Slashdot Mirror
BeOS For Linux!
Patrick Mullen writes: "Hey, BeOS for Linux has been released. Be doesn't seem to show this off on their page, so I've created a mirror of it. I'm not sure if it works on PPC, but it sure works on Intel.
Download here."
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That should be labeled "troll", not "insightful".
Dunno bout benchmarking, but as I understand it, neither windows nor linux can claim full CPU usage in a SMP system. So it seems it would be fairly much impossible for either of them to even compete with Be, which uses 100%.
I think this is simply because no one makes SMP apps for linux or windows. There is just no demand. So the OS will have to try and make up for that with all these apps that aren't even thread safe.
As for Be's UI, download and try it. It's far from perfect, but compared to what else is on the market, it's heaven.
This is old, old news, as it was released the at same time as BeOS for Windows, however, in an effort to spare you 40 megs and a few hours here's the readme.
/home on a seperate partition, it could be /home/beos/image.be
BeOS Personal Edition for Linux
To boot the image.be Personal Edition partition image, place it at in a
directory called 'beos' at any root point on a ext2 partition. ex,
/beos/image.be, or if you have
placed at
Then create a boot floppy from floppy.img, and reboot!
(try dd if=floppy.img of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 conv=sync; sync )
This configuration is provided for your enjoyment, and is NOT supported by
Be, Inc. Please don't ask us for help and support on making this work.
Be Inc have been very generous with the specs for their OS. As a developer for it myself, I find it very easy to find stuff out. Eg: the specs for BFS, the BMessages, the shelves, ... all this is documented by Be.
IMO, Specs are much more important than source. Nobody (except Be) is going to seriously do anything with the highly optimised, very complicated BeOS source anyway.
Source is old as soon as its written, Specs stay with us longer.
So does it have any development tools?
I downloaded the Windows release and found the development folder empty. No compiler, linker, headers, ide, debugger, nada. Some of the sample apps didn't work. Three of my machines (Windows98) refused to run when launched from the desktop - I needed a boot disk. An all of them locked up overnight (I did turn on the screensaver maybe they all crashed?)
I found it odd that they just didn't add a boot loader, include development tools and change their foreign file system access to write to the partitions.
Not to slam the whole lot of you readers but I found it odd that for a "geek community" nobody mentioned this? I guess no one downloaded it for the sake of coding?
And yes, I was a large BeOS advocate two years ago, but with the recent evacuation of key people I don't put too much faith in the company. In case you haven't head, Dominic and Pavel have left and several kernel/driver and app engineers as well. (Dominic wrote their amazing filesystem.)
Be is now moving into the area of "internet appliances" with the thought that they their speed and robustness will make up for their size and lack of experience in the embedded market. I wish them good luck, but I'd rather have their technology for my own projects.
Somebody in an earlier post mentioned that Be tried to sell their own hardware before becoming a strictly software company. That reminded me of the much-hyped "geek port" that the Be PPC boxen sported. Just what was this thing anyway? Any links for specs? I seem to remember a lot of magazine quotes along the lines of "mmm... geeeek poort" (voice of Homer J. Simpson). So what was this uber-cool interface anyway?
Okay, I booted the thing, I'm posting this with BeOS... This time I stuck it on another drive, but it turns out the drive wasn't the issue. All my stuff is on an extended partition, so it's more of a DOS compatibility issue than a Linux one. (the installer didn't find anything in extended partitions when I checked it, but BeOS can read the raw drive just fine. Am I doing something wrong?)
:)
Anyhow, first impressions: networking was really easy to set up, since it knows about my 3c905, and the layout UI is some MacOS / Windows hybrid which should be easy for novices to figure out. However, the command prompt is GNU Utils all the way, with should be great for us power users who don't care about that darn GUI thing.
My video card isn't supported out of the box, (it's a crappy Trident PCI card) so this is all in 640x480, grayscale. I don't have sound yet, but my TV card works, and since I have networking I'm going to look for drivers now. The default web browser is okay, (loads slashdot, lets me log in, can't see my user page though) and once Be gets more driver support out-of-the-box, (I guess there's more on the CD) and more applications running on it, (Windows compatibility layer?) this should be a killer OS! I like the anti-aliased text, even in grayscale. I'd like to see that on X more often...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
No, it doesn't, or I'd do that in Linux. :)
Thanks, though. There aren't as many VESA 2.0 compliant video cards out there as you might think. (this compared to ATAPI CD-ROM drives, say.) I hate proprietary hardware interfaces...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
First off, the Linux download is smaller. The disk images are exactly the same, but Windows users get an installer, and some tools they need to get it working / make it easier.
I know because before I found the Linux version, I was trying to get the Windows version to work. I eventually managed to get all the files extracted using Wine, and it has a disk image, a file system image, etc.
The disk images for Windows and Linux are different; the (512 MB!) file system image is the same.
BeOS can't find its file system image with either disk. I put all its stuff in '/home/beos', which is a separate partition on my machine, so this should work. It bitches about the superblock, I tried enabling/disabling DMA transfers, etc., etc.
Does support for IDE harddrives or ext2 under BeOS blow this bad, or is it just me? I'm using pretty generic hardware here...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Actually, it's silly for Apple not to allow BeOS on their hardware, because Apple makes much more money from hardware sales than from OS sales.
So they conceivably gain an OS upgrade sale, at the expense of losing a much bigger profit on their hardware (which they would have gotten had they not forced BeOS to intel).
Please stop rationalizing Jobs' petty little ego trips and passing them off as logic, OK?
(currently testing something about signatures here)
Hey, come on...
:^P) then lobby Be and ATI in a *nice* way, certainly nicer than your post here. Hard-working folks really don't like folks to simply whine about their problems; they do, however, like constructive criticism and hints.
:^P
Be isn't Microsoft. They don't have the clout of Microsoft to get hardware vendors to sign exclusive NDA agreements to keep the info for hardware secret...oh, wait, I've said too much...
Fact of the matter is, it's an OS originally developed for Apple, who, in thanks, backstabbed them and signed on Steve "I have a company of artists, not developers, and who gives a shit if Pixar makes me most my money" Jobs so they could shoehorn MacOS into OpenStep/Mach. The fact is, because it's a closed-source OS, they don't have that incredible user-support base that Linux/BSD has.
So, if you'd like the media OS to support your card (because, hey, if it doesn't support *your* stuff, the claims must not be true, huh?
If I didn't know any better, I'd almost be tempted to say you're a Microsoft troll.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
A 40MB download for an OS release that is supposed to run on another OS ??? No link to what that is supposed to mean ??? This makes no sense, it is not even funny. Besides, it's April 2nd now...
things. take. time.
A computer program is protected by copyright because it constitutes a literary work under the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.[2] From a purchaser's point of view, unless there is some agreement with the owner of the intellectual property in the program, it is almost impossible to use software without infringing the copyright. This is because, in order to load and run a program, the program has to be copied from its permanent storage medium, into the computer. Legitimate use of software therefore depends on having the permission of the owner of the copyright.
That's pure fiction. There's no legal basis for such a conclusion. Even if it could be argued that the copyright owner didn't grant you an implied license to run a computer program by giving you a copy, it's obvious that execution, or any similar operation which requires the production of an intermediate copy to enable your use of a lawfully aquired copy is considered fair use. Copying a program from disk to memory is no different than copying a DVD onto VHS so you can watch it in a place where you have only a VCR, or photocopying pages out of a book onto 11x17 paper so you can read them with your poor eyesight. All these operations are perfectly legal.
So how could someone downloading the beos.tar.gz from an ftp-server know he acted legal unless he finds a text inside giving him the permission to do so.
He already had permission to download that was granted when the file was placed on a publicly accessable FTP site.
It was stated that the linux-package wasn't announced on beos.com. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but downloading something isn't legal just because you can.
If it's on a publicly accessable site, a member of the public is not breaking the law by downloading it.
your DMA, IRQ, and memory ranges are probably incorrectly configured. Try booting from the boot disk and checking the settings via the Preferences/Devices menu. Booting from the boot disk should remove any vestiges of Windows and its grasp on your hardware.
I brought this the slashdots attention, with the correct information, the minute it got released, but that article was knocked back, but this one, less informed did make it through.
VK3TST
-- "People aren't stupid. Usually." -- jd
Huh? In what way does the Qt API resemble the MFC API? MFC's API is a very thin layer over the Win32 API, it doesn't really abstract away from it at all. Thus, it's absolutely horid to work with. Whether Qt's API is great to work with or not is a matter of opinion, but you'd have to be brain dead to think it resembles the MFC API in any significant way. It's certainly not a rip-off of it. The look and feel may be, but the API isn't.
Though I'd agree that QT smells a bit better han MFC...
Not sure what this means, but I suspect you're babbling about the "look & feel" of the toolkits, which has nothing to do with what this thread was about: the API of the toolkits.
--
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
$ lynx -dump http://www.be.com/products/freebeos/ | grep -i linux
$
Nothing. So what should I read there?
If it's nowhere on Be's servers, how, why and from where did this guy mirror it?
