I was about to mention how your tone and your, ah, overenthusiasm might have been part of it. But I took a look at your user profile, and it looks like your only purpose here is to shill for your pet quack. FOAD, nobody owes you a civil reply.
If it weren't for someone posting about this in a public forum (in my case, it was on the Sorehands mailing list), I might not have found a cure. Even that person got flamed. I expect to be flamed. It's sad that I got modded down, but I expect it. People are of course going to be against an idea that seems outrageous, especially on Slashdot, where you have a lot of skeptics. But that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying, and the fact that it worked for me to solve my chronic pain problem, as well as many others (even other people on Slashdot).
Maybe I will get a few people who tell me to "fuck off and die" as you have just done. But maybe some more open-minded people will read what I suggested and possibly find some kind of solution to their own problems.
Yes, I created *this* Slashdot account only for discussing this particular topic. But I'm just your average Slashdotter the rest of the time.
Do you have or have had any chronic pain conditions? If so, have they lasted for over a year without you finding a solution? Can you honestly say you wouldn't be open to reading what I suggested if you were in that situation?
Clearly if you did, you wouldn't be fucking doing it.
Helping people learn about a possible way to cure a painful condition is more important the karma I will lose from -1 Redundants. It's actually kinda sad that I'm getting modded down.
Sarno looks pretty dubious, but at least not in the outright new-age woo-woo kind of way. Has any of his work actually been clinically studied?
Yeah, I think the fact that he provides scientific ideas and not vague new-agey ideas is why it worked for me. Granted, his ideas are very Freudian, and a lot of people shy away from that, but maybe Freudian had some ideas that were right.
Here is what the wiki page says about him:
John E. Sarno, MD, (1923-) is Professor of Clinical Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine, and attending physician at the Howard A. Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University Medical Center. He graduated from The Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 1950. In 1965 he became the Director of the Outpatient Department at the Rusk Institute. He is also the originator of the controversial psychosomatic condition, tension myositis syndrome, which has not received serious study from mainstream medicine.
I don't know about whether it has been clinically studied or not. There are several other doctors that have learned from him and practice the same techniques. I wish they would get more attention from the mainstream.
I hate to keep copying/pasting the same thing here, but this might actually help someone. Check out the following as it may help you:
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc (Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a.doc.
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 5 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can, its really the best source for an explanation of this.
Before you go for surgery, check out the following just in case it works for you:
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc (Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a.doc.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can.
The following might explain what RSI really is (which is different than CTS, which I don't think is caused by computer use or repetitive strain at all). I am pretty much copying and pasting what I wrote the last time there was a Harvard research article about this subject:
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc (Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a.doc.
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 3 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can.
I now firmly believe that "RSI" is caused by psychological reasons (though it does exhibit actual physical symptoms). I know that is hard to grasp, and long-time sufferers will disagree with me, but read the document I linked to and some of Dr. John E. Sarno's writings if you are interested.
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc (Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 3 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Alternative view on what "RSI" is
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Slacker or Sick
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Please read this document to read an alternative view of what "RSI" is. It makes a lot more sense then anything else. It's the only thing that was able to completely cure me when I had what I thought was "RSI".
I've experienced it from the other side: bizarre perceived symptoms that turned out to have a real cause. Random aches and pains, indigestion and cramping, mood changes, general feeling of illness, and so forth. (Naturally resulting in an impressive medical diagnostic work-up.) The doctors nearly had me convinced it was somatization, but luckily I started seeing flashing lights and an ophthalmologist helped me figure out it was migraine with minimal headache.
Incidentally, Dr. John Sarno (of the book I mentioned) lists migraines as among one of the symptoms that can be cured using the approach he describes. In fact, IIRC, he even experienced migraines himself and cured them using the technique. The approach in a nutshell is to find the psychological causes. You basically have to dig up supressed/repressed emotions. Though for my case, just knowing that my problems had a psychologically cause was enough for me to get better (I never went to see a psychologist or anything like that).
The tricky part is that the physical symptoms are real, they not just perceived. For example, in the case of wrist pain, the brain has enough control over the body to cause mild oxygen deprivation to the wrist, resulting in wrist pain.
There's more to it (many pieces to the puzzle), and that document I link to has a better explanation (though more geared towards wrist pain).
