While I'm Ubuntu/Debian guy already for 6 years, I have huge respect for Mandrake/Mandriva. It was first distribution who wanted to produce first class OS not only for geeks. Problem is - as far as I heard - that they management always sucked. No matter how brilliant engineers worked there, leadership managed to fuck up everything.
I would be sad to let it go, as lot of users still uses it (in my humble opinion, in Europe it's more popular than Fedora), but if it has to - respects, thanks guys for everything. You did really well.
If it sounds like hot air, and feels like hot air, it is definitely hot air. Lot of people are looking to iPad not as next gen tech, but as repeat of iPhone app gold rush. Therefore lot of hype, promises and noise too. Most people who have bought iPad for now are techies and geeks. I really doubt common crowd will buy into it.
Duh, of course, I keep my chance to be very wrong about this:)
Then go for Nokia N900, it's that clever, inteligent and in fact very beautiful geek girl in a block:) She's aint cheep, but comes without strings attached - open and honest as good geek can be.
Well, not exactly. Christianity as itself is staunch denier of killing anyone, it's a sin, pure and simple. However, book is one thing and people with intent are other. Let's say, "you shall not kill" haven't stopped "true" Christians to kill their brothers, to kill nonbelievers, never mind about people who just look or act strange or could be possibly truly inspired by God. And all the time it was claimed that it was done "in the name of God". Go figure. Human nature I guess.
Let's be honest - reason why Christianity is not so violent anymore is that Western society, while still having it's problems, have painfully learned true nature of human being and trying to balance it. That's why we don't have Sharia law, but we have courts. That's why we don't practice blood revenge, but try to work it out with laws. It doesn't work always, but it is not a complete mess either.
Muslims are like Christians in middle ages - they believe their own words and feel they are justified to do anything they want to. What scares me more that they even don't have to explain themselves - if their priest says so, they should carry out order,
In fact, as for someone who has found true reasons behind Christianity it's painful to watch that people try to fit their practical mindsets into something they don't and maybe even don't want to understand. Christianity is about spirituality, but in fact all I see is just using those legend frameworks for something else. Again, human nature I guess.
"They should have thought that before antagonizing over 80% of the tester community with the windows button issue."
Do you have any real proofs for that? No, Ubuntu Forums and LP bug doesn't count as trusted sources, because, as someone said, it have attracted only people who complained (rest of people who didn't saw where problem was obviously didn't saw it as a problem). And when I wanted to vote on Ubuntu Forums that I don't mind buttons being in left side, it was already closed. How convenient.
For me i seems that no one feels desperate - wiki has already 10 people tested X.org bug and reported back, and it was several hours after announcement. Also so far fix seems to be working, so again, no desperation. While I haven't seen any slowdowns, I plan to test it too.
*Warning! Rant!* I'm rarely so harsh in my life, but those complainers gets me to the nerves - so, we have minority who is pissed and crying wolf for every turn on Lucid - big deal. I have *always* thought that buttons should be in the left - and please stop spreading bullshit about accidentally hitting close instead of File menu - first, I tried, it is very hard to do except if you have problems with your motor skills, second, all applications with unsaved stuff warns you that there is unsaved stuff. How do you think new Mac users get used to it? Right, they just use it and after several days there is no big difference. Confusing, huh? Talk about geeks being emotional versus practical. *End of rant*
Said that, I also have hard time to see usability of Ubuntu Brainstorm, as for lot of people it gives false promise that they can drive Ubuntu in that direction they want - it's simply not just so, it's still commercially developed distribution with lot of crowd around it. There never have been promises from Canonical to do different. If you want your idea to succeed, you have to do something about it - do blueprint, do testing, provide documentation, do prototyping. Like it or not, as every open source project, Ubuntu has a do-ocraty. Prove that your ideas are right and worth to think about.
I would argue that Youtube qualifies. But let's see. Also this claim is not binding. In fact, MP3 patent holders had a public pledge of not enforcing patent fees from free software/open source mp3 players, but later changed their mind. So I wouldn't sleep on it.
1) RedHat? 2) IBM? 3) Lot of software companies which main product is open source, but support/training costs money?
