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How Warcraft Doesn't Have To Wreck Lives
robustyoungsoul writes "From the same guild leadership as the fellow who started an internet storm with his post about his experience in WoW comes a different point of view: it doesn't have to consume your life." From the article: "I got a Masters degree in policy from one of the most difficult schools in the country while at the same time playing WoW and working a part time job. I would come home from a busy day and think about how to use what I learned to make the guild work better. It was a way for me to practice what I was learning and to discover what was involved with leading people (mostly getting all the blame and no thanks, it seems :P). I've learned the lessons of clear communication, sacrifice, compassion, tough love ... and balance. I plan to use these skills in my professional life. So in short, I play the game because I get something tangible out of it."
and I bite my nails for the added protein
For a new article, titled World of Warcraft May Consume Your Life, or It Also May Not, You Never Know!
If you don't play Warcraft, it is unlikely to wreck your life.
When did life experience become tangible?
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
self control and the ability to tell a guild to go to hell. I have work to do.
You mad
+1, Obvious.
It's all about balance, people. I love my gaming time, but I don't give up food, sleep, work, etc. just to play my two MMORPGs (SWG and Eve Online). Maybe it's just that my games don't require 4 hour instances at the end game or maybe I just know when I'm tired, hungry, or have other commitments.
Sometimes you just have to say "Hey guys, I'm starving/tired/going to do something else for a while, see you later."
When the title on the Warcraft game box says Warcraft: Orcs & Humans.
Man there was this thing that we had back in the day. What was it called again?
Oh, that's right, moderation.
Too much of a good thing is bad. Strive for just the right amount.
from a respected school in Aerospace while holding down a full time job (often with overtime), a wife and kids and playing Everquest (occasionally WoW. My friends play, but I prefer EQ). It all comes down to self-control. The game is not the problem. It is individual people's lack of self-control and lack of priorities that cause problems.
WoW doesn't have near the effect on gamers that Evercrack had. WoW is just more mainstream.
WoW is an extremely easy game marketed to the average player. Everquest was much more difficult, and required much more time. You couldn't do anything in that game without devoting 4 straight hours, usually double that if you were in a high-end guild. It puts WoW to shame.
Lives need to be nerfed they are overpowered
The reason I won't play Wow is not because it actively destroys people. It's because of the potential for what can happen to someone who plays Wow. I played entirely too much Diablo 2 back in the day (Ok, I'm not that old...). I know that if I started Wow and put as much time and effort into it as I did into Diablo 2 I would be in some serious trouble. Last time I tried to start an mmorpg I kinda got bored after a while. Could this happen with WoW? Maybe but not necessarily. The last MMO I played was no where near as good as Wow probably is. I see my own refusal to start Wow as a reluctant recognition that it might actually be the best. If it's really that good I could get sucked in and I don't want to become another one of those stories like we saw on here the other day.
So in short, I play the game because I get something tangible out of it.
That's what I thought when I was at the university playing Magic: The Gathering until the wee hours of the morning. I got something tangible out of it when I was kicked out of the university: a full-time resturant job. Nothing like learning about the real world between a hot cooking area and a cold walk-in cooler.
After working in IT management, I like to come home and blast several hundred rounds into people. It helps me because I can use what I learn there IRL...
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
WoW doesn't wreck lives, people wreck their own lives. If you have an addictive personality and can't set prorities, then you shouldn't play WoW. I know people who play MMO's all the time who lead productive lives. If you aren't one of those people, take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming them on what you're using.
In Soviet Russia, dots slash you!
i can much agree with the positive impression, but for different reasons. I have 50+ hour work life and i'm happily married. My goal in WoW is not to complete the T2 set ASAP (it is bound to happen anyway some day) or to learn management (better: herding of cats), but to recreate. It's a great tool (and just a tool) for that. No more, but no less...
Regards, Martin
Our unofficial guild motto has always been RL > WOW, friends come first.
Sure, but their motto on "raid day" was "WTF N00B GET UR ASS ON UR MAIN WERE RAIDING!!!11"
. . . is to play warcraft 3 instead of world of warcraft. Or to buy a stairmaster and see/feel a difference when you level up. Not to mention when you live in a society where grinding on the stairmaster is guaranteed to increase your charisma dramatically.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
I see this as more of a "I'm not a loser!"/"I didn't waste my time!" reaction, and a defense written only for himself. It's obvious he's just offended by the public opinion which was stirred and strengthened that WoW players lack a strong social/outside life.
And it's true. You cannot have as strong of a social/outside life when you play a video game for 8 hours a day, unless you live on a planet that has 32 hour days.