I've actually been able to link all kinds of problems I've had in the past to psychological reasons. I've had wrist, elbow, pain, neck, knee pain, TMJ (jaw clenching), allergies, stomach problems. All of that has disappeared after I addressed the psychological causes.
As someone who has experienced and recovered from a psychosomatic disorder (in my case what I thought was "repetitive strain injury"), I tend to agree that sometimes its better that patient doesn't know about physical evidence. The mind is clever enough to create painful symptoms where it knows there are structural abnormalities, even though those structural abnormalities don't cause pain. Read "The Mindbody Prescription" by John Sarno if you're interested in what I'm talking about here (or Google "sarno tms" or check out this document)
In this case, I don't really know much about the discovery, so maybe it doesn't apply, but this is what worries me: ok, so anxiety disorders can be detected in the bloodstream. But what is the cause? It can still be something that is purely psychological and something that could potentially be fixed through psychological approaches. Maybe the evidence in the bloodstream is the result of anxiety disorders, but the anxiety disorder itself is still psychological. The mind is capable of making changes to the body in pretty incredible ways (I've experienced this first hand), this isn't really too surprising.
What worries me about this is that this will give people the concept that there is something actually physically/chemically wrong with them that they were born with that they can't fix. They will start to think it is a chronic problem that won't go away, and they just have to live with it, which just leads to using medicine to alleviate the symptoms, rather that going after cause. Maybe it actually is something physically/chemically wrong (an idea I'm very skeptical about after my own experiences), but I'd imagine there is significant number of people who have experienced anxiety who don't have any such physically/chemically problems.
Interesting discovery nonetheless, but interpretting what it actually means is probably more interesting.
No, there is actually some scarring on my tendons.
Its a little hard for that to be psychosomatic.
Psychosomatic means physical symptoms brought on by psychological reasons. The physical symptoms are real. The article I linked to (or maybe the book it discusses, I can't remember) explains that oxygen depravation occurs in the areas involved causing a physical condition which causes pain. This condition is supposedly relatively harmless, and given a chance to heal, it heals quickly and immediately. I'd suggest reading the article (and the book "Mindbody Prescription") for a better explanation, I'm not that great at explaining it.
I'm not familiar as to how tendons can be scarred from overuse or poor technique. How was it determined that there was scarring involved?
I suppose on the extreme end of things, a heart attack can be considered psychosomatic (but not necessarilly). And there is even some evidence of this with cancer. So a psychosomatic problem may be just as serious as anything else.
Re:Only going to work if it became standard
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Advocating Dvorak
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· Score: 1
Psychosomatic my foot. Dude you don't worry about it because you've got your hands over your ears and are yelling "la la la la la" at the top of your lungs. If the pain is real chances are its not just in your head.
Psychosomatic does not mean "in your head", it means truly physical symptoms that are caused by psychological reasons. The idea is that oxygen deprevation occurs to those areas is caused by psychological reasons. Read the article for a better understanding, I am not as good at explaining it.
Saying RSI is psychosomatic is somewhat unhelpful. After 8 years of pain and finally recovering using the TMS approach, I believe you are technically correct.
You're right.. I try not explain too much myself, and hope that people will go and read the article I linked to since I'm not that great at explaining it myself. Most people don't understand that "psychosomatic" means physical symptoms caused by psychological reasons. The physical symptoms are real, supposedly caused by oxygen depravation to those areas, but its triggered by psychological reasons. The mind is really tricky, it even knows about physical conditions that you yourself are not aware of and will use that to its advantage.
Anyway, thanks for the comments and the link. Cool that Nate McNamara was involved, he was actually the one I learned about this from (while reading the Sorehands mailing list).
You may want to read this article as well as some of my previous posts such as this one. Also do a Google search for "sarno tms". I have had experiences myself (1.5 of not being able to work due to pain), and I also play instruments (guitar and bass). The end result was that I discovered my pain was psychosomatic and not purely physical, and I was completely cured in a few weeks simply by addressing psychological issues (one of which was being freaked out by not being able to use my hands without pain, its kind of a snowball effect).
