> That might be the next frontier. Even if we can get life-like quality.
2 points.
A) We will continue to need fast 3D for quite a while. What you said, all in the name of realism. I want my perspective-correct shadows, I want my realistic fog, my bezier and NURB surfaces, etc.:) The world is just too complex, and today we don't have the horsepower to accurately model it, so we approximate it: badly.
B) Thankfully photo-realism isn't the end-all and be-all. Real-time Cartoon rendering is starting to pick. Check out some the latest issues of Game Developer.
> That implies that having two monitors is extremely important.
If you want more games for Linux, it is, in a round-about way.
1) As a 3d graphics programmer, having 2 monitors hooked up via the voodoo has been a God-send. 3D output on the voodoo connector, source code on the vga connector. Very productive.
2) All the artists where I work, have dual monitors (even dual 17" work quite well.) Why? Because 3D Studio MAX pretty much requires it to get any "serious work" done. (Hey modelling game objects is serious work:)
Of course if we had a good modeller on Linux that would help. Anyone know of any at the same quality as 3D Studio Max ??
> most of the dual headed cards out there only worked in WinNT
For PC's, yes. Usually the modellers are running NT since most of the "high-end" modelling tools have been written for NT.
I haven't had any problems with the bp6. I checked www.bp6.com first to see what the issues were. I know there have been a few bad boards (my cousin went thru 2 of them!)
I needed a cheap SMP system for compiling at home, and it fit the bill perfectly.
I got the c366 for $35 from Access Micro back in Dec.
And of course the Athlon will outperform this config. I got the dual system because it was dirt cheap. SMP is very sweet. No more single cpu's for this programmer.
> What do you people do on these machines to need that much power?
1. Compiling.
On my p3-500 here at work it takes 30 mins to compile our game.
2. Graphics.
Even with GPUs (sorry nVidia, you didn't invent that term, Sony was using it WAY before you with the PSX docs) we still need faster cpu's. How many games today are pushing scenes of 5+ million polys?. Right. None.
With a 100 GHz machine (yes not MHz) we might start seeing some real-time ray-tracing.
As a graphics programmer, I can't wait for the future !:-)
"If I protest an illegal tax, does that make me an illegal tax protestor?!"
Dual Cel 366 o/c to 550: $35 each = $70 Abit BP6 = $120
I'll stick with my dual system, thx.
Re:I asked a silly question (Re: Why against?)
on
Why Do Open Source?
·
· Score: 2
> I always thought Stallman pretty much spoke for the FSF on the philosophy section, but realize I may have made an incorrect assumption. I thought the FSF wanted all software to be free for it's own sake as a free speech issue -- you know, code for it's own sake.
No, you didn't make an incorrect assumption. Stallman wishes all software was open source.
While it is a lofty goal to have all software with the freedom of source and copyleft, Stallman seems to think the right of the developer should be "restricted" for the greater good. As a liberterain, I don't think that's right to "deny" someone the freedom on the basis of the rest of society.
> The LoC is very open to citizens. So much so, some very valuable books/manuscrips have walked out of the LoC.
This is one more reason the books should be on-line. Anyone should be free to look and copy the books on-line, but the only way you get to physically look at the books, is if you travel to the LoC.
Gnu and freedom software have been successfull these past 25+ years. e.g. Linux, GNU Utilities, Apache, etc. Is there anything you would of done different in the free software movement?
(Yes, I know its free software, but free means freedom, not price, so I think the term freedom software has a nicer ring to it:)
Yes. OpenGL _IS_ cross platform, not _was_. OpenGL runs on pretty much all desktop systems. (Can anyone think of a system that doesn't have OpenGL?)
At least Khronos is doing The Right Thing (tm) and using OpenGL as a base for OpenML. OpenGL is a nice clean, and othogonal API unlike that bastard child called Direct3D. (DX = 6 revisions in 4 years? Yeah, thats a good design! NOT.)
At least they have enough "big names" that this might actually take off.