Linux is free enough for me. The difference between BSD's license and the GPL is only relevant if you want to write closed source software yourself. I don't, and it seems many /.ers don't either. Therefore, there isn't a good reason why Linux gets more press than the BSDs. Maybe it's that more people are using Linux, regardless of technical merit. I might try BSD sometime if Debian/FreeBSD ever materializes, but I don't have the time to jump into a whole new Unix. I concur that there are too many stories about very minor releases of Linux stuff, usually with nothing particularly interesting new in the release. (and definitely not mentioned in the article, even if some big important changes happened.)
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
I'm always suspicious of people who say that linux users don't care about the free speech aspect, when that person doesn't use Linux themselves. (I'm assuming that be-fan is a Be user, and maybe an occasional linux user.) It's not surprising that the people who don't use linux are the ones who don't care about the free speech aspect of the license. I love having the kernel source. Even if I wasn't much of a programmer, I could recompile it to tune it for my hardware. I was recompiling the kernel before I'd looked at the source, so you don't have to be a programmer to do it or appreciate it.
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
I helped a friend set up a system with win, Be, and Linux. In /etc/lilo.conf, I put
other=/dev/hda3 # the BeOS partition
label=beos
BeOS can boot off its partition, like windoze. (and linux if you install a lilo boot sector at the start of the partition as well as on the mbr.)
#define X(x,y) x##y
#define X(x,y) x##y
Peter Cordes ; e-mail: X(peter@cordes ,
But my driveway isn't compatible. If Be wants to remain closed, so be it. Assuming they don't turn into bullies(*cough*MS*cough*), I wish them all the success in the world. But their decision (at this point) to be closed doesn't make sense. See, maybe they've left this Batmobile in my driveway, but since they don't support my motherboadrd, it might as well be a Yugo. (Heck, if it takes up 512 Megs, it might as well be a steaming pile of dog sh**.) But I digress. My point was that an OS with no market position and no money to write drivers with is going to be in a constant hole, because it'll never support the latest hardware, or the oldest hardware, and probably not much of the stuff in between. If you are Windows, you can get away with this. If you are Linux, you just ask people to write drivers. If you are Be, you tell people "eh, we didn't want your business anyway." And that's too bad.
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
What idiot would be running win9x on an SMP box anyway?
Anyone who has to occasionally use win9x as well as NT, Linux, BeOS, or other OSes that do use SMP, and doesn't want to use another box to do it.
rant
Maybe you already tried it this way, but I've found that if I use ez-bios first, before partitioning, I can boot the drive, hit CTRL or CTRL+A or whatever it is, insert a boot floppy with the text version of PartionMagic, and do anything I could without ez-bios.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Once I stopped laughing long enough to breath, you got me started thinking. Anybody tried doing it this way under the Evil OS from Redmond? I'm runnig 64M of ram and it seems like it worked better when I only had 32.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Looks like they changed it to the Be logo while they thought no one was watching.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Change it all you want whenever you want, just tag a little notice on the end of the story on the main page saying that you did so.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Perhaps some sort of deal could be struck that they adopt the GPL if we helped in this regard?
No.
Not the current free be release. The current image in the linux and windows distributions are for x86 hardware only.
I hope you mean that the installler is ported to linux otherwise you are a moron... for those of you who dont know BeOS has the VERY COOL capability of executing a program from your other OS that launches you into a BeOfs img file in your hard drive, so you never actually need to make another partition for it. Also I think that BeOS is somethins that should be used to train windows people that will be working with unices is thye short term feature as the file system, and command line interfaces are pretty much the same as linux. seriously guys BeOS is one cool OS, fast as hell. one of the best netlibs ive used, its completely beautiful, oh so efficient (you can d/l the WHOLE OS plus a lot of programs in a 42mb installer file) It works almost out of the box, no config needed.. FAST stable as hell for me, and it has the option of having multiple desktops with different backgrounds, color depths and resolutions (A dream come true for web developers and img people) Ive been using BeOS for about a week and well I love it... plus it has a bunch of CODECS built into the kernel so they are fast as hell, its trully media OS as well as a networking OS in my opinion... i see it as a really really good OS to have in a corporate environment as its easy to use, pretty, efficient, stable... and more... what more could you want for your typical user or "power user"
Kaoslord [quote goes here] define("slashdot purity","67.5");
What is the BeOS for Linux?
It's a BeOS on top of the Linux?
Can it be called an OS, then?
I understand the low-level of the BeOS is
based on an Unix kernel.
So, does the article means that the low
level portion of the BeOS for Linux is the
Linux?
BeOS for linux doesn't actually launch itself from
/usr/src is a separate partition, so I untarred it there). It places its files in ./Beos
Linux. What you do to get it working is:
1) Download it.
2) Untar it in the root directory of one of your partitions. (In my case,
3) Create a boot disk by using dd to transfer a floppy image file over to the disk.
4) Reboot the system with the floppy boot disk in the drive.
Obviously, you need root access to do step 4 (and maybe even step 3, I forget).
So this isn't a security hole.
If Be ever releases a program that DOES launch BeOS directly from windows, then they should think about making the launching program need root permissions.
Arrrgh Matey, I've used BeOS before, and knew I could install it onto another partition. So, I ran installer, and it froze on a certain file, restarted. Tried again, froze, different file.
Don't know what to say. Hell, copying the / directory causes it to freeze to.
--
Insert Witty Sig Here
Hmm, might give it a try. Still, the idea of using something non-GPL/BSD like is a little scarry.
Etherlink III 3c509 are insanely common. If Be is having trouble supporting a card like that, I'd hate to think about what you have to deal with if you have an off-brand model.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
That's not true - BeOS 5 stands alone just fine. You can burn a CD directly from the image, use the boot disk to mount the cd, and install it on its own partition. You can also use the boot disk to go directly to BeOS even if its running from a file on a FAT partition.
-lx
Yup, works just fine. As I understand it, changing the word "TNT" to "TNT2" somewhere in the OS was all that was necessary. :)
-lx
i tried the linux version of the beos os, had the same problem as up above.. the dial up networking didnt even want to work, tried both serial1 and serial2. and i have an older zoom isa 33.6 modem, w/jumpers. another weird thing is that it recognized my sound card, which wasn't supported anyways.
i thought I had no sig?
I'm surprised that BeOS gets such an easy ride on Slashdot...
:-)
After all, it's just another closed source operating system, without good drivers, applications, games, or hardware vendor support. Be tried selling their own boxen, after all. Geek ports and all. They made hardly a splash.
About the only things BeOS has, that Linux lacks, are Firewire and a more featureful file system. (As far as I can tell, anyway.. BeOS advocates should feel free to flame on in reply to this
If Linux Central or somebody sold $1.99 CDs of Be, like how I recently acquired Slackware 7, I'd give BeOS a try for kicks. I can't see why it'd be worth 5 hours of my time, or more money, though.
I can purchase any copyrighted book I want, walk to a photocopy machine, and xerox the whole thing if I prefer to read books off of xeroxed pieces of paper. That's perfectly legal (at least under U.S. law) as you're allowed to make copies of anything for personal use.
Reference: U.S. Copyright Office, Circular 1.
I should point out that it's perfectly possible to write BeOS drivers without the BeOS source code. Be's driver API is extremely simple and elegant, and fairly well documented, and Be has been bending over backwards to encourage independent driver development (they write articles on "how to make a device driver" in practically every Be newsletter--gets a bit tiresome, really
Now, getting specs from the video card manufacturer may be a different story altogether, but presumably if you have enough info to write a Linux driver you could do a BeOS driver as well.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
so basically it isn't a "linux" version of BeOS-- it's an ext2 version?
Will it run off an ext2 partition that has, say, a BSD living on it?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
First i'm a faithful loyal BeOS user, going on about 2 years now.I had previously been using Linux since 93. BeOS was cool enough that it caused me to install BeOS as my main OS for all time ( no duel booting for me , when something works stick with it all the way ) Linux and totally swear off using Linux alltogether.So naturaly when I hear of the freebe release, I think of Windows and Linux users running BeOS on top of thier OS. I assumed Linux users would grasp this concept quickly, and would understand the fundamental concepts behind reletivly simple things like ,disk image files, repartitioning,boot loaders,floppy boot disks etc... It has been my experiance over these last few days, that the group of people that seem to have the most trouble grasping how to get a hold of Be and running it or just plain booting it are Linux users, the most adept at it are Windows users. Most of the posters here express true ignorance and show a total unwillingness to learn or even read more about installing freebe. I'd like to help out really,I'd like to explain about say...if your having trouble getting past lilo to boot freebe sucessfully you might try the boot floppy image, and use it to create a boot floppy. I have a feeling any help I or anyone else gives you would fall on deaf ears. Slashdot:open source,closed minds
Because it can! BeOS everywhere! on my desktop! on my laptop! on my wristwatch!
