Wow the programmer is strong in this one. See as it flails about as its demons are exorcised...
>No, they see it everywhere, because it IS everywhere. Nobody cares about competence anymore, they want to know how much something costs. Not its value, but its price.
Ah yes, the old "just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't out to get me". True, people do not care about incompetence these days. But it does not mean that more than 5% of your team is incompetent at any given time. I'm tired of people seeing incompetence like the sixth sense boy sees dead people. The problem is many programmers (such as you will later demonstrate), dismiss perfectly competent people lacking a particular programmer's "specific knowledge" for no other reason than it's Tuesday. Programming is the only knowledge profession where nebulous communication consistently trumps effective communication. It is permitted this way so programmers "who know more than you" due to their complete inability to effectively discuss their brilliance, don't take their bits and go home. No one actually wants to have a competent discussion with a programmer, because it's a lot easier to just let them do it their way, sink or swim. Of course, YMMV, I happily work with competent effective communicators, some of whom happen to be genius programmers by day.
>They can be programmed to do so for specific input. Then the CEO calls you and tells you to remove it because that one extra click on the app is ruining his sex life, or something.
Or you know, the far more frequent, programmer made an oopsie.
It's a perfectly reasonable and apt metaphor. They asked google to redraw the parameters of Scientology searches to provide biased results. While gerrymandering is a political term by definition, the parallel of the metaphor is indisputable. Google approximates search results by 'secret' informational districts and provides 'unbiased' (or in this case 'biased) results based on totals in those districts. This is also known as the google algorithm. Similarly to voting districts it is constantly tweaked by various methods to provide the correct result (wether than be biased or unbiased, the bias is implied by the term GERRYMANDERING)
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gerrymander 1: to divide (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible 2: to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group
I'm sure you've been telling everyone what the difference between a simile and a metaphor is since high school right?
>No, he did something to his own PS3...and illegally release the data required to permit others....so yes, as a matter of fact, GeoHot played chicken with Sony (and lost I might add).
>I do not care about their fiduciary duty anymore than I care about how you pay your bills
No, but you blame me for 'paying my bills' before agreeing with your twisted ideal as to how the world should work?
> BTW their change did not secure the PS3, modified firmwares are still available No- their change made Sony less liable in agreements with publishers, retailers and developers, in the case of modified firmwares. This is called fiduciary duty. Which, you know, you ought to care about if you are working stiff for an actual business with shareholders or depend on customers that are. You should thank your lucky stars a company like Sony takes their fiduciary duty seriously....
without fiduciary duty, there would be no corporate jobs (in fact no corporations at all), compensation, shares to buy to beat inflation, retirement savings, insurance on your car...... I'm sure you'd get a long fine building your local community's version of an OUYA (which of course, doesn't play the same games as the OUYA from the next town over). But that's ok. Back when I was a kid we made our own games and that's how we liked it.
Christ the sheer amount of "moron juice" oozing from the cavities you call a brain is astounding. Maybe you should just drop this as it's clearly too heavy of a topic for you to carry.
>They had a choice to make and they chose against the consumer.
I don't think choice means what you think it means. They had a fiduciary duty to close the security hole. The only way to secure the PS3 was to remove the attack vector, which required Linux. Sony did this to prevent illegal exploit, and potential civil and criminal liability (DMCA).
If you are going to blame anyone for this mess, blame GeoHot, who broke US, Canadian and Japanese law and forced Sony to remove the feature from all future firmwares.
You sir are the one that bought "trusted computing" while still expecting "untrusted computing".
I'm not using weasel words: you are somehow expecting an orange when you bought an pear. There is no in between. Legally you do not own the encrypted operating system software licensed to you. When that license was publicly broken, Sony had NO CHOICE but to remove the feature, lest they be opened up to countless liabilities and lawsuits.
You're right about one thing, when the survival of their trusted computing platform and the company is on the line- they do not care about you the consumer, and some backwater feature they have zero legal obligation to support. I am ok with this, and I do not wither away in my own bitterness over it. In fact, at no time as a Linux professional, did I care to install YD on one of my many PS3s, mainly because I was fully aware of the complete and utter pointlessness of it all.
