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China Files Case Against Intel's Wireless Network
Krishna Dagli writes "China has launched a case against American chipmaker Intel's near-monopoly on encryption standards for wireless local area network (WLAN) equipment, state press reported Monday."
Can we all just ignore this story until xinhua / china decide to release some information on what (specifically), the IEEE is supposed to have done?
-1 Lack of detail.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
since when does china care about patent law?
also, how is it intels fault theyve put a ton of money into researching it? (that may be slightly ignorant of the actual facts, but if they wrote the standards, it stands to reason they created it)
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
*China* is accusing Intel of unethical behavior?!
Hah!
Another example of CHINA flexing it's future economic strength?
Isn't anyone getting bored with all the anti-China articles posted on /.? It's as if everyone is trying to outnumber the anti-Microsoft ones.
I think it's great that China is taking a stand on Intel's near-monopoly on wireless tech. I think we need more incompatible specifications to incite more innovation, etc, etc.
... the world has lunched a case against China's near-monopoly on copyright abuse, human rights, cheap label, ...
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
Evil against Evil. Although I'd argue that since Intel doesn't sell the organs of executed political prisoners, they are the lesser evil.
So, I guess that makes Intel the Jason in this conflict.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
... and in 2003 tried to force multinationals wanting to sell wireless computer equipment to support its proprietary and secret encryption standard called WAPI.
Exactly how is it better to replace one proprietary standard with another. If they were serious about this, perhaps proposing an open standard would be a bit more constructive.
Here's a more helpful link, that also a) isn't a verbatim AFP story with irritating advertising "links" and b) doesn't have a current forum thread on "The future and the ways of the "Jew"" (which is even more moronic than it sounds -- how dimwitted do you have to be to spell "rich" with a "t"?).
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Our elected leaders in DC will not know what to do about this as it presents a major problem for them. That is who do they support?
Big Business or China?
Since most of them in DC (GOPer & DEMs) are in love with both whose side do they support?
There is to be a 90 minute DVD about this issue. It will be released in the U.S. in July for $14.99 or get it now, burned to a cd... from a Chinese convenience shop near you.
Funnypics
Yeah, it's about time they grew up and started killing other countries' populace like the grown-ups are.
"" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
it's often interesting to see the reaction of powerful folks not getting what they want on demand.
Seems like the toys are getting thrown straight out of the pram.
Or is this significant of something deeper going on?
As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
How does that explain Americans with the same behavior?
Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.
And how is any country with military and intelligence organizations running out of control any different?
(Couldn't resist.)
ERROR 144 - REBOOT ?
Why do you worship corpses so much? Do you believe that they will rise up (resurect) in whatever shape they happen to be at some point in the future?
I think China simply wants to eavesdrop.
I would not trust Chinese encryption, would you?
China can save the world if only they would make
cheap solar panels that run air conditioners.
I am in the market for a solar powered air conditioner that
is environmetally friendly.
Using coal to generate electricity is just not helping the problem.
China could have many legit beefs and concerns with regards to western companies (eg. the near-monopoly of Windows on the desktop), so why are they complaining about an IEEE standard supported and implemented by many vendors?
I'm guessing that some person who's company developed the Chinese alternative has an uncle on the Politburo.
If this is the case, it's a shame - there is so much that our governments could do for us if they weren't so corrupt. If this is not the case, then I hope someone will explain what is going on.
WAPI
Note to slashdot repliers: Enough with the ad hominem attacks. If you don't like what China's doing, talk about what they're doing, not what you like/dislike about China.
We've all got our personal opinions on politics and the politics of technology, but if our words are to mean anything, we've got to appeal to higher standards.
Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
Certain people deserve ad homminem atacks and China is one of them. Cencorship is bulshit period!
if they are about china, they all converge to the cencorship? hmmm. interesting logic.
so... Fuck China.
Reverse engineer? 802.11i is an open standard, and it seems like Intel was defending that in the face of what would have been a proprietary standard that China would stand to benefit from.
Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.
come on, what civilized country hasn't oppressed and tortured people before? can you say: japanese internment, chinese/japanese antiforeignism in california, segregation, cuba (where we had concentration camps during the spanish american war), the philippines...
that said, i agree with the first statement. this is probably a result of governments pushing technological standards to gain international standing.
okay, mod me down
Consider the princelings of China. They and their parents are members of the Chinese communist party. These princelings live, for long stretches, in the West and enjoy its freedoms and prosperity. Yet, the parents of the princelings fully support and enforce the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.
I have personally met some of these princelings.
Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.
