Although she may have left Microsoft, she'll live on in her music, what with great hits like `Let the River Run' `You Belong To Me' and `You're So Vain'. I think this will really be her legacy - in fact, I wasn't even aware of her coding skills.
Why are you slamming ATI for releasing binary-only drivers
I'm not. Read what I wrote. I'm slamming ATI for not releasing any drivers for their current generation cards, releasing poor quality binary only drivers for their older cards, and expecting the community to write drivers for the rest.
Every NVIDIA card since the GeForce2 Ultra has had Linux drivers before they even hit the shelves. This is because Nvidia pay people to write and maintain the drivers. They might not have specs, but at least NVidia support your choice of operating system.
ATI release some specs, and that's all. They don't either bother writing drivers for their cards and they just hope someone else will - *maybe the weather channel, maybe soon, maybe later, maybe not for your specific card) or release binary-only drivers (great, at least they exist) that don't have anything like the performance of their Windows drivers. The UT2003 benchmark, if ran under Linux, won't even start on a Radeon 8500 (which ATI do have fast, binary only drivers for because its missing correct support for S3 texture compression. Which isn't exactly a new technology by any means.
So I can get Open Source 2D support for a Radeon 9700? Great. I'm sure 2D support is why people buy a Radeon 9700.
Currently Joe installs Linux and either stays with it because he likes it better or drops it because doesn't run.
How will that change?
I thought that would be obvious. One of the reasons he might not like it is because his apps never look quite the same - QT, GTK2, GTK1, XMMS and Mozilla on every Linux desktop but Red Hat Nulls don't look consistent. This is annoying and unnecessary.
I, for one, like the different options we have in terms of desktop environments. I don't want either KDE or GNOME to go away.
People are continually misunderstanding this point. You can change the default look and feel and behaviour if you want t, but Red Hat have made the two desktops consistent. Which is a good thing, as users choose their desktop apps based on usefullness, rather than toolkit.
There's other package management front ends available, some people would consider better than apt. But yes, if you want apt on your Red Hat box, just visit www.freshrpms.net. It works the same as any rpmlib frontend.
Can one, now, do the equivalent of "apt-get install task-kde3" and have it not die with a billion and one "cannot install: libxxx required but not found" errors?
Yes, one has been able to do so for 2 years now. up2date -u kdebase.
If so, then rpm has finally matured to the point where apt was a few years ago.
That statement makes absolutely no sense - its like comparing Linux to Microsoft Word. Apt is nott a package manager, never was, and never will be. Its just a front end that indexes dependencies.
The only problem I have with rpm is that (at least the last time I used it) it was stupid about dependencies. Has that changed?
Yes, it has, a while ago. But like most people who knock RPM, I'm sure that doesn't matter, and you'll continue to form your opinions based on that fact that You Like Debian And Can't Be Bothered Hearing About Anything Else or Bothering To Understand Why Standards Are Good.
I was thinking about this earlier today and realized I'd be happier to have to pay Apple for a native Linux Quicktime player than pay to own Crossover Plugin (as I do now).
It boggles the mind that people would rather use their own wierd solution than build on apt.
The apt frontend which supports LSB packages (rpm, as opposed to dpkg) works well, but can be confusing. Many new users becomes confused about the difference between update and upgrade, and sometimes forget the need to run update at all. Additionally, apt lends itself to resolving dependencies fro mmultipel sources - its not possible to say `update my entire os, but only from the a single source' unless you want to keep reediting your sources.list whenever you'd like to do so. This makes support a bit of a problem, as apt is inclined towards treating third party packages the same as distribution packages.
I'm not sayign apt is bad (every freshrpms fan knows its quite good), it just isn't perfect, and there's more to package management front ends than apt. Checkout redhat-config-packages from the current Null beta - its much more polished, but not quite as flexible as up2date or apt. But for the average desktop user, it just might be good enough to take away the pain of installing software on Linux.
ok, so no distribution before the LSB was created was a linux distribution?
