Why should it be limited to North America? It's a matter of self control.
There are alcoholics in pretty much every country, and other folks who can be only social drinkers and not go overboard.
There are folks addicted to gambling all across the world, and other folks who never gamble, or just do a bit now an then for fun.
Being from any certain culture doesn't give automatic immunity from a lack of self control or addiction. It will mearly lower it's rate in the population if there are laws or cultural taboo's against it, but not prevent it entirely.
The consumer doesn't always win. Sometimes the company puts hidden stuff into their driver to fool benchmarks into giving it a higher frame-rate than it is really delivering for the game being tested. Then consumers buy a product based on that rigged benchmark.
You won't have hidden things in the driver trying to fool the consumers in open source drivers.
So? Just set up queue's for each user(ip) with borrowing. When others are surfing Mr. Bittorrent/slashdot-mirror gets throttled down to a 'fair' rate, forcing him to share the bandwidth with others. When they stop using it, he gets to go hog wild using it all.
Well if you are a security consultant, than you should know some network security guys. Ask them and I'm sure one of them would be happy to consult or point out a consultant who could fix them right up. If they can't get permission to replace the wireless equipment they have, but you have physical access to the wireless access points and the central tie-in to the cable/dsl/T1 or whatever, drop in an IP-less OpenBSD machine between them, and have it throttle the users.
No, the talk has been focused on the Marvell driver, but there is other proprietary stuff that others are talking about if you care to listen, such as the SD driver you mention.
"Theo de Raadt: At first I thought only the wireless device was undocumented, and required an NDA with Marvell. Now we know that the SD (Secure Digital) interface is insufficiently documented and requires an NDA with the SD Card Association. And the camera interface is also undocumented and requires an NDA with OmniVision. I wonder how many more parts of this laptop will be proprietary? If I am careful in selection, I can buy a laptop on the market today that has fewer proprietary parts."
There may well be other additional proprietary parts we don't know of yet, but we do know of the Marvell firmware, and interface documentation, the SD interface, and the camera. There are at least 4 objectional parts, and those are just what we know of so far. So yeah, that's "lots of proprietary stuff" to me and others.
I never said Jim Gettys was riding on Linux's coattails. First of all, I don't include Linux as the only open source software out there. Further, I said they (this project) are riding on OSS as a name, when there is a lot of closed stuff in it. It is, and there is.
"If they patched it themselves, or replaced it with some other cryptosystem, their license to use Linux or BSD does not terminate."
FUD.
You don't lose your license if you don't upgrade from SP1.
"will not be reactivated, cannot be patched, etc., "
FUD.
Install SP2 and MS will start supporting it again.
MS will just no longer provide automatic patches to it or handle your service support calls unless you patch up to SP2.
You are free to manually download the patches off of MS's website and install them yourself. Their automatic tool just won't do it for you anymore because it realizes your system is already at big risk from not having SP2 installed. Plus, without having to worry about unpatched or SP1 only boxes that means that new patches they create only have to be tested on all the variations of SP2 machines, not also all the variations of those with only SP1. That's a lot less testing they have to do to new patches, so that they can roll them out faster.
This is no different than my example in my previous post where you would be laughed off any help board on the net if you were using a old and obviously broken and hackable software on Linux/BSD.
The people on the list would not go out of their way to help you with wild workarounds to problems you are having on an old unpatched system. They are first going to tell you to patch your damn box and close the known holes on it. Then they'll help you with whatever other problems you have with it.
XP won't stop functioning if you don't' patch it. MS just doesn't want the headache of dealing with support calls from idiots who won't patch their boxes.
If you want people to take seriously your real arguments against MS when you say them (and there are plenty of real ones out there)...
It's proclaiming that it is OSS. All the while, they are including lots of proprietary stuff in it. They are riding on the OSS coattails. If they weren't harping how the were Open, I don't think they'd be getting the flak they are.
