Ya rly, try it, it's slow but the latest version works. Xubuntu and lightweight distros ship with abiword and gnumeric because they are lighter faster and so more appropriate, IIRC openoffice is just an apt-get away.
This very slashdot article is proof of the streisand effect working. But I basically agree that such effect is far from automatic. I have my small share of interesting ideas i posted that were removed and effectively lost.
Except rick astley's stuff. Seriously, media companies are very interested in web trend so it's likely they noticed the video when it got popular. Since they also sue people for unreasonable amount of money I think they are perfectly capable of using DMCA takedown to avoid eggs in the face.
sure, and "Cue a dozen people who claim OO is better because they're too luddite for the ribbon interface" isn't a strawman right ?
Because there is no way anybody can claim that OO is better for other reasons, e.g. because it's free from control of a monopolist corporation, runs under linux on inter ppc alpha and other archs, can work with the latest version on a 700mhz pIII with 256 megs if you really need it, has a document format which is standardized in less than 3000 pages and without stuffing the ISO board with your minions... LOL
> one where Jobs Judeo-Christian mores aren't pushed upon me.
App store follows judeo-christian mores? Cool! then if i resell warez apps, instead of suing the pants off me, jobs will give me the source code as in Luke 6:29.
what's wrong with a clay tablet, then? I tell you. CLI and tablets are less accessible than a html list in a web page. Captain obvious at work.
list >> presentation when it comes to browsing the content. presentation >> presentation accessible through google docs because the login procedure has no sense for stuff meant to be public.
Of course google chose google docs for a sound reason, which is increasing fidelization. They are not evil but this is not good either. Microsoft does that leveraging its market share, Apple does that with a shiny and controlled ecosystem, Google does that with features (most space and good search in a mailbox, fast browser, bandwidth efficient new formats).
And linux lacks a registry cleaner utility too. You might wonder why.
Really, should I even bother to look for removal tools when reinstalling aptosid from a usb live stick takes 4 minutes and gives me much more assurance that the system is clean? A dpkg get/setselections restores all other stuff I had installed and good luck for the malware to hide in the few text config file in/etc that I need to restore before being up and running again.
All of this is not linux gurus stuff it's in the installation manual of debian which i read sometime around 2002.
My desktop is linux-only, displaced first macosx, and later windows on intel, since the days of debian 2.4. But I am a geek so it doesn't count.
Now for a lil' askslashdot.
There's this demonstration with a hundred people people involved and local newspapers covering it. A small but unavoidable part of the demo involves using a webapp with a webcam. The webapp LAMP stack is neatly packaged in a virtualbox VM since the demo must perform with no guarantee of internet connection and my organization got a shiny new laptop with win7 preinstalled for the demo.
Is it advisable that I install a debian unstable variant called aptosid (it's my fave) on such that new hardware and use a bash script for the webcam, or that I keep the default desktop, and try the default apps shipped with the cam? I have only a couple days to test it all.
Well askslashdot time is over since I already chose the linux desktop path, demo already happened and went well:P
The main reason for the choice being that when win7 starts, the usual popup for upgrades/ AV notices begins and I feared something like that might have disrupted the demo and confuse the operator. Also, the bash script (a 2 liner actually) had an UI simplicity advantage over the full featured webcam app in win7.
Anyway my real question is: in the age of global communication how many dedicated people you need to keep something alive? do such people exist for desktop linux? Googling around and trying stuff out might give you the answer.
> America sucks. Where's my free copy of Office 2010?
Since the hate crime you committed against America is kind of grave, the free copy of Office 2010 is an insufficient punishment, I suggest they give you also free office 2007 and 2003 plus sources and the full ooxml specs.
> On the contrary, no one has a right to prevent someone else form adopting a child, provided the child wants to be adopted.
All who can direct the child to a potentially better situation have the right to prevent someone else from adopting the child. Because you put it in the opposite perspective, the one centering on adopters instead of the adopted. The adopted is not an object or a property. That was my reasoning anyway.
