ccording to the government's own statistics the full time employment count is over 112 million people
Including temps and self-employed, right? Does this also count people who have dropped out of the workforce completely?
Your anti-business, anti-capitalist screed
How is it anti-capitalist to point out that business has turned its back on its neighbors? Capitalism does not imply 50,000% profits made by selling poor-quality crap to $6.00/hour coffee servers.
There are more people working in this country than at any other time in our history.
At lower pay, with fewer benefits, less job security, no pension, etc. Notice that nobody has replied to the 288% corporate assets compared with the 9% wage growth statistics. Of course, the obvious reply will be asking for a source for the statistics so the argument can neatly shift from the actual discussion to an argument over the statistics, like this one.
The fact is, stable, adequately paid, full-time career employment is obsolete, because business doesn't want to pay for it, and because business wants it that way.
In other words, how about if I provide my own off-topic straw man so we can argue about the statistics instead of the point:
Stable, full-time adequately-paid employment is rarely, if at all, available in the modern workplace. This has only recently been true. Business is turning its back on its neighbors in order to make more money.
Seemed to do alright for the first 80 years. Then Disney decided it was too expensive, so they crammed it all in a toilet, and people got tired of it.
Some other animation studio will pick up the out-of-work artists and make a hit.
That's not the point. Why should these people have been shit on? They did everything right, including making nine-figure movies.
Also sticking with huge companies isn't always a rational thing todo anyways.
I'm sure that's very comforting to those animators who lost their homes, savings, retirements and careers. It was destructive, unnecessary and wrong to fire those people. The basic idea is the same throughout the workplace. It doesn't matter what employees "bring to the table." There is no such thing as a career. Business has made the entire concept obsolete.
No. Those people have to eat and they need a place to live. The fact they have no access to, nor any way to find access to full-time adequate employment is not a good thing.
Increased productivity so that not everyone need be engaged in a constant minute-to-minute struggle for existence every minute of every day is a benefit, not a drawback.
Except for the millions who, in their mid-20s, cannot find stable adequate employment because the only jobs they are "qualified" for, despite their college degrees, are $7.50 an hour part-time retail jobs. Jobs which cannot support people.
Meanwhile, the companies that offer these "jobs" are busy with frantic multi-billion $ expansion in every single market. It would be nice if these companies would respect both sides of the social contract and offer a few real jobs while they advertise constantly at top volume and fill up every open space with a new store.
Wanna make sure you're employable as a software developer? Make sure you're actually knowledgeable about the science *and* the field.
You know, the animation industry is a good example of why this doesn't work. Disney laid off hundreds upon hundreds of totally irreplaceable feature animators over the past few years, most recently in Florida. These people were almost directly responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue to the company. But, they're too expensive.
So to fuck all with their skill, experience and DIRECT INFLUENCE ON TOP-LINE REVENUE, out on their ass they went with their pencils and ink and an EIGHT-DECADE tradition of animation quality right after them.
Companies don't give a fuck about skill or education. It's too expensive. They would much rather sell shit at a 50,000% markup and congratulate themselves at company parties.
It is not due to work visas or outsourcing, but has much more to do with the evolution of work itself
Nonsense. It has to do with the wholesale re-negotiation of the social contract between business and the society it sells to.
Business is no longer satisfied with the simple model of building a product and selling it. That would require work, investment, long-term planning and respect for the skill, education and loyalty of their employees.
Much better, business says, to sell all of that and simply manufacture brands. The modern workplace is therefore obsolete, because business does not want to pay for it. It's really that simple. People are only useful if they are opening their wallets at a cash register. They are not worthy to be employed and paid a fair wage.
There are voluminous statistics to support this, but a few should be sufficient. In the last few years, corporate assets have increased 288%. Employee compensation has increased 9%.
