As a European I find the article rather America-centric.
As an American I find this article to be Bay Area-centric. Silicon Valley ceased being an engine of significant economic growth after the dotcom bust. It is unlikely to return to its former glory. It is kind of humourous that pundits like Paul Graham are still taking victory laps for an era of growth in Silicon Valley he had little to do with. In the US the economies of the southwest and southeast are much more vital.
There are national characteristics - the fact that the World Cup is repeatedly won by a small group of nations that manage to maintain a style over years also shows this.
Horse dung. The World Cup only highlights that America's best atheletes play American football, baseball, and basketball. If they played soccer (your football) their size and speed would transform the game.
But the US style has it's problems. US companies wind up as slaves to the markets and often damage their engineering skills. The problems in the US car industry show this.
It is called global competition. Car industry is down, aerospace, computer technology, industrial equipment are way up. By in large we compete very well.
While the German car industry has come up with fuel injection, ABS braking and constant four wheel drive over the past 20 years the US industry has invented the cupholder and the SUV.
Don't forget satellite radio and Onstar!.
Likewise, somehow the Japanese are great craftsmen. This skill is reflected in the quality of Toyota's manufacturing and the remarkable qualities in Japanese portable electronics. Apple may have invented the ipod, but the walkman and the transistor radio all came out Japan.
You criticize the American car industry but you fail to recognise that Japanese electronics are in dramatic decline. Be fair.
It's good that the world is like this. Countries specialise. But presuming that one companies system is superior for everything to all the others is silly. The best is what is created when the systems work together - as in the computer industry where the parts are made in Asia and the software comes from all over the world, and in particular from the US.
If it made sense to specialize you wouldn't have an EU. The whole idea is to have a widely diverse economy that is immune from downturns in any single industry. Your ideas are totally antiquated and discredited.
Punished? I don't think Russia needs the WTO or the US for the matter anymore.
Nonetheless, the issue is brought up by Putin whenever he gets the chance. WTO may not matter to Russia's oil sector, but unless the Putin government fancies itself as a provider of raw materials (particularly for China) it will have to grow and diversify the rest of its economy.
Although, Russia will indeed be a member of WTO on its own terms, when dollar falls a few points further against ruble (has falled about 20% for the last 5 years) and the energy market allows Russia to open energy trading on own soil, stimulating ruble demand.
The strengthening of the ruble is a normal and good thing for an economy with such growth potential. But has this translated into widespread wealth and prosperity for the working class? I hope it does. small+20% is still small.
The US is pretty much stuck in the middle of two failing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, weak international stance, unpopular administration and is now being pushed out of the former Soviet Union and Asia.
Both countries have popularly elected governments. If the population decides to descend into civil war the US can do very little about it. As for US military performance, we knocked over Afghanistan with 20 Air Force spotters and precision attacks. That is something Russia failed at in over 10 years of effort. The US conquered Saddam in 2 weeks with 200,000 troops. Not a bad performance I'd say and one that will have Russia and China scambling for years to come.
I also noticed Russia's opening of military bases in Siria and a new naval base in Mediterranean.
Russia's relationship Syria is no surprise. Assad needs all the friends he can get. Russia's tradition of proping up derelicts like this is old news. They're your rubles. Russia has lost dominance of the Black sea to the Ukraine, Romania, Georgia and the US Navy.
It's rather ironic, that the US almost got us to believe it can get as far as Ukraine, but it seems, the collapse of the new superpower is getting closer: Russia has learned a lesson and managed to survive and rise,
Certainly Russia's economy has stabilized and improved since the fall of the USSR to its credit. Why the hell shouldn't it? 180 million relatively well educated people. Boundless resources. But political structures and social traditions that are rotten to the core have reestablished themselves. Russia can do a hell of a lot better than Vladimir Putin and his mafia.
whereas the US still keeps us curious of what the outcome of the fall of the Empire is going to be... yawnnn... Baltic states? You mean those with the governments that endorse Nazis? Don't think they are there for a long time.
They have joined NATO which means they have heavy backing. They pose strategic a problem for Russia gaining reliable access to the Baltic Sea. They have growing economies and are thriving democracies. They are not going anywhere.
