I think your results there correlate directly to how many supermodels you know and talk to regularly. How many supermodels do you know anyway? And can I get in on some of those coke parties?
Guys, The takeaway from this isn't how lazy millennials are. If that's you're reaction, you're a myopic idiot. Who's stupid and lazy, and who isn't has nothing to do with it. The bigger story here is that their expectations are low because the job market has changed. Dependable "normal" jobs have gone away, and the system continues to move exponentially in that general direction. We're also approaching the tipping point. The world we're headed into looks nothing like the old one, and if your eyes were opened, and looking at this whole thing honestly, you would see that.
Man, I can't win on these. One minute I'm a libertarian, the next I'm a dirty communist.
Everyone's worked minimum wage jobs, Dave. I worked at Taco Bell just after high school, and then in college, I worked as a barista. If I was advocating for a higher minimum wage, why would I also be advocating for software/hardware combinations that eliminate labor? There is exploitation happening, at least in the US when it comes to lower skilled labor. There have been court cases involving allegations of low skilled workers being locked in rooms until they comply. This isn't imaginary, it happens. And we all suffer for it. What I'm saying though, ultimately, is that jobs like mine are more important, and it would be nice to buy a burger without having to worry about the hair and booger content.
1. We know that fast food workers are under paid, forced to work in unfair working conditions, and that fast food workers are commonly exploited.
2. We know that there are and have been sanitary issues with fast food that comes directly from the element of having exploited human labor creating the product. It's an ongoing joke that you might get your burger or pizza spit in, or worse.
3. Writing software that powers robots that replaces these workers increases the speed of production, creates a more uniform product and eliminates both the worker exploitation and sanitary issues associated with fast food production while providing jobs to coders and engineers.
The Intertoobz is becoming mature. As much fun as it was back in the day - and damn, it sure was fun, those old days are gone.
And the people who are still interested in tinkering with new technology are moving on. This leaves the toobz being the playground of smartphone addicts, Grandma, and The big corporate players.
Cool. I've got nothing against new technologies. It's just that nobody's created anything that's both reliable, and a solid platform yet. The beauty of the web was and is that it's anything you want it to be. Interested in writing Java? Cool, the web will support it. Want to screw around with php? Done. Want to experiment with Go or Python? Put it on the web. It's easy. Takes very little work, and it's widely used. For me anyway, that was always the appeal of the web. It's everything, all in one place.
The problem with mesh networks, well, there are a lot of problems with mesh networks, but the biggest is that (at least so far) they generally lock you into a manosphere of technology. If you're going to replace the web, which is something I'm in favor of, do it with something that has more features... not less. Alls I'm sayin'.
Ah, the usual libertarian rhetoric. Gotta love that smell. State == bad, private enterprise == good.
Really? I thought I sounded like a Bernie bro on that one. The state does misunderstand its role, but the cronyism is really my biggest complaint. Giant corporations paying for laws that benefit them, and hinder the rest of the industry, literally stealing taxpayer money in the form of handouts. And the cable industry has had some of the biggest handouts in history.
Thing is that state is these days deep in private enterprise's (note: only big corps in that club!) pockets.
If you agree with me, then why are you trying to argue the same point I'm making?
Is now state == good, since it's just a branch of private enterprise?
(Yours, I assume is a branch of Big Coal these days).
The promise of the internet: decentralized information.
And it still is. The bigger problem is law, as a broad general topic, as it relates to the internet. The web used to be a wild frontier where anything goes. I've been working on it since the beginning, and more of that wild appeal is disappearing by the day. Monitoring by governments, likewise, is a concern.
The reality: 90% of the traffic goes to FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) monopolists.
So? Facebook, Google, and Apple don't really own anything. They aggregate content, and they're useful for that. Netflix drives video. They're only a major player because of the size of the files they move. Not because of the number of sessions they generate. Personally, I'm a lot more worried about corporations like Comcast, that hold their users essentially at gunpoint, while they make sure that there are no other options for access in the markets they work in.
