Mr. Anonymous? I think you need to stop swearing, calm down, and look at a very important question that you (accidentally) raised.
What IS basic infrastructure?
Roads. Sewers. Electricity. Water delivery. Education. Hopefully decent health care. Working law systems. And yes, even something as basic as package delivery. Internet?
See, I run a business. I NEED those things for my business to function, but I'm too small to buy them for everyone, let alone to buy them for myself. I need roads so my workers can get to work. I need roads so I can ship things. I need electricity or my machines can't run. I need water delivery and good sewers so all my customers aren't dying of dysentary. I need basic education so there is a half assedly educated workforce available for me to hire. I really do need decent health care so _I_ don't have to provide it for my workers (god what a headache). I need basic law systems so I can have legal protections or sue someone who tries to take unlawful actions against my business (or me). Package delivery? Yeah, I depend on that. I build widgets. I NEED parts delivered. My business wouldn't exist without the postal service.
Man do I wish internet was a basic infrastructure....
Anyway, if these were provided by private companies, they would be a fucking mess. Just imagine private roads. Multiple roads in parallel, starting, stopping, the legal hassles of right of way, the tolls, fees, the collusion, the even larger tolls and fees... No. It's a nightmare!
So, businesses and individuals NEED the government to create this basic infrastructure. What the poster is saying is even that businesses are attracted to countries that HAVE this infrastructure. I sure wouldn't want to run my business in Somalia, that's for damn sure. Maybe the market is there, but the act of running my business would be far harder due to the lack of infrastructure. Ew. No Thanks.
In short, you benefit so much, and you take it all for granted. That you DO take it for granted is a sign of how WELL that government provided basic infrastructure works. You benefit FAR beyond what taxes you put in because it's a collective effort.
Also, you ignorant twit.... You want to whine about government waste? Sure. Go ahead. But be civil about it. The OP raised a good point, an intelligent point, and you were so busy being angry that you missed it. Calm down and LISTEN next time.
I get my news from: The Economist, RT, the BBC, The Guardian, Slashdot(stop laughing!), The Young Turks (They're usually a day late on flashy news, I mostly watch them for their opinions), The Daily Show, and from listening to NPR and my awesome local radio station. Oh, and several local newsrags that actually have decent local reporting.
Note that none of those is a major TV network. Fuck MSNBC and all the other acronyms I can't remember. None of them provide CONTEXT to the news. "Guy A said this, and Guy B said that." Fine. But it's kind of nice to say also that "95% of the population agrees with Guy A, and Guy B is a raving lunatic"... but they don't do that.
I don't know what other progressives watch. I try to be informed. My opinions are rather formed at this point though. I want things to get better. I want social equality. I want the government to tax us and use that money to provide basic infrastructure. I want my government to not be corrupt. I want a leash on corporate practices.... go make money, but lets not do anything Stupid, OK? I want strong (and simple, I'm a small business owner!) regulations. I want to feel like my representatives actually represent me in Congress. I want an end to stupid fucking wars and I want my tax dollars to not be wasted. I want simple and solid infrastructure that I can use to grow my business, that EVERYONE can use to grow themselves and their endeavors.
Oops, off on a tangent. Anyway. I'm progressive. I don't depend on MSNBC for news at all. Don't even watch it.
"raises no revenue"
Medical device tax? Increased taxes on folks over.. what was it? 200k? 250k? Fail. Even if it didn't raise revenue, which it obviously does, why is that a sign of a broken law? Fail again.
"retitled bill"
I hadn't heard that. I'll look into it.
" force people to hand money to private companies" " 238 years ago"
Do you have car insurance? Did that start 238 years ago? I suppose that's a reference to the start of our country, but that was over high taxes and crappy representation, not being forced to buy something from the East India Trading Company. Fail on every account.
" violates ones privacy" " 9th Amendment"
I'm no constitutional lawyer, but.... I don't think so man. If you don't like the law, ok, but don't pretend that being forced to buy insurance as a member of a giant pool has anything to do with violating your privacy. Fail.
So, basically, all the points you raised are completely Fail.
You expect me to believe that a laid off (for "a while") student HAD insurance? Bwaaahahahahah. Not unless it was through the school.
Then you trot out the shit about medical devices (A link to an obamacare tax).