Over half of the working-age population is either a temp, part-time, unemployed or out of the workforce entirely. Read it again: HALF OF THE WORKING-AGE POPULATION IS NOT EMPLOYED FULL-TIME. Companies have no respect for anything: skills, education, experience are all totally meaningless to these companies. ALL that matters is money. That's why it takes five interviews and a credit-check to get hired, but only an e-mail to be fired.
Unless, of course, we're discussing the price tags of all these "brands." Then, it's "you get what you pay for." Like $2500 for a mattress and $4500 for a television, $175 for a basket of groceries and $50,000 for a car. It's nonsense, of course, but everyone's too busy arguing about the problem. Nobody is interested in hearing the facts. All that matters is money.
It's the most powerful rocket ever built. It's the only vehicle ever to carry people to another world. It is a fantastic technical achievement. Of course, most people don't know that. Half can't read. How could they know about the Apollo program?
They want to hear tales of traveling to Mars!
Well, I wish them good luck. Our society is no longer interested in anything but short-term money grabs and new countertops for the kitchen remodeling. We don't read any more. We don't invent any more. We don't think any more. We simply package and re-package "proven commodities" to increase short-term profits at the expense of everything good and meaningful, including the space program.
Basically, if we can't make a business case for it, i.e. if we can't sell it for a 50,000% profit, it won't happen. Oh, we might get a magnanimous billionaire to throw a few million around here and there, but by and large, our society is stagnating. Nobody cares about anything unless it's a big pile of money.
As long as the public isn't hearing the same 50 year old science AGAIN (look, it's a Saturn V), they'll be interested.
The average person couldn't pick a Saturn V out if it were grouped with a folding chair and a mop. We'd do well to take another look at 50 year old science, because this society ain't inventing no more.
Another reason for a long whining gripe about how much Star Wars sucks because of Jar-Jar. Oh happiness and joy.
Are they still going to have the lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin on lava-surfboards with Beach Boys music? Oh, the wailing that will be heard in the aisles of the theaters. Is Gollum going to leap from the lava and fight Obi-Wan too?
It's going to be great when, at the end of Episode III, the combined casts of all six movies form a chorus and sing the theme song as the credits roll.
I just don't think it's productive to think of them as nothing but evil money-grubbing corporations.
Should have seen the last "agreement" I had to help talk another company out of signing. "Universal perpetual royalty-free rights to everything" seems quite common. Amounts of money greater than $1000 paid to developers seems quite uncommon.
Translation: without a 97-page "agreement" where the people who do all the work give away every last shred of value in the product in exchange for NOTHING so the people who do no work can stuff their pockets.
Wouldn't it be nice if the game industry could do that? $40,000 is pisswater for a major game publisher. They spend more than that restocking the vending machines.
Oh wait. The game industry doesn't want innovation. They want maximum money grab.
So the argument can be about the statistics instead of the actual issue. That's called a "straw man." Observations by people are PERFECTLY REASONABLE PREMISES in constructing an argument that the modern workplace is swirling cesspool of thievery, liars and cheats.
Slashdot Mirror
ccording to the government's own statistics the full time employment count is over 112 million people
Including temps and self-employed, right? Does this also count people who have dropped out of the workforce completely?
Your anti-business, anti-capitalist screed
How is it anti-capitalist to point out that business has turned its back on its neighbors? Capitalism does not imply 50,000% profits made by selling poor-quality crap to $6.00/hour coffee servers.
There are more people working in this country than at any other time in our history.
At lower pay, with fewer benefits, less job security, no pension, etc. Notice that nobody has replied to the 288% corporate assets compared with the 9% wage growth statistics. Of course, the obvious reply will be asking for a source for the statistics so the argument can neatly shift from the actual discussion to an argument over the statistics, like this one.
The fact is, stable, adequately paid, full-time career employment is obsolete, because business doesn't want to pay for it, and because business wants it that way.
how about a link to a specific study or document
In other words, how about if I provide my own off-topic straw man so we can argue about the statistics instead of the point:
Stable, full-time adequately-paid employment is rarely, if at all, available in the modern workplace. This has only recently been true. Business is turning its back on its neighbors in order to make more money.