First thats the qnx demo disk your talking about,theres another name for it, crippleware. you can only run what qnx desides to allow you to run off it, it's not the whole os, it's been hacked to fit on the floppy. It's nothing new,you can get Linux and Xfree to fit on a floppy,it's been done. Overall QNX demo is very impressive, but it's not the full os, running in a real world situation, ANY attempt at an evaluation based on it's performance, would be foolish. Second, people would use be for an internet appliance because beos or beia are the same os! what runs on beos will also run on beia! developers that develop for beos will see the results of their work run on beia! internet appliances are hot right now, everybody wants a small device with internet ability in their shirt pocket! beos is very practical for this purpose. moreso than bloated/crappy wince, and linux. Yes, Linux in an internet appliance by comparison to beos is bloatware!Linux as a thinclient sucks! Linux loses a hell of a lot of it's power when redused to fit on a small handheld device. beos only gains from the translation from desktop to handheld.allready i've upgraded from beos 4.5.2 to 5 and i see how much faster beos is because it's the work on beia thats made it do more with less ram. I'm benifiting from be's adventure into the internet appliance market, i hope they go further with it! Such magnificent direction!and vision! Thirdly, about the quote about beia being too big to fit on a planned new system. Read that quote carefully, anything seem strange to you about it???? He says it's a game system! and then he bitches about it not being able to handle 8 megs for storage of the os! even if you could get an os to fit in under 20k,leaving the lions share to your games, wtf kind of games would you play on it! fucking pong????? I don't think so! The game system was to be a single purpose device not a multipurpose internet cabable micro-laptop,the kind of thing beia is truly capable of. forthly, nothing, not even windows, is as hyped as Linux nowadays! and lastly! wtf do you mean when you say a microkernel and a journaling filesystem are overrated?!?!?! no other os on earth implements these "overrated" ideas better than Be! sure their concepts that have been around a long time but until now no one had the vision to use them,and use them well!!! Your blind pal! you have no right to accuse anyone of lack of vision, get some glasses first!
> 2. If you boot BeOS from an ext2 partition, BeOS will be
/beos/ on my ext2fs partition.
> unable to use virtual memory. BeOS' VM works on FAT, not on
> ext2
*blinks*
I assume you mean if you keep the BeOS image on an ext2fs partition?
I don't think this is right, because both top and ProcessControler under BeOS show apps using virtual memory..
Mem: 48.0/48 Mb (100.0%) Change: -5.2 kb/s Swap In: 5.2 kb/s, 90.7 Mb
Im booting using the bootdisk, with the image in
My email addy? should be easy enough.
IANAL (I should have mentioned that before), but I read that somewhere, don't remember where. Here's a link I know found in google.
There it says:
A computer program is protected by copyright because it constitutes a literary work under the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988.[2] From a purchaser's point of view, unless there is some agreement with the owner of the intellectual property in the program, it is almost impossible to use software without infringing the copyright. This is because, in order to load and run a program, the program has to be copied from its permanent storage medium, into the computer. Legitimate use of software therefore depends on having the permission of the owner of the copyright.
So how could someone downloading the beos.tar.gz from an ftp-server know he acted legal unless he finds a text inside giving him the permission to do so.
It was stated that the linux-package wasn't announced on beos.com. Perhaps I'm ignorant, but downloading something isn't legal just because you can.
Let's see, I ran DOS, Mac OS 6, 7, 8, Windows 95, Windows 98 since 1989...uh...those all give computer-wide permissions to the user == root. I ran as root in Linux for a year (I don't now), and only managed to do accidental damage *once*. If I had been running as a user, it wouldn't have helped that time, since the files would have had full permissions to me anyway.
I'm actually quite comfortable running as root, since all those other OS's give root-like permissions.
BeOS is not an attempt at security. It's not even an attempt to gain a large following (as they said when Microsoft named them as an example of an existing competitor). It is a specialized OS, designed for working with multimedia. Its being very pretty is cute bonus.
-lf
I thought I was the only one who loved computers
just for the sake of playing with them.
Mac OS 6 was ok, 7 was good, 7.5 was better,
8 was even better. OS X looks great.
Windows 95 had great ideas.
But poor execution.
Windows 98 was a step backwards.
Windows 2000 is excellent.
Crashes less, easier to use, better security.
Linux rules for the tinkerer.
So which do I use?
Linux.
-lf
the beos site says that no beos PE version has SMP support. Maybe they are wrong, but you have to think; they want people to use BeOS. Why wouldn't they "advertise" such a feature?
PimpSmurf
Stupid people do stupid things... Smart people outsmart each other... --System of a Down
thank you for enlightening me.
I am not a very big beos user, I just run it under vmware.
Stupid people do stupid things... Smart people outsmart each other... --System of a Down
Have you tried the SOundBlaster Pro driver?
I haven't tried BeOS yet, but have a ESS1869 in my laptop and it works fine with the Linux SoundBlaster drivers and by chosing SoundBlaster Pro in DOS games.
...but when BeOS mounts the linux disks they're read-only. No way to modify them that I know of.
So it's a disk image and a boot loader that executes it straight from Linux?
/.'ed (big surprise..)
Can you get it running with vmware? Would it be as easy as configuring the disk image as an vmware virtual disk? I'd try that my self, but the download seems to be
-- v --
You're forgetting that the Pro version will (hopefully) have a java vm, and it will have a more featurefull BeIDE that what's in the devtools zip file, but I tend to use Eddie for programming anyway, I still would
rather use make commands and makefiles. And you get support for it too. And hopefully Be makes Gobe keep non-point releases free for registered users just like it has in the past.
Here is the link to Gobe's website, now that they are distributing BeOS they have the info there.
But the mp3 codec is straight from THE source, Fraunhofer IIS and THOMPSON Multimedia, which means it's way better than lame and crew. And there is no need to decode a cd to a wav anymore, the cdda fs addon lets you look at your audio cd like it's full of wavs, drag and drop and boom you're done, just encode away.
I have to say I bought BeOS 4, to support Be, and hoping that they'll eventually be here (no pun intended) long enough to open the source, because their OS is first class. I sincerely think that BeOS has a much greater chance to win on the Desktop on the short term than Linux, and it seems to me that if they would open the OS and concentrate on making apps for it and supporting it, they would have a much better chance of making a good buck. But, alas, I'm not Be and I don't know enough.
Right now, I'm sticking with Linux. I D/Led BeOS PE and I loved it, but not enough to sacrifice that in which I believe. In the end the choice always belongs to oneself. Mine has already been made.
Cheers,
David
The filesystem does support unix style file permissions, but Be doesn't have any real type of security because its only meant to be used by a single person.
BeOS R5 Pro has a PPC edition, at least thats what bedepot says, so they're still work on that platform just not with computers using the new chipsets that came along with the G3s, G4s and the soon to be announced G4es.
Bedepot, Be's online store, says BeOS R5 PRO has a PPC edition, but there is no Personnel Edition. However, since its an image it may be possible to boot to it using a third party tool. Macs probably have something like that.
But... you don't need swap space with 512 Mb RAM! ... Sure, yeah, sure. But that's not the point. :-)
;-)
Hey, just make a ramdisk and put your swapfiles there.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
huh, I just put it in /home/beos and it worked. BeOS does not know/care what ext2 is your /, so long as only one has a beos directory in it. No symlinks needed, and in fact make no sense to beos. BeOS simply scans each ext2 for a beos directory, and when found tries to use that.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
... yes, but "while no one was watching"?!
...
Actually, there were only a few comments at the time, I thought it was better to do it than ignore it.
It was my fault. Sorry for any inconvenience
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
he already said yes you twit. ive had the same problems. in related notes it didnt recognise my network card ( a compaq one built into the mobo - linux picks it up instantly ). the single user OS part of Be sucks anyway, time to go back to unix.
It'd still have to be launched from Linux.
Although I guess if you mounted an ext2 filesystem from FreeBSD and used the Linux emulation layer it would work.
Hands in my pocket
BeOS r5 for linux has been available for several days already! I've got a tarball on my system labeled "BeOS4Linux.tar.gz" and a date of Mar 28 19:46 on it!
I wasn't able to get on the FTP servers until a day or so after the initial release of R5 was available, and it took me maybe two days to get the whole thing due to a craptacular connection. I don't see how this item should allow for a slashdot posting, let alone several days after the fact. :(
Of course, I could be wrong. In such an event, I'd appreciate someone letting me know.
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
" I don't know much about BeOS, but just reading this thread has caused me to lose interest in it. Would anyone like to tell me why I should be interested in a commercial closed source OS with bad driver support"
:)
*coughcoughcough*
i hear there are a couple of people interested in win2k
I don't know much about BeOS, but just reading this thread has caused me to lose interest in it. Would anyone like to tell me why I should be interested in a commercial closed source OS with bad driver support which needs to be rebooted (!) to start networking? What's it good for, besides the fact that it looks pretty? I thought these were the reasons I left Windows behind. .sig: Not a text file ********
--
$ more ~/.sig
********
$ more ~/.sig
********
where does it say anything about hardware?
=1000101
where does it say anything about hardware?
/. gave me this error in preview.
-------------------------
sorry if this is double
Something is wrong: parent=162 dups=1 discussion=00/04/01/1519245
-Duplicate. Did you submit twice?
-Let us know if anything exceptionally strange happens
=1000101
This release was already released on all the major mirrors- it's how I've been running BeOS on my box, since I refuse to install Windows... : )
Kinda late notice there, eh?
...BeOS for ext2. Pretty much it, no?
Wah!
Ah, but you list off Linux, NetBSD, and Darwin... One under development and owned by Apple, and two free software projects. If Be invested the time/energy to port BeOS to G3/G4, which they don't have enough of as is, they would open themselves up to lawsuits. Since, as opposed to Linux, there is actually someone to sue at Be Inc., they don't want to stick their neck out!
Wah!
You should be reading that BeOS PE doesn't stand alone, you have to boot to it by running a program that reboots to it. If there's a version for linux, that doesn't mean it's a version of BeOS that runs under linux, it means there's a version which you can boot to from linux.