This is a smokescreen. Russia is being punished by the US for its stance on many issues such as:
Putin's brazen seizure of Lukoil and jailing of oil kingpin Khordokovski and the screwing of US investors.
Blatant conflicts of interest with Russia's large nuclear deals in Iran and refusal to deal with Iran's enrichment and weapons programs in the UN Security Council.
Russias continuing meddling in the affairs of the former southern and Baltic republics and open use of oil and gas supplies as a political weapon.
All of this and the embarrassing fact that they hold the G8 presidency and will host the annual summit. (Way to go Clinton!). Do not expect movement on the WTO issue by the US anytime soon.
"Learn to speak chinese, because these people are going to take over the world!"
To do that China will have to export culture and influence. Do you really think Americans will be dreaming Chinese dreams and seeking student VISAs by the millions to get into their country?
When they want to build the largest dam in the world (which is an engineering marvel that will put out as much electricity as 15 nuclear power plants combined), they just do it, and don't worry about the environmental, social, or historical implications.
It is suspected the Yangtze river will silt up the lake behind the dam quickly. The lack of silt deposits downstream in the Yangtze plain will hurt their agricultural output. In ten years this may not seem like such a good idea.
China has 35 people for every one of ours, so they could invade with nothing but chopsticks and probably win. But they also have huge natural resources and are progressing very, very fast. Their navy will be as big as ours by 2012 (though not as advanced).
I assume you meant 3.5. The human wave tactic wave used in the Korean War. The result was over 500,000 Chinese dead for Great Leader and a stalemate. Even they are not dumb enough to resort this on a modern battlefield. China does not possess huge natural resources. It will be interesting to see if they take a territorial interest in the mineral and oil wealth of sparsely inhabited Siberia in the coming decades. Comrade wolf will be a small problem for Russia in comparison. As for their navy, at this point they are just fine targets.
Maybe your problem is that you've been suckered so far into the Republican party you've forgotten the true meaning of being conservative.
Not true. The Frist/Hastert/McCain Republicans today bent on spiraling federal spending and illegal alien amnesty are a far cry from the Newt Gingrich Republicans of the mid '90's or the Reagan Republicans before that. Once a party passes the 50% mark it tends to entrain moderates who rot it ideologically from the inside.
You certainly have no problem believing that anyone who doesn't preach the Word of Bush as holy gospel must be a stinking liberal
No. President Bush's words are not infallable. (But Rummy and Cheney who have their hands up his ass making his mouth work are:)
but remember this when you're sharing the bus with some psycho wearing a dynamite vest screaming in a language you don't understand: When you're begging for the government to save your life, you're just asking for a handout too.
I don't think I would be begging for help, but I would be miffed that law enforcement didn't spot such a one using the kind of simple profiling this flamewar is all about.
I would like to look at your history but you have none. Twerp. I'll admit I've been on a bad streak from a moderation standpoint. I thought that 4 mod this morning would keep me above the red line, but I failed to realise how many of you ACLU types are out there who want to keep their kiddie porn hoards hidden. Owned!
As for the previous post, a recurring theme on slashdot is stem cell research. I've got nothing against it. I just think it is grossly over hyped. I do care that the cells are not harvested from human embryos. I am not alone in that. It is the law of the land supported by a majority in this country. The rest of my post is right on. Believe it or not I work for a major medical device company and develop pacemaker software. When we implant a device we can give people 10 or 15 years that they otherwise might not have. When stem cells do that I'll be impressed.
Note how the US played the "Terrorism" card, and the courts didn't immediately fold.
You may wish to send this news item to your Attorney General.
Or you may wish to remain asleep.
Now the 99.999% of legitimate travelers will have to deal with substantial inconvenience in order to protect the rights of a few islamist psychos who have already attacked London and Madrid. Enjoy.
The big news is that the heart was thought that it couldn't repair itself after damage has occurred. Damage like minor heart attacks (which people often don't even know about, yet still have them) create scars on the heart. Over time, the build up of these scars reduces the hearts ability to function properly. Now we learn, that there may be new hope in a heart that could regenerate. Think of all the lives that could be saved. That's the big deal!
