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Google Staff MD on Carpal Tunnel & RSI
bariswheel writes "Every older and some younger Slashdotters have been subject to that tingling feeling in your wrist after countless hours of hacking, cracking, or playing CS. This Google Blog, posted by the Staff MD addresses this serious symptom that could potentially lead to "compression of the nerve which can cause numbness or tingling and eventually weakness if the nerve is damaged severely." Didn't think hard work would hurt anybody right?"
I use my hands/wrist/forearms for a lot of things. I play bass, program for a living, play piano & enjoy hours of computer games. On top of that, I spent my youth working on a farm doing repetitive chores like picking up rocks or bails of hay.
I've always been concerned about the state of my wrists especially since they're so vital to my livelihood. But what I've found is that the only time I've experienced fatigue or pain in them is when I haven't used them to intensively work out. I now visit the gym twice a week and I believe that doing proper exercises builds strength and endurance in them to overcome what effects poor posture at work might have on them.
I'm not in any way a doctor but it's been my experience that when I was in college with no time to work out (and no job to force me to use them), I experienced discomfort from programming 12+ hours at the end of semesters. Now, I never even notice a 12+ crunch between work and school.
I also have a pair of hand grips at both my office and home where if I'm watching television or waiting for a compile to complete, I'll put in a few repetitions. I just see this as "flossing your teeth" for programmers. It's not something you have to do but you should do it because your hands really are worth a lot to you.
I don't take this issue lightly after I saw my friend go through it at the young age of 22. He had to wear a sort of headband thing with a reflective dot on it to move his mouse around on his machine. Unbelievably, he even became quite good at play Star Wars Galaxies online with it on.
My work here is dung.
I am not a doctor, but what I do is have various input devices, wheel mouse, regular mouse, split keyboard, regular keyboard and every couple of months change my main computer's devices. I don't know if this will actually help but the change feels nice.
keyboard pounding == hard work. ya. uh huh.
.max
Install a few brick paver driveways and get back to me.
who is himself a button pushing geek.
JWZ has some good information on RSI
I don't get it ... what's a mouse? Have you ever heard of Lynx?
is getting punched in the back of the head a lot.
i work at a very violent workplace, and while its fun to assault others (a great stress reliever), it does suck when you're debugging something and out of nowhere WHAM you take one in the dome.
Then I bought a Microsoft Natural Keyboard. I don't much like MS software, but their hardware is first-rate. I can (and do) sit in front of my computer and write code for hours on end, with no problems. I even bring on with me on contract jobs.
I have a couple of extra, just in case this one croaks. I haven't noticed the natural keyboard in stores lately.
No matter where you go... there you are.
are never too sore for quips.
OMFG!!!! I've been hearing about this Carpel Tunnel Stuff for 20 years and I always thought it was BS and all the tips I kept hearing I ignored. But now that GOOGLE has weighed in, I better look into this.
Some alternative methods of inputting into a computer, from someone with severe RSI issues; foot pedals, foot mice(!), voice recognition are mentioned: Alternative Input Methods
In my youth, I never heard of anybody complaining about this with old mechanical typewriters. I'm beginning to agree with this post about just not being in good keyboard shape.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
I was starting to get the tingling in the nerves of my right hand recently at 25 - and I've spent nearly every day, at least 12 hours, on the keyboard since highschool. Sometimes I'll go a few months, solid, in front of the screen 16/7. At first I thought it was just age and wear and tear on my wrists, but then I noticed something - the new high-back executive chair I bought sat lower, at its maximum height, than my previous chair.
So I bought a new chair that sat higher with higher armrests, and haven't had even a whisper of a problem since. I'm convinced the problem is largely one of ergonomics and posture.
--Ryvar
Didn't think hard work would hurt anybody right?
/. post is a painful in this life, but the sacrifice is worth the all good karma that has been spread.
Each
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
"Every older and some younger Slashdotters have been subject to that tingling feeling in your wrist after countless hours of hacking, cracking, or playing CS
/obvious.
Or surfing porn
... what did you expect, something profound?
Sitting hours and hours in front of the computer and staring on the screen (i.e., hardening your eye muscles and causing strain on the retina) supports retinal detatchment. The really big down is that retinal detachment causes you to go blind. There's not a lot of preventative measures you can do unless making brakes and resting your eyes.