If I didn't see it ruin so many people personally, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it. No one said it wuld automatically make you do bad in school. If you have little to no social life, you have plenty of room for your schoolwork and WoW.
He's simply in denial.
I gaurantee if you got a masters in something that isn't made up that you wouldn't have time for WoW, you would be too busy working hard. Please let me know what "difficult" university allowed you to play video games daily and still give you a degree.
I hear WoW is a lot better than Evercrack in this respect, but a problem I find is that the things that are considered top achievements in WoW are not doable without insane amounts of mindless, repetitive activites. For instance, you want High Warlord or Grand Marshall, you have to PVP 14 hours a day for 6 months. The expansion is supposed to alleviate some of these issues, but I'd still say that you'll enjoy WoW a lot more if you don't feel the urge to top everybody else's achievements. There's a lot of people with no life out there, and if you want to top them, you'll have to give up your life too.
The perfect sig is a lot like silence, only louder
Millions of people find they aren't addicted to things that a small percentage of other people have addictions to. Film at 11. I mean common the point of the addiction stories were never to necessarily to say everyone will become addicted to them and they should carry a surgeon general's warning or something. The point is that a small percentage of people have a problem with the game and it's something we have to learn how to recognize and help those people who need it. Ignoring the problem because the (likely) majority of the playing population doesn't have this problem solves nothing
Saying that there is always two sides to every story is simplistic. There are shades of gr[e|a]y in everything.
WoW makes has numerous things to make it an addictive game. And the guy does express something important here. He never beat a game in his life. For everyone else who usually finishes what they start the whole game is a time sink and certainly one with such a vague and moving forward objective that it hurts.
http://www.wowdetox.com/ helps a lot of people out.
I disagree. I play warcraft, and I know about addiction. It's not like you think to yourself every 10 minutes "Hey... I'm still playing but should stop!" You look up after 3 hours and go "WTF? I thought it had only been an hour!" Part of that is due to the fact that it takes a long time (sometimes) to get even simple things done, thanks to having to run around and fly here/there, etc. Addiction to other substances like alcohol is no different. Based on what you've said, you could say "Why not just avoid pouring another drink?" Being an addict IS being unable to limit yourself. It's mostly about having a problem with reality/sobriety in the first place. It doesn't matter what you are addicted to - be it sex, drugs, or rock'n'roll, baby.
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77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
This article gets a '!life' tag from me.
I've seen stupid things to complain about, fight against. But.. "WoW ruins lives!11!" "WoW doesn't ruin lives!" articles.. come on. Too much of anything obviously has repercussions.
I fear the upcoming dupe.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
Oooh, so you're the one guy who uses the game for educational purposes. Oh wait, that's right, it's just another rationalization for checking out of reality. Hey, if it works for you that's great.
Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
There is an option to turn on tips for loading screens, and one of those tips says:
"Remember to do all things in moderation. (Including World of Warcraft!)"
WoW presents a very specific problem, beyond the typical problems of "self control" and "moderation". If it were that simple, then yes, turn off the computer and do something else. However, the ability to level quickly is both blessing and curse - and that's (what I see as) the core issue.
/sigh
First, WoW is beautiful. Yes, it's cartoonish, but it's got character and depth. I, for one, just like seeing new things, exploring new places. There comes a point within WoW that you can't do anything new unless you get to the end game content. All of which requires heavy guild involvement... to the point mentioned in the first article. Strat can be beautiful, and I regret never seeing Naxx (and only once getting into AQ). But unless I was willing to devote myself heart and soul to a guild - I was relegated to pick-up groups for the "lesser" instances... and forget ever seeing AQ40 or Molten Core. Once you reach these points, starting over isn't an option. You've seen it, you've done it. And no matter how you've convinced yourself that you're not grinding levels in Loch Modan, starting over only offers an extreme amount of drudgery. (Switching from Alliance to Horde only delays the inevitable)
Second, WoW is just to easy to level up. Too many times you hear about people getting to 60 without a clue of what to do next. You get this consistent endorphin rush every time you "ding". And that's great. It helps keep you moving forward through some of the dull spots (think levels 37-40). But once you've hit 60 you've invested a huge amount of time in a character... whether that's hours upon hours a day for a couple months, or a relaxed pace over a year. It feels like you're abandoning your alter ego to just quit playing. You want to push forward, but you can't. Hence, you've got to run after epic loot and instances.
And Third... friends. I've made a lot of friends in-game. We've been through a lot together (all of us utterly refusing to ever step foot in Gnomeregan again). And many of them (especially the married couples that both play) want to continue forward. Once again, you're relegated to the outside... shoved off unless you want to grind for Cenarion rep in Silithus.
