Theres a difference between a whistle blower and Julian Assangen. Posting anything someone sends you, regardless of its true nature and without any consideration of those who it could litterally get killed is not a whistle blower.
He's a punk ass bitch who will post someone elses secrets, which he doesn't even obtain with any effort of his own, without any thought about what doing so means.
I'm all for protecting real whistle blowers. This douche bag deserves to be beaten into a pulp. He's just an attention whore with no limits.
There are people who know how to drive, that own and drive Corvettes. There are people who stay in the penthouse suite and never have a whore.
There has never been and never will be an intelligent 'tweet' or 'user of twitter'. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want, but I challenge you to prove me wrong. Show me 160 characters that can prove you're or someone is intelligent. I know 160 can show the stupidity and ignorance of a person, but you can't say the opposite.
I have to say that if you're idea of a useful tweet is that someone tells you what they had for breakfast... you are the one who needs more interesting friends.
You do realize around that same time they switched from IE to Firefox as their rendering engine. I don't think it was ever actually anything unique. Their proxies did mangle content however.
Caching DNS servers that hold longer than the zone SOA specifies are common and you should prepare for them anyway. Why are you moving servers without multihoming them for that month anyway? Thats not a new problem, its been that way for as long as I can remember.
So about the fraud and proxies servers... you're contradicting yourself. You're complaining that the proxies make it hard to track individuals, but then complaining that you had to add a whole bunch of address ranges to block... having dealt with AOL customers in the past I know the didn't have that many proxy servers... and they were pretty much all in a few easy to list blocks... of course you could have just got a list of all their address assignments via any one of the hundred or so websites that allow you to lookup assignments by various bits of information. Of course the fact that it was AOL/TimeWarner for a while means you would have had a LOT of address space to block considering they were probably the largest consumer of IPs in the US for a few years.
Yes, AOL was/is/will be shit, but you just sound like a shitty admin who thinks 'admining a unix machine' is using cpanel on some Linux VM.
Heres a hint, you don't want the jackass tallgating you to be reading your license plate or bumper sticker. You want him/her paying attention at the very least to your brake lights or the cars in front of you so he/she has a chance of stopping before they end up in your passenger seat holding a conversation with you.
Too bad the financial crisis is caused by the direct voting of individuals more so than the politicians, but hey, why blame the idiots who enacted a bunch of new spending bills and no new revenue bills to balance it out...
Seriously, California get itself into this mess on its own, directly, without any help from the politicians other than they let you start with direct voting, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
It's 2010, closed source does not belong on the net
You do realize if you took 'closed source' out of the Internet, right this instant, you'd not be able to communicate outside of your own home, let alone with the rest of the world.
When you start running OSS based CMTS or DSLAMS and OSS based core routers, THEN come talk about how it has no place on the net. OSS is not the end all be all of software on the planet and is generally eclipsed by closed source software in every arena on the planet except for a select few where inroads have been made.
You wouldn't like the Internet if there was no closed source software on it, as it wouldn't exist, and neither would most of the OSS stuff you love so much which exists because of the Internet and the code that powers it.
You didn't get 'several email injunctions from AOL employees'. A judge puts an injunction into place. AOL asked you to stop. It may have lead to an injunction at some point had you told them to piss off, but you complied, and thats where it ended.
The 'license issue' you quoted also basically says 'if your software license imposes restrictions that are anti-closed source software, then we don't want to play with you.' This is pretty much identical to the point of GPL but in the other direction. Same stupid constraint, you're just pointing it out like you license is different than there. Same rule, just used by the other side. Get used to it, they are just doing to you what you want to do to them, you have nothing to bitch about here.
The toolbar bundling issue is just another retarded constraint, but GPL (in my opinion) is full of retarded constraints that make it less than open by my definition. I wouldn't do it either if it were me, but thats what happens when you want to use someone elses stuff, you have to play nice with them.
Yes, I'm going to be marked as a troll, but really this is just as much a GPL being anti-closed source as it is AOL being anti-open source. Both sides are doing the same retarded thing, using a license the other one doesn't like and then blaming it on the other person.
Okay, pretend today was the first chance you had to use it, and your previous experiences don't exist.
I don't really see why you can't use it now if its so great. Its more along the lines of realizing how useless it really is rather than the lack of people who can use it being the issue.