<rant> Unlike all the developers that SOLD OUT to M$ with Direct3D. As a 3D programmer I'm still upset that everyone let M$ shove down our game programmers throats wheter we wanted it or not. </rant>
/* x < 495 */ for ( x = 1; x< 1500; x++ ) { /* pattern changes at world 174, & world 333, 506, 679, 852,... goto to next suffix if world > 174 & (world + 13 mod 173) == 0 */
OO{P/D} is not some silver bullet that will solve all your design issues, and Stroustrup knows that: He left the programming paradigm to the PROGRAMMER. (Functional/Procedural programming DOES have it's place, as does OO.)
> He should've started anew when creating his OO dream rather than trying to maintain backward compatibility.
I disagree. OO{P/D} is not some silver bullet that will solve all your design issues, and Stroustrup knows that: He left the programming paradigm to the PROGRAMMER. (Functional/Procedural programming DOES have it's place, as does OO.)
> Since the compiled product is a TOOL and not a vehicle for free speech, the judge can still keep DeCSS illegal.
I don't buy that on the grounds that there are LOTS of TOOLS that _COULD_ be used for malicious purposes. Doesn't mean its right to make them illegal.
> I'd like to remind you the judge considered DeCSS a mechanism for piracy.. not a tool to promote interoperability.
So basically we trample over the right(s) of the authors (free speech) in the name of security.
"Those that would trade liberty for security deserve neither" seems to come to mind.
> HOWEVER, I'd be willing to bet that distribution of the SOURCE is now legal.. but compiling it and using it is NOT.
That makes sense _IF_ we look at it in the light any other [dangerous] tool, such as explosives. Having information how to make a bomb is not a crime. _Owning_ the parts of a bomb is.
Is DeCSS _ONLY_ designed to promote piracy ? I don't think it is, and on that basis, it should not be illegal.
> Well, the link is usually very memory intensive.
It takes 25 mins to do a compile, and about a minute to link (P2-400 w/ 128 Megs). The debug.exe is about 10 Megs.
> Having enough memory to cache all common header files makes a big difference. Now that is something we haven't tested. I'll buy that. Now only if my manager would;)
> For the most part apps are still computer bound, EXCEPT in server space. Thats why the Xeon is still chugging along at 550MHz. Examples of apps that are compute bound.
> How in the world can you call OSes like Windows or Linux modern?
If you would take a OS course you would recognize certain "modern" features:
- Pre-emptive task switching - Multi-threaded - Virtual Memory - Protective address space for each application and the kernel (although hardware kind of needs to support this before the OS can)
> ? Linux can be traced back to the late sixites, whereas Windows still is the 1981 beast it originated from
Irrelevent. ALL _OS's_ can be traced back to the sixities. Does that mean that ALL of them are 40 years old?
> Put against these, the 1985 AmigaOS is wholly modern. _IF_ the AmigaOS has all those features, then, yes, you are correct.
> Personally, I think things like "and", "or", "not", and modus pones are realitivly universal, i.e. you need them to build your theories of the world, but the quantifiers are a whole new critter.
You're assuming a binary logic system. Tertiary (and higher) logic systems do exist.
Slashdot Mirror
> That might be the next frontier. Even if we can get life-like quality.
:)
2 points.
A) We will continue to need fast 3D for quite a while. What you said, all in the name of realism. I want my perspective-correct shadows, I want my realistic fog, my bezier and NURB surfaces, etc.
The world is just too complex, and today we don't have the horsepower to accurately model it, so we approximate it: badly.
B) Thankfully photo-realism isn't the end-all and be-all. Real-time Cartoon rendering is starting to pick. Check out some the latest issues of Game Developer.
Cheers
> That implies that having two monitors is extremely important.
:)
If you want more games for Linux, it is, in a round-about way.
1) As a 3d graphics programmer, having 2 monitors hooked up via the voodoo has been a God-send. 3D output on the voodoo connector, source code on the vga connector. Very productive.
2) All the artists where I work, have dual monitors (even dual 17" work quite well.) Why? Because 3D Studio MAX pretty much requires it to get any "serious work" done. (Hey modelling game objects is serious work
Of course if we had a good modeller on Linux that would help. Anyone know of any at the same quality as 3D Studio Max ??
