Slashdot Mirror
One Year After September 11
One year ago today, at 9:12 eastern, we posted
World Trade Towers and Pentagon Attacked amidst the events of that day. Since Slashdot is really just a discussion site, I felt the most appropriate way to handle this anniversary is to simply do just that. I hadn't read those stories since the day it happened, and I really am at a loss for words. But I'm sure many of you won't be. And thanks to OSDN for turning banner ads off for the day.
Umm... have you read the comments about OSDN turning off banner adds, there's very little thanks to be had, the first posts neer the bottom of the page make for the best read.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
OSDN turned off the banners? I haven't seen a banner ad since I installed junkbuster.
SealBeater
-- Its survival of the fittest...and we got the fucking guns!!!
As America Remembers 9/11/2001, we must remember that we live in a country based on freedom. Those freedoms are being threatened right now because of America's reaction to 9/11, and we have to be careful about that.
:-)
So please, as you mourn, see your friends and family, or watch TV all day (which I hope you don't do), try to remember what it is that we're fighting for in the first place, ok?
Without those freedoms in tact.. there's nothing left to fight for.
I love you guys, tho, and I'm glad it wasn't any of you who were lost a year ago
They just lowered the two flags outside my office window to half mast. The US flag and the NJ state flag. I didn't expect that. I just keep trying very hard not to cry, and that's making it harder. Technology seems very trivial this morning.
we speak the way we breathe --Fugazi
Anyone else feel that it is wrong for the media to cover this story so in depth, and ultimately make money on those that died and their families. I have decided not to watch any coverage. I remember very well what happened. Is any station doing coverage without any comercials? Or at least, is there one that is donating the amount they're making above what they usually do?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2251067.stm
The scoundreles that inflicted so much pain cannot hurt us any more, but we must find it in our hearts to forgive them.
We will never forget 9/11/01, but holding a grudge against a people is counter productive if we are really trying for World Peace.
--sig fault--
Some thoughts on this day of "rememberance" ca be found here and here. Another interesting thing is that all the major networks have decided to not show advertisements out of "respect". The truth is that they can't sell the time so they put a nice spin on it.
This is a question I hear around the office all day long. How does the american public at large, or in this case, the slashdot community, feel about the response America has had to the attack on september 11th?
I personally feel we are continuing to provoke such things through our economic agenda, and that what bush's policy has been shortsighted and really retro-active. Others feel that the world climate is changing for the worst, and we simply need to start protecting ourselves more. What do you think?
Why stick up for big business?
I like big cars, big guns, big motorcycles, and big tits. I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squeezing out babies.
I don't care about appearing compassionate. I think playing with guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe it's called the Boy Scouts for a reason. I think I'm better than the homeless. I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I don't care if you call me a racist, a homophobe or a misogynist. I am not tolerant of others just because they are different.
I know that no matter how big Jennifer Lopez's ass gets, I'll still want to see it. I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, you do it in English. I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.
I want to know when MTV became such crap. I think getting a hummer is sex, and every man is entitled to at least one extremely sloppy one per month.
I know what the definition of lying is. I think Oprah's eyes are way too far apart. I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet.
I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.
I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osborne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang. I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster.
I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package. I believe everyone has a right to pray to his or her God or gods, and they can do it in their schools. I think the Clippers should play in the WNBA.
My heroes are John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Norman Schwartzkopf, Colin Powell and whoever canceled Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman. I think creative violence and useless nudity and sex makes Iraqis deader and movies more interesting.
I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor. I know wrestling is fake, but I still think The Rock could kick my butt. I think global warming is junk science. I've never owned or was a slave, I didn't wander forty years in the desert after getting chased out of Egypt, I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you, so shut-the-fuck-up already.
Rocky and Bullwinkle still makes me laugh. I think you can respect and admire women while mentally undressing them. I believe a self-righteous liberal with a cause is more dangerous than a Play Station.
I want to know which church is it exactly where the Rev. Jesse Jackson preaches. I think explosions are cool. I don't care where Ellen DeGeneres puts her tongue. I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry ass if you're running from them. I thought Spinal Tap was great, but Rob Reiner can still kiss my ass.
I worry about dying before I get even.
I like the convenience of buying oranges while I'm waiting at a stoplight, and I'm pretty sure the Latina midget selling them to me is glad she no longer lives in a refrigerator packing carton outside Ensenada.
I figured out Bruce Willis was dead midway through The Sixth Sense but enjoyed it anyway. I think turkey bacon sucks. I want somebody to explain to me exactly why it's wrong to point out that when I watch a freeway chase, I know the losers the police eventually pull out of the car are gonna be gang-banging homies or hispanics.
I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a parent. I think tattoos and piercings are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement and not a fad. I like hard women, hard liquor and a hard bowel movement first thing in the morning.
I believe you don't have to speak with a lisp to pick out a couch for your living room.
I'll admit that the only movies that ever made me cry was Sands of Iwo Jima and Ole Yeller. I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. Making love is fine, but sometimes I just wanna get laid.
I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.
YES, I'm a BAD American.... >:-)
i guess that a moment of silence is best...
for the wtc victims
for the pentagon victims
for the future iraq victims
for everyone that has ever died through the hands of injustice, opression, agression and that old capitalist tool: imperialism.
The world trade center attack was a disgusting and cowardly act made by individuals who should all rot in whatever hell they believe in.
Also, anyone profiting from this event should also rot in hell. I cant be the only one who is tired of seeing merchandise related to this event that. Not that I want to forget, just enough is enough.
This is my sig. Its pathetic.
Remembering 9/11 and what happened is important, and will continue to be important. However, the media in general seems to be back to it's same old self. Tons of 'tribute' and 'what happened' shows that won't do any justice to the events. Pick your own way to respect those past.
maybe some prayer.
.commIEs.
beware the REAL
Feel free to mark your calendar for the other months besides September.
January 28, (1986) The Challenger Accident
February 13, (2001) San Salvador, El Salvador 6.1 Earthquake
March 24, (1989) Exxon Valdez
March 28, (1979) 3 Mile Island
April 18, (1906) The San Francisco Earthquake
April 19, (1995) The Oklahoma City Bombing
April 14, (1912) The Titanic
May 6th (1937) The Hindenburg Disaster
June 6th, (1944) D-Day
July 25, (1956) The Andrea Doria sinking.
August 6, (1945) Hiroshima Bombed
August 16 - 28 (1992) Hurricane Andrew
October 8, 9, and 10, (1871) The Great Chicago Fire
October 17, (1989) Loma Prieta earthquake
October 23-29, (1929) Stock Market Crash
November 17-18, (1978) Jonestown
November 22, (1963) Kennedy Assaination
December (1984) Union Carbide Bhopal Disaster
December 7, (1941) Pearl Harbour
December 21, (1988) Pan Am Flight 103 Lockerbie bombing
I was at the top of a 9 story building in Birmingham, UK. I was installing some software for a company, and slowely I became aware of everybody starting to talk. Wandering past a desk, I saw people looking at their web browsers and talking about the WTC. Heck, I didn't even know what the WTC was, except it was in America. I had no idea it was those two damn big buildings.
On the train back home, listening to the radio, I heard what had actually happened. The first reaction was shock, followed by "Oh My God".
Then came fear. Not of what could happen to me, but of what the Americans would do when they found out who did it. Back then, I was living in a hostel with around 120 other people, and it was a fear shared by the dozen or so people I talked to about what had happened.
I'm still a bit afraid of what the Americans might do, but not as much.
My thoughts go out to you all in the States. Hang in there, and remember that a lot of us in other countries are thinking of you.
Alas gallinaceas de urbe bovis volo
I will not forget Edward Earhart, 26, transferred to the National Ice Center last December after serving a three-year stint at Pearl Harbor. He, too, died during the Pentagon attack. Following in the Navy footsteps of his father and grandfather, Ed made meteorology a career -- his family talks about how Ed always relished tracking weather. Early this month, on his last visit home, Ed captured the curiosity of preschoolers by talking about clouds and weather in his cousin's classroom. Just as his friend Matthew Flocco, Ed earned high respect for his unflinching willingness to get a job done right. He talked often about his close family, their farm in Kentucky, and the Detroit Lions. He loved computers and was about to learn golf. In his memory, Ed's family has created a fund to help build a veterans' memorial.
projects @ http://spectechnologies.net
Several sites are running 9/11 front pages, notable Yahoo and Amazon.com. Some sites aren't, such as Google, some are more subtle such as Alltheweb.
Personally, I like the /. black banner. I suggest you click on it.
Also check out the Todd M Beamer Foundation. Make sure you have your credit card handy.
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
but a very well written intelegent point of view on 9/11 written in October by the lead sing of the shock rock band GWAR. here
adventure-today.com
A definate thanks goes out to the entire Slashdot crew for the quick update one year ago today... I happened to be doing my normal morning slashdot run when I found out about the mess.
;) Without you I would have been in the dark all morning, since all the mainstream news sites were useless.
And an even LARGER thank you to the users here at slashdot who happened to be in the comments thread that fateful day. Especially the guy who offered up the quicktime CNN Audio feed for the day. (And who's bandwidth bill for that month I would not want!)
Welcome to the rest of the world. The UK and lots of other countries have been suffering at the hands of terrorism for years. The fact that the USA joined this sad list last year doesn't really change much.
Yes it hurts, but it hurts the victims friends and families more than it effects the man-on-the-street. Let them grieve in peace.
...I found express what I feel quite nicely. The first article was found through Kuro5hin. The second article is from The Onion. The scary thing about The Onion article is how close to the truth they came this time while still maintaining the parody. I guess the only thing that dies on 9/11 is irony. Go figure.
For the Talaban who became 'terrorists' hmm nice that, I guess that the Irish government are also terrorist.................. and all the governments arround the world who refuse to hand over 'allegid' criminals to a hostile country without proof
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
As the Associated Press summarizes them:
Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
By The Associated Press
September 5, 2002, 11:44 AM EDT
Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:
* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.
* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.
* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Copyright © 2002, The Associated Press
Yay for liberty and freedom! We are Americans! Look how free we are!
I think it is safe to say that this date is now a significant one... my only hope is that, as we remember the events of 9/11, that Americans especially do not trivialize this day in years to come. It could happen. 20 years from now, people could be having cook-outs and parades.
That's what we Americans sometimes do - we forget what makes a day significant in the first place. Most people think of memorial day as a day off from work to go shopping...
May we never forget, and may our children never know the experience again in their lifetime.
"If you and I always agreed, then one of us would be unnecessary."
September 11th, 2001:
I was consulting at a company in Rockville, a few miles outside the district. I heard the first plane had hit while I was listening to WGMS, DC's classical station; figured it for a Cessna or something. After I hit my desk I knew something was wrong when I couldn't hit a major news site for confirmation of the story.
We switched the news on; we had a big TV with DirecTV on it in the company kitchen. I had stepped away to try and get word to friends about what had happened, using instant messenging apps, when the second plane hit.
The people in our kitchen reached the instantaneous conclusion that this was not accidental. We watched as the towers burned, saw them fall, heard about the Pentagon being hit. My company employed 65 people there; were they okay?
Workers left to take their children home. I left around 1pm, with F16s and helicopters covering the sky of the DC metro area.
I called my family. They were trying to reach me but couldn't get through due to circuits being jammed. They were terrified that I was there; too many rumors, too little verification that day for us all.
September 11th, 2002:
Last November, my company deployed me to the Pentagon. It started out as one of those "for a week" things, but I wound up involved in a COOP project - Continuity of Operations - directly related to making sure a second 9/11 cannot cripple our nation's defense infrastructure. I'm sitting at my desk, thinking of how much the last year has affected my life (too much work, constant stress, a divorce..) and knowing that the majority of the things that have happened to me of late can be directly traced back to 9/11; were it not for that attack, I would not be where I am now.
I do not know if things are for the better. All I know is that I have been called on to use my meager technical skills to help my country when it was sorely needed. I'm doing my part to make sure we make it through.
Would that we all could do the same.
However I'm glad you raised the point about the freedoms that have been lost. The US has become a little more like the non-free countries it is fighting with the government exploiting the opportunity to help hide its own inadequacies.
Naturally, the whole world needed a chance to vent about 9/11/01 in the days afterward. I find it interesting that 9/11/02 threads have also popped on my own board. I guess people need to vent about the remebrance, forced compliance to remembrance, or just a need to get away from all of the remembrance.
As an IS person, this has affected my job because we need to prepare a Disaster Recovery plan for SEC compliance. Also, more money and time has been put to basic security.
Personally, it makes me sad when I see readers not care about the day or realize its significance. The events of 9/11 were one of the most significant of this country's history. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Labor Day-like weekend excuse for tourism to push school back even later, Hallmark selling crap, and people getting drunk without remembering why the country is mourning.
My prayers go out to those NOT affected by 9/11, may they find peace in their souls and find the spirit of humanitarianism that many others have found.
After seeing that it would be a nice, pretty day, I left the TV on. I was watching when they broke into the Today Show to report a fire at the WTC. I stayed glued to the TV as they showed the second airplane crashing into the other tower, and the fires raging, and people jumping out of windows, and the towers collapsing, and the resulting images are forever graven into my mind.
Early on, I dialed up with my laptop. I wasn't one of the folks besieging Slashdot, but I did stay on IRC for hours, talking about what I saw. That turned out to be my only reliable communications channel. My cellphone was completely useless. I got more than a few phone calls from anxious relatives that I couldn't return because the lines were jammed. I finally asked a friend to call my parents in Houston and let them know I was fine and several miles away.
This past July 4 weekend, a friend and I visited Mount Rushmore. At the end of the day, we went to one of the Western dinner theater places out there. Most of the way through the show, they sang a song, "Where Were You When the World Changed?", about that day. I wound up having to leave in tears, as it brought back memories of that day, and how I couldn't get in touch with anyone except over the net. I don't know who wrote it (I asked, but have since forgotten the name - it was some country star), but he did a great job of capturing the feeling for the rest of us.
Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
of being reminded of 9/11. Yes it was horrible. Yes lets hope it never happens again. But let's not remind every single person of it every single day. I don't think a day has gone by in the last year where someone or something hasn't mentioned 9/11. Even those days where I almsot got by somebody would say something like "in this post 9/11 world..."
I just want everyone to give it up already. You don't see me talking about the holocaust every day. Because everythign is so different in "this post holocaust world"
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
Like many of us, I was at work when the attacks occurred, and once I found out what was going on, went to the major news web sites for more information (remember, the inital reports were simply that a plane had struck one of the World Trade Center Towers). Of course, by that time, the major news sites were inaccessible due to the amount of traffic.
Until I was able to get to a TV to get more details, Slashdot was my main source of information on the events of the day, and IIRC, it did a pretty good job of keeping up to date on what had happened.
So thanks, everyone - the editors and the readers that posted with information that day. Good work was done here a year ago today.
And turning off the banner ads today is a class move, especially in light of so many other companies' crass attempts at merchandising 9/11.
The net is sufficiently clobbered again today.
You'd like to believe that since the 9/11 events of last year that the major news carriers would have learned that during a huge event like this that people are going to try to find out news and information as frequently as possible, and that having the infrastructure to handle the traffic would be worth their while. But it seems that this hasn't happened quite yet.
Of course, the amount of people coming online every year increases probably faster than the infrastructure can keep up, but it seems some things never change...
Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
For that matter, they didn't run commercials for two or three days after the attacks.
Best Slashdot Co
I guess this lump in my throat will be here every September 11. Funny that all the time I've had to adjust and cope with this seems to melt off when I think about the significance of the day or even see a flag. It sucks, I have no other way to describe it. Plain sucks. Even know I have those semi-tears, little bastards that just cling to the edge of your eye while you swear that you can conduct yourself in a manner befitting your age. Well fuck. That anger is still inside too. To everyone then, and God bless....
One year after, many doubts have surfaced and the legitimity of the US president isn't actually certain.
You accused Oussama bin Laden of such a tragedy but where are your evidences ?
No, I don't mean these tapes that appear on CNN on a regular basis.
You also want to invade Iraq, which is your problem because there's nothing less certain that this will help you.