Researchers look at stem cells as magic pixie dust able to cure all ills. Fact is the heart damage you mention - infarct is the term commonly used - is permanant. Just like if you lost a toe to frostbite. Lives are already being saved in huge numbers with other interventions - stents, implanted pace makers and defibrillators. There are real life-extending results in this area.
Note to slashdot repliers: Enough with the ad hominem attacks. If you don't like what China's doing, talk about what they're doing, not what you like/dislike about China.
Because you reply to no post in particular, and because there is variation of opinion on this topic one could argue that your predictable appeal is ad hominem as well. Strong well supported opinions should be welcome on this forum. "Can we call get along" pablum such as yours just takes up space.
I personally find China's accusation of collusion to be laughable. China cannot easily establish technical standards because (deservedly) no one trusts them.
We are at a crossroads, and we need to take a step back from the emotion of September eleventh (nearly 5 years later) and really look at what we want to see in the future.
Polls suggest that another 9/11 type attack is the worst future option and that the government must take necessary steps to prevent it.
I won't stand on a soapbox here and force my opinion on others but I think it is time for a very serious debate over what is acceptable to give up in the name of security, what secrets we will let our government keep from us and what checks and balances need to be in place.
The threat of terrorism on US soil is almost nothing.
A breathtakingly stupid statement. Further discussion is pointless, but I have one additional observation...
He's like the abusive drunk boyfriend who stops by after hanging out with his business buddies to ass-rape us, and he doesn't even give a reach-around.
Better that that immature pervert Clinton who only sought the office in order to solicit blowjobs from interns.
You were modded down not for saying that the populace agrees with a foolish tyrant, but for saying that it's not the responsibility of the government to do something about it.
I think it is much simpler than that. The leftists that read site are in denial of the fact that mainstream America is willing to give President Bush the tools he needs to fight terror.
Sometimes called majority rule, which is really the central point of my original post.
It gives us basic rights that no one is supposed to take away, especially not a fevered mob.
And yet law makes incursions in these rights all of the time. Ask someone on college campus about free speech.
The most vivid example of why mob rule is wrong, and how we failed to protect our system of government, was in the wake of Pearl Harbor when Japanese Americans were rounded up wholesale, placed in concentration camps and had all their property stolen by their neighbors.
You can highlight many contradictions and injustices in American history. Slavery, women's sufferage... Your point is?
I'm all for the government monitoring the communications of criminals and terrorists. BUT, they have to get a court order to do it.
Ok, a point of agreement. There is hope. But it is impractical to ask for court permission to wiretap perishable terrorist communications. There must be another workable alternative, prequalification perhaps.
It means we don't have basic civil liberties, we have liberties at the whim of whomever is in power which sounds more like third world dictatorship than great democracy.
Well said. The fact remains. Renewed terror attacks on the scale of 9/11 will not be tolerated by the electorate (mob). Government will seek to act in accordance with that wish.
Emotive rhetoric is not all that badly executed, but transparent straw men and ad hominem attacks in the face of reasoned debate leave you looking just too desperate. The actual stances the two of you adopt almost don't matter, given the gap in the quality of your arguments.
That's a good one. As if one you liberal archea have neurons sufficient comprehend a serious argument when one comes your way.
Interesting. You've conflated the (obviously and unarguably true) fact that most Americans want the government to prevent terrorist attacks against us with the assertion that the administration is free to do whatever it wants in pursuit of that goal.
What bizarre reasoning lead you to that conclusion? Providing the government a necessary defensive tools it needs to fight terror from within falls somewhat short of creating a police state, don't you think? The narcissists on the left will howl at *any* perceived incursion on their rights even though tens of thousands of innocent citizens might be murdered otherwise. Your statement is similar to 2nd amendment arguments for the unfettered right of gun loonies to pack heat even though it demonstrably and adversely affects those who don't.
Obviously, I disagree. Defense of our country still must take place within the framework of our system of laws and the Constitution of the United States. To the degree that the laws need amending, I think that they clearly should be - although the current administration has shied away from this path. Instead, the Attorney General has repeatedly asserted that laws governing the gathering of intelligence data, even domestically, are not within the purview of Congress to issue, and that the executive branch can simply disregard them. When Congress has offered to make changes to legislation to make it more palatable to the administration, their offers were rebuffed: simply put, the administration does not wish to be governed by laws, regardless of their actual content.
