I have seen similar frost protection for the orange groves but they sprayed water hoping for ice to cover the fruit, this prevents the fruit from experencing the lower temperature that would cause loss of the harvest. The ice covered fruit stays as a constant tempreature of I believe 30-32 degrees f. while the outside (of the ice covering) might go to 20-25 deg f. which would make the fruit unusable. If the grapes you suggest are sprayed with water and it is at or below the freezing point ice will form, but as I have wrote that is good. If the grape growers do spray water and it covers the grapes at (or below) freezing and it does not freeze I would like to know how, perhaps it can be done.
perhaps we will find it again. Looking for a possible rich water bound sight and then landing there for samples seems lide the best way to know for sure. Going from a solid to a vapor then into space would be a good reason to not find water on the surface of the moon, if water was/is very deep undermoon ground, beyond our abitilty to find from earth or orbiting observation it can still be there and as far as drilling deep for water I do not think that would pose a very big problem. We have to go there to know for sure.
A fried of mine was in the coast guard in the early 60's, one of his duties was changing the light bulbs on the large marker bouys, he would change about 24 bulbs on a rotating mount that would turn a new bulb in place when the previous one burned out. This way only a once a year visit to the bouy was needed. perhaps this could be used on a satalite with one or two extra lenses. More weight and expense but longer life. His story was pretty cool he described being on a 20 foot tall bouy in high seas and ocean spray hanging on with one hand and bulbs in the other, though he did not care for it, scared out of his wits most of the time.
www.users.wineasy.se/dg/treaties.htm................6. The Moon Treaty
What is normally refereed to as the Moon Treaty actually has the name "Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies"19.
This treaty came into force in 1984, five years after it was unanimously adopted by the U.N. General Assembly and opened for signature. Many countries have, however, decided not to be parties to the Moon Treaty. Sweden is one of them.
The Treaty declares that the Moon and all its natural resources are the "Common Heritage of Mankind", Art. 11 item 1, and that these resources shall be exploited according to an international regime, Art. 11 item 5.20 The idea of a Common Heritage of Mankind was that it would include the fair distribution between all states of the natural resources of the Moon, with particular consideration for the interests of the developing countries. It had even been proposed that the right of ownership of the specimens of minerals and other substances of the Moon should be vested in the United Nations, though a rule of this kind was not included in the Treaty.21
The United States could never agree to rules of this kind and have thus never ratified the Treaty. Since the U.S.A. declared that it would not ratify the Treaty, many other states have also decided not to ratify it, and Sweden is one of those.
The Moon Treaty is only binding for the few countries which have ratified it. Nevertheless, it must be considered binding on others to some extent, especially as to those rules of the Treaty which no one has made any objections about. These can perhaps be said to be part of space law due to consensus in COPUOS and the fact, that the Treaty has entered into force. When drafting new treaties on space law, COPUOS cannot make up rules in conflict with the Moon Treaty, unless the participating states agree, in consensus, that the conflicting rules in the Moon Treaty will be abolished.
With the possible health, social and political reactons to bring potential life back from mars would it be restricted to lets say a section of the ISS? Or perhaps a lab on the moon? I would think that if life was brought back from mars, what to do with it and how to keep it isolated so it can be studies (and preventing an "accident") would have almost the same impact as finding it.
True, but when you say "child" nudity (as you do not say in this reply) and possible molestation and that there is "no problem" you are wrong and you will piss a lot of people off, so say it and expect the responses, the prevous responses you have gotten on this subject are those that I agree with. I am done with you AC, if you respond to this you will be deleted with out being read.
There was a treaty signed thirty or fourty years ago prohibiting military bases on the moon and any claiming of a part of the moon by a single country, like in Antarctica. It will be interesting to see what happens when any color of gold is found in them thar hills(by one country) but only a few of them hills. Actually I detected a bit of sarcasm in your post as if you probably know this, and I might add you do it well, keep up the good work. A dozen(s) mile diameter bird roaster, bug zapper, cloud melter (guess) that can be shut off in only 3 seconds..built by robots. Sign here please
Yea, well I did go on your key but I am damn proud to be part of your team. (now that I think about it has anybody figured out it was six years 98,99,00,01,02,03? better to be over than under)
and the bartender says.. yep, 7 year old stories, bartenter jokes, sunday night, no beer, butterflys compeating with elephants. need an engine for my truck, at least they had fish at buffet for dinner, think I will try the radio, lets...(/.)...try...a...little...harder... for...a...real...time...story. Besides would'nt a comet have to be like the size of Jupiter to even reach the sun? And 100xJupiter to make a splash that would do something? I thnk these went pfft a few million miles out.
/.ing effect? It muct be confusing, go left, no right no, who is humming, I need an answer not a joke, there I was had my chance tried to fart but.., will wverybody please shut up I am trying to think!
