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AllofMP3.com May Hinder Russia Joining WTO
gitana writes "The New York Times is reporting that American trade negotiators may demand the shutdown of AllofMP3.com as a condition of Russia joining the World Trade Organization." From the article: "Music industry officials say AllofMP3, which first came to their attention in 2004, is a large-scale commercial piracy site, and they dismiss its claims of legality. "It is totally unprecedented to have a pirate site operating so openly for so long," said Neil Turkewitz, executive vice president of the Recording Industry Association of America, who is based in Washington ... AllofMP3.com says on the site that it can legally sell to any user based in Russia and warns foreign users to verify the legality within their countries for themselves. The site features a wide selection of Russian music, but is written in English with prices listed in United States dollars."
"The site features a wide selection of Russian music, but is written in English with prices listed in United States dollars"
Goddamnit, how can we, as Americans, allow such a site to exist?!? Russian sites must be written in a native (or, at the most, european) language, and they'd better show prices in rubles. Well, I guess, euros would be okay as well, as long as they don't directly link to a currency conversions site.
I'd like to call, once and for all, for all sites not located within the US (or, um, England) to stop putting up sites in English.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You cannot legislate away theft. If you want to curb it, you have to remove the economic incentive to steal. For music/video, you do that by making it easier/cheaper to buy the content from a legitimate distributor than to copy it. The "man" thinks they can also do this by limiting the quality of the output from illegitimate sources (using onerous copy protection systems that probably won't work anyway). They need to believe this if they have any hope of maintaining their rather excessive markups on their product. I am of the opinion that they'll kick and scream some more and eventually mostly give up and use pricing to fight piracy. But we'll see....
Listen p*ssy. I'm sure your the same homo that posted earlier about alf's boner and you just want to remain anonymous fo
If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.
Long ago as Napster faded into the sunset (in its old form, at least) a friend turned me onto allofmp3. Promised me it was only $.10 a track and the selection was amazing. I went there, I signed up, I think I even may have purchased a few tracks.
But the more I looked at it, the more uneasy I felt about how legitimate it could be. This latest story confirms my hunch... they aren't. This other related article from Wired goes into further detail. Apparently allofmp3 is already offering downloads for the latest Red Hot Chili Peppers' as are tracks from the latest Shakira album (you can tell I'm from the vinyl age, still calling them "albums"). The prices are 1/10 the iTunes rates, and while the article doesn't say, it would seem allofmp3 has no contract or agreement to sell these tracks.
(From the Wired article: "..., World music downloading leader iTunes charges a fixed 99 cents per song, but the Russian site offers tracks for a 10th of that price. Songs from the Red Hot Chili Peppers' new double album, Stadium Arcadium, cost between 10 and 16 cents. The whole of Oral Fixation, Vol. 2, the latest album by Colombian pop star Shakira, can be had for just $1.40...., ")
I like what allofmp3 has tried to do, offer a vast array of music at much more reasonable prices than the rest of the world, but it does them, and the rest of us who would demand a more fair distribution model irreparable damage. The more "we" are labeled as criminals by our own actions, the more fodder for their argument. And, the more likely DRM becomes more onerous and intrusive and constraining.
Also interesting is the focus of the article, the barrier for Russia to enter into the World Trade Organization. I couldn't care less about that aspect, it seems a big stick and out of proportion that Russia should bear... but that's political schtick. I think the even bigger issue is this has put allofmp3 on everybody's radar, which of course means the RIAA, Congress, progress (i.e., the opposite of congress), etc. And if allofmp3 is selling rogue mp3s, it's bad for the anti-DRM community.
It's an eternal adage, and how true it always seems to be: "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is."
... the RIAA hinders YOU??
Russia is better off going isolationlist and not joining the WTO. Look at the mess we have here in America as an example. Our politicians have an incessent need to butt their noses in everyone else's business, despite the citizen base not wanting them to do so. We (meaning our government) has no right to tell other countries how to handle their business at all. Our influence should end at the border and tariffs, unless assistance is a) explicitly requested from others and b) supported/approved by citizens.
Don't listen to the US. Show a backbone like so few other countries have and tell Duhbya to fuck off already. Don't cooperate with the current administration one iota; wait and see what the 2008 election brings. Hopefully the next administration will be far less corrupt.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
unless it impacts on corporate America of course
Our copyright system is very peculiar, but very good for business so it will be imposed on the whole world.
"It is totally unprecedented to have a pirate site operating so openly for so long," said Neil Turkewitz
It is only piracy according to our intellectual property laws, which have very little philosophical or pragamtic basis.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
The free market has arrived. Globalization at its finest. Sure US Company Wal-Mart don't care about Chinese slaves making shirts for pennies, why should we give a damn about 80 cents albums for download? The world is sick, welcome to the wild west which we call the internet.
:)
They'll try to lock us down, and take our freedom. But our Russian friends, our fellow Native American brothers, and our Columbian stimulant merchants will continue fighting for what's right. Free markets my friend. Call them black market if you want, but that's just racist
Who is running your country?
"The result is that numerous organizations in Russia receive royalties for the use of foreign artistic works, but never pass on that money to the artists"
With the way a lot of the music industry works, it looks like they'll fit right in.
"These collecting agencies are thieves and frauds because they accept money while pretending to represent artists", said Eric Baptiste
Yeah, well, pot, meet kettle, you two will get along fine.
this is a country where for 70 years everyting belonged to the public domain, this whole american copyright stuff is a bit alien
;) by that stage WTO will be begging the russians to join
anyways russians can always play the energy card, switch off gas to whole of europe and watch the shit hit the fan
Russia is setting up to be a pretty big economic power.
Badass Resumes
we use us dollars in a big amount of places. So it is just called as "Standart Unit" in price lists (mostly in internet and computer hardware shops), in russian (Uslovnaya Edinitsa). So about piracing mp3's, not to much people use such sites (mostly called bydlosites). There are a lot of free sources and home networks
As a career sideman, I feel no pain for the old industry passing (especially the lawyers), but the job of recording engineer is going the way of the hatmaker. Actually that analogy breaks down: The job of recording artist and recording engineer are being merged and will not pay very well. There used to be more work for painters, too.
OT: There's a bigger issue here about labor and specialization - the best singer I've ever knew (hits in the 60s) was taking an occasional plumbing job in the 80s and wasn't bitter: The way he put it was: $30 an hour. This while commanding $2-$4k for 20 - 40 oldies shows a year. I didn't quit playing during the 90s net boom and still work a lot now. I also stay buzzword compliant - this year: AJAX(ugh) and psych-folk(cool).