The EULA you "signed" digitally permits this. Furthermore, any argument predicated on you "physically owning the hardware" is moot. You do not, nor did you ever receive a license to access the hypervisor, to which access via Linux had to be removed to retain the "trusted computing" aspect of the platform.
If you think you bought the right to use a console's software (ie it's hypervisor, or a feature which runs in software on top of it) in any way you wish, you were grossly misinformed as a consumer. The only people aching over this (still ironically) are the ones who least understand what they bought, and what they received.
I DO expect more out of Linux gurus, who it would seem currently have not yet grown beyond utility balls and sand buckets.
Having a legal contract to shareholders, publishers, developers and retailers, and the legal framework through which to remove compromised features IS NOT EVIL. It's called responsible business practices and jurisprudence.
>How do you square that with the fact that local governments don't exactly have the spare change to fund major infrastructure changes? In my rural town, there is a debate as to whether we should unpave some roads to decrease maintenance costs (the costs then go to the vehicle owner in terms of increased damage and wear and tear).
Isn't that brilliant. I wonder what will happen in this responsible, well thought-out race to the bottom: Paved roads will feature even more congestion. Dirt roads which were formerly paved roads will generate even less economic activity. Trains won't run on time because they will be packed to the brim! People will stay home and buy nothing because they can't get around. Deflation, here we come!
How can I put this to you? Sony removed a feature which provided a platform for compromising the DRM of the system (Illegal in the US and many other countries I might add). They had a fiduciary duty to remove that feature and were perfectly in their legal right to do so.
This may rub you the wrong way. I am a Playstation die-hard and even I understand why OtherOS could no longer be permitted. Sony didn't do this because they were greedy, or because they hate linux, or because they are evil. They did it because otherwise they would be liable.
It's really too bad this comment is buried on slashdot, because it seems Sony tried to do everyone a solid and it blew up in their face a bit. So if you want blame anyone blame GeoHot. But who can really? He was just doing what we computer geeks do. Sony just did what it had to do and I can assure you they will not make that mistake again.
Only I've always felt this is a shallow interpretation masquerading as deep thought. How human to suppose that it is his critique, (as if he'd care to)! Clark Kent is not a critique but purposely unassuming and all the characteristics of Superman run amok, normally veiled by his tremendous power. Clark is what Superman is when you strip away his powers. He has to be told constantly he is "not one of them", that he should not forget his responsibility to them or his powers. Clark Kent is Superman without the weight of the entire earth on his shoulders. It's what's left.
This is why Lois loves both Kent and Superman. If Clark were just some alien construct, a species in review, this would not be the case.
I only disagree, because there is definitely a groundswell out there for an alternative to VMWare. In practice VMWare isn't as stable as it's claimed (although it is quite resilient) it comes down to dollars, and there are legions unwilling to pay...
I attribute at least the Hashimoto quote to partial quotes out of context, he said it would not be removed from current revisions of firmware. Obviously this changed for the 4.x firmware and was likely far above the product manager's head.
At no point did Kaz Hirai say or commit to OtherOS as an advertised feature for the duration of the consoles life, in fact at the time of the sources you provided the writing was on the wall.
You're conflating physical hardware with software terms of service. One which you agreed to allow them to change the terms at any time.
Also I wouldn't call what Sony did "Advertising OtherOS". In fact it was not an advertised feature at all beyond a small little Yellow Dog Pengiun on the side of the original box.
I didn't realize a quick settlement with EMC was getting their "asses handed to them". This lawsuit was very much debatable as IBM may very well have invented the technology in the 1970s but did not patent software (aka prior art). (Isn't that the sort of attitude we seem to extoll in 2013?). As far as I can tell, the quality of the patent was THE principal issue, which proving in court is a gamble. IBM does not gamble. At some point, (especially to IBM in 1999 whom was hurting at the time), it was completely pointless and less cost effective to litigate. So again, I guess the kid who doesn't show up for the street fight at 3pm because he conceded "got his ass handed to him".