It's not matter is your software open source or not, it is how well it blends with other products and how it gives additional sale points. For example, there is Zabbix, very promising web based GPL licensed monitoring system. Company who develop earns their money trough support contracts and training, and while I don't have clear information if they're in black, I know lot of enterprise entities who have bought support, because, yeah, product is that good.
RedHat - again, contracts, support, training. IBM - services, open source as tool to provide solution for customers.
In Oracle scenario - vertical platform with database, hardware and OS. All kind of databases. I actually try to see their problem. Ahh, they used to sell overblown and expensive database once, get fat check for support when customer gets intro trouble twice, and upgrades...sweeeet. Not.
I have no idea why Firefox still fights against the giant, emm, I mean Microsoft and loses money and time on it. I mean, great, geeks have nice browser on Linux, but what about Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, etc. and everything else...emmm there is no anything else that has Internet Explorer support? It's a lost battle.
If I were them...ok, I can't continue this with straight face.
I have question - why do you ask? Mozilla can't distribute H.264, period. Not in this, nor in parallel universe (assuming that they have softpatents too). What is left for them? Theora is here and while some of cool guys don't use, I and lot of geeks do. It is functional, it is usable. So why do you care? It's their decision.
If you don't dig reasons why open source community sometimes do things they do - fine. If it won't succeed in overtaking H.264 - fine. But you have to think about that there never be one, holy video format. That there will be multiple competitive ones. Theora suits very good for distributing content where you need to avoid to touch softpatents (ok, some people insist that there should be some threats but it's not in the open like MPEG-4, which has special agency who collects royality). H.264 is and probably will be used for distributing lot of commercial videos where distributor already paid royalties. There comes Dirac.
And in the end - open source has always been some kind of underdog, so fighting instead of accepting defeat is in our blood.
"My main problem with most music player software today is the idea of a 'media library'. In order to play a file, you first have to put it in the library. I understand such a database has its benefits, but to me it is unnecessary complication of a simple operation. In fact, I do have a custom script for managing music files burnt to DVDs, but in the unix spirit I like to keep thing separate, so I am free to use different players."
Well, Rhythmbox "Library" is nothing more than manually changable path to folder where all your music are stored. Then it does fast tag reading and uses kernel notification services to get new tracks when they are added. No special treatement, point to your music directory and it just works.
So far on Linux desktop there have been three excelent iTunes like media players - Rhythmbox, Banshee and Amarok (last one mostly after features not gui). All three players excels in different ways, but what's important - they just work and I doubt we need more iTunes type clones in ui and functionality for Linux platform.
I know that Songbird guys are those positively mad people who did huge piece of dirty work to port Gstreamer to Windows and OS X and it shows what's their main priorities are. And that's fine, because Windows and Mac need a nice open source music player too (and ported Gstreamer framework of course).
Answer is simple - Apple fanbois gets nervous. They're done bet on iPhone as "THE smartphone platform" and now they see competition rising...Of course they will try to plaster it. Google has few homeworks to do, but they're definitely on the track with their Droid strategy. iPhone maybe was product of the 2008. Android will be definitely of the 2010 and beyond.
I have never used that button and it has caused confusion of mine several times. I *always* used Ctrl+L. And giving how popular Firefox (or any mainstream web browser as application) is, I think most of users who care knows that Ctrl+L gives you possibility to change location.
Re:The Benefits of Moving Backward
on
Gnome 2.30 Released
·
· Score: 4, Informative
"Gnome also dropped support for XSMP, breaking compatibility with almost any non Gnome app, to do it more like Windows (and a fatuous MS derived use case about closing laptop lids)."
No one dropped it, XSMP code was in terrible state and did more harm than good. There are new gnome session in works for GNOME 3.0 to fix this.
"Then there is a centralised config database."
And it is bad why?:) Not mentioning that it is NOT a binary nightmare which are loaded at startup and leaks memory like hell. It is pure text xml files, with very good descriptions what each feature means. Heck, you can grep them and support user with changing settings from command line! Still, even then apps aren't forced to use gconf/dconf, it is only when you want to be a part of official release.
"And people use Gnome because KDE is too much like Windows (i.e. the default theme has the panel at the bottom)."
How this remotely connects with what you said above? People use GNOME for very different reasons, and I think default position of panels are least thing which makes people to choose one or another.