Then you throw out some FUD about how you, a laid off student, might not count for poverty levels, so you probably won't get the subsidy.... If you're really a laid off worker turned Student, you're about the one person who's absolutely going to get the stupid subsidy...
Then some more FUD about being forced to enroll in medicaid. And THEN some more about free phones?
OK Mr. AC. I think you're a republican shill. You've hit every talking point, and done so badly. I hope you get fired, because you're being WAY too obvious. In your defense, at least you didn't mention the muslim thing....
No dude, you really don't know how insurance works. It's a pool. It covers everyone. Everyone pays. You're not buying health care. You're buying minimized risk.
Also, seriously, you don't appear to respect women very much. You should think about that.
And yes, I CAN explain why your previous insurance polices didn't have you pay for female type needs... It's because your old insurance sucked ass. The new Obamacare polices are an attempt to cover EVERYONE. If we're going to cover everyone, everyone has to pay. I tell you what... Forget women's needs. Why do you pay for Old People? That's not your needs... Why do you pay for Sick People. That's not YOUR needs. Oh yeah, that's because that's how insurance works.
What you want is to cover/insure yourself. Then you won't be paying for all these sick people, old people, and women. Of course, you'll be screwed if you get hit by a car.... Which is the point of insurance.
Or maybe he's saying that just because there's a finite number of bitcoins, that doesn't mean you can't split them a bajillion ways.
Everyone seems to think that bitcoins can't have inflation.... Every value is based on perception and trust. If I can buy a candy bar for.5 bitcoins today (I made that up), the market may shift and tomorrow it will be 1 bitcoin. Who knows?
Same thing with gold. I listen to all my conservative friends ramble on about gold as if there'd be no inflation if we used it... but it's STILL just perception and trust. The value of gold can shift. It went up when Obama became president, and not because the supply magically went down..... Heh.
Anyway, perception of value can change. And just because you can't make more bitcoins, doesn't mean you can't split them forever. It's kind of the same thing really. People don't seem to get that. Or, perhaps I completely misunderstood what he was trying to say.
Or, maybe the whole point of insurance is that everyone pays a little, and those that need it take out. With a large enough pool, everyone is covered. Yes. Healthy people pay for sick people. That's kind of the point......
Or, he got it going, and once it reached a certain size, he did the paperwork. Also, if you're going to start a light building company, it would make sense to build to code. It's a good idea. It exists for a reason. I assure you, none of us want people to build structures all willy nilly. Nooooooo. Bad Idea.
You and I (and everyone else) both know that the cops raiding some little girl's lemonade stand is the EXCEPTION, not the rule. No one's going to bust your balls over making a few bucks tending a few yards, or building fences for people (my buddy does this on the side), or fixing up people's bikes (another buddy does this on the side).
Yes. Once the lemonade stand get to a certain size and you want to turn it into a fully fledge lemonade/smoothy food cart, it's time for a business license, a food handlers permit, and perhaps an inspection. Big woopty doo.
It IS quite possible to start a business without doing paperwork. I think you just hate The Gubmint, and look for excuses to blame everything on it, taking exceptions as rules because it fits your world view.
Incidentally, I'm starting a small business. I haven't filled out any paperwork. And I won't until I start selling enough to gauge my market and see if it's worth it. No one's going to bust my chops.
Uhm. If that's supposed to sarcastically funny, it failed. Badly. If you actually meant that.... Wow. It's time to take a step back, breathe, take a vacation, and put a defibrillator on your empathy, 'cause it's hav'in problems....
Oh, and one more thing... I have a HSA. I have a high deductable insurance($2000/year).. and oddly enough, I still have it. Obamacare didn't kill it. Still have my insurance.
"I'm all in favor of chicks doing birth control, but personally, the pill isn't gonna do me any good. Why should that be on MY policy?"
1. Chicks hate it when you call them Chicks. The "doing birth control" doesn't make you sound like a winner either....
2. Are you planning on having sex sometime? Then the Pill is indeed going to do you some good. I'll give you a tip (phrasing!)... Your chances of having sex will go up if you don't spout this stupid crap in front of women.
3. The whole point of insurance is to minimize risk. Everyone pays a little bit, and the money is doled out to the few that need it. You're not paying FOR YOU. You're paying a little bit for EVERONE, and getting covered just in case something bad happens to you.
