Re:PHP definitely does not follow the KISS princip
on
A Decade of PHP
·
· Score: 1
Yes, that is a commonly heard complaint. "It has a low barrier to entry, and does not force you to do things correctly."
Oh well- that doesn't mean that it doesn't do really good things when people actually know how to use it.
I can still churn out good sites, good features, good logic faster than anyone else I know who use other languages.
And once again, if you are having problems with stored procedures, I would say you are doing something wrong. I use them fairly frequently, without problem. (SQL Server)
Version 4.5 was painful- it would suck up all of your memory, then die a painful death. But versions 5, 6 and 7 have been very stable. 6 and 7 are extremely fast.
I think it is a very good product. Not discounting the usability of other products, but this one mistakenly has a bad reputation.
Re:PHP definitely does not follow the KISS princip
on
A Decade of PHP
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Well, your anecdote of 2 ColdFusion sites that crashed doesn't really prove much.
I've been working with ColdFusion for about 5 years now. My sites don't crash- and I get 10-20 million hits per month. Not huge, but a pretty good number. (No...this is not the site that is in my sig...)
I *might* get 2 or 3 'unhandled exceptions' in a day. And those are always caused by search engines that are hitting templates with bad queries. It is interesting to see the queries they send, "hmm...why did they decide to make the usernumber 99A4 this time instead of 994" the error is caused because *I* foolishly forgot to put a val() function around the number in a query. So I fix it, and move on.
If the person running the server has half of a brain, their sites won't crash. I've used ColdFusion from version 3, on up to 7. And they always put in great new features and capabilities that other web programmers need to work hours to duplicate- but for ColdFusion it is a built-in function.
Yes, people have been making fun of it for years- and it reached a peak when FuckedCompany was complaining about it a lot. But there are so many good things about it a lot of people turn a blind eye to. Hell, the Verity engine itself is worth the entire package price. I can set up a searchable index of PDF, Word, Text, files in about 30 minutes. This is stuff that people want, and really appreciate.
Well, actually a LOT happens when you throw the computer/monitor (or television) in the Dumpster in California.
Because I am somewhat of a freak, I have actually toured our local dump, and asked these very questions.
First, the money that California collects goes to the local landfills. Each landfill becomes a collection point for these electronic devices. They also set up collection points throughout the city. Disposing of electronic devices (new or old) is now free...(because of the tax.)
The landfill collects these things, and then calls in a contractor (hired by the state) who will pick this stuff up, and recycle as much as possible. Then they will dispose of the rest of it properly.
So, the consumer can bring their stuff directly to the dump (special containers) for free, or to other drop-off points.
Now let's say you live in an apartment, or you have a dumpster behind your business. The garbage trucks (which are private contractors) come and pick up the garbage. When they drop the stuff off at the dump, there is actually a guy who does a quick check of the contents of the dump-truck. If there is anything like a monitor or computer, they write down the number of the garbage truck (which has to log in/out of the dump) and they charge that company (the trash hauler) a fine for improper dumping. They also pull the monitor aside for proper disposal. I have seen this in action, and it actually works. (The same rules apply for things like mattresses, and couches, which can screw up the way that a dump works.)
So, there is a good chance that the stuff will eventually be disposed of properly.
If you dump the stuff in the garbage cans in front of your house, they will note the garbage truck number and start to look for a pattern. And if it continues for a few weeks, they will actually send someone out to find out which house the load came from...and see if you are throwing things away improperly. Who knows what happens then...maybe they'll stop picking up your trash or something...but the people I talked to said it has never gotten that far.
Or...I check my e-mail at irregular intervals. With longer and shorter periods of time between checks, allowing long stretches of concentration. Interrupted by short bursts of e-mail hyperactivity.
I probably check my e-mail (manually) 20 times a day...on a slow day. A lot of what I am checking for is things like responses to my posts on Slashdot (and many others.) I also sell photographs, and people send inquries via e-mail...I want to jump on those ASAP- because typically they will buy from the first person who responds.
