Yes good point, I completely forgot about D. D really takes metaprogramming top a whole new level compared to C++ (and rust). It's more than C++ without the warts. D was certainly credible and it's interesting why it didn't succeed.
I think that one problem was that D wasn't created to solve a specific problem better than C++. It was designed to be C++ without the flaws, but maybe there was nothing where D was such a hugely definitive advantage that you had to use it. New languages have a big energy barrier. With rust at least, there was that one use case that C++ just couldn't do.
D's metaprogramming is cool no doubt, but I guess we've seen work lisp that metaprogramming isn't enough to make a language actually work well for lots of people. D is certainly better than C++ on certain ways, but there's nothing quite definitive enough to overcome inertia.
Plus D came about before the internet hype machine could really help it.
If sheer volume was an indication that the critics were wrong then you ought to be a fan of 50 shades of grey. It is after all one of the best selling books ever and I believe the fastest selling.
I'm always curious to know which ones will thrive and which ones won't, and what the use-cases for each are, in other words, where would you use one rather than the other.
The reason for rust's existence is to write irregular, fine grained multithreaded code in a language that basically has the same machine and memory model as C++, with zero overhead abstractions etc. Multithreading is notoriously hard and C++ doesn't provide any solid tools to avoid races. Rust has the entire type system bent to that cause (that also rules out memory errors).
It was created by Mozilla to write Firefox because they couldn't get a multithreaded browser engine working in C++ with fine grained multithreading. Actually no one managed despite having substantially larger teams. Only Mozilla has one now, because of their rust effort.
So not too surprisingly, rust is the best language for the task it was specifically created for. Whether it escapes that niche substantially remains to be seen. Most problems aren't as hard as writing a multithreaded browser engine.
I'm not altogether sure of the relevance of 'SJW' is to this technically, especially as the term seems to be applied as a term of abuse (by others) rather than a term of self-identification (so in this case presumably used by those not involved in the development of the language).
No idea. People seem to be hurling it around as an all purpose insult. There's no coherence to it's use. They could equally likely be objecting to the borrow checker Ed the code of conduct.
I think my main objection so far to Rust is that I can't just download a tarball, unzip, set up some environment variables, and run. It seems that you have to run an installer, which I really dislike! But that's me.
You can't do that with a C compiler either. You have to run the compiler's installer before you can build the compiler. Standard bootstrap problem: rustc is written in rust. Or do you mean that the binary requires and installer? If so that's just lazy and there's no excuse.
If one compiles gcc and does a make install to some clean directory, you can tar that up and ship it. And it just runs, no environment variables needed. It uses rpath stuff to locate the.so files and figure from that where the headers are. Very neat.
There are areas where the utterly borked C++ is king?
Yep. Areas populated by grown-ups, who need performance but for some inexplicable reason don't want to spend all their time micromanaging a computer by hand when it can be done programmatically.
Even C now depends on C++. All the compilers people actually use (the ones with decent optimizers) are writen in C++ now.
C++ has its share of warts, but anyone who thinks it's "utterly borked" is flat out ignorant.
People here used to be excited or at least interested/thoughtful about real actual nerdy news.
Now it doesn't matter the topic of conversation, the perpetually offended snowflakes cannot shut up about SJW. Bleh.
If one ignores the hype, the fanbois, the haters and the plain stupid, Rust is an interesting language. It's the first credible attempt to displace C++ in areas where C++ is king. And by credible, I mean not designed by someone who clearly hates and or plain doesn't understand C++ and can't see why it's used.
It's not a perfect lanaguage and it's not a panacea (fucking duh) but it makes some of the knottier problems of C++ go away, especially in certain domains and it's given the C++ community interesting things and directions to think about. So yeah it's interesting because I'm a nerd and interested in programming languages.
Release too many things, too quickly, without enough time between your releases, and people get tired of it and lose interest.
Pretty much yeah. I've been suffering Marvel fatigue too. I used to love superhero movies, but there are too many now.