The only solution: get away from a single source of access, and to one where we can route around the herd and its chosen megacorps.
The source of access is the isp. No two ways about it. Once online, people can choose to use facebook or netflix, or not. The ISP is non-negotiable. I honestly don't know if I want to live in a world where every app is OpenBizarre.
There are serious drawbacks to a horizontal decentralization of the server infrastructure which are persistent no matter how you do it. If a website or profile is unpopular, it may be more difficult to access. If the profile or website is only online when a user is, then you've got issues. You could try to solve it by providing hosting services against the network, but then you're doing the same thing you were doing before.
I don't think the web is going away anytime soon. Especially as app stores continue to lose traction. There's probably a better solution out there, but I don't think anyone's thought of it yet.
Here's the thing. It's sort of an open secret. Open Source code sucks. It's always sucked. The only time it doesn't suck is when rigid standards are applied, or you have huge groups of professional programmers working on it. IBM and Microsoft both contribute huge amounts of open source code every year. Most of it is pretty solid, well written by pros.
That's the exception though.
I've worked with hundreds of open source projects over the years, even tried to manage a couple of them. And the reality is that the code that comes in is generally learning code. Stuff written by guys and gals who are picking up the language, whatever language it is for the first time. And that's not bad. It gives them valuable experience on a living app, and it gets me the functionality I want to download and use. Hopefully, without having to redevelop it too much. See, at the end of the day, I'm a pragmatist. If it does what I want it to do, and it doesn't incinerate my hardware or cause my vm to stop responding... I just don't care anymore.
Anyway, that's why you can't depend on open source code, most of the time, for something like this. If you are going to use Github to do it, you're going to need a much larger sample, if it's even possible to come to the conclusions the premise of the survey is trying to figure out. I would be curious to know if projects with only one person on them were more likely to be buggy than projects with active teams. Or if there's a difference in the rate of defects with professional teams vs amateur programmers. I don't think looking at the language itself is ever going to yield anything actionable, but there's a lot of meta around this that could be interesting.
Have to agree. As long as the interesting stuff in terms of tools is happening on Windows, which it is, there's no reason to use Linux as a primary OS.
Guys, it's been 18 years since we started this. We've held out hope, used the Linux Desktop through thick and thin. Through bizarre Redhat/Fedora, and Ubuntu updates that fuck everything. We've learned how to manage settings without ui's, dealt with poor and non-integration of essential services, compiled and hacked drivers, learned how to do our own kernel patches, become experts in virtualization. As Linux users, we possess a level of knowledge about the inner workings of computers that Windows users, even skilled ones couldn't hope for. In short, we've gradually learned to do absolutely everything the hard way, out of a devotion and dedication to the idea that one day, Linux might become the platform everyone else uses. All the while, there has been no large-scale adoption among software companies, or by normal users, with only a few notable exceptions. At scale, this just isn't happening. Nobody other than our moms and grandparents is going to adopt Linux as their Desktop OS, and it's probably better that way. It's time to move on, put our collective energy into something else. This bus isn't coming.
I usually explain it in terms of challenges faced, and problems solved. Basically the same way you would in an interview with a recruiter who isn't a technical person.
I'm not sure how it happened, but I found that during the course of my career as a coder, I also became a speed reader. Like, I'm an absurdly fast speed reader now, and it's fucking odd. I don't really have a voice in my head when I read anymore, unless I'm doing it intentionally. Slows things down, and it's unnecessary. Pretty sure the two are related, but I couldn't tell you when it happened. If I had to guess, I would say it probably has something to do with spot reading thousands of manuals over a 20 year period.
Look, just because this is a left leaning piece, does not mean that it isn't a steaming pile of Alex Jones conspiracy claptrap.
None of this even makes sense, if you believe people have agency.