No. They were a Linux distribution. They may as well not be now.
As a happy Debian user i'm grateful to be using a *Linux Distribution* that avoids the hell that is rpm...
Debian qualified for the LSB because they got the committee to agree that alien is an acceptable method of installing RPMs. Once I see a Linux users running Debian installing glibc from an RPM, I'll believe them:).
People who use linux are too cheap to buy an operating system, they aren't going to pay for software.
Bullshit. You're clearly begging the question. Most Linux users I know spend a lot of money on their computers, software, books, and other things. Most people I know who use Linux do so because its the best tool for the job.
But how many people bought quake 3 for linux?
29,000, IIRC. Do some research. At a time when NVidia didn't have any Linux drivers, that's a good number.
Linux users are a unique market in that they are a group of people who disliked the mainstream product, and rather than buy a different one, they made their own, and they share it with the world at no cost.
I didn't make my own. I just used whatever was best for the job. In my case, that happened to be Linux.
No matter what you try to sell them, someone isn't going to like it and will make their own and share it.
That might be true, but will their own be any good? If not, I'll gladly pay for something better if its worth it.
In the last year, I've spent the following on Linux related products. In each case their were no cost alternatives, but I picked the best tool for the job.
Red Hat Certified Engineer Training
Codeweavers Crossover Plugin
Codeweavers Crossover Office
Wolfenstein 3D
WineX
Jedi Knight II to play under Winex.
Quake 3 Team Arena
vast quantities of books and Linux publications
As soon as UT2003 retail comes out, a copy of that too.
I might also buy Opera 7. Again, if its better.
I would much rather pay Apple for the pleasure of running Quicktime under Linux than pay Codeweavers for the ability to run a non-native version
Every Linux user should be using the packaging system to install this - otherwise, as the author above said, you'll have application with nonstandard install, no file querying or verification, nonstandard uninstalls, and further breakage of your system for apps which subsequently rely on openssl and apache.
And if your Linux distribution can't reliably install RPMs, than its not a Linux distribution but an OS which uses the Linux kernel. There is a difference, and its called the LSB.
It wasn't and I'd wager that De Niro et. al don't really want a film about science or even about scientists. What they want is another standard Hollywood film (...) that has the gimmick of having a scientist in it.
Vipul's Razor: or maybe De Niro just wants to be involved in a film that makes audiences think.
The Linux Users of Victoria currently have our venue donated by IBM. IBM have a Linux marketing manager (Katie Axam, we love you) who fielded our request for a venue.
The venue is amazing - its in the corporate headquarters of Telstra, out countries telecommunications monopoly. Its around three stories tall, and has a projection screen that's around two stories, radio mikes, and even video recording facilities - its amazing to speak at, If you know what you're going to talk about, you can simply walk around the stage talking to the audience and pointing at things on your presentation using your hands or a laser pointer if you want, because you're not tethered to your laptop - its simply feels a lot more natural. IBM even provide light refreshments before the meeting.
As a result, they've made 1300 Linux users, many of whom are professional network / systems administrators and coders, quite partial to IBM.
Previously, Melbourne University and Sun Micrososystems have provided venues.
Microsoft has had Windows Media on Linux for a few years now - I forget the name of the company, but another company had a real, MS written Windows Media *server* for embedded Linux a couple of years ago.
And MPlayer (and I think Xine) has played WMA for around a year now.
and finally (especially for us Brits) helped fund the IRA - who have been systimatically blowing up and killing people in both the UK and Ireland for well over 20 years.
I don't think many people agree with the IRAs methods. But its worth pointing out the IRA wouldn't have existed had Britain not invaded the country, starved its inhabitants to death, burned down people's homes, stopped people from speaking their native language, violently discriminated against those who didn't adopt a foreign religion, and started transplanting people from other countries into areas cleared of natives in an attempt to Anglicise the country.
Killing innocents is wrong. Both sides of that war are guilty, and could be classified as terrorists.