I think it's more serious than RSI or CTS, because you can still see and use a brain-computer interface in the 'near' future compared to a fully functional eye implant.
Wow. So there's an actual medical basis for what my Mama always told me. I wonder if it will also fall off, like she said?
Although Carpel Tunnel Syndrome makes the news the most, the most common hand problems that computer users experience is tendonitis. Tendonitis is painful, but it doesn't damage nerves.
What evidence there is points to the mouse as the source of computer-related hand problems, not the keyboard. I remember hearing a lot about people getting computer-related hand problems in the early 90's, around the time Windows 3.1 came out and the mouse became mainstream.
I tend to have hand trouble in the spring when I start riding my bike, and that demands a hand position different from anything I do all winter.
I've had times when my tendonitis was so bad that I thought I'd have to change careers, but I found that push-ups were an effective treatment for me. Push-ups are great because they are a functional exercise that works the whole upper body -- they build up the big muscles in your chest as well as the little muscles in your wrist. I love lifting weights, but you can do push-ups at home without any equipment or gym memberships.
Note that every motion you do involves a complete 'chain' that leads back to your center of gravity -- if you push a key on a computer, it's only an ounce or two of force, but it's ultimately backed up by your whole mass. Your big muscles help your little muscles do their work and vice versa...
Same here. Decades ago, there were legions of (mostly) women working in secretarial pools pounding out letters on manual typewriters all day long. Why is RSI a recent phenomenon?
Open the corporate firewall to allow pr0n, and the employees wrists will get enough of a workout to counteract the effects of RSI.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
and 'keyboard pounding' isn't hard work in the same sense
but i've never experienced the stress levels doing manual labor that I have with doing programming. that will certainly wear you out by the end of the day/week/month/year/decade.
"that tingling feeling in your wrist after countless hours of hacking, cracking"
/.
you forgot to add wacking after all this is
I cured my RSI using this "mindbody" approach:
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/handout.doc
or Google view as HTML
I now firmly believe that "RSI" is caused by psychological reasons (though it does exhibit actual physical symptoms). I know that is hard to grasp, and long-time sufferers will disagree with me, but read the document I linked to and some of Dr. John E. Sarno's writings if you are interested.
I have been programming software for over 10 years, and was avidly using a computer years before that, and I don't have CTS or any tingling sensation after 8, 9, 10+ hour days.
People that experience CTS because of typing seriously need to figure out what they are doing wrong, and they ARE doing something wrong.
People I know that have CTS tend to pound on the keyboard, they put so much tension and force in order to hit the keys with their fingers, there is no need to pound on the keyboard. Light quick presses of your fingers is enough to register the key press. If your keyboard forces you to pound on the keys, get a new keyboard. The moment even ONE of my keys because sticky or requires more force to press then normal, I toss it and get a new keyboard, period.
People that I know who also have CTS tend to try and type as quickly as possible. Their fingers are a flurry of activity for 2 - 5 minutes, and then they have to stop and rub their fingers and wrists because they are sore. I watch them tense up and basically spas out on the keyboard in short intervals. You will find greater productivity and no pain if you learn to type slower, aiming for long sessions of moderate speed typing rather then spazzing out on the keyboard for short stints.
Put it this way. You move your fingers and wrists in thousands of directions thousands of times a day in with normal activity. Your fingers, hands, and wrists are designed to handle it. Where you get problems is when you strain your tendons and force movement while in a strained position. This is where repetitive STRAIN syndrome occurs.
By relaxing your fingers, typing with a lighter touch, and slowing your typing speed, you can type for hours, days, weeks and years without pain or any CTS symptoms.
It work, believe me. With the MS natural keyboard and keeping the above statement in mind, I don't have sore wrists at the end of the day.
The bottom line is, your company doesn't force you to use the equipment you use. If they won't buy you a natural or other ergonomic keyboard, or a force you to use a keyboard that has sticky or hard to press keys, then buy your own keyboard. Take steps to ensure your work environment is safe. If you don't like your chair, or your desk, get it replaced. Remind any employer that a few hundred dollars to improve the ergonomics of your workstation, or even a few thousand to improve everyone in the office pales in comparison to the millions they will be sued for for not providing a safe working environment that causes you pain or forces you to have to stop working. NO employer should refuse to let you bring in your own keyboard, mouse, even chair, if they do, find other employment.