Here we go. Alberto Gonzales is a fascist! Bush is a liar! Fire Rumsfeld! Yawn. I for one appreciate the prosperty they have brought to our great nation, and the heroic foreign policy they have pursued.
As for the rhetorical device you use - that the opinions you hold are that of the "great silent majority" - I can only say that in polls on a similar issue (the "warrantless wiretap" question), the data would seem to hold otherwise. In a poll run by the American Research Group, there was a near 50-50 split on the issue of whether the president should be censured over the NSA warrantless wiretap issue. [americanre...hgroup.com]
Well, that is what you read in the New York Times, or see on CNN. If their polls were correct Al Gore would be President. What you started as a thoughtful, though flawed, argument has decended into a mindless partisan rant. Shame on you.
Sophisticated terrorists already know they are being spied on and avoid electronic communication. For example, Bin laden uses human couriers for this very reason.
Bin Laden is a rather singular counter argument. Loosely affiliated Al_Qaida terror cells like those that attacked Madrid and London still need electronic communications to function. They also certainly need them to operate in North America.
My phone company simply betrayed me for money. The US government does it because in it's opinion, it is above the law, and it fears disruption of the current cozy system.
No argument here.
For instance, people of Mexican origin and / or nationality are organizing now. Where will that lead? There is more income inequality now than decades past. Will that ignite some sort of movement to re-adjust the balance of power between companies and workers?
I think the demonstration of illegal aliens is politically far removed from a labor movement. Aliens have no basis in citizenship to fight for anything. Will a new labor movement erupt to rebalance the corporatism we now see? In my opinion, no. Not as long as employment stays full and economic growth stays high. But if the US shifts to lower growth or declining incomes that could change rapidly.
It could bring an end to Facism. (No, I'm not saying they're Nazis. But they are authoritarian, rule with a bunch of companies, and suppress dissent.
I think you misuse the term fascism. I agree with what you say, but it is more material coersion (blackmail?) than strict authoritarian rule that corporations exersize.
Thanks to Dijkstra's [wikipedia.org] & the Bellman-Ford [wikipedia.org] algorithms, it's a hop skip and a jump to a prosecutor saying "we have records showing you called your mother on such and such date prompting her to call her hair dresser who has been forwarding money to his family living in Mexico that has ties to Islamic Extremist groups!"
Impressive name dropping. Too bad you don't know what you are talking about. The NSA does not use minimal path algorithms to search for records. The phone company switching equipment might have used them to construct the original call circuit.
In the eyes of the government, we are all innocent until proven guilty.
The desire of the vast majority of Americans to root out terror in the US has given the government the mandate to use communication records. The nefarious behavior of the government goes only as far as that mandate. If you want to rail against someone for the loss of privacy, rail against the great silent majority in America who will not tolerate a repeat of 911.
You can't grow hydrogen trees or dig the ground looking for it. Just about all the hydrogen around us (and yes, there is a lot of it) is combined to Oxygen or Carbon. In order to burn it (a fuel-cell is sort of like burning, without flames) we must first apply energy to get it loose (and, probably, release some carbon to the atmosphere in the process).
Very true. Hydrogen used by NASA for rocket propellant is derived from natural gas! The process does not result in the release of hydrocarbons. The hydrocarbons that result from the process (butane, acetylene) are useful themselves. I have always thought a smart application of nuclear power would be the production of hydrogen through electolysis of water - unlimited hydrogen. Cheap? I have no idea.
Your references are absolutely atrocious. GDP is not the be all end all metric for societal fullfillment. But it is an indicator of increasing wealth. In the US that anyone who obeys the law and is willing to work and compete can improve their standing. Does that mean that their will be no poverty? Ofcourse not. But high GDP also insures that there is class mobility. That is why immigrants (legal and illegal) are tripping over each other to get into the country. That is a profound strength.
Slashdot Mirror
b) For some reason, Americans tend to compare themselves with developing countries rather than other first world countries.
Have you visited California lately?