Except that my point put bluntly was: Being average as in the current culture- advertisement laden cliche' is an advantage, all other things being equal.
Your study is irrelevant in that context. A study countering my point would be asking a bunch of people: "I tell you one word, describe how you see it", the word being family, and the majority of people telling they see two dad or two moms.
BTW reread the "careful" wording of the study you cited.
The key of my reasoning was "all other things being equal"- goodness and capability for love and culture included. All other things being equal, a statistically mainstream family is better. A corollary is that in the situations where homosexuality is more mainstream those would be the ones to prefer.
As a guy who's going to go to church in a few hours, I'm perfectly fine with being married seen as a right. A priest might not want to bless gay unions or find it against his faith, and I'm fine with it too. But since marriage has implication on civil rights and status, no discrimination is acceptable on a political and social level. Religious leader should simply say, I don't care what laws say, marry other sex, and their followers should obey or protest *in the contest of their faith, not because religions must adapt to the times or other similar stupid reasoning*
BUT.
I strongly object to equating adoption to marriage. The latter is a right, the former is not. Nobody has right to adopt children. The child has the right to find the best situation in which to grow, that's about all. So all other things being equal it's better for a child to be raised in a heterosexual same-race rich family (rich unless the society is able to give a poor boy same opportunities. which happens rarely). Or it's better for a child to stay with an uncle living in a homosexual relationship, than with a couple of heterosexual strangers, if he prefers so.
You might read this thread again, instead. When one says something didn't happen because aristocracy abused their power, he does not imply that they abused or didn't abuse their power. If you bothered to read it well you would even see where I necessarily imply that aristocracy abuses their power eventually. I also have issues with the "modernity" of values that have names of greek origin.
Oh the french revolution. A perfect example of a new class that fight for supremacy over aristocracy. That was my point though, not yours. Since you bring up wikipedia, whose symbols are up there in the picture, between the angels with somewhat dark wings? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Declaration_des_Droits_de_lHomme.jpg
PS. Since you promised to STFU, anticipating your reactions as you read this, I further clarify that I believe that what's in the declaration of rights is of utmost moral and historical importance, the work of idealists. I also think that for powerful people such declarations are simply a bunch of paragraph to be enforced or ignored according to needs.
> That's the attitude unbelievers should learn from Muslims: if you stand for something right, do not be afraid of adversary consequences.
There probably are things to be learned from Muslims but your faith came some hundred years after Christians were eaten by lions in the circus, and surely before that other Believers (including those not wanting to believe in any God) sacrificed themselves for their cause.
Proof: if revolutions started because of aristocracy abuse there would have been one after roughly one generation of aristocrat rulers everywhere. That did not happen.
Um but apple plus ibm tried that in the post-system9 era and taligent tanked. They then plundered bsd and osx succeedeed. Then they closed darwin and gave a hell of a good argument to GPL advocates:D
all the other desktop OSes out there seem to be a rewrite of unix, vms/nt, beos.
> I know exactly where the file is, because I know how to right click and select "Open in windows explorer".
Except that it did not work, songs were not copied on any library. Under which conditions I dunno, likely they were listened from a CD or gotten in a usb key. Might happen to others? http://www.google.com/search?q=itunes+loosing+songs
> I really don't have much sympathy for people that hate something because they don't know anything about it.
I really love when people use the "linux defense" on apple software. I knew about Open in windows explorer - that one option is even fairly well put in the UI. Thanks anyway.
>...This all started because the OP said openmoko died because *we* didn't support it. That's just fucking bullshit,
I agree with you on that. Open stuff must first be adopted by geeks, and only later it may become palatable to the public.
Think about the inapplicability of logic conceived inside the universe to the universe itself without an act of faith in the absoluteness of such logic, then. It implies that the flying spaghetti monster cult makes less arbitrary assumptions than most atheists and philosophers.