If you are proclaiming being 'Open' is one of the big bonuses and selling points of what you are doing, you probably really ought to put in some real effort to actually being open. Otherwise, I think I'd shut up about proclaiming how 'Open' it is, and just state 'it runs Linux' (or whatever OS you are going to run on it.
Umm, don't you think that in a place where they are struggling to buy a $100 laptop, they might try to make the hardware last a little longer and not just throw money at an upgrade in 3 years when the 'aging' hardware seems a little slow compared to what else is available on the market?
I don't think you can apply typical 1st world hareware replacement norms to this case. I think every attempt will be made to keep using things long long past when they would be trashed in a 1st world country.
Yeah, and what about all those poor Linux/BSD/Other users who are using the very old version of SSH that had a security hole? Why should they have to download upgrades and go through procedures to test that it works with the rest of their systems? Why can't they continue to use the old version without being laughed off any support forum on the internet?
Oh yeah, because it's really really dumb to run 4 year old software with holes when patches that fix problems in it have been available for years.
Since you are depending on moisture on the air, it's always going to be variable. Humitidy isn't constant. If you are only collecting the same 5 gallons a day when the air is 80% humid as you do on days with 40% humidity, you have some strange bottleneck in your system rate limiting it.
Win2k support will continue through 2010. Since XP came out not that long after, it only will buy you a couple more years (MS does security support for 10 years for each product, the EOL's them)
So, if they get a pass with 'everyone else is doing it', do I get the same if I want do download some songs or MP3s? Can I just tell the **AA that 'everyone else is doing it', and that everyone is a lot higher number than the folks google is talking about.
I would. Microsoft has already stated that they will continue support for Windows 2000 through 2010.
Huge corporations make Microsoft put a support-up-to-at-least date in their contracts before they will purchase a new OS from them. So I wouldn't worry about 2k support stopping until then.
The case being discussed did not involve a House-Owners Association. If it did, there would've been no judge... The neighbor sued the man for painting his house. It can happen to you even if you buy outside an HOA.
You mean the great-great-great----- grandparent post where it says at the end:
"Needless to say the home owner won, but they did not get to counter-sue for court costs (so their insurance paid) and their home-owners quietly dropped them after the renewal period the following year was over."
The home-owner won. The neighbor that sued him lost. So?
I can sue you right now because I don't like the color of your shoe laces. I've never seen your shoelaces, but I can still sue you for it. I'll lose and get laughed out of court, but I can sue you for it. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. If they don't have a basis for the claim, they are going to lose. If the case is ridiculous enough (depending on the jurisdiction) the plaintiff will get nailed for court costs. You might even consider filing a lawsuit against them for filing nuisance suits against you. Sue sue sue. Anyone can do it. If they don't have a basis for it, they will lose.
So if your hardware is fine for the work you do, and you already have licensed copies of 2k/XP, why exactly did you tell boss you needed to spend that money on Vista in the first place?
Yeah, you are just speading FUD bullshit.
No one is forcing you to upgrade to Vista. Most people will do it as part as the normal system upgrade cycle that most places do as apps, etc, become more and more boated, or when they are processing more and more information and need more CPU/RAM/drive-space, etc. Just as the grandparent pointed out, it's not going to cost most folks anywhere near the full retail cost of Vista. If you don't need new hardware, you simply don't upgrade yet. Microsoft hasn't stopped support for 2k or XP, so they certainly aren't forcing your hand. Stop the FUD.
You talking to me? Umm, I didn't buy a house in a HOA area. I was merely pointing out to the grandparent that HOAs are a response to an actual risk. Personally, I'll take the risk of someone buying a house near me and not taking care of it, so that I can do whatever I want with my own house. Others know they aren't going to do anything creative/interesting/different/not-up-to-standards , and so they buy a home in a HOA area so that they don't have the risk of their property value going down when a neighbor spoils the view.
Neither one is wrong. I don't want to live in a HOA area. Others do, and for an actual legitimate reason. No big deal.
And why does it lower the value? Because people think it lowers the value.
It's amazing how quickly you've basically repeated my post. I never claimed the effect wasn't real, just that the cause is rather ridiculous.