As a European I find the article rather America-centric.
As an American I find this article to be Bay Area-centric. Silicon Valley ceased being an engine of significant economic growth after the dotcom bust. It is unlikely to return to its former glory. It is kind of humourous that pundits like Paul Graham are still taking victory laps for an era of growth in Silicon Valley he had little to do with. In the US the economies of the southwest and southeast are much more vital.
I think the Iraq war is a resounding success. An elected government is in place. The terror mastermind is dead meat. Way to go Dub!
There are national characteristics - the fact that the World Cup is repeatedly won by a small group of nations that manage to maintain a style over years also shows this.
Horse dung. The World Cup only highlights that America's best atheletes play American football, baseball, and basketball. If they played soccer (your football) their size and speed would transform the game.
But the US style has it's problems. US companies wind up as slaves to the markets and often damage their engineering skills. The problems in the US car industry show this.
It is called global competition. Car industry is down, aerospace, computer technology, industrial equipment are way up. By in large we compete very well.
While the German car industry has come up with fuel injection, ABS braking and constant four wheel drive over the past 20 years the US industry has invented the cupholder and the SUV.
Don't forget satellite radio and Onstar!.
Likewise, somehow the Japanese are great craftsmen. This skill is reflected in the quality of Toyota's manufacturing and the remarkable qualities in Japanese portable electronics. Apple may have invented the ipod, but the walkman and the transistor radio all came out Japan.
You criticize the American car industry but you fail to recognise that Japanese electronics are in dramatic decline. Be fair.
It's good that the world is like this. Countries specialise. But presuming that one companies system is superior for everything to all the others is silly. The best is what is created when the systems work together - as in the computer industry where the parts are made in Asia and the software comes from all over the world, and in particular from the US.
If it made sense to specialize you wouldn't have an EU. The whole idea is to have a widely diverse economy that is immune from downturns in any single industry. Your ideas are totally antiquated and discredited.
I think China and North Korea use the same publicist.
Punished? I don't think Russia needs the WTO or the US for the matter anymore.
Nonetheless, the issue is brought up by Putin whenever he gets the chance. WTO may not matter to Russia's oil sector, but unless the Putin government fancies itself as a provider of raw materials (particularly for China) it will have to grow and diversify the rest of its economy.
Although, Russia will indeed be a member of WTO on its own terms, when dollar falls a few points further against ruble (has falled about 20% for the last 5 years) and the energy market allows Russia to open energy trading on own soil, stimulating ruble demand.
The strengthening of the ruble is a normal and good thing for an economy with such growth potential. But has this translated into widespread wealth and prosperity for the working class? I hope it does. small+20% is still small.
The US is pretty much stuck in the middle of two failing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, weak international stance, unpopular administration and is now being pushed out of the former Soviet Union and Asia.
Both countries have popularly elected governments. If the population decides to descend into civil war the US can do very little about it. As for US military performance, we knocked over Afghanistan with 20 Air Force spotters and precision attacks. That is something Russia failed at in over 10 years of effort. The US conquered Saddam in 2 weeks with 200,000 troops. Not a bad performance I'd say and one that will have Russia and China scambling for years to come.
I also noticed Russia's opening of military bases in Siria and a new naval base in Mediterranean.
Russia's relationship Syria is no surprise. Assad needs all the friends he can get. Russia's tradition of proping up derelicts like this is old news. They're your rubles. Russia has lost dominance of the Black sea to the Ukraine, Romania, Georgia and the US Navy.
It's rather ironic, that the US almost got us to believe it can get as far as Ukraine, but it seems, the collapse of the new superpower is getting closer: Russia has learned a lesson and managed to survive and rise,
Certainly Russia's economy has stabilized and improved since the fall of the USSR to its credit. Why the hell shouldn't it? 180 million relatively well educated people. Boundless resources. But political structures and social traditions that are rotten to the core have reestablished themselves. Russia can do a hell of a lot better than Vladimir Putin and his mafia.
whereas the US still keeps us curious of what the outcome of the fall of the Empire is going to be... yawnnn... Baltic states? You mean those with the governments that endorse Nazis? Don't think they are there for a long time.