You can install bootman very easily from within BeOS. Simply fire it up, launch a terminal window, and type 'bootman'. It will go through the wizard bit, and then you're off.
That green slime had it coming.
That's funny. A few years ago, I had to edit the networking code in my Red Hat Linux distribution to get my 3c509 working.
Joe
How's this for adaptability:
I was dual-booting BeOS 4.5 and Win98. I upgraded my motherboard and processor (Intel/Asus to Athlon/FIC) and rebooted.
I went through the usual banter of dialog boxes and complaints you get from Windows when you make such a drastic change, having to cancel just about everything (it didn't recognize the CD-ROM, so I couldn't install the new drivers it wanted).
I then booted into Be. Not a peep. Nothing. As a matter of fact, the sound card I had been having trouble with started automagically working.
In the end, I had to reinstall Windows from scratch to get it stable.
Joe
The other news is that the Tracker GUI is Open Sourced. This means that it might be possible to port the GUI to Linux.
I think this is even bigger news!
It's like a trial version, they want you to by the professional edition....
Evrey man & his dog seems to have tried it, IMHO it's a bit like Icewm & such. It doesn't seem to have anything I want tho....
Full plate and packing steel! -Minsc
I read something on the BeOS site, that Windows drivers sometimes are left hanging when the computer shuts down... this might be the source of some problems.
Where is my mind?
mfspr r3, pc / lvxl v0, 0, r3 / li r0, 16 / stvxl v0, r3, r0
Check out Project Upper/Mute, an all-around awesome compiler fra
ROFL, now this is what I like to see, a good old-fashioned cluebie grilling. Moderate this up please, this stuff is great!
Or could just be cause it's 1AM... oh well
FreBe(er) would be more tasty if it was served with BeZilla. If I may pander, this is a good example of Open Source's benefits. A few thousand more people using Be with a handful of developers among them could really help this project out -- it looks like they need it!
--
--
E2 IN2 IE?
How can you have an OS for an OS?
Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
To anybody that downloaded BeOS for Linux:
One thing that irked me about the Personal Edition that I downloaded for Windows was that the ext2 driver was read-only.
I think that it would be espeicially annoying if the Linux version had read-only access to the ext2 partition. So, has the driver been changed?
-Jay Laney
1) The linux port to the G3/G4 architecture was done via reverse-engineering. Apple didn't just say "Here's the specs to our chipsets you guys."
Be can't open itself to the possible lawsuits it would face by reverse-engineering the apple specs. They NEED Apple to give them the specs, so they can stay 100% legal.
I know there will be an argument about reverse-engineering being 100% legal and all that crap, but Be can't afford to even go into the gray area. So it's not their fault that it won't run on G3/G4 systems. (though systems w/ a G3/G4 upgrade card on an older chipset board WILL work)
2) The whole AMIGA/dying media platform thing:
Have you ever USED BeOS? It's much more than just a "Media OS." For every media app there are three General Purpose apps of equal or better quality.
Developers do NOT just focus on media stuff, though the media stuff is impressively easy and powerful.
In every interview and article I have seen, I have always seen apps such as Gobe (an office suite) hyped right along with the media apps.
That said, when you think about it, what current applications (other than office suites and compilers) do you use that won't benefit from an impressive media core in the OS?
Yes, this is all fine and well. But I believe the MINIMUM size that the configuration app allows is 1.5x RAM size, which gets you no where. This may have been changed for R5 (i havn't played with it much), but I've used R3-R4.5 and this was the case.
Ahhh. BeOS by default makes a swapfile that is 1.5x the amount of memory you have. So if you have 512MB of RAM, there isn't enough filespace on the image your booting off of to create a swapfile. I *THINK* you can change this in the kernel configuration file, but I'm not sure, look in the config files and see if you see the setting (should have comments explaining everything).
The linux "version" of BeOS PE was released at the same time as the windows version.
Yes, this story confused me greatly, as I got the tarball on the 28th. OTOH, BeOS is having bad booting problems (not sure what's going on...) so I haven't used it much. Oh, well, whatever...
CRC errors don't indicate a hardware problem if it's the driver that's broken...
Sorry, I don't think Be ditched Apples user base because of the "NeXT over BeOS crap", but simply because they don't have the $$$ to support the smaller user base with a different version of the OS.
Jean-Louis Gasseée writes:
I don't know. Seems like a pretty weak excuse. Lot's of companies reverse engineer hardware all the time with no problem.
You have to restart the specific service ONLY. (networking, sound media, etc) Not the entire OS. Even if you did it takes 15 seconds, but you don't, so stop complaining. Everyone keeps saying Linux needs to be easier to use and install...Be is just a matter of putting it on your harddrive from the Cd or whatever media you've got the installation on. My grandma could use it, it's simple to use, it just needs some more programms. It's stable, haver you ever seen it demoed? They actually do everything they can to crash it (it won't crash by the way) If you would jsut try it, you might like it. At least it's not windows
No, trust me, it does disable it... that's why launching BeOS R5 from Windows doesn't have SMP but SMP magically works using a bootdisk to bypass Windows....
:)
I read it on a BeOS site somewhere... I read too much, so I can't remember where....
I personally install lilo on root of my Linux partition, then install BeOS's bootman into the MBR.
Go to a BeOS Termnial and type bootman to start the install....
Where does it mention harware? Just because Darwin is open source doesn't mean Be can get techincal specifications on the hardware.
Next time, be informed you Apple freak. Anyway, the jump (they were pushed) to x86 is the best thing Be have done. It's increased their user base (especially with the Personal Edition) AND the people at Be think the Intel architecture is better (read the BeOS Bible, and note I didn't say PROCESSOR I said architecture as a whole).
It has something to do with how Win9x is set up for boxes with dual-processors. When a 9x finds more then one processor, it doesn't just ignore them, it disables them. This prevents Be from getting SMP going unless you reboot.
:)
:)
Unfortunatly, Microsoft aren't the type of company to listen if you were to go to them and ask for a change
Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of BeOS. SMP should bump your performence up by almost 100%, not like most OS's. EVERY app you run will be threaded, so EVERY app will go on both processors. And, if my memory serves correctly, you can switch processors off on-th-fly to see the difference. Run the app called "Pulse", I think it's in Applications, it'll show useage too. You'll be able to crank those Seti blocks now
I wish my box were SMP....
Just to clarify (and I know its what the post said, just not crystal-clear, and there are alot of idiots around) Personal Edition does has SMP if you use the boot disk, or copy it onto a BFS partition as decribed at http://skippy.dhs.org.
:)
Just making sure
wrong...
I had that problem with my modem too. I'm not in Be right now, but IIRC, you have to add in a serial port under Prefs >> Devices.
Just add a new jumpered device in the menu and in the device type thing scroll box, you should be able to find serial port or commmunications port or something. It should automatically put in the right IRQs for the port. Restart, then in your Dial Up Networking prefs, in Modem settings, you should be able to choose your new serial port for your modem. I think thats what I did to get it working..
BeOS for linux was out the same day it was for windows. it just doesnt say version 5. But it is. I was kind of fooled by the BeOS4linux.tar.gz i thought it was version 4 but it is actuall version 5. its just saing it FOR linux
If your someone like me with a 400meg / dir. and BeOS untared is 500meg. What I did was Put be in /home/beos and ln -sf /home/beos beos in / dir. And it seems to work fine. The readme says you can put image.be on other partitions but it says nothing about symbolic link. Thats the only way i could get beos to boot.
i don't understand, it's not Apr 1st anymore. this is like saying "Linux For Windows" is out. also there is no link to any information. just a download.
someone clue me in.
-Jon
this is my sig.
As the developer of a very threaded SMP app (for post production) for Windows NT/2000 (and competing with numerous other SMP apps), I can assure you this is not at all the case. Win9x may be single CPU, but there is plenty of demand for raw speed out there, and SMP is still the cheapest way to get it.
Our app not only uses 100% of all CPUs, even on an 8-CPU system, it achieves over 80% of linear performance scaling while doing it. Over 90% for dual and quad systems (the 8-ways have some architectural peculiarities). It's quite possible under Windows, despite the myriad annoyances of the OS.
Be's good/cheap SMP was the main reason I bought a BeBox so long ago, and why I still have a fond eye for it (that, and its API). HOWEVER:
We ran some earlier tests (a year a two ago) on efficiency of the kernal's thread-switching, and a little to our surprise, we found NT's kernal was slightly (1% or so) more efficient than BeOS's, when running executables on each compiled by the same (MS) compiler, and linked by the native linker (I'm not sure if this is possible any longer, due to subsequent changes by Be).
OTOH, when testing Be's native compiler vs. the Intel Windows reference compiler, there were huge differences (30%-80% faster(!) under NT, even more for some operations).
This is great for computationally-intensive Windows programs (like ours), but during interactive usage, all of this gain is swallowed by Window's clunky, not-very-threaded interface (and don't even get me started on the abomination that is MFC). So BeOS does often "feel" faster and slicker.
Daniel Koch
daniel@eyeonline.com
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
All I did to get R5 on its own partition was to format one of my extra partitions to BFS, and did a 'dd if=/BeOS/image.be of=/dev/hdb4' (change to whatever partition you want it on), and then made sure that there were no Folders name BeOS in the root directory of Linux or Windows (when BeOS loads it looks for these folders on all partitions it can read and then boots images from that dir. If you have more than one then it boots all of them which gets weird).