LOL ITunes is easy? You think you have a song because it's listed and the file is who knows where. You have to search documentation to select what to sync on the ipod. Amarok has a few glitches with import/export of playlists IIRC, and it's not the super intuitive player either, but I'd take it over itunes any day if I owned an Ipod.
Also you incorrectly assume that I ascribe to poor consumer choices the failure of openmoko and similar open stuff. It seems not so. Pandora, the touchbook, and others seem to suffer from high demand and insufficient production for one reason or another. The N900 is probably less palatable for the carriers and devs because the user is unrestricted. The one laptop per child is another example where mismanagement is more to blame than lack of consumer demand.
I simply called BS on the argument that consumers decide.
I don't think they are after linux but after XP equipped old pcs, whose users are more likely to buy a new pc if they have issues with "health certificates".
> arms, culture, language are not rules that govern a society.
a thing I never implied. The theme was "things being abused".
And I guess that aristocracy wasn't fought because aristocrats abused their powers but instead cause new classes had acquired power but lacked proportional political representation. Else, as guys like Gaetano Mosca thought, an organized minority always prevails against a majority (that naturally defaults to a chaotic mass).
As for religion and philosophy, if the latter can't say much about religion without becoming one, which happens every time some "thinker" applies human logic to concepts that are not necessarily bound by it. If i define a god as trascendent, I can't apply to it the concept of "existing", "one", "father", "good" with safety that they make any sense outside the universe in which they are defined. Therefore whatever conclusions I come up with are tainted.
The fact that you talk about religion as being already abolished raises a flag, if anything we are going to understand better the concept of "being god" as our creative skills increase.
As for property, abolishing property requires control on the whole humanity to avoid acquisitions. Being owned to prevent owning. Unless you meant that people will be so morally advanced that no abolition will need to take place and property will become an outdated model on its own, which is nice if it's a free choice.
Slashdot Mirror
Ya rly, try it, it's slow but the latest version works. Xubuntu and lightweight distros ship with abiword and gnumeric because they are lighter faster and so more appropriate, IIRC openoffice is just an apt-get away.
This very slashdot article is proof of the streisand effect working. But I basically agree that such effect is far from automatic. I have my small share of interesting ideas i posted that were removed and effectively lost.
Except rick astley's stuff.
Seriously, media companies are very interested in web trend so it's likely they noticed the video when it got popular. Since they also sue people for unreasonable amount of money I think they are perfectly capable of using DMCA takedown to avoid eggs in the face.
sure, and "Cue a dozen people who claim OO is better because they're too luddite for the ribbon interface" isn't a strawman right ?
Because there is no way anybody can claim that OO is better for other reasons, e.g. because it's free from control of a monopolist corporation, runs under linux on inter ppc alpha and other archs, can work with the latest version on a 700mhz pIII with 256 megs if you really need it, has a document format which is standardized in less than 3000 pages and without stuffing the ISO board with your minions... LOL
> one where Jobs Judeo-Christian mores aren't pushed upon me.
App store follows judeo-christian mores?
Cool! then if i resell warez apps, instead of suing the pants off me, jobs will give me the source code as in Luke 6:29.
Windows apologists kept repeating the linux is too different mantra for years now they gotta defend the ribbon. Yay! karma exists.
what's wrong with a clay tablet, then? I tell you. CLI and tablets are less accessible than a html list in a web page. Captain obvious at work.
list >> presentation when it comes to browsing the content.
presentation >> presentation accessible through google docs because the login procedure has no sense for stuff meant to be public.
Of course google chose google docs for a sound reason, which is increasing fidelization. They are not evil but this is not good either. Microsoft does that leveraging its market share, Apple does that with a shiny and controlled ecosystem, Google does that with features (most space and good search in a mailbox, fast browser, bandwidth efficient new formats).
And linux lacks a registry cleaner utility too. You might wonder why.