Listen p*ssy. I'm sure your the same homo that posted earlier about alf's boner and you just want to remain anonymous fo
Everybody's opionion is that all this site sells is pirated music from the US. This is wrong. This site sells completely legal Russian music and audio otherwise unavailable in the United States or Europe: to 10 to 30 million Russian diaspora abroad. The problem with RIAA demands is that they demand a closing of a completely legitimate resource for such content for all of us, Russian speakers forced to look at empty shelves of RIAA storefronts and desperate to find hits of Russian music. The model of selling songs by burning them on bulky things called DVDs or CDs is completely dead, when you look at it from the prospective of a Russian speaking teenager trying to find a Russian 2005-2006 hit in the stores owned by RIAA in the US. There are none. Typically this stores sells some junk from the last century, so the only place we can get that music is from the sites like allofmp3.com. Russian showbusiness is booming now: have you seen any Russian movie from 2005-2006 in the stores owned by MPAA/RIAA? If Hollywood can't make decent movies for the last 5 years, it doesn't mean it's like this everywhere in the world. So, to cut it short: no: Russian courts are right, ignore RIAA.
**AA have obviously decided to go full speed ahead, push the envelope a bit. See if their interests can be made to trump even national sovereignty. I put it at 50/50 whether the "civilized world" will accept this.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
English is well understood in russia, atleast among computer literate people, and dollars are as valid currency there as rubie. Claiming that only reason www-page using english and dollars as currency and located outside uk/usa just to ease piracy is bad excuse.
Russia has over 30 official languages, so maybe english(although its not one of official ones) is used just for compatibility reasons?
Perhaps dollars are used just to ease the price comparison against iTunes et al?
There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
H.R. 859634: Calling copyright infringement "theft" will be considered libel from now on.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Should stop imposing illegal tarrifs on goods from other countries before it starts making demands?
Is it legal to download music from AllOFMP3.com? The availability over the Internet of the ALLOFMP3.com materials is authorized by the license # LS-3?-05-03 of the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society (ROMS) and license # 006/3M-05 of the Rightholders Federation for Collective Copyright Management of Works Used Interactively (FAIR). In accordance to the licenses' terms MediaServices pays license fees for all materials downloaded from the site subject to the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights". All these materials are solely for personal use. Any further distribution, resale or broadcasting are prohibited. The works available from ALLOFMP3.com are protected by the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights" and are for personal use of a buyer. Commercial use of such material is prohibited. Recording, copying, distribution on any media is possible only upon special consent of a Rightholder. The user bears sole responsibility for any use and distribution of all materials received from AllOFMP3.com. This responsibility is dependent on the national legislation in each user's country of residence. The Administration of AllOFMP3.com does not possess information on the laws of each particular country and is not responsible for the actions of foreign users. http://music.allofmp3.com/help/help.shtml?help=on# top
Let's take a look at a sample album (randomly picked - I'm not a DC fan):
Dixie Chicks: Taking The Long Way
#tracks: 14
Cost to purchase in crappy/lossy 192kb MP3 or AAC: $1.87
Cost to purchase in good lossy 320kB MP3 or AAC: $3.12
Cost to purchase lossless (flac, in this case): $8.78
Cost to purchase from Amazon, (lossless), with case, disc, and liner notes: $9.98
The difference between lossless at AllofMP3 and buying a physical disc is very small. It's not much of a bargain, quite honestly, to get the product from AllofMP3. It would make sense that to get a digital copy of the album from a US supplier would be less expensive than the physical article. Except, for some reason, it isn't. Somehow, the degraded quality copies cost more than the physical version here in the US (I'm assuming that iTunes is still 99c/track, or $13.86 for the whole album). They should be noticably less expense. That's what we were told when CDs were more expensive than cassette tapes: the CD, although less expensive to produce, provides a higher quality sound and therefore commands a premium price.
Once again, the RIAA seems to be paranoid that they might lose a stranglehold on the distribution system (i.e.: would have to compete).
I'm not saying that AllofMP3 are totally innocent here - they are just as guilty of exploiting the system as, say, the oil companies are of exploiting the increase in demand for oil, or small business owners buying a $50,000 Ford King Ranch pickup truck and writing it off on their taxes.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Allofmp3 is popular, why? Because people see their prices as legitimate. .99 of itunes looks cheap, but where is that money going? Why do you have to pay .99? Is the artist getting .50 of the .99? How can Allofmp3 function with just .10 a track?
The music industry is just greedy.
GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED
The industry does nothing with its money, they didn't even develope or promote mp3. They bring nothing to the table. It's like a company holding patents waiting for someone to infringe so they can sue and get money.
Russia is irrelevant. It is symptomatic that Russia exists only for copyright violators.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
The site features a wide selection of Russian music, but is written in English with prices listed in United States dollars."
That's a bit misleading. The truth is it has both a Russian and English language option. First time users are able to select the langauge of their choice.
I'll be one of the first to admit that I buy songs from allofmp3.com. So far I've loaded my account with 10 dollars twice, and have maybe a couple bucks of that left. I have, from time to time, actually downloaded some of the Russian songs (I find MC Vspyshkin to be rather funny and I can't even understand a word he says, it just popped up as a recommended 'similar artist' one day). But, primarily, I download music that that otherwise would be considered piracy.
Why do I do it? Simple. The alternatives suck. Itunes has come a long way, I'll admit, but I do not want DRM on my music. I do not want restrictions on how and where I can listen to my music for which I've spent perfectly good money. Allofmp3.com not only offers mp3, which unlike itunes songs is practically universal, as well as a wide-range of other formats including *lossless* formats.
When the music industry wisens up and offers a real alternative, a low-priced non-drm way for people to buy music off the internet, then I will switch over. But as long as they keep trying to fight the market and refuse to give the market what it wants, they will never see another one of my consumer dollars. It's called capitalism and the easiest way to put the pirates out of business is to offer a legal alternative. It's ridiculous and anti-capitalist to refuse to sell the product I want to buy then to cry foul when I find someone who will sell it to me.
The original article is on IHT, my favorite news site...
m p3.php
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/01/yourmoney/
I didn't read the NYT article but seeing that the author listed is from IHT I assume they've just syndicated it, in full hopefully.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
the low-scum behind allofjunk.com gets megalomaniac idea to run for Russian presidency, ends up in Siberia like the "transparent" thug Khodorkovsky (by the will of KGB super-thug).
/. Russia is still a country where business is highly criminalized.
Open your eyes,
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
the parent got to this point before i could.
You do not make unfair curtailment of people's rights go away by sucking up to your oppressors, that course of action is the surest way to signal your willningness to tolerate more oppression.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
I think the way it works is that digital distribution of music is the same as radio broadcast in russia. This means that allofmp3 pays a set fee per year, and they are then free to distribute the music best they want. So, the site isn't a piracy site, im certain they are happily paying their yearly fee.
I'm not 100% sure im right, if someone can confirm that this is how it work (or tell me im wrong) it would be great!
Good! May be they will do something useful for a society (not for a decadent end of the world crowd of procrastinators) for a change.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Given the US use of the WTO, perhaps Russia is better off without joining. There is more work in negotiating individual treaties with individual contries, but the potential for an win-win result is better. Better yet, perhaps Russia (and China) should form their own version of a WTO (RCTO/CRTO?) with their rules, then, see who wishes to play!
The RIAA is now influencing US foreign policy! Scary country...
I remember reading a website published by the canadian authorities detailing their conclusions regarding the DMCA and the filesharing debate in general.
