Where was he when a crop of English majors called themselves 'programmers' and 'project managers' and started making $50-60k right out of college?
The INJUSTICE OF IT ALL! Why, people are making a LIVING! The HORROR!
and playing games with people's careers in the process, but is a union going to fix that?
Maybe not. What is? I think we all agree that playing games with people's careers is wrong and that is precisely what business, led by lying rat fuck cheat phone-flipping hairpiece asscrack middle managers, has been doing.
business has one responsibility: to make profit for their shareholders.
Bullshit. Bull FUCKING shit.
bascially do nothing about and pray your boss doesn't hear you being 'ungrateful'
I don't have a boss. If I did, I would wipe my ass with his face if he heard me being "ungrateful." If he complained I would tell him to suck my crotch.
shipping jobs overseas and reaping the profit
Can't make a profit employing people at a living wage. Sounds like management has a problem of insufficient huevos.
I'm not sure what picture you're trying to present with your statistics.
We're fucked. How's that?
low unemployment
No. We have low numbers of people collecting unemployment insurance. The "unemployment rate" does not and has not ever measured the true unemployment rate.
If you focus on heavily unionized businesses like auto production or the airline industry, you see corporate failures and bankruptcy. So there is at least some support for the idea that unions are bad for business overall.
Look up the logical fallacy "post hoc ergo propter hoc."
So in that sense the union has completely failed GM employees;
General Motors has been unionized for how many decades now?
(That statistic always brings the trolls-a-runnin' The reason is because they can't handle the fact that it's true and it perfectly illustrates how FUCKED WE ARE)
If you cant afford to walk out the door at work right now then you really need to look at your lifestyle and start "tightening up" right now to keep yourself from following the road to stupidity that most americans are following in their finances.
I agree. Let's start with outlawing 28% credit card rates.
Fair enough. The street in front of the employer is not theirs. Voters should forbid them from using it. Perfectly fair according to your logic.
Lets also not forget that in many unions, ones loyalties are to the union and the company you work for far behind.
In all companies, loyalty is to profit, and the employees are left out. Middle management wants an adversarial arrangement, as long as they outnumber their adversary.
Thus, they will do what they need to support themselves. That may include firing you to improve the bottom line.
Fine. Then the voters can do what they need to support themselves, like say, revoke their corporate charter and make it illegal for them to use our streets. Goes around. Comes around. And all that shit.
Business has the same responsibilities as the people. When they fuck over their neighbors, it's wrong. Period.
Why would I want the playing field artificially leveled?
What's artificial about a union? Artificial?
If on the other hand your job involves a high level of innovation and metal agility these attributes may well contribute to you rising through an organisation.
I certainly do not want to belong to an organization where I can only be guaranteed a salary increase across the board next to the same slacker programmer who didn't contribute.
But you probably have no problem belonging to an organization that fires people who do contribute.
And of course, you will fail to acknowledge the inconsistency between those two opinions.
The fact is, when the PHBs numbers aren't going to be favorable, then your job may be on the chopping block.
Yes, because management is always right. It is never wrong to fire someone. Never.
But with the same sentiment, when it comes times for initial salary negotiations, take the gloves off, and _fight for every penny_.
And get fired for not being a team player. Nice try.
Unfortunately, this process produces hydrogen with less power than what went into splitting the water apart, and the generator itself is not 100% efficient of course.
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Let me repeat that.
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Okay?
There is one perfectly efficient energy production mechanism: matter/anti-matter total conversion of mass to energy. We don't have the technology for that yet. Therefore ALL ENERGY PRODUCTION IS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE LESS THAN 100% EFFICIENT. PLEASE STOP DENOUNCING NEW ENERGY IDEAS WITH THIS TIRED, INACCURATE CLICHE.
And how pray tell are we going to get this energy source?
It's the big bright yellow star that orbits the Earth.
We'd all like solar power, but you can't just wave your hands and say solar energy is the answer.
Solar energy has been the answer for 4 billion years. We've been using solar energy since we got here. Using solar energy to extract hydrogen from water is perfectly reasonable. Burning that hydrogen is also perfectly reasonable. The thermodynamics argument is a red herring designed to make people sound intelligent while distracting everyone else from the point.
I love these announcements of "big giant bloated company filled with cynical skeptical middle managers drenched in cash shows interest in something" as news. Proves the point that big giant bloated companies are rarely interested in anything except the lunch menu.
Monopolies are the end goal of every profit making entity.