They have joined NATO which means they have heavy backing. They pose strategic a problem for Russia gaining reliable access to the Baltic Sea. They have growing economies and are thriving democracies. They are not going anywhere.
This is a smokescreen. Russia is being punished by the US for its stance on many issues such as:
All of this and the embarrassing fact that they hold the G8 presidency and will host the annual summit. (Way to go Clinton!). Do not expect movement on the WTO issue by the US anytime soon.
"Learn to speak chinese, because these people are going to take over the world!"
To do that China will have to export culture and influence. Do you really think Americans will be dreaming Chinese dreams and seeking student VISAs by the millions to get into their country?
When they want to build the largest dam in the world (which is an engineering marvel that will put out as much electricity as 15 nuclear power plants combined), they just do it, and don't worry about the environmental, social, or historical implications.
It is suspected the Yangtze river will silt up the lake behind the dam quickly. The lack of silt deposits downstream in the Yangtze plain will hurt their agricultural output. In ten years this may not seem like such a good idea.
China has 35 people for every one of ours, so they could invade with nothing but chopsticks and probably win. But they also have huge natural resources and are progressing very, very fast. Their navy will be as big as ours by 2012 (though not as advanced).
I assume you meant 3.5. The human wave tactic wave used in the Korean War. The result was over 500,000 Chinese dead for Great Leader and a stalemate. Even they are not dumb enough to resort this on a modern battlefield. China does not possess huge natural resources. It will be interesting to see if they take a territorial interest in the mineral and oil wealth of sparsely inhabited Siberia in the coming decades. Comrade wolf will be a small problem for Russia in comparison. As for their navy, at this point they are just fine targets.
Maybe your problem is that you've been suckered so far into the Republican party you've forgotten the true meaning of being conservative.
Not true. The Frist/Hastert/McCain Republicans today bent on spiraling federal spending and illegal alien amnesty are a far cry from the Newt Gingrich Republicans of the mid '90's or the Reagan Republicans before that. Once a party passes the 50% mark it tends to entrain moderates who rot it ideologically from the inside.
You certainly have no problem believing that anyone who doesn't preach the Word of Bush as holy gospel must be a stinking liberal
No. President Bush's words are not infallable. (But Rummy and Cheney who have their hands up his ass making his mouth work are :)
but remember this when you're sharing the bus with some psycho wearing a dynamite vest screaming in a language you don't understand: When you're begging for the government to save your life, you're just asking for a handout too.
I don't think I would be begging for help, but I would be miffed that law enforcement didn't spot such a one using the kind of simple profiling this flamewar is all about.
Check his posting history
I would like to look at your history but you have none. Twerp. I'll admit I've been on a bad streak from a moderation standpoint. I thought that 4 mod this morning would keep me above the red line, but I failed to realise how many of you ACLU types are out there who want to keep their kiddie porn hoards hidden. Owned!
As for the previous post, a recurring theme on slashdot is stem cell research. I've got nothing against it. I just think it is grossly over hyped. I do care that the cells are not harvested from human embryos. I am not alone in that. It is the law of the land supported by a majority in this country. The rest of my post is right on. Believe it or not I work for a major medical device company and develop pacemaker software. When we implant a device we can give people 10 or 15 years that they otherwise might not have. When stem cells do that I'll be impressed.
Note how the US played the "Terrorism" card, and the courts didn't immediately fold. You may wish to send this news item to your Attorney General. Or you may wish to remain asleep.
Now the 99.999% of legitimate travelers will have to deal with substantial inconvenience in order to protect the rights of a few islamist psychos who have already attacked London and Madrid. Enjoy.
The big news is that the heart was thought that it couldn't repair itself after damage has occurred. Damage like minor heart attacks (which people often don't even know about, yet still have them) create scars on the heart. Over time, the build up of these scars reduces the hearts ability to function properly. Now we learn, that there may be new hope in a heart that could regenerate. Think of all the lives that could be saved. That's the big deal!
Researchers look at stem cells as magic pixie dust able to cure all ills. Fact is the heart damage you mention - infarct is the term commonly used - is permanant. Just like if you lost a toe to frostbite. Lives are already being saved in huge numbers with other interventions - stents, implanted pace makers and defibrillators. There are real life-extending results in this area.