All three of these led to my WoW burnout. I was bumped from my "elite" guild because I didn't want to spend 20 hours a week on top of job and social life. Getting put back in the "feeder" guild, while it sounds fine, just felt awful. My friends had all moved on, and I was shoved aside and forgotten (much like the original article). Eventually, I've found another server (too many familiar faces on the old one) and a nice, casual guild. But then again... the first guild started out nice and casual as well...
Absolutely MMOs are designed to be addictive. That's the whole point of subscription based games, to draw in players and keep them interested in the game. What MMO player doesn't look forward to hitting that next level, acquiring new gear, or exploring some new region? Character building certainly is an alluring gameplay element. I feel the lure whenever I try a MMO.
That said, however, I certainly don't think Blizzard or any other developer is responsible for anyone who gets addictive. These companies want players subscribed for a couple of years, but I doubt it's anyone's intention that they have players addicted to these games like they were drugs.
It's easy for someone to say they can stop playing whenever they want. There are also people who think playing games 40 hours a week is casual gaming. The point is that for someone who has become truly addicted they've lost all self-control. They can't stop. They feel agitated when they're not playing; the game is constantly on their mind. What they need is help, in one form or another.
Regardless of the nature of the addiction, it ultimately is that player's fault. They made the decision to install the game and start playing. The fact that they lost themselves to the game is ultimately their own fault.
My concern is that there are lawyers out there already licking their chops. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing lawsuits against these developers.
Much like the lawsuits against the tobacco companies. In at least the past 20 years we've known smoking is bad. Even if these people didn't know when they started, they must have learned since then. Why didn't they find a way to stop? The company may have been questionable to selling such a product, but ultimately it's the consumer's fault. I mean, using the rationale for suing those companies we might as well sue all automakers for enabling us to put ourselves in harm's way.
The question here isn't whether games like WoW are addictive, because they clearly are. It's whether people are going to be mature and responsible enough to acknowledge their own fault in all this. Unfortunately, as history has shown in this culture of the victim, too many people are going blame everyone but themselves.
And just wait until gaming reaches a point where it's photo-realistic, approaching something like the realism of the holodeck. We haven't seen anything yet.
Taught me a lot really fast.
It was like life at triple speed.
I learned how to recognize users a lot better.
I learned a lot about logistics.
I learned things that help me in my daily job as a project lead.
I was a natural leader before- but doing the guild bit was trial by fire.
These days.. I play about 6 hours a week tho. It's a game and I have RL stuff that is fun to do. It was a glorious period from 1999 to 2001 tho.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
With the number of articles about wow ruining/not ruining lives, we will probably soon start seeing articles about articles about wow ruining lives ruining lives. Can we section these into a new /. section called "wowruinslives.slashdot.org" so that we can try and avoid them and therefore not ruin our lives? After all, I'm an impressionable retard who can't discern whether or not I should go to work every day, or sit around playing video games and get evicted for the horrible stench emitting from my apartment since my guild leader didnt give me permission to go to the bathroom. I don't think its fair to take advantage of my fragile state of mind by putting up all these articles about wow ruining lives.
being an addict IS being unable to limit yourself.
No, it really isn't, not at all. the inability to limit yourself is a lack of moderation, not addiction.
Playing WoW for 3 hours does not qualify you to speak about addiction, it simply points to the fact you have a very poor sense of time.
I spent every day of my form the age of 21 to the age of 29 shooting Heroin. That is addiction. I stole form friends family and strangers to get more drugs. I lied to everybody in my life to try and hide my problem. I got divorced because of it, I got fired because of it and I lost numerous friends to suicide, overdose, and murder because of it.
By the way, very often I was able to limit myself; I was able to put enough away for morning so I could start the cycle all over again.
Before you claim to know about addiction ask yourself, have you ever mugged somebody to get money to play WoW? Have you ever done a B&E to get money to play WoW. Have you ever seen your life go down the drain because of WoW and say "fuck it, I would rather play WoW then be married anyway"
Calling the kid who plays to much WoW an addict is an insult to addicts all over the world. I personally have never gotten a chick to suck me off by telling her is she sucks my cock I will give her some WoW.
Addiction is about a singular obsession and compulsion, not a poor sense of time.
(I've been clean for 3 years now)
So, a highly educated individual embraced WoW as an avenue to further his intellectual goals. Nice. Now ask the 99.999999991% of the folks playing this game why they play WoW. It's for the raids man!
One day the toilets of the world will rise up... And I'm going to nuke them.
Wow started off easy and has gotten harder and more EQ like.
With each release EQ has become easier and more Wow like.