> most of the dual headed cards out there only worked in WinNT
For PC's, yes. Usually the modellers are running NT since most of the "high-end" modelling tools have been written for NT.
Cheers
ACK, you're right.
I got my set back in Dec. Who knew the price was going to go up?!
> *do NOT* buy a BP6 for a server
I agree.
I haven't had any problems with the bp6.
I checked www.bp6.com first to see what the issues were. I know there have been a few bad boards (my cousin went thru 2 of them!)
I needed a cheap SMP system for compiling at home, and it fit the bill perfectly.
I got the c366 for $35 from Access Micro back in Dec.
And of course the Athlon will outperform this config. I got the dual system because it was dirt cheap. SMP is very sweet. No more single cpu's for this programmer.
> What do you people do on these machines to need that much power?
:-)
1. Compiling.
On my p3-500 here at work it takes 30 mins to compile our game.
2. Graphics.
Even with GPUs (sorry nVidia, you didn't invent that term, Sony was using it WAY before you with the PSX docs) we still need faster cpu's. How many games today are pushing scenes of 5+ million polys?. Right. None.
With a 100 GHz machine (yes not MHz) we might start seeing some real-time ray-tracing.
As a graphics programmer, I can't wait for the future !
"If I protest an illegal tax, does that make me an illegal tax protestor?!"
> Athlon 700: $189.
Dual Cel 366 o/c to 550: $35 each = $70
Abit BP6 = $120
I'll stick with my dual system, thx.
> I always thought Stallman pretty much spoke for the FSF on the philosophy section, but realize I may have made an incorrect assumption. I thought the FSF wanted all software to be free for it's own sake as a free speech issue -- you know, code for it's own sake.
No, you didn't make an incorrect assumption. Stallman wishes all software was open source.
*Points to evidence -->
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/why-free. html
and
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/should befree.html
While it is a lofty goal to have all software with the freedom of source and copyleft, Stallman seems to think the right of the developer should be "restricted" for the greater good. As a liberterain, I don't think that's right to "deny" someone the freedom on the basis of the rest of society.
Cheers
> The LoC is very open to citizens. So much so, some very valuable books/manuscrips have walked out of the LoC.
This is one more reason the books should be on-line. Anyone should be free to look and copy the books on-line, but the only way you get to physically look at the books, is if you travel to the LoC.
Gnu and freedom software have been successfull these past 25+ years. e.g. Linux, GNU Utilities, Apache, etc. Is there anything you would of done different in the free software movement?
:)
(Yes, I know its free software, but free means freedom, not price, so I think the term freedom software has a nicer ring to it
What has been the hardest aspect of showing people the advantages of freedom software?
... to keep your skills up to date ?
Now don't get me wrong, just because you are done with school, doesn't mean you are done with learning !
If you ALREADY need a degree to be able to participate, then what's the point of spending ANOTHER 6-day-a-week, 12-hour-a-day year ?
"If I protest an illegal tax, does that make me an illegal tax protestor ?" - Pohoreski
Yes. OpenGL _IS_ cross platform, not _was_.
OpenGL runs on pretty much all desktop systems. (Can anyone think of a system that doesn't have OpenGL?)
At least Khronos is doing The Right Thing (tm) and using OpenGL as a base for OpenML. OpenGL is a nice clean, and othogonal API unlike that bastard child called Direct3D. (DX = 6 revisions in 4 years? Yeah, thats a good design! NOT.)
I'm kind of curious as to why OpenAL or SDL doesn't fit the bill here?
http://www.lokigames.com/development/
At least they have enough "big names" that this might actually take off.
<rant>
Unlike all the developers that SOLD OUT to M$ with Direct3D. As a 3D programmer I'm still upset that everyone let M$ shove down our game programmers throats wheter we wanted it or not.
</rant>
"I want to work in the theoritical ... Everything works in Theory"
Here's a program that lists all the world names for Populous 1.
I wrote it back in 91 when I bored one weekend...
The astute reader will notice that you can't play all possible world combinations in Populous (32,768 world names I believe.)
> OO has had twenty-fove years to get something, anything right. Too late. Next paradigm please.
I have already addressed this point in the other thread, Cross-Platform Development Tools?
