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Former Scientologist: CoS Told Brin It Wanted Only "Good" Search Results
An anonymous reader writes "Former Scientologist at the highest level Geir Isene reveals that he was brought in to educate top Scientology officials about the Internet, and learned that they had met personally with Google's Sergey Brin (YouTube video), asking him if it were possible for the search giant to filter results so that only positive information about the church would be returned on the word 'Scientology.' You can imagine how that went over. Isene also says that he begged the church's officials to give him a full day to explain the Internet to them before they met with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which had regularly criticized the church for its stands against Internet freedom. Apparently, the church is missing Isene's counsel, because just a few days ago, the EFF put the Church of Scientology into its 'Takedown Hall of Shame.' Last month Geir published his journey 'From Independent Scientologist to Just Me' under the GPL v3 license, recognising how being an open source advocate helped with that."
Wait! Wait wait wait....
Let me get my popcorn!
Anyone want a beer while I'm up?
ad words
Those bastards shut down Julf Helsingius anon.penet.fi remailer back in '96 and we'll never forgive them for that! The internet is not in any way new to them!
Why would Brin waste his time on these idiots? Grow a fucking spine already.
Clearly, the CoS understands at this point how much control places like Google have over people's web traffic, and they're quite aware that Google can gerrymander the results. Brin seems to mistake understanding the internet as a technology to understanding the technology as a means of control.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Is that given recent exploits by Snowden who is making a name for himself by exposing governmental spying, people that leave the Church of Scientology are treated exactly the same way.
You leave your "religion" because it's a sham, and then you're harassed and attacked anywhere. Amazing.
Thankfully I gave up on religion at 13, I can't imagine being lured into a cult like this. That said, Scientologists are stupider than I thought.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
The 'Church' of scientology was started by a bad science fiction writer who said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."
It's a complete sham and a fraud.
We're somehow supposed to believe there's thousands of alien souls occupying us? This magic machine you have is going to cure my problems when it has no basis in science?
Seriously, just look at Tom Cruise and his claims that anti-depressants don't work. You think Katie Holmes went running away because of any other reason than the idiocy there?
The CoS is a joke, and how any country has still given them tax exempt status is beyond me. Those idiots standing outside offering you a 'personality test' are just recruiting for the cult, and should be punched in the nose.
Posting as AC to keep these whack-jobs the fuck away from me.
OK, I try to keep an open mind and really don't care what people believe so long as A) they don't get into people's faces about it and B) the message is peaceful.
I don't even mind their big back-story about aliens and what-not. Ignoring the fact that a sci-fi writer wrote it, who's to say that's any more laughable than other stuff. And you could say that maybe he was just inspired by the spoken word or universal secrets to write his other stuff, which isn't that much more implausible than where many of the stories for the Bible came from.
But... in practice Scientology is making it quite hard to like or respect them. Between the lawsuits, making people's lives hell for leaving or speaking out against them, the pay-to-learn thing they have going on, etc it's hard for me to say "fine whatever"
And now this... sigh. It's just making it hard to respect you. I mean, lots of people HATE the Catholic church but you don't see them trying to stifle people's thoughts and comments about it.
I think it's pretty clear where the CoS stands on internet freedom, and what they want from you if they ask you for a meeting. Why would anyone in their right mind even talk with these people? What, do you think you're going to REASON with them?!? Do you want to give them a chance to threaten you *in person*?!?
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Lemme check if I can find it on google maps ...
Nothing is perfect in the world and they are tradeoffs. If you believe that something is perfect (terrestrially speaking (I don't care to debate if God Exists or is perfect or not, today)) Then you are probably wrong.
Everything has an up side and down side to it, whether or not the upside make it worth it or not, is open to debate. That is why we have free speech, it is so we can be allowed to look at the universe with our own objectives and try to measure if the up side or down side is worth it. However Free Speech often comes with broadcasting misinformation, outward lies, or just ignorants. In order to keep free speech working we need to keep our education levels up so we can help spot this.
Propaganda, is sending one side of the issue and blocking debate about it. If your side is well thought out and expressed, there could be a lot less idiocracy about the topic, but it is limited and prevents growth, however this is often abused and used to spread lies as well.