EQ was always about when you could log on more than about your skill (if you could log on at 3pm and get all the rare spawns/gear before the rest of the world got home, you win!). But the last vestages of skill probably left about 2 years ago. It had a serious increase in wimpiness/friendliness. The old EQ was *cruel* and *hard*. You screw up, you lose ALL your gear that took hundreds of hours to obtain. You *had* to stay up til 3am to CR your corpse out of Sebilous because if it rotted, you were screwed. It felt very intense- and when some stranger helped you- it mattered.
Today-- you die anywhere, you pay a little plat and you are fine again. No big.
Some of the raid encounters do require a little skill. Not sure grouping does. It's more about time spent grouping.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Warcraft Doesn't Have to Wreck Lives and guns don't have to kill people. It all depends in whose hands they are.
I can even play Solitaire for hours, so it's a question of self-control.
Or how much fantasy money you're willing to lose.
(How real men play solitaire? Draw Three, Las Vegas Style, Cumulative Score)
Defining Statistics and Social Research
HORACE PORTER
American general and diplomat
(1837 - 1921)
How did a guy that died 85 years ago know about WoW?
What a difficult concept.
The above post is an editorial, the poster cannot and will not be held responsible for all or in part for it's contents
Means he wants a job in HR.
Listen dude ! What your saying isn't convincing us! And it's especially not gonna convince your girlfriend ... see you in the "singles guild" ...
The same people that can't exercise self-control with gambling, alcohol, prescription drugs, sex, smoking, illegal drugs, internet usage, eating, or one of a whole host of other problems, can just as easily become addicted to video games.
What don't people understand about moderation? If you play too much World of Warcraft, your life will be lost. Same goes if you watch too much TV, movies, Xbox, parties, etc. If you can handle it, you can handle it. I played World of Warcraft the last 2 summers and quit everytime I go back to school. I'm far from addicted. Why? I have no idea... maybe its my grasp on reality?
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
Will it eventually be suitable to list a guild leadership position in a resume?
(of course, if anyone uses that as resume filler they'll have trouble getting most jobs)
When the general population has greater access to high end 3d cards.
o w/living/caught/main510302.shtml
All of this has already happened w/ EverCrack, more than 4 years ago
We knew of all the problems back then, no one cared
EverCrack Addiction: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/28/earlysh
http://pc.ign.com/articles/356/356673p1.html
I thought this was about WoW, not Ultima.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It's kind of like mowing one's lawn with scissors right?
A person can work damned hard, and really sweat it out...to get to the same place that everyone else got to with a lawnmower. Good job. Now that he's struggled to get to middle, what's next? The mailroom?
Huh?
How do you kill that which has no life?
Sorry, I had to!!
But seriously, its true. They show this in the southpark episode. The only way to compete with the uber-griefer was to become even bigger losers than he was! It is completely possible to just not care about being the most-uber and just play the game to have fun. I play about 5 hours a week. I am not level 60, and wont be for a while, but it doesnt matter because I get to enjoy some wow with my life, not have it BE my life.
That is what I like about wow. With rest, and shorter 5 man instances you can still get to 60 with 2-5 hour sessions of your chosing.
I donno, some things sounded just ... icky for lack of a better word, then this splipped:
... addicted.
--
I actually gave up herbalism because I didn't have time for it (and I wanted to DE the stuff my ex gave me when we broke up >.>)
--
Oops. Well at least he claims to go out with friends. Sorry, but applying things learned at school twoard a game is just
Learning real life skills from war craft seems great, but most people don't spend too much time in the real world when they start WoW.
This write up dosen't reflect anything else than a person with supposed time management skills. Further to that, this is one persons point of view, remember that more than 7 million play this game and to add to that there are several active mmorpgs out on the market.
Don't misunderstand, this is what I guess an ideal casual gamer should be like, but it dosen't change the fact that there is still a growing problem with people lacking life management skills, or for other reasons decide to escape into games. Congratulations for having life management skills, or just not a personality or circumstance that gets you hooked on games/computers/random.
Btw, a tip is, if you use a mount, you can level herbalism to 300/300 in 4-5 hours, so need to drop it, 15 mins a day and you have it in two weeks if not faster.
PS"No I don't blame the computer companies."DS
"WoW doesn't wreck lives, people wreck their own lives. If you have an addictive personality and can't set prorities, then you shouldn't play"
I agree. Which is why I wonder why people try to ban smoking and regulate drinking and gambling. If you get hooked easily, you should just stay away from drinking, smoking and gambling.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
What if your starting your third attempt at (insert boss name here) and you really need a random piece of loot he drops (that you've been trying to get for MONTHS), and furthermore, the other player in your class with more dkp than you isn't here tonight. Even if you haven't eaten or slept and work is in 6 hours, do you really stop playing?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Taken from Wikipedia: "Public policy is a course of action or inaction chosen by public authorities to address a problem. Public policy is expressed in the body of laws, regulations, decisions and actions of government. Policy analysis may be used to formulate public policy and to evaluate its effectiveness. Many public policy analysts earn MPP's and MPA's in public policy schools, while others earn specialized degrees, such as an M.Ed for specializing in educational policy or an MSW for specializing in social welfare policy." Economics, mathematics, political science, communication, and business are all heavily used in Public Policy.
