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Careful What You Post, the FBI Has More of These
jamie writes "A comment posted to a website got its author's *friend's* car an unwanted aftermarket addon. The Orion Guardian ST820, a GPS tracking device, was attached to the underside of the car by the FBI. No warrant required. The bugged friend, a college student studying marketing, was apparently under suspicion because he's half-Egyptian. As Bruce Schneier says, 'If they're doing this to someone so tangentially connected to a vaguely bothersome post on an obscure blog, just how many of us have tracking devices on our cars right now ...' The ACLU is investigating." This follows up on our earlier mention of the same student, who turned the tracking device over to the FBI.
and get it to the supreme court. if they say this is legal, burn it down. simple really.
Post to this thread, and be the first person on your block to receive a free GPS tracking device! (The device will be mounted under your car, hidden. Peel slowly, and see!)
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
The post was on reddit so was hardly an obscure blog.
Don't you hate pants?
--alop
Just because I criticize the US government's homeland policies doesn't mean... hey, what's this big red blinking thing on the underside of my laptop?
4chan / Anon should start a campaign called "operation fearstorm" in which local crimestoppers and FBI tip lines are flooded with anonymous terrorism and pedophile suspicions of random citizens, or perhaps the families of law enforcement, local politicians, and the clergy.
Mainstream media coverage of the fiasco will show just how stupid and bust-desperate the Feds are. And, of course, the most dangerous are the informants and provocateurs working for the feds. They should be rounded up and beaten brutally.
This makes me want to screw with them. Get their attention - get a tracker installed. Find the tracking device, duplicate it and its signal and start sticking them on strange things like freight trains, ships, delivery trucks, send one to space on a weather balloon ...
I wonder what RF they use. If it's cellular that could be a problem. But also not a particularly reliable situation for the FBI.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
If you comment here you will be tagged and tracked. True story.
.. and most of my friends do not care about this. It's part of the religion to care less about possible adversities as a result of your good action.
Albanian emigrant - one of those that were trapped by FBI via Egyptian scumbag into the army base plot - famously said to that informant at some point (pre-arrest, of course): "I do not care if you work for FBI, I will do what I have to do". (something to that avail).
That's the attitude unbelievers should learn from Muslims: if you stand for something right, do not be afraid of adversary consequences.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Anyone else tempted to try and drive a route that spells "I know you're watching" when seen on a map?
I really wish that the first thing he had done upon learning of the tracking device was contact the ACLU. I find this so disconcerting. I hope someone stands up to this type of government tracking so we can get some momentum going to protect our civil liberties.
Is just one more reason for me not to own a car. Not that I'd be the one getting a gps attached to it if I did...
Well, this article doesn't "follow up" on jack. It's just less informative and more inflammatory than the original.
He wasn't being tracked becasue of a blog post at all. His father was a notable political figure, and he travels and sends money to suspicious locations. From the article linked on the original slashdot story:
Alexa has Reddit at #239...Schneier at #36148. Just for the record.
0 = 1 + e^(Alt something)
One interesting thing from TFA is that newer GPS trackers are installed under the bonnet, and powered by the car battery. I can sort of see how one might say you can track cars without a warrant using magnetic, battery powered GPS trackers (like the one in the article), but how on earth can breaking into the car not require a warrant?
How much do the new ones weigh, and would the scales used to weigh trucks (many of which are available for weighing cars) detect the difference? That one in the first story about this, allegedly an old model, looked heavy enough that they'd catch it, but if they've got something that weighs just a couple of ounces, maybe not. Of course, to do this, you would have to be absolutely meticulous about cleaning and emptying the car before each weigh-in, and you'd always need the same equipment in and on the car as you had on your baseline.
If the government has a warrant to track your vehicle with a GPS device, I'm fine with them tracking it.
Some caveats.
1) They should _not_ be allowed onto private property to install said devices. That's a slippery slope. If your property is not private, then what is? If I'm on my driveway, apparently it's fair game "because the UPS driver can walk on it". But what if you park in the yard because too many cars are in the driveway? What if you park around back? What if you park in a car port? What if it's in the garage but the door is open enough to get in? What if... No. Follow me and tag my car when it's in a public place, again, if you have a warrant to do so.