Saying you should block all sites that say something negative about your beliefs is trying to say I want you to be part of our propaganda engine. And restricting free speech.
Now Google biggest value is in Good Will, an accounting term to express Brand Recognition and Trust. If Google were to degrade their customers trust, they will go to different sites and ruen Google.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
asking him if it were possible for the search giant to filter results so that only positive information about the church
Naive, perhaps, but not at all surprising. I'll bet other businessmen have sidled up to the Google twins and Schmidt and conferences and asked for the same.
Electronic Frontier Foundation, which had regularly criticized the church for its stands against Internet freedom. Apparently, the church is missing Isene's counsel, because just a few days ago, the EFF put the Church of Scientology into its 'Takedown Hall of Shame.' Last month
This is all EFF is good for anymore creating childish lists that have no bearing on anything. I have a hard time wanting to support them after reading there questionable involvements with Big named companies, among other things I have read about, and before you go off I do read more then just one source to try and see if there is some bias against the EFF.
As far as the this idiot cult, this only proves my theory that because people can allow themselves to be brainwashed into believing this crap, it is possible to create government agents or outsiders to kill or become brainwashed into committing far worse.
I wouldn't turn it down. Should be a good laugh.
Let me fix that for 'ya, Geir: You and your underlings do only good things.
was last Sundays episode of Venture Bros.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
You talk to people like this for the audience. You won't convince the deluded person talking to you about enrams*, but you might get people who are watching to think about how mind boggling stupid it is. That IF you are polite and dissect the argument.
*At least not during the conversation. Hopefully it will add a grain of sand to getting those people to actually think.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I guess it depends on who you are. The BBC documentary was quite interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_Me
It is what it is.
If you can plan it, keep a 9 volt battery and a damp cloth in a pocket first. If they hook you up to an e meter, damp your pocketed hand periodically apply the 9v contacts to your palm.
Totally fuck with their heads.
I think it's pretty clear where the CoS stands on internet freedom, and what they want from you if they ask you for a meeting. Why would anyone in their right mind even talk with these people? What, do you think you're going to REASON with them?!? Do you want to give them a chance to threaten you *in person*?!?
Wouldn't you? Probably wide-eyed optimism is the best explanation for why such meeting happened, but if there was any chance at all in getting them to see reason, and you had the time (or it was your mandate to try getting people like them to see reason, as is the case with the EFF), wouldn't you take the time to try? I would.
And who cares if they threatened me? Google isn't doing anything illegal with how they filter their search results, and they're within their rights to keep the algorithm by which it's tabulated proprietary. If CoS doesn't like that there's lots of anti-scientology hits on google, they can buy the ad word, or they can do something about why people are posting this stuff against them in the first place. Or they could try to Google bomb themselves, but that probably wouldn't go down very well if it were made public....
Besides which, if you search Google for "church of scientology", the first hit is their own website. It's not like Google is deliberately treating them badly...
Disclaimer: I'm an atheist. I'm going to sound like an atheist ( because I'm going to attack Scientology ) - But please do understand the broader message.
And the message is very simple.
Any organization/group which sells bullshit will be criticized. The only way for the organization to grow is to continue selling bullshit. The organization cannot sell bullshit if sane people criticize it. Or put sane arguments against it. Thus the only way for this organization to survive is to do one of the three below:
- Supress opposition to their bullshit to the extent possible ( and they can go to quite an extent - especially in the case of totalitarian religions or totalitarian governments )
- Taint the person criticising the organization
- Both of the above.
Religion has been guilty of this all along.
So have all totalitarian governments
There is nothing to be surprised about this. There is only one thing to be sad about - that the members/followers of such organizations cannot 'see' the bullshit they are being sold.
Except that these meetings were apparently private. Speaking personally, there is no way would I meet with anyone from the CoS without at least several witnesses, legal counsel, and someone video recording the whole thing.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Money. CoS is a powerful group. They have people in all levels of government and the law, not just here but all across the world.
Will you still be laughing when they make false claims about what happened in the meeting, release edited clips from it to make you look bad, and file a criminal complaint claiming you physically threatened them during the meeting?
If you're gonna pick a cult.. errr... religion at least choose one with kick ass holidays and days off work.