Plus the solo movie just wasn't a film that needed to be made. It just wasn't really anything. Added nothing, mediocre plot, mediocre cast, even the look was just mediocre.
waiting for the European Union to collapse under the weight of its own bureaucratic stupidity
Wow the stupid is strong in this one.
This happens in literally every functioning democracy in the world.
1. Someone/party/group proposes incredibly asshatty law. 2. People in a position to vote on it say no. 3. Incredibly asshatty proposal fails and the law is not created.
But for some reason the thing you took away from that was (and I paraphrase) "dur teh EU *drool*". Seriously this happens in all levels of government in all democracies the world over.
You should examine your feelings to see why you have an irrational hatred of the EU and are waiting for it to fail.
Most people don't do a lot of crime [...] live in a tent city [...]
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
--Anatole France
The money you want to spend on law enforcement and incarceration is better spent on making sure the tent cities don't need to exist in the first place. Better to spend money on them so they can get work and contribute to the economy than the endless black hold of punishment
That's because nobody ever prosecutes them!! Hand down a few stiff sentences and fines, and then we'll see how suicidal they really are.
I prefer a simpler free market approach. Publish every pilot name and let customers vote with their dollars. How many do you think will take a flight from a pilot who's dead?
Except I did. Posting wrong links then claiming "you didn't read" isn't an argument. It's dumbass. If you think the link says it, quot the part and say WHY you have that interpretation. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.
I think it's a quite common attitude that it's a moral deficit so they deserve it really. I mean they should just be stronger.
I am not likely to ever get addicted to gambling because I simply don't get any kind of rush from it. It's very easy to not be addicted to something which to me is a bit boring and expensive.
But there's no moral fortitude in me not gambling.
I've never understood why gambling is so much of a controlled substance here in the US.
Because it's as addicitve and damaging as some controlled substances are.
Humans are manipulatable monkeys for the most part. And gambling organisations have shown they have no qualms about using that to the maximum extent regardless of lives they destroyed. The law in this case doesn't recognise some idealised form of human that doesn't really exist, it actually recognises humans as they are.
Flash works, and implementation has been paid for. Unless you are willing to pay for new implementation, you don't get to tell people that they can't use their existing implementation "because reasons".
It's honestly baffling how many people are so ignorant of the most basic concepts of "budgeting" and "sunk costs". No wonder so many are living paycheck to paycheck.
You what? Why on earth would I care about some random person's sunk costs? That's their problem not mine. The major browser vendors and mobile platforms are telling people to stop using flash. They do not care enough about your sunk costs or budgets, and they don't have to because they are completely independent of you.
So, yes they DO get to tell you to stop using flash. And you have to suck it up.
Nothing you are saying had any relation to the topic of conversion.
You've also failed to explain how quoting a fact (slightly incorrectly) snot the French resistance is religious SJW bullshit.
Thing is we both know it isn't and we both know the reason you keep trying to obscure and keep abounding the original point is because you're incapable of every admitting fault. A conversation with you will never, ever be productive, but it is mightily entertaining!
Slashdot Mirror
Yes good point, I completely forgot about D. D really takes metaprogramming top a whole new level compared to C++ (and rust). It's more than C++ without the warts. D was certainly credible and it's interesting why it didn't succeed.
I think that one problem was that D wasn't created to solve a specific problem better than C++. It was designed to be C++ without the flaws, but maybe there was nothing where D was such a hugely definitive advantage that you had to use it. New languages have a big energy barrier. With rust at least, there was that one use case that C++ just couldn't do.
D's metaprogramming is cool no doubt, but I guess we've seen work lisp that metaprogramming isn't enough to make a language actually work well for lots of people. D is certainly better than C++ on certain ways, but there's nothing quite definitive enough to overcome inertia.
Plus D came about before the internet hype machine could really help it.