Maybe you are just giving them a bit too much trust period. Personally, I don't think that Sony really lost my trust at all. OtherOS was an innovative but utterly useless feature. If you bought a PS3 to have a cheap CELL based LINUX server, you pretty much would have been disappointed whether the feature was offered or not (no RSX access, limited resource access). I'm not entirely sure what you expected to get out of this feature.
They were very upfront about backwards compatibility on PS3. From day zero they said this was a temporary feature to transition from Ps2 to PS3. It was also a huge reason for the cost overrun of the PS3 (EEs were still not cheap chips in 2007).
I still have a 60GB FAT and I still use it, but let's face it. There is nothing stopping me from importing/buying used ps2 should my PS3 die (and I do still have a PS2 slim). Sony did not take away a feature here.... they stopped offering it as planned, as ps2 games became obsolete in Region 1 and 2. (Ps2 is selling strong in South America still).
You know who lost my trust? Microsoft, when they charged me a 2nd subscription fee to access Netflix. When they made joypads propietary for no reason at all, and when they farked everyone over to buy a non-standard HDD, offered no HDMI and then tried to sell everyone HD-DVDs.
Slashdot Mirror
Wow the programmer is strong in this one. See as it flails about as its demons are exorcised...
>No, they see it everywhere, because it IS everywhere. Nobody cares about competence anymore, they want to know how much something costs. Not its value, but its price.
Ah yes, the old "just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't out to get me". True, people do not care about incompetence these days. But it does not mean that more than 5% of your team is incompetent at any given time. I'm tired of people seeing incompetence like the sixth sense boy sees dead people. The problem is many programmers (such as you will later demonstrate), dismiss perfectly competent people lacking a particular programmer's "specific knowledge" for no other reason than it's Tuesday. Programming is the only knowledge profession where nebulous communication consistently trumps effective communication. It is permitted this way so programmers "who know more than you" due to their complete inability to effectively discuss their brilliance, don't take their bits and go home. No one actually wants to have a competent discussion with a programmer, because it's a lot easier to just let them do it their way, sink or swim. Of course, YMMV, I happily work with competent effective communicators, some of whom happen to be genius programmers by day.
>They can be programmed to do so for specific input. Then the CEO calls you and tells you to remove it because that one extra click on the app is ruining his sex life, or something.
Or you know, the far more frequent, programmer made an oopsie.
=! != DOES NOT EQUAL
It's a perfectly reasonable and apt metaphor. They asked google to redraw the parameters of Scientology searches to provide biased results. While gerrymandering is a political term by definition, the parallel of the metaphor is indisputable. Google approximates search results by 'secret' informational districts and provides 'unbiased' (or in this case 'biased) results based on totals in those districts. This is also known as the google algorithm. Similarly to voting districts it is constantly tweaked by various methods to provide the correct result (wether than be biased or unbiased, the bias is implied by the term GERRYMANDERING)
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gerrymander
1: to divide (a territorial unit) into election districts to give one political party an electoral majority in a large number of districts while concentrating the voting strength of the opposition in as few districts as possible
2: to divide (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group
I'm sure you've been telling everyone what the difference between a simile and a metaphor is since high school right?
You could always read, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress for a twist on what you suspect.
>No, he did something to his own PS3 ...and illegally release the data required to permit others....so yes, as a matter of fact, GeoHot played chicken with Sony (and lost I might add).
>I do not care about their fiduciary duty anymore than I care about how you pay your bills
No, but you blame me for 'paying my bills' before agreeing with your twisted ideal as to how the world should work?
> BTW their change did not secure the PS3, modified firmwares are still available
No- their change made Sony less liable in agreements with publishers, retailers and developers, in the case of modified firmwares. This is called fiduciary duty. Which, you know, you ought to care about if you are working stiff for an actual business with shareholders or depend on customers that are. You should thank your lucky stars a company like Sony takes their fiduciary duty seriously....
without fiduciary duty, there would be no corporate jobs (in fact no corporations at all), compensation, shares to buy to beat inflation, retirement savings, insurance on your car...... I'm sure you'd get a long fine building your local community's version of an OUYA (which of course, doesn't play the same games as the OUYA from the next town over). But that's ok. Back when I was a kid we made our own games and that's how we liked it.