3 again. Just in case you didn't get that. With insurance, you're not paying for healthcare. You're paying for reduced risk.
50% of humans are women (Not "chicks"), and we all benefit from them being able to have sex without worrying about pregnancy. So stop being an ass, shut up, and go get laid. And seriously, lose the attitude, it'll help.
I can't believe I'm responding to an AC.... but I hate this ideological shit.
I'm a progressive. I believe capitalism can build good things if government creates the basic infrastructure so that people can get on with their lives. I believe !@#$ing selfish "I got mine, fuck everyone else" Righties take that basic infrastructure for granted.
"negative effects of govt programs which have fostered dependency" You're pulling that out of your ass. I grew up POOOORRRRR... we got WIC, food stamps, lunch assistance. I got Pell grants to go to college. I assure you, I've paid back every dime and then some through my taxes. That's how the system is supposed to work, that's how it often works. You give someone a hand up, and they pay it back. Yes, there are exceptions. No, they are not the rule.
"the incentive is to wean those adults off of govt programs" Like what already happens?
"inherently destructive and dysfunctional as Obamacare" How would you know? We've barely started the damn thing. And what's so !@#$ing wrong about making everyone buy medical insurance? Where's the government takeover? What's the problem here?
"The moral hazards of charity"/eyeroll
"It is extremely difficult to reintroduce the shame and stigma of receiving charity " We're in the biggest recession since the !#$!ing Great Depression. Now is a fine time for a little charity. So fuck off. And we all know the "recovery" is fine at the top, but it's not over down here at the bottom.
"wholly dependent on govt programs" I hate this one most of all. My neighbors are Poor. 30 years old, 5 kids. They are the nicest people on the planet, they give, they have a wonderful family.... and they work HARD. Harder than me, harder than you. I grew up poor. I've seen it. Poor people work HARD. Often they have 2 or 3 jobs, they wake up early, the work late, they go to work sick so they don't get canned. Their KIDS work under the table! Fuck your myth of government dependance. If that family is getting help from the government, I'm happy for them.
If companies would pay a damn decent wage in this country, they wouldn't have to work so hard. But all those chain stores (which seems to be most of our economy these days) can pay low wages, and that's that. The companies COUNT on the government to pick up their slack with assistance.
"progressive political ideology seeks to eliminate all societal standards of behavior and the very concept of of personal responsibility" I never knew I was such a bastard. Here I thought I was for building basic infrastructure and getting the hell out of the way so everyone can make a buck and get on with their lives. I thought I wanted well regulated economic institutions, so we all can get on with our businesses without fearing undue risk with our protected money. Here I thought I just wanted justice for those that fucked our entire economy. Here I thought I just wanted the government to mind the constitution and not wiretap folks without at LEAST a rubber stamped warrant.
If progressives have one weakness, it's that we want things to be FAIR. We want a level playing field. Joe Millionaire Senator Buddy shouldn't be able to murder and hooker and get away with it just because he's rich. Rich people SHOULD pay more taxes ON THEIR EXCESSIVE wealth, because by the nature of DOING BUSINESS, they USE MORE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE and BENEFIT FROM IT MORE than we little poeple do.
What bastards, us progressives.
The whole post above is an ideological rant that demonizes "the other guy". It's all too common, and I apologize for my own part in it above. Most Righties just want to be left alone. Everyone hates taxes. Everyone hates beaurocratic stupidity and money wasting. People feel powerless these days and it's too easy to blame "Them". But please, everyone, don't demonize the other side.
Also, I'm kind of hating how all these stories lately digress into ideological wars instead of commenting on the original topic. Kentucky built something good, to help it's citizens. Good for them! I hope it works.
Some of us don't have a kneejerk reaction of "government bad!". Our local PUD works so well I don't think about it most of the time. The roads work, the cops come when I dial 911, the fire department is right there if I need them. What are you complaining about? Oh right.... You're taking it for granted because IT WORKS.
I can't believe you got +5 insightful for making up some really stupid statistics about entire swaths of people in an incredibly racist manner. You have no idea what 90% of Pakistani muslims think about blasphemy. But using your method, I think 90% of Christians support abortion clinic bombers....... (which is obviously a stupid thing to say).