Wow. You seem to be having a real hard time with reading comprehension.
There is no 'circular logic' involved.
If I go shopping for houses and I find two homes that are similar size, similar upkeep, similar distance from my place of work, are in an area where my kids would go to the same schools, and in most other ways similar, it might be a toss up on which one I make a bid on buying.
However, if one is next to very nicely kept, pretty houses, and the other is next to some ugly looking houses, or houses that look like they aren't maintained well, I am going to make the bid on the house with pretty looking houses for neighbors. Why? Is it just "because people say the property value is lower on the other one"? No you idiot. I don't want to wake up every morning for the next 30 years and look out my window at a piece of crap ugly house next door. I'd rather enjoy the view from my house than not. That's a little extra bit of quality of life. That is worth something to me, so I'd offer more for the house with the pretty neighbor houses.
The house with the pretty neighbor houses will sell more easily, and get a higher bid. That's property value, and it's for a real legitimate reason. View = a bit of quality of life. Not "Because people think it lowers the value". I can draw pictures if you need it any clearer.
Umm, it's not a mentality. It's a reality. It does devalue the property.
That being said, I'd never buy a home in a HOA area because I want to be able to do whatever I want to the house I buy. I merely accept that as a consequence of that, my property value might be lower because of a neighbor of mine doing something bizarre that they happen to want to do with theirs.
Um, no. It's not just "because they think it lowers property values". It's because it probably will lower the value. When people look for houses to live in, besides their own house, they look at the neighborhood. That includes lot of things, but also includes the view/beauty of the neighbors property. People tend to not like to live next to 'ugly neighbors'. All things being equal, they will bid on a house surrounded by 'pretty' houses rather than one surrounded by ugly ones. If your neighbor's house is ugly, when you try to sell yours, the couple that was going to bid on it, might instead choose to bid for an equivalent house on the market that has good looking neighbor houses. That means your property value *IS* lower than it could have been.
That being said, I'd much prefer to live out in the country where folks have more land, and care a lot less about what the neighbors place looks like, because it's out of their view.
Firmware blobs run only on the chips they are for. They don't run on the central CPU, and they don't run in kernal space, therefore, they aren't a security risk. Drivers blobs are an entirely different matter. Drivers blobs are a security risk and need to be open.
Security is not just one of the chief concerns of the BSD crowd, it is one of Theo's chief concerns. If he's not asking for open blobs, it's because they aren't a security concern.
and there have been few military casualties in Iraq lately,
WTF? Have you been watching Fox news lately or something?
This is the sad state of affairs we have come. The neo-con government is prevents the showing of the coffins of the U.S. soldiers who given their lives for their country, so no one sees the price the country is paying. There have been plenty of U.S. military casualties lately, and I think it does disservice to their memory and to their families that most Americans, like the parent, are ignorant of the fact. Want the stats? http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_ca sualties.htm
Even better, the idiots who insist on using as a reference a website any 12-year-old can change whenever he feels like it could at least learn to use it right.
Dear Wikipedia fanboys, Learn to fucking reference it right. When you make a link to it, include the full link to the timestamp of the state it is in when you read it.
That way, while the content may or may not be either excellent material written by an expert on the field, or the ramplings of a moronic 12-year-old who felt like he knew how things 'work' better than the Ph.D. in the field whose entry he just erased, at least you know the reader will be looking at the same content you did.
The religous far-right, otherwise known as the American Taliban, claim to be good Christians, but their words and actions are directly opposed to the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus preached peace and love and hung out with a hooker. The idiot neocons preach hate and fear. The aren't really Christians at all.
Slashdot Mirror
Why should it be limited to North America? It's a matter of self control.
There are alcoholics in pretty much every country, and other folks who can be only social drinkers and not go overboard.
There are folks addicted to gambling all across the world, and other folks who never gamble, or just do a bit now an then for fun.
Being from any certain culture doesn't give automatic immunity from a lack of self control or addiction. It will mearly lower it's rate in the population if there are laws or cultural taboo's against it, but not prevent it entirely.