As for the idea of learning bad habbits, I do agree on that. I have been learning drums the last two years, and I am doing it on my own, and I have picked up quite a few bad habits that other drummers point out. But really those only affect my technique. With guitar, I had lessons from the beginning and that really helped my technique. But with drums, although I play good enough to be able jam with other people, I'll probably never be a good drummer unless I start taking some lessons sooner rather than later. And at this point I may not have the patience to go back and correct these things.
Re:Only going to work if it became standard
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Advocating Dvorak
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Re:Only going to work if it became standard
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Advocating Dvorak
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I'm a 33-year old professional programmer with 15 years professional experience and now type over 130 WPM. I've never had a single problem with wrist or hand pain until about 3 months ago. I started having all kinds of numbness in my hand and pain in my wrist. Needless to say, I freaked out. The problem went from nothing to seriously impeding me in a matter of days.
Before you freak out again, please read this article. Do a search for "sarno tms". Trust me, I've been there (1.5 years of not being able to work), and I now I simply don't worry about it because I understand it was a psychosomatic problem and not a purely physical one. You can also go back and read my posts too, like this one.
Considering I never believed that carpal tunnel syndrome or other wrist problems existed previously
"It could be the difference between working in your garden at 70 or wearing wrist braces at 40."
Saying things like this is just creating unnecessary fear. After having my own experience (1.5 years of not being able to work due to the pain which I thought was "RSI"), I discovered that RSI is basically a psychosomatic disorder that can be cured by addressing psychological issues. Read this summary for more info. You can also do a search with the terms "sarno" and "tms" and you should find other pages including other peoples' experiences. If you are in pain right now, its very important you take a look at these ideas, but also important if you aren't in pain because it may save you from worrying about it.
It only took me a few weeks to fully recover and now I use my hands all day long. I work as a software developer, play guitar, bass, and drums; and I have had no pain in the last 2 years thanks to learning it was a psychosomatic disorder. I don't do anything special ergonomically. I don't use dvorak or any special keyboards, I don't worry about taking breaks, I sit in awkward positions sometimes which some people might call "bad posture", I just don't worry at all (that is the most important part).
Are you crazy? Using your fingers in a suboptimal manner for 8+ hours a day 5-7 days a week for years causing damage and pain is actually due to "unacceptable emotions"?
I got to where I couldn't pick up my luggage. Solution: Kinesis keyboard, not reading a book about my attitude.
No I am not crazy. I have been pain free for 2.5 years. I work as a software developer, I code at home for fun, play guitar and bass and drums, and use my hands all day long like a normal human being. There are days I am using my hands continuously except for maybe eating and sleeping. I don't even worry about hurting my hands from overuse, not even for a second.
I got to where I couldn't pick up my luggage. Solution: Kinesis keyboard, not reading a book about my attitude.
For me, it got to where I could not work, painful to drive, etc. I spent 1.5 years like this. I even tried the Kinesis and it did not help (nice keyboard, but if it works, its just a placebo). I read the book I mentioned, and within a month I was completely back to normal. Now I use a standard keyboard and just some basic ergonomics (keyboard tray) only for comfort and speed, not for health.
Tough idea to swallow, I know, just read the summary again with an open mind. Or not, its your call. Losing the fear of "RSI" is really a wonderful thing. If you're afraid to use a keyboard other than your Kinesis, you may still benefit from these ideas even if you truly are pain free now. Or maybe you have other problems like back pain which could be solved.
Why am I here promoting some author (you can go to the library if you don't want to buy the book, I'm not here to make him money)? Because I really think his ideas can help people. This really needs to be a mainstream idea.
in the linked flyer suggest to me the phrase "Money-spinning quack".
I'm sorry you think that. There are a lot of quacks out there and this isn't one of them. Check the library for a copy, you don't have to give him money. Or at least read the stuff online. I wish he would open-sourced his book (and charge much less for the video), it would be much easier to tell people about this stuff without so much skepticism.
In any case, it worked for me, but I guess I don't have much credibility as a Slashdot user created for trying to bring awareness to this idea.
But hey, at the end of the day, its your call whether you want to learn about this or not.
One of the signs of quackery is the claim that you can cure dozens of diseases with your 'discovery'. Sarno fits the bill.