It is highly unlikely they will adopt such laws for the forseeable future, as this website basically said "yeah we know theyre lying their asses off"
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
according to the article. Other commentters have stated that the WTO is not popular in Russia. In my opinion, no one should join it.
Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
They even allow you to pay you through smart ATMs (which usually allow you to pay any cellphone provider bill, banking bill etc from a single machine): http://music.allofmp3.com/osmp.shtml
However I, as a Russian citizen believe that a very small percentage of Russian mp3 downloaders use the service. mp3s, movies, games and software are usually obtained in LANs (which also act as ISPs). My LAN for example has something like 2 terabytes of pirated content. Even people who can afford a licensed copy of Windows (spend less than 5% of their income for Windows XP) buy it pirated. I know a guy who has a fairly large income but he always says that legal WinXP is too expensive for him. The only people who seem to be using a legal copy of Windows are corporate users who are afraid of MS's legal department. Because of that, only Windows and Office (and a bunch of small apps) are thanslated into Russian.
Wouldn't the world be a safer place, for wage-slave citizens and mega-corporations alike, if the U.S. just attacked the every other country and created one global government? Then we wouldn't have to worry about the difficulty of enforcing U.S. law in foreign countries. There would be no foreign countries! Problem solved! I nominate G.W. as our first global dictator, er... I mean first elected president of the United Countries of Freedom-World!
The problem is that as far as I understand it, AllOfMP3.com is NOT commiting copyright infringment. copyright is a law. It is not an inherent human right. Thus, if Russia does not have a law outlawing what AllOfMP3.com is doing, it is not only legal, but the real question is... If AllOfMP3.com is legal, why have they not started a mass lawsuit campaign in the US to sue everybody that calls them theifs. It is clearly liable, and should be prosecuted.
Hey, they're just trying to follow the capitalist model laid out by the fine upstanding corporate role citizens in the good ole land o' virtue - the U.S. Oh, you meant that to be ironic, right?
Beyond the theft or copyright infringement argument, your analogy to theft of services is not valid in this case, as in the instance of theft of services you are depriving the service provider of something very valuable; their time. To compare a finite amount of service (analog) and infinite (digital) amount is not valid; this difference is where the concept of deprivation is introduced, and thus where the concept of theft is born. Whether this is not a worthwhile argument, and whether everyone should accept the common usage of theft in this case is not relevant to the fact that theft and copyright infringement are two different things. I also think it is a bit disingenuous to try to equate the debate over the usage of these two terms with the debate over copyright infringement. Essentially you state that anyone who argues over the term usages believes copyright infringement is legal, which is simply not true. I for one recognize the illegality of copyright infringement under, for example, current U.S. law, however I still find the discussion regarding the use of relevant terminology to be interesting.
When I want to buy new music, my purchasing process it pretty simple:
1- Load RIAA Radar
2- If label is a RIAA member, buy from allofmp3.com
3- If not, buy CD.
I love allofmp3, it's really how online music stores should be. I believe it to be legal, but I frankly don't really care on way or the other... I'm not sleeping any less at night. Want me to buy your CD? Make good music, don't put DRM on it and don't make deals with the devil to publish it. Pretty simple.
"American trade negotiators may demand the shutdown of AllofMP3.com as a condition of Russia joining the World Trade Organization"
WHAT THE F**K?!
I think America is getting too big for its boots lately, I won't mention Iraq, but they basically told the Swedes to shut down The Pirate Bay and now they think they can blackmail Russia too - and over such an important thing as the WTO?
OK then America, you shut down Microsoft or we'll kick you out of the UN.
#include <sig.h>
I dunno... You'd think if they would deny Russia entry to the WTO... It would be... I duno... Say... Their support of Iran's nuclear program and their threat to veto any resolution against them?
Although, maybe pirated MP3s are much more of an existensial threat than nuclear weapons.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Why not just replace the word republican with "nazi", democrat with "commie", "homosexual" with "fag", white with "racist", or black with "nigger" too. oh yeah, that is unacceptbile.. how hyppocritical.
what they meant was to slander the idea of fair use and imply that it is immoral to do what the AHRA allows us to do in copying music with home recording devices and handing the tape off to friends. Just because it involves silicon and wires instead of dual cassette decks and magnetized ribbons doen't make it any different.
They continue to use this term to slander and demonize vast swaths of innocent people and innocent actions in their greedy pursuit of control, and do not have a right to use such slanderous language.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
You mean allofmp3 is illegal? We could just as well save those 10 cents a track and download them from torrent?
Ok, if da man says so, who am I to contradict him? Fire up Azureus and be a good citizen!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Take every instance of "theft" and replace it with "copyright infringement" and the arguments will all be the same."
Um, no. Depriving someone of their property seems very immoral, copying information not so much. In fact I argue that using the government force to prop up the business model that is scarcity of information is the behaviour that is immoral - unless you (anyone) have an arguement justifying the morality of using that force.
"Copyright infringement is still illegal, whether it's theft or not."
Yes, an since when is legality equilivant to morality? Since you bring legality up, I remind everyone that the copyright act could be repealed tommrow. Suddenly what was immoral yesterday would be totally ok today?
"The whole 'copyright infringement isn't theft' thing seems to be a crutch of an argument people fall on to ignore the issue."
Not so much as a crutch as they are very different things. As I said above, I think the concept of copyright (i.e. using government to enforce a scarsity of information business model) is itself of dubious morality when applied to individuals (which is a recent phenomenon). I have near nil hesitation over copying information, i have large hestitation over taking or depriving someone of their property - that is the difference and it is huge.
I have seen a few of these stories and NOWHERE in any of them are there any statements from any controlling legal authorities; just a bunch of FUD from the RIAA and it's cronies. Is it or isn't it legal? No one seems to know and if they do, they aren't saying. It does seem pretty cut and dried as to whether or not it is legal there. I have used it and plan on using it again.
The arguement that it is illegal or should be illegal because the Russian equivalent of the RIAA is NOT paying the artists does not make me a bad person for buying their products. If they aren't paying them...and nobody has produced any evidence that that have or have not...how does this make me in the wrong? I have no idea whether any store I have ever been too has justly compensated everyone back up the supply chain adequately if at all. If my job description is to include researching these things then the RIAA owes me a fortune for doing their work; and you had better believe I charge a fortune for my services.
Let's look at it from a different perspective. Shopping at this place is like going to the mall. It is out in the open. It operates like every other store in the mall. It has been there for several years. AND!...it even provides what looks to be like pretty legitimate documentation allowing it to be open. If I go down the causeway and eat at a restaurant that has done the same thing but has forged it's business license...is that something I should be taken to jail for? If I go into a clothing store and buy a couple of shirts and a pair of jeans...only to find out later that they are counterfeits, should I go to jail or be fined exhorbitant amounts? Here is another funny perspective on this. Over the years more and more companies have been offshoring..why? It is cheaper...not a little bit but bunches and bunches cheaper. We are told time and time again that it is WISE to patronize these other nations as they have a superior product to offer. In this case of MP3's, they are 100% correct. So what is the problem here? It would seem that they need to better police the Russian RIAA there.