I know several muslims. They're all very nice, and they don't deserve your drivel.
Snowden's been very careful about what he let out, and he gave it to some damn fine journalists who have been careful about what they let out.
I would say the value to his cause, of letting poeple know the NSA is spying on them, is very well served by revealing that the NSA is.... spying on poeple.
I dislike how folks jump on the Government Bad train automatically...
Brazil has problems with it's economy. Might it be the crippling poverty? The Favelas? The drug crime perpetuated by American noses? Might it be the LACK of a stable government, as Brazil has gone through periods of autocratic, military, and democratic rule, supposedly aided by the CIA back in that military coup in 60's I might add. Nope nope.... Having the US prop up a bunch of !@#$ers that put in place crony practices just because they're friendly to US policies wouldn't damage a country long term....
Ahem. I am not denying that Brazil has cronyism and kickbacks. Shit. I'm American. WE have cronyism and kickbacks in spades. I'm AM saying that the reason they are lagging economically might be sliiiiiighly more nuanced than "Government Bad". Crippling poverty, drug cartels, and a lack of a stable government for the last couple hundred years makes things a bit challenging.
I guess I am also saying that cronyism and kickbacks don't necessarily equate to lagging economically. Our economy grows while we have cronyism and kickbacks galore. Ask a defense contractor.:D
Now THAT is how to do it. Thank you ak3ldama for giving me more information and correcting me. Thank you for the link. I shall correct my thinking and keep that in mind for the future.
It's still better than just GIVING them the money though./shrug
I have to agree that the discussion does really seem like "lets regulate the banks that took huge gambles with government insured money, that's a bad idea" Vs. "Obama is a socialist muslim and all government is bad".
It's hard to have a grown up discussion with hyperbole. I know many equate the left saying "Damnit, the right is bat shit crazy" with the right saying "Obama and the democrats are executing a long term plan to crash the government and destroy the US dollar so the UN can take over the world!", but I don't equate those two. The right ARE bat shit crazy.
Obama is not a socialist. Even if he WAS a muslim, who cares, religious freedom. I like government. I like public roads, police, the fire department, environmental regulations, etc, and I dread those things being provided by private companies who would do it SO BADLY. I'm not a communist. I want a mix. The government should provide basic infrastructure and private businesses and people should be free to use that infrastructure to get on with their lives and buy crap they don't need. Reid and Pelosi are pansies, who haven't championed a good leftist cause in... Ever? Obamacare is boring, and not a government takeover of anything. Neither party has done a thing to really fix the budget in decades, and I'm sick of all of them crying about the debt that THEY racked up. Etc...
Note: I can tell you what Obama and the democrats are doing that's wrong. There's plenty of things I don't like. Plent of REAL things. Our government is broken and the Dems are corporatist pansies. I in no way think the R's do all the bad things and the D's are shiny paragons of virtue. That's not true.
Also, I totally want medicare extended all the way down. Lets just cover everyone. It's far more efficient. Yes, I am an American and I want a single payer insurance system.
Uhm. Wait. Sanity check. Obama did NOT nationalize the auto industry or the healthcare industry.
I know you're refering to the government buying a controlling interest of GM stock. GM was in trouble and needed some money to stay afloat. The government bought a ton of stock (which I happen to think is better than just GIVING them money), it did NOT tell the company how to run, and then it SOLD the stock(I think even at a profit) once GM was on it's feet again. It did all this to prevent GM from folding and causing huge job losses.
I also know that you're refering to Obamacare, AKA, the ACA. I WISH the government had nationalized the healthcare industry, but mandating that you buy insurance from a NON GOVERNMENT insurance company is a far cry from nationalizing anything.
So, basically, you're so wrong we can't even talk to you. Obama didn't nationalize squat. Look to Venezeula if you want to see a country nationalizing private industries. There's none of that here. Your belief is a fantasy. Kool-Aide indeed.
Slashdot Mirror
It is your fault for quoting Newsmax. :D
Seriously, look a the link itself. "europe-immigration-muslim-obama". I mean.... come on... sheesh.
"A couple of airplanes full of American prisoners could probably take over Sweden."
Well, that's obviously not true. But assuming it was, what would that tell us? What would that prove?
I think your statement tells us more about you than about Sweden. And I think it tells us that you're an idiot.