I don't want to speak about "conspiracy theories", here because I actually feel sorry for the victims of 911.
I'd just want you to think about it twice before starting a World War. This is not a fair war because you'll be bombing innocent people while other angry people will suddenly begin attacking you as a reaction.
This is also something that will ruin your economy.
So, if this story is about friendship, then, take it as from a friend : stop this war, stop Bush.
A guy that asks his lawyers whether he may bypass your congress in order to "open the Gate of Hell" is not a trustworthy leader.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Despite this site slowing to a crawl itself, thanks for posting the news early and allowing those not near a television to follow the tragic events.
---
interested in inventions?
So, it's a year later and still we don't know where Osama bin Laden is, it seems we've forgotten about Afghanistan and now Bush is getting ready to pre-emptively attack Iraq. From what I've read about Saddam Hussein he doesn't just sit around in one place either, so what happens when they can't find him?
:) And remember, opinions are like arseholes - we all are one. Err, have one ;)
What is it with all these stories coming out now about how Iraq could have nuclear weapons in like 30-40 seconds? Seriously though, a few months ago they were saying "2-3 years", now it's down to "6 months" or less. Are they making excuses to attack Iraq? Can't it be argued that the US is also a country with weapons of mass destruction and a warmongering leader?
It is a shame that civilians died in the terrorist attacks, but what about the civilians the US has killed in Afghanistan, like that wedding - they excuse it by saying some collateral damage is to be expeced. Why do they say that the 'terrorist' attacks were "cowardly"? It'd take a fairly brave and strong willed person to willingly fly themselves into a building. If they were cowardly they'd just talk about how they were going to attack America but do nothing about it.
What is it with removing all images of the WTC from movies etc in the last year?! It happened, we all know it happened. Removing the WTC from media I would think is an insult to the victims, it's as if they're saying that the buildings never existed.
Enough typing for me, flame away
However, I do think it is worth as this point reflecting on the foreign policy of sucessive US governments, that is the governments that have helped create Saddam's milirary might, backed the Talibans rise to power, backed Israel and other Pro-American Arab reigems which suppress their own people and finally (especially for us Brits) helped fund the IRA - who have been systimatically blowing up and killing people in both the UK and Ireland for well over 20 years.
George Bush stated that last year was when the world rose up to fight against terrorism. In fact, the world has been rising up and fighting terrorism for over 20 years and had it not been for September 11th, the US would still have not been involved.
I'm not using these points as an excuse for what the Taliban did. Any group that carries out such a thing are despicable - but I believe that the US Goverment should stand back and reflect all the possible concequences of what their policy of meddling in (and funding of) hardline groups of individuals in other countries could bring about.
I observed a minutes silence today, both for the innocent victims of September 11th and for the innocent victims of the future who will suffer when the US seeks to take revenge.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I just want to say that I know there are going to be stupid, childish, disrespectful comments here and everywhere else any of us decide to look today but I just want to remind every /. reader that it may infuriate, frustrate and maybe even hurt you to see these "Anonymous Coward"'s do this but remember that this is precisely what makes this country great. Better than to be in China where you can be sure that every post has been moderated by your government and that names are being taken down. The freedom to be an idiot and insensitive is just as integral to every other part of our freedoms. Dont' let it get you mad (as it did me at first) just be thankful that we can even have a /. to say all of this at. And corporate or not I appreciate OSDN's gesture today and personally think the coverage in other media is appropriate. WOuld they do this in other countries that aren't as free as ours? I not sure they would.
Find a copy of Aviation Week and Space Technology Nov. 1 1999
Read about the Payne Stewart plane crash.
It will open your eyes!
I realize this is a small point, but there is no way that you posted that the WTC & Pentagon was attacked as the headline at 9:12 Eastern a year ago. The Pentagon wasn't hit until a little after 9:30 (as I and everyone else in DC would tell you). I know that you updated the story and changed the headline when it occured, but clearly at 9:12 last year folks in DC were still in shock from the acts in NY and very few of us realized that we'd be evacuating our city and streaming over our bridges on foot like our friends in NY.
Mark
While you're publicly tired of hearing about it, what would you have us do? Forget it?
We need to remember what happenned and why. If we just go back to our day to day lives then it WILL happen again, regardless of your hopes. Just like the Holocaust.
Those who ignore history are destined to repeat it. It's not just a pithy saying...
If you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Not 2001, but 1973.
Backed by the US government and the CIA, Augusto Pinochet seizes control of the Chilean military. The previous commander, Rene Scheider, was assassinated by the CIA when he refused to lead a coup against the democratically elected president, Dr. Salvador Allende, who was murdered in his home. This began a 2-decade long reign of terror in which thousands were imprisoned, tortured and killed, and thousands more were exiled.
Let's hope the next "regime change" is better managed, or Ground Zero and Desert Storm II will only be the start of the West's problems.
BRING YOUR AIRPLANE TO WORK DAY
(Yeah, I know it's crass and I just blew karms but I'm fed up with seeing so much media and commercial appropriation of these events with faux-maudlin opportunism. Same goes for the USian government using it as an excuse for a totalitarian power grab.)
. We've got computers, we're tapping phone lines, you know that ain't allowed - Talking Heads, "Life During Wartime"
.. disabling the banners.
God Bless America
Live web cams
I'm just aware that there are 700 million people out there who are seething with jealous rage and want me, personally, dead. I'm going to act appropriately.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Why did these people carry out this act?
We need to create a world where people don't believe the way to move forward is through acts of terror or oppression.
My thoughts are with those who have died through terror or oppression over the centuries. We must find a better way forward.
We're one year on from the indefensible murder of several thousand civilians in New York. No right minded person can have anything but condemnation for that act of pure evil.
We should remember however, that the pain and sense of loss from the destruction of an innocent life is the same all over the world and for those of all religions.
The lasting legacy of the WTC attack should not be war nor more death and suffering.
Reginald Molehusband. Edinburgh, Scotland
The whole point of the matter is that no one deserves death, even those who take up arms against you.
You may not want to mourn the deaths of those who make war, but you should mourn there decision to make war in the first place.
It is the idea that people deserve death for there actions, no matter what those actions are, that has gotten us into this whole mess.
Honor those who fell on 9/11/2001 by striving for peace and harmony. Don't wish death even on your enemies. Pity them for their mis-guided rage, but don't wish death on them.
Whether you are christian, muslim, jew or otherwise, the common thread is that man does not determine who lives and dies, god does. Think about that.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
I think that the most troubling thing coming into the first anniversary of the attack is some of the stuff purportedly being done in the names of those who died, and (just as importantly) what isn't being done.
All the legislation passed supposedly to further the cause of the "war on terror", with the amount of true freedom that was taken away with it (or has the potential to be taken away)...the sheer audacity of our leaders sometimes reminds me of kids loose in a candy store (my best friend compares it to Lord of the Flies)...
How soon we all went back to our divisive bickering over our differences, be the difference ethnicity or religion or income level...
The outcry over attempts to educate our younger generation about the Muslim world...while I agree that such teachings should not be mandated without equal consideration being given to all sides (so, for example, a required reading assignment of a history of Muslim culture should be accompanied by texts on Christian-Muslim, Jewish-Muslim, and Christian-Jewish relations through history), the mere idea that this is pushing some sort of agenda is a telling indicator that many of us still don't have a clue...
I will be respectful, I will honor the dead, but I won't do anything stupidly symbolic.
I work for a major telecom company based in Washington. As I'm about to submit this, at this time last year, we were about 15 minutes away from evacuating our headquarters and moving our critical 24/7 operations to our backup facility. My biggest regret was not calling the one I loved most and telling her that I was okay, even if it was just a voice mail message -- she didn't hear from me for hours. For all she knew, I was hopelessly trapped in traffic or spun out in a ditch somewhere in my attempt to flee the District and get to the backup site.
I sincerely honor the dead. It's too much to ask, but I wish the rest of us would do the same.
We can believe in you for 3 minutes, but beyond that, even the King of All Cosmos can't be expected to wait.
A co-worker had a friend who worked at Cantor-Fitzgerald.
Another friend knew someone who was killed at the Pentagon.
Seeing a CAP over my hometown was surreal.
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Hmmm...soo true. Sad but true. Reminds me of a story.
Was getting gas one day and saw a woman in a Chevy Tahoe, fully decked out with all the options, grill guard on the front, step bars on the side and brush guards on the taillamps.
One sweet ride to go off roading in. I asked the little soccer mom how does that handle off road.
She looked at me funny and said "Offroad? Now why would I want to take this off road?"
Turned out she only got that truck because her neighbors bought one too.
I know I will get flamed for this, but here goes. I find it hypocritical when people want to remember the dead of spetember 11, but we forget that we kill 3500 unborn babies everyday! In war we think it is alright if innocent civilians die, and we call it collateral damage! Honestly as a nation are we any less of killers than those terrorists?
Also in the name of terrorism, some of our freedoms have been taken away! Is there reason to be happy for our foreign policy especially in the middle east? Well no! We are just supporting a form racism there and we have done it all the more since spetembet 11.
As for those who have experienced death, my heart goes ut to you. Death is never happy.
United We Stand...
Today more than ever should be a day where we realize that united we stand, divided we fall.
Not as a nation, not as a religious group, not as a terrorist organization.
Today we need to stand together as human beings.
We all live on this planet together and if we can learn to live together in peace, man to man, woman to woman, country to country, religion to religion, then there is nothing that we can't achieve.
We are one house and a house divided cannot stand.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Some colleagues rescued the Post 9/11 domain from some squatters who were doing something crass.
They've set up a site on some free servers (so don't expect top-notch performance) with some discussion boards and plan to continue what's essentially a post-9/11 blog to news, analysis and other resources about how the world has changed for all of us in the last year.
I guess each of us deal with those events in different ways. Some do it positively, others not so much so. I'm just glad the squatters dont get the last word on this one.
I do not feel that the US goverment is trying to achieve anything out of this other than the mid-term elections. Quietly and cynically using this to cover up the fact various characters in the current administration have been associated with some very bad practices. None of them have served in the US forces that they want to send to Iraq.
Edward (Ted) R. Hennessy Jr. 1966-2001
belmont high class of 1984
Harvard class of 88 (Cum Laude)
Kellog School of Business 93 (MBA)(Computer Science award)
Partner and Principal Consultant, Emergence Consulting, Lincoln Ma.
Ted was a member of the Hasty Pudding and co-wrote "Whiskey
Business", their show in 1989.
He was the musical coordinator for the "Special-K Review" at Kellog during his
time there.
Wife Melanie (My Sister)
Children Rachel, 6 and Matthew, almost 4
Parents Edward and Geraldine (Big Ted and Gerry) Hennessy (Belmont)
Sisters Sue and Kathy
Nephews and Nieces Sharon, 10, Megan (my Daughter), 10, Jimmy, 8, Timmy, 4 and
Patrick, 18 Mos.
Ted was smart, funny, honest, friendly, bald and allergic to cats.
Ted played Guitar (and bass and 12 string). he had a small home recording
studio in his office where he would compose and record original music.
At family get togethers, he would gather the kids and play "Wild Thing" while
the kids sang along.
His and My Sister's favorite movie to watch together was "The Princess Bride"
He was a Geek. Just last week he setup DSL and 802.11b networking in his house.
He travelled 3 days a week, and to compensate for being away so much he devoted
all of his remaining time to his family.
every friday was date night with my sister.
every saturday was spent with the kids at a museum, aquarium, zoo or nature
park.
My Sister always dreamed of marrying Prince Charming and being a stay-at-home
mommy.
until one year ago today, all her dreams had come true.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
I seem to remember that we
-- Intervened in Serbia to prevent another European genocide
-- Intervened in Somalia to relieve a self-inflicted famine
-- Intervened in Vietnam to stop the spread of Communism
-- Intervened in Iraq to stop a local Hitler
You know what? I'm not too terribly interested in finding forgiveness for myself in hearts that object to these interventions.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
I believe you don't have to speak with a lisp to pick out a couch for your living room.
One year ago today the United States of America, or as we call it here in Canada, "The States," was attacked. The U.S. response was reasoned, intelligent, and graceful. Hats off to you.
The U.S. is often likened to a schoolyard bully, and nobody likes a bully. But what kind of bully only acts when provoked? What kind of bully sits on an offender just long enough to make them say "Uncle Sam," then picks them up, dusts them off, wipes their noses, and sends them on their way with an admonition to "play nice from now on."
No shoolyard bully that I know acts that way. That sounds more like a teacher.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
That's true, but many liberals are using security as a camoflauge to reduce out liberties. A selfish and heinous crime indeed.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
Like our buddy George W. is really looking out for the civil liberties of Americans. About a year ago, I got laid off and remember watching the CNN coverage as the second plane hit the WTC. The first thought that popped into my head was not about the horror of the event or even those who dies but rather a disturbed feeling that this is the start of a long erosion of everyone's rights.
Today, we have secret courts used to judge people, the FBI/CIA is allowed to perform surveillance on anyone and everyone and the key to the equation...no one is liable or reporting to freedom's biggest driver - us. Before we start bashing a political party, just understand that the old and true parties need to take the blame for the lack of freedom today.
I'm fairly sure that the President was a fighter pilot.
The rest of your comment is equally fact-free.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Some of you may have noticed the satellite photos of the smoke and "other stuff" that streamed south from Ground Zero. I live in Brooklyn and was right under that cloud. There was a fine white-grey powder that fell for about 20 minutes. I'm a stay-at-home Dad. I How can I explain the feeling when my kids asked why it was snowing. They were upset that it wasn't real snow and I wouldn't let them outside to play as I swept up. I just told them that it was dirt that had blown down from Manhattan. My wife works a whole 3 blocks from Ground Zero but was home taking my school-age daughter to her first day a school. I'll go to my grave remembering the feeling that I was sweeping out a crematoria in front of my house.
I was going to get married Sept. 15th 2001 to an American Citizen. Her entire family lives and works in NYC -- actually, her brother worked for one of the biggest tenant in the WTC. Thanks to the job I had a few years ago, I was also able to spend a lot of time in NYC, and I like this city a lot.
My mom called me up on my cell phone to let me know about the attack. As soon as I got home, I turned on the TV and the I could not stop staring at the horrible destruction on the screen. Calling my fiance family was, of course, simply impossible. We received news that everyone was OK by email, the next day.
My story is not a tragic (or even a special) one -- we got married on the 15th after all, without her family as they were all stuck in NYC -- but I just wanted to write this to let every New Yorker, and especially the families of the NYFD/NYPD/WTC victims know that they are in my prayers and in my thoughts. We were all Americans on Sept. 11th.
World Peace is a dillusion of the soft hearted. A dream of something that never has been and never will be. Bloodshed is inevitable, just as war with Iraq is inevitable. It's going to happen sooner or later, so we might as well get into it now while we still have the advantage. If Iraq attains nuclear weapons, we'll be trapped in a standoff - an new cold war. We'll have no choice but to fear their sovereignty. We should bomb them now. Turn the entire place into one big glass wasteland. Then we can deal with the likes of Iran and the other terrorist sponsoring scum. Innocent people will die, but innocent people have always been dying. They died in the towers, and in the planes. They die under the power of their cruel middle-eastern Lords, and they die when some bastard suicide bombs a nightclub. Then when we have all those idiots out of the way, we can go about tightening security at home so no more nuts like Timothy McVeigh or John Walker Lindh come up out of our own ranks, those whiny little ingrates. I want our schools moderated closely for people who might be unpatriotic ideas. The same goes for church's, synagogue's, and mosque's. We'll cover all the bases to keep the whiner's in check - I don't care who you worship, just as long as you're not teaching anything that could be construed as un-American. I love democracy and freedom as much as the next guy, but now is not the time to be bothering with the window dressing. This is war! They brought it to us, now let's bring it to them. Damn them all to Hell.