I tire of hearing about people getting CTS. They are simply doing it all wrong, but blaming everything else but themselves. If you are using a straight rectangular keyboard that isn't at the proper height, pounding on it with your fingers and strained wrists, and feel you need to type 100 wpm in order to be productive, then its your own damn fault!
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Because a typewriters forced you to take a rest, because force was needed. Also, your was manual.
Fight Spammers!
While do-it-yourself solutions (new keyboards/mice, home exercises, wrist splints, etc) are a great first step, if you are still hurting don't be afraid to go to your doctor. They can run tests (e.g. EMG, blood flow studies) that can narrow down the problem and can prescribe physical therapy to help you through exercises specifically for your problem.
As a long-time RSI sufferer, it is also worth mentioning that even though the symptoms may appear in your wrist/hands, the actual problem could be in your shoulder or upper back. Impingements on the nerves or blood vessels in those locations can lead to symptoms further down their path. Posture and sleeping positions can be big culprits here.
Personally, I used to sleep on my stomach with an arm above my head and under the pillow. Changing sleeping positions went a long way towards relieving my symptoms, which were rooted in my shoulder and neck. Physical therapy and posture changes took me the rest of the way.
Secondly, they didn't do it for very long - they usually packed in work when they got married in them thar' days.
Thirdly, they were properly trained.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
From TFA:
Shift your gaze from the computer screen to the distance. And don't forget to blink!
Does this really happen to people? I think (and really hope) that it never happens for me not to be blinking! Has any of you ever noticed that you haven't blinked for a long time?
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
Anyone have any idea what this is supposed to mean?
Or, alternatively, can you think of any really funny misinterpretations?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
i actually have a boredom related injury. i sit all day, resting my head on my left hand and my elbow on my desk. for the last couple of months, by the end of the day, i touch my elbow and cause the "funny bone" sensation. seriously, ennui elbow. i'm thinking of claiming worker's comp.
no i have not shot my gun in the air and gone 'Ahh!'
I can hyperextend my wrists to the point where a normal person's wrist snap. Im sure my extra flexible wrists will help prevent carpal tunnel syndrome. As for figuring out how I had freaky wrists? Trying to break wrists in the martial arts.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
If you type a lot, you've got to try using an ergonomic keyboard layout.
I used to go home from work with a feeling of numbness on the backs of my hands. This scared me enough to try the Dvorak layout. It worked for me; I'm not really any faster than I was with QWERTY, but I'm *way* more comfortable. I tried to design an even better keyboard layout via evolutionary algorithms, but couldn't; Dvorak got it right, at least for my pair of hands.
Give it a try; you'll thank me later. It's free, too.
"Skill shows through where genius wears thin." -Wittgenstein || Religion: uniting aviation and architecture.
I had the symptoms associated with carpal tunnel syndrom about an year ago. I had weeks of constant burning, tingling on the bottom of my wrist which was at one point unberable and forcing me to stop working or put my hand in a bowl of cold water just to make it feel a bit better.
First thing, I stopped supporting my wrist on the edge of the desk, that's REALLY bad and many do that (my brother also does it despite me constantly nagging him about it). Instead I dumped my old CRT and got a TFT, which allowed me to push the keyboard and mouse pad much further in the desk, at which point I could support my arm by putting my elbow on the desk and have my arms fully relaxed on the desk.
What really helped however was the Wacom tablet. I got a Graphire3 A5 (perfect size for both many graphical tasks and OS navigation).
The first two weeks it was disappointing: the hovering felt weird, the left click felt weird, and the right click felt outright impossible. I was about to give up, but I kept trying and gradually got used to it to the point it felt more natural than a mouse. Using a tablet is a lot better if you have that condition since you don't press your wrist against the desk, so even if you're not cured, it doesn't hurt as much to just work in that condition.
In the next few months of using the tablet the tingling went away and now I appear to be completely cured, no any pain whatsoever, I also don't experience this problem even if I start mousing from time to time (I keep the mouse even though I rarely use it).
Other benefits of a Wacom tablet are easy taking of handwritten notes, drafting, drawing, sketching or editing photos on your screen. For that of course you have to be used to it first (so if you try a new tablet don't expect to freely write on the screen from the first minute of using it).