It's more like maitanance release...and I like it
on
Gnome 2.30 Released
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
I'm GNOME regular since 2003 and all I can say is these 2.x series has been great ride. Yes, there where stuff which were broken, there where people who said that features are taken away, but still, I'm very productive in this desktop and trust me, I have worked with and supported every mainstream and not-so-mainstream desktop under the sun - it is one of the best. Apple gets it first, but GNOME guys cleverfully tries to integrate that stuff what matters. So kudos for all GNOME developers for these series and while I'm still a little bit cautinous about shell, I think it will turn out good in the end (it was quite usable when I tried it during Jaunty).
Beyond usual "small stuff" which is nice to have (like fully working Evince on Windows, giving you good alternative for Adobe Reader or FoxIt), I really like Vinagre improvements. In quite short time, it has become de facto VNC viewer for GNOME platform, and finally there are color bit settings for those with dialups or other slow links.
"So, if (like me) you dread these new buttons, the best thing you could possibly do is to actually get a copy of the Ubuntu beta and try it out; then post, not just opinions, but informed opinions supported by personal experience. "I tried to click on the Edit menu and closed my window" (if that actually happens to you) should be much more persuasive than "I looked at your screen shot and I can already tell I hate it"."
Problem is, it is actually hard to "click on edit menu and close windows", even with buttons on left now (nevermind that practically all apps with not saved stuff will warn you about this). So I think all this boils down "bah, Windows are right, and you are left, and I can't mess my mind like that". This is laughable, because you can change position of buttons with ease. However, I tried to get used to them instead of loathing, and I must admit that it works. Suddenly I don't have to waste my time to find where right top corner is. Suddenly I can close windows faster. It works. Most argument of buttons placement is "hate", so it is emotional, not practical level.
"#Because of the new alternatives system used for nvidia driver packages, the nvidia installer from NVIDIA's website currently doesn't work."
And this affects majority of users how? Ohh right, nothing. Because most of them will use nvidia drivers from repos, including newest ones.
"#The fglrx binary driver for ATI video chipsets does not yet support the X server in Lucid. As a workaround, users should use the open source -ati driver instead."
Well, you have to specify that claim, because a) old cards who are supported by radeon/ati drivers works nicely with 3D b) packages.ubuntu.com shows that fglrx driver version is 8.721, which, according to Google, is prelease of Catalyst 10.4, so it should support newest Xorg and newest ATI cards. ATI support has always be problematic, but for last two years it is mostly territory between radeon and fglrx - t.i. older cards don't make to radeon driver in time for Ubuntu release.
About general state of affairs - I agree, it is not ideal, but for last two releases there have been efforts to stabilize hardware support, so I think Lucid will do quite good in this regard.
At that instant second when you pressed that button named "Publish", you waved away your privacy connected with this media/photos/whatever. No, privacy is not dead. You can't keep privacy if you are publishing something on Internet public resources.
With trying to block it, in the end it will be seen by more people than in first place. For example, I will definitely try to get it when it's released.
If they would be really that innocent they would just shrug off accusations, released their own version in press release and be done with.
Disclaimer: I'm not a US citizen, but I follow US matters very closely.
Personally I never liked this all intellectual property obsession (and who does?) and I think it will destroy America in the end. But how exactly this makes Obama evil? So he fully doesn't fit in your worldview how president should act (hint: abolish wars, copyrights and make socialism real. Ok, last part was joke, laugh. Let's say - "make people's lives better"). Yes, no politican is black/white on issues. Yes, politics are maneuvering and there are little room for clear shots. I know geeks doesn't like that. But I thought that geeks are somehow realistic when talking about expectations. Guess not.
He was kinda pro IP before elections (yes, I read actual program) and this doesn't sound like backpedaling or something. What shall be done to show that ACTA can be very harmful and MPAA/RIAA overstepping their territory to pushing DMCA everywhere. And it should be done in civil manner (for example, some prominent IP opponent first asking for making ACTA process more open). So far there have been serious lack of good sounding "proIP" opponents. Mostly it is us, geeks, and we don't make very good party to cheer for. There should be much bigger campaign of explaining copyright stuff and how it affects your everyday tasks.
In the end, Obama or not Obama, this IP stuff will stay (and no, there is no escape for that with electing right leader) and if we really want something to change, we will have to deal with it.