Agreed. It's not a happy discussion topic. I also agree about the smaller companies. They seem to be more pleasant places to try and start a career.
but I do want to see the sources from which you got the statistics.
Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Department of Commerce.
Acts like that are only sustainable for so long.
Seemed to do alright for the first 80 years. Then Disney decided it was too expensive, so they crammed it all in a toilet, and people got tired of it.
Some other animation studio will pick up the out-of-work artists and make a hit.
That's not the point. Why should these people have been shit on? They did everything right, including making nine-figure movies.
Also sticking with huge companies isn't always a rational thing todo anyways.
I'm sure that's very comforting to those animators who lost their homes, savings, retirements and careers. It was destructive, unnecessary and wrong to fire those people. The basic idea is the same throughout the workplace. It doesn't matter what employees "bring to the table." There is no such thing as a career.
Business has made the entire concept obsolete.
it's growing tremendously.
.com years.
Elsewhere. While the products are advertised to the recently laid-off, constantly.
Writing VB is not going to earn you $50/hr.
Why not? It probably earned my boss twice that, and the shareholders ten times that, each.
that were filled by wannabes during the
You mean wannabe employed?
This is a good thing.
No. Those people have to eat and they need a place to live. The fact they have no access to, nor any way to find access to full-time adequate employment is not a good thing.
Increased productivity so that not everyone need be engaged in a constant minute-to-minute struggle for existence every minute of every day is a benefit, not a drawback.
Except for the millions who, in their mid-20s, cannot find stable adequate employment because the only jobs they are "qualified" for, despite their college degrees, are $7.50 an hour part-time retail jobs. Jobs which cannot support people.
Meanwhile, the companies that offer these "jobs" are busy with frantic multi-billion $ expansion in every single market. It would be nice if these companies would respect both sides of the social contract and offer a few real jobs while they advertise constantly at top volume and fill up every open space with a new store.
Knowledgeable people are here to stay.
Well, at least until the next round of layoffs.
Wanna make sure you're employable as a software developer? Make sure you're actually knowledgeable about the science *and* the field.
You know, the animation industry is a good example of why this doesn't work. Disney laid off hundreds upon hundreds of totally irreplaceable feature animators over the past few years, most recently in Florida. These people were almost directly responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue to the company. But, they're too expensive.
So to fuck all with their skill, experience and DIRECT INFLUENCE ON TOP-LINE REVENUE, out on their ass they went with their pencils and ink and an EIGHT-DECADE tradition of animation quality right after them.
Companies don't give a fuck about skill or education. It's too expensive. They would much rather sell shit at a 50,000% markup and congratulate themselves at company parties.
It is not due to work visas or outsourcing, but has much more to do with the evolution of work itself
Nonsense. It has to do with the wholesale re-negotiation of the social contract between business and the society it sells to.
Business is no longer satisfied with the simple model of building a product and selling it. That would require work, investment, long-term planning and respect for the skill, education and loyalty of their employees.
Much better, business says, to sell all of that and simply manufacture brands. The modern workplace is therefore obsolete, because business does not want to pay for it. It's really that simple. People are only useful if they are opening their wallets at a cash register. They are not worthy to be employed and paid a fair wage.
There are voluminous statistics to support this, but a few should be sufficient. In the last few years, corporate assets have increased 288%. Employee compensation has increased 9%.
Over half of the working-age population is either a temp, part-time, unemployed or out of the workforce entirely. Read it again: HALF OF THE WORKING-AGE POPULATION IS NOT EMPLOYED FULL-TIME. Companies have no respect for anything: skills, education, experience are all totally meaningless to these companies. ALL that matters is money. That's why it takes five interviews and a credit-check to get hired, but only an e-mail to be fired.