Personally, I was hoping that Slashdot would be the one place I would have a remote chance of avoiding this. Truth is that I mourn every day. I mourn the loss of Palestinian and Israeli lives. I mourn the regularly scheduled genocides in Angola. I mourn the more than 6000 "unintended" civilian deaths during the bombing of Afganistan. I mourn the millions of people all over the world dying of starvation or filthy water or lack of basic medical attention. And I honestly don't see why the fact that it happened in NYC makes it more important. Maybe someone can enlighten me. These people get their names read on TV all over the world and the others just simply die while people turn a blind eye. Makes me sick, actually. And when another terror attack takes place, I won't really be surprised. But enjoy your TV programs...
Devon
I happened to be in one of the towers on 9/11. I'm sick of hearing it; I think anyone in the towers at the time are sick of hearing about this. We'd like to move on, I'm watching CNN now and I'm just disgusted, this whole thing disgusts me. Nothing but leeches, money grubbers and people trying to take away my rights dwell on 9.11
I don't want a moment of silence; I'd like silence on the subject for a while; completely.
Yes, 9/11 was horrific. But the only reason that it is special to the US is because it was on home soil and that just brings home the point that -anyone- is susceptible to terrorist attacks if their foreign or internal policies make them targets.
Look to the future, get your warmongering President out of office or it will happen again, be sure of it. Consider the stupid Irish/UK policies and how much grief they have brought.
Goodbye Karma!
-- Azaroth
I see "sponsorship messages" on there all day long...
"Send an Instant Karma to me" - Yes
For your best media coverage in the US, please turn to listener supported NPR. Here in Austin, TX, I have the impression that Clearchannel is taking a day to build a brand name. NPR is doing what they always do, trying to represent as best as they can the events that happen.
Save bandwidth. Listen to the radio. Or, if you're at work and can't get radio reception (like me), their live program stream is available in Quicktime, Real, or Windows Media. Politics aside, most people's computers can handle one of those programs.
Their online coverage is available here, and their program schedule is here. Please note that all times are in Eastern time.
The families and friends of those who died won't be allowed to mourn in peace when there's money to be made of it, primarily the one-ups-manship going on with the TV stations who are using this as an attempt to boost their regular viewing times, thus earn more money from advertising because "We have 50% market share on 9/11".
America makes me sick sometimes.
Those freedoms are being threatened by terrorist and domestic liberalism. Get your facts straight!
Really? When did we elect Bin Laden as President ? I didn't think he signed the US Patriot Act into Law, I thought GW Bush did. Terrorists can't take away our freedom, short of a full scale invasion, only our government can. As I recall, Bush is a conservative, if he is bent on protecting our freedom, why did he sign the US Patroit Act (which guts the constitution) ? Why is his administration holding American citizens without charging them with anything, without access to a lawyer, without any trial, let alone a speedy trial with a jury of peers ? I suspect you need to rethink that statement.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
Let's start a thread to discuss what exactly we were all doing at that very moment.
For me I was playing Counter Strike (at 6AM PST). I was having a hell of a good time using the scout. Then out of nowhere someone types something like "damn I feel weird playing terrorist seeing that the WTC has just been hit by terrorists."
Obviously I didn't believe him, so he said "turn on your TV". I did and damn it was true. That whole day I didn't sleep. My eyes were glued to the TV.
eTrade SUCKS
One year after 9/11 I think not everything as been done to prevent terrorists from repeating this attack.
Even yesterday I saw a news piece where 2 journalists easily entered several airplanes carrying cutters and knifes. They did in several big european airports. One was even carrying the cutter in his back pocket partially uncovered.
From my point of view the best way of preventing this kind of attacks would be to disable any way of entering the cockpit from the passenger area (even knowing this could present dangers).
for the future iraq victims
This is the coolest thing I'we ever seen. "We're going to attack your country to control your oil exports, some of you will get killed in the process, so we'l have a moment of silence rigth now.".
Poor Iraqi people,. hihi .. Don't mess With Uncle Sam !
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
>for the future iraq victims >for everyone that has ever died through the >hands of injustice, opression, agression and >that old capitalist tool: imperialism.
Darnit, why does everyone on Slashdot feel like they always have to pile on the political rhetoric thick and high no matter what the occasion. Can't we just take one day to drop the Right vs. Left crap and mourn for the dead?
I'm ashamed at this site sometimes, especially looking back at many of the high scoring posts from 9/11 that basically said we got what we deserved. Those women and men, mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, just trying to mind their own business and go to work did not deserve to die a fiery death that day. Nor do they deserve to have their rememberance used as a launching point for cheap political attacks.
Brian EllenbergerAfter 9/11 last year I heard a lot of families all saying the same thing. They all wanted just one more day with their deceased family members so they can let them know how much they were loved. So, I came to a decision. I'm not going to be glued to the television to see any memorial services. In fact, I decided that today I will not turn on the television or radio at all. I will not be attending any local memorial services either. In what will become a family tradition, I am having my whole family over tonight, because I have the time now, the time that so many families would just love to have back. I am going to spend the day appreciating and thanking God for what I have, rather than lamenting over what "we" have lost. If you have kids, turn off the tv and spend some quality time with them (seeing planes flying into buildings isn't really helping them anyway).I think we all should take this day to get in touch with our loved ones and let them know how we feel right now, because, if nothing else, 9/11 taught us that we could lose everything we love in a single moment.
I'm sure lots of people will do different things today as a reaction to what happened, but this is just my opinion. I'm not saying it's for everybody.
I've spent the most part of my life studying epistemology. Epistemology can be defined as an attempt to frame an answer to questions dealing with how it is we can know. More recently, in the last decade my studies have keyed more on trying to glimpse an insight into the presuppositions that underlie our world view. September 11 seemed to bury whatever pathways to understanding I might have investigated and left me feeling at best, somehow, impertinent and clinging to facile solutions. Perhaps what comes of the horror of events like 9/11 is that we carry on.
DO NOT GO GENTLE INTO THAT GOOD NIGHT
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light
Dylan Thomas
cheers
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Thanks for the tagline!
U.S. Democracy: born 7/4/1776, died 12/12/2000 R.I.P.
Larry Miller wrote a great article for the Weekly Standard a while back, and I found it to be a refreshing read.
He's also written another article dated today to discuss 9/11.
Enjoy.
$0.02 (CDN)
Thanks OSDN
Your Servant, B. Baggins
Details: I'm white, conservative (relatively), Christian and let me tell you what I'm seeing:
Our character is not substantially altered, as NPR commentator Daniel Shore put it.
My take, that I have been formulating for months, is that we are just as greedy, pushy and self-absorbed as we were a year ago. Our level of consumption in the country is gross, and passed the abusive mark years ago. We have continued our unsustainable lifestyle by sucking dry the resources of the world, essentially exporting poverty to other countries so that we can live large.
Our economy has evolved to become unsustainable. One country can't continually consume the majority of the whole planets resources and not expect a backlash from the rest of the inhabitants.
Anyone remember Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" (1926)? The spoiled priviledged class living large on the backs of the workers? Sound familiar?
SO the real question is not "how have we changed" but rather, "what are YOU doing to change?"
Pax, Americana
flames > dev/null
Go ahead, tell me.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
I don't think anyone is ever going to forget 9/11/01, regardless of whether there is extensive media coverage or not.
We don't need the media to help us remember, or deal with the feelings of loss or anger... That isn't what the media does, they exploit what happens in our daily lives, and then continue to do so ad infinium...
Everyone remember what happened a year ago, but don't dwell on it. 3,000+ civilians losing their lives to an act of terror is no worse than 1 civilian losing their life to an act of terror.
Acts of terror are as much a way of life for the people in the middle east as "mom and apple pie" is for Americans.. The cilvilans there have to deal with stuff like this happening every day, hundreds lose their lives there every year due to car bombs, suicide bombers, you name it... Why doesn't the world mourn for them??
The answer: Nobody's afraid of pissing off a small middle eastern country like they are the US of A...
The whole thing stinks of a class struggle.
The poor, overworked french proletariat?
The middle east people.
The borgeousie?
The small population of the middle east that make up the economically tyranical regimes which hold the oil hostage.
Marie antoinette? Who was not an evil woman, but
was wholly unaware of the economic hell she was putting the french people through? Who used to play "Peasant" on the weekends in a mansion supposedly built up like a peasant's house in order to feel more in touch with france?
The naive americans who feel like they are doing the right thing, who feel like they are in it to make the world safer, who are in actuality forking over their money, driving their SUVs, to the tyranical oil regimes that are destroying the middle east.
Why stick up for big business?
As much as a terrible thing that 9/11 was, I can't help but be much more concerned for those 250 people that die each day because of Iraq sanctions, of the millions starving around the world because we rich people are too unwilling to solve it, because of the abusive and dominative policies we western nations place on other countries, and the many more greater evils that we are responsible for.
The terrorist attacks on 9/11 seem to have been a response to many of these problems. They targeted pentagon - a symbol of military power, and the world trade center - a symbol of capitalism.
Revenge seems unjustified to me unless those who were affected can look at themselves first and say "Is there anything that I am guilty of that would make it injust for me to seek revenge?" I think that unless the western nations look at their faults, which are much more grevious than what the terrorists have done, we are even more guilty than they.
We need to look at ourselves and clean ourselves so that we are without excuse. Only then can we justly say "We did you no wrong, and this is how you repay us?"
Right now many peoples and countries have the right to complain against western evils, and we are certainly far from being without fault.
Mourn on this day, but don't look past the facts that the problem will not be solved by war - it will only be increased. Attacking Afghanistan has solved nothing, and attacking Iraq will solve nothing also.
The solution is with ourselves - recognising and mourning all those evil qualities we all possess, and all those actions we are guilty of. Otherwise how can one murderer say to another "what you did was disgusting and you deserve to die" without saying the same thing to themself?
It saddens me that 9/11 could have been used as a catalyst to produce lasting change in people's hearts. Instead, we are now on the road to war with Iraq which seems to be against the wishes of almost every nation, with worldwide warnings of disastrous consequences.
The solution is at home.
I felt like a zombie for the next few days. All of Slashdot's team worked together to update stories and struggle against traffic that spiked to 3 times our usual peaks. Spare boxes were stolen for the cause and brought online. Meanwhile we did our best to make sense of what was happening along with everyone else.
I'm still very proud of how we handled our tiny share of that day and the aftermath. I know that what we did helped some. And I seriously feel honored that I was able to help.
I've actually been on edge all week knowing that this story was going to be posted on Slashdot. It forced me to reread much of our original coverage. It forced me to relive those frantic first minutes, and the hours, days, and weeks that followed it.
I hope this story manages to help some others too. It has already helped me.
Pants are still optional, but recommended for you.
Let's say that I've changed for the bad. I'm more paranoid now, and I look at every Middle Eastern person I see and wonder if I should call the authorities. Is this the kind of person I want to be? Would this really be a change to be proud of? Or, as we've heard said so many times, would this mean that "the terrorists win"? Would I find it funny now to send white powder to my enemies? Or spraypaint graffiti on a mosque? So no, I'd prefer to think that I have not changed for the worse.
Ok, then, maybe I've changed for the better. Maybe I'm one of these people like I read about in the paper this morning that says stuff like "After 9/11 I decided to not let the small stuff bother me anymore. I wouldn't shove my way off the subway, or flip off the guy that runs the red light when I'm trying to cross the street." My response to this? What in God's name made the tragic death of 3000 people the reason that you suddenly decided to become a nice person? Shouldn't you have ALWAYS been like this? Couldn't I have gotten up any morning of the year and said "I'm going to be a nice person today"?? And perhaps more importantly, does it make you feel better to really *do* it, or just to say it? This morning somebody ran a red light while I was trying to cross the street. I flipped him off. I'm no hypocrite - I never claimed I wouldn't do that, because I never expected it would be a promise I could keep. Meanwhile there really is a column in today's paper from a woman apologizing for "giving a guy a nasty look" on the subway. Well, at least she recognized her own hypocrisy and tried to make amends.
Maybe you really have changed. Maybe you are a model citizen these days. You said it, you meant it, you're proving it every day. So now you're in a position where you've got the terrorists to thank. Isn't that special. Don't try to debate it -- you've just admitted that it took a terrorist act to smack you upside the head and make you wake up to your influence on the world around you. So sorry that 3000 people died, but at least you got something out of it. How long is it going to last? Are you a good person forever, or has your attention already gone on to other things? What did you promise yourself on 9/12? Have you checked up on that list lately?
Maybe you were a good person all along. You regularly do charity work, and donate your time and money, and think about your fellow man. Then I expect that 9/11 didn't change you at all. It just gave you an opportunity to feel that your good deeds actually make a difference in the world.
"September 11 changed me" is not something to be proud of. It should be an admission that you needed a wakeup call, and it took a tragedy of such magnitude to make it happen. The best possible outcome you can hope for? Now that you're awake -- STAY THAT WAY. Ask yourself every day if you're really awake to the world around you and your place (and influence) in it. Because if you're not, then who knows what the next tragedy is going to be to make you *really* wake up.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Last year sitting in class wondering what was going on. Thanx to slashdot (the only site that wasnt "slashdotted" i was able to know what was happening and links to many different resources that were not affected by all the courious people.
Thanx for all the great geek news and for keeping us informed in times of tragity
-Eric
Well, I'm sorry, but 9/11 is more an excuse for abuse of political power right now as I see. I'm more sad that all those that died have their deaths tied to the crap that the government has done since 9/11.
How many more will die because we shorted many other departments of the government and threw it all into military? ( Before you make a fool out of yourself, do yourself a favor and actually LOOK at the budget before spazzing out. ) How many will die because we were too busy mourning those that have passed away already instead of helping those who are in need NOW?
Celebrates and corperations will continue to feed off 9/11 for attention alone until everyone stops being so guilible. And if anything, everyone hates America 10x more today than they did in 9/11. Maybe security is enhanced, but right now we're busy making a lot of enemies in the world.
Most news sources give you the news you want to hear. I seriously suggest going to a direct news source that doesn't only post the Reuters / AP stories that they think are appropriate.
Just a reminder - more people die in Africa from a SINGLE disease daily than die in 9/11. Many deadly disease take lives of innocents daily. Do you lend them the same ears? No, their cries go mainly unheard by the powers that be. Sure, we put some cash towards helping them, but its just enough to make politicians look like they care. In reality, we just plain ignore their castastrophy.
Just go look at the numbers. Sept. 11th was a tragedy, but when it comes to playing with 'the big boys of death', it doesn't even come close. 2,000 some deaths versus tens of millions of death?
If anything, with 9/11 we've shown the world just how much power we've had all along, and just how ignorant we are when it comes to using this power. This power now seems completely focused on the military, instead of helping others in much worst conditions. Maybe helping countries stop dying from something as trivial as hunger would be a wonderful start. ( But they don't count? Yeah, now look who is brainwashed. )
All in all, I'd say disease is the real threat to humanity presently. Many people suffer from it, and many people die from it. How about huge government projects researching into new treatments for diseases? Or spreading the current lifesaving treatments we have to those that need them TO LIVE. This isn't just a pipedream, people. We have the means to do it, but not the will.
Anyways, I'm going to try to not laugh in someones face today when they put on their tragic faces. Yes, it was a tragedy. Get over it. It's over. Move on. Help people who need help now, and stop doing what anyone could do - just mourn.
I purchased a red/white/blue ribbon from a fireman at a stoplight just a few days after the attack, and it is still on my car antenna, albeit a bit dirtier now. I don't need to wear red white and blue to work today, even though it was "suggested". I don't need some kind of mandated or suggested sign of solidarity.
I was really surprised at how soon Americans went back to their daily lives. Saddened, really. It wasn't long before I heard my first Bin Laden joke, or was emailed pictures of him with a building going up his butt, or saw a Tshirt with a target on his face. I was amazed, but not really surprised, at how quickly good ol' Americans returned to their stupid, over the top, to the EXTREME! ways. It was nice to see a flag on everyone's car. It was sad to see some cars with 30 flags on them. It was nice to see sentiments of freedom, sad to see such bravado and machismo. I kid you not, someone near where I work painted their house red, white, and blue, with big hand painted letters phrase "Justice will prevail".