I still have to use the boot disk to start, and unfortunately Linux doesn't have BFS support yet (you can try at this page, but I couldn't get the patches to work), so I can't boot it with LILO. Hopefully I'll be able to find LILO for BeOS so I won't have to use the boot floppy or boot from windows anymore.
I am running LinuxPPC on a Blue and White G3. (please don't flame me for that, I don't want to get into why Macs are better:). Unfortuantly, this means that I can't run BeOS. I would really like to try it out and see what good it is, but I don't have the right hardware. So right now, I am trying to get it to run through emulation, either via VirtualPC via Mac-on-Linux (VirtualPC crashs when run under MOL) or via bochs (an x86 emulator).
Bochs seems to boot off of the floppy image that comes w/ the BeOS stuff, but then I think it tries to restart as a BeOS box (through emulation) and the emulator assumes that it is a shutdown command and dies. Is there any way to directly boot Be w/o having to muck about with this floppy image (frankly, I don't really expect that it would work anyway, it is expecting Linux, no?)? i.e. can BeOS be booted off of the same drive/partition/floppy &c. that it runs on?
I really wish I saw this earlier, because I'm sure that I have no chance of getting an answer (hell, I'd be suprised if anyone even reads this). Still, I would really like to play around with many layers of emulation &c. and would really appreciate any help.
Thanks in advance,
al
-----
Rhapsody in Numbers
1. The Apple-Be thing has been beaten to death. Be made a strategic move to Intel, not a move of desperation because they were denied specs. It is a shame they aren't actively developing across platforms, but such are the drawbacks of closed source.
2. Slashdot == News for Nerds, not News for OSS advocates. As far as I can tell BeOS is the most advanced OS out today, and is therefore newsworthy among this audience. I would love for it to be open (see 1), but this doesn't stop me from drooling all over it.
The largest change between the 1868 and 1869 was a slight revision and the addition of more Windows friendly Plug and Pray, er, Play. The problem with the persistant IDE controller (for cards without the IDE connector) on the 1898 was also resolved on the 1869. Either way, both are extremely low cost, low quality chipsets. And both are full of bugs with their SoundBlaster Pro emulation.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
why should we develop a closed source proprietery OS ?
its better to concentrate on developing GNU/Linux, *BSD and other free operating systems.
-- http://electronicintifada.net --
Plus:
Recognized my video card perfectly, I was able to bump up to 1600x1200x32bpp easily
Booted quickly
Minus:
Didn't work with my SB16 sound card (Boo hiss!)
Wouldn't talk to my modem. It seems it only supports the first two serial lines, and my modem is on the third (com3|ttyS2)...
(Maybe it's there and I missed it) I didn't see anything like a file manager...
I'll play with it some more, but I'll be damned if I'm messing with my modem!
FYI - linux/LILO play nicely with ez-bios. I have an 8gig Maxtor with ez-bios in my P200 and linux/lilo work great. The boot sector was not overwritten and linux detects ez-bios and the geometry remap during boot up. If your interested in running linux I suggest you try doung an actuall install. btw I run RH but I doubt that makes a difference. I am very surprised that Be doesn't handle the ez-bios correctly its handled by every other usable OS.
Government is the abdication of your responsibility to a faceless bureaucracy. Anarchy(absence of government)is the a
ftp://ftp.c-60.org/pub/beos/
Apple refuses to give Be the specs for their machines since the Beige G3's.
The specs for the Apple G3 machines are available on the Apple web site. They're written in the C language, in a document called "Darwin kernel source code"; take a look if you have the time.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Apple has released the specs for the G3 hardware. Someone should tell J-L G to Read The Fsckin' Source.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Apple refused to release the necessary specs
So what's Darwin?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Where does it mention harware? Just because Darwin is open source doesn't mean Be can get techincal specifications on the hardware.
What better technical specification is there than the complete source code for a working operating system kernel?
Will I retire or break 10K?
>8.3 filenames may *appear* lowercase, but they >are stored as uppercase, and that's how BeOS >shows 'em.
;)
;)
8.3? We are talking vfat, right?
>CRC errors indicate hardware problems, not >software problems.
Since I don't have that problem with other OS's,
I'm not sure... But changing MTU, MRU, bsdcomp etc. etc. might help.... oh, that's right, you can't do that with Be....
> If your other OS is not warning you of these, >you should consider upgrading to a *real* OS.
... I'm not sure this is the right forum to flame linux!
Bjarne
*UGH*, I'm dumbass'ed.... I'm beaten... I have no defence against the "dumbass"-card, the ultimate answer to end all answers...
/sarcasm off
The dirs/files was created in lowercase, and linux handles it just fine.
Bjarne
I was out March 28. and been running on my machine since.... And it havn't made me laugh.
:-(
Too many small bugs that shouldn't have been in a mature OS like Be...
And Dialup-networking/modem-support still doesn't work propperly...
Bjarne
Well then, I'm not sure this i the right place to flame Slackware! ;)
;)
Anyway, filesystemsupport is kernel-issue...
Bjarne
>> The dirs/files was created in lowercase, and >>linux handles it just fine.
;)
>Please forward a sample file to >ftp.beos.com/pub/devel as we've been unable to >recreate your
How, do you suppose I do that? Zip'ing a directory from linux, and you'll get the files translated the-linux-way. Zip'ing it from BeOS you'll get them translated the BeOS-way. Neither will give you a "hardcopy" of the partion. Of cause I'd think that the linux-intepretation is the correct one, so I could just mail you this, but that wont help you!
>problem, are you *sure* that they arnt *really* >uppercase to begin with?
I'm pretty sure! Just testet it.
Bjarne
Boy your answer is hard to read. Some comments:
;-)). But contrary to BeOS I've got a lot of options to fiddle with, to make it work. All BeOS has to offer, when things doesn't work out of the box? Nada! Well, you might get lucky with some custom init-string, but that's all. AND it happens Be can't cope with your init-string.
1) PPP/Dialup with *nix can be a hazzle as well, granted (lost many sleepless night on that account! RH sucks, Slackware rule!
2) As for my modem. A ZyXEL omni.net+. So if you think that's a weird rarity...
3) As for smalle bugs. Most annoying is the keymaps. Deadkeys doesn't work for the danish keymap. And using danish characters on IRC, WWW, whereever turns them into plain jibberish.... Sure, it migth be flaws in the apps, I using.
4) VFAT-support sucks. Coppied a directory from a VFAT-partion to a Be-partion. All lowercase names was turned into uppercase, while mixed-case was left untouched. All executables was made unexecutable, kewl... NOT.
5) And let's stop where we started, the network. I get lots of CRC-errors. So the netexperience is a pain in the butt.
Now, take the QNX-floppy demo, THAT's impressive. the dialup-networking worked PERFECTLY. No hassles, no errors, nothing!
Bjarne
I suggest you try 'fdisk'. BeOS is a lame attempt at a decent OS for PC's and while it runs, upon first install at least, more smoothly than Windoze it still has a non-existant security model and, let's face it, the single most important issue for long term stability is the security of the file system. If you run Linux as root you're bound to do damage. Anyone want to buy a copy of BeOS?
:wq
Well, I keep the BeOS image file under an ext2fs partition. BeOS complained about not being able to generate swap space. Thanks for the "Don't nag" function it doesn't bother me again but still I have no swap space. I'm unable to enable it, too.
... Sure, yeah, sure. But that's not the point. :-)
I just thought of it why, it's another reason! I have 512 Mb RAM memory, and this forces me to use a minimal swap space of 640 (or something) Mb under BeOS. This is more than the BeOS file is, so...
But... you don't need swap space with 512 Mb RAM!
I'm tired of Unix getting beat up on by you people because it's not open source when you turn around and say "Hey, BeOS, cool!"
Until v 4.0 Xfree86 had horrible ATI Mach64 support for non PCI models - ISA and VLB machines could have no more than 12 meg of total system ram - regardless of how much video memory the card had. Do you know how many 486's ha(d/ve) Mach 64 chips in them? I doubt it stopped anyone from using Xfree!
Desperation is a stinky cologne
The software industry is making it just fine with "unportable proprietary software". Last time I checked it made up over 90% of the software in use today.
Idiot OS zealots...
--
well... I installed RH4.2 at some point in time, a couple of days later my floppy burned, and well... never really had a use for it since, I mean, I got an internet connection, so... why?
what is life but a sensation of feelings, and what is time but a collection of experiences...
> fucked boot sector
:)
solution: tear out the hd and mount
it on another box.
what is life but a sensation of feelings, and what is time but a collection of experiences...
so... can u use lilo/loadlin to boot beos r do u really need the floppy thingie (I don't have a floppy drive in any of my puters!). Hmm, in Be4 u could create a partition for be, so... is that not an option anymore?
what is life but a sensation of feelings, and what is time but a collection of experiences...
Well I bought it since ver. 3 so... IMHO the most important thing for an OS is protected memeory and BeOS got lots of it... Also, Be have prepared the OS for file system security. Planned to be added in a later version - when is another question.. Also, it's not meant to be a server...
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
I don't get it either. Now if they had VM/CMS for Linux, that would be a different story!