If it was really useful, there would have been an actual demand for it.
I've spent years figuring out good ways to get out of meetings. This is just a method to drag me back in. Lets point out, Wave is nothing like WebEx, really, just because you can share a dynamic image doesn't make it like a desktop application viewing setup. IM and EMail are effectively one and the same if you don't have email servers that suck ass.
Contrary to popular belief, 'real time collaboration' using a PC is not as good as face to face collaboration, regardless of how many new ways someone comes up with to shoe horn all the traditional methods into a new medium where they simply aren't effective.
The comments here and facebook could also be made by pissing in snow, but using Wave or pissy snow for either would be a fucking retarded idea. There are already standard APIs for the things you listed, just no one uses them because once you make the data easy to get in and out, someone writes an automated method of raping it and ruining the medium with spam of one form or another. Hell, 'forums' or.. news groups as I like to call them are older than most slashdotters.
Only because they choose to do so. It is so unbelievable easy to survive in America that only the laziest of the laziest have problems. We unfortunately, due to how easy it is, have made some of the laziest people on the planet. There will always be people who want to do the least amount of work possible to survive and they won't survive long without someone taking care of them regardless of how much effort you put into it.
people losing their houses because they had the temerity to get ill
Due to over extending themselves and/or not bothering to put any effort into any of the hundred government programs that are out there to help people in this situation. Theres no excuse for this happening unless you bought a 120k house for 750k and you make 25k a year so you don't qualify for any sort of help, in which case, I feel absolutely no sympathy for you.
high infant mortality
Compared to what? Citation needed.
highest jail population in the world
Yes, and there are multiple reasons for this. One, we're a great target for criminals from the rest of the world, lots of idiotic lazy marks and lots of extra money and stuff that can disappear before anyone will bother putting REAL effort into finding it or who did the crime.
They still have to pay for healthcare
Everyone has to pay for health care moron, its just a matter of if its an optional payment or one the goverment takes from you without your consent, either way you still pay for it. Government provided health care doesn't just come from thin air you realize, right?
The rest of the western world knows balanced socialism is the way forward
Again, idiot. You think one form of government is better than another. They aren't. All forms are pretty much equal, regardless of what you want to think. The reality of it is, the government is run by people. People who can bend capitalism, socialism, communism, fascism or whatever into working for them how they want. If you have 'good' people in the government, they all work, including dictatorships. Reality is that you end up with bad people, cause bad people will take every advantage they can to get to the top, they don't play fair, which means its fairly easy to beat out the good guy who plays 'fair'.
My tax money (and yours) paid for it and the salaries of everyone who worked on it.
On that note however, I still think its just fine and dandy that they get the first shot at looking at the data they busted their asses to get, especially since the reality of it is, they probably know at least 100 times more about what they are looking at than anyone on/.
I'm fine standing at the back of the line since I only paid a few cents to the project (like everyone else) and I'm highly unlikely to discover anything anyway. Let them get the credit they deserve, but make no mistake, I already paid dues for accessing the data. Without me (my tax money), it wouldn't exist.
The reality is... our radiation is useless for others to detect us.
By the time any signal from our planet that we generate gets to any other known planet, its completely undetectable in the background noise, even if you KNOW the signal is there and exactly what you're looking for, you still couldn't find it.
Really? So when some idiot steals a bunch of your personal information, posts it on the web or sells it and claims it he was a journalist, and your bank accounts end up empty... you're okay with that?
Or when someone steals some internal memos detailing the troop movements that also happen to include your brothers sqad in Iraq... which promptly gets him killed... you're okay with that?
Censorship is a fact of life. Not everyone needs to know everything about everyone else. If you disagree, please post all your credit cards and any identification numbers you have.
In my experience those who scream loudest about how censorship is bad are those that are the most ignorant of the meaning of the word.
You wouldn't last very long in the world if you didn't censor yourself. You'd be unemployed, lonely, and have no support from anyone around you ever.
I'm so sick of idiotic morons such as yourself who think things like Wikileaks are good.
Journalists can not be trusted any more than politicians, they have an agenda as well. They don't care about what will happen when they 'spread the news' only that they get credit for doing so and just completely ignore all the consequences and side effects of the stupid shit they do.
This isn't about getting the information to the people, this is about letting journalists do whatever they want under the guise of providing useful information to the people.