And why the f... you feel like you have to top all other losers? That is the problem by itself!
I gotta get me one 'a dose.
Most people do not play WoW the way this guy plays it. He sees it as organization a team of people, statistics, and a learning experience. He's a leader, but he is by far the minority. Not everyone in WoW can be a leader, and I would say very few people are trying to mentally make the most of playing the game.
What is up with people saying that they've made so many "friends" in WoW? Look, if you meet up with someone in RL that you met in WoW in and you get along, that's more of a friend. Talking to someone in guild chat about how their day at school was is not really personally knowing someone, and definitely not someone I would consider as a real "friend".
It All comes down to self control. I just broke into WoW and can say I'm addicted, but I know when enough is enough. If I have a test tomorrow, I know to study for it. It is like saying that Violent Video Games Cause Violence, Only if you don't have enough self control, and that means the 95% of us who have the self control should suffer? It's is unjust, unfair, and above all stupid to blame the actions of a game on the downfall of your life. In the end, you are ultimately responsible for what you do, no one else is to blame. Like me for instance, i just made a rant, So I am responsible for it's actions *steps off soap box* :)
N. A. Stuart
Millions of people find they aren't addicted to things that a small percentage of other people have addictions to.
True, but don't almost all addicts say "I'm not addicted. I have it under control."? I really don't care whether the guy offering an alternative view of WoW really does have it under control or not because it's not my problem either way, but he could be just another person living in denial.
When they start having people with masters degrees in policy running guilds in a GAME I think it is time to go back to playing Minesweeper.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
An office mate of mine just had his wife tell him that she will leave him if he dosnt start paying attention to the family insted of the game. So for some it does...
"Policy" huh.. And how would I get something tangible out of WoW that is, say, useful?
That's like saying astronauts are people who ride rockest and play around in space...maybe if the degree was actually a liberal arts degree this reply thread would have worked and actually been funny but now you guys are trying to turn a messed up joke into something that gets a laugh and you are just failing. Bottom line... Public Policy is not easy and your joke depends on it being easy so you aren't funny yet.
I see a lot of 'self-control, get some' posts. I don't think that's the key issue though. When you get to the end game, it's about peer pressure, not self-control.
Whether imagined or real, people often feel pressure to be there for their guild, to help out their friends, and generally participate in the social group that has been formed. It's a very basic human trait, and I would say much more difficult to deal with or just switch off. I actually suspect most people, if they were playing WoW or whatever solo, wouldn't have a problem with life balance. Except it's just not possible after a certain point in these types of games, by design.
How many times have _you_ done something stupid that you wouldn't normally do, if your friends weren't around? Stayed up later than you should have, because you were with your friends?
And you can be damned sure they made it that way intentionally. Allow me to compare with City of Heroes, arguably one of the best MMOs for the casual gamer. No items to really worry about, quick missions, excellent party locator, trains and travel powers.
Their goal was to make it as simple as possible to get somewhere because that is not necessarily fun (although travel powers sure as hell are fun). They know they are targeting casual gamers. WoW knows they have the addicts by the balls, so they put in time sinks like having your gryphon fly through a really roundabout (albeit beautiful) route. Or have quests requiring you to run all over the goddamned world. I hope when the Warhammer game comes out it will give the same look and feel of WoW, but with casual gamer-oriented gameplay. They'd have a huge market right from that.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Or you could get a life AND play Warcraft! This is only a hot topic on Slashdot because the game tends to attracts nerds with little to zero social life to begin with. Sure, it's stereotyping, but a lot more of my coder brethren play the game than my non-geek friends. My point is that the people who get obsessed with WoW to the point that it affects their lives negatively probably didn't have much of a life (if at all) to begin with. Personally, I work a full time job AND find about 10 hours a week to devote to video games. I've suspended my WoW account during the Summers because I'd rather be outside, and I'd rather not pay for something that I'm not using. I resume it when the snow hits the ground, and even then I only play moderately. IT IS POSSIBLE! If the WoW junkies would look outside their window and MAYBE even consider leaving the house then this problem would be solved. However, how often did the same junky do this BEFORE WoW? A good friend of mine became a "WoW addict". He was moving to another town and invited some friends over to hang out as a bon voyage get together. He decided to hang out for about 10 minutes before he had to "go meet up with his guildies online" where he sat for 2 hours. He wouldn't be coaxed away from the game. We finally took the cable modem power cord from him and watched a grown man throw a temper tantrum. He took my friend's cell phone and stormed off to his room nearly in tears. He locked himself inside the room and said he wasn't giving the phone back until he got his cable modem cord. My friend ended up forcing the door open, taking his phone back, tossing the cable cord at him and told him that he was pathetic. We haven't spoken to him since. What did he do before this episode? Mostly watch anime and other assorted video games. He wasn't known for having an outgoing social life to begin with, although I will admit that WoW worsened it (he previously was able to stop playing a game to be social with friends that would visit, at least). The game isn't the problem. The personality and social life of the player is. If you or someone you know has an addiction to the game, PLEASE go outside. Get a cup of coffee. Read the newspaper. Talk to that girl you met on campus. Whatever. Fix your life and the overwhelming urge to get some valueless online blue item will fade into obscurity, or you MIGHT even learn to play the game in moderation. You'll be happy you did.