--- Speaking only for myself,
Apple refuses to give Be the specs for their machines since the Beige G3's. It would be silly for them to, since they are targeting the same audience. I'm not sure why slashdot would be interested in Be either. Especially since it's CEO, Jean Louis Gassee, was a fervent advocate of keeping Apple's hardware proprietary, when he worked there. Who knows, maybe he changed?
I like BeOS.
It lacks some features I want. (I purchased 4.5x86 and have no regrets). I installed BeOS 5 on 3 machines in the last couple of days. It works fine on 2 of the machines, the other has an ATI card which they admit to having poor support for. (Works in safe mode ok).
The file system is quite good. It seems to be fast, fast enough I hardly even notice it on my system. The GUI is a clean design, with all the necesary features. I don't like the distributed nature of their configuration programs, but that isn't a big deal.
I love not having to reboot almost regardless of what I wish to change. (Drivers included).
It needs better networking support. A better browser. (Netpositive is decent now in 5, but it lacks a decent and flexable tool bar.).
It should support SMB. 4.5 had an experimental version. It looks like it was left out of the personal edition in its entirety. Hopefully it has not been dropped. Otherwise I would like a port of Samba.
I don't quite understand how you can complain about the size of Beos. It boots damn quick, and isn't all that big.
The file system is damn nice. Having indexable attributes is downright cool. Very usable.
BeOS needs a good scripting language to go with it. Something that is Be-Centric would be nice.
Be may be closed source, but for such a product it seems quite open and encourages development.
Be doesn't seem to have abandoned PPC support, it just isn't pervasive. A little hard to be since Apple doesn't want to release the necessary specifications. (May have with Darwin, but that is VERY recent).
I don't believe for a moment that Be wouldn't add freeware/GNU drivers if they were encourages to for speciatly hardware/support. They seem to be familiar with what open source can, and cannot do.
The kernel is closed source, beyond that they seem quite liberal with source code.
BeOS isn't perfect, but it is nicer than working with Linux at the desktop. I like Linux, i use it, but on a simple desktop BeOS is a good match.
When BEOS was made available, I first tried downloading the Windows version, but somehow it was corrupt. I then found the Linux version on the mirrors, and tried that. It downloaded and installed without a hitch. The only problem was that my video card (AT3D) was not supported, so I couldn't really see what the fuss was all about. I did like the ability to mount ext2 partitions though.
Note that for anyone trying this, there was a read me that came with it, that said that this is only provided for you to play around with, and do not try getting support for it.
The important thing is the incentives. Be has a financial incentive for their developers to make things as good as possible, in the areas you mentioned of speed, ease of interface and multimedia support. In order to get users, they /have/ to make a better system. But if they were to achieve market dominance, these would fall behind as they would find they could make more money off of playing M$-style games of marketing and overcharging for what many consider "the only option." We would be relying on them intending to remain good guys instead of just wanting to make more money to insure we had a quality system.
With Linux good development will always happen because the only incentive is to have a good system. Similarly with *BSD.
So while Be may be better now, expect that to slow up with time as the incentive is removed.
In fact, if all you guys would develop BSD as actively, people would flock to it because of the BSD license.
What if we don't like the BSD license as much as the GPL? You trying to tell us what to develop?
Sure, the reason Linux has more users is because people chose to develop it more, but there were reasons behind this as well. Besides, in the open source world things are IMHO better with less users, particularly mainstream ones who don't know how to develop the system themselves. That's why I like BSD and I want it to stay that way.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
It's called Phat Linux.
The idea is, it loads from an existing partition with a windows/linux FS, and is activated from within windows/linux rather than by rebooting and boot-selecting.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
How about, if it is owned by root, with permissions set so only root can use it, or is not suid, others can't? Think--it's not a feature of the design of a program whether it can be run, but how the permissions are set and who owns it.
And IMHO, it would have to be suid root or run by root to work because it would try to access things only root can access to reboot in another OS. So if another user puts it on, it wouldn't run without root intervention. I don't think it's possible to have a program which reboots in another OS without root access, without exploiting an existing security hole.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
I figured it was a good idea, since not everyone likes to mess with re-paritioning and such.
The link is dead right now, but I'll be putting it on a faster server (OC-12) that can handle more connections, and then my server won't crash. Don't fret girls and boys.
-Patrick Mullen http://dukeofurl.n3.net
Where does it mention harware? Just because Darwin is open source doesn't mean Be can get techincal specifications on the hardware.
What better technical specification is there than the complete source code for a working operating system kernel?
I can think of a lot of better technical specs than scouring gazumpteen source files. Hmm...maybe the technical specs themselves would be better technical specs. Moreover, being granted access to the errata on those specs is arguably even more important. Unless source is copiously commented, which not all of it is, looking at source is only so helpful, and it's never as good as real documentation. "Source code as hardware documentation" is a backassward concept.
This whole topic drives me a bit nuts. What would Be gain by supporting these machines anyway? I can build a nice dual PIII machine cheap (maybe $12-1300). But other people have pointed all these issues out...Be is a commercial company, and unlike LinuxPPC or other groups (admirable though they may be), Be has a lot to lose if it's sued. And Apple has proven itself to be litigious. Sure, they haven't sued the LinuxPPC guys, but why would Apple sue the LinuxPPC guys for reverse engineering the iMac and G3/G4 machines? There's no money, and precious little prestige in smacking the little guy around. Be, on the other hand, can be viewed as a competitor to Apple (not by me necessarily).
If I were running Be, I'd support Apple's more recent hardware if
Just because source is out there in the world and someone can dig through it and try to divine the details of motherboard designs that may or may not be working as spec'd, doesn't mean that's a good use of anybody's time.
s'all I have to say 'bout that.
>People tout BeOS's speed... but I wonder if it's >just a UI look and feel issue, due to BeOS not >having the overhead that X does.
Could be a part of it.
>Has anyone objectively benchmarked BeOS SMP
>performance vs. Windows NT, Linux 2.2/2.3,
>(insert your favorite)BSD, Solaris x86, etc.?
Benchmarks don't always reflect real world
performance...
The main advantage BeOS has is that it is designed to use threads pretty much throught the
entire system. For example, every window opened
by an application has its own message thread, which the OS can distribute among CPUs according
to load.
Also, the UI kit is thread-safe so you
can spawn worker threads to perform other operations and still deal with incoming messages/repaint events (QT isn't threadsafe, gtk+ wasn't
the last time I checked).
C-YA
Jon
http://www.dookie.demon.co.uk
However, in this particular case, the 3c509 driver is BROKEN and requires you to reboot. There were similar driver nuisances with earlier Linux versions, too - ever hear from someone who had to boot DOS and initialize their soundcard before Linux would use it? Driver support can be a royal PITA.
Also, BeOS is a LOT closer to Linux than Windows. Don't let the Evil Corporate Backing scare you off. The OS isn't opensource but it's very opensource friendly - half the utilities are GNU and Be has opensourced some of the UI. Frankly, I consider it being like Linux with a much better user interface, much easier hardware configuration (no work is hard to beat) and a tighter architecture. The downsides are some difficulties porting Unix code that depends on a couple things like mmap() or sockets-as-files and a much weaker network subsystem. (Of course, Linux's network code makes most other operating systems look bad, too.)
(the Be Adventure was also worth reading).
Someone posted something similar on one of the Be lists - he did an upgrade and moved the old HD into the new box. BeOS boots flawlessly with everything working. Inspired by this, he then swapped that drive into a couple other boxes he had with identical results except for (IIRC) a sound card that wasn't supported. This is what PnP is supposed to Be like!
ftp://ftp.be.com/pub/beos/BeOS4Linux.ta r.gz
should be on mirrors as it propogates (sp?)
-----
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
Q: Does this mean BeOS 5 Personal Edition runs "under" Windows?
A: No. Although you can launch BeOS via a file within Windows, BeOS does not run as a Windows application. Double-clicking the file will exit Windows and boot BeOS from a large file in the FAT file system which contains within it a BFS volume.
I guess the setup for Linux is similar. It's not exactly for Linux though, is it?
things. take. time.
Come on. You can't just refer to a 40 Meg tarball withouting saying a single word what this might be about. "BeOS for Linux" doesn't sound very plausible to me in any way.
Please don't simply post a submission like this without a single comment.
Yeah, as I said, the 3c509 driver has some quirks - and they're compounded by the fact that BeOS r5 handles drivers a little differently.
I don't remember not being able to just restart networking in r4 after editing the config file - under r5, restarting actually rewrites the config file first, which undoes the changes you made - hence the need to reboot. If there was a method of restarting the networking subsystem WITHOUT rewriting the config files (such as a command-line app I may not yet be aware of) then I'm sure you could accomplish this without rebooting.
Another little issue with the 3c509 driver under r5 is that after installing the driver, opening the network prefs panel crashes the system. I don't remember this happening under r4 either (it has been a while since I installed the card in r4) - this is obviously due to 1) the driver being a little buggy, and 2) r5 handling the drivers a bit differently.
It would be nice if someone managed to write a driver for the 3c509 that didn't have these problems - but once you have the card configured, you really don't see the problems, as you really should only have to configure networking ONCE.