If you don't believe people have agency, you're in a world of hurt already, at least in terms of politics, and it's going to get worse. You'll have to come up with a dozen reasons, other than Liberals have lost the ability to sell their talking points to the public, in order to explain what is about to happen. The 2018 midterms are going to be an absolute bloodbath for the Left, if my numbers are right, which they have been.
Social media works well as a predictor, but not necessarily as an influencer. Studies have shown that nobody changes their minds because of what they see on Facebook or Twitter. If you think that's what might be happening, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
Rather, it makes more sense to use the tools to predict, and reflect -- which is all they're suited to do. There's a lot that can be done there.
Honestly, it's the first thought that popped into my head when they changed the way the permissions interface for Oauth worked about 8ish years ago. Don't know if there's much, if anything you can do about it though, other than ban the app on a case by case basis, or put some kind of filter in place that remembers the name of every trademark holder. But even then, there'll still be bad guys that manage to get through it.
Personally, I'm hopeful that the permafrost will evaporate, and we'll have giant lizard monsters with lime jello tails roaming the streets. Just think how delicious that would be.
One thing you need to understand about programming languages, is that they're like comic book villains. They do die, but they're never completely dead. I learned COBOL for fun a few years ago, seeing it through the eyes of a modern programmer. It's unique among programming languages, I find the syntax remarkably straightforward, after you get used to some of the underlying concepts it's predicated against.
I think the language has possibilities. Especially in an age where the human computer interface has moved from keyboards to voice. It would be amazing if you could do the kinds of complex programming tasks by voice that you see in Star Trek, and I think we're only a few years off. Here, COBOL is really the only language that makes sense for the task. Well, for the most part, and barring some of the more recent additions to the language, that is. No such application exists for it, yet, but it certainly could. And something like that will certainly be both needed and wanted in the coming years.
As far as the banks go, you have to understand business. If a system works properly and needs very little maintenance, there is no business case for replacing it. It's not like anyone runs websites with COBOL these days. Typically, it's the language of big iron mainframes, that were designed to last forever. If the current group of COBOL programmers does die out, it makes sense to train new ones. There's still a fair amount of demand for it, which will appeal to the mercenary nature of modern programmers.
I don't think that's an outlandish suggestion. We pay people to learn new things all time, even programming languages. To pretend that banks are somehow different than any other big organization, anywhere else, in any other industry is silly. Let's just call this what it is, stop worrying about it, and move on.
If you're going to talk about litigation and prosecution though, what worried me is the precedent that prosecuting burger king for something like this would set.
Sure, the devices could be more secure. I'll give you that.
But, on the other than hand, who was actually hurt by this? Can you put a dollar amount on the damage that was caused by this? Did anyone lose their lives, their freedom, or their livelihoods over this incident?
What if, rather than worrying about fast food companies doing novel things with technology that people might be mildly annoyed by, we put some serious thought into reforming the law that has taken the life and freedom away from thousands of people whose crimes were relatively nominal in terms of actual damage and cost incurred?
We've been complaining about hacking laws for two decades now. How about using this incident, and similar incidents like it to bring some much needed reforms to something we can all agree is an absolutely terrible law?
When you use words like net neutrality, you get a picture in head. Something very specific, and one that means something. We all think we know what the term means, but we don't. Almost never, do we, slashdot, as a collective group, understand what's actually being talked about when governments and telecoms use the term. And it's never implemented the same way, or to the same ends, twice. We need to call it something else. It's time.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm a contractor. I plan three months at a time. Thinking ahead two years is inconceivable to me. Also, for what it's worth, I'm over 40.
I think your results there correlate directly to how many supermodels you know and talk to regularly. How many supermodels do you know anyway? And can I get in on some of those coke parties?
