these programs are just graphical front ends for CDrecord and the other command line tools. Even though Nero is a closed source commercial product I for one am very pleased to see an alternative to CDrecord, which I have often, along with many other users, found to be problematic and a general pain in the arse.

K3B is high-quality software

[PoprocksCk]

I can't see myself using NeroLINUX, simply because K3B is already an extremely polished and easy-to-use application. CD burning is one of those things where I just can't be bothered to do anything advanced -- I just want to set my device permissions and have the nice GUI tell my backends what to do.

By the way, I'm a die-hard GNOME user. But K3B is the one single KDE app I use. That should give a pretty good idea of how highly I personally regard it, and I know others do as well.

second source

[Anonymous Coward]

Nerolinux is a great thing if for no other reason that we have an alternative if something happens to cdrecord. There's been times in the past that political crap between the linux kernel authors and the cdrecord author has largely broken cd-recording in linux. I don't like an important ability of modern computers to be held hostage by one guy's command-line app that nearly everything (including K3B) is a front end for. Plus, cdrecord is starting to hold back features for the pay version (yes, pay version of cdrecord). I love K3B, but the dependancy on cdrecord worries me.

Btw, haven't read TFA yet, but can Nerolinux handle files larger than 4 GB? Had quite a bit of trouble burning an hdtv transport stream to DVD in K3B, ended up having to split it up.

Re: Win3B

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason there has not yet been a version of k3b for windows is licensing

Bullshit. Qt has been licenced under the GPL for a long time, therefore there is nothing to stop you compiling it on Windows.

Apart from ineptitude, of course. In my experience, most Windows users seem to be more interested in ripping off other people's software than in writing their own software. The "honest" minority either pay for closed-source software and put up with all its limitations, bitching as though there was no alternative; or they realise thre is an alternative, switch to open-source software and never look back.

Re:Objective of GNU/Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the objective of GNU/Linux to simply invent another Windows?

Exactly how does the release of a commercial CD/DVD burning software that runs on Linux imply that?

None of the licenses in the OSS community that I'm aware of stipulate that commercial software can't exist on Linux. Fact is, lots has for a couple of years now though most cases said software was for enterprise not end user.

You can't hide Linux from commercial endeavor forever. Did you think things would never change with IBM and Novell making big support contributions? Or that anyone left didn't find out about Linux because of SCO?

What do you think is actually involved with widespread Linux adoption? Let's see - unknown software vs established brand... What part of "keeping Teh Capitalist Pigs out of your software" do you not grasp so that you might see yourself for what you are.

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[DavidTC]

I agree about Nero on Windows. Yesterday, I was burning a bunch of near identical CDs, each consisting of 2 350 meg files. So I'd do the burn, return to Nero, delete the files, drag the next two in there, rename the volume, and burn again. Simple, right?

Nope...some of the time deleting the two files would use enough CPU as to cause my music to pause for a good two seconds. WTF? It's not even actually deleting the file, it's just deleting a reference to them! (And the other half of the time, it deleted them instantly with no problem.)

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[latroM]

I thought the objective of Linux was to give people more choices. This gives people another choice.

Having an option to become someone's slave isn't a good thing. "Linux" was about giving people freedom. You don't get the freedom talk because the OSS folk doesn't want to talk about it.

Too late for Nero

[TheLastUser]

A lot of software vendors have missed the boat. If they had ported to Linux when there was no free substitute they might have prevented or slowed the development of the free substitute. Now they are competing against a product that is so mature that it is better than their software.

Worse yet, the Linux substirutes will eventually be ported to Windows and undercut their core business. All because they didn't want to "waste" money on a small segment of computer users, who, unfortunately for the propprietory software vendors, happen to be developers.

Painful business lesson. They don't seem to understand that its not about market share in the Linux segment its about market share, period.

Re:Bah

[_randy_64]

That's why it's usually good to look for a Printable Version link on the page. Yeah, you still have to get to the page once to find it, but then it comes up mostly ad-free and all on one page. Of course both versions seem to be Slashdotted now... :)

Screw them all!

[Anonymous Coward]

CDRDAO all the way! Now if only it had support for DVD writing.

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[swv3752]

An unsupported app that requires you to purchase a Windows version; that is suspose to be a choice?

While I can appreciate that Nero tried, a mediocre cd burning program is not needed on Linux at this point. between the commandline tools, and several GUI frontends that work well, why use some PITA software that is marginally faster but otherwise does not work as well as other available software. And you expect me to actually pay money for something that is not markedly better than the alternative.