Christ the sheer amount of "moron juice" oozing from the cavities you call a brain is astounding. Maybe you should just drop this as it's clearly too heavy of a topic for you to carry.
>They had a choice to make and they chose against the consumer.
I don't think choice means what you think it means. They had a fiduciary duty to close the security hole. The only way to secure the PS3 was to remove the attack vector, which required Linux. Sony did this to prevent illegal exploit, and potential civil and criminal liability (DMCA).
If you are going to blame anyone for this mess, blame GeoHot, who broke US, Canadian and Japanese law and forced Sony to remove the feature from all future firmwares.
You sir are the one that bought "trusted computing" while still expecting "untrusted computing".
I'm not using weasel words: you are somehow expecting an orange when you bought an pear. There is no in between. Legally you do not own the encrypted operating system software licensed to you. When that license was publicly broken, Sony had NO CHOICE but to remove the feature, lest they be opened up to countless liabilities and lawsuits.
You're right about one thing, when the survival of their trusted computing platform and the company is on the line- they do not care about you the consumer, and some backwater feature they have zero legal obligation to support. I am ok with this, and I do not wither away in my own bitterness over it. In fact, at no time as a Linux professional, did I care to install YD on one of my many PS3s, mainly because I was fully aware of the complete and utter pointlessness of it all.
The EULA you "signed" digitally permits this. Furthermore, any argument predicated on you "physically owning the hardware" is moot. You do not, nor did you ever receive a license to access the hypervisor, to which access via Linux had to be removed to retain the "trusted computing" aspect of the platform.
If you think you bought the right to use a console's software (ie it's hypervisor, or a feature which runs in software on top of it) in any way you wish, you were grossly misinformed as a consumer. The only people aching over this (still ironically) are the ones who least understand what they bought, and what they received.
I DO expect more out of Linux gurus, who it would seem currently have not yet grown beyond utility balls and sand buckets.
Having a legal contract to shareholders, publishers, developers and retailers, and the legal framework through which to remove compromised features IS NOT EVIL. It's called responsible business practices and jurisprudence.
Other OS was removed for fiduciary duty to developers, as it is used as a successful attach vector: phase one to actively exploit the PS3 hypervisor.
It is nothing more and nothing less. I'm tired of fanboys projecting evil or other nebulous intent on to Sony when the truth is plainly evident.
Indeed, in case you hadn't guessed i was being sarcastic. :D
The same reason my kid does. To start a club you're not a member of.
>How do you square that with the fact that local governments don't exactly have the spare change to fund major infrastructure changes? In my rural town, there is a debate as to whether we should unpave some roads to decrease maintenance costs (the costs then go to the vehicle owner in terms of increased damage and wear and tear).
Isn't that brilliant. I wonder what will happen in this responsible, well thought-out race to the bottom: Paved roads will feature even more congestion. Dirt roads which were formerly paved roads will generate even less economic activity. Trains won't run on time because they will be packed to the brim! People will stay home and buy nothing because they can't get around. Deflation, here we come!
How can I put this to you? Sony removed a feature which provided a platform for compromising the DRM of the system (Illegal in the US and many other countries I might add). They had a fiduciary duty to remove that feature and were perfectly in their legal right to do so.
This may rub you the wrong way. I am a Playstation die-hard and even I understand why OtherOS could no longer be permitted. Sony didn't do this because they were greedy, or because they hate linux, or because they are evil. They did it because otherwise they would be liable.
It's really too bad this comment is buried on slashdot, because it seems Sony tried to do everyone a solid and it blew up in their face a bit. So if you want blame anyone blame GeoHot. But who can really? He was just doing what we computer geeks do. Sony just did what it had to do and I can assure you they will not make that mistake again.