That doesn't count my work e-mail, which runs a check every 5 minutes, and notifies me when I get an e-mail. I check that one manually a lot, because sometimes I figure I don't want to wait 5 minutes...
I guess I am way beyond addicted- but it is pretty nice. I have a few buddies who I e-mail regularly (some who I ONLY know via e-mail) and it is nice to have people who respond in 2 minutes, instead of two days.
I *hate* when people only check their e-mail once a day, or even worse, once a week.
Someone who is going to run Linux should be fairly technically savvy, (not to mention, usually anti-Microsoft).
How many of them are out there buying servers, happily paying the 'Microsoft Tax' and then wiping the server?
Let's use Dell as an example- they charge $800 for Server 2003 Standard. $800! That is more money than a lot of their servers cost.
AND they sell Redhat, and SUSE right along with Windows.
And this is coming from Dell, one of the biggest MS partners.
So I can imagine purchasing requiring that you purchase from Dell "They're the cheapest", but you still have options.
Gateway- You can order without OS. IBM- other options. Apple- umm...no Windows. Sun- nope. HP- tons of options.
(I chose Dell and Gateway, because they are 'low end' and least Linux friendly)
So who is the total schmuck who is purchasing a server, and paying $800 for Windows, just to throw it away?
Oh...it's the same guy who runs Firefox, and sets it to identify itself as IE...and that's why IE still has the biggest market share...yeah, that guy...
Well since SEQUEL stood for 'Structured English Query Language' (which seems VERY language specific) I figured that SQL was just 'Structured Query Language.'
Well, telling you that there is a new game available in Xbox Live Arcade...
Is that a banner ad, or is it an 'informative message.'
I would go with the 'informative message' myself.
When I am on a website that sells shoes, and they have a 'see our new stuff' button, I don't see it as advertising. I see it as a convenient way to find ou what new products they have at their store.
I'm already there, I've already expressed interest...I just want to find stuff.
I don't want to sort through a list of all of the Xbox Live Arcade games just to see if there is anything new- it is so much easier when they tell me about it...
On the other hand, here we are at Slashdot...right now I have a huge Vonage banner at the top of my screen. I am not interested in Vonage, nor does Vonage have anything to do with this section of Slashdot...but I keep coming back.
Because many of the users are only using their computer to complete a task that is part of their bigger job.
When I photocopy a set of manuals (that I wrote, just in case you were concerned with copyright...) in order to give a presentation, I put the paper in the copier and press 'start'.
If it doesn't work the way it should, I take the originals out of the machine, and find a different copier that will work for me.
I don't try to figure out what is wrong with the copier...or how to make booklets, instead of just stapled stuff. Or how to even print from my computer. Because I just don't care. I have enough stuff to think about that the copier should be something that doesn't require any thought at all.
90% of the workforce feels the same way about their computer. We have people who are paid to edit books...and they know how to use all the advanced features in Microsoft Word far better than I would ever even dream of. But the moment there is a problem with their e-mail...they are lost.
That's okay...because I can't punctuate correctly to save my life. But boy, I can make sure the e-mail server is functioning...
The fact that you make a blanket statement like this shows you put absolutely no thought into your...thoughts.
Because we are running the same software that 85% of the world is running, and about 99% of our industry is running...we are dinosaurs.
We should move over the the software that runs about 8% of the world's computers (being generous here) even though in our industry that would make us the only ones incompatible with everyone else.
Good thinking- I would love to hire you as a consultant..because as you see it, one solution works for everybody...
Well 'running servers' doesn't just mean that we make sure the fans are spinning, and the little green lights stay on.
I spend 90% of my time programming...and about 10% maintaining the 4 servers that I use. That includes keeping users FTP accounts up to date.
We have thousands of users, and one of the people maintains the filesharing/e-mail servers, while supporting those users in using them.