$ host -t mx lextext.com lextext.com mail is handled by 50 naam.pair.com. $ nc naam.pair.com 25 220 naam.pair.com ESMTP helo test 250 naam.pair.com mail from: 250 ok rcpt to: 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) quit 221 naam.pair.com
UT fans: Operation Na Pali has Mario and Legoland
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The bonus level on the rather nifty UT mod, Operation Na Pali (which works under Linux), has Mario and Lego World sections. And the rest of the mod isn't bad either.
Likewise, can I watch these under Linux? Xiner and MPlayer can use the codecs, I think, but I'm sure CinemaNow adds all sorts of other stuff into the mix.
I have broadband, I'd like to buy movies, but I'm not going to pay for or put up with another format I can't play ruling the day.
Why would Bruce Perens be the person to talk to companies about adopting Linux? Is he a CIO? An experienced sys admin? A network admin? A security specialist? Does he have an in depth familiarity of proprietary Operating Systems that's required to accurately compare them to Open Source competitors?
Exactly who is Perens? A former maintainer for one of the smaller Linux distributions, ex Pixar employee and founder of the OSI? That's great, but I simply doubt Perens has the experience necessary to be a good advocate - good advocates have a well rounded view of the world and experience in both what they're advocating for and against. I don't think Bruce Perens would make a good advocate, because he has bugger-all idea of what he's advocating against, and very little experience in the kinds of environments where Linux is most successful - the kind of conservative businesses looking at Linux as replacements to their reliable Unix systems, and the Windows `shops' that are looking to add Linux systems to their networks as web, file and print, and firewall/PAT servers.
Somehow I doubt Perens was ever qualified in his job as an evangelist to HPs target market. As such, I don't think its a bad thing they let him go.
Go on, mark me as a troll, and scream at me for being a Windows apologist. As I type this on my RH Null system and prepare to go to work for a company as a primarily Linux based systems administrator, I'll know its bullshit. I'll also know/. has a lot of growing up to do.
Sweet. UT was always the gameplay king over Q3 - a wider variety of weapons (and weapon secrets, with various right/left combos) excellent level design (remember that monastery on top of an insanely steep mountain, or the assault level on the train?), good taunting `die, bitch' and lots of bonus goodies (Epic released 4 major bonus packs for Unreal Tournamenent). I'll definitely play UT 2003 because all my useful applications are in Linux and frankly I can't be bothered running 2 OSs and rebooting to play the Windows version.
If you're into UT, and you purchased the original Linux UT, then you should definitely check out Return to Na Pali, a single player sequel to the original Unreal that plays using the UT Engine. There's also a patch to allow you to play the original Unreal under UT too. Google is your friend.
This is where I'm glad the company I buy my video hardware from actually pays people to develop drivers for their current hardware that give the same or better performance than Win32 - sorry, as a technical person, performance and OS support matters more to me than a sense of ethics I don't share.
You hook your "flux capacitor" up to the firewire port and nothing happens. Why, because either a firewire or a flux capacitor driver (or both) is required and the kernel doesn't have it installed. This means that you must rebuild the kernel with the appropriate driver in order for your new flux capacitor to work.
No it does not. It means, in this case, you must rebuild a module. Rebuilding an entire kernel for this purcpose is a waste of time and energy.
But realistically, you'd already have the module available - to follow your own example, user A might not use NTFS support, but having the driver available as a module doesn't harm his own system - the kernel isn't bigger because of it. It also allows user B to mount his Windows disk easily with only a slight overhead from loading the driver as a module rather than having it compile into the kernel. The solution is more modularity.
i*ro*ny Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i*ro*nies The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.
Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain). An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
Well, one of the most acceptable definitions of an ironic situation was one that seemed to imply otherwise. Hence, `rain on a wedding day' isn't ironic - its just bad luck. But visiting a site talking about the latest useless kernel addon and how it will rule the world, with a link proclaiming it to be a `404' of some kind (seeming to imply it won't rule the world) could indeed be ironic.
I blame Alanis for this total misuse of the word...