2) If I find a device on my car and I don't know you put it there. It's mine, period. Now, if you tell me its there and that's its government property and I'm legally obligated to leave it there, fine. I can rent a car (I guess that's why they don't tell you). But you can't expect me to just inherently know that the device isn't mine when I had no idea you put it there without my knowledge. For all I know it's a part of the car right out of the factory.
This BS with agents/contractors going onto private property installing devices and then threatening you when you find it... It has to stop.
Given that the 7th and 9th Circuits have OK'd warrantless tracking, I am unsure how quickly the Supreme Court would grant cert on this issue. And given the current members of the Court, I might not like their decision.
If they're doing this to someone so tangentially connected to a vaguely bothersome post on an obscure blog,...
Um, no not really. It' looks as if there's more to it ...
From the Wired article:
Afifi’s father, Aladdin Afifi, was a U.S. citizen and former president of the Muslim Community Association here, before his family moved to Egypt in 2003. Yasir Afifi returned to the United States alone in 2008, while his father and brothers stayed in Egypt, to further his education he said. He knows he’s on a federal watchlist and is regularly taken aside at airports for secondary screening.
So, this "Muslim Community Association" could be tied somehow (maybe in the FBI's imagination) to terrorism or funding of terrorism and maybe the sending money overseas is somehow another red flag by the Feds which warrants the extra surveillance. The kid is being watched anyway and maybe the blog post got the tracking on his car - or not.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
I think they're tracking him more because of his Muslim and foreign influences than because of any blog post. Of course the blog does reveal a bit about that kind of planning.
I read a series of the attached articles. A seperate instance upon which the apparent ruling that allows this particular abuse of power said: "On two occasions, agents sneaked into his driveway before dawn to affix the tracking devices to the undercarriage of his Jeep." Can't you at the very least say that this constitutes trespassing or illegal search? I'm shocked that this doesn't violate constitutionally granted freedoms (privacy, illegal search, etc.)
after you have parked it in Times Square
and then tell them that you have found a blackbox with a red flashing light and an antenna clamped under your car, and see what happens
you wouldnt, as an observant patriotic citizen want to take any chances would you ?
let that happen a few times and the FBI responsible for causing the resulting clusterfuck will be spanked before they know whats hit them
Here is one other advantage of using a motorcycle as your primary means of transportation. It's a lot harder to hide anything on a motorcycle than it is to hide something on a car.
Motorcycles, Robots, Space Gossip and More!
begin the 'no carrier' FBI jokes in 3...2...#########$$NO CARRIER
Good people go to bed earlier.
Search your car for the tracking unit. Remove it and try and be creative by placing it on a taxi or other highly mobile vehicle. I do wonder how long it would take the spooks to figure out they were accumulating data on the wrong car.
Just how important to national security is logging my trips to Starbucks? This is paranoid data mining hoping to find a pattern. One problem, patterns happen in life as well as nature. You might as well go hunting cloud animals cause gee they look like animals. Already people have been harassed because their car happened to get parked outside several hotspots. Now they weren't actually headed to those addresses but the location set off warnings. It's very similar to when I lived in LA. The police would pull you over for any reason they could make up just to search your car. I had my car searched numerous times without ever receiving a ticket and without a single warrant. It's trolling and they know every once in a while they'll get lucky.
After all, there's now going to be a big market for detectors and GPS spoofing devices ("Hey, this guy just teleported to Alaska!"). I need one for testing.
... to use public transportation. Go green!
Ubuntu on primary work desktop since Dapper Drake (2006).