I purchased WordPerfect for Linux. It was OK, and better than other Office suites available for Linux at the time. But Corel failed to update thier software. The Free Software office suites are not quite good and I do not wish to get burned again.

Nero was first. Who's copying who?

[Anonymous Coward]

You ment to say:

"Has anybody noticed how much gtoaster is trying to be like nero 6?" ;)

Software freedom left out of debate again.

[jbn-o]

Nero is asking the user to give up their software freedom in addition to providing a more clumsy UI and charging money for all of this. It's perfectly fair to compare Nero to K3B, just as countless people compare OpenOffice.org to Microsoft Windows or the GIMP to Adobe Photoshop (and never hesitate to point out how the proprietary alternatives are "better" by some standard that usually doesn't include software freedom).

Nero is not providing "Linux[sic] support", they are using the free software community as a market, not contributing to it.

Nero using alternative API for burning

[antipode]

It is worthwile to point out that NeroLinux has its own API for directly talking to the burning hardware (well, that is, the kernel interfaces). All Linux CD/DVD burning GUIs that I know of are based around the `cdrecord' package and the like (cdrdao, dvd+rw-tools, etc.). This means that all of the GUI Linux burning software are only different in the GUI part: they don't talk to the burner directly, but use a common set of tools to do the actual burning.

NeroLinux is *really* different from them in that it has its own kernel-level routines and does not rely on cdrtools and friends. While this in it self is not necessarily an advantage, I welcome the appearance of NeroLinux as a *real* alternative to the open-source burning software.

Re:Nero was first. Who's copying who?

[athakur999]

Exactly. The NeroLinux screenshots looke very very similar to the Windows version... which is definately not a rebranded copy of gtoaster.

Re:Nero was first. Who's copying who?

[juhaz]

No.

Gtoaster (and by consequence, nerolinux) doesn't look anything like Nero 6, I'd be really surprised if it did, unless they have a time machine, considering that its development was halted 4 years ago.
It bears a slight resemblance to nero4 and 5 (as well as file managers and ftp clients), but is hardly a copy, unlike nerolinux.

I'm okay with copying though, on both sides, but am puzzled by why they choosed to copy five years old interface that looks like shit.

Heavily weighted

[gotw]

I must say, that article reads like the Hutton report.

Re:Does NeroLinux burns CDs on a LG-DVDRAM Drive?

[mfluhr]

Of course. Tested and approuved !

k3b not real burner

[Anonymous Coward]

For all of you k3B fanboys out there, remember k3b is *NOT A BURNING PROGRAM* It's just a stupid GUI frontend.

Same thing with XCDroast and gToaster.

If you wish to compare apples with apples, compare NeroLinux with cddao, cdrecord anc mkisofs

I for one wish to overthrow and kill our KDE/QT and GNOME/GTK zombified gui-arseheaded overlords, and use something that doesn't require bloated piece of crap like QT or GTK to have graphics.

Not quite

[juhaz]

Wrong, Coaster uses libburn.

Both the app and the library are still somewhat unfinished, but quite usable, and not frontends to cdrtools.

Author doesn't grok GTK versus QT

[LuSiDe]

Nero may have its fans in the Windows world, but NeroLinux is not going to win many in the Linux domain. NeroLinux is just not worth the time to learn how to use or even download while K3b is still around.

Huh? He probably speaks for KDE users only here since he compared a GTK1 app with a QT app. Its debatable why one would run a GTK1 app on a GNOMEv2 or KDEvX desktop. Or why would one run a QT application on GNOMEvX? Simply: its undesirable. He should have taken GNOME's CD application into account as well. Although i must add here that i use GNOME and use a Tk frontend called cdrtoaster which works perfect for me.

Nice quote from the article

[cgibbard]

"It is surprising how this awesomely CD burning suite has not been ported to run on Windows; for it would also give the Windows version of Linux a run for its money; or at least a tie."

Ahead good, K3B good, both wins

[lamikr]

Thanks for the Ahead for making Nerolinux for Linux.
I also like to use K3B but I think that it is
good to have another option just for safe.

The good thing and same time also the problem with K3B and most of the other CD/DVD burners is that they are all dependent from the cdrecord.
When there is problems with it, then many of the others than ahead stop working.

And who knows what other features Ahead can add for the future versions.

QT vs GTK

[narooze]

Again, probobly one of the most discussed aspects i the Linux world but, isn't there anyone but me who's noticed that QT's default theme (and many of the others) is horrible, and how is eye candy a good thing. A GUI should, IMHO, be as simple as possible, concentrating on functionality and ease of use before so called eye candy. I'm not saying that NeroLinux has really succeded in providing such a simple GUI, although, K3B's GUI is even near nice either.