Sometimes I am very proud to be an American, but sadly sometimes I am a little embarassed. Today, I am going to be proud. Proud of the fact that we do enjoy freedoms in this country. That we try to offer it to everyone. Even if it means that you can act like an ass sometimes. That we have clean water to drink, and plenty of food to eat. That I have a beautiful wife of 3 months. Sad that corporations are so greedy and controlling, and that money is such a driving force. Sad that so many people lost their lives because of ignorance and fear. Hope - that we can all get beyond what happened a year ago, and what atrocities happen every single day on this planet. If there is a God, may she bless us all.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
As the events were happening, most of the major news sites were getting knocked down or were being sluggish about things. At my college, I had mentioned to my RA that www.slashdot.org had good coverage and speeds. Word quickly spread and next thing we knew, an email from the president of the college was sent out to all the students and faculty about things to do and web sites to go to, and sure enough, slashdot was listed. Kudos to you guys for keeping up with the coverage and again for having a nice fat pipe to push it all out on! It really helped, and I'm sure my college wasn't the only location where /. became a main source of coverage as cnn.com etc got knocked down by a hundred million people surging onto the net.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
Than Almitra spoke, saying, "We would ask now of Death."
And he said:
You would know the secret of death.
But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life?
The owl whose night-bound eyes are blind unto the day cannot unveil the mystery of light.
If you would indeed behold the spirit of death, open your heart wide unto the body of life.
For life and death are one, even as the river and the sea are one.
In the depth of your hopes and desires lies your silent knowledge of the beyond;
And like seeds dreaming beneath the snow your heart dreams of spring.
Trust the dreams, for in them is hidden the gate to eternity.
Your fear of death is but the trembling of the shepherd when he stands before the king whose hand is to be laid upon him in honour.
Is the sheered not joyful beneath his trembling, that he shall wear the mark of the king?
Yet is he not more mindful of his trembling?
For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun?
And what is to cease breathing, but to free the breath from its restless tides, that it may rise and expand and seek God unencumbered?
Only when you drink form the river of silence shall you indeed sing.
And when you have reached the mountain top, then you shall begin to climb.
And when the earth shall claim your limbs, then shall you truly dance.
Rapid Nirvana
My photos are here
also Here is New York has many good photos as well.
I mean, other than atomizing the whole region.
Not flame-bait, just asking. In a year, did anyone come up with a way of solving that 50+ year old problem?
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
My dad noted that today is also the anniversary of the 1976 military coup against the democratically elected government in Chile.
Here's a link http://www.pir.org/chile.html about the involment of the US.
And NO this does not mean that last years September 11th wasn't a great tradegy and possibily the worst day I've experienced during my life. I'm also getting sick and tired of some leftist (I consider myself one too, but that's an other matter...) Finns telling us others that we should not mourn for the innocent victims in New York just because we don't mourn for all the victims of all the other mass murders of Ruanda or other places.
...know what's good for others. To prove it, we've been living the good life for quite some time.
As for oil, we pay for it.
As for internation courts, well, let me just point out that Libya is now, with French connivance, heading up the U.N Commission on Human Rights.
Totalitarianism is in the hands that have always held it, and people like you are the silent co-conspirators.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
It's weird, I don't consider myself squeamish and I used to eat lunch while me and an old boss were checking out the latest additions to Rotten.com's gallery. But I swear to god everytime I see the footage of the planes hitting the towers I get this weird feeling in the pit of my stomach. I've never had that happen before where some image has an adverse reaction on me and I cant even begin to explain it.
And I said it last year and I'll say it again this year... I'm still really pissed off about those palistineans dancing in the streets with joy while downtown Manhattan was busy getting covered in 2 inches of soot.
BOSTON SUCKS!
One year has passed since the United States faced the attacks that will be associated with this date, 11 September, for a great many years to come.
It would seem appropriate at this time to look back to see how America has changed, specifically in its relationship with other countries.
Why do religious extremists justify attacking America? What is it that makes citizens of foreign countries hate America? And is America doing anything to counteract this problem?
There is a real tension between people who feel it's important to comemorate the day, and people who feel that it serves no purpose.
So what is the point of remembering? An event like the terrorist attacks rips back the surface, and exposes the stuff going on underneath. Some of that stuff is very ugly, and some is very good. So we commemorate and remember to get that glimpse under the surface again.
Looking under the surface is supposed to push us forward, to give us some direction. For me that means listening to my two Muslim collegues, with whom I rarely talk about politics, about how their lives at home have changed. And telling them about how my life, as a jew, has changed. And telling them about the prejudice my father faced when he was growing up Jewish in America in the 30's and 40's, to let them know that things can change here, over time.
What I am proud of about America is that it is a place where a jew and a muslim can work together, a nd connect over living in a majority culture that is not ours.
What makes me ashamed about America is that there still are, and will always be, people who will blindly hate us.
So by commemorating, I hope to keep these two opposed visions in my mind, to remind me to push, in my own small way, to the correct one.
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
If the outer shell of the Pentagon was completed.
I know they set an ambitious date to have the outer corridor fixed by today. Did they make it?
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
I believe all the major networks are running special programming and are commercial free for the entire day today. I have a a schedule of the major US TV networks up at the WorldTradeAftermath.com website.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
but I've had a rush of emotions daily ever since September 11th of last year, the images of the planes crashing into the towers, the billowing smoke of the pentagon, and the crater left in Pennsylvania have had a very lasting impression on me.
One thing that I don't like which has come out of this is how President Bush is pushing his agenda on regime change in Iraq. He has not stepped forward with any kind of reassurance which will lead me to believe that a regime change should be possible. Is President Bush not worried about "blowback", which is what happened when we helped the mujahadeen in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Russian army. I can easily see some major "blowback" happening to the United States in the coming future if we are not careful and think ahead.
Never Forget.
Life
Don't forget this when you go out and cry, "My civil rights are diminished...."
Life means, we have a right to be secure. It's the job of our govt. to enforce this right.
Liberty is second to life but above all others. What kind of liberty does a dead-man enjoy?
Happiness is third. I can't be that happy if I have to worry about terrorism killing a loved one and I'm not free (liberated).
All the other Civil Rights pale in comparison Life, liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. They are merely derived from these three. They're hardly even honorable mentions compared to these three, but I'll mention some of them, (Privacy, Speech, Association, Expression, Religion).
That's what I'm thinking about and I'm also reflecting on this question.
What am I willing to die for?
Not much as I'm a coward (though not anonymous).
I think, however, I'm willing to die for my family. Hopefully, I'll never have the chance to prove this.
With that said, I'm in awe at our armed servicemen. I find in inconceivable that they are willing to die for me. They deserve my greatest respect.
I was at work, wondering when my boss would get to the punchline.. "A plane crashed into the WTC.." "And??"
All of this memorial stuff is getting very overdone though...
Where were you on Jan 26, 2001? Do you remember any news that happened that day at all?
On that date, an earthquake hit India, leaving 13,000 people dead.
thirteen thousand. More than four times the amount killed in the World Trade Center. Think about that for a minute. How much coverage of it did you see on CNN? Maybe a day?
We've been hearing about this same story (Even giving it a catchy title) for an entire year now. How about a sense of perspective, folks?
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
It may have escaped your notice, but we're at war.
In such circumstances, the Constitution gets suspended so it can't be used against us.
As soon as we've established freedom in the Arab world, we'll go back to where we were.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
In memory of Garo Voskerijian who gave me some advice that will carry me for the rest of my life.
May you rest in peace and may God be with Naida, Shont, Isabelle and Aleene.
Peace is the answer...
100% Insightful
Lets not forget that the USA used to be a major sponsor of terror attacks in the UK via NORAID.
The history of the United States is punctuated by times when its people were underestimated:
1. The American Revolution - England underestimates the ability of a rag-tag militia made up mostly of civilians to free the peoples of the colonies.
2. WWII - Japan delivers what they thought would be a cripling blow (the bombing of Pearl Harbor), underestimating America's ability to recover and fight back.
3. Desert Storm - Iraq underestimates America's ability to mobilize a world force to take back Kuwait.
4. September 11, 2001 - Terrorists turn four commercial airliners into weapons, killing thousands. America unites and fights back.
I think America is underestimated because outsiders view freedom of religion, freedom of speech, tolerance of different opinions, and open debate as a sign of disunity. Americans agree to disagree, and are passionate about defending the freedoms that allow such diversity.
====================
Left the house this morning
Bells ringing filled the air
Wearin' the cross of my calling
On wheels of fire I come rollin' down here
Can't see nothin' in front of me
Can't see nothin' coming up behind
I make my way through this darkness
I can't feel nothing but this chain that binds me
Lost track of how far I've gone
How far I've gone, how high I've climbed
On my back's a sixty pound stone
On my shoulder a half mile of line
There's spirits above and behind me
Faces gone black, eyes burnin' bright
May their precious blood bind me
Lord, as I stand before your fiery light
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.
--Gandalf
This is a joke, right? If not, it is only an attitude that can survive when you are cloistered in a militarily powerful country with a strong police force. Guess what a military and police are? The threat of implied violence!
before they nuke us. Saddam own mistress believes they are working on nuclear weapons. What would have happened if we had just let Hitler sit back and develop an arsenal of mass destruction?
Capitalism: unequal distribution of wealth
Socialism: equal distribution of poverty
yeah, its nice to see /. editors endorsing karma whoring so blatantly isn't it.
Sunday, I was watching the history channel and saw a special on 9/11 One year later. It gave details to how all the events played out. Things that happened months later, And while I truly appreciate them only showing the buildings on fire once, It still brought chills over my body, and almost tears to my eyes, as SO many people became only memories on that day. I remember sitting in my office (computer helpdesk for law firm) and having one of our attorney's from the NY office on the phone with me and she said "did you hear, a plane just hit one of the trade towers". At that point, I didn't honestly believe it. I was in more of a bit of shock then anything else. So as the true geek in me, I message my boss and apparently inform him of it for the first time as well, at the same time open up a web browser to the NYtimes and there it was a picture of the burning building. It still didn't look real as if it was something in a movie. This was about ten minutes after the first plane hit. Our team (helpdesk) was not sure what to do/think- Accident, terrorism/ real/fake ( although we all knew it was real, just hard to believe) shortly after the second plane hit, we were all watching TV at this time ( computer connections to the websites were well Slow) we all saw the second plane, and (hard to type) [ devastation ]. We then shortly heard there after about the Pentigon and it was really hitting close to home as the office is about 3 to 4 miles from it. There was an office staff meeting, and it was still not apparent as to just HOW serious this was. There was a Muslim guy in there, and jokingly said "I promise, I have nothing to do with it" America under attack. Finally the towers collapsed, and I have seen that video so many times, I honestly wish to NEVER see it again, it is awful to believe and imagine that SO Many good people died on that day. My thoughts and prayers out to the not just the victims, or their families and friends, but to the entire world, because on that day as the entire world was affected, Not just the USA. What was the point of this post, It started because of the drive with your lights on, on 9/11 thread. Maybe I just want to remember all those that lost their lives on that day, and to those that lost loved ones on that day. No comments or words will ever bring that loved one back, but you can always cherish their memories and remember the good times with them.
www.oobersworld.com - For those that ride.
Did anyone see Jim McKay's "They don't want revenge, they wanna be loved" speech during Monday Night Football? Peter Jennings must have written this for him. I for one want revenge. It's the responsibility of the government to protect and distribute justice. They should pay with their lives and all who chanted in support of them should pay with them. They stand united, so should we. ABC TV would have us believe that we should "understand" them better to come to reason. They hate us, they attacked us, they should die. >
I've heard that slander.
Another fact-free moron heard from.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Have you posted your story on wherewereyou.org?
I discovered the site about a month and a half ago, and the posts are mostly interesting glimpses of other people's lives as feces met fan blades on America's Bad Day. I revisit the site every few days to read the newest posts, and found that posting my own account of where I was and what I did and felt, was oddly therapeutic.
~Philly
What a better way to show our Americanism than by removing one of the things that distinguishes America: competitive commercial advertising
OSDN should be shoving ads in our faces otherwise they're just contributing to a breakdown of American values.
I was working in Washington at a U.S. Mint IT office near the Capitol when the towers were attacked. I didn't find out until the story on Slashdot appeared, and yours was the only site I could get to reliably. The phones were down, and this site was my only connection to what was going on. My superiors were totally clueless--many left without telling us we could go too, even.
So thanks for posting the story. You really served me well that day (and many since).
First, thank you very much to Slashdot for being one of the few news sources last year that had the bandwidth to be useful during a crisis.
Second, I wrote a rant earlier today that I think everyone should think about very carefully (though the slashdot crowd is less guilty than most):
Third. Speaking of missing the point. Rather than trying to understand WHY people find it necessary to blow up our shit, the American people and their politicians are having a deplorable reaction. I won't repeat the lists of freedoms taken away, or the liberty/safety quotes. You all know the story by now.
Fourth, if you want to make a difference, let your representatives in government know that your freedom is more important to you than anything else. Remember, us mp3 "pirates" could be considered terrorists before too long. I'm serious.
Fifth, I'm not asking you to give up your SUV. But support alternatives to petroleum. Mention that to your representative. Petroleum products send a lot of money to people I'm really not interested in -- if we want to buy stuff from them it doesn't bother me... but with that money goes Western culture and ideals. That's why they want to blow up our shit. If someone told me I couldn't drink or date, I might start blowing up their shit. That doesn't make it right, but it's better to think of things in terms of cause and effect rather than effect and reaction.
-brian
If you were in China, and you were speaking against the Chinese government, you'd be dead right now. Count your blessings. Cherish your rights.
It shows that the corps that NEED ads to survive are the same corps that were hit, and the same corps which need US Gov. backing are the 'problem' that /bin/laden was(or is) bitching about.
Every time I see those photos of the WTC burning and collapsing, I keep thinking that _someone_ out there ought to use those pics for a full-3d modelling of the event.
Consider that there are probably thousands of photos of the event, taken practically every second from angles all around the city. It'd probably be a fascinating (but massive) exercise to take those photographs, maybe some video footage, and derive a three-dimensional, rotateable model from their aggregate. Users could play it at variable speeds, freeze particular moments, circle around the frozen smoke plumes, maybe even zoom in if the data was good enough-- sort of a 747-sized "bullet time."
Okay, okay, it was tragic, horrible, we're a different nation now, we must never forget, etc., etc., but I'd love to see something like this.
Brian Siano (brian@briansiano.com)
As a Turkish citizen, the country which runs the peace force at Afghanistan now and the only true muslim (as I am not) ally doesn't play games with USA, I have saw those in 1 year, I was called those:
a) Towelhead
b) Go back to your cave, what you do on our (site,chat etc)
c) Nuke the mideast
d) You stink
Also protecting my rights and trying to tell the truth, I got banned in favour of americans.
any many more. As I don't consider myself muslim, and tell about my habits like beer drinking, bars etc... I really started to wonder what a "real" muslim would feel.
Bin Laden's plot was exactly that. To make people discriminated, to start a civilization war...
He... Susceeded...
RIP to 3000 people who died in WTC. RIP to millions of them if this evil plan works good (!). Don't forget, the suckers who crashed planes into WTC&Pentagon were uneducated ones, they were brainwashed to ignore the most powerful insict even, life. Why act like them?
My eyes are watering as I type this - it's coming back a little too clearly. I'll never forget that day, though, when I learned exactly how big our community is, and how close it can be.
God bless all of you today. Hug someone today and tell them that you love them. Be with family. Live to post another day.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
"We are all New Yorkers", was something I saw someone say after 9/11. While I was born in, raised near, and worked in NYC for several years, I moved away almost a decade ago. Nevertheless, those images will forever be blazoned into my memory -- and, no doubt, the memories of most everyone else, even those who'd never set foot on NY[C] soil. While I agree with what appears to be the gen'l consensus that this not be turned into a national holiday, it's clear it's because people want to remember the day -- like Pearl Harbor day -- but not, for lack of better words, pay tribute to it. All of us will always remember it, and I know, for me, 9/11 will always be a day of reflection and introspection.
God bless, all...
There are a lot of events going on in New York City through Sunday to commemorate the attacks on 9/11. I have posted a schedule
on the WorldTradeAftermath.com site.
Best wishes to you and yours, today and throughout the week.