Remember the time about 2 years ago when Chevy didn't pay the steelworkers for making the screws that hold radios in place in their cars and everybody who bought a car from Chevy between the dates of January and June of that year went to jail? Neither do I. Do you remember last year when the American cattle farmers didn't pay for the corn in the cows feed and everybody who bought beef last year had to pay a $25,000.00 fine? I don't either.
Now, if the site is legal, if I were the guy, guys, gal, or gals running this site I would sue the RIAA in court till they bled. Since the only thing it seems to understand is lawsuits...I would sue them, the people in it, any supporters of the RIAA and any others I may have forgotte right out of existence. The RIAA would become the multimedia version of SCO. A small little shadow of it's former self.
They, the RIAA, are screaming for this site to be shutdown. It is still up. I imagine it is legal and THAT is the whole problem here as far as they are concerned.
again.
Musicians should make 80% of the profit from their live shows, and their albums should be free (or whatever the cost of the media is) to promote the concerts. The copyright should protect their music from being covered by others (for money of course) without permission.
The few musicians that make it shouldn't be millionaires!!!! A true musician doesn't play for the money, he/she plays for the love of the art! While a very small percentage get picked up by the "industry;" a ton of talent never get heard because of the recording industry.
Their was no such thing as an "industry" as we know it at the beginning of the 20th century.
So, what changed that model?
GREED!
Dinasors will die. -NOFX
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -Confucius
Ya know what? Everyone loves to bash allofmp3.com bc it's Russian and shady. Well... so what. You want shady? The US firms are a legal mafia outfit. Think about it. They control all avenues worth controlling (radio, advertising, production, etc.) and if you start to encroach on them they make you an offer you can't refuse. Either they buy you out, sue you into oblivion, or both (think mp3.com).
Aside from that I read on their site that some money actually does go to the artist. Not much, and I have no way of verifying that, but take a wild guess how much of that is *my* problem. There are middlemen taking a cut here and in Russia, the difference is here they take a bigger cut and the listener gets screwed worse, whereas the Russians take a smaller cut and the artist gets screwed worse. Take another wild guess why ppl love the Russian site so much.
So yeah, if I ever meet the guys from Social Distortion (which is very possible since I cruise bars in LA a lot) I'll buy them a beer or 5. But don't you dare expect me to cry for them Argentina. I sitting here with a crappy new haircut in "business casual" looking at an hour+ commute home to an apartment. Let them bear the brunt of the industry's greed.
I hate to break it to the crime lords of the American music industry, but allofmp3.com is operating legally within the Russian system. This is NOT piracy.
I just put more money in my account, guess I'll go download a bunch more music I wouldn't buy here in the USA.
Actually they are legal in Russia. Their legality makes sense (if I have this right). Because of the way Russian law governs information technology, they were able to license music as a radio station and their service is basically just "on demand" radio (although you get to keep the songs). 10 cents is a good price for a song. $1 is ridiculous, especially considering how much overhead digital distribution saves (even more if it is done through a P2P network). I think that music companies could make even more money if they sold songs at 10 cents all the time. At that price, I'd buy 500 songs and not even think about it ($50 they never would have made before). Sampling new artists wouldn't be a problem at all, just buy the album. Of course people are too greedy for that to go through, so I'll do what I've done for years and not buy any music at all (no piracy = more money LOL).
P.S. Lets not forget about the multi format, variable bitrate encoding service!! Why can't US companies think up stuff thats actually useful? Instead they waste all their time on DRM. If anyone who works at one of these companies is out there, listen up: I have never bought your crappy music and never will (barely even listen to it). Now I hope your companies go bankrupt and I'm doing my best to ensure that you do.
So wait - selling Cold War NBC leftovers doesn't even muster a UN slap on the wrist, but pirating trivial pop culture content is a showstopper?
Please explain to me how it is a recording industry group concerned about its monopoly could hold up a former world superpower, a nation of significant landmass, natural resources, goods, services and consumers, from joining the World Trade Organization?
While the WTO itself is a seperate subject of discussion, what part of reality did world leaders abandon to put such significance on any one single market as to exclude an entire nation's industry?
What a supereme coup these guys and their ilk have pulled off - the world now cow-tow to the notion owning and controlling ideas, instead of not just preserving and protecting, but fostering the creation of new ones. How shameful, and how disappointing, I see so little concern for this insane set of priorities.
Sorry for the bad spelling and words - I only started learning English 3-4 years ago. Ironically I started to learn so I could come to America, after reading my country man Alexis de Tocqueville and listening to my Dad's old college stories of how independant and voiceful Americans where - so why have not Americans been the first country to say no to what is clearly short sighted greed?
...the WTO joins YOU!
Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
You cannot "remove the economic incentive to steal". That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When you steel from someone, you literally get something for nothing. Legitimate operations cannot compete with that because it costs money to produce music. They need to receive payment for that effort, or they will go out of business. Making and enforcing anti-piracy laws is the only way to stop piracy.
This is egregious. Think about this. China belongs to the WTO. They use slave labor, actively kill and imprison union organizers. They allow massive pollution. They built the environmental holocaust the three gorges dam which now clogs itself with Yangtze river silt. They ban its citizens from owning firearms and use the military and as a police force. They use Yahoo and Google and Cisco technology, services and infrastructure to imprison and execute political dissidents. China executes over 10,000 people a year in an undocumented fashion with a maximum of two appeals.
China can barely call itself anything but a state holding its people hostage with fear and brainwashing. Recently someone in China who was being interviews by Nova or front line was shown a picture of "Tank Man" from Tiananmen square and they DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE IMAGE WAS OF! Maximum censorship OR total fear of even admitting that something against the government ever even happened. This was 4 students in the interview either feigning not knowing what "Tank Man" is or genuinely not knowing about the incident.
Russia who has valuable oil resources and a more European disposition and a moratorium on the death penalty sells a few MP3s in accordance with their local laws - something the pricks at Google (Schmidt) and Yahoo (Terry "Terrorist" Semel) say makes their anti-Chinese citizen policies in assisting the totalitarian authoritarian government with their persecution - and they cant join the WTO.
WHAT A JOKE. This is a total sick joke.
Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
and aren't loopholes what corperate america is so fond of? OH! Only when it benefits them. I see.
Seriously, this is exactly how the US opperates and even being part of the US I support how allofmp3 is behaving. We do enough of the do as I say not as I do as it is.
-Tim Louden
This is what I'm talking about. The "IP" nutcases throw accusations and threats at anyone who isn't also a nutcase. They see 'Pirates' and 'Theives' behind every tree. I simply point out that AllOfMP3.com (to the best of my knowledge) is a legal business, and that calling them theives is liable. What happens? I get accused of commiting a crime, and a threat that I will end up in jail is made.
Given that I have never purchased anything from AllOfMP3.com, I certainly have not broken any copyright, and I certainly will not go to jail for it. (Well... given the current political climate, the lack of commiting a crime is no guarantee of not going to jail for copyright violation.) But, somehow the "IP" zelots seem to think that recognizing Russia as a soveriegn nation makes you a criminal.