Blech

[Trogre]

At least they could have applied some super-sampling to their small screenshots in the review. As they stand, they're ugly and completely unrepresentative.

Out of interest, do any browsers out there automatically super-sample when reducing images with the WIDTH and HEIGHT directives?

Re:NeroLinux ?

[DarkMantle]

From the Nero Burning Rom 6.6.0.0 About Dialog Box.

(c) 1995-2004
Ahead Software AG
Lm Steockmaedle 18
76307 Karlsbad, Germany

Looks like it's still Ahead Software

Re: Win3B

[strider44]

please stop trolling someone else when you're so patently wrong. QT under linux has been GPLed for a long time. QT under Windows has only been GPLed for a month or two (can't remember the exact date of course).

nero for money or k3b for free...tough choice?

[louden obscure]

i found knoppix3.7 to be a lifesaver on recovering a trashed ext3 file system that fsck stuffed entirely into lost+found. the included k3b worked out of the box to burn the few dvd-rws i needed to recover the remains of my smoldering debian sid partition.

or, i spose i could have upgraded my windows partition from winme to xp so i could run the install disk i got with my hp630i or buy a nero copy...

nah, i refuse to spend my beer money on software.

Re:For hackers, made by hackers

[tokabola]

Also nero's licencing may be strange, but don't forget that a lot of CDwriters bundle Nero 6 with em.

I noticed that you didn't say you had tried NeroLinux, have you tried to get it? An earlier article (too lazy to look up the /. thread on that one) said that the bundled versions didn't qualify. You had to have a license for the FULL version ($60 to $80 US retail, IIRC).

I was thinking it would be neat if drive manufacturers bundled K-3b with the drives - alongside the Windows apps. Then I realized that pretty much every distro that includes KDE already has K3b on the distro's install discs (or through apt-get of portage, etc).

Tommy

Does it fix the 2GB file size problem?

[dbIII]

The problem I have with k3b is not being able to put individual files bigger than 2GB on a DVD, does anyone know if Nero on linux can do this, just like it can on the windows version?

From the command line you can do it with mkudffs, mount a blank image on loopback, copy the file to the image, and then burn it with cdrecord, but even putting that in a script is confusing enough for a lot of people. Having GUI burning software that does the job is a lot better.

WTF?

[elfofdoom]

So I'm reading about NeroLinux, and I figure "hey I have Nero, why not give it a try." So I try to download it and it tells me I need to register my serial ( the third line in /mnt/win/Program Files/Ahead/Nero/NeroHistory.log ). I enter the serial and it tells me that I entered an OEM serial and that I can upgrade it to a full version for $49.99. WTF! Nero came with my DVD burner which I am using under Linux, so shouldn't the OEM license extend to NeroLinux as well? Therefore I have come to the conclusion that we have another money grubbing corporation trying to make a buck off open source.

Re: Win3B

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks. GPL is GPL. If you release a piece of software for one platform under the GPL, you cannot prevent someone from porting it to any other platform.

Or is porting simply too much effort for Windows users?

Re: Win3B

[strider44]

Of course they can't stop you. But then the port won't be QT anymore, and trolltech aren't going to update your port to correspond with their CVS, and KDE aren't going to wait for you to catch up, so you're going to get left behind very quickly. However even so porting a piece of software (read: porting *well*) isn't as easy as you make it out to be (you're obviously not a programmer, or at least not one who's attempted cross-platform code. This I find ironic, or at least hypocritical with your commenting on not ripping other's work but writing your own). You most definitely can't just copy-paste into VC++ and click compile like you seem to be implying in the great-grandparent post. Sorry mate but it doesn't work that way.

But why would anyone take the trouble? If they like KDE so much then they're quite obviously going to be content with using linux...

Not that you've got a point anyway - K3B is most probably never going to run through windows purely because it relies on CDRecord and the kernel interface, so porting it would be a lot harder than a normal program.

Re:Is the objective of GNU/Linux to recreate Windo

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't say it was a good choice.

Horrible writing

[Bill Kendrick]

Okay, so cool, k3b is better than NeroLinux. No big surprise there, honestly. (Not that I've used Nero on Windows, but after trying k3b on Linux, I can't imagine anything being much better or easier to use.)

But seriously... that person needs to learn to write. (I admit I'm no writer, but at least I have the sense to have someone proofread it first!)

(It culda b33n w0rse tho, i spose)