Really, should I even bother to look for removal tools when reinstalling aptosid from a usb live stick takes 4 minutes and gives me much more assurance that the system is clean? A dpkg get/setselections restores all other stuff I had installed and good luck for the malware to hide in the few text config file in /etc that I need to restore before being up and running again.
All of this is not linux gurus stuff it's in the installation manual of debian which i read sometime around 2002.
My desktop is linux-only, displaced first macosx, and later windows on intel, since the days of debian 2.4. But I am a geek so it doesn't count.
Now for a lil' askslashdot.
There's this demonstration with a hundred people people involved and local newspapers covering it.
A small but unavoidable part of the demo involves using a webapp with a webcam. The webapp LAMP stack is neatly packaged in a virtualbox VM since the demo must perform with no guarantee of internet connection and my organization got a shiny new laptop with win7 preinstalled for the demo.
Is it advisable that I install a debian unstable variant called aptosid (it's my fave) on such that new hardware and use a bash script for the webcam, or that I keep the default desktop, and try the default apps shipped with the cam? I have only a couple days to test it all.
Well askslashdot time is over since I already chose the linux desktop path, demo already happened and went well :P
The main reason for the choice being that when win7 starts, the usual popup for upgrades/ AV notices begins and I feared something like that might have disrupted the demo and confuse the operator. Also, the bash script (a 2 liner actually) had an UI simplicity advantage over the full featured webcam app in win7.
Anyway my real question is: in the age of global communication how many dedicated people you need to keep something alive? do such people exist for desktop linux? Googling around and trying stuff out might give you the answer.
> America sucks. Where's my free copy of Office 2010?
Since the hate crime you committed against America is kind of grave, the free copy of Office 2010 is an insufficient punishment, I suggest they give you also free office 2007 and 2003 plus sources and the full ooxml specs.
> On the contrary, no one has a right to prevent someone else form adopting a child, provided the child wants to be adopted.
All who can direct the child to a potentially better situation have the right to prevent someone else from adopting the child. Because you put it in the opposite perspective, the one centering on adopters instead of the adopted. The adopted is not an object or a property. That was my reasoning anyway.
Except that my point put bluntly was: Being average as in the current culture- advertisement laden cliche' is an advantage, all other things being equal.
Your study is irrelevant in that context. A study countering my point would be asking a bunch of people: "I tell you one word, describe how you see it", the word being family, and the majority of people telling they see two dad or two moms.
BTW reread the "careful" wording of the study you cited.
The key of my reasoning was "all other things being equal"- goodness and capability for love and culture included. All other things being equal, a statistically mainstream family is better. A corollary is that in the situations where homosexuality is more mainstream those would be the ones to prefer.
As a guy who's going to go to church in a few hours, I'm perfectly fine with being married seen as a right. A priest might not want to bless gay unions or find it against his faith, and I'm fine with it too. But since marriage has implication on civil rights and status, no discrimination is acceptable on a political and social level. Religious leader should simply say, I don't care what laws say, marry other sex, and their followers should obey or protest *in the contest of their faith, not because religions must adapt to the times or other similar stupid reasoning*
BUT.
I strongly object to equating adoption to marriage. The latter is a right, the former is not. Nobody has right to adopt children. The child has the right to find the best situation in which to grow, that's about all. So all other things being equal it's better for a child to be raised in a heterosexual same-race rich family (rich unless the society is able to give a poor boy same opportunities. which happens rarely). Or it's better for a child to stay with an uncle living in a homosexual relationship, than with a couple of heterosexual strangers, if he prefers so.
You might read this thread again, instead.
When one says something didn't happen because aristocracy abused their power, he does not imply that they abused or didn't abuse their power. If you bothered to read it well you would even see where I necessarily imply that aristocracy abuses their power eventually.
I also have issues with the "modernity" of values that have names of greek origin.