The consumer doesn't always win. Sometimes the company puts hidden stuff into their driver to fool benchmarks into giving it a higher frame-rate than it is really delivering for the game being tested. Then consumers buy a product based on that rigged benchmark.
You won't have hidden things in the driver trying to fool the consumers in open source drivers.
So? Just set up queue's for each user(ip) with borrowing. When others are surfing Mr. Bittorrent/slashdot-mirror gets throttled down to a 'fair' rate, forcing him to share the bandwidth with others. When they stop using it, he gets to go hog wild using it all.
Well if you are a security consultant, than you should know some network security guys. Ask them and I'm sure one of them would be happy to consult or point out a consultant who could fix them right up. If they can't get permission to replace the wireless equipment they have, but you have physical access to the wireless access points and the central tie-in to the cable/dsl/T1 or whatever, drop in an IP-less OpenBSD machine between them, and have it throttle the users.
No, the talk has been focused on the Marvell driver, but there is other proprietary stuff that others are talking about if you care to listen, such as the SD driver you mention.
6 /
from the discussion at http://www.thejemreport.com/mambo/content/view/28
"Theo de Raadt: At first I thought only the wireless device was undocumented, and required an NDA with Marvell. Now we know that the SD (Secure Digital) interface is insufficiently documented and requires an NDA with the SD Card Association. And the camera interface is also undocumented and requires an NDA with OmniVision. I wonder how many more parts of this laptop will be proprietary? If I am careful in selection, I can buy a laptop on the market today that has fewer proprietary parts."
There may well be other additional proprietary parts we don't know of yet, but we do know of the Marvell firmware, and interface documentation, the SD interface, and the camera. There are at least 4 objectional parts, and those are just what we know of so far. So yeah, that's "lots of proprietary stuff" to me and others.
I never said Jim Gettys was riding on Linux's coattails. First of all, I don't include Linux as the only open source software out there. Further, I said they (this project) are riding on OSS as a name, when there is a lot of closed stuff in it. It is, and there is.
FUD. You are spreading FUD. Pure and simple.
"If they patched it themselves, or replaced it with some other cryptosystem, their license to use Linux or BSD does not terminate."
FUD.
You don't lose your license if you don't upgrade from SP1.
"will not be reactivated, cannot be patched, etc., "
FUD.
Install SP2 and MS will start supporting it again.
MS will just no longer provide automatic patches to it or handle your service support calls unless you patch up to SP2.
You are free to manually download the patches off of MS's website and install them yourself. Their automatic tool just won't do it for you anymore because it realizes your system is already at big risk from not having SP2 installed. Plus, without having to worry about unpatched or SP1 only boxes that means that new patches they create only have to be tested on all the variations of SP2 machines, not also all the variations of those with only SP1. That's a lot less testing they have to do to new patches, so that they can roll them out faster.
This is no different than my example in my previous post where you would be laughed off any help board on the net if you were using a old and obviously broken and hackable software on Linux/BSD.
The people on the list would not go out of their way to help you with wild workarounds to problems you are having on an old unpatched system. They are first going to tell you to patch your damn box and close the known holes on it. Then they'll help you with whatever other problems you have with it.
XP won't stop functioning if you don't' patch it. MS just doesn't want the headache of dealing with support calls from idiots who won't patch their boxes.
If you want people to take seriously your real arguments against MS when you say them (and there are plenty of real ones out there)...
STOP SPREADING FUD!
It isn't 'targeted at the OSS community'.
It's proclaiming that it is OSS. All the while, they are including lots of proprietary stuff in it. They are riding on the OSS coattails. If they weren't harping how the were Open, I don't think they'd be getting the flak they are.
If you are proclaiming being 'Open' is one of the big bonuses and selling points of what you are doing, you probably really ought to put in some real effort to actually being open. Otherwise, I think I'd shut up about proclaiming how 'Open' it is, and just state 'it runs Linux' (or whatever OS you are going to run on it.