Here is another, more damning, example. In 2001 in Northern California, the Chinese consulate in San Francisco sponsored an anti-Falun-Gong meeting conducted in Santa Clara, California. Chinese students from San Jose State University, Stanford University, and other neighboring universities, attended the meeting. The Chinese student associations at the respective universities fully supported the anti-Falun-Gong meeting.
These Chinese students enjoy the freedom and prosperity in the West but, actually, support the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.
Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.
By now, you should realize that the authoritarian government in China exists for one reason: the majority of Chinese either support the authoritarian government or are indifferent to it.
before modding down the F**K china posts, please consider my point of view here.
Some things China does are completely UNacceptable, but since we complain,
they don't change anything & then we kinda say "we tried" & just accept their behaviour.
Eventually we become used to it & we are no longer even bothered
when we hear about whats going on there. It Becomes Normal. thats just china, what can you do.
Thats why it's important to hear & say FUCK CHINA - in CAPS none the less
it's not OK, & unless we keep making noise about this stuff,
it WILL be coming to a neighbourhood near you,
oh yes, it will....
are not a good and a bad label to judge a person. i believe they are used to judge what a person is doing on a per-case basis. a locksmith could steal too.
Of course they're upset since it means they can't foist their backdoors on anyone without an immense amount of difficulty. Would you trust Beijing gummint encryption?
Stands to reason, any country that kills its own populace certainly would do something like this.
As opposed to countries that systematically kill population of other countries (uh, who might that be)?
The US Government should tell the Chinese that we will start giving a damn about whether an Intel monopoly hurts their homegrown wireless industry when they start giving a damn about all the software piracy and intellectual property theft going on in their country.
yeah link to the site that claims there were no hijackers.
It doesn't really matter what wireless encryption standards one uses, you can't trust them anyway. First of all, the companies involved have already demonstrated their incompetence with WEP. Second, I think at this point you have to assume that any encryption that's encoded in a chip has a backdoor in it and that a significant number of people will know about it.
If you want secure wireless communications, you have to use software encryption implemented in open source software.
"Yeah, it's about time they grew up and started killing other countries' populace like the grown-ups are."
Like Tibet.
YOU HAVE FAILED IT!
Don't they kidnap Paul Otellini and tell him that 18 months ago he screwed their wireless networking domination to allow free standards?
Don't worry, Craig Barrett will rescue him, while Andy Grove masterminds the coverup, all while on a "Moore's Law " tour of east Asia.
Legalize and the right to a democratic networking standard .... China is indeed becoming more westernized all the time ... hahahaha ... I love it.
As they appear to be suggesting that the IEEE "leant" on ISO to stop the Chinese Wifi standard becoming accepted. Because a large part of this was from Intel, and lets face it suing the IEEE is going to look REAL dumb, they've decided to go after the big bad wolf.
I love the idea of clandestine meetings around ISO and IEEE meetings, more people would go if that was true!
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Maybe they DON'T for the most part (until it starts to HURT them....), but maybe this is tit-for-tat as regards the recent lame-assed US assault on Lenovo.
The US arms of government and maybe even a few tech companies worried about losing business to Lenovo. When it was IBM they competed with, it would have probably been unpatriotic to bash IBM. It CERtainly would have been economical suicide, for IBM could have brough all resources to bear against such companies.
But, with it being Lenovo, and with all the patriotism/nationalism drivel sloshing around the planet, it's easy to blame or accuse a Chinese laptop company of being a threat to US national security.
Well, now Lenovo, and other Chinese tech companies, can via the Chinese government make noise through tech channels. At least they're doing it in the right channels, or so it seems.
So, if the US can ban or cause wrinkles for Lenovo and other aspiring companies (particularly when the hardware is made mostly in the US and in Mexico) trying to sell in and outside the US, then it's fair game for China to call the standards into question. Just enough to make people look up and question whether the IEEE has some actual or tenuous link to US NSA hunger for backdoors and data traps...
Unfounded or not, it wouldn't hurt to look for and block those traps. If they're found to exist, then China can cause a majjjoooorrrr storm without expending too many resources at the national level (as opposed to the business level).
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Then why do people take so much offence when people say 'Fuck USA', or the government?
I'll always stand up to Bush's imperialism, why aren't the American people.
At the end of 2003, WPA gear was pretty widespread: Most broadcom routers like the Linksys WRT54G, for example. Since WPA implemented most of 802.11i (WPA2), while 802.11i was finalized, it just shows that China is just doing a bit of nationalistic shoving. Does it really matter? Nope. And the chest beating slashdot jocks aren't much better.
Why does any of this matter? Intel-based processors are going to support 802.11i no matter what the ITU has to say, and China is going to mandate whatever they're going to mandate, again no matter what the ITU has to say. Isn't this just a matter of face?