Mr. Anonymous? I think you need to stop swearing, calm down, and look at a very important question that you (accidentally) raised.
What IS basic infrastructure?
Roads. Sewers. Electricity. Water delivery. Education. Hopefully decent health care. Working law systems. And yes, even something as basic as package delivery. Internet?
See, I run a business. I NEED those things for my business to function, but I'm too small to buy them for everyone, let alone to buy them for myself. I need roads so my workers can get to work. I need roads so I can ship things. I need electricity or my machines can't run. I need water delivery and good sewers so all my customers aren't dying of dysentary. I need basic education so there is a half assedly educated workforce available for me to hire. I really do need decent health care so _I_ don't have to provide it for my workers (god what a headache). I need basic law systems so I can have legal protections or sue someone who tries to take unlawful actions against my business (or me). Package delivery? Yeah, I depend on that. I build widgets. I NEED parts delivered. My business wouldn't exist without the postal service.
Man do I wish internet was a basic infrastructure....
Anyway, if these were provided by private companies, they would be a fucking mess. Just imagine private roads. Multiple roads in parallel, starting, stopping, the legal hassles of right of way, the tolls, fees, the collusion, the even larger tolls and fees... No. It's a nightmare!
So, businesses and individuals NEED the government to create this basic infrastructure. What the poster is saying is even that businesses are attracted to countries that HAVE this infrastructure. I sure wouldn't want to run my business in Somalia, that's for damn sure. Maybe the market is there, but the act of running my business would be far harder due to the lack of infrastructure. Ew. No Thanks.
In short, you benefit so much, and you take it all for granted. That you DO take it for granted is a sign of how WELL that government provided basic infrastructure works. You benefit FAR beyond what taxes you put in because it's a collective effort.
Also, you ignorant twit.... You want to whine about government waste? Sure. Go ahead. But be civil about it. The OP raised a good point, an intelligent point, and you were so busy being angry that you missed it. Calm down and LISTEN next time.
Also, we all pay taxes. Seriously, quit whining.
This is a good question. I'm a progressive.
I get my news from: The Economist, RT, the BBC, The Guardian, Slashdot(stop laughing!), The Young Turks (They're usually a day late on flashy news, I mostly watch them for their opinions), The Daily Show, and from listening to NPR and my awesome local radio station. Oh, and several local newsrags that actually have decent local reporting.
Note that none of those is a major TV network. Fuck MSNBC and all the other acronyms I can't remember. None of them provide CONTEXT to the news. "Guy A said this, and Guy B said that." Fine. But it's kind of nice to say also that "95% of the population agrees with Guy A, and Guy B is a raving lunatic"... but they don't do that.
I don't know what other progressives watch. I try to be informed. My opinions are rather formed at this point though. I want things to get better. I want social equality. I want the government to tax us and use that money to provide basic infrastructure. I want my government to not be corrupt. I want a leash on corporate practices.... go make money, but lets not do anything Stupid, OK? I want strong (and simple, I'm a small business owner!) regulations. I want to feel like my representatives actually represent me in Congress. I want an end to stupid fucking wars and I want my tax dollars to not be wasted. I want simple and solid infrastructure that I can use to grow my business, that EVERYONE can use to grow themselves and their endeavors.
Oops, off on a tangent. Anyway. I'm progressive. I don't depend on MSNBC for news at all. Don't even watch it.
Uhhmm...
"raises no revenue"
Medical device tax? Increased taxes on folks over.. what was it? 200k? 250k? Fail. Even if it didn't raise revenue, which it obviously does, why is that a sign of a broken law? Fail again.
"retitled bill"
I hadn't heard that. I'll look into it.
" force people to hand money to private companies" " 238 years ago"
Do you have car insurance? Did that start 238 years ago? I suppose that's a reference to the start of our country, but that was over high taxes and crappy representation, not being forced to buy something from the East India Trading Company. Fail on every account.
" violates ones privacy" " 9th Amendment"
I'm no constitutional lawyer, but.... I don't think so man. If you don't like the law, ok, but don't pretend that being forced to buy insurance as a member of a giant pool has anything to do with violating your privacy. Fail.
So, basically, all the points you raised are completely Fail.
I call BS. I think you made it all up.
