Well, first of all they are dealing with two very large and respected companies: IBM and Fujitsu.
Secondly, if you ever read a MS EULA, they blatenly say that you have no accountablility from them for any damages their products cause to your or your business. If they had gone with MS, and the OS had "eaten" the payroll system, MS would try to help of course, but there would be no legal recourses for the government to use to offset the cost of the damages (even though MS could pay for them out of pocket no problem). The same is with OSS: no implied warrenty. But since this is a big government contract, the two businesses, IBM and Fujitsu, will probably be held accountable for how their systems behave.
Add on top of that the tendency of this administration to make everything from the terrorist watch lists to what GW had in his morning coffee classified, and you won't even be able to ask for the information on yourself to make sure that it is accurate! And god help you if you do find an error and try to get it fixed!
The government and large companies in this country/world are full of beuracraies. As such, their goals are mainly to stay in existance and either stay or climb in power. If those two goals are met, they are happy and won't do anything else. Having these weak points pointed out is the equivalent of putting the top beuracrats in the spot light and telling them to explain why they made the wrong choice. This threatens their power and/or their positions. To fix these errors would be to admit they were wrong, which would also reduce their power and/or position. The only option they see is to make the person with the spot light go away, because if no one knows it's a problem, no one will blame them or threaten their power and/or position. If we want these fixed, we have to make it look good for their power/position to get them fixed, not a threat.
If the current administration can use the term "Post 9-11" to basically get whatever they want passed/enacted/bombed, then we should too.
In this Post 9-11 world, the cost of fixing the vulnerabilities is nowhere near the expense that would be created if they were exploited by the Bad Guys. Just don't buy another stealth bomber or two (those things are too damn expensive IMO) and we'll have all the money we need.
I did use my brain. But I'm still using the 3.4 beta release, so it doesn't catch everything. I'm waiting for service pack 4 before I upgrade my brain to the new 5.0 kernel.;P
I think that's a verying good point! MS does NOT make their money from the individual consumer. They make it from the corporate sales and the large OEMs like Dell. If they are charging so little to OEMs but so much to consumers, they could probably drop the consumer price down to $50 for XP Pro and find the piracy rate dropping! Who here wouldn't buy a legal copy of XP Pro for $50? And wouldn't you not mind the bugs as much, concidering how much you had payed for it?
You mean there is actually someone out there trying to inforce the MS penalties?!?!?!?! I thought everyone knew they were all just a big joke and it was back to business as usually for Microsoft.
Here's why:
Japan has a HUGE CE market(just look at all the cell phones!). If Linux becomes THE standard embedded OS, it gains a lot of validation and respect from the rest of the CE market in the world (like the US). Once it's proven that Linux is a stable, scalable OS it will be viewed for other tasks as well, one of which will be in large supercomputers. See, all this goes to changing the view of Linux from "that other OS" to "the OS of choice". That would mean more adoption of Linux and less Unix sales. Everything has to start small before they can get big.
Or let's extend this to a large company, say 60,000 employees. You build new Windows computers from a standard build hosted on the network... just like Linux. You get some access to the source code for Windows and IE so you can make your own changes... just like Linux and Mozilla. You can blast the new updates out to all the computers in the company... just like Linux (there are ways, I've seen it:)).
Now that we know you can do they same with Linux and Windows, let's look at the specific problem of a Mozilla bug and an IE bug.
You get an IE bug that causes all the IEs in the company to not reach your Payroll system, making it unable to submit timecards. So you open up the IE code and start to work at tracking down the problem. Since it's your own build, you don't have much support except some from MS, but they handed you the code because you paid $$$$$$$$$$ and were told you are on your own. After many many days (or weeks), the bug is solved, the patch is pushed out, and everything is rosy.
Same thing with Mozilla now. First thing you do is check bugzilla and see if the bug is already known. If it is, and their is a work about, and even code!, roll the change up and push out the update. If the bug is not solved, or is not known, add a new entry or add to the existing one with what you know. Then site down to solve the problem much like you did for IE. Expect that you have the IT staff + the mozilla community working on it, not just he IT staff. If someone else figures out the solution, roll it up and patch. If you figure it out, post the solution so no one else has to go through what you just did, roll in up and patch.