I'm a web developer I do both coding and design and a Wacom tablet is a good replacement of a mouse as much as pointer navigation goes, so that's what I recommend if you have this problem.
I agree 100% about the benefits of wrist and forearm exercises. I started to actually get occasional stabs of pain when using my thumb to turn a faucet or doorknob. My wrists also started to get a constant dull soreness. This all went away completely after doing martial arts (wu shu/kung fu) for a few months (now many years). One of the things that helped the most were the Aikido wrist exercises we would do to get ready to practice wrist locks (Chin Na). Here is a good site about them: Aikido Wrist Exercises.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
So I don't have to install brick paver driveways.
View the link below to see a common ailment affecting masons worldwide
http://www.codehot.co.uk/jokes.htm
From TFA: "Shift your gaze from the computer screen to the distance. And don't forget to blink!"
Even more important: don't forget to breath! It sounds ridiculous but I caught myself repeatedly forgetting to breath while working on a computer...
and I've had it many years, even before I owned a computer. I've been to many physiotherapists, doctors and specialists and the one thing I've learned and been reminded of over and over again is the importance of good posture. The way you sit and stand can and will affect the entire body. Sit up straight, keep the shoulder blades back and the chin tucked in. Don't slouch, and if you're a hangdog like me (head slumps foward as if trying to see the computer monitor better) you'd better stop and correct yourself.
RSI's are real and frequent and can be very traumatic. Please don't let it happen to you!
SEO Copywriter. Just Say ON
How can you be an editor of anything and still not know the difference between "to" and "too?"
I'm serious.
Carpal Tunnel is really just a symptom of atrophy from the lack of exercise. If you want to keep in good condition, just exercise. I play guitar and piano, and that helps me.
The underlying etiology of most carpal tunnel syndrome seen is not inflammatory arthritis from overuse, but rather an issue with fluid distribution surrounding the median nerve as it passes through the carpal tunnel in the wrist. Common conditions that exacerbate this compressive neuropathy include obesity, hypothyroidism, pregnancy, and the familial inheritance of a "square" shaped wrist.
While there are plenty of ways to make oneself uncomfortable at work, the shift in medical thinking now is that carpal tunnel syndrome is not a workplace injury entitling folks to compensation. The somatization of depressive symptoms is more likely to contribute to attempts to receive disability awards in a mass hysteria of sorts regarding carpal tunnel syndrome.
crazy dynamite monkey
I'm 50 years old and have been on computers for over 35. To me carpal tunnel has always been nonsense. Obviously some people have problems with their wrists.
Then I followed up on a different subject and discovered that carpal tunnel seem to be related to liver problems. A friend's friend handled some other problem and was found to have a non optimum liver due to what is really just a poor diet.
Handling his diet handled his carpal tunnel at the same time. Go figure. Except we know that the body usually ends up sending out warning signs before something becomes critical.
Take the type of headache that comes when you suffer from malnutrition. Simply by not eating or drinking much for a day or two, depending on the person. Head and stomach does not seem to directly relate. But there you have it.
Unfortunately I don't have more cases to go by.
...is have such a HORRIBLE subject-verb agreement even in colloquial conversation...
Every older and some younger Slashdotters
Sad. VERY sad.
At work, I control the mouse with my left hand. At home, I use my right hand. Yes, it sounds silly, but I think it helps.
Sometimes it's also fun to switch hands for other things, too.
If your job requires the constant use of screwdrivers, you know how bad this can be on your wrists. The ergo-style handles might improve your grip, but they don't address the problems of bad wrist geometry and body position that are endemic to their use. But the problem isn't really the handle, it's the length of the shank..
Go to the tool store, and buy a few of the 'jobber length' screwdrivers - for starters, a #1 & #2 phillips will be fine; they are most commonly used. These drivers have shanks that (depending on manufacturer) can vary from 12 to 24 inches in length (I actually own a pair of 30" drivers, but they are rarely used). Xcellite makes a nice series of long drivers. Select the right length based on *your height*, and no more bending over the workbench - you can use your normal standing posture.