Of course it is quite possible to play a game like World of Warcraft and not allow it to consume one's life. Just as it is possible for non-alcoholics to drink a glass or two of wine and not have it destroy their lives. I play world of warcraft for a few hours a week, and get a great deal of enjoyment out of it. And I still run a business and play with my son and pay attention to my wife and ride my bike three or four times a week etc. I don't really know why people would assume that anyone playing the game is automatically destroyed by it. For the Horde!
A lot of the things you mentioned are physically addictive though. There is a substantative difference between activities that just require control and things that will actually make your body feel differently if you don't have them. I know the difference because I'm a smoker and let me tell you: weed isn't addictive physically either...
There are people with addictive personalities, and then there are people that "try" a drug like heroin or coke thinking that they don't have an addictive personality so they'll be fine. In the spirit of the ongoing joke: in addictive terms the coke sniffs you. Even casual use of some substances leads to a definite, bodily, physical dependency. I'm sure that how much you have to use before you are physically addicted varies from person to person, but that has very little to do with self-control.
Whereas comparing video games to crack in addictive terms is basically absurd.
Let's face another glaringly obvious fact that everyone glosses over: those people who turn off their "real life" to play the game all the time and are "addicted" more than likely find WoW more stimulating than their real life, and that's why they stay there. Everyone has the "I had friends and WoW ruined it all" line, but most of the people who dedicate 8 hours per day on WoW aren't the type that had blossoming social schedules and fun activities to do before they started playing WoW, because they probably wouldn't have begun in the first place.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Do you know for a fact that it's not easy? Because it sounds a lot like it's a glorified poli-sci degree, and I'm pretty sure (on the sliding scale that is university difficulty) that a poli-sci degree isn't a particular taxing one.
We had one "upper management" individual that "frustrated" many of us. So I set about building a "skin" of him for one of the feminine Bot meshes. Then we spent many hours, after work, "dealing with our growing frustation".... All in all, a VERY satisfying experience... (FOR ALL THOSE NON-GAMERS: UT2K4 is Unreal Tournament 2004)
If you didn't play WoW constantly you would not have called what you learned "tangible". :)
mefus
In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
I learned in real life that it's not possible to instantly conjure bread by moving your hands in a circular motion. Although it would be nice if we could help out the one's who lack brains with +int enchants.
I went over to visit him the other day. I must say that I was totally grossed out. He owns his own house, but could no longer open the front door. I had to come in the back through the kitchen. There were dirty dishes piled all over and he didn't even have a clean glass to offer me a drink. There was trash piled everywhere and a little path through the rest of his house. He had two office rolling chairs to sit in. Everything else was covered with trash. He was sleeping on the floor and there were dirty clothes strewn everywhere.
When I went to use the bathroom, there were dozens of empty toilet paper rolls strewn around the floor. When I lifted the lid on the toilet to take a leak, there was a huge turd plugging the drain. I tried to lift the plunger next to the toilet out of it's bucket, but it was stuck to the bucket. I was just thoroughly disgusted. I stayed for a little while longer. On my way out, I told him that he needed to unplug, go buy some trash bags and throw this crap away. He blushed and said he knew. I said yeah, but obviously he wasn't doing anything about it and somebody needed to say something. I doubt I got through to him, but don't know if I can go back.
For every 6 out of 7 MMORPG players that are leading productive, healthly lives, there are those ones that have lost total control of their lives. They have forgotten about the real world and let everything go. They need serious help! I just don't know who is going to give it to them. I don't know if I can help or would just be wasting my time going back to him. I've tried to help others before and get them cleaned up and the next time you go back they're just as bad or worse. How do you help a friend in dire need of a reality check?