Slashdot Mirror
While I'm Ubuntu/Debian guy already for 6 years, I have huge respect for Mandrake/Mandriva. It was first distribution who wanted to produce first class OS not only for geeks. Problem is - as far as I heard - that they management always sucked. No matter how brilliant engineers worked there, leadership managed to fuck up everything.
I would be sad to let it go, as lot of users still uses it (in my humble opinion, in Europe it's more popular than Fedora), but if it has to - respects, thanks guys for everything. You did really well.
If it sounds like hot air, and feels like hot air, it is definitely hot air. Lot of people are looking to iPad not as next gen tech, but as repeat of iPhone app gold rush. Therefore lot of hype, promises and noise too. Most people who have bought iPad for now are techies and geeks. I really doubt common crowd will buy into it.
Duh, of course, I keep my chance to be very wrong about this :)
Then go for Nokia N900, it's that clever, inteligent and in fact very beautiful geek girl in a block :) She's aint cheep, but comes without strings attached - open and honest as good geek can be.
Really, if there is distinction, I would like to hear one.
Well, not exactly. Christianity as itself is staunch denier of killing anyone, it's a sin, pure and simple. However, book is one thing and people with intent are other. Let's say, "you shall not kill" haven't stopped "true" Christians to kill their brothers, to kill nonbelievers, never mind about people who just look or act strange or could be possibly truly inspired by God. And all the time it was claimed that it was done "in the name of God". Go figure. Human nature I guess.
Let's be honest - reason why Christianity is not so violent anymore is that Western society, while still having it's problems, have painfully learned true nature of human being and trying to balance it. That's why we don't have Sharia law, but we have courts. That's why we don't practice blood revenge, but try to work it out with laws. It doesn't work always, but it is not a complete mess either.
Muslims are like Christians in middle ages - they believe their own words and feel they are justified to do anything they want to. What scares me more that they even don't have to explain themselves - if their priest says so, they should carry out order,
In fact, as for someone who has found true reasons behind Christianity it's painful to watch that people try to fit their practical mindsets into something they don't and maybe even don't want to understand. Christianity is about spirituality, but in fact all I see is just using those legend frameworks for something else. Again, human nature I guess.
They replaced it with KVM, but it still bears some stigmata in Xen community.
"They should have thought that before antagonizing over 80% of the tester community with the windows button issue."
Do you have any real proofs for that? No, Ubuntu Forums and LP bug doesn't count as trusted sources, because, as someone said, it have attracted only people who complained (rest of people who didn't saw where problem was obviously didn't saw it as a problem). And when I wanted to vote on Ubuntu Forums that I don't mind buttons being in left side, it was already closed. How convenient.
For me i seems that no one feels desperate - wiki has already 10 people tested X.org bug and reported back, and it was several hours after announcement. Also so far fix seems to be working, so again, no desperation. While I haven't seen any slowdowns, I plan to test it too.
*Warning! Rant!*
I'm rarely so harsh in my life, but those complainers gets me to the nerves - so, we have minority who is pissed and crying wolf for every turn on Lucid - big deal. I have *always* thought that buttons should be in the left - and please stop spreading bullshit about accidentally hitting close instead of File menu - first, I tried, it is very hard to do except if you have problems with your motor skills, second, all applications with unsaved stuff warns you that there is unsaved stuff. How do you think new Mac users get used to it? Right, they just use it and after several days there is no big difference. Confusing, huh? Talk about geeks being emotional versus practical.
*End of rant*
Said that, I also have hard time to see usability of Ubuntu Brainstorm, as for lot of people it gives false promise that they can drive Ubuntu in that direction they want - it's simply not just so, it's still commercially developed distribution with lot of crowd around it. There never have been promises from Canonical to do different. If you want your idea to succeed, you have to do something about it - do blueprint, do testing, provide documentation, do prototyping. Like it or not, as every open source project, Ubuntu has a do-ocraty. Prove that your ideas are right and worth to think about.
I would argue that Youtube qualifies. But let's see. Also this claim is not binding. In fact, MP3 patent holders had a public pledge of not enforcing patent fees from free software/open source mp3 players, but later changed their mind. So I wouldn't sleep on it.
Chrome already supports Theora allright.
1) RedHat?
2) IBM?
3) Lot of software companies which main product is open source, but support/training costs money?