The worst case for both IE and Mozilla is that you have to spend a significant amount of time diving through code solving the problem. The best case for IE is that it doesn't take long to find the bug. The best case for Mozilla is that the solution was already on the web, and the entire thing just takes a day to get EVERYONE working again. Now factor into the picture cost. For the MS path, you have to pay MS for the code which is very expensive. For the Linux/Mozilla path, the code is free:) Guess who wins on the bottem line in the end?
I think just a handful of people, say those in DC with power right now, to start viewing and treating others with respect and dignity to make a visible different in how the US is viewed.
Really? Email me and tell me more about what is wrong, I'll see if I can help.
This is what use true "linux cheerleaders" do: we like to help. It might be that you have weird hardware or miss-detected hardware that it confusing Linux. I've personally never had a problem with Redhat right out of the box, but that's because I'm using very standard equipment (not old and even some fairly new stuff).
IIRC, there was this little trial a few years back about something similar to this. Something about a large software company that was using its monopoly illegally to remove all hope for competition. It seemed to be big news, and then it just suddently disappeared. I wonder what ever happened to that company? What was its name...
I've experienced the same thing. People use to just roll their eyes and drift off into dream land as soon as I would say the word Linux. Now, these same people are asking me a lot of questions about Linux and how they could switch over. I think the average Joe is finally fed up with Microsoft and is looking for a replacement. When friends that don't even have computers start to ask me about Linux, I know that we have been doing the right thing and the change is a comin!
Linux may lack the video editing tools that are present in the Windows world, but there are projects out there working on them. I personally use Kino for the small jobs I have, and it does the job.
create artwork
Two words: The Gimp. Very powerful. Very supported. And free. There are many other programs out there, but The Gimp is the most known. Some compare it to Photoshop.
manage source code
This is where Linux shines! It was created by hackers, for hackers, and as such has a great history with development and development tools. I'm constantly suprised that more people don't develope for Linux since it comes with every kind of development tool most will ever need. CVS, IDEs, compilers, linkers, debuggers... Linux has it all and for free!
create product to send out to clients
That depends on the product. Where I work, the Windows boxes are nothing more than a way to use the Exchange Server (which the open source world really needs to come up with a replacement for) and maybe a few office documents. The real work is done on Linux and Unix boxes. Everyone here who is part of the core revenue stream works entirely on Linux. It's more secure, free, and easier to manage when you have thousands of servers. So, as far as producing a product to sell, Linux is definately ready, and has been for a while.
Maybe it's time you actually try doing something real on Linux. I'd think you'd be suprised by how well it works.
The whole point was that it gives too much power to judges, who aren't always up on the latest scientific theories or even intelligent about science in the first place. When one person suddenly has the power to dismiss evidence without any reason or process, you remove a check and balance. Suddenly the door is open for self-serving justice with little to no legal recourses for those who can and will be hurt by it. It's the same as the PHBs of the world being allowed to make engineering descisions when they understand nothing about what is going on. Let the judges make legal descisions and let the scientists make scientific descisions.
Right, NASA has done a lot of good. But that doesn't mean someone new can't come in and try somethings that haven't been done before. NASA is a big buaracratic government agency and can't move as quick nor take the kind of risks that an independant wealthy person can.
I do realize how complicated the shuttle is. I also know that they are required to take the entire thing apart after it returns from space, requalify each piece, and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. This makes it MORE expensive than just building a new one from scratch! The shuttle is about as reusable as a car that has to be rebuilt every night.
NASA did do good work, 30 years ago, but they haven't done much of anything since. When NASA was founded in the 1960's (could be wrong, could have been in the 50's, so don't hold me to this), they went from capsule style launching to putting a man on the moon to shuttle launching in about 20 years. But since that time, they haven't done anything new. Sure, there have been plans to goto Mars, or build a habitat on the moon. But none of these projects were explored. So, instead of spending their budget on pushing further into space, maybe even grabing an asteroid for mining, they decided to stay at home, doing nothing more than launching expensive shuttles to perform some experiments. My tax dollars are higher because NASA has refused to scrap the shuttle. If they had actually spent the time to test/build some of these new designs, we would have much cheaper space flight.
Yes, but it never moves beyond that point. We've seen this with NASA. The entire country and world were awed by putting a man on the moon. But have we done anything since? Nope. NASA just sits there, never doing anything that will advance humanity into a space faring people. The awe has long since worn off. Time to let someone new give it a shot.
I guess you haven't watched NASA for the past 30 years. We still use the same Shuttles. We have seen MANY great new spacecraft designs, but they were never explored because of all the buracracy invloved.