Oh the french revolution. A perfect example of a new class that fight for supremacy over aristocracy. That was my point though, not yours. Since you bring up wikipedia, whose symbols are up there in the picture, between the angels with somewhat dark wings?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Declaration_des_Droits_de_lHomme.jpg
PS. Since you promised to STFU, anticipating your reactions as you read this, I further clarify that I believe that what's in the declaration of rights is of utmost moral and historical importance, the work of idealists. I also think that for powerful people such declarations are simply a bunch of paragraph to be enforced or ignored according to needs.
> That's the attitude unbelievers should learn from Muslims: if you stand for something right, do not be afraid of adversary consequences.
There probably are things to be learned from Muslims but your faith came some hundred years after Christians were eaten by lions in the circus, and surely before that other Believers (including those not wanting to believe in any God) sacrificed themselves for their cause.
Modding your lesson -1 redundant :D
They once did delay releasing the source, anyway. I'm glad they did keep it open though.
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/17/1453206
Proof: if revolutions started because of aristocracy abuse there would have been one after roughly one generation of aristocrat rulers everywhere. That did not happen.
Maybe you have problem parsing my grammar.
Um but apple plus ibm tried that in the post-system9 era and taligent tanked. They then plundered bsd and osx succeedeed. Then they closed darwin and gave a hell of a good argument to GPL advocates :D
all the other desktop OSes out there seem to be a rewrite of unix, vms/nt, beos.
> I know exactly where the file is, because I know how to right click and select "Open in windows explorer".
Except that it did not work, songs were not copied on any library. Under which conditions I dunno, likely they were listened from a CD or gotten in a usb key. Might happen to others? http://www.google.com/search?q=itunes+loosing+songs
> I really don't have much sympathy for people that hate something because they don't know anything about it.
I really love when people use the "linux defense" on apple software. I knew about Open in windows explorer - that one option is even fairly well put in the UI. Thanks anyway.
> ...This all started because the OP said openmoko died because *we* didn't support it. That's just fucking bullshit,
I agree with you on that. Open stuff must first be adopted by geeks, and only later it may become palatable to the public.
Think about the inapplicability of logic conceived inside the universe to the universe itself without an act of faith in the absoluteness of such logic, then.
It implies that the flying spaghetti monster cult makes less arbitrary assumptions than most atheists and philosophers.
LOL ITunes is easy? You think you have a song because it's listed and the file is who knows where. You have to search documentation to select what to sync on the ipod. Amarok has a few glitches with import/export of playlists IIRC, and it's not the super intuitive player either, but I'd take it over itunes any day if I owned an Ipod.
Also you incorrectly assume that I ascribe to poor consumer choices the failure of openmoko and similar open stuff. It seems not so. Pandora, the touchbook, and others seem to suffer from high demand and insufficient production for one reason or another. The N900 is probably less palatable for the carriers and devs because the user is unrestricted. The one laptop per child is another example where mismanagement is more to blame than lack of consumer demand.
I simply called BS on the argument that consumers decide.
I don't think they are after linux but after XP equipped old pcs, whose users are more likely to buy a new pc if they have issues with "health certificates".
> arms, culture, language are not rules that govern a society.
a thing I never implied. The theme was "things being abused".
And I guess that aristocracy wasn't fought because aristocrats abused their powers but instead cause new classes had acquired power but lacked proportional political representation. Else, as guys like Gaetano Mosca thought, an organized minority always prevails against a majority (that naturally defaults to a chaotic mass).
As for religion and philosophy, if the latter can't say much about religion without becoming one, which happens every time some "thinker" applies human logic to concepts that are not necessarily bound by it.
If i define a god as trascendent, I can't apply to it the concept of "existing", "one", "father", "good" with safety that they make any sense outside the universe in which they are defined. Therefore whatever conclusions I come up with are tainted.
The fact that you talk about religion as being already abolished raises a flag, if anything we are going to understand better the concept of "being god" as our creative skills increase.
As for property, abolishing property requires control on the whole humanity to avoid acquisitions. Being owned to prevent owning. Unless you meant that people will be so morally advanced that no abolition will need to take place and property will become an outdated model on its own, which is nice if it's a free choice.