Regards,
John
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Here's a quote from the transcript of the Larry King show on CNN:
KING: Do you agree, though, with the all-day coverage? Every network seems to be doing...
CRONKITE: No, I think we're going to get very weary, as tragic as are the stories, as heartrending as are the stories, as tear- jerking as are the stories, I think we're going to get very tired of hearing them over and over again over a period of two or three days or more. I think it's going to be overdone.
I agree with Walter...
I don't take our freemdoms lightly, but it appears you take the death of 3000 other people very light..
I would have to say that you are an extremely selfish person.. I can guarantee that if someone you truly cared about had been in that building you wouldn't have said:
"The first thought that popped into my head was not about the horror of the event or even those who dies but rather a disturbed feeling that this is the start of a long erosion of everyone's rights."
sorry about that
here Is New York.org
August 8, (1995) Windows 95 Release Date
I remember you posting this LAST YEAR! You, sir, have a very wierd SK Death Fetish.
geeks are cats who dig a certain kind of cool
Is the rest of the world blind to Iraq!.
Hello.... Iraq has enough chemicals to wipe the entire world out 3 times over.
Why again do only the Brits and the Americans stand up and try and do something about stopping the Iraq madman dictator from setting off events which will wipe all of us out.
If we dont stop him.. we get blamed... "should have killed him last time"
If we do step in - we get blamed.
The rest of the world are just sissies. Back up your words you cowards, else next time they will be bombing YOU.
Hats off to the Yankies and the Brits and a big boohoo to those who want to sit by the side - just like some did during the second world war. whilst innocent Jews were being slaughted
For what it's worth, I posted the following at work this morning:
No, there's no American flag in my cubicle.
It's not that I don't share your grief, your pain,
even your lasting anger on this anniversary--I do.
It's not that I don't love my country or appreciate
all she offers--I do.
There are few other places
in all the world
I feel I could enjoy living.
But I've never felt that the best response to killing,
however brutal and undeserved,
is more killing,
and I'm still naive enough to believe
that God will show us another way,
if only we stop hating long enough to listen,
so I choose to express my dissent by not waiving the flag.
And in a country where I've watched some of the things
for which I love her most
eroded,
where it's accepted as a given that security and freedom
are unavoidably opposed,
where 69% of Americans believe the Freedom of Information Act
should be sacrificed to protect our government,
where 48%, almost a majority, believe the First Amendment
goes too far in the freedoms it grants,
and where those who have expressed unpopular opinions
over the last year
have been met with anger, fear, and hatred,
"America, love it or leave it,"
I choose not to pledge an allegiance I no longer feel.
How can we be one nation, indivisible,
when those of us who disagree are asked to depart?
How can there be liberty and justice for all
when American citizens, let alone foreign nationals,
are held in military custody without trial, jury, or even counsel?
I do love it; I won't leave it;
but the sense of solidarity most Americans gained
on that dreadful day a year ago
still escapes me,
and so I choose not to overtly participate in the commemoration,
not out of any disrespect for those who died
or those who survived--
I grieve for them all more deeply than I can say--
but out of respect
for what I think we could become
if only we tried a little harder
or looked a little deeper.
Shawn Menninga
September 11, 2002
SMQ 90AE4B2BC4F6BEAF7340F0B40BA2DEF7340F6BC2D0392
Your a troll at least post a to back up your argument
like this one or this one that knock you down
Lets see, the US has a mild terrorist? attach, some buildings collapsed because they where build on the cheap. and forget about the pentigon i might be a ligitimate millarty target.
So the US kicked ten-tones out of shit agains a muslim country... the US has a worse track record than anyone else.
I'm not shaving today, to remember the muslims that got killed
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Go to your library and read about IRA terrorist attacks on British soil and the subsequent responses from the super power. And that's only the first example that comes to mind.
It was an excellent call to present the log of Sept. 11, 2001 today so readers could recall not only what happened but how they came to know what was happening that day. But this would be a good time for Slashdot to re-think its policy on leaving the year off posts in its archive. As time goes by, the years blur together, and a 9/11/01 post becomes indistinguishable from 9/11/99 or 9/11/02.
I could make all kinds of observations about how the relative merits of rhetoric of freedom vs one of democracy (i.e., freedom is fine and dandy but it is a notoriously slippery and sometimes regressive concept, that's why democracy is at the heart of my personal rhetoric about how things should be).
I could make comments about how hard it is to be someone who is critical of the government yet support the defense of the country (really the defense of the American people, I don't care a whit for "the national interest") and trying to
balance that against the death of innocent bystanders in sometimes necesary military action.
All of those themes and many more could fill up
many topics on Slashdot or elsewhere but the
only thing I feel I want to talk about is my own
sense of loss: I had dinner at Windows on The World during spring break my freshman year of college; I and my sister were actually in the WTC
on the day of the '93 bombing; I worked in the financial district in NYC for 5 years; I interviewed for a job in the WTC. Though I didn't know anyone that was killed, those
people seem very real to me, my neighbors, my co-workers... Part of my tangible, physical world and the fragile precious humanity therein was smashed out of existence on that Tuesday and even after a year I am not sure
I understand the depth of its effect on me.
Let's lift a glass to the blessings of healing and of life.
It is by coff... er, will, alone I set my mind in motion...
I won't ask that you put aside your political differences in this time of national mourning. I'm not.
I won't ask that you give up your rights quietly because 9/11 shows that those rights will be our downfall if we continue to have them. I won't and I don't buy that.
I won't ask that you give up fighting because 9/11 shows that nothing can be solved by war, and that only peace will succeed in making the world a safer place. Far better and more righteous people than I have tried to end war and have failed miserably.
I won't ask you to rise up against the US government for its brutality and evil around the world that caused us to be attacked. Every other nation is just as evil, and has just as horrifying skeletons in their closet. America is just happening now. No amount of wrong done excuses what the hijackers, and those who helped plan and fund the hijacking did.
I won't ask you to condemn or absolve Muslims as a group for the actions and beliefs of some that called themselves Muslim.
I won't try to convince you that the lives of those murdered were in any way more or less important than the lives of Israelis killed in suicide bombings, the lives of Palestinians killed by Israeli solders and civillians, the lives of Vietnamese women and children murdered by American soldiers at the Mi Lai Massacre, those that died when nuclear weapons were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, those that died at the Battle of Pearl Harbor, or any other life lost. They aren't. A life is a life, whomever's it is.
All I ask is that you remember the dead. In the end, that's the best any of us can hope for after we die in this world. No amount of war or peace will bring them back to life. Whatever existence is or isn't waiting after life ends, memory is all that is left of the person in this world. Remember the dead, and be glad you are alive, because it could have been you on those planes, in the World Trade Towers, or the Pentagon. Remember the families and friends and their loss, because it could have been your friend, or brother, or sister, or mother, or father who died that day. Remember their loss and throw a party, and hang out, get drunk, play touch football, talk until the wee hours, play video games, watch movies, argue, or whatever you enjoy doing with them, because most of us will die before we're tired of this life.
In the end, what you do and what you believe doesn't matter to me, and I expect you feel the same about me. Just remember for those people, that went out of this life in a way few of us would choose to, and don't forget that we're all lucky to be alive.
That's it, I guess...
I have sincere feelings for the victims and victims' families, but I can't stop thinking about how dumb is US Government in Foreign Politics. I wonder if G.W. Bush ask yourself "why are we suffering this?" or "what are our mistakes anyway?"
...
Sincerelly, extremes acts like these make us very sensitive and feared. That's normal. But I think it's time to think what we can do to stop things like that to happen.
Massacrate Afghanistan? This won't work...
Bombing Iraq? This won't work...
Discriminate people of "third world"? This won't work...
Don't help palestinians in your rights to a land? This won't work...
And all that is happening at this moment. Why so many people hate U.S.? Guys, this is not envy... This is not because north-americans have more money... This is not because U.S. call yourself "Land of Freedom"... This is not without reason... Think about it! Think about what your gorvernment is doing right now about foreign politics and maybe you can realize the hate this government is seeding all over the world. This is a crime against all north-americans! This is a crime against the free world!
So many legal elected gorvenments fall down because CIA action in third world...
So many people just die starving because U.S. commercial politics...
So many countries are humiliated because agressive actions of U.S.
Once again: I have sincere feelings for the victims... But it's time to change the U.S. mind for things like 9/11 doesn't happen in the future. U.S. government have this debt with your citizens.
There are several things that this anniversary reminds me what I hate about things here in the US.
1. Media pandering and dirty laundry abounds. Don't try to tell me how to feel about what is going on. I can do that for myself and it is insulting when you do.
2. The way American treats other countries and people because we are "always right." Those "right" actions being very wrong and American civilians dying for that. How about we actually try to be right. I think it can come down to a quality model. Doing it right up front will save untold expenses at the end. Instead we pay those untold expenses for what was done wrong in the past.
3. Future attacks. I almost expected to hear about something horrible when I woke up this morning. I fear more lives will be lost here on our soil because those who "represent" us are willing to kill regular people on their soil. We fight fire with fire and it makes more fire. On the other hand, it is hard to attack someone that cares about you. Why not invest in their people. Show them that we care by being there to back up our investment. So many times we help people and leave just so they can be punished for getting US aid. This goes back to actually "being right" and not just saying we are.
4. Loss of rights. I am not going to get Franklin's quote correct but those who are willing to give up freedom for security deserve niether. It sucks when we get attacked, but that does not mean that those responsible for the hatred towards us should get to call all the shots. I know they mean well, but until they get some follow through and start truly caring past our own borders, other countries will, understandably, dislike us.
I hope this will never happen again. It is nonsensicle for those that have died to have died. But I don't see how what we are doing now will prevent it. We are not an impenitrable box, we are a land of immigration of all sorts. That kind of land cannot be protected from subversives. You have to quash the reason for subversive activity to protect it.
This is a joke, right? If not, it is only an attitude that can survive when you are cloistered in a militarily powerful country with a strong police force. Guess what a military and police are? The threat of implied violence
The purpose of them is to put on a show of force so that those who would commit these acts know that we have the power and are willing to use it. Unfortionatly there are those that would beleive that the threat is not a real one and that there would be no retaliation. They are of course proven wrong.
If you're reading this, chances are you're busy hacking away on your *nix workstation. I ask you to take a brief moment and step away from the cyber world, look outside and remember the tragedies that took place only one year ago. Never before in my lifetime have I witnessed an event that affected the entire planet in the way that 9-11 has. It doesn't matter what country you reside in or what your nationality is, most will remember the precise moment they first were made aware of what happened that tragic day. Our day to day struggles seem so small all of a sudden as we realize just how lucky we are to be living a life the way we choose to. History has shown just how precious freedom is and it is something we should never take for granted. No doubt life after 9-11 has changed but at the same time we should not let those few soulless beings who try to take our freedom away from us and then have the audacity to justify their horrific actions in the name of their own warped sense of religion, change the way we choose to lead our lives. In the grand scheme of things, our existence is a mere blip on the radar screen of the reality we live in, be sure that blip counts for something.
Peace
Eddy.WriteLinux.Com
He didn't become a pot smoking (but not inhaling), draft dodging rapist who organized pro-communist teach-ins from the safety of Oxford.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
On this day of rememberance, i offer my brothers and sisters in America my prayers and my sympathy, and only wish i could do more. I just wanted you all to know that you are not alone on the aniversary of a very dark day. All of London, at 1:46 GMT, united in silence to remember the lives lost. I can only pray that one day no person should have to live in fear of terrorist attacks, and that the memories of one year ago can strengthen the bonds of our nations. I love you all
"Ask a stupid person, get a stupid answer"
I thought 9/11/01 was going to be a typical day for me at the time. I was a recent college graduate with a CS degree and no job. Employers were turning me down because the jobs I was applying for require either experience or additional knowledge beyond a college degree (i.e. certification).
/., I learned that the receptionist wasn't making up stuff about the WTC and Pentagon. It was right around this time that Cleveland mayor Michael White announced a press conference, announcing what the City of Cleveland would be doing to keep its citizens safe (some of you may recall that United Flight 93 was in Cleveland airspace and turned around in the Cleveland area before crashing in PA). I knew that I wouldn't be able to continue my job search until this whole mess straightens itself out. While driving home, I had to make a couple more stops. One of which was to the Mentor Chamber of Commerce office. After leaving the Chamber office, I walked past another office where the receptionist had a TV going with a broadcast of CNN. I decided to stop in and watched the disaster for about 30 minutes before departing for home. Only thing I could think of was that with airplanes grounded, they better be airborne very soon, because I had a business trip to go on later in the month.
I started out the morning, leaving my house right around the time the first plane hit the WTC. When I arrived at one company that I was going to interview with that day, I learned from the receptionist that the WTC was hit. I didn't believe her at first. After wrapping up the interview (I didn't get the job because they were looking for a VBasic programmer, and I had little knowledge of VB), I asked for directions to the nearest public library. I then drove over there, tried to get into every major news site, and could only get into Slasdot. After viewing the headlines on
In the back of my mind, I was wondering if the FAA would take George Carlin a little more seriously. On one of his comedy specials, Carlin did a routine on airport security, and he specifically mentioned passengers being allowed to take knives on board a plane. Anyone hear if the FAA also banned glass bottles and knitting needles as well?
Why is it when all the other leaders are out in force Dick Cheney is always hiding in a bunker somewhere? Remember shortly after S11 he was hiding for months, why??
I don't believe pbs is running any commercials either ;)
You would rather show them weakness?
I would rather show them strength, by sticking together, moving on with our lives, REMEMBERING SILENTLY, but moving on. Let us show the perpetrators of this act as well as those that want to do more than that to us that we are strong, and that we will not be cowed by such events. Let us show them that we do not have any intention of saying "Aw, it's alright. Let's be friends." The crime must be paid in full. Not forgotten.
By not punishing those who masterminded the crime, would you not be helping to FORGET that they did it? Would yo not begin to forget that it ever happened? Let us NOT forget, and let us punish them for their actions.
Insightful? Perhaps to yet another teenager...
Unless you're a sociopath with an obsession for civil rights(a highly unlikely combination at best), you are completely full of shit. The idea that the first thought that popped into your head was something not related to fire and death is completely incredulous.
I could be argued that as today is Sept 11 that it is not one year after Sept 11.
Wake up before it's too late.
NYTimes -(among others, I'm sure) http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/10/national/10PLOT. html registration required - posted a pretty lengthy summary of all the details the intelligence community managed to piece together AFTER the attack about events leading up to the attack. Meanwhile, some say (www.debka.com) the FBI is at a loss to figure out how the Al-Qaeda operatives communicate, although they're sure it's via some sort of "secret" email.
Any ideas how they're communicating?
That wasn't an explanation. That was an knee-jerk accusation masquerading as wisdom.
Go back to your Chmosky.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Why exactly have OSDN turned off banner ads? What does it achieve? To me it just seems like OSDN a good way for companies to point out to everyone how caring and symapathetic they are. I.e., not running ads is just a form of self-advertising.
ten thousand holes in blackburn lancashire...
You shouldn't have started something that you couldn't finish (if you don't like getting randomly blown up). The US is a Saudi *ally*. We were attacked by people we've helped over and over through the years. You've never done a damn thing for the Irish but rape and pillage and it didn't stop in the early 20th century, but continues today. There's no comparison.
You're my Idol, no doubt you mentally induced me in doing this for you :-)
BTW, has somebody a link to the bullshit JonKatz posted sometime after the 11 sept ?
I mean the one in which he said he fell on his knees (probably to blow some fireman, unlike what he mourns about) ?
Definitely a typical sample of his opportunism.
I'm looking at the whole thing a bit differently:
1 year ago, a group of people showed the whole world, that nothing is impossible...
that this will generate from the oil deposits that we'll get our hands on.
George Dubuya has done a great jorb, the defence industry has been saved, along with the ecconomy, the oil industry is about to get one-hell-of-a shot in the arm from taking over Afganistan and Iraq esuring that we all get to go about our god-given American way of life.
Now if we could only produce the evidence that Alkieda (sp?) or whoever was responsible for the WTC thingie, AS WAS PROMISED, i'll sleep a bit better at nite.