The link can be searched on Google: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599201315000
Here is the text from when it was active as the best I can do:
The Government's New Right to Track Your Every Move With GPS Government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of everywhere you go. This doesn't violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway - and no reasonable expectation that the government isn't tracking your movements. That is the bizarre - and scary - rule that now applies in California and eight other Western states. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which covers this vast jurisdiction, recently decided the government can monitor you in this way virtually anytime it wants - with no need for a search warrant. (See a TIME photoessay on Cannabis Culture.) It is a dangerous decision - one that, as the dissenting judges warned, could turn America into the sort of totalitarian state imagined by George Orwell. It is particularly offensive because the judges added insult to injury with some shocking class bias: the little personal privacy that still exists, the court suggested, should belong mainly to the rich. This case began in 2007, when Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) agents decided to monitor Juan Pineda-Moreno, an Oregon resident who they suspected was growing marijuana. They snuck onto his property in the middle of the night and found his Jeep in his driveway, a few feet from his trailer home. Then they attached a GPS tracking device to the vehicle's underside. After Pineda-Moreno challenged the DEA's actions, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit ruled in January that it was all perfectly legal. More disturbingly, a larger group of judges on the circuit, who were subsequently asked to reconsider the ruling, decided this month to let it stand. (Pineda-Moreno has pleaded guilty conditionally to conspiracy to manufacture marijuana and manufacturing marijuana while appealing the denial of his motion to suppress evidence obtained with the help of GPS.) In fact, the government violated Pineda-Moreno's privacy rights in two different ways. For starters, the invasion of his driveway was wrong. The courts have long held that people have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their homes and in the "curtilage," a fancy legal term for the area around the home. The government's intrusion on property just a few feet away was clearly in this zone of privacy. The judges veered into offensiveness when they explained why Pineda-Moreno's driveway was not private. It was open to strangers, they said, such as delivery people and neighborhood children, who could wander across it uninvited. (See the misadventures of the CIA.) Chief Judge Alex Kozinski, who dissented from this month's decision refusing to reconsider the case, pointed out whose homes are not open to strangers: rich people's. The court's ruling, he said, means that people who protect their homes with electric gates, fences and security booths have a large protected zone of privacy around their homes. People who cannot afford such barriers have to put up with the government sneaking around at night. Judge Kozinski is a leading conservative, appointed by President Ronald Reagan, but in his dissent he came across as a raging liberal. "There's been much talk about diversity on the bench, but there's one kind of diversity that doesn't exist," he wrote. "No truly poor people are appointed as federal judges, or as state judges for that matter." The judges in the majority, he charged, were guilty of "cultural elitism."
I don't know how well this stands, but hey, it's something!
I want a GPS on my unicycle, and the logs to show how many miles I've ridden it.
I found one of those electronic thingeys in my car, with lots of wires plugged into it, so I ripped the sucker out. Then, according to my mechanic, someone stole my ECU, which cost me $300 to replace. And those damn FBI agents also snuck another one of those devices into my car. Talk about your bad luck. I'm off to get rid of this new one, so wish me luck.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
'Castle doctrine' does not entitle you to just go out and shoot people (particularly government agents lawfully doing their job) in your driveway because they are under your car. You can go out with a gun and tell them to get off your property, but unless they attempt to fight back or chase you into your house, you're the one breaking the law, not them. Anyone who has taken a CCW class knows this. Here is part of the Castle Doctrine page on Wikipedia: "----Each state differs with respect to the specific instances in which the Castle Doctrine can be invoked, and what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance (if any) is required before deadly force can be used. -----In general, one (sometimes more) of a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine: ----An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied home, business or car. ----The intruder must be acting illegally--e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to attack officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties"
Sticking one of those to my motorcycle without me noticing. :D
Have you thought about hiding one inside the handlebar tube? How about way up under the seat? There are many spots to hide bugs on a bicycle, especially if you aren't looking for one.
I would love to find one of these on my car. My response would be to not blog or talk about it, and sell it. Let the FBI try to prove that it didn't just fall off.
will car mechanics be gagged by the FBI from telling customers they found an odd box or two that don't belong?
BTW, this particular device is a few generations out of date; now the Great Protectors of Our Rights have much tinier Boxes of Freedom that are surreptitiously powered via the cars' battery cable.
I am currently seeking an IT position, and have over 35 years experience in Wintel servers, clients, and especially automated rollouts, OS, and application customization. Full resume upon request.
HEX
Muslim Bomb Cell Biological Illuminati President Obama Genius Terrorist Ground Future Star 911 Zero Alien Black Helicopter Tracking Bazinga
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
I haven't owned a car in 16 years. Unless they have a way to attach a tracking device to one of my bicycles where it is hidden from view, I wish them luck. ;-)
No really! I'm like totally subversive and stuff; put one on _my_ car!
(Because I'm going to mail that puppy back and forth across the US so many times it'll make your little database spin.)