This is one of those rare cases where it isn't quackery. I consider chiropracters, acupuncture, massage therapy (when it claims to solve health problems), and other "alternative medicine" techniques to be quackery. And I actually see why after reading Sarno's work. Those "alternative medicine" techniques basically capitalize on the fact that so many physical problems have a phsychological root cause. If the patient thinks it works, the symptoms may temporarilly disappear after treatment, only to reappear or appear in a different form. Religious healings are the same concept.
You can write off these ideas as quackery, or you can read up on it (you'll probably find the books in the library) and it might just make sense to you. Your call. Some people have read about it and said they already knew about those concepts and they are nothing new, so Sarno isn't the only source (just the only good source that I know of to get a full understanding).
Apparently, it's all in your head, and as soon as you clear out the negative emotions, you're all set.
I probably should have said "its physical, but the root cause is physchological". My bad. But don't listen to me, just read the summary I linked to for a better idea.
I didn't add the emphasis to the document; it was already present. The parent poster is at best well-meaning but poorly informed; at worst an astroturfing shill. Note that his user name ("nilesh tms") even includes the acronym for Sarno's proposed disease: "Tension Myositis Syndrome". His only posts on Slashdot have been to promote Sarno's work.
No astroturfing here. True, I did create this account only to post about Sarno's work and talk about "TMS" because there are enough RSI-related stories on here that it needs to be done. These ideas simply don't get enough attention. I suffered for 1.5 years where I was in too much pain to work, and only that book was able to help me. Why should other people suffer for no reason? That is why I am here posting about it, since the information doesn't get out otherwise.
If you think I'm poorly informed, you are discounting my experience and the huge amount of research I have done for 1.5 years. I have read as much RSI-related information out there that I could find, I was even on the Sorehands mailing list and read about many people's experience. After all that, this was the only thing that made any sense. Two and a half years later, I am still pain free, and it only really took me about month to fully get back to normal after reading the book.
In the case you think I'm trying to sell books for Sarno, I wish he gave his book away for free, but that isn't the case. However, the public library system in my town has about 8 copies last time I checked, and most of them checked in. Check your public library if paying someone money is problem. For me, it was the best $15 I ever spent. His videos are overpriced though ($90 and they are only VHS), and I haven't bought them even though I kinda want to see them.
There may be other people who have the same ideas as Sarno, but he wrote about it very effectively and is the only one I know of who really expresses it correctly (but I haven't read everything out there).
I expect to get flamed on here, but that's ok. It's a tough idea to swallow and only a few will get it.
Misinformation on the internet can be very dangerous. Things like the Typing Injury FAQ are probably more harmful than good. RSI tends to be more of a psychosomatic issue. Sites like the Typing Injury FAQ reinforce the false idea that it is physical problem.
I say this both from experiencing it for myself and years of research into "RSI" (while I had the symptoms of). The only thing that ever made sense and was able to cure me was John E. Sarno's book "Mindbody Prescription." Do a Google search for "sarno tms" for more info (though the link above on the Harvard site is the best starting point to understand what he is talking about).
Take random health information on the internet with a grain of salt, especially since it can cause you to exhibit psychosomatic problems if you are prone to it (which more people are than you would think).
I know this is a controversial idea, but please at least read all of the document I linked to and give it a chance.
Re:anything based on "I heard stories" is suspicio
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That's what makes "faith healing" or "alternative healing" seem to work. At least 80% of their patients would have healed anyway.
To truly understand why "faith healing" and "alternative healing" and other placebos seem to work (though often times, only temporarilly), you have to understand that most of these symptoms that are healed by such things are psychosomatic in nature. The true cause of the symptoms is basically psychological (not saying that the actual symptoms aren't physical, though). For starters read this document and see my other post. Sure, you may say this is just another "alternative healing" but this is the only one I've found that makes sense if you take the time to read up on it. It all kind fits together once you understand it.
Slashdot Mirror
I was about to mention how your tone and your, ah, overenthusiasm might have been part of it. But I took a look at your user profile, and it looks like your only purpose here is to shill for your pet quack. FOAD, nobody owes you a civil reply.
If it weren't for someone posting about this in a public forum (in my case, it was on the Sorehands mailing list), I might not have found a cure. Even that person got flamed. I expect to be flamed. It's sad that I got modded down, but I expect it. People are of course going to be against an idea that seems outrageous, especially on Slashdot, where you have a lot of skeptics. But that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying, and the fact that it worked for me to solve my chronic pain problem, as well as many others (even other people on Slashdot).