Note to slashdot repliers: Enough with the ad hominem attacks. If you don't like what China's doing, talk about what they're doing, not what you like/dislike about China.
Because you reply to no post in particular, and because there is variation of opinion on this topic one could argue that your predictable appeal is ad hominem as well. Strong well supported opinions should be welcome on this forum. "Can we call get along" pablum such as yours just takes up space.
I personally find China's accusation of collusion to be laughable. China cannot easily establish technical standards because (deservedly) no one trusts them.
We are at a crossroads, and we need to take a step back from the emotion of September eleventh (nearly 5 years later) and really look at what we want to see in the future.
Polls suggest that another 9/11 type attack is the worst future option and that the government must take necessary steps to prevent it.
I won't stand on a soapbox here and force my opinion on others but I think it is time for a very serious debate over what is acceptable to give up in the name of security, what secrets we will let our government keep from us and what checks and balances need to be in place.
The Bill of Rights is not a suicide pact.
The threat of terrorism on US soil is almost nothing.
A breathtakingly stupid statement. Further discussion is pointless, but I have one additional observation...
He's like the abusive drunk boyfriend who stops by after hanging out with his business buddies to ass-rape us, and he doesn't even give a reach-around.
Better that that immature pervert Clinton who only sought the office in order to solicit blowjobs from interns.
You were modded down not for saying that the populace agrees with a foolish tyrant, but for saying that it's not the responsibility of the government to do something about it.
I think it is much simpler than that. The leftists that read site are in denial of the fact that mainstream America is willing to give President Bush the tools he needs to fight terror.
Here
So I take it you are a big fan of mob rule?
Sometimes called majority rule, which is really the central point of my original post.
It gives us basic rights that no one is supposed to take away, especially not a fevered mob.
And yet law makes incursions in these rights all of the time. Ask someone on college campus about free speech.
The most vivid example of why mob rule is wrong, and how we failed to protect our system of government, was in the wake of Pearl Harbor when Japanese Americans were rounded up wholesale, placed in concentration camps and had all their property stolen by their neighbors.
You can highlight many contradictions and injustices in American history. Slavery, women's sufferage... Your point is?
I'm all for the government monitoring the communications of criminals and terrorists. BUT, they have to get a court order to do it.
Ok, a point of agreement. There is hope. But it is impractical to ask for court permission to wiretap perishable terrorist communications. There must be another workable alternative, prequalification perhaps.
It means we don't have basic civil liberties, we have liberties at the whim of whomever is in power which sounds more like third world dictatorship than great democracy.
Well said. The fact remains. Renewed terror attacks on the scale of 9/11 will not be tolerated by the electorate (mob). Government will seek to act in accordance with that wish.
Emotive rhetoric is not all that badly executed, but transparent straw men and ad hominem attacks in the face of reasoned debate leave you looking just too desperate. The actual stances the two of you adopt almost don't matter, given the gap in the quality of your arguments.
That's a good one. As if one you liberal archea have neurons sufficient comprehend a serious argument when one comes your way.
Interesting. You've conflated the (obviously and unarguably true) fact that most Americans want the government to prevent terrorist attacks against us with the assertion that the administration is free to do whatever it wants in pursuit of that goal.
What bizarre reasoning lead you to that conclusion? Providing the government a necessary defensive tools it needs to fight terror from within falls somewhat short of creating a police state, don't you think? The narcissists on the left will howl at *any* perceived incursion on their rights even though tens of thousands of innocent citizens might be murdered otherwise. Your statement is similar to 2nd amendment arguments for the unfettered right of gun loonies to pack heat even though it demonstrably and adversely affects those who don't.
Obviously, I disagree. Defense of our country still must take place within the framework of our system of laws and the Constitution of the United States. To the degree that the laws need amending, I think that they clearly should be - although the current administration has shied away from this path. Instead, the Attorney General has repeatedly asserted that laws governing the gathering of intelligence data, even domestically, are not within the purview of Congress to issue, and that the executive branch can simply disregard them. When Congress has offered to make changes to legislation to make it more palatable to the administration, their offers were rebuffed: simply put, the administration does not wish to be governed by laws, regardless of their actual content.