It's not matter is your software open source or not, it is how well it blends with other products and how it gives additional sale points. For example, there is Zabbix, very promising web based GPL licensed monitoring system. Company who develop earns their money trough support contracts and training, and while I don't have clear information if they're in black, I know lot of enterprise entities who have bought support, because, yeah, product is that good.
RedHat - again, contracts, support, training. IBM - services, open source as tool to provide solution for customers.
In Oracle scenario - vertical platform with database, hardware and OS. All kind of databases. I actually try to see their problem. Ahh, they used to sell overblown and expensive database once, get fat check for support when customer gets intro trouble twice, and upgrades...sweeeet. Not.
I have no idea why Firefox still fights against the giant, emm, I mean Microsoft and loses money and time on it. I mean, great, geeks have nice browser on Linux, but what about Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista, etc. and everything else...emmm there is no anything else that has Internet Explorer support? It's a lost battle.
If I were them...ok, I can't continue this with straight face.
I have question - why do you ask? Mozilla can't distribute H.264, period. Not in this, nor in parallel universe (assuming that they have softpatents too). What is left for them? Theora is here and while some of cool guys don't use, I and lot of geeks do. It is functional, it is usable. So why do you care? It's their decision.
If you don't dig reasons why open source community sometimes do things they do - fine. If it won't succeed in overtaking H.264 - fine. But you have to think about that there never be one, holy video format. That there will be multiple competitive ones. Theora suits very good for distributing content where you need to avoid to touch softpatents (ok, some people insist that there should be some threats but it's not in the open like MPEG-4, which has special agency who collects royality). H.264 is and probably will be used for distributing lot of commercial videos where distributor already paid royalties. There comes Dirac.
And in the end - open source has always been some kind of underdog, so fighting instead of accepting defeat is in our blood.
Chrome supports Theora too, by the way.
"My main problem with most music player software today is the idea of a 'media library'. In order to play a file, you first have to put it in the library. I understand such a database has its benefits, but to me it is unnecessary complication of a simple operation. In fact, I do have a custom script for managing music files burnt to DVDs, but in the unix spirit I like to keep thing separate, so I am free to use different players."
Well, Rhythmbox "Library" is nothing more than manually changable path to folder where all your music are stored. Then it does fast tag reading and uses kernel notification services to get new tracks when they are added. No special treatement, point to your music directory and it just works.
So far on Linux desktop there have been three excelent iTunes like media players - Rhythmbox, Banshee and Amarok (last one mostly after features not gui). All three players excels in different ways, but what's important - they just work and I doubt we need more iTunes type clones in ui and functionality for Linux platform.
I know that Songbird guys are those positively mad people who did huge piece of dirty work to port Gstreamer to Windows and OS X and it shows what's their main priorities are. And that's fine, because Windows and Mac need a nice open source music player too (and ported Gstreamer framework of course).
Answer is simple - Apple fanbois gets nervous. They're done bet on iPhone as "THE smartphone platform" and now they see competition rising...Of course they will try to plaster it. Google has few homeworks to do, but they're definitely on the track with their Droid strategy. iPhone maybe was product of the 2008. Android will be definitely of the 2010 and beyond.
I have never used that button and it has caused confusion of mine several times. I *always* used Ctrl+L. And giving how popular Firefox (or any mainstream web browser as application) is, I think most of users who care knows that Ctrl+L gives you possibility to change location.
"Gnome also dropped support for XSMP, breaking compatibility with almost any non Gnome app, to do it more like Windows (and a fatuous MS derived use case about closing laptop lids)."
No one dropped it, XSMP code was in terrible state and did more harm than good. There are new gnome session in works for GNOME 3.0 to fix this.
"Then there is a centralised config database."
And it is bad why? :) Not mentioning that it is NOT a binary nightmare which are loaded at startup and leaks memory like hell. It is pure text xml files, with very good descriptions what each feature means. Heck, you can grep them and support user with changing settings from command line! Still, even then apps aren't forced to use gconf/dconf, it is only when you want to be a part of official release.
"And people use Gnome because KDE is too much like Windows (i.e. the default theme has the panel at the bottom)."
How this remotely connects with what you said above? People use GNOME for very different reasons, and I think default position of panels are least thing which makes people to choose one or another.