You expect me to believe that a laid off (for "a while") student HAD insurance? Bwaaahahahahah. Not unless it was through the school.
Then you trot out the shit about medical devices (A link to an obamacare tax).
Then you throw out some FUD about how you, a laid off student, might not count for poverty levels, so you probably won't get the subsidy.... If you're really a laid off worker turned Student, you're about the one person who's absolutely going to get the stupid subsidy...
Then some more FUD about being forced to enroll in medicaid. And THEN some more about free phones?
OK Mr. AC. I think you're a republican shill. You've hit every talking point, and done so badly. I hope you get fired, because you're being WAY too obvious. In your defense, at least you didn't mention the muslim thing....
No dude, you really don't know how insurance works. It's a pool. It covers everyone. Everyone pays. You're not buying health care. You're buying minimized risk.
Also, seriously, you don't appear to respect women very much. You should think about that.
And yes, I CAN explain why your previous insurance polices didn't have you pay for female type needs... It's because your old insurance sucked ass. The new Obamacare polices are an attempt to cover EVERYONE. If we're going to cover everyone, everyone has to pay. I tell you what... Forget women's needs. Why do you pay for Old People? That's not your needs... Why do you pay for Sick People. That's not YOUR needs. Oh yeah, that's because that's how insurance works.
What you want is to cover/insure yourself. Then you won't be paying for all these sick people, old people, and women. Of course, you'll be screwed if you get hit by a car.... Which is the point of insurance.
Really, you don't know how insurance works.
Or maybe he's saying that just because there's a finite number of bitcoins, that doesn't mean you can't split them a bajillion ways.
Everyone seems to think that bitcoins can't have inflation.... Every value is based on perception and trust. If I can buy a candy bar for .5 bitcoins today (I made that up), the market may shift and tomorrow it will be 1 bitcoin. Who knows?
Same thing with gold. I listen to all my conservative friends ramble on about gold as if there'd be no inflation if we used it... but it's STILL just perception and trust. The value of gold can shift. It went up when Obama became president, and not because the supply magically went down..... Heh.
Anyway, perception of value can change. And just because you can't make more bitcoins, doesn't mean you can't split them forever. It's kind of the same thing really. People don't seem to get that. Or, perhaps I completely misunderstood what he was trying to say.
Or, maybe the whole point of insurance is that everyone pays a little, and those that need it take out. With a large enough pool, everyone is covered. Yes. Healthy people pay for sick people. That's kind of the point......
Or, he got it going, and once it reached a certain size, he did the paperwork. Also, if you're going to start a light building company, it would make sense to build to code. It's a good idea. It exists for a reason. I assure you, none of us want people to build structures all willy nilly. Nooooooo. Bad Idea.
You're reaching again.
You and I (and everyone else) both know that the cops raiding some little girl's lemonade stand is the EXCEPTION, not the rule. No one's going to bust your balls over making a few bucks tending a few yards, or building fences for people (my buddy does this on the side), or fixing up people's bikes (another buddy does this on the side).
Yes. Once the lemonade stand get to a certain size and you want to turn it into a fully fledge lemonade/smoothy food cart, it's time for a business license, a food handlers permit, and perhaps an inspection. Big woopty doo.
It IS quite possible to start a business without doing paperwork. I think you just hate The Gubmint, and look for excuses to blame everything on it, taking exceptions as rules because it fits your world view.
Incidentally, I'm starting a small business. I haven't filled out any paperwork. And I won't until I start selling enough to gauge my market and see if it's worth it. No one's going to bust my chops.
Uhm. If that's supposed to sarcastically funny, it failed. Badly. If you actually meant that.... Wow. It's time to take a step back, breathe, take a vacation, and put a defibrillator on your empathy, 'cause it's hav'in problems....
Oh, and one more thing... I have a HSA. I have a high deductable insurance($2000/year).. and oddly enough, I still have it. Obamacare didn't kill it. Still have my insurance.
"I'm all in favor of chicks doing birth control, but personally, the pill isn't gonna do me any good. Why should that be on MY policy?"
1. Chicks hate it when you call them Chicks. The "doing birth control" doesn't make you sound like a winner either....
2. Are you planning on having sex sometime? Then the Pill is indeed going to do you some good. I'll give you a tip (phrasing!)... Your chances of having sex will go up if you don't spout this stupid crap in front of women.