But here's the really cool part: Instead of gripping the driver like you normally would (like most people hold a flashlight) you girp it like a joystick - that is, you keep the shank *perpendicualr* to your arm, not parallel. If the fasterners are on a vertical, you can use an overhand or underhand grip, and still keep the shank perpendicular to your arm. Another bonus is that your hand on the driver is no longer blocking your view of the work.
The reduction in fatigue, and the improvements in control, power and posture will be very welcome. I've used these tools for a decade now, and would never dream of using stubby little drivers on any regular basis. Hope you find this useful, or at least interesting
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
Every 6 months, I perform a few minutes worth of exercises using my Flextend gloves. I haven't had CTS ever since purchasing the Flextend gear (I type 120 wpm for nearly 8 hours a day, every day). Why doctors couldn't tell me how CTS worked and could be overcome yet the internet told me in a matter of seconds, I'll never know. http://www.flextend.net/ I know their page looks kind of hokey, but all of the information is very, very true. By exercising the muscles that *open* the hand, the tunnel will balance out again and the pain will vanish.
Could you explain exactly how staring at a computer screen could lead to posterior vitreous detachment, let alone retinal detachment? I don't see how this is possible.
Your eyes are constantly moving, even while staring intently at something. If they weren't you wouldn't see anything after a few seconds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retinal_detachment
Everything you posted is wrong.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
I've noticed that when I'm making long, steady mouse movements in Photoshop that I hold my breath. I do the same when taking photographs. I have no idea why I do this but I suspect that I don't blink either.
Later today I will attempt to walk _and_ chew gum.
I'll take the appropriate precautions...
Weird thing happened to my shoulder recently. I went away for a couple of days skydiving. When I got back, my shoulder was killing me. I saw the doctor, and he sent me for physio which didn't help. Then I went away for another two weeks of driving and skydiving, but my shoulder was fine about 3 days into the trip. Even at the end of the trip it was still fine.
:D
I got home from the trip and starting processing photos and video, and within 4 hours my shoulder was absolutely killing me.
I eventually realised that the day after the first skydiving trip, I had started using a new mouse. Not believing this could be related, I moved back to my old mouse. A day later, my shoulder was fine and it hasn't troubled me since.
I just kinda assumed that it was the skydiving that had done the harm. I mean, which is more likely to cause physical harm? Falling out of the sky or using a mouse? In this case, it turned out to be the mouse
" Didn't think hard work would hurt anybody right?"
... who's supervising.
Hard work never kills anyone
I've never heard of computer use leading to retinal detachment before. I've had a quick search and can't find anything to support this. Does anyone have any links providing more information about this?
I read that extreme short-sightedness increases the risk of retinal detachment, but otherwise trauma seems to be the main cause. Maybe it's due to the banging of heads against walls and/or monitor when the dreaded "This application has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down..." pops up seconds before you save.
I recently started taking glucosamine to see if my knee pains would subside.
Not only does it seem to alleviate that problem as advertised, I also feel much better in my wrists!
The last years I have felt aches in my wrists that seem much similar to the descriptions of RSI I have read. My motorbike put a lot of stress on the wrists, and I type away on computers all days long.
Glucosamine is supposed to be one building block of which the body makes cartilege and joint liquid from, and I suppose it might also be beneficial for tendon tunnles.
In fact, I was kind of depressed util recently as I figured I will have to live with chronic sore wrists, but after a few weeks on glucosamine they feel like they used to again.
So Try It!
Quite presumptuous to say "everyone".
I use a mouse that allows my hand to be in a thumb-up position, no strain.
There, fixed it.
--bdj
I've been a hard-core programmer for about 15 years and have had no problems (with my wrists/hands, that is). Until a couple of years ago. What happened then is that I had picked up playing drums (again) a few months earlier, and on one occurrance (it never happened again, for obvious reasons), I practiced an obscene amount of single strokes (alternating left-right hand) at high speed and at length. Completely insane, I know. Now. A day or two after this, my problems started... My problems now is quite annoying numbness in pinky and ring fingers and along that "edge" of the hand, both left and right, and the whole length of the ulnar nerve from upper arm to hand is very sensitive. I can trigger the funny bone feeling by simply stroking the inside of my upper arm (for those that do not know, the "funny bone" is actually the ulnar nerve http://www.med.mun.ca/anatomyts/nerve/ulnar1.gif). I can no longer play the drums. It gets significantly worse after about 5-10 minutes and I'm forced to stop. My typing has suffered as well. I can't type as fast as I could before and my pinky fingers feel slow and weak(er). My problems aren't really about pain, but mostly the numbness. It can ache somewhat for short periods if I type for longer periods (which is now only a few hours).