Wow. I miss a bunch of neanderthals armed with misinformation flaming the shit out of eachother over israel, clinton, W, etc.
Thursday, December 6, 1917
d e. html
http://www.region.halifax.ns.ca/community/explo
the biggest man-made explosion before the nuclear age
Over 1,900 people were killed immediately; within a year the figure had climbed well over 2,000. Around 9,000 more were injured, many permanently; 325 acres, almost all of north-end Halifax, were destroyed.
To your first paragraph: there's a lot of "Hate America First" liberal academics doing just what you claim to be afraid of doing.
To your second paragrsph: America may have made mistakes, but America has done more to improve the world than any other country in history. Bar none. What's actually happening is that foreign kleptocracies pump out anti-Amrican propaganda to keep their masses distracted. Apparently, more suggestible Americans are also susceptible.
To your third paragraph: I'm well-informed.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
most appropriate wesley wills song :D
And copy it under every other post like that.
Last time the "sleeping giant" was wakened was WWII, and we came out and did the Right Thing, during and shortly after. Non-punitive postwar policies in both Europe and the Far East were some of our finest moments.
After the Cold War, the US sort of began dozing off, again. We still had our fingers in other pies, but the level of engagement was lowering. At times it looked like the world was going to do quite happily without *any* superpowers, eventually.
On 9/11, I knew that the sleeping giant was awakened, again. But this time I had an ugly feeling that the sleeper was going to be *very* grumpy, and not so 'polite' as last time. This seems to be happening, unfortunately. Part of the Al Qaida purpose was to drive a wedge between the West and the Moslem world. Especially with the recent Iraq noise, we seem to be playing into their hands, giving them greater success by driving a wedge between the US and the rest of the world, not just the Moslems.
IMHO there is a key distinction to be made here about fundamentalist Moslem terrorists: They don't believe in modern society. They share beliefs with a Moslem subset that would like to see the world taken back to the year AD 700, when the Prophet lived. Think Afghanistan during Taliban rule, except that during the times of the Prophet, society was much more enlightened with respect to women. Generally in a war, you have two societies fighting for dominance, with the implicit assumption that one society will force its will on the other, but that both will remain essentially intact, one changed. The current War on Terror is different, because Al Qaida's objective is not to change our society but to eliminate it. They currently participate in modern society, in order to remove it in favor of their Utopian vision of the times of the Prophet. (Though again it's a vision that may not truly square with the reality back then.)
It's noteworthy that as naughty as he may be, Saddam Hussain heads a nation, and it acts like a nation. Perhaps a naughty nation, but still a nation. That's fundamentally different from Al Qaida. I guess they'd really like to destroy the society and nation of Israel, and that's not good, but that's a far cry from rejection/destruction of modern society.
IMHO the greatest problem facing the world today is overpopulation and its attendant resource/environmental effects. The greatest factor in dropping the birthrate around the world is the education and empowerment of women. Moslem fundamentalism is a grave danger to the entire world, precisely in its disempowerment of women. The US is not blameless here, with its blind-spot on "reproductive issues" in foreign policy, but at least we don't advocate burkasn.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
What can America do? Its an extreme religious problem. They are indocrinated to hate our freedom, our capitalism, and our way of life. All we can do is fight them. We cannot do anything to change their attitude. Should we give up our way of life to be more like them? I am afraid some people would say yes.
We could force women to cover their faces, have a government enforced religion (Muslim)? We can't bow to their demands... We must eliminate these extremists.
[FromTheMorning]
I do believe if he was still around today, this is what he would say. The first time that I read it (one year ago), it brought a tear to the eye.
There was an 18 month average wait to get in, but he joined within two months (senator dad had someone pull strings?). He went AWOL too.
The only pols I know of who served in 'Nam were Gore, Harkin, and Kerry.
Anyone else feel that it is wrong for the media to cover this story so in depth, and ultimately make money on those that died and their families. I have decided not to watch any coverage. I remember very well what happened.
I've been watching less and less television as they day approaches, but have caught some of the coverage despite that. Partly because I know someone who died, and partly because I am sick to death of our wallowing in self pity. Some of the coverage has been quite tasteful (though distasteful to me personally simply because the quantity of coverage is too much), while other coverage (Fox, for example) has been positively disgusting. Then there was the "let's relive the moment" crap (I don't recall the channel, as I switched rather quickly), a blow by blow retelling of events, as if going through the trauma wasn't bad enough the first time.
PBS (Frontline, McNeal-Lehrer, etc.) in contrast has been very tasteful (though it is all still too goddamn much, which makes even the most tasteful coverage distasteful. A week lead in for crying out loud!?! Give me a f*cking break).
That having been said, I think it should be pointed out that over 50,000 people have died in car accidents in the United States in the last year. The damage done by the subhuman Al Q'aida vermin, in terms of human losses, was relatively modest (though no less tragic for that). Most of the impact was architectural (a few missing buildings) and pyschological (the horror). The latter we have in no small part the media to thank for (the events were bad enough, but that didn't seem to slow them down any in hyping even that, something they haven't stopped doing over the last year), which I think is one of the most despicable aspects, outside of the despicable act itself, to this whole affair.
Then there is Ashcroft's and the FBI's blatent power grab in the wake of the tragedy, which was almost inhuman (subhuman? certainly inhumane) in its cynical manipulation of the events.
So while the coverage is annoying, the lack of perspective (3k dead v. 50k dead on our highways, etc.) and its resulting fear (you're not afraid of your car, are you?), the ongoing media hype, the unprecedented power grab by the executive branch of the federal government and resultant shredding of most of our constitution are far more disgusting, and the consiquences of that particular form of collective stupidity is something we are likely to live with for a generation or more.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I was underway on the ballistic missile submarine USS LOUISIANA (SSBN 743)(G) when the terrorist attacks on the USA occurred.
As you probably guessed, we can't get TV underwater. We can, however, receive radio broadcasts. Our radiomen were actually able to tune in to WFAN-AM radio from NYC. They piped the broadcast into the crew's mess (where we eat).
We didn't get any visual feedback of the attacks until about a month later when we finally received some mail. Thoughtfully, someone sent a VHS tape of a KNBC broadcast from September 11, 2001. Knowing what had already happened made it very difficult to finally absorb the visual aspect of the terrorist attacks.
I don't keep a journal or diary, but I did make a record of the events of that attack. You can check it out here:
A Submariner's 9/11
This was September 11th, from my point of view.
My neighbor was a flight attendent on flight 93 that day. She was the sweetest lady. When I was a kid, she flew the hawaii route, and every week when she'd come home she'd bring me bags and bags of nuts.
Although she never had any kids of her own, we, the neighborhood kids were hers.
I'll miss her...
1+2+1+1 || 1+2+2+1
It is the right thing to do, though. Over the past few days, on TV and elsewhere, I have seen many "tributes" to the people who died on that day. TV shows commemorating the heroism of the New York emergency personell, the heroism of the people on the flight that did not crash into a building, etc. I even "half watched" a cople of these, mostly because I was too lazy to quit coding long enough to find a remote to change the channel. On every single one of these specials, I saw something that made me lose all respect for what they were trying to do: Commercials. If you think about it for a moment, TV stations are still charging for that advertising, and since they know that a sentimental American public will be watching those advertisements, I would imagine that they are charging a boatload more for that airtime. At that point, to me at least, these specials become less about "honoring the dead" and "remembering the tragedy" than they are about shameless and blatant corporate profiteering off of a tragedy. This simple action has placed Slashdot and OSDN a cut above the rest in my eyes, and I salute their action. /-Dan
then your going to get stung
My eyes have yet to see anyone celebrating the death of Americans in the streets. I doubt your eyes have either. The media lense is not your eye, nor should you trust it to be. I reiterate, and quote you again - "Wake up before it's too late."
I still feel the same emotions, albeit quite a bit lessened. Not anger, not rage, not fear, not terror. Just sadness for the people who died. That is all. A year ago, I was openly crying in front of a TV in the office lobby. This morning, my wife and I just watched the ceremonies, and again just feel plain sad for the families. That's it. Still no anger, no fear, just sadness.
And the people who want to drive me into some kind of jingoist frenzy can forget it. The list of names included a "Hussein", several "Changs" and a number of "Garcias". The only thing that united them was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And woe be to the politicians who wage revenge in my name, because I don't want revenge. I want peace.
It's time to stop allowing the Iraqi people to starve and die from malnutrition and treatable disease, simply because we don't like their dictator. I don't remember reading many sagas of human rights violations in Iraq prior to the Gulf War. But in any case, whomever is right, whomever is wrong, we need to get those innocent people some food and medicine, instead of keeping it from them.
If we want to punish Saddam for whatever reason, send in the snipers and get it over with. All we are doing now is starving, and by inaction murdering, the Iraqi people. I'm sure Saddam has food, wine, and medicine, regardless of what the US does. In any case waging another war in the area in the name of "revenge" for Sep-11 is a farce. The Taliban was a truly evil regime, stoning women to death for not wearing the correct clothing, or for being raped. Where are the tales of Iraqi atrocities, other than the invasion of Kuwait?
Ah, yes, the Kurds. Indeed, Saddam is a genocidal terrorist. So why isn't the rest of the world gearing up to be alongside the US? No answers.
And Palestinians are a terrorized people, just as much as the Israeli people are terrorized. That's just a bad, bad situation. The only solution is a permanent, enforced Palestinian state. Just give them the West Bank and/or Gaza Strip and be DONE with it. Neither side is right, no matter what either side will tell you.
Damn, I started ranting. Ridiculous thing to do, when what we should be doing is simply remembering the lives that were lost on Sep-11 and get on with ours.
But one final word: the embargo on Iraq is being carried out in our names, by our power. Thus each and every one of us is responsible for the deaths of thousands of children. Saying, "but I'm just a citizen" is no excuse.
Elections are in November. Find candidates who are against the embargo and elect them. If everyone convinced 2 people who didn't vote last term, and convince them to vote this term, the entire face of politics would be changed over night.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Very interesting and informative information here: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/
11S2002:29th Aniversary from Pinochet's coup d'etat (with support from EEUU) ... This and more events are the answer to Harrison Ford's question (why?).
11S2001:Was a day where the world told USA "Hey, you are not the center of the universe, stop bullying us".
First accept Tokyo's protocol, International War laws, sign threats, don't start wars and then we can speak, until then, I won't be sad for 11S
------- The last Sig. got fired.
In case you missed it last year, Google has re-posted 9/11-related search data such as the top gaining searches during the week of 9-13-2001.
The shareholder is always right.
I wrote a comment to this, but to save space on this server I will only post a link to it. I don't agree with the above poster. But I will let the details of this be presented by my diary entry. Comments welcome here or there.
Bully or Teacher
Kalen D'arrie
And, if you live in the U.S., get your government to stop secretly contributing to the causes of war: What should be the Response to Violence?
today a film has been released over here, september 11. it has been made by 11 major film directors across the world. The aim was to enlarge thinking around 9/11, for example, how an Iranian school teacher tried to explain it to children, or other september 11 events, such as Allende being overthrown in Chile with US backing. enlightning, keep an eye out for it's release in the US. the trailer is here http://www.bacfilms.com/site/september11/video/ba1 1sept.mov
The site is here
http://www.bacfilms.com/site/september11/index.php 3#
Kuro5hin has a link to this article at New Times LA. It's unfortunate that I read this and think this is more true than I would have hoped. (Sorry about the dupe. I didn't select HTML formatted previously)
A friend of mine recently send me the following url... He asked me to post it here and to get an opinion from the
What is your opinion on this article?
Please take this chance to educate yourselves. Dont' just go by what you read on the news, and what politicians are saying. Do some research and some critical thinking. The middle east, Palestinian/Isreali problem is more complex then you think. Here are some informative web resources taken from this site.
History & Culture
http://link.lanic.utexas.edu/menic/
MENIC is run by the University of Texas' Center for Middle Eastern Studies, providing research and information on the Middle East.
http://www.ccasonline.org/publications/teachmodule _whoarabs.htm
This web page from The Center for Contemporary Arab Studies at Georgetown University entitled, Who Are the Arabs? gives cultural and historical information about the Arab world.
http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/program/neareast/index.htm l
The Hagop Kevorkian Center at NYU was created in 1966 to support the study of the modern Middle East and promote a more informed understanding of the region. The activities of the Center focus on the contemporary political economy and cultures of the area from North Africa to Central Asia, and on the historical processes that have shaped the present.
With Princeton University, the Hagop Kevorkian Center maintains a video catalogue of over 175 films and videotapes on the Middle East and Islamic World which are lent free of charge to universities, colleges, secondary and middle schools in the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut). See http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/program/neareast/7_video_c atalogue.html
The Center is developing a series of Virtual Classrooms for teachers with art guides, essays, and lesson plans. The first of these is entitled Andalusia: Islamic Spain. See Teaching Materials at: http://www.nyu.edu/gsas/program/neareast/7_teacher _training.html
Politics
http://www.mideastinsight.org
Middle East Insight is published bimonthly by Middle East Insight, Inc., a nonprofit organization whose purpose is to provide a spectrum of views on the Middle East, to enlighten public opinion, and to promote better understanding between the American people and the peoples of the Middle East.
Yep, and kooks like the +5 insightful "peace and bunnies" poster above could only have that attitude if the bad guys trying to kill him are too afraid of his big brother.
Anyone else wonder if GWB is just like messing with Saddam's mind or something? Allowing press leaks, etc. etc. Maybe shuffling around the odd troops.
But nothing firm has happened yet. Even NATO says that there is no Iraq invasion anytime soon.
Is the US trying to down Saddam by giving him a stroke with all of this rumour and perceived threats?
Hello xtheunknown,
I really liked your post and wanted to ask if you might allow me to put part of it into my quotes collection (of course with the source mentioned)
I'd be happy if you contacted me for further questions at the-hyphen at gmx.net
Thank you very much in advance,
Karamchand
Destroying the environment? Pshaw... How many two mile thick clouds of smog that occlude 10% of the sun's light hang over the US? Oh that's right, it's over southeast asia, not the US... /.
The US may of been guilty of environmental disasters in the past, but US industries are amongst the cleanest in the world. You can't even kill yourself in your garage w/ a car that meets CURRENT emission standards (not the insane ones that some people would like to impose)
And what EXACTLY is wrong w/ genetically modified food? In the case of Argentina, it was a patent issue (which is the subject of a whole other argument and a whole other rant) and not the fact that it was genetically modified food...
Oops, wait, I'm at work... shouldn't be ranting on
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No matter your political viewpoint, your heart should go out to all the innocent people who suffered a loss one year from today. I know that mine does.
E
To all of those who knew people affected by the terrorist attacks on September 11 and the aftermath of that event - however small or great the bond was and whatever nation you come from - my greatest heartfelt sympathies go out to you.
"Because it's there." - George Mallory, when asked why he wanted to climb Mt Everest, March 18, 1923 (New York Times)
...it's interesting to note that "BOMBS THESE FUCKERS BACK TO THE STONE AGE" got modded up to +5, Insightful, but a riveting eyewitness account of the WTC collapse only merited a +4.
It seemed to me that some executive stood on some moral high ground and decided to 'protect' everyone from emotions that might well up when listening to John Lennon's 'Imagine' or S & G's "Bridge Over Troubled Water. Dumb. Another example of how out of touch with *people* corporations are.
The only reason I think of this is because I happened to be listening to Ben Kweller's "Falling". (great tune) Hmm.
I have to disagree with you. I was less able to comprehend what I was seeing then realize that this was going to have a very lasting impact on our way of life. Unlike the poster you were replying to, I don't think I specifically felt that freedoms would be taken away. I was more concerned about how this would increase anxiety and fear. I knew that it was a horrible reality check to people that thought we were safe from people that hated us.
So I did not first think of fire and death, I thought more of how my Mom must be really upset and scared in her "safe" downtown condo in Florida. She was also the first person I called.
He can't sign something that guts the Constitution, unless it is also upheld by the Supreme Court.
It also seems like everyone is forgetting that it was first passed by overwhelming margins in both the Senate -- 98-1 -- and the House of Representatives -- 356-66.