Me too, but I blame radio DJs who can't think of any better material for making this `its not actually ironic' discussion a popular one, especially when someone uses the word correctly
Because the link is damned impossible to find...
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Although she may have left Microsoft, she'll live on in her music, what with great hits like `Let the River Run' `You Belong To Me' and `You're So Vain'. I think this will really be her legacy - in fact, I wasn't even aware of her coding skills.
Oh wait, Charles Simonyi? Er, nevermind...
Why are you slamming ATI for releasing binary-only drivers
I'm not. Read what I wrote. I'm slamming ATI for not releasing any drivers for their current generation cards, releasing poor quality binary only drivers for their older cards, and expecting the community to write drivers for the rest.
Every NVIDIA card since the GeForce2 Ultra has had Linux drivers before they even hit the shelves. This is because Nvidia pay people to write and maintain the drivers. They might not have specs, but at least NVidia support your choice of operating system.
ATI release some specs, and that's all. They don't either bother writing drivers for their cards and they just hope someone else will - *maybe the weather channel, maybe soon, maybe later, maybe not for your specific card) or release binary-only drivers (great, at least they exist) that don't have anything like the performance of their Windows drivers. The UT2003 benchmark, if ran under Linux, won't even start on a Radeon 8500 (which ATI do have fast, binary only drivers for because its missing correct support for S3 texture compression. Which isn't exactly a new technology by any means.
So I can get Open Source 2D support for a Radeon 9700? Great. I'm sure 2D support is why people buy a Radeon 9700.
Vote with your dollars.
Currently Joe installs Linux and either stays with it because he likes it better or drops it because doesn't run.
How will that change?
I thought that would be obvious. One of the reasons he might not like it is because his apps never look quite the same - QT, GTK2, GTK1, XMMS and Mozilla on every Linux desktop but Red Hat Nulls don't look consistent. This is annoying and unnecessary.
I, for one, like the different options we have in terms of desktop environments. I don't want either KDE or GNOME to go away.
People are continually misunderstanding this point. You can change the default look and feel and behaviour if you want t, but Red Hat have made the two desktops consistent. Which is a good thing, as users choose their desktop apps based on usefullness, rather than toolkit.
Once I see widespread support for apt on rpm
There's other package management front ends available, some people would consider better than apt. But yes, if you want apt on your Red Hat box, just visit www.freshrpms.net. It works the same as any rpmlib frontend.
Can one, now, do the equivalent of "apt-get install task-kde3" and have it not die with a billion and one "cannot install: libxxx required but not found" errors?
Yes, one has been able to do so for 2 years now. up2date -u kdebase.
If so, then rpm has finally matured to the point where apt was a few years ago.
That statement makes absolutely no sense - its like comparing Linux to Microsoft Word. Apt is nott a package manager, never was, and never will be. Its just a front end that indexes dependencies.
The only problem I have with rpm is that (at least the last time I used it) it was stupid about dependencies. Has that changed?
Yes, it has, a while ago. But like most people who knock RPM, I'm sure that doesn't matter, and you'll continue to form your opinions based on that fact that You Like Debian And Can't Be Bothered Hearing About Anything Else or Bothering To Understand Why Standards Are Good.
I was thinking about this earlier today and realized I'd be happier to have to pay Apple for a native Linux Quicktime player than pay to own Crossover Plugin (as I do now).
It boggles the mind that people would rather use their own wierd solution than build on apt.
The apt frontend which supports LSB packages (rpm, as opposed to dpkg) works well, but can be confusing. Many new users becomes confused about the difference between update and upgrade, and sometimes forget the need to run update at all.
Additionally, apt lends itself to resolving dependencies fro mmultipel sources - its not possible to say `update my entire os, but only from the a single source' unless you want to keep reediting your sources.list whenever you'd like to do so. This makes support a bit of a problem, as apt is inclined towards treating third party packages the same as distribution packages.