Nonsense.
hey are not the opposite of Capitalism, they are its zenith.
Also nonsense. Capitalism requires a free market. A monopoly, by definition, prevents a free market from existing at all, much less functioning. Monopolies repel capital.
The problem lies in the fact that electricity, cable, phone services, water, garbage collection are luxuries.
Water is a luxury? There are some things that are poorly provided by a free market. Everyone depends on water and electricity to function, including the capitalist businesses.
But people for some reason (hearing it from politicians) think they are entitled to all of these things
So you're arguing that people are not entitled to water?
Startups have little or no access to capital at all.
In addition, capitalism works regardless of the perceived fairness of the transaction.
If by "works" you mean products are bought and sold, then yes, you are correct. If by "works" you mean there are actually free markets and capital available to the average business, then you are incorrect. Capital and free markets are the scarcest commodities in this economy.
Also monopoloy is not evil at all provided it comes about naturally.
Monopoly is the opposite of a free market. Capitalism fails in the presence of a monopoly precisely because with a monopoly there IS no market. Monopolies repel capital as surely as gravity attracts mass.
Slashdot Mirror
There is no such thing as job security. The past of working for one company for your entire career has been over for several decades.
Fine. Let's outlaw the 30-year mortgage, since it is directly tied to the concept of job security.
You should plan around that.
It costs one million dollars to raise a child to the age of 18 and send them to college.
One million dollars.
Why do you think unions are inherently evil, but companies are not
You win the discussion.
Where was he when a crop of English majors called themselves 'programmers' and 'project managers' and started making $50-60k right out of college?
The INJUSTICE OF IT ALL! Why, people are making a LIVING! The HORROR!
and playing games with people's careers in the process, but is a union going to fix that?
Maybe not. What is? I think we all agree that playing games with people's careers is wrong and that is precisely what business, led by lying rat fuck cheat phone-flipping hairpiece asscrack middle managers, has been doing.
Good example. Now here's an interesting question:
1. When was the last Pixar layoff?
2. When was the last Electronic Arts layoff?
Hmm...
business has one responsibility: to make profit for their shareholders.
Bullshit. Bull FUCKING shit.
bascially do nothing about and pray your boss doesn't hear you being 'ungrateful'
I don't have a boss. If I did, I would wipe my ass with his face if he heard me being "ungrateful." If he complained I would tell him to suck my crotch.
shipping jobs overseas and reaping the profit
Can't make a profit employing people at a living wage. Sounds like management has a problem of insufficient huevos.
I'm not sure what picture you're trying to present with your statistics.
We're fucked. How's that?
low unemployment
No. We have low numbers of people collecting unemployment insurance. The "unemployment rate" does not and has not ever measured the true unemployment rate.
If you focus on heavily unionized businesses like auto production or the airline industry, you see corporate failures and bankruptcy. So there is at least some support for the idea that unions are bad for business overall.
Look up the logical fallacy "post hoc ergo propter hoc."
So in that sense the union has completely failed GM employees;
General Motors has been unionized for how many decades now?
Link, please?
Already provided. Nice troll.
(That statistic always brings the trolls-a-runnin' The reason is because they can't handle the fact that it's true and it perfectly illustrates how FUCKED WE ARE)
If you cant afford to walk out the door at work right now then you really need to look at your lifestyle and start "tightening up" right now to keep yourself from following the road to stupidity that most americans are following in their finances.
I agree. Let's start with outlawing 28% credit card rates.
The job I work is not mine
Fair enough. The street in front of the employer is not theirs. Voters should forbid them from using it. Perfectly fair according to your logic.
Lets also not forget that in many unions, ones loyalties are to the union and the company you work for far behind.
In all companies, loyalty is to profit, and the employees are left out. Middle management wants an adversarial arrangement, as long as they outnumber their adversary.
Thus, they will do what they need to support themselves. That may include firing you to improve the bottom line.
Fine. Then the voters can do what they need to support themselves, like say, revoke their corporate charter and make it illegal for them to use our streets. Goes around. Comes around. And all that shit.
Business has the same responsibilities as the people. When they fuck over their neighbors, it's wrong. Period.
Keep your skills fresh, work hard, be a team player ... and plan for contingencies like being out of work for a while.
Sounds great to me. I think I'll sign a 30 year mortgage with that kind of career!
there are lots of challenging well-paying jobs for good, enthusiastic, productive programmers.
That pay shit or aren't within 100 miles.