Sure, it may be a rubber-stamp, but it makes it official. It's a mother-may-I that puts them on the books as having done the deed. It means that when Agent Alice gets a divorce, there's evidence that she abused her power when she tracked her husband. Remove the formality, and you may as well have wholesale tracking of every car and citizen. But it's worse then a GPS in every car, because this way they only target who they don't like, and politicians', CEOs', lobbiests', and their own cars are tracker free.
A meaningful warrant system would undoubtedly be best, and the minimum for being constitutional, but requiring rubber-stamp warrants is still better then needing nothing at all.
Religious extremism is merely a tiny subset in the world of extremism. What all extremists have in common is that they employ an initiation of physical force (coercion, not persuasion) as a means to their end. Indeed, it isn't their ideology or motive that makes them evil; it is precisely the initiation of force (or threat thereof). It is the initiation of force itself that is extreme, and the acute observer will realize that the label "extremist" applies to anyone who resorts to coercion as a means to an end, including schoolyard bullies, thiefs, and (get ready for this) governments.
Many people are fond of claiming that money is the "root of all evil". On the contrary, it is coercion which is the root of all evil, because coercion is the one absolute prerequisite of all forms of injustice.
What I want to know is if I find a device attached to my car, can I sell it on eBay?
What can they charge me with if I put it on someone else's car?
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
That means they're stealing my hard-earned electricity!
now that's what's known as putting words in the horse's mouth (to mix some metaphors). The person writing the summary has no idea why the FBI bugged the man.
"Afifi's father, Aladdin Afifi, was a U.S. citizen and former president of the Muslim Community Association here, before his family moved to Egypt in 2003". The student isn't just some random "20-year-old American citizen who has done nothing more than being half-Egyptian", this kid is "the son of an Islamic-American community leader who died a year ago in Egypt".
I love how both Slashdot articles leaves this information out of their summaries and focuses on the rights issue. Of course the FBI wants to keep track of him. He obviously qualifies as a person of interest to them, if not for terrorism purposes, then as a potential target of terrorism (foreign or domestic).
If they install a GPS tracker that leaches off your battery, could you not charge them with theft of electricity (like the hackers in Clifford Stoll's "The Cuckoo's Egg" that are charged with stealing electricity?
If I find one of those devices, I'll drive my car to a bus or train station and attach the friggin' thing to anything that can travel far... An airplane would raise a lot of suspicions, but the effect would be hilarious: "What do you mean 'He's driving on Lake Ontario'?".
I rarely respond to comments. Also, don't ask for clarifications: a brain and Google are faster, believe me!
anything interesting going on in your life.
Why not just track people with their GPS-enabled cell phones? Might be a lot less hassle and you even get their actual conversations!
I'm just sayin'....
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
So the Ninth Circuit court says it is perfectly okay to place the item without a warrant... Anyone have a citation of law or precedent that "you don't automatically own things that others have stuck to your property and left, without informing you?" If someone vandalizes your car by placing a sticker on it, regardless of that person's job, that sticker belongs to you. You can remove it, add crap to it, destroy it, or peel it off carefully and sell it on ebay. The same should apply to magnetic items, lest everyone get stuck with a Jesus Fish that the vandal can demand back.
Placing it without warrant is unethical; demanding it back is more unethical, and another matter entirely.
I'd bet that the FBI has no idea why the FBI bugged the man, except that some lazy SAC got a boxful and decided to put them on the car of anyone with brown skin or a middle-eastern name.
Remember, the burden of proof for why this tracking device was placed is always on the authorities who placed it. I really don't think you want a situation where someone has to explain why they should not have tracking devices on their car.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I normally don't respond to Anonymous Jackoffs, but do you know anything about the Muslim Community Association? They're the largest Muslim community group in the US and there has never been anything that shows they have any ties to any terrorist or extremist groups. The MCA are not fundamentalists, they're not extremists. Until you're ready to have surveillance on every person who listens to Glenn Beck, you need to re-think your notion that every Muslim in the US should have trackers placed on their cars.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Thus far as reported these people are innocent and that it was perhaps a posting to a website or other innocent thing that they did so it's unreasonable for the FBI to take any interest into these people.
Really?
Like the FBI has broadcast to the public all the information they know about these people and what their connections are which has gained them interest by the FBI.