Maybe I will get a few people who tell me to "fuck off and die" as you have just done. But maybe some more open-minded people will read what I suggested and possibly find some kind of solution to their own problems.
Yes, I created *this* Slashdot account only for discussing this particular topic. But I'm just your average Slashdotter the rest of the time.
Do you have or have had any chronic pain conditions? If so, have they lasted for over a year without you finding a solution? Can you honestly say you wouldn't be open to reading what I suggested if you were in that situation?
Clearly if you did, you wouldn't be fucking doing it.
Helping people learn about a possible way to cure a painful condition is more important the karma I will lose from -1 Redundants. It's actually kinda sad that I'm getting modded down.
Sarno looks pretty dubious, but at least not in the outright new-age woo-woo kind of way. Has any of his work actually been clinically studied?
Yeah, I think the fact that he provides scientific ideas and not vague new-agey ideas is why it worked for me. Granted, his ideas are very Freudian, and a lot of people shy away from that, but maybe Freudian had some ideas that were right.
Here is what the wiki page says about him:
John E. Sarno, MD, (1923-) is Professor of Clinical Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University School of Medicine, and attending physician at the Howard A. Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine, New York University Medical Center. He graduated from The Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 1950. In 1965 he became the Director of the Outpatient Department at the Rusk Institute. He is also the originator of the controversial psychosomatic condition, tension myositis syndrome, which has not received serious study from mainstream medicine.
I don't know about whether it has been clinically studied or not. There are several other doctors that have learned from him and practice the same techniques. I wish they would get more attention from the mainstream.
Read my last comment.
I hate to keep copying/pasting the same thing here, but this might actually help someone. Check out the following as it may help you:
.doc.
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 5 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can, its really the best source for an explanation of this.
Before you go for surgery, check out the following just in case it works for you:
.doc.
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can.
The following might explain what RSI really is (which is different than CTS, which I don't think is caused by computer use or repetitive strain at all). I am pretty much copying and pasting what I wrote the last time there was a Harvard research article about this subject:
.doc.
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 3 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Read the book "The Mindbody Prescription" by John E. Sarno if you can.
Here is a doc that describes how I cured my "RSI":
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
or Google view as HTML
Sounds crazy, but actually makes sense once you read and understand it.
Google for "sarno tms" for more info...
I cured my RSI using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
or Google view as HTML
I now firmly believe that "RSI" is caused by psychological reasons (though it does exhibit actual physical symptoms). I know that is hard to grasp, and long-time sufferers will disagree with me, but read the document I linked to and some of Dr. John E. Sarno's writings if you are interested.
I cured what I thought was "RSI" using this "mindbody" approach:
.doc.
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
(Coincidental that Harvard is hosting this document, maybe the researchers should look at it themselves)
Here is the Google cache for those who don't want to open a
I suffered for 1.5 years (where I didn't work because I didn't think I could) before I found that my cure was a completely psychological approach. From my research of CTS (as well as what my doctor told me), it is completely unrelated to typing. And from my experience with "RSI" and understanding what it actually was, I no longer believe you can actually hurt yourself from typing too much.
I now type sometimes all day long without taking many breaks. I play guitar, bass, and drums. I don't worry about posture at all. Ergonomics are only a way for me to get comfortable, not to avoid injury. I have no pain at all, and don't worry about ever having "RSI" again. It's been 3 years since I cured myself.
Please read up on the approach I'm talking about here before you flame me. It actually makes sense once you put all the pieces together. You can also search for "sarno tms" to find more info.
Please read this document to read an alternative view of what "RSI" is. It makes a lot more sense then anything else. It's the only thing that was able to completely cure me when I had what I thought was "RSI".
I've experienced it from the other side: bizarre perceived symptoms that turned out to have a real cause. Random aches and pains, indigestion and cramping, mood changes, general feeling of illness, and so forth. (Naturally resulting in an impressive medical diagnostic work-up.) The doctors nearly had me convinced it was somatization, but luckily I started seeing flashing lights and an ophthalmologist helped me figure out it was migraine with minimal headache.