Yeah, but once you get hooked on a simple-minded game like WoW, you start to crave the hard stuff! 8)
Seriously, I've been playing Evercrack since it first came out...sometime in the dim past...the nineties. At first, I did go overboard, playing til 4AM, then falling asleep at work. I eventually realized that I had to put a stop to that (I fell asleep while my boss was talking to me 8^), so I set rules for myself: playing time on week days is from 10PM to midnight. On weekends, it's 10PM to...well whenever I want to quit. My goal is to have fun, not to be the most powerful Enchanter or Magician in the game. Killing monsters is just one aspect of the game: I also like to just chat with people, crack jokes while we're slaying MOBs, and get to know the people in my group and my guild.
This arrangement has worked very well for me. I feel that I have a balanced life, holding a job, supporting my wife and 3 kids (well, two have grown up and left home); so why is spending a few hours each day doing something I really enjoy wrong? (I should mention I don't watch TV--something I consider a real waste of time.) Also, I'm using time that would not ordinarily be productive anyway--if anything is an evil influence in my life it's my brain-sucking job that leaves me fit only for activities requiring trivial amounts of thought in the evenings.
People are different. Some people should definitely not be playing these games; if a game is sucking up your real life, then you need to change that. If you can't set limits to the degree of your involvement in the game, then don't play. But do find something else that's fun to do. To quote Dr. Seuss, "Fun is good!"
Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
The real issue is people have different ways of coping with the fact that the world is a shitty place. Some drink, some overeat, some play video games to excess, some take drugs, some go onto slashdot and spew self-righteous crap. This doesn't make people "grown up children" with no self control. Everyone finds some way to make him/herself feel better.
Personally, I prefer people who find ways of making themselves feel better other than shitting on other people. I tend to go outside and do a little yard work which leaves me (and my neighbours) something tangible to appreciate and gives my muscles a workout but I can appreciate the odd hour of a video game on my PS2.
I'm surprised at the self-righteous crap spewing on Slashdot lately in response to everything... maybe it's only one vocal person, but someone out there thinks everything that's wrong in the world is due to people not living up to that person's standards of "maturity". When I look around and see so many people working, paying taxes, raising kids, maintaining cars and homes, etc. I have no clue what this person's talking about. Sure we all get tunnel vision sometimes with our own priorities, but objectifying people as "grown up children" does nothing to help a community.
I plan on getting a Dcotorate in either economics or Public Policy. Undergrad for anything isn't diffiuclt for any degree to be honest. I know people who took philosophy which is heralded to be the most slack of degrees and others who took "relatively more difficult" degrees like mathematics, biomech engineering, compsci, economics(myself) and pure physics...all those people were slack to some degree and none of them seem particularly more gited than the next. That being said, there are very few masters degrees which are actually easy. My master's will be in Economics not Public POlicy but I do know they are closely related. I am not propping it up to be the most amazing degree in the world or anything....I am just making sure people aren't putting it below where it shoudl be...which is an average to above-averagely difficult masters level degree.
You know I read crap like this and I think that everyone wants to be a closet Jack Thompson.
I know this is hard to believe for some people. YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOURSELF.
The game doesn't come along and put a gun to your head and demand that you play it or die.
With few exceptions, like a 1 mile asteroid slamming into the point on the planet you are standing on, nothing can ruin your life unless you allow it to.
We are responsible for what we do in life. Stop being a giant walking vagina and grow a pair and live like you mean it!
Man I remember when this game was new. Then Warcraft two, and then Starcraft.. that game took a lot of time time when I was a kid.
I'm hooked on Monkey Phonics!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I played wow for about 3 months. I tried to get into it... but every time I was walking endlessly or flying or grinding or even raiding the game lacked something... It lacked an in game version of starcraft. Then and only then, will WoW be truly lethal.
This is really the old guns don't kill people, people kill people argument. The 1st article tried to explain how WoW ruined his life. But he ruined it, not WoW. WoW obviously, like anything else, can be used for good or evil. :-)
The first guy made the weird statement that he was in one of the oldest guilds in the games...but since the game is only 2 years old there are literally hundreds if not thousands of guilds that are just as old as many were started on day one. Since that article didn't elaborate on if he meant the guild was playing on other games, one can only assume.
Now this guy is claiming to have a "Masters degree in policy from one of the most difficult schools in the country".
Is there a hyperbole filter here on Slashdot or what?
"Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
I foresee a new videogame -=- a videogame that puts an end to sweatshops!
All we need is to create some software to interface with some robots. Then, we need to take that software and turn it into a game. In this game, we'll make a person's avatar be connected to a robot!