There was an article in the latest Wired that talked about this. These millionars are building reusable space craft that are cheap and effective and actually made with modern ideas. They will most likely be the ones to bring us, the average citizen, into space. Let them do the research, because in the end they will want to turn around and sell it on the open market, creating practicle space travel.
Slashdot Mirror
Well, first of all they are dealing with two very large and respected companies: IBM and Fujitsu.
Secondly, if you ever read a MS EULA, they blatenly say that you have no accountablility from them for any damages their products cause to your or your business. If they had gone with MS, and the OS had "eaten" the payroll system, MS would try to help of course, but there would be no legal recourses for the government to use to offset the cost of the damages (even though MS could pay for them out of pocket no problem). The same is with OSS: no implied warrenty. But since this is a big government contract, the two businesses, IBM and Fujitsu, will probably be held accountable for how their systems behave.
Add on top of that the tendency of this administration to make everything from the terrorist watch lists to what GW had in his morning coffee classified, and you won't even be able to ask for the information on yourself to make sure that it is accurate! And god help you if you do find an error and try to get it fixed!
The one in my great home state: Oregon - The Silicon Forest :)
The government and large companies in this country/world are full of beuracraies. As such, their goals are mainly to stay in existance and either stay or climb in power. If those two goals are met, they are happy and won't do anything else. Having these weak points pointed out is the equivalent of putting the top beuracrats in the spot light and telling them to explain why they made the wrong choice. This threatens their power and/or their positions. To fix these errors would be to admit they were wrong, which would also reduce their power and/or position. The only option they see is to make the person with the spot light go away, because if no one knows it's a problem, no one will blame them or threaten their power and/or position. If we want these fixed, we have to make it look good for their power/position to get them fixed, not a threat.
If the current administration can use the term "Post 9-11" to basically get whatever they want passed/enacted/bombed, then we should too.
In this Post 9-11 world, the cost of fixing the vulnerabilities is nowhere near the expense that would be created if they were exploited by the Bad Guys. Just don't buy another stealth bomber or two (those things are too damn expensive IMO) and we'll have all the money we need.
I did use my brain. But I'm still using the 3.4 beta release, so it doesn't catch everything. I'm waiting for service pack 4 before I upgrade my brain to the new 5.0 kernel. ;P
I think that's a verying good point! MS does NOT make their money from the individual consumer. They make it from the corporate sales and the large OEMs like Dell. If they are charging so little to OEMs but so much to consumers, they could probably drop the consumer price down to $50 for XP Pro and find the piracy rate dropping! Who here wouldn't buy a legal copy of XP Pro for $50? And wouldn't you not mind the bugs as much, concidering how much you had payed for it?
I could think of a few choice places I'd like to slap them :)
They've already produced the pinicle of MS software that intigrates with Windows: IIS :)
You mean there is actually someone out there trying to inforce the MS penalties?!?!?!?! I thought everyone knew they were all just a big joke and it was back to business as usually for Microsoft.
If you think the other inmates treat the child molesters bad, just think what they'll do to the spammers :)
Here's why: Japan has a HUGE CE market(just look at all the cell phones!). If Linux becomes THE standard embedded OS, it gains a lot of validation and respect from the rest of the CE market in the world (like the US). Once it's proven that Linux is a stable, scalable OS it will be viewed for other tasks as well, one of which will be in large supercomputers. See, all this goes to changing the view of Linux from "that other OS" to "the OS of choice". That would mean more adoption of Linux and less Unix sales. Everything has to start small before they can get big.
And we wonder why the media blames violence on violent video games.
Or let's extend this to a large company, say 60,000 employees. You build new Windows computers from a standard build hosted on the network... just like Linux. You get some access to the source code for Windows and IE so you can make your own changes... just like Linux and Mozilla. You can blast the new updates out to all the computers in the company... just like Linux (there are ways, I've seen it :)).
:) Guess who wins on the bottem line in the end?
Now that we know you can do they same with Linux and Windows, let's look at the specific problem of a Mozilla bug and an IE bug.
You get an IE bug that causes all the IEs in the company to not reach your Payroll system, making it unable to submit timecards. So you open up the IE code and start to work at tracking down the problem. Since it's your own build, you don't have much support except some from MS, but they handed you the code because you paid $$$$$$$$$$ and were told you are on your own. After many many days (or weeks), the bug is solved, the patch is pushed out, and everything is rosy.