I'm not sayign apt is bad (every freshrpms fan knows its quite good), it just isn't perfect, and there's more to package management front ends than apt. Checkout redhat-config-packages from the current Null beta - its much more polished, but not quite as flexible as up2date or apt. But for the average desktop user, it just might be good enough to take away the pain of installing software on Linux.
ok, so no distribution before the LSB was created was a linux distribution?
:).
No. They were a Linux distribution. They may as well not be now.
As a happy Debian user i'm grateful to be using a *Linux Distribution* that avoids the hell that is rpm...
Debian qualified for the LSB because they got the committee to agree that alien is an acceptable method of installing RPMs. Once I see a Linux users running Debian installing glibc from an RPM, I'll believe them
Bullshit. You're clearly begging the question. Most Linux users I know spend a lot of money on their computers, software, books, and other things. Most people I know who use Linux do so because its the best tool for the job.
But how many people bought quake 3 for linux?
29,000, IIRC. Do some research. At a time when NVidia didn't have any Linux drivers, that's a good number.
Linux users are a unique market in that they are a group of people who disliked the mainstream product, and rather than buy a different one, they made their own, and they share it with the world at no cost.
I didn't make my own. I just used whatever was best for the job. In my case, that happened to be Linux.
No matter what you try to sell them, someone isn't going to like it and will make their own and share it.
That might be true, but will their own be any good? If not, I'll gladly pay for something better if its worth it.
In the last year, I've spent the following on Linux related products. In each case their were no cost alternatives, but I picked the best tool for the job.
I would much rather pay Apple for the pleasure of running Quicktime under Linux than pay Codeweavers for the ability to run a non-native version
Every Linux user should be using the packaging system to install this - otherwise, as the author above said, you'll have application with nonstandard install, no file querying or verification, nonstandard uninstalls, and further breakage of your system for apps which subsequently rely on openssl and apache.
And if your Linux distribution can't reliably install RPMs, than its not a Linux distribution but an OS which uses the Linux kernel. There is a difference, and its called the LSB.
It wasn't and I'd wager that De Niro et. al don't really want a film about science or even about scientists. What they want is another standard Hollywood film (...) that has the gimmick of having a scientist in it.
Vipul's Razor: or maybe De Niro just wants to be involved in a film that makes audiences think.
The Linux Users of Victoria currently have our venue donated by IBM. IBM have a Linux marketing manager (Katie Axam, we love you) who fielded our request for a venue.
The venue is amazing - its in the corporate headquarters of Telstra, out countries telecommunications monopoly. Its around three stories tall, and has a projection screen that's around two stories, radio mikes, and even video recording facilities - its amazing to speak at, If you know what you're going to talk about, you can simply walk around the stage talking to the audience and pointing at things on your presentation using your hands or a laser pointer if you want, because you're not tethered to your laptop - its simply feels a lot more natural. IBM even provide light refreshments before the meeting.
As a result, they've made 1300 Linux users, many of whom are professional network / systems administrators and coders, quite partial to IBM.
Previously, Melbourne University and Sun Micrososystems have provided venues.
Microsoft has had Windows Media on Linux for a few years now - I forget the name of the company, but another company had a real, MS written Windows Media *server* for embedded Linux a couple of years ago.
And MPlayer (and I think Xine) has played WMA for around a year now.
and finally (especially for us Brits) helped fund the IRA - who have been systimatically blowing up and killing people in both the UK and Ireland for well over 20 years.
I don't think many people agree with the IRAs methods. But its worth pointing out the IRA wouldn't have existed had Britain not invaded the country, starved its inhabitants to death, burned down people's homes, stopped people from speaking their native language, violently discriminated against those who didn't adopt a foreign religion, and started transplanting people from other countries into areas cleared of natives in an attempt to Anglicise the country.
Killing innocents is wrong. Both sides of that war are guilty, and could be classified as terrorists.
the U.S. has done nothing but defend itself and come to the aid of friends and enemies alike.
Chile. 1973. Now shut up.
The bonus level on the rather nifty UT mod, Operation Na Pali (which works under Linux), has Mario and Lego World sections. And the rest of the mod isn't bad either.