If you think it's an attack on men then you must have a really fucking low opinion of men. Why do you hate us so much?
We're not actually all raging arseholes you know.
You are not just a disgusting racist sexist sick in the head fuck. You are also a tool for a big corporation
Stop holding back and tell us how you really feel.
If sheer volume was an indication that the critics were wrong then you ought to be a fan of 50 shades of grey. It is after all one of the best selling books ever and I believe the fastest selling.
I'm always curious to know which ones will thrive and which ones won't, and what the use-cases for each are, in other words, where would you use one rather than the other.
The reason for rust's existence is to write irregular, fine grained multithreaded code in a language that basically has the same machine and memory model as C++, with zero overhead abstractions etc. Multithreading is notoriously hard and C++ doesn't provide any solid tools to avoid races. Rust has the entire type system bent to that cause (that also rules out memory errors).
It was created by Mozilla to write Firefox because they couldn't get a multithreaded browser engine working in C++ with fine grained multithreading. Actually no one managed despite having substantially larger teams. Only Mozilla has one now, because of their rust effort.
So not too surprisingly, rust is the best language for the task it was specifically created for. Whether it escapes that niche substantially remains to be seen. Most problems aren't as hard as writing a multithreaded browser engine.
I'm not altogether sure of the relevance of 'SJW' is to this technically, especially as the term seems to be applied as a term of abuse (by others) rather than a term of self-identification (so in this case presumably used by those not involved in the development of the language).
No idea. People seem to be hurling it around as an all purpose insult. There's no coherence to it's use. They could equally likely be objecting to the borrow checker Ed the code of conduct.
I think my main objection so far to Rust is that I can't just download a tarball, unzip, set up some environment variables, and run. It seems that you have to run an installer, which I really dislike! But that's me.
You can't do that with a C compiler either. You have to run the compiler's installer before you can build the compiler. Standard bootstrap problem: rustc is written in rust. Or do you mean that the binary requires and installer? If so that's just lazy and there's no excuse.
If one compiles gcc and does a make install to some clean directory, you can tar that up and ship it. And it just runs, no environment variables needed. It uses rpath stuff to locate the .so files and figure from that where the headers are. Very neat.
There are areas where the utterly borked C++ is king?
Yep. Areas populated by grown-ups, who need performance but for some inexplicable reason don't want to spend all their time micromanaging a computer by hand when it can be done programmatically.
Even C now depends on C++. All the compilers people actually use (the ones with decent optimizers) are writen in C++ now.
C++ has its share of warts, but anyone who thinks it's "utterly borked" is flat out ignorant.
Modded down for not liking a mediocre movie? Lol wut?
Or was I not toeing the party line right about Disney, eh? Not enough hating of the wrong kind of people it seems.
People here used to be excited or at least interested/thoughtful about real actual nerdy news.
Now it doesn't matter the topic of conversation, the perpetually offended snowflakes cannot shut up about SJW. Bleh.
If one ignores the hype, the fanbois, the haters and the plain stupid, Rust is an interesting language. It's the first credible attempt to displace C++ in areas where C++ is king. And by credible, I mean not designed by someone who clearly hates and or plain doesn't understand C++ and can't see why it's used.
It's not a perfect lanaguage and it's not a panacea (fucking duh) but it makes some of the knottier problems of C++ go away, especially in certain domains and it's given the C++ community interesting things and directions to think about. So yeah it's interesting because I'm a nerd and interested in programming languages.
And fuck anyone here who isn't. News for nerds.
Release too many things, too quickly, without enough time between your releases, and people get tired of it and lose interest.
Pretty much yeah. I've been suffering Marvel fatigue too. I used to love superhero movies, but there are too many now.
Plus the solo movie just wasn't a film that needed to be made. It just wasn't really anything. Added nothing, mediocre plot, mediocre cast, even the look was just mediocre.
Of course, half the web sites out there have Google Ads and analytics and whatnot.