The diagnoses I've gotten basically boils down to either back problem or simply "pressure on ulnar nerve" (at the wrist), and none of the people and different kinds of doctors I've talked to, seem to have idea what to do about it. Seeing that the problems started after my little "session" and it not something that has gradually increased over time, I personally doubt that the "classic" reasons for RSI apply in my case. Like, bad posture, bad keyboard etc. Nor do I think the problem is related to back problems (I've never had any significant problems with my back either).
I might as well throw a question out there while I'm at it,any suggestions or similar experiences? I read the page on JWZ, some good points there.
...it's just a bunch of quasi-mature people spouting.
Low info density, really.
Bye.
I am by nature very skeptical but I read Healing Back Pain by Sarno after I started getting carpal tunnel syndrome about a year ago.
I used to sleep with wrist braces every night and try to cut down computer time which is difficult considering I'm a computer programmer for a living. Now I only think about CPS when it's brought up on Slashdot.
The parent is a fairly accurate description. You can google TMS and Sarno to find additional information or just rent his book from the local library.
I'm a big tall mofo.
I started to get pain in my rists, and trust me I was trying to do everything ergonomically correct. A co-worker was using keyboarder gloves, so I decided to try them out- and all my pain went away. http://www.ergomall.com/kbinfo.html I would recommend against the teal color option
Am I heading for disaster, or am I anatomically resistant to the problem?
You really think having your dick fall off is better than having carpal tunnel?
Excellent exercises for RSI suffers organized by where it hurts. Logical, no? Also contains preventative exercises. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Stress Injuries http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1572240393/sr=8-1 /qid=1146067332/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5383978-0991125?_ encoding=UTF8/
You basically hold your hands up in front of you, palms facing you. Then make a tight fist, and rotate each fist to the outside as far as it will go. Fists will tend to pull downward, which is fine. (Looking from above, the right fist rotates counter clockwise while the left first rotates clockwise.) Hold the stretch for about 10-15 seconds. For me, this has been the absolute cheapest, simplest, and laziest way to deal with RSI from typing.
your retna detaching is a bad thing,
my friend had hers detatch.
I thought I had mine start to go (the doctor said not).
as far as I know its common in near sighted people.
but I was never told that eye strain causes it.
so yah...are you sure?
--meh--
Well, it sounds strange because Harley guys get Carpal Tunnel too, because of their heavy clutches...
The important part is it's a totally different set of motions than typing. Whenever I do some heavy coding and start getting pains, the ride home helps a hell of a lot. So far I've avoided the casts, wrist appliances, etc that a lot of my co-workers have.
Just my 0.02 Euros, based just on my experience hacking for 20 years and riding a bike for 15.
but your genes can beat you...
much of this is genetic. your story indicates you made out well, genetically. others do not make out so well. i'm one of the others. i did all you did and i became literally crippled by the time i was 20 - with no diagnosis. a calculator was a mini torture device to me - one more reason to hate doing taxes.
i eventually went on disability, about 8 years later, until the nerve conduction tests indicated nerve damage across my elbow.
i eventually had a sub muscular nerve transposition (cut skin open by elbow, drill holes throw elbow bone, saw off elbow bone, move bone from "funny bone" grove and move it to the inside of the arm, realign homes on bone, sew up bone, sow up skin, suck down morphine for a night or two).
after surgery, i could only bend my arm to about 90 degrees. i had to rehab to get it almost straight.
you know what i did in order to go from "i'm sure it hurts, but we don't know why" to "yup, there's nerve damage there?"
i started swimming at the encouragement of a worker's comp rep.
however, given my genetic condition, swimming (wrapping those nerves around my elbow repetitively) was about the worst thing i could do.
i believe this issue is 80% genetics and diet (i recommend the zone diet due to its anti-inflammatory effects and, frankly, it has worked well to minimize pain, not to mention it keeps weight in check and it improves mood. it was referred to me by a lady with rsi injuries who had similar positive effects on her condition), exercise and proper ergonomics can fight over the last 20%.