Seriously, until the "IP" folks can start to carry on conversations without seeing the boogie man around every corner, they cannot be taken seriously.
Why undocumented. It is documented. It is in the clinical pathology and surgery manuals under the sections related to stem cell harvesting, gland harvesting and organ harvesting.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Damn the man, save the empire!
Perhaps this is all a bunch of bullshit created by the United States in order to shut down allofmp3.com?
Perhaps the Russians mentioned something about music piracy being a problem to them joining the WTO and the U.S. is trying to take the opportunity to try and shut down allofmp3.com
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
I don't think i could say it better. Too bad i'm out of points.
This post is awesome.
That's the same site, you're just instructing it to quit autodetecting your language preferences and use Russian.
You get the same thing from the beginning if your browser indicates it's in russian.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding why this is so "scandalous."
The WTO has already warned the US about outlawing online gambling, but congress is prepared to do just that. You think the WTO is going to kick the US out? I doubt it.
I guess it's just another NYT jourmammal being sensational. Nothing new here, move along.
But I likened buying from allofmp3 as to traveling to a foreign country and buying a souvenir or something and then traveling back home to the USA. It's not a crime to buy something overseas (for most things) and then bring it here. Does it change in Internet land, since I'm still buying something from Russia and storing here in my PC in the USA?
Now their servers are overloaded. Glad I got some music d/l last night. I know they've been around for four years, but this could absolutely change the way we think about music as a commodity. Selling content by the megabyte is a brilliant idea. I would be happy with a limited use/limited time for the content if I got it so cheap, and then I could decide if I liked it enough to fork over 99 cents per song over at Itunes.
Theft is universally morally wrong (Robinhood-like exceptions notwithstanding). It's a very simple, well-understood, very OLD concept. Whether I'm stealing your dead bird, your land or your mp3 player, the concept of theft remains the same. I forcefully, illegally confiscated your tangible, legitimate property therefore directly enriching myself and impoverishing you.
Copyright Infringement, in the other hand is a NEW crime. A civil offense. It had its drawbacks but variants of it were adopted anyways at certain times to try and encourage artists and reward creators much like the patent system was invented to encourage and reward inventors. It is NOT universally, morally wrong. It is also a set of laws that can and SHOULD be altered or abolished if, at any given time, it is not in the interest of the public at large.
Nowadays, greedy corporations use mob-like tactics , bullshit propaganda (don't copy our movies or this poor sound technician will be out of his job and then his family will starve! Think of the children!) and have successfully lobbied politicians with the gobs of money they are making (despite all the rampant piracy they complain about) to make copying movies, songs and programs worse than beating and raping people. The laws on the books are now extremely pro-corporations. Those very same corporations who will act in the worst possible fashion to make a buck (stuff like selling AIDS-tainted medicine so as not to lose money on it). In fact, whenever the law ends up criminalizing ridiculously large numbers of people who are otherwise no threat to the fabric of society to make a few happy (Think prohibition), they are wrong and should not be respected.
Period.
i'm with you on this one, russia should `pull a china` block access to aomp3 for people outside of russia untill they get into the WTO then open it back up again, that my friends is called `pulling a china` or `to pull a china` is to make policies and never inforce them, like the piracy one in china... plenty of `dvd street vendors` and `whore houses` and `everyone is still ripping everything off` in shanghai.
oh sh!t they are at my door.....*(bang)* - brains over the floor
allofmp3 offered to pay (in complience with local law), but they refused so they can bitch better about it
I think Russia is more likely to flip the bird to the WTO than give in to American corporate pressures.
... Er, wait. Forget I said that. *cough*oilinIraq*cough*
Besides, since when do American corporate ideals drive foreign policy?
Music, in remote, undevoloped villages, serves to bring the community together.
Imagine the horror on the faces of theese untainted villagers if they were ever to discover, it would one day tear them appart.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
It is certainly not as important as civil rights.
Be careful. On many levels this IS a civil rights issue. Think about it. Different people have different opinions but copyright and related issues such as fair use ARE civil rights issues in addition to being economic issues. You can't completely separate them.
Like it or not, copyright law is a fundmental pillar of the modern worldwide economy. Software, media, entertainment, publishing, advertising, retail, and even manufacturing all depend on copyright law to varying degrees to efficiently function. You can make a reasonable arguement that copyright law is the fundamental reason the companies that made the computer and software I'm using on right now are able to exist. There is nothing wrong or immoral with that in principle. Everyone reading this has benefited from copyright law to a meaningful degree. Used properly, copyright law enhances economic prosperity and creates an environment of creativity where the works of others are respected and individuals and society both benefit. Used improperly, copyright law concentrates power in the hands of greedy individuals and corporations, unnecessarily criminalies otherwise sensible behavior, and stifles the creative and economic progress of individuals and society. That sounds a lot like a civil rights issue to me.
Now is this company violating US (and most of the world's) copyright laws? From what I can see absolutely. I have little sympathy for those protecting obsolete/harmful laws for their own profit (i.e. the RIAA) or those who knowingly break the law for their own selfish gain without trying to change the law for the benefit of everyone (i.e. Napster). I'm not intimately familiar with them but if Allomp3.com is fighting for reaonable limits and uses for copyright law then I have no quarrel with them, though I doubt that is the case. More likely they are simply a small firm profiting from the work of others while providing little or no return compensation.
This is egregious. Think about this. China belongs to the WTO. They use slave labor, actively kill and imprison union organizers. They allow massive pollution. They built the environmental holocaust the three gorges dam which now clogs itself with Yangtze river silt. They ban its citizens from owning firearms and use the military and as a police force.
But how many dollars do US lose on these activities?
This is about the World Trade Organization -- making money.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Oh ..WAIT! I I forgot about The Pirate Bay fiasco!
This should be quite conclusive proof of just how 'bought' American politicians are by big business.The RIAA serves NO ONE's interest but their own. They will likely perish in the coming age with the technology that is already/becoming available to everyone. Being a member of the WTO gives you the opportunity to exploit non-member countries. WTO uses the fear priciple and serves the NWO. Allofmp3 should tell them to go hold their dicks.
Believe it.
You confused the Union of the Crowns (1603) with the Treaty of Union (1707). The former was when Queen Elizabeth, the last English monarch, died. The bloodletting that accompanied the Tudor monarchy left Elizabeth as the sole survivor of the House.The nearest heir was James VI of Scotland.
The latter was when Queen Anne bribed the Scottish Parliament to vote itself out of existence despite widespread resistance to an unpopular move.
Travelling forward in time at a rate of 1 second per second.
The only way to use PayPal with AllOfMp3 is with an xrost iCard. It seems that xroast is not current accepting new funds, while they find a new "payment provider." Doing a quick Google Groups search, it appears it's been in this state for at least a couple of months. And it seems that the only business using xroast's service, is AllOfMp3.
It perhaps sounds like the US may have put pressure on PayPal to pull support for xroast, as an attempt to get at AllOfMp3?
I'd like to check out of AllOfMp3, but am a bit hesitatant to use a credit card there (although a friend of mine did so a year or so ago, and was quite happy with the service).