(On a side note, you can do all of the config from the Network conf file - including enabling the telnet and ftp servers, without needing the prefs app -- the only thing that's a bit tricky is setting a password, as it's encrypted - but the same encrypted string will pass the same password on another machine - so you can just get a buddy with a supported networking card to set his machine with your password, then copy the encrypted string to your conf file, and you're set)
If you take a look at the driver author's site (which I don't know off the top of my head - if you look for the driver over at bebits.com you'll find a link to it) you'll see that there has been a bit of an impasse with progress on the driver - some sort of disagreement with the 3c509 LINUX driver developers (he probably used some of their code) the basic point of which is that he can't release his source, and has stopped distributing the driver himself. If anyone knows more about this, feel free to add in what you know.
Something you may want to be aware of:
The 3c509 driver DOES work with BeOS r5 - but it does have some quirks. Follow the instructions that come with it -- but make sure you enable EVERYTHING you want to run (telnet/ftp servers, username & password especially) before you edit the Network config file (a required part of installing the driver). The reason why? Once you switch the driver path over to the 3c509 driver, and reboot to restart networking (since restarting it from the prefs panel rewrites the file you just modified), opening the Network Prefs panel WILL crash your machine. But - the card will work.
Some things to keep in mind:
Make sure the card is NOT in PnP mode if it's the ISA model - use the util on the 3Com floppy (I think it's 3c5x9cfg.exe) to turn off PnP -- set an IRQ and mem addy yourself, and save it to the card - remember what you set it to, and use those to configure the card under Be.
People tout BeOS's speed... but I wonder if it's just a UI look and feel issue, due to BeOS not having the overhead that X does.
Has anyone objectively benchmarked BeOS SMP performance vs. Windows NT, Linux 2.2/2.3, (insert your favorite)BSD, Solaris x86, etc.?
I grabbed it on the 28th too, and the image/boot disk setup worked like a charm. Just a shame that my Ensoniq SoundScape (AD1848 chipset) is silent under the BeOS-- and from looking at the drivers sites, it's going to stay that way :-(
;-) I know I'm going to make sure my stuff can build on Be.
Y'all don't forget to download BeOS5-DevTools.zip, y'hear? An OS isn't an OS when it doesn't have [a-z]*cc somewhere!
What I really like about FreeBe (aside from the merits of BeOS as a media operating system) is that it's going to be an awesome platform for acid-testing the cross-platformness of software. The filesystem layout has only a hint of UNIX to it, and of course the OS facilities are very different from UNIX-like systems (standard POSIX being the only constant). A lot of software packages out there that build on Linux/UNIX are not going to build on BeOS, and in a lot of cases, it's going to be because of silly little UNIX-centric assumptions in the configure script, or the code, or wherever. Here, now, is an opportunity to get rid of those!
Methinks a lot of maintainers are going to be getting patches to that effect, in these coming months
iSKUNK!
The image file / boot floppy setup is really nice if you don't want to go through the ordeal of repartitioning, but having to pull out a floppy everytime you want to start up BeOS is kind of annoying too.
Is there a way to set up LILO so that it can read the floppy image off an ext2 partition, and "boot" it? So that no floppy drive is ever involved? That would be very handy.
iSKUNK!
Auctally, it says
"Unfortunately, BeOS 5 Personal Edition, because of technical
reasons, can only recognize one processor."
Those technical reasons are the fact that your average joe will be using Windows 9x, and just running the bootstrap inside windows.
Windows 9x does not support SMP, it disables any other CPU's.
So in order to get SMP, you have to use the bootdisk.
I beleive www.benews.com has something about it..
ahhh, here..
http://www.benews.com/story/2931.2.html
My email addy? should be easy enough.
Uhm,
actually it's the other way around.
If there's no license granting you to do anything with that 40MB data you just downloaded, you're effectivly warezing.
It's not all allowed what is not explicitly forbidden.
It's funny. Yes, it does support SMP, unless you are booting from windows9x, which disables SMP.... but I have to wonder..
What idiot would be running win9x on an SMP box anyway??
The linux "version" of BeOS PE was released at the same time as the windows version.
If you FTP'd to the mirrors, you would of seen it.
I have a 10GB drive which the BIOS seems to think is 540MB (despite the fact that the BIOS date is 1998 and supports LBA). I have a 2 GB partition which LILO refuses to boot (It was windows, so I didn't care and simply didn't use it).
:-)*
Bootman had no trouble booting it. I thought it wasn't going to work but I tried it anyway. It rules.
So I happily ran the BeOS installer, formatted the partition, and installed Be. I'm now hooked. It is a truly excellent OS.
The only problem now is that there are not a lot of apps that I use for it. I'd like to see implementations of the Linux libraries so that I can configure;make;make install any old piece of software.
Heh, now I sound like one of those Windows guys who seem to think that Linux has no apps...
Having said that, I own about ten different Compaq systems (Deskpros, not the awful Presarios) and every single one of them uses the ESS 1868 chipset. It pains me to throw away a perfectly good full-duplex 16-bit sound card and go buy SBLives.
ESS1868's aren't full duplex, I got conned on that too...
MX300's are much cheaper and better then SBLives in my opinion, and BeOS seems to support them, there are linux drivers (a few problems with them but most everything works), and the windows drivers.. yeow, it screams.
-- iCEBaLM
It's not limited to 500mb.
In fact, I don't even use the image. I've been using BeOS since r3 as my toy OS. Just open up the Drive Partitioner (cannot remember the name, but it's in preferences in the Be menu) and repartition/make a new parititon. Then, bust open a trusty bash shell in Terminal and run "Installer" and boom, install onto new partition.
First, Be started running on PowerPC hardware. The original BeBoxes had dual PPC 603 processors and generally looked really wicked. You can see one at http://www-classic.be.com/p roducts/bebox/dual603ds.html (the LEDs in front show relative processor activity. Very neat.)
Now what I'm wondering is why Be didn't make a personal release of PR5 available for the MacOS. So they can't get it to boot from an image, forcing you to install it on a separate partition---SO??? That's the way all the other PR releases have been and, frankly, I don't see any reason to not support the Mac seeing as there is a version of PR5 available for sale. And you can't argue 'support costs' because most people who install Be tend to know what the hell they're doing with their machines.
----
----
Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
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Oh stop being such a curmudgeon! Be is not trying to rip anybody off or screw them with some ulterior proprietary motives. These guys are hardly making any profit (I can't see how they are), they've bent backwards to try to attract and please developers. Come off it. These are a bunch of guys who decided to make a new OS from the ground up, incorporating modern design techniques and trying to escape the cruft of legacy OSs. And I think they've done a _damn_ good job. The reason you should develop for Be? Because the hacker in you wants to play with some new interesting technology. I sure hope that's the reason you work on Linux or BSD. If not, you might as well just go back to being a rank and file code grinder.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I keep hearing that Be is complaining that Apple won't open the specs they need to do their stuff. I'm left wondering, however, if this is simply an excuse of some sort.
There are quite a few open-source OS's that already run on the G3 and G4. These include:
Linux
mkLinux (Not made by Apple anymore, but someone else is developing it)
Darwin
NetBSD (I'm pretty sure there's a Mac port of this)
What specs could Be POSSIBLY need from Apple in order to complete their port when there are at least 4 open-source OS's out there that had NO problem moving from the 603s and 604s to the G3s and G4s.
Confused...
What makes you think that it's illegal to reverse engineer Apple's hardware? Besides, Apple, as a company, obviously fully supports the non-Apple efforts to have Linux on the Mac, otherwise I'd hardly think they'd dedicate a small section of their website to links and information about linux on the PPC. http://ppclinux.apple.com/
I believe Be blaming Apple for the fact they haven't done a port to the G3 is an excuse, and a poor one at that. HOW difficult could it be to port BeOS from the 9500/9600/8500/8600 series of 604 and 604e based machines to the G3 machines when the ppclinux team got it working several days after the machines came out. Please.
Is it a little disturbing to you that this thing has the Linux icon? Sure I can kind of understand that this is the FreeBe version FOR Linux, but wouldn't the Be icon be more appropriate as its is BEOS for linux? Or is the author trying to take advantage of the fact that an article filed under linux has a much better chance of getting in? (Actually I'm not trolling. You wouldn't believe the alternative OS stuff that gets ignored on /. That neverwinter nights thing really pissed me off (where neverwinter nights for Linux was the only one posted on /. even though the BeOS version had been announced a month before.))
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Actually a fairly functional BeOS gets down to 2 meg. Quite a bit bigger than QNX, but still not horribaly bloated.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
There is no reason to use a kernel config file. its not linux you know. Just go to preferences, swap, and move the slider down to a sane level!
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
NO, usually you just restart networking, like in Linux (using a graphical applet, of course).
The problem with the 3c509 driver is, as I understand, that it's not written properly, so it does not interact with the configuration system correctly.
It's there, in the "readme".
Sigged!
Actually, there is a 3c509 driver floating around, and if you go to www.begroovy.com, ang go to the "forum" section, there is this "support" forum where people that complained of not 3c509 not working, were contacted by the author of the driver. I got it this way, but I am not sure I am allowed to distribute the driver (I didn't find the driver on BeBits, so I guess it's not totally redistributable).
Anyway, the guy's handle is H-kon (one of the site admins at begroovy).
Good luck!
Sigged!
Yes, but you have to download the new driver for BeOS 5 from the RealTek site (www.realtek.com.tw)
I don't have a RTL 8139-based netcard myself, but was browsing yesterday night through the realtek site, and was amazed that they have a separate driver for BeOS 4.x and 5.