Likewise, can I watch these under Linux? Xiner and MPlayer can use the codecs, I think, but I'm sure CinemaNow adds all sorts of other stuff into the mix.
I have broadband, I'd like to buy movies, but I'm not going to pay for or put up with another format I can't play ruling the day.
I wasn't talking about moderators, I was talking about the replies. Presuming I was doing otherwise shows a lack of logic. Thanks.
Why would Bruce Perens be the person to talk to companies about adopting Linux? Is he a CIO? An experienced sys admin? A network admin? A security specialist? Does he have an in depth familiarity of proprietary Operating Systems that's required to accurately compare them to Open Source competitors?
/. has a lot of growing up to do.
Exactly who is Perens? A former maintainer for one of the smaller Linux distributions, ex Pixar employee and founder of the OSI? That's great, but I simply doubt Perens has the experience necessary to be a good advocate - good advocates have a well rounded view of the world and experience in both what they're advocating for and against. I don't think Bruce Perens would make a good advocate, because he has bugger-all idea of what he's advocating against, and very little experience in the kinds of environments where Linux is most successful - the kind of conservative businesses looking at Linux as replacements to their reliable Unix systems, and the Windows `shops' that are looking to add Linux systems to their networks as web, file and print, and firewall/PAT servers.
Somehow I doubt Perens was ever qualified in his job as an evangelist to HPs target market. As such, I don't think its a bad thing they let him go.
Go on, mark me as a troll, and scream at me for being a Windows apologist. As I type this on my RH Null system and prepare to go to work for a company as a primarily Linux based systems administrator, I'll know its bullshit. I'll also know
Sweet. UT was always the gameplay king over Q3 - a wider variety of weapons (and weapon secrets, with various right/left combos) excellent level design (remember that monastery on top of an insanely steep mountain, or the assault level on the train?), good taunting `die, bitch' and lots of bonus goodies (Epic released 4 major bonus packs for Unreal Tournamenent). I'll definitely play UT 2003 because all my useful applications are in Linux and frankly I can't be bothered running 2 OSs and rebooting to play the Windows version.
If you're into UT, and you purchased the original Linux UT, then you should definitely check out Return to Na Pali, a single player sequel to the original Unreal that plays using the UT Engine. There's also a patch to allow you to play the original Unreal under UT too. Google is your friend.
This is where I'm glad the company I buy my video hardware from actually pays people to develop drivers for their current hardware that give the same or better performance than Win32 - sorry, as a technical person, performance and OS support matters more to me than a sense of ethics I don't share.
Yes, I'm talking about NVIDIA.
You hook your "flux capacitor" up to the firewire port and nothing happens. Why, because either a firewire or a flux capacitor driver (or both) is required and the kernel doesn't have it installed. This means that you must rebuild the kernel with the appropriate driver in order for your new flux capacitor to work.
No it does not. It means, in this case, you must rebuild a module. Rebuilding an entire kernel for this purcpose is a waste of time and energy.
But realistically, you'd already have the module available - to follow your own example, user A might not use NTFS support, but having the driver available as a module doesn't harm his own system - the kernel isn't bigger because of it. It also allows user B to mount his Windows disk easily with only a slight overhead from loading the driver as a module rather than having it compile into the kernel. The solution is more modularity.
This is how its ironic...
The American Heritage Dictionary:
i*ro*ny Pronunciation Key (r-n, r-)
n. pl. i*ro*nies
The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.
Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain).
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.
Well, one of the most acceptable definitions of an ironic situation was one that seemed to imply otherwise. Hence, `rain on a wedding day' isn't ironic - its just bad luck. But visiting a site talking about the latest useless kernel addon and how it will rule the world, with a link proclaiming it to be a `404' of some kind (seeming to imply it won't rule the world) could indeed be ironic.
I blame Alanis for this total misuse of the word...
Me too, but I blame radio DJs who can't think of any better material for making this `its not actually ironic' discussion a popular one, especially when someone uses the word correctly
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