I thought I would check to see if any one else would post this question before I would, I believe it has and I have a post and reply in my journal from when the story showed earlier. I would think there would be dozen or so post asking this but so much for long term memorys after a half dozen solar flares, or were there?
Thanks for the information, I was shooting from the hip, I read that reference about 25 years or so ago, I will try to find it im my boxes of books in my shed, I am interested were I read that reference myself, I will lst you know.
in Bulfinches mythology (excuse if not properly spelled) The druid priest predicted an eclipse and their calculations were very accurate (they thought) the eclipse did not happen on the day they predicted and their was a mass suicide among the priest. The eclipse happened a day or two later. This was pretty much the end for the druids since they did not have a known written lang. and it was the priest who kept them together, Though break, wonder if they had any good jokes.
Some of it probably is, most likly numbercrunching, data storage and assimilation into other data storage. India is becomming a good source of labor in the computer world. For NASA to give India prime data showing how to get to the moon well I do not think it will happen unless, well, I just don't think so. Everything from nationalistic tendencies, to the fact we have spent tens of billion of dollars and well it is our stuff. If India gave ten or twenty billion dollars to the ISS program and had another ten or twenty billion dollars to comit to a moon project and had a rocket with a proven, dependable track record they would get more attention from us and no doubt the Russians.
Perhaps the folks at NASA have been thinking about this and it is no big suprise, three days to the moon, extended weeks with out support from earth(the present ISS)and what is waiting for us (I am sure we can not comprehend at the moment)says we need to go back to the moon. Having lunar operations under the surface is a great benifit to less wear on structures and increased safty from constant exposure to open space. Rescue would need to be considered but so far our fatal errors have been in land based testing and reentry to earth. IT will be the astronauts who will get us there(practicly and inspirationly), more so the ones who landed on the moon and were part of the program in the 60's and 70's. Their words and descriptions of their space experence are magic, if they were talking about something as simple as connection two wires I could easily listen for hours, hell days, weeks. I have a great deal of praise for the present astronauts, however I am sure they would agree it is time to stop going in circles (orbits) as a deffinition of our manned space exploration. OF course money will be a big factor but gold comes in more than one color, and once it is found on the moon.....
A very interesting show I watched a while ago talked about how the local police departments (city, county, state) are evolving into para-military forces, something that the constitution, bill of rights and first ten amendments have a great distain for. Another stastic about if U.S. armed forces were willing to attack American civilians in a internal conflict (possible 10% error) the results were 50% yes. The history channel had a interesting show about SPARTA The greatest warriors of their times and some of the major reasons why they became extinct. one reason was they did not know what to do with a no-war (peace) situation, so they would start another war, another reason and probably the biggest one is that they pissed of their neighbors and allies for no apparent reason other than they felt like it (and lack of forsight).
"Right now we have 10 democrat presidential candidates that are so blinded by hatred and partisanship that the are hoping our economy gets worse and we fail in Iraq"....Do you really think that if you met one of the democrat candidates and said to him/her "You are blinded by hatred" that it really would make any sense? I think not.
Actually, even if you do not believe in astrology, which does not bother me one way or the other we might as well get some facts strait, astrologers so not read cards, they read charts.
Carl Jung had some interestings things to say about astrology something like "I am not sure what is happening (about astrological readings) but something is happening."
I am curious, which(european) countries outlaw firearms, I so not know of any, perhaps they are post eastern bloc countries, they had other ways to keep down crime, intense repression of all freedoms. As far as I know target shooting,shooting matches/competition hunting, and some private collecting, though with restrictions (compared to U.S.) are allowed in europe.
unless it is benign most of the time having vunerability to cancer (I would think) would end a species long before it had a chance to exist for millions of years.The theory of survival of a species is pretty tough to major faults. A baby elephant (chuckle)born with one leg shorter does not start a herd of elephants with the same likness it gets eaten. If the food of a duck bill hurts the duckbill it seem to me like a couple of generations before the end. X-raying rocks that look like bones can tell a lot but it seem like a jump to cancer is to soon. Perhaps for protection the baby duckbills were hatched on a ledge then had to hop down resuluting in a high percentage of minor fractures. There is a species of water fowl (actually I think they are ducks)that puah their (too small to learn to fly) young from the protecting hights down small(Moss and grass covered) cliffs and rocky paths, the young bounce like rubber balls and most of them make it (fox and wolves get a few)perhaps some/most of them have small fractures that would show up in their bone structures as adults.
Water (drinking) will be a very big issue espically who owns how much of a large river as it goes through several countries. There is an interesting approach to water in the highlands of peru, they have mist nets that catch the morning dew. with some moderen adaption they can actually get enough to drink and store.
Slashdot Mirror
but I wonder what stops developing a bike with a shaft drive instead of chain?