I don't like the Patriot Act any more than you do, but it's not entirely the work of GW Bush.
Yes, I think the Terrorists CAN take away our Freedom.
The preamble Constitution of the United States reads:
Without insuring domestic tranquility and providing common defense, the blessings of liberty cannot exist.
a so-called "war" on Afghanistan, despite no real proof's ever coming out that Afghanistan was really involved in the Sept. 11th attacks;
a looming "war" with Iraq, for no apparent reason other than that GWB doesn't like Saddam Hussein;
a $50B increase in military spending in the US, an increase which by itself alone is more than the military budget of any other country in the world;
a steady erosion of US civil liberties and rights, including the imprisonment without due process of two American citizens on spurious charges (Lindh and Padilla) as "enemy combatants";
an extraterritorial concentration camp for unfortunate POWs in Guantanamo Bay;
the odious phrase "regime change" and a resurgence in the belief that the US has the right to effect such changes worldwide by dictatorial fiat, military force, or covert operations;
a steadily worsening situation in the Middle East, particularly involving Israel, Palestine, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, possibly because of the eschatological beliefs of the US government's three major players;
a "perpetual war for perpetual peace" bred out of (as far as I can see) a revenge mentality and a refusal to accept the last death. (As Martin Luther King said, "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.");
the US's disregard for international criminal courts (such as the ICC, to which the US is opposed) and the rule of law shifting from tacit assumption to formal policy, making explicit the seeming belief of US policy-makers that there are two sets of rules: one for the US and one for everyone else.
Well, if these are the results of a reasoned, intelligent, and graceful response, I'd hate to see the results if they just decided to act out of nationalistic fury...
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
There's Fighter jets buzzing my town. Making sure we're awake to watch the various memorials.
Interstingly, the Governor did his speach at 6:30am. Who's watching tv at 6:30
Liberals? Last I checked, Bush & Ashcroft & co. are all conservatives. Did I miss their defection to the Democratic party?
One year ago today, US soil was attacked. I expect to hear a lot about it in the news. I expect to see a lot of ribbons. I expect to see a show of security.
...that they are going to attack where you specifically work and live over better targets? ...and what is the cost you're paying.
That's why I'm not going to watch the news, wear a ribbon, but will make a comment on security.
You see, a lot of American have already mourned and come to emotional terms with what happened. A day of remembrance is nothing more than a day of television ratings. Fair-weather patriots bother me even more; too many people just wear a ribbon to call attention to themselves more than to silently commemorate. The loss of Jim Henson, Gene Roddenberry, and George Burns seemed far more sincere by Americans on many accounts. Perhaps that's because we knew them more intimately, and we know we're supposed to feel bad, but just don't have the connection. I feel it's more important to be honest about your emotional state than to follow the trend of buying a $10 flag for your car and taking a company mandated minute of silence during your lunch break. Is it true loss felt, or more of the desire to just fit in because of peer pressure?
Air travel will be particularly light as American's fear to board a plane this anniversary. We've got scud missiles pointed at the clouds. NIH is checking every single car that passes through its gates. Many US citizens tremble in not being able to leave Northern Virginia fast enough, wanting as much distance as possible between them and the District of Columbia.
It just seems like society doesn't have common sense anymore. Everyone thinks the terrorists are out to get him or her specifically. At SAIC when the planes were falling from the skies, they locked down their parking lots and you had to show a badge. If you're a terrorist, and you've got scare resources of hijacked planes, where are you most likely going to put it... some place of specific military importance or of high political interest, or one of hundreds of SAIC buildings spread over the country? Hmm. Let's think.
GEIS did the same thing for things like the Gulf War or threats from Iraq, and at times even took the GE meatball logo off the building. Security by obscurity just gives a false sense of safety. It's like covering your eyes so the monsters under the bed don't get you.
We know for a fact that the terrorists we're dealing with are patient. They'll sit low for 10 years or more just planning. You think somewhere along the way they'd have access to a phone book with a street address. I'm sorry, but many of us just aren't that important enough to be attacked: what we do or produce can quickly be picked up somewhere else by someone else. Such an attack is wasted, and the terrorists know that.
I understand the publicly stated reasoning behind it all: "we deal with government," "we make parts used in missiles," "we deal with the stock market." The reality is employees who don't understand risk analysis feel scared, and making a show of activity is creates the illusion they're protected. This way they'll go back to being productive and making money for the company.
Take the anthrax scare. The day it came out, the very day, near the very hour of the news report, SAIC had to call in the HAZMAT team because someone reported seeing a white substance in the stall of the women's bathroom. When this happens, every call must be taken seriously. It's expensive, it's inconvenient, and it shuts the place down. It places a taxing burden on emergency response units, and those who seriously need it don't get the on-demand service required for a real emergency. Consider this, Bin Laden himself sneaks past dozens of guards and automated systems, by passes the lobby, conference rooms filled with military, skips over a great biological target like the cafeteria, and goes up half a dozen or so floors, sneaks into the women's bathroom, and drops a white substance overtly on the floor to be seen and recognized by the untrained. Great plan, or irrational panic? I'd argue that more financial damage was done by Americans who did a knee-jerk reaction without asking "come on, is this a likely target of benefit" than the planes themselves. Naturally, hours later the lab reports it's dust from the toilet paper rolls. Go figure. And to be fair, other companies were doing the exact same thing. What did security do? They passed out handy-wipe packets, the kind you get to wipe your fingers after a BBQ dinner, to everyone... yeah, that'll stop Anthrax.
Let's get real, should a terrorist want to breach any of these facilities, do they have the resources to fake a badge? Sure do. But why go through that trouble, when you can point a machine gun at a minimum wage security guard. I once asked an AOL guard what he'd do if a gunman came in demanding to pass. The answer: "Hand him my keys and resign."
Countries are always ready to re-fight the last war, never the current one. We assume that the tactics used will be the ones used again. That's not how wars are fought. Look at how the Red-Coats expected the engagement -- let's point guns at each other, you fire at me, I fire at you, we reload, and go till no one's left to drop. Change tactics, boom. Fast forward to present day, we've got all our defenses set up so that we can address a missile-flying and world-war-II threats. Duh, hasn't anyone realized the enemy is already on our land, has been for years, and has access to deploy from within our borders? Crippling a country has become so much easier now that people won't defend themselves and we rely on supply chains and lack the knowledge of basic survival skills.
I loathe the airport and NIH security policies. First of all, ask yourself, if you were going to conduct another attack, would you be doing it on a day the Americans were waiting for it? The element of surprise just worked so well last time. So, where will todays stepped up security measures be tomorrow? Why weren't they in place yesterday? This is the same issue I take with holiday-only patriots -- where was your pride of country before this event, and why did it fade so quickly?
What's worse is that even if we had all the security policies in place, all the time, even back in 2001, it would not have prevented the attacks. Even the US government admits that. So, I ask, why if we've just declared the procedure benefit-less do we engage in doing it, especially at such cost? The answer: because if we don't do something, people will says "you're not doing anything" -- and that looks politically bad for those holding public office.
It doesn't take half a mind to fashion a decent weapon real-time on an aircraft from readily available supplies. There are so many ways to bypass security that even 60 Minutes got past airport security with a gun on national television.
I'm surprised at how panicked Americans get, too. Two planes barely put a dent in the real face of New York. One plane damaged only a section segment of one wall at the Pentagon. Yet, people were acting like DC had been flattened and the shock wave was traveling hundreds of miles. That's movie special effects, not reality. I thought other countries had a problem with conceptualizing the size of the United States, apparently it's own citizens do as well. If something really bad is happening, please leave the public utilities and transportation means open to emergency units. News will still travel.
The problem with current security policies is two fold. Number one, we don't take into account that the attacker is willing to trade their life for their goal. This one is hard to combat, because the common set of deterrents don't work. Number two, we don't take a pro-active stance; we believe the world thinks like us, shares our views, embraces diversity, and as a whole wants to get along. People, we're the ignorant ones.
What this attack has shown is how unprepared we are, and more importantly, were. We can't want the government to protect our borders and at the same time deny them the means to provide that defense. Defense doesn't equate to war. And each time a country has been completely subdued by force, peace results, and usually good relations after the fact. Each time we let the politicians dictate how, we still have skirmishes and we've lost. Think Japan. Think Korea.
Because we're in a panic, many Americans are willing to trade privacy, freedoms, and liberties for security. I shake my head at this behavior. Safety does not have to come at the expenditure of these things, and more importantly, shouldn't. Plus, the "security" we're getting is illusionary; it's not the real kind that gets the job done. It's a show.
Let's wise up and start asking the right questions. What is the realistic probability that terrorists are going to attack today?
As the old joke goes, "elephants are excellent at hiding in trees." "What do you mean, I've never seen one before." "My point exactly." Before you allow fear and stress to ruin your emotional state and you've tossed every principle being an American is about out the window, ask yourself if those guys protecting trees from having elephants climb in them are actually providing value, and while you're at it, find out how many elephants they've personally been able to stop in the past.
Be careful, you might get a call from one of their many laywers!
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!
I send late condolences to the families of 91101 vctms.
I have never been to the US, nor Europe or even afghanistan so I think my view quite independent.
From what I have seen on tv, it seems that we are headed torwards doom as a planet. First, america gets attacked, then they go into an ultra paranoid mode where they suspect everyone, quit issuing visas to genuine visitors, plan to bomb iraqi people and diss the UN etc.
I mean we are scared of you guys. Our countries certainly do not have your kinda ammo and what happened really is that the talibans have really pissed off the US and now the US percieve everyone else as a potential terrorist.
Understandable, but its just reinforcing the belief that the US only cares about the US.
I think the US needs to make friends rather than fight everyone to push its agenda.
Is it just me, or did slashdot just slashdot itself when slashdot linked to an old slashdot article? If slashdot had a cacheing mechanism that cached slashdot's articles so slashdot wouldn't hit slashdot so hard, both slashdot and slashdot would come out ahead. Honestly, slashdot should keep the welfare of small sites like slashdot in mind when doing things like this.
Maybe the state's highest function is to grind out insoluble problems. (Zelazny, Hall of Mirrors)
I remember being at the WTC the weekend before 9/11 and calling a friend of mine who joined me for that trip to WTC and then the South Street Seaport for dinner. I had been in the towers before, but couldn't accept the fact that they both were gone. Looking up into the sky along the side of the buildings from the ground, they seemed like they were permanent. Sad that other people's ways of life are so against the Western worlds'. Some people say its because of the US's involvement in the middle East, others for our foreign policy in general, some say for jealousy of what a great country the Citizens of the USA enjoy living in. For whatever reason good vs. evil, East vs. West, Islam vs The World, whatever it might be considered, we bear the loss of fellow humans, friends, loved-ones in a terrible, cowardly act against freedom and what we beleive in. I'm hoping and praying that 9.1.02 is a safe and uneventful day. -mh
Relive the BBS Past - One Byte at a Time! www.ssabbs.com
US pressure did get Musharraf to crack down a bit on the madrasas in Pakistan, so there's probably a /little/ less indoctrination going on there. The training camps have also been disrupted somewhat, so even those that hate the US will have a somewhat harder time learning to express that hate in assorted nasty ways.
As for how to piss off a religious extremist, all you have to do is not obey their every command.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
An eye for an eye leaves us all blind.
Failure is not an option. It comes automatically enabled in every Microsoft product.
Several interesting follow-up points:
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
for someone's grandfather and complain that the service was a sham because they didn't say anything about your Uncle George who recently died?
All you folks who're complaining that we should remember other people from other tragic events are missing the point. This is about the victims of 9/11.
If you would like to stage a rememberance for people who died in some other event, please feel free. No one's going to stop you.
If an american company wishes to salute the victims and the heros of 9/11 by forgoing advertising revenue for the day, that's thier choice. I think it sends a powerful message. The US culture is one of success at almost any cost. This says that it's more important to show support for the victims than it is to make a buck.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
It's not about death as revenge or justice as far as I'm concerned, it's about death because there's literaelly nothing else to do with these people. There's no way that human law can possibly carry out a "just" punishment against these people no matter what you do.
We're talking about people who think it's OK to kill thousands of civillians and actively seek to do so. This isn't just "misguided," it's just plain wrong, but these people have all but been programmed to think this way.
What would we do with them? Could we capture them and try to "de-program" them? Not very likely. When you're cheering the death of thousands of unwitting civillians, I'm tempted to say you're too far gone for rehabilitation.
And what if it were possible? Would you enjoy living another 50-60 years knowing you did so utterly reprehensible and wrong? Normal people in the US prison system have to go through counseling when they take part in an execution, and that's just one person. How much counseling would you have to go through for 2000+?
The only other "alternative" is to lock them up in a cell somewhere for the rest of their lives. And as far as I'm concerned, captial punishment is more humane than life in prison with no chance of parole. Nothing but you, the four walls around you, and your thoughts.
These people are too far gone to even try to set straight. We'd be doing everybody a favor (including them) by killing them.
A year after on an attack on the United States which killed thousands of innocent people, it is a challenge to avoid polemics or hackneyed sentimentalism. The confusion stirred up by these events has raised tensions both between the cultural West and East, and within the West itself. The well intentioned from all over the political spectrum have analyzed and interpreted the events surrounding the specific attacks and the wider questions that surround it ad infinitum, yet no clear strategy or purpose has emerged from the West to deal with this crisis.
The moral questions that surround the attacks, the nature of "terrorism", and the conflict between the fundamentalist Islamic world and the West are interesting but somewhat irrelevant. The attempt to paint different actors good and evil have gained nothing in the way of consensus and open up its supporters to claims of hypocrisy and blindness. On the other side, the justification of anti-American sentiment based on moral equivalency or past or current US actions, while having valid points, will win no converts and is suspect of being a front for latent anti-Americanism.
So what are the options for the West? We can do nothing, but the status quo has given us our current situation. We can attempt to understand the perpetrators, but who the perpetrators are is an elusive subject itself. The conceit that we can actually understand them is also a bit unrealistic, considering the stark differences in the foundations of our societies, the difference in wealth and technology, and the deep hatred embedded on both sides.
The difference in wealth and technology is a poignant one as it brings us to see the essence of the crisis. We currently have the technological means so far ahead of any of our possible adversaries that with the momentum of a unified West, we can stop any regime that supports the destruction of our culture. That difference in culture, wealth, and technology, is the raison d'etre for the nascent movements against the West. Couched in religious fundamentalism, it becomes even more dangerous, and practically incurable, unless the West was to give up the very core of its culture. As this is unlikely to happen, unless we destroy the power behind the culture that seeks to destroy us, we will be destroyed ourselves. To see this is as impossible is to be pessimistic as to the power of our society. To see this as easy is to be naïve. The political correctness that leads us away from calling a clash of civilizations "a clash of civilizations" reveals our soft underbelly.
I am not a hawk or a warmonger. Before this crisis emerged, I would have been against any moves by the US or the West that would be seen as imperialistic or bullying. After careful consideration however, I no longer care about the perceptions of the US by those both on the inside and the outside of Western society. By eliminating the regimes in Iran, Syria, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, we will do a service to countless future generations by removing the vitriolic cancer of hate and ignorant religiousness that permeates those societies. To think that someday (and I'm not sure if it is as soon as the media is no portraying it) these societies will not possess nuclear weapons and use them against us is naivety to the point of delirium. This is no crusade, to call it such would be to further couch our motives in destructive religious terms, it is a battle for human progress and civilization.
Under confusion, non-cooperation, and disinterestedness, Rome was overrun.
(originally posted by me on internet infidels )
GetTheJob.com : Nothing but Real Jobs.
I'm still really pissed off about those palistineans dancing in the streets with joy while downtown Manhattan was busy getting covered in 2 inches of soot.
No time to track down a link now (sorry), but it turned out that the journalist was giving out treats to the crowd in exchange for getting them to "celebrate."
-Waldo Jaquith
Holy Crap, do you even see what is wrong with this statement? You have just crammed YOUR religious beliefs into a sentence that is supposedly about letting people believe what they want to believe. YOU need to think about the fact that not everyone believes in God, let along YOUR god. Not everyone has the same views, you need to respect that.