Again I say, if you think this is a good idea, then start posting all your personal information and identity numbers/photos, please make sure to include your cell phone sim card info, credit/bank cards, home address, work schedule so I know when to rob you, passwords to your email accounts and any other security feature you may have.
Its easy as hell to get off most spam lists, been there, done that. You may have to wait an hour or two, big whoop. If your business dies because an hour or two of emails got rejected than you almost certainly ARE a spammer. Thats just a complete cop out.
People trust things like Spamhaus because they are far more useful than letting everything flow in.
Businesses you communicate with CAN allow you in regardless of your RBL status, if they want to.
My companies response is (and this includes responses too our customers) simply that we'll communicate with you again when you get off the list. We've told customers to go piss off when they don't come off the list. You know why?
BECAUSE THEY WERE SPAMMERS and I freaking hate spammers.
Its pretty easy in most cases to look at the rejection reason and confirm they are or aren't spammers in an instant, and if so we can just allow them in anyway.
Sites like Spamhaus are damaging because they get it right SO often that no one cares about the 3 times this year they'll get it wrong.
They are accountable. If they were wrong too often, admins wouldn't use them. They have a reputation to maintain and that reputation is why they get used.
Sorry you got caught up in the mess, next time, secure your mail servers, use SPF, and don't send spam, you'll quickly find that you'll never end up on a blacklist if you have half a clue. Hell, maybe even only a quarter of a clue.
truly ethical approach to take to protect the consumer;
So let me get this straight... what you're saying is... handing out guns to every random passer-by is a good way to teach gun safety and prevent murder by shooting?
That has to qualify as one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen.
This kind of behavior is childish at best, but in my opinion borders on criminal.
This bullshit 'oh their security sucks and they are slow' crap is just a battle cry of the ignorant.
Patches need to be thought out, tested and deployed safely.
I realize you probably don't understand what its like to manage a network of computers that actually has to work reliably rather than be running the latest bleeding edge, just released 20 minutes ago software.
If they 'fix the bug' and break mission critical apps for enough people its effectively worse than being exploited in many cases.
As the GP post stated, this is more like Google lashing out at MS, which again, is childish and indicates a company that I don't really want to do business with.
There really is no good reason for public disclosure before an exploit is fixed, saying your doing it to force their hand is just a different way of saying 'I want to attention for making them look bad'. It really doesn't impress anyone outside of slashdot and the like.
1) Requires a very high level of skill and believe it or not isn't just a bunch of cars going in circles. I can understand it being boring, but theres actually a fair amount to it, personally I prefer F1.
2) Have you ever played Golf? Play 18 holes in one day without a golf cart then come back and talk about 'activity', if you finish. I hate golf and used to think it was for utter pussies, the I tried it. I still don't like it, but go ahead, carry a full set of clubs for 18 holes in one day.
3) Its pretty much the same as every other spectator sport. I fail to see what makes it any different from American football, * racing, basketball, baseball, tennis or whatever, you're just watching someone else do something. They pretty much all suck to watch unless you can fast forward through the slow bits to get the 15 minutes out of the 3-6 hours that are worth watching.
Good for you for pretending to be witty and clever by insulting things you probably aren't even capable of doing half assed, but you fail, especially at trolling.
it's so much bigger than american football most Americans aren't aware.
Not in America. No one cares about soccer here for the most part... unless they recently came from somewhere else, so why should American broadcasting companies care about it? Are American's supposed to like soccer just because you say 'OMG ITS FUCKING FOOTBALL!'. Let me answer for you. No. It won't make them richer because they can sell more commericals for more money with other shows. Contrary to what you might think, you don't know more about making money than they do.
They can spend a lot of money and air time on something a few hundred thousand of their viewers will watch... or they can rerun NCIS and get several million viewers. You'd have to be an idiot not to understand that.
If the majority of the fans think they are entitled to act that way because its football than they are. You may not like it, but if you are a minority, tough shit for you.
This isn't a tradition, obviously, nor am I a soccer fan, but the last time any TV time with these horns it seemed like everyone had them, which means, frankly, you lose.
Slashdot Mirror
Theres a difference between a whistle blower and Julian Assangen. Posting anything someone sends you, regardless of its true nature and without any consideration of those who it could litterally get killed is not a whistle blower.