What's the chances that the folks be watched when confronted or approached by the media are going to loudly proclaim something to the effect "DIE AMERICANS! The streets will flow with the blood of the ... " .. you get my point. Not likely.
So I appreciate that one is innocent until proven guilty but I think you also have to acknowledge that certainly 3 letter organizations are going to follow leads and check into people to keep the country safe. That's their job. It's not necessarily evil nor is necessarily good either but that's how these things work in this day and age of bat-shit crazy terrorism.
How can the GPS work under a car? I'd think with all that metal on top, the GPS signal would be pretty attenuated.
Maybe if it was near the edge of the bottom of the car with an antenna that gets a sideview, even then I'm not sure it would see enough sats to get a fix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjCdznA4sgY
0:50
And if the United States government decidedes to stick a tracking device up your ass, you say Thank you and God Bless America!
X-D
Red Rules!
Is it wrong that instead of being outraged that civil liberties were violated, I just wanted to know how the tracking device worked? Does the FBI plant it and collect it later, or does it transmit position information? (Can I build a little Faraday cage for it when I find one on my car?)
Extremist Christians blew up a Planned Parenthood in California last month even though it is clearly illegal.
Can anyone corroborate this anecdote? Being naturally skeptical of things I read on the internet, I tried to find this on Google news and the closest thing I found was this story about a Planned Parenthood official who put an egg timer in a trash can and called in a hoax bomb threat. I have a feeling I would have heard about a legitimate terrorist action against an abortion clinic in the US.
I assumed it went without saying that coercion employed in self-defense is moral and just. This is simply a result of human evolution. Just as we know by instinct that the initiation of force is unjust, we know that force in self-defense is moral and just.
The device shown has the FCC ID number "O9EQ2438F-M" on the outside of the box, as required by law. FCC ID numbers can be looked up in the FCC database, where details of the device and pictures of the electronics are available. It's a cell phone module, of course. The FCC was told it was for "stolen currency tracking". The maker was Wavecom, since acquired by Sierra Wireless. The unit dates from 2005.
That's just a standard RF module. That application covers the addition of a spread-spectrum module to upgrade the cell access to support PCS networks. The base device, according to the FCC application, is FCC ID NBI-MTAG216. This is more interesting. It's a "Trac Pak V", from "Spectrum Management LLC" of Carrolton, TX.
When the spread-spectrum module was added, the company issued a press release about it. "Spectrum Management, L.L.C., a global provider of innovative physical and electronic security products which include its proprietary asset tracking and management systems, announced today the completion of its TracPac CS Tag and the development of an all-new web-based tracking and location system. Spectrum has combined technologies with Wavecom, a leading provider of pre-packaged wireless communications solutions for automotive, industrial and mobile professional applications, with a wide range of fully integrated modules and modems. The new Tag design pairs Wavecom's Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) module with GPSOne, and Spectrum's proprietary VHF homing technology to provide a wide range of Location Based Services (LBS). Spectrum Management expects to offer similar tracking and location services on Global System for Mobile (GSM) communications by simply substituting Wavecom's plug-in compatible GSM module."
Spectrum Management's predecessor company was ProNet, which was a public company in the 1990s. They were acquired by Metrocall, and the tracking business was split off as Electronic Tracking Systems. They started as a pager company, but branched out into tracking devices. From their SEC filing: "In 1988, the Company began to apply advanced wireless technology to the security business by marketing radio-activated electronic tracking systems to financial institutions. At December 31, 1996, the Company's security systems consisted of 29,501 miniature radio transmitters, or "TracPacs," in service." Most of these were leased to banks, and attached to items of value or hidden in bundles of currency. The 1990s model was a pre-GPS technology; they had to get local cops to install receivers (like LoJack does) for this to work. So it only worked in a few markets, and they were having trouble expanding, from their SEC filings. The newer technology doesn't have that limitation.
So it's a stock piece of law enforcement equipment, circa 2005.
I'm going to blow up your pants with a bomb on 9/11 infidel!
Yet another reason not to have a car.
Tracking someone on foot and through public transit is much more difficult. (If you pay cash. But even if you don't it would require a warrant to get the transit agency to release your travel data.)