Unless, of course, we're discussing the price tags of all these "brands." Then, it's "you get what you pay for." Like $2500 for a mattress and $4500 for a television, $175 for a basket of groceries and $50,000 for a car. It's nonsense, of course, but everyone's too busy arguing about the problem. Nobody is interested in hearing the facts. All that matters is money.
There are shows out there that are science based, but how many people watch them?
Who cares? Does every show have to be a ratings bonanza? Can't television contribute to culture and learning instead of just ad revenue?
Why should they be interested in the Saturn V?
It's the most powerful rocket ever built. It's the only vehicle ever to carry people to another world. It is a fantastic technical achievement. Of course, most people don't know that. Half can't read. How could they know about the Apollo program?
They want to hear tales of traveling to Mars!
Well, I wish them good luck. Our society is no longer interested in anything but short-term money grabs and new countertops for the kitchen remodeling. We don't read any more. We don't invent any more. We don't think any more. We simply package and re-package "proven commodities" to increase short-term profits at the expense of everything good and meaningful, including the space program.
Basically, if we can't make a business case for it, i.e. if we can't sell it for a 50,000% profit, it won't happen. Oh, we might get a magnanimous billionaire to throw a few million around here and there, but by and large, our society is stagnating. Nobody cares about anything unless it's a big pile of money.
As long as the public isn't hearing the same 50 year old science AGAIN (look, it's a Saturn V), they'll be interested.
The average person couldn't pick a Saturn V out if it were grouped with a folding chair and a mop. We'd do well to take another look at 50 year old science, because this society ain't inventing no more.
There is no such thing as Joe Public. There is no such thing as the "general public."
People are going to switch to Windows from OS X. Oh sure. They'll probably line up around the Best Buy at midnight. Yeah. Uh huh.
Dell makes an iPod. Sony makes an iPod. Windows is trying to be OS X. Microsoft has a music store. HP licenses the iPod. Hmmm.
Yep. Everybody wants to be Apple.
Another reason for a long whining gripe about how much Star Wars sucks because of Jar-Jar. Oh happiness and joy.
Are they still going to have the lightsaber battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin on lava-surfboards with Beach Boys music? Oh, the wailing that will be heard in the aisles of the theaters. Is Gollum going to leap from the lava and fight Obi-Wan too?
It's going to be great when, at the end of Episode III, the combined casts of all six movies form a chorus and sing the theme song as the credits roll.
Most of apples products these days looks like a white brick.
And then their stock price triples. Everybody wants to be Apple.
Speech recognition seems similar to VRML. It would be really cool if it worked. But it never quite seems to work.
or you end up getting *nothing* done properly.
Thus, the current state of the workplace.
"Winning depended not on doing good work, but on gaining control of some bottleneck."
Hear. Hear.
I just don't think it's productive to think of them as nothing but evil money-grubbing corporations.
Should have seen the last "agreement" I had to help talk another company out of signing. "Universal perpetual royalty-free rights to everything" seems quite common. Amounts of money greater than $1000 paid to developers seems quite uncommon.
"without backing from large corporations"
Translation: without a 97-page "agreement" where the people who do all the work give away every last shred of value in the product in exchange for NOTHING so the people who do no work can stuff their pockets.
'Rewarding Innovation In Independent Games,'
Wouldn't it be nice if the game industry could do that? $40,000 is pisswater for a major game publisher. They spend more than that restocking the vending machines.
Oh wait. The game industry doesn't want innovation. They want maximum money grab.
What would happen if it hit the moon?
The moon would win.
you need national stats to make such a case
So the argument can be about the statistics instead of the actual issue. That's called a "straw man." Observations by people are PERFECTLY REASONABLE PREMISES in constructing an argument that the modern workplace is swirling cesspool of thievery, liars and cheats.
Can anybody explain to me how The Last Starfighter was remotely like Star Wars?
At least one scene had a starfield as a background.