3. The whole point of insurance is to minimize risk. Everyone pays a little bit, and the money is doled out to the few that need it. You're not paying FOR YOU. You're paying a little bit for EVERONE, and getting covered just in case something bad happens to you.
3 again. Just in case you didn't get that. With insurance, you're not paying for healthcare. You're paying for reduced risk.
50% of humans are women (Not "chicks"), and we all benefit from them being able to have sex without worrying about pregnancy. So stop being an ass, shut up, and go get laid. And seriously, lose the attitude, it'll help.
I can't believe I'm responding to an AC.... but I hate this ideological shit.
I'm a progressive. I believe capitalism can build good things if government creates the basic infrastructure so that people can get on with their lives. I believe !@#$ing selfish "I got mine, fuck everyone else" Righties take that basic infrastructure for granted.
"negative effects of govt programs which have fostered dependency" You're pulling that out of your ass. I grew up POOOORRRRR... we got WIC, food stamps, lunch assistance. I got Pell grants to go to college. I assure you, I've paid back every dime and then some through my taxes. That's how the system is supposed to work, that's how it often works. You give someone a hand up, and they pay it back. Yes, there are exceptions. No, they are not the rule.
"the incentive is to wean those adults off of govt programs" Like what already happens?
"inherently destructive and dysfunctional as Obamacare" How would you know? We've barely started the damn thing. And what's so !@#$ing wrong about making everyone buy medical insurance? Where's the government takeover? What's the problem here?
"The moral hazards of charity" /eyeroll
"It is extremely difficult to reintroduce the shame and stigma of receiving charity " We're in the biggest recession since the !#$!ing Great Depression. Now is a fine time for a little charity. So fuck off. And we all know the "recovery" is fine at the top, but it's not over down here at the bottom.
"wholly dependent on govt programs" I hate this one most of all. My neighbors are Poor. 30 years old, 5 kids. They are the nicest people on the planet, they give, they have a wonderful family.... and they work HARD. Harder than me, harder than you. I grew up poor. I've seen it. Poor people work HARD. Often they have 2 or 3 jobs, they wake up early, the work late, they go to work sick so they don't get canned. Their KIDS work under the table! Fuck your myth of government dependance. If that family is getting help from the government, I'm happy for them.
If companies would pay a damn decent wage in this country, they wouldn't have to work so hard. But all those chain stores (which seems to be most of our economy these days) can pay low wages, and that's that. The companies COUNT on the government to pick up their slack with assistance.
"progressive political ideology seeks to eliminate all societal standards of behavior and the very concept of of personal responsibility" I never knew I was such a bastard. Here I thought I was for building basic infrastructure and getting the hell out of the way so everyone can make a buck and get on with their lives. I thought I wanted well regulated economic institutions, so we all can get on with our businesses without fearing undue risk with our protected money. Here I thought I just wanted justice for those that fucked our entire economy. Here I thought I just wanted the government to mind the constitution and not wiretap folks without at LEAST a rubber stamped warrant.
If progressives have one weakness, it's that we want things to be FAIR. We want a level playing field. Joe Millionaire Senator Buddy shouldn't be able to murder and hooker and get away with it just because he's rich. Rich people SHOULD pay more taxes ON THEIR EXCESSIVE wealth, because by the nature of DOING BUSINESS, they USE MORE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE and BENEFIT FROM IT MORE than we little poeple do.
What bastards, us progressives.
The whole post above is an ideological rant that demonizes "the other guy". It's all too common, and I apologize for my own part in it above. Most Righties just want to be left alone. Everyone hates taxes. Everyone hates beaurocratic stupidity and money wasting. People feel powerless these days and it's too easy to blame "Them". But please, everyone, don't demonize the other side.
Also, I'm kind of hating how all these stories lately digress into ideological wars instead of commenting on the original topic. Kentucky built something good, to help it's citizens. Good for them! I hope it works.
Some of us don't have a kneejerk reaction of "government bad!". Our local PUD works so well I don't think about it most of the time. The roads work, the cops come when I dial 911, the fire department is right there if I need them. What are you complaining about? Oh right.... You're taking it for granted because IT WORKS.