Good luck! I'm behind 7 firewalls!
gotta love the patriot act; where the FBI can bug you and monitor your activities without the requirement of a warrant. (You know, that whole thing of checks 'n balances we were taught in grade school.)
What a farse.
You would have to know you are being tracked, to bother looking under your car, as most do not inspect every inch each time before they get inside their car....you could I guess if really paranoid, and have something to hide, use a bug tracker device, to locate bugs and transmitting devices on the car...i think its about 500$ or so...
perhaps the thing to do is to remove it and place it in/on a government (of any jurisdiction) car, or on a garbage truck, or any place that will provide deception. Or maybe just put a sticker on it that says "FBI, Washington DC" and place it in a mail collection box. Or maybe you could remove the battery and leave it in/on your car. There's lots of possibilities. Use your imagination.
1) get an inductive amplifier, the kind used for tracing telephone and communications wiring. Most electronic devices, FBI GPS tracking devices included, emit a wide range of radio noise, like when you try and put an AM radio near your 'puter.
2) wave the inductive amp around underneath your vehicle, you may find some spots normally emitting radio noise, like the car's clock or other always connected electronics gear like sweet free GPS devices and/or James Bond remote control and/or destruct systems, depending on your personal threat level.
3) ???
4) profit
I've yet to become paranoid enough to break out mine and try it. I'm more concerned about tree droppings on my paint job. Good luck, Citizens!
This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
Roberts, Alito, and Thomas would vote in favor of allowing the FBI to retain the authority. Scalia and Kennedy would be swing votes here, but I suspect they'd swing rightward on this.
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Transmitter detectors should be popular among some some ethnic groups.
A mirror on a stick would go a long way on the cheap.
It may be a subset, but I wouldn't think it's tiny.
Extremists are necessarily people of deep beliefs, and that's exactly what you need to be religious. Given the amount of people doing proselytism, it's probable that every people with a mindset that accepts a deep belief will have met religious preachers of many sects, one of which will influence him.
I wonder how much one would go for on eBay? Hmmm...
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I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
I've for a while now predicted what the next terrorist attack will look like... Terrorists don't send a single person to a single mall and explode on a random day. They send 50 terrorists to 50 malls, to the food court - at lunch time, on the saturday before Christmas - and then they blow up simultaneously. How do you stop that from happening? I hate the idea of the FBI tracking people too - but the harsh reality is, that's the only way to stop my prediction from becoming a reality.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If you have done nothing wrong, you got nothing to hide!
If you look into this more, the guy's Father was some muslim community leader in the US. His whole family moved back to Egypt where his Father was killed. He moved back to America alone, the rest of his family stayed there. And after what his friend posted, I'm sure you could easily get a warrant to track him for a little while. Some of his comments in the other article made him seem kind of like a dick too. I think he's just trying to play victim here. I'm glad they were watching him for a bit.
Will the voltage differential show up on my in car OBD-II monitor?
Warning, do not detach device! Would you be interested in learning more about our employee benefits?
Put me on your list and bug my car. I'd really like to play around with one of your GPS devices. Maybe i'll even get my 15 minutes of fame. BTW I'm 100percent sure i'm related to Osama Bin Laden through Adam and Eve.
> I hate the idea of the FBI tracking people too - but the harsh reality is,
> that's the only way to stop my prediction from becoming a reality.
There's absolutely no way for the FBI to stop all stupid movieplots like yours from happening.
What IS stopping those from happening more frequently than average car accidents is that there are not enough pissed off crazy people to execute those plans.
I'm pretty sure that at least 25% of the slashdotters could come up with a plan to cause maximum harm while "sacrificing" themselves.
However, luckily for the rest of us, nearly nobody is that crazy. Though we're working on pissing off a significant percentage of the planets inhabitants to become like that...
This is why I get annoyed at the liberals who think we need to pay more taxes. The layoff of police officers show how personal freedoms are up when police forces are downsized.
Of course, prime tv seems to be police PR gone crazy, seems like 60-70% of new shows are cop or legal shows.
Crazy.
What... the... fuck...
How can anyone with an above room temperature IQ say "sure, the founding fathers fully intended to secure the right of armed revolution, but they'd be shocked---SHOCKED--at the idea that someone would claim a right on the basis of the 2nd amendment to carry a 9mm handgun in public."