Sigged!
It's quite simple. Be Inc wanted to go the "legal" way instead of reverse engineering as Linux has done to create it's port. Be Inc is a company, meaning they are very accessable for lawsuits. It's simply not worth it
1. BeOS already runs on most Macintoshes up to G3. It does not run on G3/G4 as Apple refused to release the necessary specs to Be Inc. No G3/4 hack was made due to fear of lawsuits, and generally lack of time/money needed to devote programmers for this. x86 was a much more profitable architecture, and so BeOS was ported to it.
2. BeOS is for the major part,closed source. JLG already stated that "The kernel is ours" Unless Be Inc goes under, don't expect to see the code released.
Personally, I'm quite happy with it being closed source, and so are the majority of BeOS users. We preffer what works, not what's OSS Politically correct.
Call me an idiot then. Win98 partition on a dual Pentium II 400. I need it for running my son's games, and it is easier developing DOS games using native DJGPP than using the Unix-for-DOS version.
:-)
If I didn't have to pay for Win2k, I'd load that up instead just for the SMP support. Windows has its uses - although I only boot into it once a week or so.
This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
What are you using to provide support for ESS 1868 in 4.5.2? It's not part of the standard drivers set so where did you download it?
= -=-=-=-=-=-=-
- JoeShmoe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Despite being one model number apart, the 1869 appears to be nothing like the 1868. I suspect when the 1869 came out, it was powerful enough that it could emulate the SB Pro, much in the way modern SB cards still emulate the older ones for backward compatibility.
= -=-=-=-=-=-=-
The 1868 isn't the same, it's just bare bones business audio. Everything on Compaq's websites seems to point to specialized drivers.
- JoeShmoe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Yeah, yeah, I know that the driver game is a crap shoot, and if are a true nerd, you build a system from scratch choosing components that work with your target OS.
= -=-=-=-=-=-=-
Having said that, I own about ten different Compaq systems (Deskpros, not the awful Presarios) and every single one of them uses the ESS 1868 chipset. It pains me to throw away a perfectly good full-duplex 16-bit sound card and go buy SBLives. Even worse, on the newer EN models the sound is integrated on the mobo, so it's not just the cost of the card, it's giving up a precious PCI slot.
ESS and Sound Blaster Pro are practically blood relatives, so if there is anyone out there that whip up some ESS 1868 support for BeOS, I know at least a hundred Compaq users that would be extremely grateful.
I mean for crying out loud...just how many Echo and NewClear users are there? Certainly fewer than the number of ppl who own Deskpros...
- JoeShmoe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Running BeOS under VMWare is not a very cool thing to do. BeOS access APIC features more often than other operating systems, and that makes BeOS under VMWare very slow. Look out for plex86 for BeOS! You also want to run BeOS natively if you want good media performance and low latency in drivers. You simply dont run BeOS "just for the applications"... yes, that's sad but true... at least for now.. The situation should improve as more developers and people try out BeOS.
BeOS runs under VMWare? The VMWare website claims that it does not! In fact, it explicitly lists BeOS as an OS that doesn't run under VMWare. Could you please enlighten me (perhaps privately, if this is getting too OT), as to how you've gotten this to work? Thanks very much! Adam .sig. It isn't very big.
This is my
This is my
--An Oldie, but a Goodie!
This is utterly untrue. I can't even begin to imagine where you got this misinformation from. Did you just make it up because it sounded good? The absence of a license agreement does not indicate that the entity that holds the rights to the software has a)given up his or her rights to such software or b)that the user is not legally able to use the software. Precedent would suggest that the copyright holder retains the right to the software, although the entity would be unable to coerce a user of the software to abide by any retroactive license agreement. The user would be unable to use Be's intellectual property as his or her own, but would not be required to abide by, say a future clause against reverse engineering or decompilation of code.
The image files extracted from the tgz and exe files are identical. However, there are some differences noticable.
1. If you want to enable SMP, boot off the disk supplied in the tgz. SMP is disabled after booting Windows.
2. If you boot BeOS from an ext2 partition, BeOS will be unable to use virtual memory. BeOS' VM works on FAT, not on ext2.
People who are experiencing driver problems, try the driver section at BeBits. My Rtl8139 ethernet start working after installing a fresh driver.
Well, I played with it for a few hours. Looks very solid and has a lot of potential. A few remarks, however... I did a few ping tests and they showed a pretty slow response from the BeOS system (3 times as slow as from a Linux system). I tried Quake2 but I probably installed something wrong. It runs almost frozen.
Beware, this question is likely mired in ignorance, so feel free to moderate it out, but... Would it not be possible, if there were sufficient interest, for the Open Source Community to port BeOS to the Macintosh hardware platform? I'm suggesting that, with the infinite resources of this community, we could, almost by trial and error and help from LinuxPPC (don't know if that even applies) get another OS for the still viable Macintosh platform. Perhaps some sort of deal could be struck that they adopt the GPL if we helped in this regard?
*Honestly, if you force yourself to smile, your mood does improve - worth trying once, no?*
You can find it at BeOS Network Drivers section at tucows.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Before you talk about how BeOS for Linux is impossible, maybe you should go to BeOS Personal Edition's website and read up on it a bit.
It's worth noting that if you install using the windows executable, you're presented with a licensing agreement you have to agree to. The usual stuff- will not use it for commercial purposes yadayadayada....
BUT installing using the linux tarball doesn't actually give you this license. You get the BFS image file, a boot floppy image and a readme file telling you how to install it. No license agreement. In fact, you don't get told about it until you try to use that installation to install a second one. So, I think Be have made a major mistake here- if you're not presented with the agreement you don't have to agree with it. IANAL of course, but if you're not presented with something to agree to, it seems to make sense that you don't have to agree with it.
--
Said it couldn't last, said it wouldn't last... This is the last stand against tomorrow's world.
I thought there was a 3c509 driver available but a quick search didn't find it. I suggest you ask on BeUserTalk.
But to find drivers and third-party software for the BeOS, I suggest you try:
Also, while technical support is not available from Be, Inc. for the personal edition, the BeUserTalk mailing list is very good; many BeOS engineers and experienced users frequent it and answer questions.
- Be Mailing Lists
For programmers there is also BeDevTalk and BeCodeTalk.Michael D. Crawford
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
It doesn't run in Linux. The file expands to an image of a beos filesytem and a boot floppy image which you write to a floppy and reboot to run it. Essentially it saves the step of creating a new partition although you can do it later once you got Beos running. Secondly, the 40MB files expands to 580MB of which about 1/3 is used up wrt to the beos filesystem! I tried it out today. Beos is very slick looking but the worst part is a lack of hardware support. It doesn't support my 3com 509 card and many others. This thing doesn't look like crippleware like some people say and looks like the real thing. However you will have to download the development stuff later from their ftp site.
Ok, I keep seeing people post stuff that isn't true about the BeOS "Personal edition" so here are the _facts_ /beos, use the boot disk and you're off.
BeOS 5 PE is NOT a trial version, crippled or an "evaluation".
It is the entire OS, all of it.. just the same BeOS "Pro Version"
It IS BeOS..
Another thing.
The title of the article is wrong.. The linux "version" just includes a readme, be partition image and a bootdisk image.
Copy the image to
Im guessing it's just for users of OS's other then windows, since they wouldn't be able to run the installer exe that the windows "version" needs.
Also, BeOS "PE" does support SMP, and various other things.
You just have to use the bootdisk, instead of using the windows loader.
(Windows 9x disables all the other CPU's)
Also, you are NOT limited to just the BFS image partition.
Once you have it running, you can use Installer to copy/install BeOS (your current setyp) to any other partition.
So, make some free space, run BeOS from the image and install it there.
Summary: BeOS 5 PE is the entire OS, it has no limitations.
The only thing different between PE and the Pro version is what Be has told you. Realplayer, mp3 encoders (which you can download anyway) etcetc.
Do not let anyone fool you, including Be.
My email addy? should be easy enough.
Warning - this will be marked as a troll :)
/.ed skippy]). The OS's that can be used with the personal edition are Win9x and NT/2k, and Linux on the Intel platform. This is due to the fact that Apple will not supply the required hardware specifications to Be (not because of the NeXT over BeOS crap, just because Apple when with NeXT doesn't mean Be would ditch a platform's user base, because when your company is that small, you can't ditch users by choice).
- inBeOS help, or BeOS info in general, feel happy to e-mail me at the above address (figure it out :)
:)*
Free BeOS R5, aka, BeOS 5 Personal Edition was release on the 28th of March. The "Personal Edition" is made up of an compressed disk image that "uncompresses" to 500meg (only around 200 is used).
The Personal Edition only works in conjuction with another OS (however this can be worked around, see http://skippy.dhs.org [sorry if you get
This "BeOS for Linux" is the same OS that was released for Windows on the 28th. It DOES NOT have Linux, or Windows, running behind it. It is a full release of BeOS R5, only lacking a few commercial apps (just like some Linux distros). A belive the Linux "version" boots off a floppy just as the NT/2k version does.
If anyone wants any non-my-video/sound/net/isdn/winmodem-doesn't-work
*This is a repeat post. Bring back CmdrTaco and Hemos, their posts are usually OK...
*This post powered by NetPositive on BeOS R5*