Here we go. Alberto Gonzales is a fascist! Bush is a liar! Fire Rumsfeld! Yawn. I for one appreciate the prosperty they have brought to our great nation, and the heroic foreign policy they have pursued.
As for the rhetorical device you use - that the opinions you hold are that of the "great silent majority" - I can only say that in polls on a similar issue (the "warrantless wiretap" question), the data would seem to hold otherwise. In a poll run by the American Research Group, there was a near 50-50 split on the issue of whether the president should be censured over the NSA warrantless wiretap issue. [americanre...hgroup.com]
Well, that is what you read in the New York Times, or see on CNN. If their polls were correct Al Gore would be President. What you started as a thoughtful, though flawed, argument has decended into a mindless partisan rant. Shame on you.
Sophisticated terrorists already know they are being spied on and avoid electronic communication. For example, Bin laden uses human couriers for this very reason.
Bin Laden is a rather singular counter argument. Loosely affiliated Al_Qaida terror cells like those that attacked Madrid and London still need electronic communications to function. They also certainly need them to operate in North America.
My phone company simply betrayed me for money. The US government does it because in it's opinion, it is above the law, and it fears disruption of the current cozy system.
No argument here.
For instance, people of Mexican origin and / or nationality are organizing now. Where will that lead? There is more income inequality now than decades past. Will that ignite some sort of movement to re-adjust the balance of power between companies and workers?
I think the demonstration of illegal aliens is politically far removed from a labor movement. Aliens have no basis in citizenship to fight for anything. Will a new labor movement erupt to rebalance the corporatism we now see? In my opinion, no. Not as long as employment stays full and economic growth stays high. But if the US shifts to lower growth or declining incomes that could change rapidly.
It could bring an end to Facism. (No, I'm not saying they're Nazis. But they are authoritarian, rule with a bunch of companies, and suppress dissent.
I think you misuse the term fascism. I agree with what you say, but it is more material coersion (blackmail?) than strict authoritarian rule that corporations exersize.
Thanks to Dijkstra's [wikipedia.org] & the Bellman-Ford [wikipedia.org] algorithms, it's a hop skip and a jump to a prosecutor saying "we have records showing you called your mother on such and such date prompting her to call her hair dresser who has been forwarding money to his family living in Mexico that has ties to Islamic Extremist groups!"
Impressive name dropping. Too bad you don't know what you are talking about. The NSA does not use minimal path algorithms to search for records. The phone company switching equipment might have used them to construct the original call circuit.
In the eyes of the government, we are all innocent until proven guilty.
The desire of the vast majority of Americans to root out terror in the US has given the government the mandate to use communication records. The nefarious behavior of the government goes only as far as that mandate. If you want to rail against someone for the loss of privacy, rail against the great silent majority in America who will not tolerate a repeat of 911.
You can't grow hydrogen trees or dig the ground looking for it. Just about all the hydrogen around us (and yes, there is a lot of it) is combined to Oxygen or Carbon. In order to burn it (a fuel-cell is sort of like burning, without flames) we must first apply energy to get it loose (and, probably, release some carbon to the atmosphere in the process).
Very true. Hydrogen used by NASA for rocket propellant is derived from natural gas! The process does not result in the release of hydrocarbons. The hydrocarbons that result from the process (butane, acetylene) are useful themselves. I have always thought a smart application of nuclear power would be the production of hydrogen through electolysis of water - unlimited hydrogen. Cheap? I have no idea.
Your references are absolutely atrocious. GDP is not the be all end all metric for societal fullfillment. But it is an indicator of increasing wealth. In the US that anyone who obeys the law and is willing to work and compete can improve their standing. Does that mean that their will be no poverty? Ofcourse not. But high GDP also insures that there is class mobility. That is why immigrants (legal and illegal) are tripping over each other to get into the country. That is a profound strength.
From IRAQ, guys, we're being whipped over there
Events on the ground there dispute this. Go GDub!
We are going down guys. Sooner or later, we'll be at the bottom of the pack.
And yet we continue to outpace developed nations in GDP growth. You keep the programming prize and I'll keep my large home and SUV.