how else can i explain the excruciating pain i had after pitching in little league games? my other arm also has issues and hurts a lot, but since it wasn't dominant, it didn't get as severely injured. but it always reminds what will happen should i stress it wrong...
even after my surgery, i will not do curls nor bench press nor do any kind of exercise that wraps my nerve around my elbow. i even try to sleep with my arms straight.
so, to make your anecdotal evidence more closely match the truth, if you have the genetics to support it, exersice might well help you fight off the effects of rsi. however, if you don't have good genetics, exercise might aggravate the problem.
btw, a lady at work has similar symptoms to what i had pre surgery. i feel very bad for her b/c, if my experience was any indication, she has another 5-7 years of suffering before a diagnosis can be made... and the corrective surgery is a b*. then rehab. it is tough.
as for me, i do engineering and programming work - and when i program a lot my hands / arms hurt more instead of hurting less. they alsways seem to hurt at least a little.
i do try and do should shrugs and i lift weights to my front and to my side with my arms straight. i try and do cardio and was playing b-ball regularly until i had a scare with my knee. exercise is great. i love it.
but my genetics limit what i can do and i have to live within that limitation.
you can't beat your genes, but your genes can beat you.
I had RSI so bad for 11 years I could not type or use a mouse or do a hundred other daily tasks. After seeing many doctors, chiropractors, physiotherapists and massage therapists (some of whom helped, most didn't) I was able to mostly cure myself within a year by following the advice in 2 books:
The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief by Clare Davies (this was 90% of the cure)
It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome by Sharon Butler
There was nothing wrong with my wrists; it was all in my neck and shoulders, but I felt the pain in my arms.
I am now back to programming full time, but still suffer setbacks when working longer than 40 hours a week.
I have been working with computers daily since 1992 and I've had no pain. I attribute to this to my trackball. Mice are the problem - you have to squeeze them constantly. My hand just lies ontop of the trackball.
Two kinds of 'breaks' release the accumulating fluid pressure in the carpal tunnel.
The micro-break, which takes as long as you'd take to assess exactly where to end the line when the carriage bell rings, then to push the carriage return lever on the typewriter.
Do one micro-break about every 60 characters or so.
The mini-break, which takes about as long as you'd require to assess exactly where to end your page, roll up the platen to remove the paper and carbons, reach and turn to place each sheet in its stack, reach and turn to the other side long enough to pick out fresh blank paper and perhaps fresh carbon paper, tap the edges to square them up, set them into the carriage and turn the platen knob until the first line of type will fall where it's needed.
These are -- no shit, kids, this is real -- measured by putting small needles with pressure sensors into people's carpal tunnel spaces. When you hold your hands in one position and type, the fluid pressure in that space slowly and steadily increases over time. The micro-break relieves a micro-amount per each line. The mini-break relieves the rest and your carpal tunnel fluid pressure has dropped about back to rest level after that break.
Then take stand/stretch/rest breaks because while the fluid pressure's increased there's being more wear and tear on the nerve bundles.
Note that there are two main bundles -- sensory nerves, that's touch and pain; motor nerves, that's pressure information from each joint capsule going up to the spine and motor spindle muscle fiber commands coming back down to maintain the pressure so you don't drop little things like Post-Its, paperclips, pens, books, screwdrivers, power saws, chainsaws, or yourself off of a ladder.
Only some 3 percent of people with carpal tunnel damage get it on the motor side first -- the hand surgeon who recognized mine, after I'd dropped myself off a ladder by losing my grip slightly, said most office admins will insist that if there's no pain you don't have carpal tunnel.
Funny thing, I told him, that's what they've been telling me for nine years as I've dropped more and bigger things each year.
And he said I was lucky, a few more years and I would have never been fixable.
He was wrong, he did the surgery, and it was too late to help.
Remember -- if you're dropping little things, it's not age, it's nerve damage. See a neurologist.
The Worker's Compensation Insurance Industry is not your friend.
The word you're searching for is "rugburn".
I played evrything from DM to UBRS and MC ,nvr heard of CS...
Yes that could be the new angle used by lawyers to sue companies who cause people to ruin the solo sex lives. Descrimination that a sex live needs a partner may also be at stake here.
I had tremendous problems until I switched to a Kinesis Ergo Classic Keyboard and a Logitech trackball (the one where you move the ball with your thumb).