Oh, they have - namely in Tibet, Vietnam, Korea and Cambodia.
During the entire existence of the CSA, it almost never staged any demonstration demanding justice. No demonstrations condemned Beijing's treatment of thousands of Tibetans. No demonstrations condemned Beijing's treatment of thousands of prisoners, whose organs were harvested for sale to Taiwanese customers. No demonstrations condemned Chinese treatment of workers in Chinese factories. (By contrast, numerous student groups of American citizens in American universities in the USA have criticized the actions of the American government in Iraq, Cambodia, etc.)
The only time that the CSA held a demonstration was right after the American air force accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy, killing 2 Chinese spies in Serbia. The spies were relaying telemetry to the Serbian military.
You tell me. Is there a difference between American morality and Chinese "morality"?
Anyone can verify my claims. Just consult old articles from the "Stanford Daily" around the time of the Serbian incident. The CSA was f*cking silent except that one time.
Then, in 2001, carloads of these hypocrites attend an anti-Falun-Gong meeting in Santa Clara, California.
If that is not the definition of F*CKER, then I do not know what is.
They submitted something, it was voted and it was rejected.
They dit not get away with what they wanted and complained that something was not fair.
I think they are just not used to a democratic process.
Nothing new here, move on.
Looks to me like ISO just was not bribable and IEEE was not for sale either...
Note to slashdot repliers: Enough with the ad hominem attacks. If you don't like what China's doing, talk about what they're doing, not what you like/dislike about China.
Because you reply to no post in particular, and because there is variation of opinion on this topic one could argue that your predictable appeal is ad hominem as well. Strong well supported opinions should be welcome on this forum. "Can we call get along" pablum such as yours just takes up space.
I personally find China's accusation of collusion to be laughable. China cannot easily establish technical standards because (deservedly) no one trusts them.
an ill wind that blows no good
It's International Organization for Standardization, despite what the article says.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
"Isn't this just a matter of face?"
Much like VHS vs Beta.
This should be part of your rights online. I welcome our Chinese monopoly Chinese human rights violation overlords. :P
You got the touch!
On the contrary, there are differences of hypocrisy. The magnitude of Chinese hypocrisy is shocking.
Further, this particular form of hypocrisy is not exhibited by the American public in general. The typical Chinese supports human rights only for himself but does not give a damn about the human rights of others.
By contrast, the typical American supports human rights for both herself and others.
That is the core difference between American morality and Chinese "morality". Look closely at the membership of college branches of Amnesty International (AI). Ethnic Chinese of the first and second generation are overrepresented at engineering colleges and business colleges but are shockingly underrepresented at meetings of AI. If any Slashdotter doubts what I say, I encourage him to prove me wrong! Walk into the next weekly meeting of AI at your local college. You will likely see no Chinese at that meeting.
F*ck Chinese society.
No prizes for guessing where you are from, no doubt the former land of the free and home of the brave. The cowards are the people who started the war and gave away their rights due to fear. Any brain fuc*ked moron can use violence-it takes brains you so obviously lack to be a pacifist. Crawl back under your rock as*hole. The US-Land of the facist and home of the coward.(Oh yes and the murdering, incompetant, cowardly army)
To be honest I put Falun Gong in the same bucket as scientology, another cult of personality, so in a way I can see why it is being suppressed by the Chinese. Not that I support killing anyone for their beliefs, but it is the time-honoured solution, and apparently one of those few traditions China has not let go of...
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
What, no extra offtopic modifier?
Tell me about NAFTA, that it's a free-trade agreement. Yet it's free for the US not for Canada or Mexico.
Come now, NAFTA is just as advantageous for large Mexican and Canadian firms as it is for large US firms.
That is, after all, what it's attempting to be: A benefit for the largest of corporations in North America, at the expense of the US and Canadian working class.
See, given the wage equalizing effect it has (bringing US, Canadian, and Mexican wages for various types of work toward an average between the countries, its most positive effect (excluding on corporations and the super-rich) is on Mexican laborers (who now stand to make $1 an hour instead of $0.50, for example). Contrast this with American workers, who now command less wages and job security because of their new easier replaceability ("No strikes, no raises, no benefits, or we'll just lay off all your asses and move this factory to Mexico").
So basically I'm saying NAFTA isn't lopsided in favor of Americans; it's lopsided in favor of the rich. Greed is usually surprisingly blind to petty issues like nationality, race, religion, and culture. Example: the US's Business Party, I mean, Republican Party's constant whoring of itself to the Christian Right.
The Chinese should be ones to talk. They are usually far from perfect!