I have seen similar frost protection for the orange groves but they sprayed water hoping for ice to cover the fruit, this prevents the fruit from experencing the lower temperature that would cause loss of the harvest. The ice covered fruit stays as a constant tempreature of I believe 30-32 degrees f. while the outside (of the ice covering) might go to 20-25 deg f. which would make the fruit unusable. If the grapes you suggest are sprayed with water and it is at or below the freezing point ice will form, but as I have wrote that is good. If the grape growers do spray water and it covers the grapes at (or below) freezing and it does not freeze I would like to know how, perhaps it can be done.
perhaps we will find it again. Looking for a possible rich water bound sight and then landing there for samples seems lide the best way to know for sure. Going from a solid to a vapor then into space would be a good reason to not find water on the surface of the moon, if water was/is very deep undermoon ground, beyond our abitilty to find from earth or orbiting observation it can still be there and as far as drilling deep for water I do not think that would pose a very big problem. We have to go there to know for sure.
A fried of mine was in the coast guard in the early 60's, one of his duties was changing the light bulbs on the large marker bouys, he would change about 24 bulbs on a rotating mount that would turn a new bulb in place when the previous one burned out. This way only a once a year visit to the bouy was needed. perhaps this could be used on a satalite with one or two extra lenses. More weight and expense but longer life. His story was pretty cool he described being on a 20 foot tall bouy in high seas and ocean spray hanging on with one hand and bulbs in the other, though he did not care for it, scared out of his wits most of the time.
www.users.wineasy.se/dg/treaties.htm.............. ..6. The Moon Treaty
What is normally refereed to as the Moon Treaty actually has the name "Agreement Governing the Activities of States on the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies"19.
This treaty came into force in 1984, five years after it was unanimously adopted by the U.N. General Assembly and opened for signature. Many countries have, however, decided not to be parties to the Moon Treaty. Sweden is one of them.
The Treaty declares that the Moon and all its natural resources are the "Common Heritage of Mankind", Art. 11 item 1, and that these resources shall be exploited according to an international regime, Art. 11 item 5.20 The idea of a Common Heritage of Mankind was that it would include the fair distribution between all states of the natural resources of the Moon, with particular consideration for the interests of the developing countries. It had even been proposed that the right of ownership of the specimens of minerals and other substances of the Moon should be vested in the United Nations, though a rule of this kind was not included in the Treaty.21
The United States could never agree to rules of this kind and have thus never ratified the Treaty. Since the U.S.A. declared that it would not ratify the Treaty, many other states have also decided not to ratify it, and Sweden is one of those.
The Moon Treaty is only binding for the few countries which have ratified it. Nevertheless, it must be considered binding on others to some extent, especially as to those rules of the Treaty which no one has made any objections about. These can perhaps be said to be part of space law due to consensus in COPUOS and the fact, that the Treaty has entered into force. When drafting new treaties on space law, COPUOS cannot make up rules in conflict with the Moon Treaty, unless the participating states agree, in consensus, that the conflicting rules in the Moon Treaty will be abolished.
With the possible health, social and political reactons to bring potential life back from mars would it be restricted to lets say a section of the ISS? Or perhaps a lab on the moon? I would think that if life was brought back from mars, what to do with it and how to keep it isolated so it can be studies (and preventing an "accident") would have almost the same impact as finding it.
True, but when you say "child" nudity (as you do not say in this reply) and possible molestation and that there is "no problem" you are wrong and you will piss a lot of people off, so say it and expect the responses, the prevous responses you have gotten on this subject are those that I agree with. I am done with you AC, if you respond to this you will be deleted with out being read.
How do you know thay are not molested or harmed?
Thanks!
There was a treaty signed thirty or fourty years ago prohibiting military bases on the moon and any claiming of a part of the moon by a single country, like in Antarctica. It will be interesting to see what happens when any color of gold is found in them thar hills(by one country) but only a few of them hills. Actually I detected a bit of sarcasm in your post as if you probably know this, and I might add you do it well, keep up the good work. A dozen(s) mile diameter bird roaster, bug zapper, cloud melter (guess) that can be shut off in only 3 seconds..built by robots. Sign here please
Yea, well I did go on your key but I am damn proud to be part of your team. (now that I think about it has anybody figured out it was six years 98,99,00,01,02,03? better to be over than under)
and the bartender says.. yep, 7 year old stories, bartenter jokes, sunday night, no beer, butterflys compeating with elephants. need an engine for my truck, at least they had fish at buffet for dinner, think I will try the radio, lets...(/.)...try...a...little...harder... for...a...real...time...story. Besides would'nt a comet have to be like the size of Jupiter to even reach the sun? And 100xJupiter to make a splash that would do something? I thnk these went pfft a few million miles out.