Guys,
The takeaway from this isn't how lazy millennials are. If that's you're reaction, you're a myopic idiot. Who's stupid and lazy, and who isn't has nothing to do with it. The bigger story here is that their expectations are low because the job market has changed. Dependable "normal" jobs have gone away, and the system continues to move exponentially in that general direction. We're also approaching the tipping point. The world we're headed into looks nothing like the old one, and if your eyes were opened, and looking at this whole thing honestly, you would see that.
So... what's the takeaway here?
If you're a criminal, don't advertise on the overnet with the same address you're using for crime?
Duh.
I mean, that should be obvious.
What they need to do, I think, is sneak him out with some sort of large diplomatic package, which would grant him safe passage to Ecuador.
Man, I can't win on these. One minute I'm a libertarian, the next I'm a dirty communist.
Everyone's worked minimum wage jobs, Dave. I worked at Taco Bell just after high school, and then in college, I worked as a barista. If I was advocating for a higher minimum wage, why would I also be advocating for software/hardware combinations that eliminate labor? There is exploitation happening, at least in the US when it comes to lower skilled labor. There have been court cases involving allegations of low skilled workers being locked in rooms until they comply. This isn't imaginary, it happens. And we all suffer for it. What I'm saying though, ultimately, is that jobs like mine are more important, and it would be nice to buy a burger without having to worry about the hair and booger content.
1. We know that fast food workers are under paid, forced to work in unfair working conditions, and that fast food workers are commonly exploited.
2. We know that there are and have been sanitary issues with fast food that comes directly from the element of having exploited human labor creating the product. It's an ongoing joke that you might get your burger or pizza spit in, or worse.
3. Writing software that powers robots that replaces these workers increases the speed of production, creates a more uniform product and eliminates both the worker exploitation and sanitary issues associated with fast food production while providing jobs to coders and engineers.
So what's the issue?
The Intertoobz is becoming mature. As much fun as it was back in the day - and damn, it sure was fun, those old days are gone.
And the people who are still interested in tinkering with new technology are moving on. This leaves the toobz being the playground of smartphone addicts, Grandma, and The big corporate players.
Cool. I've got nothing against new technologies. It's just that nobody's created anything that's both reliable, and a solid platform yet. The beauty of the web was and is that it's anything you want it to be. Interested in writing Java? Cool, the web will support it. Want to screw around with php? Done. Want to experiment with Go or Python? Put it on the web. It's easy. Takes very little work, and it's widely used. For me anyway, that was always the appeal of the web. It's everything, all in one place.
The problem with mesh networks, well, there are a lot of problems with mesh networks, but the biggest is that (at least so far) they generally lock you into a manosphere of technology. If you're going to replace the web, which is something I'm in favor of, do it with something that has more features... not less. Alls I'm sayin'.
Yep.
Ah, the usual libertarian rhetoric. Gotta love that smell. State == bad, private enterprise == good.
Really? I thought I sounded like a Bernie bro on that one. The state does misunderstand its role, but the cronyism is really my biggest complaint. Giant corporations paying for laws that benefit them, and hinder the rest of the industry, literally stealing taxpayer money in the form of handouts. And the cable industry has had some of the biggest handouts in history.
Thing is that state is these days deep in private enterprise's (note: only big corps in that club!) pockets.
If you agree with me, then why are you trying to argue the same point I'm making?
Is now state == good, since it's just a branch of private enterprise?
(Yours, I assume is a branch of Big Coal these days).
I'm having trouble parsing that last part. Sorry.
The promise of the internet: decentralized information.
And it still is. The bigger problem is law, as a broad general topic, as it relates to the internet. The web used to be a wild frontier where anything goes. I've been working on it since the beginning, and more of that wild appeal is disappearing by the day. Monitoring by governments, likewise, is a concern.
The reality: 90% of the traffic goes to FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) monopolists.
So? Facebook, Google, and Apple don't really own anything. They aggregate content, and they're useful for that. Netflix drives video. They're only a major player because of the size of the files they move. Not because of the number of sessions they generate. Personally, I'm a lot more worried about corporations like Comcast, that hold their users essentially at gunpoint, while they make sure that there are no other options for access in the markets they work in.