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
I checked out the allofmp3 site and listened to a bunch of the preview songs, and it looks like the majority of songs on there are just covers for the actual song. Case and point, Carito by Carlos Vives is obviously not done by the original artist. I found many many more cases just like it. This particular case was really bad - the words weren't even right, and the singer is obviously a gringo :)
Remember the rule - you get what you pay for.
what do you want cheap mp3's or world peace?
:D
you cant have it all
I Predict A Riot
It makes me giggle to read in the headline that "AllofMP3.com May Hinder Russia Joining WTO," which is just a BLATANT lie, since the real source of the hinderance, the one causing all of the uproar, is the RIAA! How long does it usually take for an industry to accept that it has become irrelevant?
I'm sorry sir you seen to have an improper understanding of value in current American culture. Let me illustrate:
value of song copyright > value of human life
Now is it clear?
Sometimes my arms bend back.
This is a smokescreen. Russia is being punished by the US for its stance on many issues such as:
All of this and the embarrassing fact that they hold the G8 presidency and will host the annual summit. (Way to go Clinton!). Do not expect movement on the WTO issue by the US anytime soon.
an ill wind that blows no good
it's not justice that matters, but money. As the pirate bay is shut down illegally (there are no copyrighted files in that server), russian spammers keep operating with total impunity. What does the WTO have to say about that? Why don't they demand the arrest of the top 4 russian spammers? Oh, no, we need to please the RIAA first.
What's special about musicians, that you feel it's right to limit their earning potential, in a way that nobody else's is limited? What gives you the right to pass any sort of moral judgment on musicians who are financially successful?
Suppose I decided that whatever you do for a living, it's absurd that you should be able to become a millionaire? In fact, because your industry did not always exist, there is absolutely no reason it should now! You should be paid only by the hour, and only during the hours you are actually working. Furthermore, you should not even be paid well. That would be morally wrong. You should work because you love your art, and accept payment only reluctantly, and regard it as filthy-- otherwise you are a bad person.
A little bit obnoxious, isn't it?
Lets try this again...
$1.40 for Shakira? Still too much if you ask me.
You couldn't pay me enough to listen to this crap.
Mabbe if money is removed as the motivation for making music perhaps there will be a renaissance of the art of music.
No doubt the masses will still want their sex music that makes them feel like they're black.
Pirate all you want people, it can only be good for the future of music.
P.S. It really pisses me off that the GNAA posts are left alone yet the first time I posted this it was deleted. Unfuckingbelievable.
Personally, I don't want Russia to join, or any other country, and for the existing companies to leave immediately, cease the operation of the WTO and apologize for creating an organization which will commoditize everything in a financial 'race to the bottom' for the cheapest labor regardless of ethics or legality in the countries where the products made, are eventually sold. Somewhere between forcing farmers to use Monsanto seeds in India if they want business and effectively legalizing slavery by endorsing the most unethical of standards through loopholes and subsidy to local government, we'd all (read; not corporations) be better without the fucking WTO.
russia has the most natural resources than any other country in the world and a highly educated population
The latter gradually trickles out as the thorough but rigid Soviet educational system slowly crumbles apart, and a bit too profit-oriented establishments emerge instead. There is still too much political resistance to establish any kind of a modern educational system here.
Add to that a brain drain the size of one small city per year, and the circumstance that for every educated professional, there is a vodka guzzling prole, a corrupt anything-for-a-fee "public servant", a teeth grinding armchair patriot with a persecution complex about anything concerning Russia in the world... The potential of becoming a larger version of Nigeria becomes very real.
My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
Allow me to explain. The WTO is about money. Human life cannot be measured in money, ergo human life is worthless.
Pardon the cynicism.
If you get this, we're 10 of a kind.
To phrase it more properly, the RIAA is hindering the WTO from allowing Russia to join. (In Soviet Russia reference unintentional.)
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
You are confusing the World Trade Organization with some other entity. The only things the WTO concerns itself with is trade treaties and pacts. It is entirely economic in nature, and it is driven in part by IP rights.
The only things you might be able to say bad about China that the WTO might possibly consider is the high level of copyright infringment. They do, however, have copyright law that is in line with WTO standards and make some attempt at enforcement, therefore they are within the WTO.
Of course, the real reason they are in the WTO is so we (the US and EU) can push them around as far as tariffs, inport/export fees and taxes, subsidies, etc. You see, we are very dependant on much more of the stuff coming out of china than we are of the stuff coming out of russia (oil notwishtanding).
As bad as their human rights situation is, it really has little to do with the WTO. Well, except in the fact that if their human rights were better there may conceivably be less need for the citizens to violate IP.
-Adam
I thought slave labor and anti-union (not that I like unions) governments were frowned upon.
We are talking about FREE trade not slave trade.
My point is is that there is a long documented problem of people in China getting SCREWED by employers and nothing is done, yet, MP3's being downloaded in accordance with local laws (license fees are paid) and the buck stops.
We, the "civilized" world, and members of the WTO should be buying goods where the workers were paid as promised.
As it stands today in China (PRC), that often is not the case.
When you buy form the PRC you suppress humanity and violate the rights of workers. Russia is a kitty cat compared to the lion of Evil the PRC is.
Apparently.
Slave labor and not paying people for a days work - it isnt uncommon in China for people to put in seasonal work without pay and then at the end of the season (3-6 months) the employer does not pay up. There is no recourse.
And if they act up, get pissed and complain, Google, Yahoo and Cisco are there to help the government put them away - sometimes for good.
Oh come on. You're not seriously going to claim that the Welsh are speaking English are you?
Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
Seriously, 30 years ago the issue was that there was a face off between capitalism and socialism, around 20 years ago the debate was mostly settled with the fall of the Soviet Union- in its ashes a capitalist Russia arose.
Now we're angry because they do capitalism better? Seriously, maybe in another 20 years we will learn to applaud the ingeinuity of the Russian capitalist. I, for one, just gave them 20 USD.
Amnesty International has released the following statements:
In 2003, 80 percent of all known executions took place in China. In China, limited and incomplete records available to Amnesty International at the end of the year indicated that at least 726 people were executed, but the true figure was believed to be much higher: a senior Chinese legislator suggested in March 2004 that China executes "nearly 10,000" people each year. At least 108 executions were carried out in Iran. Sixty-five people were executed in the USA. At least 64 people were executed in Vietnam.
"In China - the country that accounts for around 80% of all executions - a person can be sentenced and executed for as many as 68 crimes, including non-violent crimes such as tax fraud, embezzlement and drug offences. 1,770 executions were reportedly carried out in China during 2005. However, a Chinese legal expert was recently quoted as stating the true figure for executions is more like 8,000."
HA-ha!
Take care,
Mark
There is a solution...
I'm a member.
The same guys who made their profit by printing even the tiniest piece of paper in china are whining about people buying&downloaing in those countries!
I want to see those guys going ater the customers - they have no chance to win even a penny.
It's legal for AllOfMP3 to sell in Russia.
It's legal to buy for the best price.