/.ing effect? It muct be confusing, go left, no right no, who is humming, I need an answer not a joke, there I was had my chance tried to fart but.., will wverybody please shut up I am trying to think!
I thought I would check to see if any one else would post this question before I would, I believe it has and I have a post and reply in my journal from when the story showed earlier. I would think there would be dozen or so post asking this but so much for long term memorys after a half dozen solar flares, or were there?
Thanks for the information, I was shooting from the hip, I read that reference about 25 years or so ago, I will try to find it im my boxes of books in my shed, I am interested were I read that reference myself, I will lst you know.
in Bulfinches mythology (excuse if not properly spelled) The druid priest predicted an eclipse and their calculations were very accurate (they thought) the eclipse did not happen on the day they predicted and their was a mass suicide among the priest. The eclipse happened a day or two later. This was pretty much the end for the druids since they did not have a known written lang. and it was the priest who kept them together, Though break, wonder if they had any good jokes.
Some of it probably is, most likly numbercrunching, data storage and assimilation into other data storage. India is becomming a good source of labor in the computer world. For NASA to give India prime data showing how to get to the moon well I do not think it will happen unless, well, I just don't think so. Everything from nationalistic tendencies, to the fact we have spent tens of billion of dollars and well it is our stuff. If India gave ten or twenty billion dollars to the ISS program and had another ten or twenty billion dollars to comit to a moon project and had a rocket with a proven, dependable track record they would get more attention from us and no doubt the Russians.
Perhaps the folks at NASA have been thinking about this and it is no big suprise, three days to the moon, extended weeks with out support from earth(the present ISS)and what is waiting for us (I am sure we can not comprehend at the moment)says we need to go back to the moon. Having lunar operations under the surface is a great benifit to less wear on structures and increased safty from constant exposure to open space. Rescue would need to be considered but so far our fatal errors have been in land based testing and reentry to earth. IT will be the astronauts who will get us there(practicly and inspirationly), more so the ones who landed on the moon and were part of the program in the 60's and 70's. Their words and descriptions of their space experence are magic, if they were talking about something as simple as connection two wires I could easily listen for hours, hell days, weeks. I have a great deal of praise for the present astronauts, however I am sure they would agree it is time to stop going in circles (orbits) as a deffinition of our manned space exploration. OF course money will be a big factor but gold comes in more than one color, and once it is found on the moon.....
A very interesting show I watched a while ago talked about how the local police departments (city, county, state) are evolving into para-military forces, something that the constitution, bill of rights and first ten amendments have a great distain for. Another stastic about if U.S. armed forces were willing to attack American civilians in a internal conflict (possible 10% error) the results were 50% yes. The history channel had a interesting show about SPARTA The greatest warriors of their times and some of the major reasons why they became extinct. one reason was they did not know what to do with a no-war (peace) situation, so they would start another war, another reason and probably the biggest one is that they pissed of their neighbors and allies for no apparent reason other than they felt like it (and lack of forsight).
"Right now we have 10 democrat presidential candidates that are so blinded by hatred and partisanship that the are hoping our economy gets worse and we fail in Iraq"....Do you really think that if you met one of the democrat candidates and said to him/her "You are blinded by hatred" that it really would make any sense? I think not.
Actually, even if you do not believe in astrology, which does not bother me one way or the other we might as well get some facts strait, astrologers so not read cards, they read charts. Carl Jung had some interestings things to say about astrology something like "I am not sure what is happening (about astrological readings) but something is happening."
I am curious, which(european) countries outlaw firearms, I so not know of any, perhaps they are post eastern bloc countries, they had other ways to keep down crime, intense repression of all freedoms. As far as I know target shooting,shooting matches/competition hunting, and some private collecting, though with restrictions (compared to U.S.) are allowed in europe.
I see the point you make, thanks for your reply.
unless it is benign most of the time having vunerability to cancer (I would think) would end a species long before it had a chance to exist for millions of years.The theory of survival of a species is pretty tough to major faults. A baby elephant (chuckle)born with one leg shorter does not start a herd of elephants with the same likness it gets eaten. If the food of a duck bill hurts the duckbill it seem to me like a couple of generations before the end. X-raying rocks that look like bones can tell a lot but it seem like a jump to cancer is to soon. Perhaps for protection the baby duckbills were hatched on a ledge then had to hop down resuluting in a high percentage of minor fractures. There is a species of water fowl (actually I think they are ducks)that puah their (too small to learn to fly) young from the protecting hights down small(Moss and grass covered) cliffs and rocky paths, the young bounce like rubber balls and most of them make it (fox and wolves get a few)perhaps some/most of them have small fractures that would show up in their bone structures as adults.
Water (drinking) will be a very big issue espically who owns how much of a large river as it goes through several countries. There is an interesting approach to water in the highlands of peru, they have mist nets that catch the morning dew. with some moderen adaption they can actually get enough to drink and store.