Only I've always felt this is a shallow interpretation masquerading as deep thought. How human to suppose that it is his critique, (as if he'd care to)! Clark Kent is not a critique but purposely unassuming and all the characteristics of Superman run amok, normally veiled by his tremendous power. Clark is what Superman is when you strip away his powers. He has to be told constantly he is "not one of them", that he should not forget his responsibility to them or his powers. Clark Kent is Superman without the weight of the entire earth on his shoulders. It's what's left.
This is why Lois loves both Kent and Superman. If Clark were just some alien construct, a species in review, this would not be the case.
I only disagree, because there is definitely a groundswell out there for an alternative to VMWare. In practice VMWare isn't as stable as it's claimed (although it is quite resilient) it comes down to dollars, and there are legions unwilling to pay...
MBAs and Lawyers. No need to be so specific.
If you bought your ps3 to put linux on it, I'm truly sorry for your loss.
I attribute at least the Hashimoto quote to partial quotes out of context, he said it would not be removed from current revisions of firmware. Obviously this changed for the 4.x firmware and was likely far above the product manager's head.
At no point did Kaz Hirai say or commit to OtherOS as an advertised feature for the duration of the consoles life, in fact at the time of the sources you provided the writing was on the wall.
I always say "Talking to reddit is like talking to my tween daughters who think they know everything".
>First Sony said a couple of months before the Other OS removal they wouldn't be removing it.
Source please. Sony NEVER said this. EVER.
You're conflating physical hardware with software terms of service. One which you agreed to allow them to change the terms at any time.
Also I wouldn't call what Sony did "Advertising OtherOS". In fact it was not an advertised feature at all beyond a small little Yellow Dog Pengiun on the side of the original box.
I didn't realize a quick settlement with EMC was getting their "asses handed to them". This lawsuit was very much debatable as IBM may very well have invented the technology in the 1970s but did not patent software (aka prior art). (Isn't that the sort of attitude we seem to extoll in 2013?). As far as I can tell, the quality of the patent was THE principal issue, which proving in court is a gamble. IBM does not gamble. At some point, (especially to IBM in 1999 whom was hurting at the time), it was completely pointless and less cost effective to litigate. So again, I guess the kid who doesn't show up for the street fight at 3pm because he conceded "got his ass handed to him".
http://books.google.ca/books?id=ypJmzqt7JdUC&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=AS/400+Data+general&source=bl&ots=PozEgSVRW6&sig=k07JHo7KYmCcV4wnbDXoDtNdAzQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eje7UbvzJo7e8wTlhIDYCQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=AS%2F400%20Data%20general&f=false
On phone so will be brief.
Kaz hirai said backwards compat would not be all on all skus prior to launch
Ps3 controller is mini usb as in non proprietary.
Netflix requires xbox gold.
I know he data breach is not the same one
Just wanted to inform you that not just Sony has been breeched. http://games.slashdot.org/story/13/06/10/163230/hacker-releases-17tb-treasure-trove-of-gaming-info
Maybe you are just giving them a bit too much trust period. Personally, I don't think that Sony really lost my trust at all. OtherOS was an innovative but utterly useless feature. If you bought a PS3 to have a cheap CELL based LINUX server, you pretty much would have been disappointed whether the feature was offered or not (no RSX access, limited resource access). I'm not entirely sure what you expected to get out of this feature.
They were very upfront about backwards compatibility on PS3. From day zero they said this was a temporary feature to transition from Ps2 to PS3. It was also a huge reason for the cost overrun of the PS3 (EEs were still not cheap chips in 2007).
I still have a 60GB FAT and I still use it, but let's face it. There is nothing stopping me from importing/buying used ps2 should my PS3 die (and I do still have a PS2 slim). Sony did not take away a feature here.... they stopped offering it as planned, as ps2 games became obsolete in Region 1 and 2. (Ps2 is selling strong in South America still).
You know who lost my trust? Microsoft, when they charged me a 2nd subscription fee to access Netflix. When they made joypads propietary for no reason at all, and when they farked everyone over to buy a non-standard HDD, offered no HDMI and then tried to sell everyone HD-DVDs.