The only solution: get away from a single source of access, and to one where we can route around the herd and its chosen megacorps.
The source of access is the isp. No two ways about it. Once online, people can choose to use facebook or netflix, or not. The ISP is non-negotiable. I honestly don't know if I want to live in a world where every app is OpenBizarre.
There are serious drawbacks to a horizontal decentralization of the server infrastructure which are persistent no matter how you do it. If a website or profile is unpopular, it may be more difficult to access. If the profile or website is only online when a user is, then you've got issues. You could try to solve it by providing hosting services against the network, but then you're doing the same thing you were doing before.
I don't think the web is going away anytime soon. Especially as app stores continue to lose traction. There's probably a better solution out there, but I don't think anyone's thought of it yet.
Oh, absolutely. No disagreement at all.
Here's the thing. It's sort of an open secret. Open Source code sucks. It's always sucked. The only time it doesn't suck is when rigid standards are applied, or you have huge groups of professional programmers working on it. IBM and Microsoft both contribute huge amounts of open source code every year. Most of it is pretty solid, well written by pros.
That's the exception though.
I've worked with hundreds of open source projects over the years, even tried to manage a couple of them. And the reality is that the code that comes in is generally learning code. Stuff written by guys and gals who are picking up the language, whatever language it is for the first time. And that's not bad. It gives them valuable experience on a living app, and it gets me the functionality I want to download and use. Hopefully, without having to redevelop it too much. See, at the end of the day, I'm a pragmatist. If it does what I want it to do, and it doesn't incinerate my hardware or cause my vm to stop responding... I just don't care anymore.
Anyway, that's why you can't depend on open source code, most of the time, for something like this. If you are going to use Github to do it, you're going to need a much larger sample, if it's even possible to come to the conclusions the premise of the survey is trying to figure out. I would be curious to know if projects with only one person on them were more likely to be buggy than projects with active teams. Or if there's a difference in the rate of defects with professional teams vs amateur programmers. I don't think looking at the language itself is ever going to yield anything actionable, but there's a lot of meta around this that could be interesting.
Have to agree. As long as the interesting stuff in terms of tools is happening on Windows, which it is, there's no reason to use Linux as a primary OS.
Guys, it's been 18 years since we started this. We've held out hope, used the Linux Desktop through thick and thin. Through bizarre Redhat/Fedora, and Ubuntu updates that fuck everything. We've learned how to manage settings without ui's, dealt with poor and non-integration of essential services, compiled and hacked drivers, learned how to do our own kernel patches, become experts in virtualization. As Linux users, we possess a level of knowledge about the inner workings of computers that Windows users, even skilled ones couldn't hope for. In short, we've gradually learned to do absolutely everything the hard way, out of a devotion and dedication to the idea that one day, Linux might become the platform everyone else uses. All the while, there has been no large-scale adoption among software companies, or by normal users, with only a few notable exceptions. At scale, this just isn't happening. Nobody other than our moms and grandparents is going to adopt Linux as their Desktop OS, and it's probably better that way. It's time to move on, put our collective energy into something else. This bus isn't coming.
I usually explain it in terms of challenges faced, and problems solved. Basically the same way you would in an interview with a recruiter who isn't a technical person.
I'm not sure how it happened, but I found that during the course of my career as a coder, I also became a speed reader. Like, I'm an absurdly fast speed reader now, and it's fucking odd. I don't really have a voice in my head when I read anymore, unless I'm doing it intentionally. Slows things down, and it's unnecessary. Pretty sure the two are related, but I couldn't tell you when it happened. If I had to guess, I would say it probably has something to do with spot reading thousands of manuals over a 20 year period.
Look, just because this is a left leaning piece, does not mean that it isn't a steaming pile of Alex Jones conspiracy claptrap.