So, let me get this straight. The founding fathers fully intended for people to be able to form a militia--which necessitates private citizens owning military-grade hardware--but never intended the same amendment to cover carrying a civilian-grade weapon by law-abiding citizens?
That's like arguing that the founding fathers never intended for the first amendment to protect what you write down in a notebook because it says "freedom of the press," not "freedom of the notepad" (which is an inferior means of putting your speech to paper for publication).
Because individual rights mean squat these days?
Maybe you should consider incorporation, citizen.
All of the rights, none of the responsibilities! Get out of jury duty!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Comment removed based on user account deletion
COPS are going to keep doing the same thing and presuming the law interpreted by the oracle Judges, and endure the hatred of those around them. The purpose of the law as encompassed by COPS however is not meant to solve anything: it's all to maintane the dispute so it can come before one of their Judges in hopes that the cost of resolving it is highly punitive so more agencies of that law can spout about how "productive" and "fruitful" their law has become in spreading their jurisdiction and revenue.
COPS assume they are doing well, that there is a higher cause to all the revenue in ensuring people live smarter and healthier, because we all know the stupidist politicians have been caught reverberating the phrase "98% of the world needs to be told what to do" when the camera is still on. COPS will just endure their pain, most of them will become cocky and malicious in finding ways to explot their association to the most effect and political unrest to indoctrinate and document as many people into their sorting chambers to be straitened-out by the Judges (that's slant-talk for "threatened" to be put in a cell unto you unconditionally agree). You'll eventually find-out that the COPS are just blind masters, having no knowledge of the law being of limited liability of commercial matters and they will never comprehend this because they have no skill or trade worthy to enlighten their comprehension of the purpose of the law other than quickly *apply* it onto everyone else in non-harmful and non-aggrivated activities.
It's as though COPS are only enforcing policies...
Funny how Christians are commanded by a prophet of God to love their neighbor as theirselves, so they ask what a neighbor is good to be done to them, whereas COPS and muslims already think to know what is good for their neighbor and with predictable Sato-Masochist precision they literally will DO unto their NEIGHBOR as they would have DONE unto THEIRSELF.
Hitler himself was 1/4 Jewish from the Rothschild family estate, 1/2 German, 1/4 Sudanese African.
All of the counselling/cabinette chosen by Adolf Hitler were Catholic Jews, with exception to Himmler and Goebels.
All the commanding-officer positions of the Germany Army were all hand-picked through the same cabinet.
The most-popular propoganda wallpaper of the ideal Army soldier throughout that period was a Blue-eyed Blonde half-jew half-German.
There were plenty of "Aryan" German Army there were verry melanized (dark-skin) of more India/hindus descent.
Tracing some documents linked to Winston Churchilll, Hitler was employed by the Crown of England.
It was said 3 million Jews were killed, in concentetration camps and gas chambers designed after when Hitler visitted the United States to view Ford Motors' assembly line and the US Prison system.
None ever talk about how over 6 million civilian non-armed authentic uninvolved original German people were migrating to neighboring territories after the war to evade persecution and were killed by occupying Armies of Russia and Brittain and United States.
None ever hear about the authentic military Orders from various Commanding Officers of Army occupying Germany to look for German women and children to impregnate them to restore the decimated male German population.
If Hitler was only 1/4 Jewish and 1/4 African and you think he was Evil, consider how Joseph Stalin was full 50% jewish and 50% Georgian with 3 Jewish wives himself and killed over 60 million Russians just for the crime of not being Communist.
If you think Stalin was bad, consider the fact that Mao Tse Dung at that time studied at a university built by the same Skull & Bones club that US presidents all attended and into reconstructing the Republic for China he killed over 80 million non-communist Chinese no different in all tortures and cold-blooded than Joseph Stalin.
The reason they are politically-persecuted in the Arab muslim countries is because they are the ones that want to be adopted by the United States so they can infiltrate and destroy just like all the other "adopted" ex-nationals.
You see, over the time, it is the United States that goes shopping around the world looking for fights and collects all the degenerate people that would've otherwise been killed. So now you have this mix-culture society, and you assume all these people are just going to put away their former culture. With muslims, it's actually a trick.