Wouldn't you?
Absolutely NOT. Those guys do not fuck around. When they come after you, it's not a game.
Why don't you ask John Sweeney what can happen after an "innocent meeting" with CoS officials?
And who cares if they threatened me?
They can (and often do) do a *helluva* lot more than that. They've had people put in prison, ruined lives, destroyed careers. You would be amazed at what they can do to you if you get on their bad side.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Ahhh, Google Glass makes sense now. :D
[John]
Shit better not happen!
Burzrzrzrzrzr...
Last month Geir published his journey 'From Independent Scientologist to Just Me' under the GPL v3 license, recognising how being an open source advocate helped with that.
Does that mean he consider it to be "source code", not a "document"?
Wouldn't it have made more sense to use e.g. The GNU FDL instead?
That is fairly complicated, since it has been demonstrated that E Meters are sensitive to pressure. Squeezing the probes would be more effective.
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
That's right, rather than 5 minutes, it took about half that time for a Silon to post "No nore silly than jeebus!!".
Yes.
We know.
"I can't take Scientology seriously. It's the belief that humans were brought to earth by aliens on a spaceship carried by two massive lizards, which landed in a volcano and dispersed humans throughout the world. Then the aliens take off, and the lizards go and hide under the sea in massive caves.
Add two Italian plumbers to that and you've got the first five levels of Super Mario! "
Scientology.
Taking the heat off of Jehovah's Witnesses since 1952.
It's a complete sham and a fraud.
I would say the same about any religion. I don't regard christianity or islam or judaism as any more sane. They are all deceitful enterprises. The only difference between a church and a cult is scale.
Seriously, just look at Tom Cruise and his claims that anti-depressants don't work.
Look at the catholic church's claims that abstinence is a realistic option for birth control. Or the various claims that is a punishment from god for . A lot of religious doctrine from the mainstream religions is absolutely just as bonkers.
The CoS is a joke, and how any country has still given them tax exempt status is beyond me.
Again, I would say the same about any church or cult. As nuts as scientology is, I don't regard any other church as being more or less worthy of special tax treatment.
I used to be fucked up on Scientology, now I'm fucked up on Open Source
"Travolta hospitalized with critically low E-meter reading!"
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/Onion/travoltahospital.html
Scientology is positively a brainwashing cult!
Gerrymander? I think I know what that word means. Redraw electoral district boundaries to gain unfair political advantage.
Consider the generalization that results from striking "electoral" from this definition. The result set from a search engine has two distinct "districts". One is called "above the fold": results in the top 700 pixels of the page, which appear on most PC monitors without having to scroll. The other is called "the first page": the top ten results that appear without having to click "next page". A search engine has power to manipulate which results fit inside or outside these boundaries, and it becomes "gerrymandering" when its operator uses this power to push an agenda.
In many countries the mainstream churches were or (as in the US) are an import social factor in the battle against poverty and much of their money is going to 'Worthy Causes' that save the community at large from a lot of grief.
Take one look at the vatican with all their gold leaf and artwork and fancy architecture and tell me that they are truly concerned about directing their money towards fighting poverty. While I don't deny that many churches do indeed do some worthy charity work, I've never seen one that wasn't hugely hypocritical about what they do with their money. Most of it goes towards salaries, buildings, and other tangible trappings of wealth that have little to do with charity but a lot to do with making religious officials powerful and the institutions wealthy.
I did try to talk to them once. Unlike every other religion where I have done a similar thing I was prodded to either pay for some auditing and pay for the intro training. I was curious about their religion as well as a number of other ones so I figured what better way than to talk to actual representatives of each. I was well aware of the CoS's tactics but didn't know how much to actually believe but after the brief shitty movie and sales pitch they didn't provide any info other than trying to get you to buy some stuff.
Time to offend someone
They also have an excellent buffet service.
They're a criminal cult who has repeatedly engaged in activities which would have long ago brought down a RICO indictment on any other organization.
Germany gets this one quite right. Scientology is not a religion.
So glad Geir Isene is speaking up! Thanks for raising this issue. Of course, EFF is right on top of things, recently putting Scientology in it's 'Takedown Hall of Shame' :)
~ Mary McConnell