He's a punk ass bitch who will post someone elses secrets, which he doesn't even obtain with any effort of his own, without any thought about what doing so means.
I'm all for protecting real whistle blowers. This douche bag deserves to be beaten into a pulp. He's just an attention whore with no limits.
I think that comment will be my sig from now on.
No.
There are people who know how to drive, that own and drive Corvettes.
There are people who stay in the penthouse suite and never have a whore.
There has never been and never will be an intelligent 'tweet' or 'user of twitter'. You can tell me I'm wrong all you want, but I challenge you to prove me wrong. Show me 160 characters that can prove you're or someone is intelligent. I know 160 can show the stupidity and ignorance of a person, but you can't say the opposite.
I have to say that if you're idea of a useful tweet is that someone tells you what they had for breakfast ... you are the one who needs more interesting friends.
You do realize around that same time they switched from IE to Firefox as their rendering engine. I don't think it was ever actually anything unique. Their proxies did mangle content however.
Caching DNS servers that hold longer than the zone SOA specifies are common and you should prepare for them anyway. Why are you moving servers without multihoming them for that month anyway? Thats not a new problem, its been that way for as long as I can remember.
So about the fraud and proxies servers ... you're contradicting yourself. You're complaining that the proxies make it hard to track individuals, but then complaining that you had to add a whole bunch of address ranges to block ... having dealt with AOL customers in the past I know the didn't have that many proxy servers ... and they were pretty much all in a few easy to list blocks ... of course you could have just got a list of all their address assignments via any one of the hundred or so websites that allow you to lookup assignments by various bits of information. Of course the fact that it was AOL/TimeWarner for a while means you would have had a LOT of address space to block considering they were probably the largest consumer of IPs in the US for a few years.
Yes, AOL was/is/will be shit, but you just sound like a shitty admin who thinks 'admining a unix machine' is using cpanel on some Linux VM.
Heres a hint, you don't want the jackass tallgating you to be reading your license plate or bumper sticker. You want him/her paying attention at the very least to your brake lights or the cars in front of you so he/she has a chance of stopping before they end up in your passenger seat holding a conversation with you.
Too bad the financial crisis is caused by the direct voting of individuals more so than the politicians, but hey, why blame the idiots who enacted a bunch of new spending bills and no new revenue bills to balance it out ...
Seriously, California get itself into this mess on its own, directly, without any help from the politicians other than they let you start with direct voting, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
You do realize if you took 'closed source' out of the Internet, right this instant, you'd not be able to communicate outside of your own home, let alone with the rest of the world.
When you start running OSS based CMTS or DSLAMS and OSS based core routers, THEN come talk about how it has no place on the net. OSS is not the end all be all of software on the planet and is generally eclipsed by closed source software in every arena on the planet except for a select few where inroads have been made.
You wouldn't like the Internet if there was no closed source software on it, as it wouldn't exist, and neither would most of the OSS stuff you love so much which exists because of the Internet and the code that powers it.
You didn't get 'several email injunctions from AOL employees'. A judge puts an injunction into place. AOL asked you to stop. It may have lead to an injunction at some point had you told them to piss off, but you complied, and thats where it ended.
The 'license issue' you quoted also basically says 'if your software license imposes restrictions that are anti-closed source software, then we don't want to play with you.' This is pretty much identical to the point of GPL but in the other direction. Same stupid constraint, you're just pointing it out like you license is different than there. Same rule, just used by the other side. Get used to it, they are just doing to you what you want to do to them, you have nothing to bitch about here.
The toolbar bundling issue is just another retarded constraint, but GPL (in my opinion) is full of retarded constraints that make it less than open by my definition. I wouldn't do it either if it were me, but thats what happens when you want to use someone elses stuff, you have to play nice with them.
Yes, I'm going to be marked as a troll, but really this is just as much a GPL being anti-closed source as it is AOL being anti-open source. Both sides are doing the same retarded thing, using a license the other one doesn't like and then blaming it on the other person.
Okay, pretend today was the first chance you had to use it, and your previous experiences don't exist.
I don't really see why you can't use it now if its so great. Its more along the lines of realizing how useless it really is rather than the lack of people who can use it being the issue.
If it was really useful, there would have been an actual demand for it.