It helps running noscript. I have google analytics and a bunch of others blacklisted.
What are the EU nations doing with all the extra tax money?
what extra tax money. Oh wait there isn't any because the law didn't get passed.
Please, don't let reality hit you in the ass on the way out.
waiting for the European Union to collapse under the weight of its own bureaucratic stupidity
Wow the stupid is strong in this one.
This happens in literally every functioning democracy in the world.
1. Someone/party/group proposes incredibly asshatty law.
2. People in a position to vote on it say no.
3. Incredibly asshatty proposal fails and the law is not created.
But for some reason the thing you took away from that was (and I paraphrase) "dur teh EU *drool*". Seriously this happens in all levels of government in all democracies the world over.
You should examine your feelings to see why you have an irrational hatred of the EU and are waiting for it to fail.
Super-douchy, insanely stupid law is pissing people off. News at 11.
Or more like insanely stupid proposed law not passed because it pissed people off.
Most people don't do a lot of crime [...] live in a tent city [...]
The money you want to spend on law enforcement and incarceration is better spent on making sure the tent cities don't need to exist in the first place. Better to spend money on them so they can get work and contribute to the economy than the endless black hold of punishment
That's because nobody ever prosecutes them!! Hand down a few stiff sentences and fines, and then we'll see how suicidal they really are.
I prefer a simpler free market approach. Publish every pilot name and let customers vote with their dollars. How many do you think will take a flight from a pilot who's dead?
Only if you didn't read it.
Except I did. Posting wrong links then claiming "you didn't read" isn't an argument. It's dumbass. If you think the link says it, quot the part and say WHY you have that interpretation. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.
It would help if your posts actually made any sense. Who's product?
If it's Firefox then yeah sure, because the iPhone doesn't support flash and neither does android. And I don't think chrome makes it easy either.
So sure companies are free to ditch the tools that 95% of their customers use. Companies are also free you go out of business.
What is your point?
moral deficit
I think it's a quite common attitude that it's a moral deficit so they deserve it really. I mean they should just be stronger.
I am not likely to ever get addicted to gambling because I simply don't get any kind of rush from it. It's very easy to not be addicted to something which to me is a bit boring and expensive.
But there's no moral fortitude in me not gambling.
I've never understood why gambling is so much of a controlled substance here in the US.
Because it's as addicitve and damaging as some controlled substances are.
Humans are manipulatable monkeys for the most part. And gambling organisations have shown they have no qualms about using that to the maximum extent regardless of lives they destroyed. The law in this case doesn't recognise some idealised form of human that doesn't really exist, it actually recognises humans as they are.
Flash works, and implementation has been paid for. Unless you are willing to pay for new implementation, you don't get to tell people that they can't use their existing implementation "because reasons".
It's honestly baffling how many people are so ignorant of the most basic concepts of "budgeting" and "sunk costs". No wonder so many are living paycheck to paycheck.
You what? Why on earth would I care about some random person's sunk costs? That's their problem not mine. The major browser vendors and mobile platforms are telling people to stop using flash. They do not care enough about your sunk costs or budgets, and they don't have to because they are completely independent of you.
So, yes they DO get to tell you to stop using flash. And you have to suck it up.
That link does not support your claim.
Because that is how it's defined.
Really? Where?
The mechanism by which sound is processed is just completely different.
Yes, and?
made up stat
I'm just going to leave that there.
What on earth are you talking about? What multi-month warmed street war was this, and how was I involved?
Is it me or have the people ranting about SJWs got distinctly odder in this thread? They seem to me ranting strongly about events no one else can see.
Nothing you are saying had any relation to the topic of conversion.
You've also failed to explain how quoting a fact (slightly incorrectly) snot the French resistance is religious SJW bullshit.
Thing is we both know it isn't and we both know the reason you keep trying to obscure and keep abounding the original point is because you're incapable of every admitting fault. A conversation with you will never, ever be productive, but it is mightily entertaining!