BTW: WTO? Will break in the next ten years.
China doesn't give a nickel about it. They have cirumvented every negoitation
in the last ten years.
China also doesn't care about patents.
And which country has the biggest industry growth? China.
Guess they did something right...
I mean every one knows that the U.S.A. is the cause of ALL problems in the world.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
TFA mentions (in paragraph two) that "American trade negotiators darkly warned that the Web site could jeopardize Russia's long-sought entry into the World Trade Organization" but there's no backup for this at all -- the quotes are from an RIAA VP and the director general of the international organization of collecting societies.
... but it's just as easy to believe that they're just saber-rattling, trying to play up their influence, and as usual claim the sky is falling. Not to imply that the Times might ever miss a fact-checking opportunity or anything, but it's still worth asking:
Of course, the RIAA has been able to influence American law, so it's certainly easy to believe they could influence our foreign policy
Any supporting evidence for the potential impact on WTO negotiations?
Its complete BS. Besides, if anything, the US is the last place on Earth desiring Russia in the WTO, so I wouldn't be surprised if more of these pseudo-"reasons" for not joining WTO crop up.
I use AllOfMP3. It's the only place I can buy Russian music. I don't give a damn about the RIAA-sponsored shit they also peddle. In the end, it's legal for me, as a Russian citizen, to buy RUSSIAN music from a russian site. Assholes.
WHAT A JOKE. This is a total sick joke.
The real joke is to say that Russia has a much better human rights record than China. Think about this. A particularly brutal war is carried out in Chechnya, the Duma is effectively neutered, courts brought to heel, political opponents are hounded and even sent to prison camps.
But since Russia has a shady $0.02/megabyte MP3 site, why, Vladimir Putin might as well be the greatest guy since good old George Washington so far as you're concerned! (Except for that whole slaveholding bit, of course.)
Punished? I don't think Russia needs the WTO or the US for the matter anymore. Although, Russia will indeed be a member of WTO on its own terms, when dollar falls a few points further against ruble (has falled about 20% for the last 5 years) and the energy market allows Russia to open energy trading on own soil, stimulating ruble demand. The US is pretty much stuck in the middle of two failing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, weak international stance, unpopular administration and is now being pushed out of the former Soviet Union and Asia. I also noticed Russia's opening of military bases in Siria and a new naval base in Mediterranean. It's rather ironic, that the US almost got us to believe it can get as far as Ukraine, but it seems, the collapse of the new superpower is getting closer: Russia has learned a lesson and managed to survive and rise, whereas the US still keeps us curious of what the outcome of the fall of the Empire is going to be... yawnnn... Baltic states? You mean those with the governments that endorse Nazis? Don't think they are there for a long time.
I have a choice, as much as let's say Wal-Mart, to buy goods from the business that offers the most competitive pricing and quality. It's business and it doesn't seem to faze any Wal-Mart customers that they offer such low prices by using slave labor produced goods and exploitation tactics against their employees. I'm told by many businesses that outsourcing is a GOOD thing, nevermind the small public outcry of people that have lost their jobs, they will find new ones, nevermind, move along and keep buying our cheap products.
Why is it that now if an individual decides to outsource their music purchases it is wrong? That's rubish
animals from poachers. But will that save the industry?
In the capitalism, one uses an opportunity to profit, instead of taking oppressive measures to beat money out from people. That is a free market. Digital Rights protection does not correspond to that principle. As a concept, it is dead-born.
70 years ago, the only possibility for a musician to earn money was to give live concerts. Then, technical progress, at some level of its development, has made possible mass-circulating of recorded media, and thus formed the possibility to make enormous money on records. As a result, we have present pop-culture. But now the same technical progress brings circulation and distribution possibilities to new level. In reality, recorded media now can be freely accessible for anyone. Thus, eliminating the previous great possibility to profit from records. Besides, pop-culture now flies in the digital direction. Already now a digital game is much more entertaining than a sound album for the same price, even for adults. What to say about our children! That is why traditional recorded media distribution empire is virtually dead now.
DRM, in that light, is only profitable to software vendors. That is why Microsoft, Apple, etc. are so eager to participate. They are going to profit on record companies, taking share from their profits. To me, it looks like a parasitic activity on the dead body of the record industry.
I mean every one knows that the U.S.A. is the cause of ALL problems in the world.
No, you're not. You're just working really hard on it.
Has english text with prices in US dollars.
The spam MUST be for US companies!!!
More appropriately, how many dollars does the US gain from these activities?
Problems are like gifts, it's better to give than to receive
No explosive hydrogen, no poisonus radioactive isotopes, all using existing infrastructure and linked directly into the natural carbon cycle.
The only problem I can see might be the patents ...
Once again an example of how globalization is supposed to work. It's perfectly ok if corporations move their operations in less developed countries to save money. Nobody cares if they kill jobs when they leave. But as soon as there is a chance for the average consumer to gain advantage of globalization it's piracy or otherwise illegal.
But China didn't mess with RIAA, did they? ;-)
Who makes the rules is who decides what is right and what is wrong.
So say we all
Hmm.
The assumed formula for copyright:
<ARTIST> -WORK-> <PUBLIC>
<ARTIST> <-MONEY- <PUBLIC>
How it REALLY works:
<ARTIST> -WORK-> <CORPORATION>
<ARTIST> <-$-ONE TIME- <CORPORATION>
then
<CORPORATION> -WORK-> <PUBLIC>
<CORPORATION> <-$$$$-EVERY TIME- <PUBLIC>
I'm sure that even if Russia close allofmp3, they will think out new reason not to let russia enter WTO.
... an alternative interpretation for the Act of Union is that the Scots nobility and merchant classes sold their country down the river for personal gain. 400,000 English pounds were paid to cover Scotland taking on part of the English national debt. Given the nature of society at the time I think it's safe to say not much of this found its way into the pockets of more than a few.
I'm not kidding. If you have the power, please do both right away.
I've lived in the USA all of my life, and I think the USA would be better off if both of those things happend.
It's legal to buy music from allofmp3.com in Norway. This have been cleared with Norwegian Government.
e leoginternett/article1146078.ece
Source: (in Norwegian)
http://www.aftenposten.no/forbruker/pengenedine/t
Any russian can download any amount of music (video, games, software etc) for free (i.e. $0). But if _american_ get possibility to download song for $0.1 instead of $1.0 from their site - ALARM, ALARM - it is piracy! The site must be closed at any cost!
> Dear US citizen,
> Who is running your country?
The same entities that will soon be running yours.
Why is this modded troll? It's widely known that China sells organs from execution victims.
Except that downloading/listening to a song doesn't consume it.
"By this system we encourage artists to produce content that people like."
If you produce only for the sake of selling, you are a salesperson, not an artist. By this system we get Britney instead of Bach.
"DRM sucks, but people enjoying content they dont pay for also sucks."
Does it suck if I look at a sunrise and -- gasp -- enjoy it, too? Does that need to be fixed?
"In a capitalist system, its the payment in dollars from the consumer to the producer that enables the market to function. Take that away and the system will mean no more production."