I've spent years figuring out good ways to get out of meetings. This is just a method to drag me back in. Lets point out, Wave is nothing like WebEx, really, just because you can share a dynamic image doesn't make it like a desktop application viewing setup. IM and EMail are effectively one and the same if you don't have email servers that suck ass.
Contrary to popular belief, 'real time collaboration' using a PC is not as good as face to face collaboration, regardless of how many new ways someone comes up with to shoe horn all the traditional methods into a new medium where they simply aren't effective.
The comments here and facebook could also be made by pissing in snow, but using Wave or pissy snow for either would be a fucking retarded idea. There are already standard APIs for the things you listed, just no one uses them because once you make the data easy to get in and out, someone writes an automated method of raping it and ruining the medium with spam of one form or another. Hell, 'forums' or .. news groups as I like to call them are older than most slashdotters.
Idiot.
Only because they choose to do so. It is so unbelievable easy to survive in America that only the laziest of the laziest have problems. We unfortunately, due to how easy it is, have made some of the laziest people on the planet. There will always be people who want to do the least amount of work possible to survive and they won't survive long without someone taking care of them regardless of how much effort you put into it.
Due to over extending themselves and/or not bothering to put any effort into any of the hundred government programs that are out there to help people in this situation. Theres no excuse for this happening unless you bought a 120k house for 750k and you make 25k a year so you don't qualify for any sort of help, in which case, I feel absolutely no sympathy for you.
Compared to what? Citation needed.
Yes, and there are multiple reasons for this. One, we're a great target for criminals from the rest of the world, lots of idiotic lazy marks and lots of extra money and stuff that can disappear before anyone will bother putting REAL effort into finding it or who did the crime.
Everyone has to pay for health care moron, its just a matter of if its an optional payment or one the goverment takes from you without your consent, either way you still pay for it. Government provided health care doesn't just come from thin air you realize, right?
Again, idiot. You think one form of government is better than another. They aren't. All forms are pretty much equal, regardless of what you want to think. The reality of it is, the government is run by people. People who can bend capitalism, socialism, communism, fascism or whatever into working for them how they want. If you have 'good' people in the government, they all work, including dictatorships. Reality is that you end up with bad people, cause bad people will take every advantage they can to get to the top, they don't play fair, which means its fairly easy to beat out the good guy who plays 'fair'.
Lets get one thing straight.
IT IS MY SATELLITE.
My tax money (and yours) paid for it and the salaries of everyone who worked on it.
On that note however, I still think its just fine and dandy that they get the first shot at looking at the data they busted their asses to get, especially since the reality of it is, they probably know at least 100 times more about what they are looking at than anyone on /.
I'm fine standing at the back of the line since I only paid a few cents to the project (like everyone else) and I'm highly unlikely to discover anything anyway. Let them get the credit they deserve, but make no mistake, I already paid dues for accessing the data. Without me (my tax money), it wouldn't exist.
The reality is ... our radiation is useless for others to detect us.
By the time any signal from our planet that we generate gets to any other known planet, its completely undetectable in the background noise, even if you KNOW the signal is there and exactly what you're looking for, you still couldn't find it.
Really? So when some idiot steals a bunch of your personal information, posts it on the web or sells it and claims it he was a journalist, and your bank accounts end up empty ... you're okay with that?
Or when someone steals some internal memos detailing the troop movements that also happen to include your brothers sqad in Iraq ... which promptly gets him killed ... you're okay with that?
Censorship is a fact of life. Not everyone needs to know everything about everyone else. If you disagree, please post all your credit cards and any identification numbers you have.
In my experience those who scream loudest about how censorship is bad are those that are the most ignorant of the meaning of the word.
You wouldn't last very long in the world if you didn't censor yourself. You'd be unemployed, lonely, and have no support from anyone around you ever.
I'm so sick of idiotic morons such as yourself who think things like Wikileaks are good.
Journalists can not be trusted any more than politicians, they have an agenda as well. They don't care about what will happen when they 'spread the news' only that they get credit for doing so and just completely ignore all the consequences and side effects of the stupid shit they do.
This isn't about getting the information to the people, this is about letting journalists do whatever they want under the guise of providing useful information to the people.
Again I say, if you think this is a good idea, then start posting all your personal information and identity numbers/photos, please make sure to include your cell phone sim card info, credit/bank cards, home address, work schedule so I know when to rob you, passwords to your email accounts and any other security feature you may have.