We sell products, and use a webserver/database server/firewall for that system. Maintaining the servers is a small part- keeping the site with shopping cart running/secure/up-to-date is more important.
Actually for only 4 people, we get a ton of work done- and our administrative overhead is very low. That's why we wouldn't be switching anytime soon- I would have to re-write a lot of what I've done. We would have to switch tons of user accounts, get a new e-mail system, etc. etc. We do real stuff...not just some stupid administrative tasks that could be automated...those are the people who will soon see the unemployment line.
I don't think the article is surprising news at all...
At my job we are NOT considering Linux, and probably will not anytime in the foreseeable future.
We have 10+ years of infrastructure built on Windows. We have over a dozen servers all running Windows, talking to each other, running programs built for them.
We have 10+ years of expertise (well, 4 people with at least 6 year each)
Switching now would be insane.
It's not a choice of which one is 'better' (for one of any number of reasons) but which one works best for us.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, that is a commonly heard complaint. "It has a low barrier to entry, and does not force you to do things correctly."
Oh well- that doesn't mean that it doesn't do really good things when people actually know how to use it.
I can still churn out good sites, good features, good logic faster than anyone else I know who use other languages.
And once again, if you are having problems with stored procedures, I would say you are doing something wrong. I use them fairly frequently, without problem. (SQL Server)
Version 4.5 was painful- it would suck up all of your memory, then die a painful death. But versions 5, 6 and 7 have been very stable. 6 and 7 are extremely fast.
I think it is a very good product. Not discounting the usability of other products, but this one mistakenly has a bad reputation.
Well, your anecdote of 2 ColdFusion sites that crashed doesn't really prove much.
I've been working with ColdFusion for about 5 years now. My sites don't crash- and I get 10-20 million hits per month. Not huge, but a pretty good number. (No...this is not the site that is in my sig...)
I *might* get 2 or 3 'unhandled exceptions' in a day. And those are always caused by search engines that are hitting templates with bad queries. It is interesting to see the queries they send, "hmm...why did they decide to make the usernumber 99A4 this time instead of 994" the error is caused because *I* foolishly forgot to put a val() function around the number in a query. So I fix it, and move on.
If the person running the server has half of a brain, their sites won't crash. I've used ColdFusion from version 3, on up to 7. And they always put in great new features and capabilities that other web programmers need to work hours to duplicate- but for ColdFusion it is a built-in function.
Yes, people have been making fun of it for years- and it reached a peak when FuckedCompany was complaining about it a lot. But there are so many good things about it a lot of people turn a blind eye to. Hell, the Verity engine itself is worth the entire package price. I can set up a searchable index of PDF, Word, Text, files in about 30 minutes. This is stuff that people want, and really appreciate.
What I was saying: Games *always* have great graphics *before* they are shipped.
You are claiming that every PS2 E3 demo has been surpassed by current shipping games...is that the *same* game that was demoed?
I like the way a PS3 game gets 'best graphics.' When has ANY game lived up to the pre-release graphics? Never?
What about: Inaptel?
Yes...you do get free recycling services. It kicked in on the same day they started to charge the tax.
All of the old stuff was grandfathered in...you can recycle it for free.
Then your electronic device goes into the landfill...just like they have been doing for the last 50 years...
But this plan will reduce the stream tremendously. The fact that it is free is a good incentive.
They *thought* about getting a 'rebate' plan going. For instance, you pay $20 up front, and receive $10 back when you dispose of it properly.
Imagine the black-market import business of importing dead computer equipment from neighboring states...it would be big business.
So, free was the best they could do. And fine the people who do it wrong..
Well, actually a LOT happens when you throw the computer/monitor (or television) in the Dumpster in California.
Because I am somewhat of a freak, I have actually toured our local dump, and asked these very questions.
First, the money that California collects goes to the local landfills. Each landfill becomes a collection point for these electronic devices. They also set up collection points throughout the city. Disposing of electronic devices (new or old) is now free...(because of the tax.)