OO{P/D} is not some silver bullet that will solve all your design issues, and Stroustrup knows that: He left the programming paradigm to the PROGRAMMER. (Functional/Procedural programming DOES have it's place, as does OO.)
If you want detailed info., check out this book:
Multi-Paradigm Design for C++
Cheers
"Black Holes are where God divided by Zero." -- Anonymous
> I hope these kids have a buttload of coders on board.. ACLs alone could take 18 months of serious coding..
I sure hope not. Capabilities address secuity in a MUCH cleaner way then ACL's do.
See:
http://www.eros-os.org/essays/capintro. html
> He should've started anew when creating his OO dream rather than trying to maintain backward compatibility.
I disagree. OO{P/D} is not some silver bullet that will solve all your design issues, and Stroustrup knows that: He left the programming paradigm to the PROGRAMMER. (Functional/Procedural programming DOES have it's place, as does OO.)
If you want detailed info., check out this book:
Multi-Paradigm Design for C++
Cheers
> Since the compiled product is a TOOL and not a vehicle for free speech, the judge can still keep DeCSS illegal.
I don't buy that on the grounds that there are LOTS of TOOLS that _COULD_ be used for malicious purposes. Doesn't mean its right to make them illegal.
> I'd like to remind you the judge considered DeCSS a mechanism for piracy.. not a tool to promote interoperability.
So basically we trample over the right(s) of the authors (free speech) in the name of security.
"Those that would trade liberty for security deserve neither" seems to come to mind.
> HOWEVER, I'd be willing to bet that distribution of the SOURCE is now legal.. but compiling it and using it is NOT.
That makes sense _IF_ we look at it in the light any other [dangerous] tool, such as explosives. Having information how to make a bomb is not a crime. _Owning_ the parts of a bomb is.
Is DeCSS _ONLY_ designed to promote piracy ?
I don't think it is, and on that basis, it should not be illegal.
> Well, the link is usually very memory intensive.
.exe is about 10 Megs.
;)
It takes 25 mins to do a compile, and about a minute to link (P2-400 w/ 128 Megs). The debug
> Having enough memory to cache all common header files makes a big difference.
Now that is something we haven't tested. I'll buy that. Now only if my manager would
> For the most part apps are still computer bound, EXCEPT in server space. Thats why the Xeon is still chugging along at 550MHz. Examples of apps that are compute bound.
The techinical terms are CPU bound and I/O bound.
Nice summary, BTW.
>> ... cutting down times in compiling code ...
>> I Have a Dual-500mhz machine, and i max out both cpu's all the time.
> Ever considered buying more RAM? If you're maxing out a dual-500MHz machine, I would hope you've got at least 4 Gig of RAM on that baby.
Compiling is CPU bound, not I/O bound.
An extra Gig or 2 isn't going to speed up the compile when you have 4,000 files and a few million lines of code.
> How in the world can you call OSes like Windows or Linux modern?
If you would take a OS course you would recognize certain "modern" features:
- Pre-emptive task switching
- Multi-threaded
- Virtual Memory
- Protective address space for each application and the kernel (although hardware kind of needs to support this before the OS can)
> ? Linux can be traced back to the late sixites, whereas Windows still is the 1981 beast it originated from
Irrelevent. ALL _OS's_ can be traced back to the sixities. Does that mean that ALL of them are 40 years old?
> Put against these, the 1985 AmigaOS is wholly modern.
_IF_ the AmigaOS has all those features, then, yes, you are correct.
Cheers
> The whole OS is C++ based
://www-classic.be.com/aboutbe/benewsletter/volume_ III/Issue51.html#Insight
:)
Not quite. The kernel is written in C.
http
> with beautifully clean and simple APIs.
Yes, it really puts the Linux and Windows API to shame. Badly.
You also forgot BeOS is EXTREMELY FAST.
BeOS is a great example of what happens when you start over and design a well thought OS instead of just hacking things together.
Cheers
> Personally, I think things like "and", "or", "not", and modus pones are realitivly universal, i.e. you need them to build your theories of the world, but the quantifiers are a whole new critter.
You're assuming a binary logic system. Tertiary (and higher) logic systems do exist.