Think of it like this: take a robot that hoes the ground. Interface it with, say, a game much like diablo. Now, every time the user clicks the mouse, the robot hoes! And every time the user moves the character, the robot moves as well! We'll award points for doing a job right. We may even give treasure in the game for doing a task so many times.
The user will see a barbarian/wizard/paladin/whatever in the game. They'll never suspect: robots.
The biggest advantage is that people will be so hooked from the eye-candy and life-like sound that they won't mind hoeing the ground in exchange for a monthly fee.
Tom Sawyer indeed.
I don't play WoW myself, but I liked the South Park episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBBbM2iFQ1g
"*sigh* Go and buy world of warcraft and install it on your computer and join the online sensation before we all murder you...."
rather than "educate users"? These are two very different proposals. One comes across at the typical democrat/liberal/nanny-state (you started it) "protect everyone from every conceivable potential harm, no matter the cost and no matter how probable that outcome is" and the other (your proposal) is a moderately reasonable suggestion.
Of course, it's always amusing when a liberal/busybody/ninny comes out for "personal responsibility" while denigrating the republican/libertiarian/conservative POV.
Its just like the real world.
Would you fill your environment with night-life loving, drinking, dope-using, sex addict people and then expect not to get addicted to at least one of these in a very destructive way ?
Not if you had the nerves of steel.
Same goes. If you hang up with powergamers, level-aspirers, item-crazies, you will have to play that way.
Hang up with casual gamers. easy people. get 2-3 hours of unexpected adventure every night. thats the key to best experience.
a time will come that you will be logging in to have some laugh at witty shit that is being talked in chat channels.
Read radical news here
When I was playing competative soccer in Jr high and we went to State it was becuase I was playing soccer 4 to 5 hours a day during the school year. My father is one of the best in his field making a good living doing what few can make any living at (property liquidation). Why? Because he loves it and is willing to do it more hours a day than most. Talk to the best at anything they spend a lot of time doing it. And probably at some point durring their growth at what ever they do they didn't have much of a life.
Commenting on addiction in World of Warcraft is not necessarily addictive, World of Warcraft commentors say.
The problem as I see it is not just the person. The game is terrible for playing casually. I use to play UT, Quake 3, Counter strike, and I could have a quick 20-30 minute game there before going out. Now with World of Warcraft, I can't do anything productive in that time. Maybe 1 game of Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch (however you need atleast 160 hours of each to get decent items of equipment from there). Any other raid instance takes 2 hours minimum, not including finding people to play the game.
Blizzard have invented a great game engine in terms of exploring the world, however they may have shot themselves in the foot with the gameplay. I know MMOs have always traditionally needed a lot of time, but we're talking about 6 million people playing this game. How many of those are going to pay their monthly subscription fee and see no progress of their character, with the expansion out in 2 weeks. Probably only the weaker minded college-age players which from the forums, looks to be the minority of players.
Nothing costs nothing
I've never *seen* so many on-topic posts. This page just smells of nerdiness ... like patchouli but worse and, btw, you ain't seen nothing yet. Buncha addicts
Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
It could partially be a problem with the game, if it requires excessive amounts of time to be amusing enough for the majority of players.
Both games mentioned are open-ended games. There are plenty of fun activities to be had at any level. I know many people who never get past 30 or so, and play more than me - they just enjoy where they are at. People wreck their own lives. People need to take personal responsibility for their actions.
The idea that by playing an MMO you are learning valuable skills you will apply to your real life job is a novel one but it's somewhat of an exercise in self justification. You'd probably learn better skills working in McDonalds as a manager and you'd make more money too!
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I support spreading santorum
Seriously, In an interview they asked some questions based on leadership that are occuring currently in my life. I litterally started the answer with "Don't laugh" And went into explaining Ventrilo and organizing 40 male/female players aged 15-40 into an organized group of people and my major role I took in being the Maintank and Raid leader.
... other people :)
Of course I did not mention the foul language and sexual innuendos that are constantly spouted by
In Soviet Russia, lives wreck WoW!
Dammit, UtherMon is on a date, we were supposed to go on a Strat run tonight!
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
So WoW doesn't wholly consume your life if you have an obscure set of life circumstances. Who'd have thunk it?
Sometimes I find myself playing 20-25 hours in a week and I think to myself 'wtf' and cut back or stop completely for a while. Generally I average 10hours a week - 2x 4hr 40man raids + some organisational time before them. My guild sets pretty strict time limits on when we end a raid. Im decked out in BWL gear too with only that much time investment. I don't really see 10hours as a problem, and it's pretty cheap entertainment.
I think my guild is a bit of an exception among raiding guilds, though.