The landfill collects these things, and then calls in a contractor (hired by the state) who will pick this stuff up, and recycle as much as possible. Then they will dispose of the rest of it properly.
So, the consumer can bring their stuff directly to the dump (special containers) for free, or to other drop-off points.
Now let's say you live in an apartment, or you have a dumpster behind your business. The garbage trucks (which are private contractors) come and pick up the garbage. When they drop the stuff off at the dump, there is actually a guy who does a quick check of the contents of the dump-truck. If there is anything like a monitor or computer, they write down the number of the garbage truck (which has to log in/out of the dump) and they charge that company (the trash hauler) a fine for improper dumping. They also pull the monitor aside for proper disposal. I have seen this in action, and it actually works. (The same rules apply for things like mattresses, and couches, which can screw up the way that a dump works.)
So, there is a good chance that the stuff will eventually be disposed of properly.
If you dump the stuff in the garbage cans in front of your house, they will note the garbage truck number and start to look for a pattern. And if it continues for a few weeks, they will actually send someone out to find out which house the load came from...and see if you are throwing things away improperly. Who knows what happens then...maybe they'll stop picking up your trash or something...but the people I talked to said it has never gotten that far.
Or...I check my e-mail at irregular intervals. With longer and shorter periods of time between checks, allowing long stretches of concentration. Interrupted by short bursts of e-mail hyperactivity.
Not everything is an average.
Well I'm a little worried....
I probably check my e-mail (manually) 20 times a day...on a slow day. A lot of what I am checking for is things like responses to my posts on Slashdot (and many others.) I also sell photographs, and people send inquries via e-mail...I want to jump on those ASAP- because typically they will buy from the first person who responds.
That doesn't count my work e-mail, which runs a check every 5 minutes, and notifies me when I get an e-mail. I check that one manually a lot, because sometimes I figure I don't want to wait 5 minutes...
I guess I am way beyond addicted- but it is pretty nice. I have a few buddies who I e-mail regularly (some who I ONLY know via e-mail) and it is nice to have people who respond in 2 minutes, instead of two days.
I *hate* when people only check their e-mail once a day, or even worse, once a week.
SPEED UP PEOPLE!
Forgive my ignorance...but who are the Windows-only vendors?
How many servers are really shipped this way?
Someone who is going to run Linux should be fairly technically savvy, (not to mention, usually anti-Microsoft).
How many of them are out there buying servers, happily paying the 'Microsoft Tax' and then wiping the server?
Let's use Dell as an example- they charge $800 for Server 2003 Standard. $800! That is more money than a lot of their servers cost.
AND they sell Redhat, and SUSE right along with Windows.
And this is coming from Dell, one of the biggest MS partners.
So I can imagine purchasing requiring that you purchase from Dell "They're the cheapest", but you still have options.
Gateway- You can order without OS.
IBM- other options.
Apple- umm...no Windows.
Sun- nope.
HP- tons of options.
(I chose Dell and Gateway, because they are 'low end' and least Linux friendly)
So who is the total schmuck who is purchasing a server, and paying $800 for Windows, just to throw it away?
Oh...it's the same guy who runs Firefox, and sets it to identify itself as IE...and that's why IE still has the biggest market share...yeah, that guy...
But those are all real world applications.
I think what he meant was "none of my friends use Windows to run their at-home MP3 Server/Firewall/DIVX FTP server."
Yes...which makes sense.
I use IIS as an FTP server also...and an SMTP server.
Well since SEQUEL stood for 'Structured English Query Language' (which seems VERY language specific) I figured that SQL was just 'Structured Query Language.'
But SQL was just a shortening of SEQUEL for legal reasons...
Yes...thanks for making that correction.
Okay, call me Kooky, but I don't see where you are going with the IIS thinking.
Take a look at what Secunia has to say about IIS 6.
Then compare it to what they say about Apache 2.0 over the same time period.
I am not claiming great wisdom in this area, but I do know that more little bars on the charts is a bad thing.