Same thing with Mozilla now. First thing you do is check bugzilla and see if the bug is already known. If it is, and their is a work about, and even code!, roll the change up and push out the update. If the bug is not solved, or is not known, add a new entry or add to the existing one with what you know. Then site down to solve the problem much like you did for IE. Expect that you have the IT staff + the mozilla community working on it, not just he IT staff. If someone else figures out the solution, roll it up and patch. If you figure it out, post the solution so no one else has to go through what you just did, roll in up and patch.
The worst case for both IE and Mozilla is that you have to spend a significant amount of time diving through code solving the problem. The best case for IE is that it doesn't take long to find the bug. The best case for Mozilla is that the solution was already on the web, and the entire thing just takes a day to get EVERYONE working again. Now factor into the picture cost. For the MS path, you have to pay MS for the code which is very expensive. For the Linux/Mozilla path, the code is free
I think just a handful of people, say those in DC with power right now, to start viewing and treating others with respect and dignity to make a visible different in how the US is viewed.
Really? Email me and tell me more about what is wrong, I'll see if I can help.
This is what use true "linux cheerleaders" do: we like to help. It might be that you have weird hardware or miss-detected hardware that it confusing Linux. I've personally never had a problem with Redhat right out of the box, but that's because I'm using very standard equipment (not old and even some fairly new stuff).
IIRC, there was this little trial a few years back about something similar to this. Something about a large software company that was using its monopoly illegally to remove all hope for competition. It seemed to be big news, and then it just suddently disappeared. I wonder what ever happened to that company? What was its name...
I've experienced the same thing. People use to just roll their eyes and drift off into dream land as soon as I would say the word Linux. Now, these same people are asking me a lot of questions about Linux and how they could switch over. I think the average Joe is finally fed up with Microsoft and is looking for a replacement. When friends that don't even have computers start to ask me about Linux, I know that we have been doing the right thing and the change is a comin!
Maybe it's time you actually try doing something real on Linux. I'd think you'd be suprised by how well it works.
The whole point was that it gives too much power to judges, who aren't always up on the latest scientific theories or even intelligent about science in the first place. When one person suddenly has the power to dismiss evidence without any reason or process, you remove a check and balance. Suddenly the door is open for self-serving justice with little to no legal recourses for those who can and will be hurt by it. It's the same as the PHBs of the world being allowed to make engineering descisions when they understand nothing about what is going on. Let the judges make legal descisions and let the scientists make scientific descisions.
Java "sucks ass" on any platform :)
Right, NASA has done a lot of good. But that doesn't mean someone new can't come in and try somethings that haven't been done before. NASA is a big buaracratic government agency and can't move as quick nor take the kind of risks that an independant wealthy person can.
I do realize how complicated the shuttle is. I also know that they are required to take the entire thing apart after it returns from space, requalify each piece, and rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. This makes it MORE expensive than just building a new one from scratch! The shuttle is about as reusable as a car that has to be rebuilt every night.
NASA did do good work, 30 years ago, but they haven't done much of anything since. When NASA was founded in the 1960's (could be wrong, could have been in the 50's, so don't hold me to this), they went from capsule style launching to putting a man on the moon to shuttle launching in about 20 years. But since that time, they haven't done anything new. Sure, there have been plans to goto Mars, or build a habitat on the moon. But none of these projects were explored. So, instead of spending their budget on pushing further into space, maybe even grabing an asteroid for mining, they decided to stay at home, doing nothing more than launching expensive shuttles to perform some experiments. My tax dollars are higher because NASA has refused to scrap the shuttle. If they had actually spent the time to test/build some of these new designs, we would have much cheaper space flight.
Yes, but it never moves beyond that point. We've seen this with NASA. The entire country and world were awed by putting a man on the moon. But have we done anything since? Nope. NASA just sits there, never doing anything that will advance humanity into a space faring people. The awe has long since worn off. Time to let someone new give it a shot.
I guess you haven't watched NASA for the past 30 years. We still use the same Shuttles. We have seen MANY great new spacecraft designs, but they were never explored because of all the buracracy invloved. There was an article in the latest Wired that talked about this. These millionars are building reusable space craft that are cheap and effective and actually made with modern ideas. They will most likely be the ones to bring us, the average citizen, into space. Let them do the research, because in the end they will want to turn around and sell it on the open market, creating practicle space travel.