Incidentally, Dr. John Sarno (of the book I mentioned) lists migraines as among one of the symptoms that can be cured using the approach he describes. In fact, IIRC, he even experienced migraines himself and cured them using the technique. The approach in a nutshell is to find the psychological causes. You basically have to dig up supressed/repressed emotions. Though for my case, just knowing that my problems had a psychologically cause was enough for me to get better (I never went to see a psychologist or anything like that).
The tricky part is that the physical symptoms are real, they not just perceived. For example, in the case of wrist pain, the brain has enough control over the body to cause mild oxygen deprivation to the wrist, resulting in wrist pain.
There's more to it (many pieces to the puzzle), and that document I link to has a better explanation (though more geared towards wrist pain).
I've actually been able to link all kinds of problems I've had in the past to psychological reasons. I've had wrist, elbow, pain, neck, knee pain, TMJ (jaw clenching), allergies, stomach problems. All of that has disappeared after I addressed the psychological causes.
As someone who has experienced and recovered from a psychosomatic disorder (in my case what I thought was "repetitive strain injury"), I tend to agree that sometimes its better that patient doesn't know about physical evidence. The mind is clever enough to create painful symptoms where it knows there are structural abnormalities, even though those structural abnormalities don't cause pain. Read "The Mindbody Prescription" by John Sarno if you're interested in what I'm talking about here (or Google "sarno tms" or check out this document)
In this case, I don't really know much about the discovery, so maybe it doesn't apply, but this is what worries me: ok, so anxiety disorders can be detected in the bloodstream. But what is the cause? It can still be something that is purely psychological and something that could potentially be fixed through psychological approaches. Maybe the evidence in the bloodstream is the result of anxiety disorders, but the anxiety disorder itself is still psychological. The mind is capable of making changes to the body in pretty incredible ways (I've experienced this first hand), this isn't really too surprising.
What worries me about this is that this will give people the concept that there is something actually physically/chemically wrong with them that they were born with that they can't fix. They will start to think it is a chronic problem that won't go away, and they just have to live with it, which just leads to using medicine to alleviate the symptoms, rather that going after cause. Maybe it actually is something physically/chemically wrong (an idea I'm very skeptical about after my own experiences), but I'd imagine there is significant number of people who have experienced anxiety who don't have any such physically/chemically problems.
Interesting discovery nonetheless, but interpretting what it actually means is probably more interesting.
No, there is actually some scarring on my tendons.
Its a little hard for that to be psychosomatic.
Psychosomatic means physical symptoms brought on by psychological reasons. The physical symptoms are real. The article I linked to (or maybe the book it discusses, I can't remember) explains that oxygen depravation occurs in the areas involved causing a physical condition which causes pain. This condition is supposedly relatively harmless, and given a chance to heal, it heals quickly and immediately. I'd suggest reading the article (and the book "Mindbody Prescription") for a better explanation, I'm not that great at explaining it.
I'm not familiar as to how tendons can be scarred from overuse or poor technique. How was it determined that there was scarring involved?
I suppose on the extreme end of things, a heart attack can be considered psychosomatic (but not necessarilly). And there is even some evidence of this with cancer. So a psychosomatic problem may be just as serious as anything else.
Psychosomatic my foot. Dude you don't worry about it because you've got your hands over your ears and are yelling "la la la la la" at the top of your lungs. If the pain is real chances are its not just in your head.
Psychosomatic does not mean "in your head", it means truly physical symptoms that are caused by psychological reasons. The idea is that oxygen deprevation occurs to those areas is caused by psychological reasons. Read the article for a better understanding, I am not as good at explaining it.
Saying RSI is psychosomatic is somewhat unhelpful. After 8 years of pain and finally recovering using the TMS approach, I believe you are technically correct.
You're right.. I try not explain too much myself, and hope that people will go and read the article I linked to since I'm not that great at explaining it myself. Most people don't understand that "psychosomatic" means physical symptoms caused by psychological reasons. The physical symptoms are real, supposedly caused by oxygen depravation to those areas, but its triggered by psychological reasons. The mind is really tricky, it even knows about physical conditions that you yourself are not aware of and will use that to its advantage.
Anyway, thanks for the comments and the link. Cool that Nate McNamara was involved, he was actually the one I learned about this from (while reading the Sorehands mailing list).