Unless -- gasp -- the producer enjoys producing whatever-it-is for its own sake. Like maybe poetry. Or sunrises. "Until now, its been academic, because with physical goods, free-riding wasnt possible. Now we live in an age where it IS possible for people not to pay for what they consume in some industries."
Most hilarious bit of idiocy in the whole post. Free-riding wasn't invented by Shawn Fanning in 1995. It has always been possible. What the digital age does to free-riding is make it so that it doesn't hurt anyone. The "commons" being tragically free-ridden upon never diminishes.
"There has to be a solution. I think DRM is a crap solution, but unfortunately I can't think of a better one that actually works, and removes the free-rider problem." The problem is not that DRM is the best answer to this quandary where people share music with each other. Pay close attention here:
Whoever produces anything, including songs, is free to attach whatever stupid-ass crap they want to it. Like for example DRM. I don't want that stuff. If you do, go buy it. Have fun. But what the hell are you doing trying to make sure every machine I possess, in my house, "supports" the DRM that I want nothing to do with.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Have you ever analyzed the cost of piracy to you. I don't mean the "lost sales". As you acknowledge, the people who download your thing don't represent lost sales. They aren't going to give you money for the game. They are going to download it or ignore it.
I mean the actual marginal cost of the downloads. Hint: it's zero. Now subtract from this "cost" the number of sales made by a friend, or friend-of-a-friend, of someone who downloaded/cracked the game.
If the result of this calculation is zero, you should be indifferent to "piracy". If it is less than zero, you should encourage it.
P.S.: I know this leaves out a supposedly-important sector: people are ready to pay for the game until they become aware that they can have it for free, and then download it. I'd love a business person's estimate of how often that actually happens.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
There are too many goods that are "Made in China" for anyone to try and do anything about China.
Compare this with Russia.
How often do you buy a cheap item that says "Made in Russia" at Walmart? Probably never.
There are vested interests in having China become part of the WTO and those interests are quite capable of ignoring all of the bad things China does to ensure it got there. Why?
Because allowing all of those bad things to happen in China is why "Made in China" equals cheap goods. The ability to manufacture cheap goods outweighs any losses from the pirate DVDs that are made here and sold either locally or overseas. Sure there is something in the news about it every now and then but nothing ever really happens.
If China ever starts to have human rights or something like the FDA or any sort of regulation, lots of American companies are going to start having heart ache because they'll need to find somewhere else to manufacture their cheap junk and building new factories and infrastructure elsewhere will be quite costly.
Compare those vested interests with those in Russia and what do you have?
Right now the Chinese government is buldozing parts of Beijing it doesn't want to admit exist and/or the public to see in 2008.
'Looks like a DOS attack against AllOfMP3.com went into effect Sunday June 04.
Who, pray tell, could have done such a thing?
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
One country has a mildly totalitarian government that likes to kill radical Muslims (what large powerful isn't doing that these days), loses territory in these wars (Afghanistan is no longer Russian property, along with Uzbek, Tajik, etc), has a big mafia and some mafia related killings and banishment of corrupt oligarchs.
The other has taken over Tibet. The other is threatening Taiwan, a free and democratic country, with full scale war over an illegal demand for "re-unification". One has an organized totalitarian authoritarian government which executes dissidents.
I think it is safe to say who the bigger bastard is. CHICOMs are way worse than Putin.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1412 467.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4921 116.stm
So on so fourth. By the way the situation today is not any different. Also, while China is a 1billion+ population the speed with which they match donors is beyond suspicious. Combined with the number of crimes punishable with death this brings some extremely interesting thoughts to my mind. And not only mine...
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
"Music industry officials claim that {insert source of potential lost profits here}" I could just as easily have claimed that "Internet activity caused substantial harm to the BBS industry", considering how I ran a multinode BBS at one time. It was a tidy source of income until that "Internet" thingy went public and killed off our BBS (and thousands like it.) But I didn't go around complaining and suing ISPs and users. I just went on to other things. But on the other hand, I'm not a record company executive or an RIAA member.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I agree that they do this. Im with you! but they are secretive about executions.
Easy Russian reply, and its in a language Europeans and American politicians understand!
No WTO for Russia, then no Russian gas and oil for Europe or any country allied with the complainers. If the Chinese can slaughter over 10000 people in Tian-an-Men and deny it and later make deals with the United States government to get the dissidents who made it to the United States and Canada deported back to China to be executed like their families were, then the Russians are free to make any decision that they like! We threaten sanctions, then Russia should threaten global thermonuclear war and the deaths of billions if the greedy copyrighters are not brought to justice. Muoooooosick is just the tip of this 'intellectual property' iceberg. At stake is worldwide exploitation of the working class by a few 'holders of scraps of paper'.
WTO = World TRADE Organisation. Not the World Council of Churches. They don't make moral judgements, it's only about business. Actually, for China to join the WTO it had to make lots of concessions on subsidised industry and agriculture. Peasant farmers are starving because of some of these rules imposed by the WTO.
(value of corporate profits) > (value of human life)
Isn't that just a special case of Spock's formula? "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
I mean, a corporation is: (n) 3. A group of people combined into or acting as one body.
So,
(value to group of many people) > (value to a few people's lives)
Blame Spock, or JS Mill.
It's hard to beleive that the US Govt. would kowtow to the music industry (music, movies, whatever ...) like this.
... they're not saving lives or building rockets or anything ...
...
These people are just singing songs after all
GEEZE
Agreed!!!!
...), and that their now possible membership to this particular country club is in jeopardy.
..) and whoever else they can lump in.
........
Since when did obtaining someone elses pattern of 1's and 0's online, executing such pattern in through a specific piece of software, and the end resulting producing music, TRUMP human rights, civil ideals, fair trade*, and a prospering future??
Yes, I know I brush a lousy painting, but come on. Does the **AA REALLY HAVE SO MUCH POWER as to influence whether the LARGEST country in the world (physically) can join THE (*****EMPHASIS ADDED******) WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATOIN???
The IRONY & HYPOCRISY here kills me, when you look at RUSSIA's history (communism
On a more personal note, I'd like RUSSIA to give the WTO and the rest of the world the middle finger on this issue, and pull a human rights card pointing at China, USA (illegal immigrant workers
In Soviet Russia, you trump 'illegal' mp3's
In the rest of the world, 'illegal' mp3's trump you!!!!!
Do you really think Jessica Alba's musical talent merits the money she makes? Please name a pop star that you think deserves the money they get. I can't think of a single one.
I just think the industry is super corrupt and CDs are way too expensive. Most of the money goes to executives, and the vast majority of musicians in this coutry languish in poverty. If they were paid based on how much money venues could charge for a performance, then their ability to attract an audience would be the limiting factor on their incomes. They could still become millionaires, but they would have to play large sold out venues a lot.
I am a computer technician, I can probably make between 20k-100k depending where I work, but there is no chance I will be a milionaire doing this. I do it becuase I can live on it, and I enjoy what I do. Computer techs shouldn't be making millions and neither should a few lucky musicians who happen to know the right people.
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -Confucius