Nice try.
Lots of us are concerned that unions cause the downfall of corporations and the loss of massive number of jobs to foreign countries.
14% of the work force is unionized. Most are government workers.
What's the Dow at today?
How many outsourced jobs?
Here's a fact: 50% of working-age adults are NOT employed in full-time, salaried jobs.
Fifty.
Percent.
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics
Why would I want the playing field artificially leveled?
What's artificial about a union? Artificial?
If on the other hand your job involves a high level of innovation and metal agility these attributes may well contribute to you rising through an organisation.
But it will probably lead to a layoff anyway.
Perhaps you should have considered your family plans in your financial plans.
Perhaps business should take some responsibility, like everyone else has to.
I certainly do not want to belong to an organization where I can only be guaranteed a salary increase across the board next to the same slacker programmer who didn't contribute.
But you probably have no problem belonging to an organization that fires people who do contribute.
And of course, you will fail to acknowledge the inconsistency between those two opinions.
The fact is, when the PHBs numbers aren't going to be favorable, then your job may be on the chopping block.
Yes, because management is always right. It is never wrong to fire someone. Never.
But with the same sentiment, when it comes times for initial salary negotiations, take the gloves off, and _fight for every penny_.
And get fired for not being a team player. Nice try.
Unions are bad.
You don't deserve a job or a paycheck. Nobody will acknowledge this contradicts all property rights.
Middle management is always right, even if they are proven wrong mathematically.
Nothing you ever accomplish means anything unless it leads to maximum profit.
Nobody in this discussion will ever acknowledge that destroying the labor force will destroy society.
There. Just saved everyone hours of typing.
Now if you could come up with a way to create biofuels without heavy land usage or fossil-fuel inputs, then you'd have something.
Grow the plants on the surface of the ocean.
Unfortunately, this process produces hydrogen with less power than what went into splitting the water apart, and the generator itself is not 100% efficient of course.
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Let me repeat that.
IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Okay?
There is one perfectly efficient energy production mechanism: matter/anti-matter total conversion of mass to energy. We don't have the technology for that yet. Therefore ALL ENERGY PRODUCTION IS AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE LESS THAN 100% EFFICIENT. PLEASE STOP DENOUNCING NEW ENERGY IDEAS WITH THIS TIRED, INACCURATE CLICHE.
Thank you.
And how pray tell are we going to get this energy source?
It's the big bright yellow star that orbits the Earth.
We'd all like solar power, but you can't just wave your hands and say solar energy is the answer.
Solar energy has been the answer for 4 billion years. We've been using solar energy since we got here. Using solar energy to extract hydrogen from water is perfectly reasonable. Burning that hydrogen is also perfectly reasonable. The thermodynamics argument is a red herring designed to make people sound intelligent while distracting everyone else from the point.
I love these announcements of "big giant bloated company filled with cynical skeptical middle managers drenched in cash shows interest in something" as news. Proves the point that big giant bloated companies are rarely interested in anything except the lunch menu.
Competition...
brings a tear to me eye...
*sniff*
a sad decline in American education and competitiveness
The direct result of using layoffs as a budgetary tool. Every layoff costs the entire society millions of dollars in wasted effort.
If the U.S. is not competitive or is uneducated, it is the fault of U.S. business management. End of story.
Monopolies are the end goal of every profit making entity.
Nonsense.
hey are not the opposite of Capitalism, they are its zenith.
Also nonsense. Capitalism requires a free market. A monopoly, by definition, prevents a free market from existing at all, much less functioning. Monopolies repel capital.
The problem lies in the fact that electricity, cable, phone services, water, garbage collection are luxuries.
Water is a luxury? There are some things that are poorly provided by a free market. Everyone depends on water and electricity to function, including the capitalist businesses.
But people for some reason (hearing it from politicians) think they are entitled to all of these things
So you're arguing that people are not entitled to water?
startups that cannot command the same capital
Startups have little or no access to capital at all.
In addition, capitalism works regardless of the perceived fairness of the transaction.
If by "works" you mean products are bought and sold, then yes, you are correct. If by "works" you mean there are actually free markets and capital available to the average business, then you are incorrect. Capital and free markets are the scarcest commodities in this economy.
Also monopoloy is not evil at all provided it comes about naturally.
Monopoly is the opposite of a free market. Capitalism fails in the presence of a monopoly precisely because with a monopoly there IS no market. Monopolies repel capital as surely as gravity attracts mass.