The Kinesis was expensive but it was worth every penny. Not only was it way better than the MS Natural at alleviating my symptoms, it has built in macros (for software/OS independent key macro), a sound chip, etc. It takes about 4 days to get used to, but then I was able to type faster than I _ever_ was able to in the past (without any pain).
I don't work for either company, but I am very grateful to them for helping solve my painful RSI issues.
Seriously, does everything Google does have to make the front page? That post contains zero new information that isn't here, here, or here.
Yes, fine, I admit it, everyone at Google is smarter, happier, richer, more statuesque, and throws better parties than The Rest of Us. We're not worthy. Now stop telling me about it.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
I realise its better to deal with the cause and not only the symptoms, but when I get that tingly feeling and numbness I slap on a 'Tokuhon medical plaster' I got from a chinese doctor in china town. It really is miraculous, makes all the pain and numbness go away. This sounds like a viagra advert but really, its true. Here's the ingredients:
- ?-Menthol
- Methyl Salicylate
- ??-Camphor
- Tocopherol Acetate
- Glycol Salicylate
Made by 'TOKUHON Corporation, 4-1-2,Nihonbashi-Honcho, Chu-ku, Tokyo, Japan'
I have to wonder how many of the posts in here that refer people to a specific product with claims of personal satisfaction with that product are actually marketing shills.
To do some wild speculation, I would guess that this is caused by the fact that we tend to look in a constant direction at all times. Part of how nature has evolved is that whenever you move your eyes from one object to another, you blink. (Google "saccade" and "blink" for more info - I can't quickly find anything concise.)
To add to the speculation, this is probably even more pronounced than when reading, since at least then you need to go the next line, turn pages, etc.
About ten years ago I started getting "mouse wrist" and "mouse neck/shoulder" (yes, even when keeping palm relatively still, you will exercise muscles in the neck). I taught myself to use the mouse left handed. It was difficult at first, but now I don't even think about it. I switch back and forth throughout the day without thinking. It works wonders.
;)
p.s., that subject title is in reference to using the mouse....although being ambidextrous does have its other benefits
Did you hear about the massive freeway tunnel they were going to build under Los Angeles? It was going to be for carpools only. It was canceled, because they were afraid of "carpool tunnel syndrome."
I'm Peggy.
Meh, carpal tunnel is one thing I don't have to worry about. I have a natural, built-in defense: attention deficit disorder. Woot for battling ailments!
Retinal detachment will lead to small pieces of tissue released into the vitreous fluid (eye juice), which causes "eye floaters." These small pieces of tissue floating around in your eye fluid cast shadows onto your retina, which interfere with your vision. Interference with your vision can range from minimal to extremely distracting, usually depending on how much tissue is in the fluid and on lighting conditions. There is no cure for this condition yet, only one eye doctor claims to be able to cure it with laser surgery, but until there is a vitreous fluid transplant, you will be stuck with them for life. There is some hope, as you age the fluid tends to thicken and slow the movement of the tissue particles, by which time you will probably have other eye conditions to worry about.
Beware of the Redittor who loans you a Sharpie.
There's a bunch of tendons, and one nerve, that run through a confined space in your wrist (the carpal tunnel). Inflammation of these tendons causes pressure within the space, that compresses the nerve, and causes a tingling sensation in the 'thumb' side of your palm, and weakness (and sometimes atrophy) in the muscles it supplies (the bulging muscle muscle below your thumb).
Do you disagree with any of that?
The tendons that run in the carpal tunnel come from muscles in the forearm, and attach to places in the hand. Moving your wrist around a lot (especially constant pressure) will cause the tendons to rub together, and get inflammed.
It's more often seen in people who do repetive hard manual work. A freezing worker, who holds a heavy knife, and cuts through 200 carcasses a day, is more likely to have problems that a spindly geek typing.
But obviously, they move their wrists, and both have potential to get this inflammation, and the syndrome.
It's 'cured' by slicing through the tendonous sheath that forms the anterior (the palm side of your wrist) wall of the carpal tunnel. (The other walls are bone). This is called decompression. It's very safe to do.
Please explain why the syndrome does not exist. I don't get you.
Hell, I stopped getting that tingling feeling years ago.
Now my fingers just seize up and I lose feeling.