Umm, don't you think that in a place where they are struggling to buy a $100 laptop, they might try to make the hardware last a little longer and not just throw money at an upgrade in 3 years when the 'aging' hardware seems a little slow compared to what else is available on the market?
I don't think you can apply typical 1st world hareware replacement norms to this case. I think every attempt will be made to keep using things long long past when they would be trashed in a 1st world country.
Yeah, and what about all those poor Linux/BSD/Other users who are using the very old version of SSH that had a security hole? Why should they have to download upgrades and go through procedures to test that it works with the rest of their systems? Why can't they continue to use the old version without being laughed off any support forum on the internet?
Oh yeah, because it's really really dumb to run 4 year old software with holes when patches that fix problems in it have been available for years.
Since you are depending on moisture on the air, it's always going to be variable. Humitidy isn't constant. If you are only collecting the same 5 gallons a day when the air is 80% humid as you do on days with 40% humidity, you have some strange bottleneck in your system rate limiting it.
Win2k support will continue through 2010. Since XP came out not that long after, it only will buy you a couple more years (MS does security support for 10 years for each product, the EOL's them)
So, if they get a pass with 'everyone else is doing it', do I get the same if I want do download some songs or MP3s? Can I just tell the **AA that 'everyone else is doing it', and that everyone is a lot higher number than the folks google is talking about.
I would. Microsoft has already stated that they will continue support for Windows 2000 through 2010.
Huge corporations make Microsoft put a support-up-to-at-least date in their contracts before they will purchase a new OS from them. So I wouldn't worry about 2k support stopping until then.
The case being discussed did not involve a House-Owners Association. If it did, there would've been no judge... The neighbor sued the man for painting his house. It can happen to you even if you buy outside an HOA.
You mean the great-great-great----- grandparent post where it says at the end:
"Needless to say the home owner won, but they did not get to counter-sue for court costs (so their insurance paid) and their home-owners quietly dropped them after the renewal period the following year was over."
The home-owner won. The neighbor that sued him lost. So?
I can sue you right now because I don't like the color of your shoe laces. I've never seen your shoelaces, but I can still sue you for it. I'll lose and get laughed out of court, but I can sue you for it. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. If they don't have a basis for the claim, they are going to lose. If the case is ridiculous enough (depending on the jurisdiction) the plaintiff will get nailed for court costs. You might even consider filing a lawsuit against them for filing nuisance suits against you. Sue sue sue. Anyone can do it. If they don't have a basis for it, they will lose.
So if your hardware is fine for the work you do, and you already have licensed copies of 2k/XP, why exactly did you tell boss you needed to spend that money on Vista in the first place?
Yeah, you are just speading FUD bullshit.
No one is forcing you to upgrade to Vista. Most people will do it as part as the normal system upgrade cycle that most places do as apps, etc, become more and more boated, or when they are processing more and more information and need more CPU/RAM/drive-space, etc. Just as the grandparent pointed out, it's not going to cost most folks anywhere near the full retail cost of Vista. If you don't need new hardware, you simply don't upgrade yet. Microsoft hasn't stopped support for 2k or XP, so they certainly aren't forcing your hand. Stop the FUD.
You talking to me? Umm, I didn't buy a house in a HOA area. I was merely pointing out to the grandparent that HOAs are a response to an actual risk. Personally, I'll take the risk of someone buying a house near me and not taking care of it, so that I can do whatever I want with my own house. Others know they aren't going to do anything creative/interesting/different/not-up-to-standards , and so they buy a home in a HOA area so that they don't have the risk of their property value going down when a neighbor spoils the view.
Neither one is wrong. I don't want to live in a HOA area. Others do, and for an actual legitimate reason. No big deal.
Because people think it lowers the value.
It's amazing how quickly you've basically repeated my post. I never claimed the effect wasn't real, just that the cause is rather ridiculous.
Wow. You seem to be having a real hard time with reading comprehension.
There is no 'circular logic' involved.