I can't believe you got +5 insightful for making up some really stupid statistics about entire swaths of people in an incredibly racist manner. You have no idea what 90% of Pakistani muslims think about blasphemy. But using your method, I think 90% of Christians support abortion clinic bombers....... (which is obviously a stupid thing to say).
I know several muslims. They're all very nice, and they don't deserve your drivel.
Snowden's been very careful about what he let out, and he gave it to some damn fine journalists who have been careful about what they let out.
I would say the value to his cause, of letting poeple know the NSA is spying on them, is very well served by revealing that the NSA is.... spying on poeple.
Sony just wants you to buy a new headset. This is a transparent money grab. Pure BS.
I dislike how folks jump on the Government Bad train automatically...
Brazil has problems with it's economy. Might it be the crippling poverty? The Favelas? The drug crime perpetuated by American noses? Might it be the LACK of a stable government, as Brazil has gone through periods of autocratic, military, and democratic rule, supposedly aided by the CIA back in that military coup in 60's I might add. Nope nope.... Having the US prop up a bunch of !@#$ers that put in place crony practices just because they're friendly to US policies wouldn't damage a country long term....
Ahem. I am not denying that Brazil has cronyism and kickbacks. Shit. I'm American. WE have cronyism and kickbacks in spades. I'm AM saying that the reason they are lagging economically might be sliiiiiighly more nuanced than "Government Bad". Crippling poverty, drug cartels, and a lack of a stable government for the last couple hundred years makes things a bit challenging.
I guess I am also saying that cronyism and kickbacks don't necessarily equate to lagging economically. Our economy grows while we have cronyism and kickbacks galore. Ask a defense contractor. :D
Now THAT is how to do it. Thank you ak3ldama for giving me more information and correcting me. Thank you for the link. I shall correct my thinking and keep that in mind for the future.
It's still better than just GIVING them the money though. /shrug
I have to agree that the discussion does really seem like "lets regulate the banks that took huge gambles with government insured money, that's a bad idea" Vs. "Obama is a socialist muslim and all government is bad".
It's hard to have a grown up discussion with hyperbole. I know many equate the left saying "Damnit, the right is bat shit crazy" with the right saying "Obama and the democrats are executing a long term plan to crash the government and destroy the US dollar so the UN can take over the world!", but I don't equate those two. The right ARE bat shit crazy.
Obama is not a socialist. Even if he WAS a muslim, who cares, religious freedom. I like government. I like public roads, police, the fire department, environmental regulations, etc, and I dread those things being provided by private companies who would do it SO BADLY. I'm not a communist. I want a mix. The government should provide basic infrastructure and private businesses and people should be free to use that infrastructure to get on with their lives and buy crap they don't need. Reid and Pelosi are pansies, who haven't championed a good leftist cause in... Ever? Obamacare is boring, and not a government takeover of anything. Neither party has done a thing to really fix the budget in decades, and I'm sick of all of them crying about the debt that THEY racked up. Etc...
Note: I can tell you what Obama and the democrats are doing that's wrong. There's plenty of things I don't like. Plent of REAL things. Our government is broken and the Dems are corporatist pansies. I in no way think the R's do all the bad things and the D's are shiny paragons of virtue. That's not true.
Can we stop yelling?
Also, I totally want medicare extended all the way down. Lets just cover everyone. It's far more efficient. Yes, I am an American and I want a single payer insurance system.
Uhm. Wait. Sanity check. Obama did NOT nationalize the auto industry or the healthcare industry.
I know you're refering to the government buying a controlling interest of GM stock. GM was in trouble and needed some money to stay afloat. The government bought a ton of stock (which I happen to think is better than just GIVING them money), it did NOT tell the company how to run, and then it SOLD the stock(I think even at a profit) once GM was on it's feet again. It did all this to prevent GM from folding and causing huge job losses.
I also know that you're refering to Obamacare, AKA, the ACA. I WISH the government had nationalized the healthcare industry, but mandating that you buy insurance from a NON GOVERNMENT insurance company is a far cry from nationalizing anything.
So, basically, you're so wrong we can't even talk to you. Obama didn't nationalize squat. Look to Venezeula if you want to see a country nationalizing private industries. There's none of that here. Your belief is a fantasy. Kool-Aide indeed.
I want 3:37 of my life back.....