Idiot.
Its easy as hell to get off most spam lists, been there, done that. You may have to wait an hour or two, big whoop. If your business dies because an hour or two of emails got rejected than you almost certainly ARE a spammer. Thats just a complete cop out.
People trust things like Spamhaus because they are far more useful than letting everything flow in.
Businesses you communicate with CAN allow you in regardless of your RBL status, if they want to.
My companies response is (and this includes responses too our customers) simply that we'll communicate with you again when you get off the list. We've told customers to go piss off when they don't come off the list. You know why?
BECAUSE THEY WERE SPAMMERS and I freaking hate spammers.
Its pretty easy in most cases to look at the rejection reason and confirm they are or aren't spammers in an instant, and if so we can just allow them in anyway.
Sites like Spamhaus are damaging because they get it right SO often that no one cares about the 3 times this year they'll get it wrong.
They are accountable. If they were wrong too often, admins wouldn't use them. They have a reputation to maintain and that reputation is why they get used.
Sorry you got caught up in the mess, next time, secure your mail servers, use SPF, and don't send spam, you'll quickly find that you'll never end up on a blacklist if you have half a clue. Hell, maybe even only a quarter of a clue.
Yea, cause the anarchy of the 'open' world works so bloody well, hence the last 10 years of 'The year of the Linux desktop'
So let me get this straight ... what you're saying is ... handing out guns to every random passer-by is a good way to teach gun safety and prevent murder by shooting?
That has to qualify as one of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen.
Until it makes her PC unbootable.
I'm guessing you've never actually managed a network or serious of machines that needs to be reliable.
Sure, a unbootable/crashing machine may be secure, but its worthless.
Oh, that makes it okay then!
This kind of behavior is childish at best, but in my opinion borders on criminal.
This bullshit 'oh their security sucks and they are slow' crap is just a battle cry of the ignorant.
Patches need to be thought out, tested and deployed safely.
I realize you probably don't understand what its like to manage a network of computers that actually has to work reliably rather than be running the latest bleeding edge, just released 20 minutes ago software.
If they 'fix the bug' and break mission critical apps for enough people its effectively worse than being exploited in many cases.
As the GP post stated, this is more like Google lashing out at MS, which again, is childish and indicates a company that I don't really want to do business with.
There really is no good reason for public disclosure before an exploit is fixed, saying your doing it to force their hand is just a different way of saying 'I want to attention for making them look bad'. It really doesn't impress anyone outside of slashdot and the like.
1) Requires a very high level of skill and believe it or not isn't just a bunch of cars going in circles. I can understand it being boring, but theres actually a fair amount to it, personally I prefer F1.
2) Have you ever played Golf? Play 18 holes in one day without a golf cart then come back and talk about 'activity', if you finish. I hate golf and used to think it was for utter pussies, the I tried it. I still don't like it, but go ahead, carry a full set of clubs for 18 holes in one day.
3) Its pretty much the same as every other spectator sport. I fail to see what makes it any different from American football, * racing, basketball, baseball, tennis or whatever, you're just watching someone else do something. They pretty much all suck to watch unless you can fast forward through the slow bits to get the 15 minutes out of the 3-6 hours that are worth watching.
Good for you for pretending to be witty and clever by insulting things you probably aren't even capable of doing half assed, but you fail, especially at trolling.
Let me get this straight ... the game is more about hearing than ball handling?
Seriously?
Have you been watching at all? The game may play different, but its still going to come down to skill since they are all playing on the same field.
Not in America. No one cares about soccer here for the most part ... unless they recently came from somewhere else, so why should American broadcasting companies care about it? Are American's supposed to like soccer just because you say 'OMG ITS FUCKING FOOTBALL!'. Let me answer for you. No. It won't make them richer because they can sell more commericals for more money with other shows. Contrary to what you might think, you don't know more about making money than they do.
They can spend a lot of money and air time on something a few hundred thousand of their viewers will watch ... or they can rerun NCIS and get several million viewers. You'd have to be an idiot not to understand that.
If the majority of the fans think they are entitled to act that way because its football than they are. You may not like it, but if you are a minority, tough shit for you.
This isn't a tradition, obviously, nor am I a soccer fan, but the last time any TV time with these horns it seemed like everyone had them, which means, frankly, you lose.