I now have carpel tunnel in my right hand.
You may want to read this article as well as some of my previous posts such as this one. Also do a Google search for "sarno tms". I have had experiences myself (1.5 of not being able to work due to pain), and I also play instruments (guitar and bass). The end result was that I discovered my pain was psychosomatic and not purely physical, and I was completely cured in a few weeks simply by addressing psychological issues (one of which was being freaked out by not being able to use my hands without pain, its kind of a snowball effect).
As for the idea of learning bad habbits, I do agree on that. I have been learning drums the last two years, and I am doing it on my own, and I have picked up quite a few bad habits that other drummers point out. But really those only affect my technique. With guitar, I had lessons from the beginning and that really helped my technique. But with drums, although I play good enough to be able jam with other people, I'll probably never be a good drummer unless I start taking some lessons sooner rather than later. And at this point I may not have the patience to go back and correct these things.
please read my post in this thread and also this article
I'm a 33-year old professional programmer with 15 years professional experience and now type over 130 WPM. I've never had a single problem with wrist or hand pain until about 3 months ago. I started having all kinds of numbness in my hand and pain in my wrist. Needless to say, I freaked out. The problem went from nothing to seriously impeding me in a matter of days.
Before you freak out again, please read this article. Do a search for "sarno tms". Trust me, I've been there (1.5 years of not being able to work), and I now I simply don't worry about it because I understand it was a psychosomatic problem and not a purely physical one. You can also go back and read my posts too, like this one.
Considering I never believed that carpal tunnel syndrome or other wrist problems existed previously
You may still be right about this.
"It could be the difference between working in your garden at 70 or wearing wrist braces at 40."
Saying things like this is just creating unnecessary fear. After having my own experience (1.5 years of not being able to work due to the pain which I thought was "RSI"), I discovered that RSI is basically a psychosomatic disorder that can be cured by addressing psychological issues. Read this summary for more info. You can also do a search with the terms "sarno" and "tms" and you should find other pages including other peoples' experiences. If you are in pain right now, its very important you take a look at these ideas, but also important if you aren't in pain because it may save you from worrying about it.
It only took me a few weeks to fully recover and now I use my hands all day long. I work as a software developer, play guitar, bass, and drums; and I have had no pain in the last 2 years thanks to learning it was a psychosomatic disorder. I don't do anything special ergonomically. I don't use dvorak or any special keyboards, I don't worry about taking breaks, I sit in awkward positions sometimes which some people might call "bad posture", I just don't worry at all (that is the most important part).
Are you crazy? Using your fingers in a suboptimal manner for 8+ hours a day 5-7 days a week for years causing damage and pain is actually due to "unacceptable emotions"?
I got to where I couldn't pick up my luggage. Solution: Kinesis keyboard, not reading a book about my attitude.
No I am not crazy. I have been pain free for 2.5 years. I work as a software developer, I code at home for fun, play guitar and bass and drums, and use my hands all day long like a normal human being. There are days I am using my hands continuously except for maybe eating and sleeping. I don't even worry about hurting my hands from overuse, not even for a second.
I got to where I couldn't pick up my luggage. Solution: Kinesis keyboard, not reading a book about my attitude.
For me, it got to where I could not work, painful to drive, etc. I spent 1.5 years like this. I even tried the Kinesis and it did not help (nice keyboard, but if it works, its just a placebo). I read the book I mentioned, and within a month I was completely back to normal. Now I use a standard keyboard and just some basic ergonomics (keyboard tray) only for comfort and speed, not for health.
Tough idea to swallow, I know, just read the summary again with an open mind. Or not, its your call. Losing the fear of "RSI" is really a wonderful thing. If you're afraid to use a keyboard other than your Kinesis, you may still benefit from these ideas even if you truly are pain free now. Or maybe you have other problems like back pain which could be solved.
Why am I here promoting some author (you can go to the library if you don't want to buy the book, I'm not here to make him money)? Because I really think his ideas can help people. This really needs to be a mainstream idea.
in the linked flyer suggest to me the phrase
"Money-spinning quack".
I'm sorry you think that. There are a lot of quacks out there and this isn't one of them. Check the library for a copy, you don't have to give him money. Or at least read the stuff online. I wish he would open-sourced his book (and charge much less for the video), it would be much easier to tell people about this stuff without so much skepticism.