I'm GNOME regular since 2003 and all I can say is these 2.x series has been great ride. Yes, there where stuff which were broken, there where people who said that features are taken away, but still, I'm very productive in this desktop and trust me, I have worked with and supported every mainstream and not-so-mainstream desktop under the sun - it is one of the best. Apple gets it first, but GNOME guys cleverfully tries to integrate that stuff what matters. So kudos for all GNOME developers for these series and while I'm still a little bit cautinous about shell, I think it will turn out good in the end (it was quite usable when I tried it during Jaunty).
Beyond usual "small stuff" which is nice to have (like fully working Evince on Windows, giving you good alternative for Adobe Reader or FoxIt), I really like Vinagre improvements. In quite short time, it has become de facto VNC viewer for GNOME platform, and finally there are color bit settings for those with dialups or other slow links.
Most of the widgets. Yeah, simple as that.
"So, if (like me) you dread these new buttons, the best thing you could possibly do is to actually get a copy of the Ubuntu beta and try it out; then post, not just opinions, but informed opinions supported by personal experience. "I tried to click on the Edit menu and closed my window" (if that actually happens to you) should be much more persuasive than "I looked at your screen shot and I can already tell I hate it"."
Problem is, it is actually hard to "click on edit menu and close windows", even with buttons on left now (nevermind that practically all apps with not saved stuff will warn you about this). So I think all this boils down "bah, Windows are right, and you are left, and I can't mess my mind like that". This is laughable, because you can change position of buttons with ease. However, I tried to get used to them instead of loathing, and I must admit that it works. Suddenly I don't have to waste my time to find where right top corner is. Suddenly I can close windows faster. It works. Most argument of buttons placement is "hate", so it is emotional, not practical level.
"#Because of the new alternatives system used for nvidia driver packages, the nvidia installer from NVIDIA's website currently doesn't work."
And this affects majority of users how? Ohh right, nothing. Because most of them will use nvidia drivers from repos, including newest ones.
"#The fglrx binary driver for ATI video chipsets does not yet support the X server in Lucid. As a workaround, users should use the open source -ati driver instead."
Well, you have to specify that claim, because a) old cards who are supported by radeon/ati drivers works nicely with 3D b) packages.ubuntu.com shows that fglrx driver version is 8.721, which, according to Google, is prelease of Catalyst 10.4, so it should support newest Xorg and newest ATI cards. ATI support has always be problematic, but for last two years it is mostly territory between radeon and fglrx - t.i. older cards don't make to radeon driver in time for Ubuntu release.
About general state of affairs - I agree, it is not ideal, but for last two releases there have been efforts to stabilize hardware support, so I think Lucid will do quite good in this regard.
Google is somehow partly in this - Chrome supports Theora, but YouTube not (yet). I think one day it will.
At that instant second when you pressed that button named "Publish", you waved away your privacy connected with this media/photos/whatever. No, privacy is not dead. You can't keep privacy if you are publishing something on Internet public resources.
With trying to block it, in the end it will be seen by more people than in first place. For example, I will definitely try to get it when it's released.
If they would be really that innocent they would just shrug off accusations, released their own version in press release and be done with.
Disclaimer: I'm not a US citizen, but I follow US matters very closely.
Personally I never liked this all intellectual property obsession (and who does?) and I think it will destroy America in the end. But how exactly this makes Obama evil? So he fully doesn't fit in your worldview how president should act (hint: abolish wars, copyrights and make socialism real. Ok, last part was joke, laugh. Let's say - "make people's lives better"). Yes, no politican is black/white on issues. Yes, politics are maneuvering and there are little room for clear shots. I know geeks doesn't like that. But I thought that geeks are somehow realistic when talking about expectations. Guess not.
He was kinda pro IP before elections (yes, I read actual program) and this doesn't sound like backpedaling or something. What shall be done to show that ACTA can be very harmful and MPAA/RIAA overstepping their territory to pushing DMCA everywhere. And it should be done in civil manner (for example, some prominent IP opponent first asking for making ACTA process more open). So far there have been serious lack of good sounding "proIP" opponents. Mostly it is us, geeks, and we don't make very good party to cheer for. There should be much bigger campaign of explaining copyright stuff and how it affects your everyday tasks.
In the end, Obama or not Obama, this IP stuff will stay (and no, there is no escape for that with electing right leader) and if we really want something to change, we will have to deal with it.