Muslims pretend to be persecuted so they can stage their adoption, and like assassins they get behind the lines of their enemy and start influencing the internal operations to encourage more influx of their kind no different than a parasite eating the brain of it's host. The books modified by Muhammad are all this way; he was a military tactician, that beheaded wives of a ruling man's Harem and raped them in-front of the town just to build the fear into them to never Cross his reign. You can't make this shit up. Once a muslim, you just can't trust whether any of their phylosophical progression or advertised enlightenment is a Con to conceal military Advances or is genuine good will. That's how entrenched their phylosophy is, and now one is a butthurt President of the United States.
The Jews are the same way; all the malice you find is in their Babylon Talmud, and a completely wicked matterial compared to the Torah composed of Hebrews that the Jews somehow parasitically attach theirselves to like the most disgusting thornbush with good fruit of another tree that only happened to roll down to settle under that thistle bush called the Talmud.
Jews and Muslims: it's like one is the head of the Snake and the other is the Body of the snake. Consider that Jews are the most kicked-out people in all of History, well-over 40 nations kicked them out specifically and wherever they once habitted has become the greatest influx of trailing Muslims after they've departed.
No, but I hate the FBI, I hate the US, I'm a scary muslim and I going to blow stuff up.
That should get their attention.
I just sold my car, so now I'll just wait for the FBI to bring me a new car so they can track me. Make it something nice guys, but not brand new because that will only get me into trouble with the IRS...
In some jurisdictions. "Surveillance requires warrant"
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Courts have thus far generally ruled that it's not a Fourth Amendment violation to put it on the undercarriage of the vehicle, but opening up the engine compartment is a "search" and thus poses 4Am problems.
Consequently, they're not going to hook them into the engine compartment without a warrant.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Come on, this is Slashdot. The first thing we should discuss is how to detect these things. I don't think there are supposed to be all that many transmitters in a car. The cops may hide the device but I bet someone here knows how to detect their signal. After the device is detected we need to know how to hack it so we can set home and send the FBI all over the map. When we get lots of them hacked we will arrange phantom meetups in the Navel Observatory and such. And at the end of the day, they must be made to run linux. Lets get nerding people.
The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
"we were high" FBI doesn't investigate this
... and I submit that it is no coincidence that the government targeted GM for nationalization.
rtfa , esp when you link to it :) brought by the captcha "playmate"
www.wodejinhu.com
www.taonow.info
land of the free. home of the brave. lol
Is that while tracking a car on the public roadway doesn't require a warrant, searching a car requires at least probable cause (i.e. the standard is "they could have gotten a warrant if they had applied for one"). The reasoning (from US v. Carroll) was that police (at least in 1924) wouldn't be able to leave the scene, apply for a warrant, and come back without the scene possibly being tampered with.
Consequently you have a problem. While it poses no Constitutional problems to put one of these things on the outside of the car (as per US v. Knotts), it is something very different to open up any part of the car to do so. That puts you in search territory, and consequently you had better be able to defend your decision in front of a court if you decide to do so. Hence most of these are simply attached to the undercarriage where it doesn't constitute a "search" to install or retrieve.
Moreover (as per US v. Karo) if the car is tracked into a closed structure, then a warrant might be required to retrieve the GPS data (Prof. Orin Kerr suggests the solution is to have the tracking units filter out locations not on public roadways, i.e. have the unit decide "I'm not on the road right now, stop tracking").
This is a complex and evolving area of law right now. There are a lot of interesting decisions coming out of courts in the area. Predicting the end of the 4th Amendment is way too premature at this point.
So consequently most of these things get put
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Drive some ancient heap with little to no electronics, and make yourself a microwave-oven ray gun. Periodically sweep the car to fry any hidden electronics.
A GPS jammer sets you back for $25. If you know where you're going and you suspect you're being tracked, $25 will thus buy you freedom. Alternatively, you may actually want to check under your car, but that means, like, work :-).
Insert
Which law or laws would you be breaking by placing tracking devices on FBI or police vehicles?
Free for the asking, just find a controversial web site, insert a comment, and in a few weeks you'll find a free GPS tracking device magically attached to the underside of your car. Just imagine the ensuing fun, attaching these to taxis and buses, or boats! I do not recommend trying to attach one of these to the outside of an airplane, however, especially when they are in motion.