If I go shopping for houses and I find two homes that are similar size, similar upkeep, similar distance from my place of work, are in an area where my kids would go to the same schools, and in most other ways similar, it might be a toss up on which one I make a bid on buying.
However, if one is next to very nicely kept, pretty houses, and the other is next to some ugly looking houses, or houses that look like they aren't maintained well, I am going to make the bid on the house with pretty looking houses for neighbors. Why? Is it just "because people say the property value is lower on the other one"? No you idiot. I don't want to wake up every morning for the next 30 years and look out my window at a piece of crap ugly house next door. I'd rather enjoy the view from my house than not. That's a little extra bit of quality of life. That is worth something to me, so I'd offer more for the house with the pretty neighbor houses.
The house with the pretty neighbor houses will sell more easily, and get a higher bid. That's property value, and it's for a real legitimate reason. View = a bit of quality of life. Not "Because people think it lowers the value". I can draw pictures if you need it any clearer.
Umm, it's not a mentality. It's a reality. It does devalue the property.
That being said, I'd never buy a home in a HOA area because I want to be able to do whatever I want to the house I buy. I merely accept that as a consequence of that, my property value might be lower because of a neighbor of mine doing something bizarre that they happen to want to do with theirs.
Um, no. It's not just "because they think it lowers property values". It's because it probably will lower the value. When people look for houses to live in, besides their own house, they look at the neighborhood. That includes lot of things, but also includes the view/beauty of the neighbors property. People tend to not like to live next to 'ugly neighbors'. All things being equal, they will bid on a house surrounded by 'pretty' houses rather than one surrounded by ugly ones. If your neighbor's house is ugly, when you try to sell yours, the couple that was going to bid on it, might instead choose to bid for an equivalent house on the market that has good looking neighbor houses. That means your property value *IS* lower than it could have been.
That being said, I'd much prefer to live out in the country where folks have more land, and care a lot less about what the neighbors place looks like, because it's out of their view.
Firmware blobs run only on the chips they are for. They don't run on the central CPU, and they don't run in kernal space, therefore, they aren't a security risk. Drivers blobs are an entirely different matter. Drivers blobs are a security risk and need to be open.
Security is not just one of the chief concerns of the BSD crowd, it is one of Theo's chief concerns. If he's not asking for open blobs, it's because they aren't a security concern.
WTF? Have you been watching Fox news lately or something?
This is the sad state of affairs we have come. The neo-con government is prevents the showing of the coffins of the U.S. soldiers who given their lives for their country, so no one sees the price the country is paying. There have been plenty of U.S. military casualties lately, and I think it does disservice to their memory and to their families that most Americans, like the parent, are ignorant of the fact. Want the stats? http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_c
Even better, the idiots who insist on using as a reference a website any 12-year-old can change whenever he feels like it could at least learn to use it right.
% 80%93Einstein_condensate&diff=78635928&oldid=78633 658
Dear Wikipedia fanboys,
Learn to fucking reference it right. When you make a link to it, include the full link to the timestamp of the state it is in when you read it.
Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bose%E2
would have been the correct way to reference Wikipwdia for the grandparent wiki fanboy.
That way, while the content may or may not be either excellent material written by an expert on the field, or the ramplings of a moronic 12-year-old who felt like he knew how things 'work' better than the Ph.D. in the field whose entry he just erased, at least you know the reader will be looking at the same content you did.
People posting to slashdot should all be required to cite real relavent sources. Not some website any 12-year old can change at a whim.
He doesn't have to leave. He has the right of free speech you fucking neo-cons would love to take away from the rest of us.
Being able to criticize the government is an important part of what makes America America.
The American-Taliban is trying to change it into a conformist fascist state. The distruction of Habeus Corpus is another step along the way.
I think that was kind of his point.
The religous far-right, otherwise known as the American Taliban, claim to be good Christians, but their words and actions are directly opposed to the teachings of Jesus.
Jesus preached peace and love and hung out with a hooker. The idiot neocons preach hate and fear. The aren't really Christians at all.