They just want leverage against Intel in order to get a better licensing agreement. Or possibly they want some sort of backdoor for snooping encrypted traffic. Believe me, the Chinese gov't is not interested in the fairness or unfairness of monopoly.
Peace, or Not?
Brains are in short supply for pacifists too.
The truly brainy people knew from the start that war would be bad. They also haven't forgotten that avoiding war could have been far more costly.
We'll never be able to try the alternative to see how bad it would have been. Such is life.
The Xinhua report is particularly odd because it says China "launched a case," which implies legal action, possibly in an international venue. But if you read on, they filed two appeals alleging ethical violations. These violations, according to reports over the last few months, include people suggesting that unless China publishes their entire specification for WAPI, that there might be elements in the standard that enable backdoors, etc. China doesn't want to publish but they want to be a standard. That's a problem.
I've been writing about this for years over at Wi-Fi Networking News, and what's interesting is that when I suggest a Chinese government sponsored proprietary standard might have the ability to be tapped very easily, I get a lot of interesting comments posted about how I'm paranoid. Today's post on this set of appeals has seen a good mix of comments.
Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
Iraq create its own problems by invading Kuwait.
* lon3st4r *
I'm sure the chinese goverment would love to have a WiFi standard that they could easily eavesdrop on
I am in the market for a solar powered air conditioner that
is environmetally friendly.
You are looking for a very large array. Bring lots of bucks. You are looking for a large battery to cover overcast days. Bring lots of bucks. You are looking for a high effeciency air conditioner to reduce the size of the needed solar panels and battery. Visit Home Depot. You are looking for an effecient way to get the DC power to AC power with little power lost. Bring lots of bucks and look up Outback Power Systems.
Do research of off grid living. Most people off grid look to better insulation and other cooling methods instead of a large energy sucking heat pump to remove unwanted heat. Reducing heat build-up in the first place is the first step. Start with effecient appliances and lighting. Use a laptop. Use heat storage to keep daytime heat peaks down.
The truth shall set you free!
..and the most dumb nation worldwide came to solve the problem. Of course the problem wasn't solved but many others ocurred.
Whether it is Yahoo helping the Chinese Communist government oppress its own people by turning them over for imprisonment for comments posted on websites, or companies like Intel, who set worldwide standards for connection and communication being acted against over their standards, the force of the massively growing Chinese economy is shaking freedom and rights worldwide. Even if China somehow doesn't come to set worldwide standards (it will) companies will make capitalistic decisions not to maintain two standards, one western and free, the other Chinese and destructive of rights. The Chinese standard will probably prevail due to the extent of their market and greed. This "blowback" from dealing with China is very disturbing.
I suggest that those who complain about how "unfairly" China is being treated in this kind of discussion may be Chinese. Not all of course, but I have to wonder about someone who equates anti-communism with "racism."
E Proelio Veritas.
China has accused the makers of the technology developed by the chipmaking giant Intel of unethical behaviour... Did I really just see China accusing others of ethical violations? I wonder when the last time Intel employees were jailed/killed/"disappeared" because they didn't agree with their employer...
And now you're pretending the innocent finally? After insulting the Chinese all together in your posts and arrogantly dismissing others' patient explanation to you about subtle differences between Western and Chinese culture, huh?
I am a Chinese, now living in the UK. I've seen assholes in China and I've seen assholes here. I would never view the English or the Irish as rogue nations when the drunk asshole I met on the street happened to be an English or Irish. That's something we called racisim, in the East and West alike.
I don't know about 808140, but I agree with what he said. Even if he were indeed a Chinese, which I'd be very glad to learn, that does not make his point less valid.
You might have been to China. But your presumptious attitude has failed you when you had a wonderful chance to learn and appreciate the greatness of another culture. Your narrow-minded superiority made you a victim of ignorance. I really feel sorry for you.
If you feel upset about whatever China is doing in changing the world, my advice would be, "dig a hole in your basement, and live in there for the rest of your life. No internet, no TV, and no newspaper, as those will inevitably bring you the news you don't like."
Finally, following your logic of accusing 808140, I suspect you work for Intel, who's heavy-handed monopoly has got a blow from its former friend Dell. Let's accept it. times change. We Chinese have learned that, have you?
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
I don't listen to any of China's bullshit before they leave Tibet.
Does anybody remember tiananmen Square, when the army ran down a guy with a tank? They are complaining about the IEEE breaking the rules. They should write their congressman. Oh wait, they don't have any.
Mean what you say...say what you mean.
Wait everyone, this has to be a first. China has an ethical problem...
I'm surprised their government had time to put any work into this during their heavy schedule of human rights abuses.