Yes, people talk about that all the time...you CAN make money from open source.
But what is the reality of the situation? What is the realistic size of the open source market? How many people are really making a living doing this?
Yes, I know I will get a dozen people here who say 'I do, I do!' But that is really meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
A comparison of open source vs. closed source will show a humongous disparity in the earnings potential in each market.
I agree with grandpa- if I do charity, it will be to support something other than giving away my programming efforts.
What exactly is their income anyway? Do they have a revenue stream?
I would be surprised if nobody donated a ton of cash, to say that they are paying Linus' salary.
Well, telling you that there is a new game available in Xbox Live Arcade...
Is that a banner ad, or is it an 'informative message.'
I would go with the 'informative message' myself.
When I am on a website that sells shoes, and they have a 'see our new stuff' button, I don't see it as advertising. I see it as a convenient way to find ou what new products they have at their store.
I'm already there, I've already expressed interest...I just want to find stuff.
I don't want to sort through a list of all of the Xbox Live Arcade games just to see if there is anything new- it is so much easier when they tell me about it...
On the other hand, here we are at Slashdot...right now I have a huge Vonage banner at the top of my screen. I am not interested in Vonage, nor does Vonage have anything to do with this section of Slashdot...but I keep coming back.
Because many of the users are only using their computer to complete a task that is part of their bigger job.
When I photocopy a set of manuals (that I wrote, just in case you were concerned with copyright...) in order to give a presentation, I put the paper in the copier and press 'start'.
If it doesn't work the way it should, I take the originals out of the machine, and find a different copier that will work for me.
I don't try to figure out what is wrong with the copier...or how to make booklets, instead of just stapled stuff. Or how to even print from my computer. Because I just don't care. I have enough stuff to think about that the copier should be something that doesn't require any thought at all.
90% of the workforce feels the same way about their computer. We have people who are paid to edit books...and they know how to use all the advanced features in Microsoft Word far better than I would ever even dream of. But the moment there is a problem with their e-mail...they are lost.
That's okay...because I can't punctuate correctly to save my life. But boy, I can make sure the e-mail server is functioning...
The fact that you make a blanket statement like this shows you put absolutely no thought into your...thoughts.
Because we are running the same software that 85% of the world is running, and about 99% of our industry is running...we are dinosaurs.
We should move over the the software that runs about 8% of the world's computers (being generous here) even though in our industry that would make us the only ones incompatible with everyone else.
Good thinking- I would love to hire you as a consultant..because as you see it, one solution works for everybody...
Well 'running servers' doesn't just mean that we make sure the fans are spinning, and the little green lights stay on.
I spend 90% of my time programming...and about 10% maintaining the 4 servers that I use. That includes keeping users FTP accounts up to date.
We have thousands of users, and one of the people maintains the filesharing/e-mail servers, while supporting those users in using them.
We sell products, and use a webserver/database server/firewall for that system. Maintaining the servers is a small part- keeping the site with shopping cart running/secure/up-to-date is more important.
Actually for only 4 people, we get a ton of work done- and our administrative overhead is very low. That's why we wouldn't be switching anytime soon- I would have to re-write a lot of what I've done. We would have to switch tons of user accounts, get a new e-mail system, etc. etc. We do real stuff...not just some stupid administrative tasks that could be automated...those are the people who will soon see the unemployment line.
Where does management put it's money? Much, much, much more goes into Microsoft projects than PHP.
So, when I said 'until management ponys up some money' I was talking about projects that actually cost money...
I don't think the article is surprising news at all...
At my job we are NOT considering Linux, and probably will not anytime in the foreseeable future.
We have 10+ years of infrastructure built on Windows. We have over a dozen servers all running Windows, talking to each other, running programs built for them.
We have 10+ years of expertise (well, 4 people with at least 6 year each)
Switching now would be insane.
It's not a choice of which one is 'better' (for one of any number of reasons) but which one works best for us.