None of this even makes sense, if you believe people have agency.
If you don't believe people have agency, you're in a world of hurt already, at least in terms of politics, and it's going to get worse. You'll have to come up with a dozen reasons, other than Liberals have lost the ability to sell their talking points to the public, in order to explain what is about to happen. The 2018 midterms are going to be an absolute bloodbath for the Left, if my numbers are right, which they have been.
Social media works well as a predictor, but not necessarily as an influencer. Studies have shown that nobody changes their minds because of what they see on Facebook or Twitter. If you think that's what might be happening, I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
Rather, it makes more sense to use the tools to predict, and reflect -- which is all they're suited to do. There's a lot that can be done there.
Honestly, it's the first thought that popped into my head when they changed the way the permissions interface for Oauth worked about 8ish years ago. Don't know if there's much, if anything you can do about it though, other than ban the app on a case by case basis, or put some kind of filter in place that remembers the name of every trademark holder. But even then, there'll still be bad guys that manage to get through it.
Personally, I'm hopeful that the permafrost will evaporate, and we'll have giant lizard monsters with lime jello tails roaming the streets. Just think how delicious that would be.
One thing you need to understand about programming languages, is that they're like comic book villains. They do die, but they're never completely dead. I learned COBOL for fun a few years ago, seeing it through the eyes of a modern programmer. It's unique among programming languages, I find the syntax remarkably straightforward, after you get used to some of the underlying concepts it's predicated against.
I think the language has possibilities. Especially in an age where the human computer interface has moved from keyboards to voice. It would be amazing if you could do the kinds of complex programming tasks by voice that you see in Star Trek, and I think we're only a few years off. Here, COBOL is really the only language that makes sense for the task. Well, for the most part, and barring some of the more recent additions to the language, that is. No such application exists for it, yet, but it certainly could. And something like that will certainly be both needed and wanted in the coming years.
As far as the banks go, you have to understand business. If a system works properly and needs very little maintenance, there is no business case for replacing it. It's not like anyone runs websites with COBOL these days. Typically, it's the language of big iron mainframes, that were designed to last forever. If the current group of COBOL programmers does die out, it makes sense to train new ones. There's still a fair amount of demand for it, which will appeal to the mercenary nature of modern programmers.
I don't think that's an outlandish suggestion. We pay people to learn new things all time, even programming languages. To pretend that banks are somehow different than any other big organization, anywhere else, in any other industry is silly. Let's just call this what it is, stop worrying about it, and move on.
Yeah, but unless you had a tape drive or disk installed, debugging was a bitch.
It was my first language and platform too.
Professionally, the first thing I worked in was Visual Basic 5.
If you're going to talk about litigation and prosecution though, what worried me is the precedent that prosecuting burger king for something like this would set.
Sure, the devices could be more secure. I'll give you that.
But, on the other than hand, who was actually hurt by this? Can you put a dollar amount on the damage that was caused by this?
Did anyone lose their lives, their freedom, or their livelihoods over this incident?
What if, rather than worrying about fast food companies doing novel things with technology that people might be mildly annoyed by, we put some serious thought into reforming the law that has taken the life and freedom away from thousands of people whose crimes were relatively nominal in terms of actual damage and cost incurred?
We've been complaining about hacking laws for two decades now. How about using this incident, and similar incidents like it to bring some much needed reforms to something we can all agree is an absolutely terrible law?
When you use words like net neutrality, you get a picture in head. Something very specific, and one that means something. We all think we know what the term means, but we don't. Almost never, do we, slashdot, as a collective group, understand what's actually being talked about when governments and telecoms use the term. And it's never implemented the same way, or to the same ends, twice. We need to call it something else. It's time.
My bank does that. The passwords I'm forced to use there are much shorter, and much weaker than I would use normally.
Also, open source code that breaks when you use passwords longer than 20 characters. I'm looking at you Opencart....