In any case, it worked for me, but I guess I don't have much credibility as a Slashdot user created for trying to bring awareness to this idea.
But hey, at the end of the day, its your call whether you want to learn about this or not.
One of the signs of quackery is the claim that you can cure dozens of diseases with your 'discovery'. Sarno fits the bill.
This is one of those rare cases where it isn't quackery. I consider chiropracters, acupuncture, massage therapy (when it claims to solve health problems), and other "alternative medicine" techniques to be quackery. And I actually see why after reading Sarno's work. Those "alternative medicine" techniques basically capitalize on the fact that so many physical problems have a phsychological root cause. If the patient thinks it works, the symptoms may temporarilly disappear after treatment, only to reappear or appear in a different form. Religious healings are the same concept.
You can write off these ideas as quackery, or you can read up on it (you'll probably find the books in the library) and it might just make sense to you. Your call. Some people have read about it and said they already knew about those concepts and they are nothing new, so Sarno isn't the only source (just the only good source that I know of to get a full understanding).
Apparently, it's all in your head, and as soon as you clear out the negative emotions, you're all set.
I probably should have said "its physical, but the root cause is physchological". My bad. But don't listen to me, just read the summary I linked to for a better idea.
I didn't add the emphasis to the document; it was already present. The parent poster is at best well-meaning but poorly informed; at worst an astroturfing shill. Note that his user name ("nilesh tms") even includes the acronym for Sarno's proposed disease: "Tension Myositis Syndrome". His only posts on Slashdot have been to promote Sarno's work.
No astroturfing here. True, I did create this account only to post about Sarno's work and talk about "TMS" because there are enough RSI-related stories on here that it needs to be done. These ideas simply don't get enough attention. I suffered for 1.5 years where I was in too much pain to work, and only that book was able to help me. Why should other people suffer for no reason? That is why I am here posting about it, since the information doesn't get out otherwise.
If you think I'm poorly informed, you are discounting my experience and the huge amount of research I have done for 1.5 years. I have read as much RSI-related information out there that I could find, I was even on the Sorehands mailing list and read about many people's experience. After all that, this was the only thing that made any sense. Two and a half years later, I am still pain free, and it only really took me about month to fully get back to normal after reading the book.
In the case you think I'm trying to sell books for Sarno, I wish he gave his book away for free, but that isn't the case. However, the public library system in my town has about 8 copies last time I checked, and most of them checked in. Check your public library if paying someone money is problem. For me, it was the best $15 I ever spent. His videos are overpriced though ($90 and they are only VHS), and I haven't bought them even though I kinda want to see them.
There may be other people who have the same ideas as Sarno, but he wrote about it very effectively and is the only one I know of who really expresses it correctly (but I haven't read everything out there).
I expect to get flamed on here, but that's ok. It's a tough idea to swallow and only a few will get it.
Misinformation on the internet can be very dangerous. Things like the Typing Injury FAQ are probably more harmful than good. RSI tends to be more of a psychosomatic issue. Sites like the Typing Injury FAQ reinforce the false idea that it is physical problem.
I say this both from experiencing it for myself and years of research into "RSI" (while I had the symptoms of). The only thing that ever made sense and was able to cure me was John E. Sarno's book "Mindbody Prescription." Do a Google search for "sarno tms" for more info (though the link above on the Harvard site is the best starting point to understand what he is talking about).
Take random health information on the internet with a grain of salt, especially since it can cause you to exhibit psychosomatic problems if you are prone to it (which more people are than you would think).
I know this is a controversial idea, but please at least read all of the document I linked to and give it a chance.
That's what makes "faith healing" or "alternative healing" seem to work. At least 80% of their patients would have healed anyway.
To truly understand why "faith healing" and "alternative healing" and other placebos seem to work (though often times, only temporarilly), you have to understand that most of these symptoms that are healed by such things are psychosomatic in nature. The true cause of the symptoms is basically psychological (not saying that the actual symptoms aren't physical, though). For starters read this document and see my other post. Sure, you may say this is just another "alternative healing" but this is the only one I've found that makes sense if you take the time to read up on it. It all kind fits together once you understand it.