But I do agree with you about peace and harmony. The real problem here is that sometimes you cannot hug someone and make it all better. You need to accept the fact that there are people out there whose beliefs and actions threaten others. Changing your beliefs will not necessarily change theirs. Even if you strive for peace, they may not. What do you do then? Palastine/Israel is a prime example. There is no clear right or wrong in that situation, if there was then the outcome would be obvious. It is not. I think the source of a lot of the world's conflicts can't be solved by organized religion because they are CAUSED by the beliefs that organized religion perpetuates. A lot of the most horrific things that the human race has done have been in the name of religion. So I agree that we should all pursue peace. But do it for the sake of peace, not under the guise of religion.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
It was the worst day of my life.. my now fiance had gone to work downtown that morning and I had slept in.. I work with people on West coast and in New Zealand, and work doesn't start until later.
Well, I was awakened with phone calls.. my friend mistook my early morning groggly voice for grief, and said "oh my god, is Sarah OK?" . "What? why?", I said. "You haven't heard? The Trade Center is gone.. it's just gone.. two planes crashed into them and they fell over"
Well, the first minutes after that were a delirium.. I think for a full minute I was frozen after I realized that the TV was out and the phone lines were too.. what could I do?
Well, Sarah worked close to the Trade Center, but fortunately, she'd been re-routed in her commute, and later that day I got ahold of her and then finally got her home. The only good news of the day was that many people had the same experience. The bad news of the day.. well.. it's hard to call that news even.. more like the Bad of that day..
The first week we were glued to the TV.. I've long been interested in history and politics, and it was clear that this event would be one of the most significant historical events of my life.. I was still in shock from that morning, really, and needed as much information as possible.. I didn't want to feel powerless again.
That didn't last long though.. I quickly realized that the trajectory of TV was going away from information and towards politicization. I'd always thought this was the general case with TV, but here it's ugly head was reared up again, and at the worst of times.
I stopped watching TV, and slowly stopped reading new papers. I stopped reading slashdot, and everything. I stopped listening to music, and reading.
Finally, after a few months of quiet-time, long walks outside, time with family and friends, and many quiet reflective hours, I started reading again. Just light stuff at first, but finally, books about the Middle East, books about modern politics, books questioning the standard lines of argument. And slashdot again, and kuro5hin, and emails with others that were starting to do the same.
Well, now a year later I have finally started paying attention to the news again, and all I can say is, it's sickening.
What's happening in our government and in our country's foreign policy is.. well, you'll have to decide. But, consider that you don't have a voice in it.. Bush was ready to make war without any sort of democratic process, much less a popular process. Judging from the comments here today, it's obvious why. Most people want to know why things got to be this way. Most people want to keep them from happenning again. Seemingly, the only ones in the world who answer "Evil" and "Conquer Evil through War" to those questions the same ones who could be included in the blame, and who stand to benefit most: our government. Notice the rest of the world.. really almost every nation of the UN answers: "Your foreign policy created a monster" and "Deal with it ethically and legally".
Our governments answers sound too simple intentionally. They're meant to play off of our desire for security and simplicity in our lives again. Please, see what other opinions are out there and if they're substantiated. If we commit attrocities to others in some sort of simplistic reaction to a situation we helped create.. well, we won't have those simple peaceful lives.
I've taken off of work today to spend time with my fiance.. to reflect and mourn. Maybe we'll see you in the streets.
Perhaps one of the most important lessons of today could be to look at America's foreign policy since Sept. 11 as it is widely agreed that it was this that helped provoke the attacks.
...while America alone rejected to enforce 1972 Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention agreement on inspections.
...rather than a country that has tried to learn from a tragedy.
3000 cillvians may have died in the WTC attacks yets many 1000's more died in America's attacks on Afganistan
America is attacking Iraq on the basis that they won't allow access to weapons inspectors
America and its new war on terror stinks of hypocracy and imperialism
This UID is 7651 digits too high to subjectively infer IQ from.
OSDN .. thank you for replacing banner ads with a black graphic for 9.11 .. a simple, classy, and appropriate way to remember those who lost their lives today ..
Of course we should mourn the deaths on Sept. 11.
:-(
On that date in 1973 the democratically elected government of Chile was overthrown by the CIA-sponsored military, resulting in the deaths (ironically) of about 3000 people and bringing the dictatory Pinochet to power.
I guess you're a terrorist only if you're on the other team.
Having sampled much of the "anniversary" rubbish currently being run instead of news in papers, on website and on television, I've noticed the most important *new* story has been missed.
...
That is, the massive public backlash against this over-wrought, corporatized, media-hyped grieving period. Everyone I know, even people who usually suck at their various media feeds like a crack pipe, are one and all rejecting the media hype surrounding this "event", and doing their own thing to remember in a dignified fashion.
I've never seen anything quite like it, such a broad rejection of mass-media values and corporate mandated "feelings time" - and of course there's not one mention of "people expressing disdain for media exploitation of grief" anywhere to be found on the "news"
That in over 50 years since Israel was founded, their enemies still don't recognize them enough to even put them on their maps.
That Palestinian children are so brainwashed into hating Israel, scores of them have strapped bombs on themselves in order to blow themselves up as well as many Israeli citizens as they can take out.
That Iraq is able to scoff at international law, kicking out the U.N inspectors and rebuilding their weapons of mass destruction while the rest of the world(except the U.S.) turns a blind eye.
The really sad thing is that when all is said and done, Palestine will end up with no more than they were already promised before the start of the infitada. The Taliban is gone, Al-Qaeda has been scattered to the wind, and Iraq will undoubtedly see a regime change. All that vehement hatred directed toward the U.S. and Israel, and what is it going to get them? Nothing, if not less than what they had before.
That is truly sad.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
I remember. I got emails from relatives.
I started collecting stories every day from the web and posted some of the emails.
I made my own little bhuj quake site for family and friends.
For the first month a few friends and family checked it out.
After the initial month, people were too busy to look.
This year, in August, over 1.5 yrs and a huge riot later, a close friend's wife went to help directly in Bhuj. When I asked if she had done any sight seeing or sampled some of the great food, the reply: she did not have time, she worked. BTW, she's probably in her 50's.
People perform actions, most of them are private in scope and miniscule in comparision to the media-grabbing stances.
Remember them when you remember the 11th.
The whole point of the matter is that no one deserves death, even those who take up arms against you.
.Someone that by choices TARGETS innocent civilians for mass murder *deserves* to die.
It is so sad that you think this is true.
There are VERY few people in this world that I wish death upon. They didn't accidentally have a stray bullet hit someone.
If you wanted to debate WHO the actual killers were, fine. Maybe the mastermind is the only person left who should go down, some might say that anyone who EVER heard even a whisper of a possibility of the plot and did not act is subject to death as well.
But to make a broad, generalizatation that NO ONE deserves death is just too much.
I WILL WISH DEATH UPON THEM. I do NOT pity them beyond the sad choice that have made, and their crass indifference to the impact their childish rage has brought.
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
I will watch some of the programming, as a way of keeping the incident fresh in my memory; but I do object to some of the tone of the programming. Perhaps the best way to show our strength is to appear less wounded.
We've done a great deal of healing since the attack; and if I felt we had a statement for Bin Laden, it would be that we are not nearly as wounded as he might think we are.
Please understand that I'm not minimizing any of the hurt or loss; but look at us. We're arguing over what to rebuild at the site. We're flocking to the movies on weekends. We're gonna put Martha Stewart in the hoosgow. We're still driving from state to state without papers, and even still teaching people how to fly. Bin Laden failed to be as big a hazard as even traffic accidents last year; but look at what he and his organization have suffered. Outside of radical Islamic circles, he has lost any credibility he had. He's far from being ineffective; but his work is in fact very restricted compared to a year ago. Overall, he's a failure.
So perhaps we should advertise our healing as well as our pain.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
Alright, this might annoy some people, but I'll go for it because I'm frankly sick of all this.
I live in New York. Last week I got an email from an old acquaintence ("Old aquaintance" translates to "sends me chain letters and won't stop") asking everyone on the list to pray for the dead and those who have lost. She also suggested that everyone drive with their headlights on today (Twin beams of light! Get it?!?). I normally ignore her, but on this one I snapped. Like a good portion of people in New York (I assume), the attacks affected me for two weeks. It was horrible to see the city shut down for a week - it seemed impossible. But life went on. I didn't lose anyone. I didn't didn't lose my job.
But people refused to let go - the media and politicians, specifically, as well as Americans who now use this as a way of explaining who we are as a nation. It's not denial on my part or anything - the actual attacks haven't affected me in any way, emotional or otherwise, in a little under a year.
The things that have affected me are things like the US PATRIOT act, Bush's rampant power-grab. So I emailed my friend back and told her to give $50 to the ACLU or the EFF. You want to help, fine, but prayer does absolutely nothing, and driving with your lights on is stupid. It's...painless. You're not pinching your budget, you're not donating time. Do something substantial.
I think our attitude (ok, mine) is summed up perfectly as this: We don't ever want to forget, but we don't want to be constantly reminded either.
It's not online yet but there's a wonderful article voicing this opinion much better than I can in this month's Harper's. I suggest you pick up a copy.
Triv
Here in New York, they are reading the names of the lost. The radio has been broadcasting the reading live for the past two hours; they are in the P's now... it is a solemn and beautiful memorial, the only true memorial, in a sense.
In the morning, Governor Pataki read the Gettysburg address. While he is not the most eloquent speaker, the words of that address are so powerful that they speak very directly to us, on this day, in this place. Try reading it slowly, out loud (or whispered) to yourself:
four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
Of course, what I'd really like would be some on-on-one time with Natalie Portman but that has nothing to do with 9/11. Actually, nothing that I want has anything to do with 9/11 but everone else in the world seems to somehow think that everything they want depends on it so I figure I might as well join the bandwagon.
In America, we have two liberal parties.
I have listened to the politicians and the people espousing words like revenge and justice. After watching those buildings fall last year, and yes I know it is a small tragedy compared with others on a global scale, I can't help but think to myself... Why? Why did this happen. What made these people so filled with blind hatred towards an entire nation of people? It has been 365.24 days and I don't feel like one step has been made towards answering that question. I see an impending escalation of violence in the world and all I'm asking is why? I really don't think its too much to ask for....
Mod me up if you have a good answer
...but isn't the US-centric and ignorant formatting of the date of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center symptomatic of America's attitude towards the rest of the world, certainly not the least cause of said attacks.
You left out the worst natural disaster in U.S. history. The Galveston Hurricane of 1902 killed over 6,000 people.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Ok just off the top of my head, I'll give you some clues
WIPO, think all the prople who die because of patents on drugs and the WIPO trying to wipe out clone productions.
BUSH, I've got my finger on the button and it's twitching. enough said.
RIAA,WIPO, There effectivly introducting a world where everything is licensed there fucking up contract laws and there probably lobying for hellish privicy laws the RIAA and WIPO are turning the world into a corporate state. fuck napster i can hum the songs if i want to copythem.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
9.11.1973 - Remember that day?
My mind is constantly justifying its rejection of racisim to itself lately it seems. The same goes for most of our freedoms, e.g. do we really need, why do we allow, etc. I can't stand that I am now forced to do these things, espeically since I was raised in an enviroment where racisim and prejudice were intolerable. It makes me hate what happened more than any other element.
I thought hard, and only made one promise last September, and that was to live each day to its fullest. I think I've succeeded so far, this last year I went from an apartment dweller with a girlfriend to a homeowner with a fiance, two new cars, and a dog. I like to think I'm trying to live the life so many others didn't have a chance to. That is the american way, afterall.
I don't know that it took a terrorist act to force me to wake up, in fact, my outlook on the world is much dimmer than most. I know there are alot of high tensions in the world, mainly resulting out of what ammounts to jealousy and greed, and in the end, lots of things ammount to jealousy and greed, including the reasons behind why the US is what the US is today.
During the presidental election, I was forced into voting for Bush over Gore, because I was afraid Gore might ruin my career (as a computer programmer), at least more than Bush is capable of doing in ignorance. As an afterthought, I'm still not sure what I would do. Does anyone really beleive Gore would've handle this situation in a more graceful way? I don't think so.
So, mabye I'm awake, mabye I'm not. Mabye what I really want is someone to go ahead, and make the irrational decision that ends this problem one way or another. All things considered, that's the only way its going to happen anyway.
that sounds a lot like how singapore has always been.
I believe that the UK investigation started decided that it was the chemicals that the UK and US pumped there troops full of that caused gulfwar syndrom.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I'm always at a loss when I hear or read someone stating how evil America is. I try to explain about all the good America has done such as helping to win WWI and WWII, feedding the needy, help promote freedom (America's true culture). But I never seem to be able to convince them.
After reading some comments here from a year ago and from now, I realized you can't convince some people. How do you convince someone in the KKK that it is wrong to hate a group based on race? How do you explain to a Nazis that you can't hate and kill people based on their religion? You can't. I've learned that the KKK, Nazis and the Hate America crowd are just too closed-minded and full of hatred. It is a sad life.
God bless America.
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you!
Okay, I'll try to keep it brief and to the point.
I'm a fourth generation New Yorker. I went to Stuyvesant and had been coordinating donations to them a few weeks before. I was supposed to be in the WTC when the first plane hit and was late only because we were running behind getting ready for a presentation. I had a nurse coordinator sleeping on my sofa that night because she couldn't get home and had been working 'til midnight, I watched a friend of mine have a several day long delusional semi-pychotic break starting the 13th and myself spent several days, mostly in the rain, building the on-site logistics for the Salvation Army (was high enough in their rankings to have been offered control of their ground zero headquarters but was told that my work at 14th was more important).
Blah, blah, blah. I could go on for a few more paragraphs. Suffice to say that I was in Manhattan that day and lived through actively troubleshooting throughout the cleanup and am still doing it now.
Insert stuff about issues of helping friends with police/fireman funerals, trashed jobs, etc. Yeah, I've got all the cred, was there, did that, suffered, and so on.
So, that having been said, WILL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES?!?!? 9/11 was terrible. It caused all sorts of awful things and not nearly enough real reform (yet). But this morbid, self-righteous, flag-waving jingoism isn't helping anybody.
If you really want to do something appropriate, take today as one for quiet contemplation of two things, the terribly pernicious effects of fanatical belief (which I guarantee, ties in both cause and effect ways to poverty and totalitarianism), and what you are going to actually do to try to raise a generation of saner, more financially secure children, who will be inculcated with the sort of understanding of rights, rigor, reason, and responsibility that will keep us from this kind of fucked up twisted criminality in the first place.
Still reading? Then go here, get the damned thing (it was certainly enough trouble to create) and sign it.
On my reluctant way down to "ground zero" for the day,
Rustin
Data is the lever, rigor the fulcrum, brains the force that drives it all.
Yeah, it was bad. I mourn that day when so many died by so few who felt that was the only way to make a statement or exact revenge or push some political agenda or whatever.
A life, any life, is a precious thing that once taken, can never be returned. How can we protect our lives? How can we be safe? Freedom is inherently unsafe. Yet, between safety and freedom, I'll always choose freedom.
My hats off to the couragous crew and passengers of the 4th airliner. If there were a civilian version of the Medal of Honor and if anyone truely deserved it, the people of that 4th airliner certainly do. Good job, thank-you and God bless.
eerie how? every morning there you are sitting. we're you expecting to die as well? are you just a gaydo kharma whore? did you jump on the patriotic bandwagon on this day a year ago like the rest of the lames that read this shit page?
The government isn't surveilling everyone. Just anyone with munitions and an attitude. That feeling of a long erosion i the realization that abunch of towelheaded crazies were trying to instill fear.
Dawn of the Dead
I remember the The Onion's Bob Seigel saying that Irony was dead, a bit premature I think. When they came back, their 9/11 coverage was excellent.
Ridiculopathy.com's 9/11 year in review also seems worth the read. Some of the stuff, quite dated by subsequent events, reads like a time capsule of topical humor immediately following that horrible day.
most fitting for today:
I would give the greatest sunset in the world for one sight of New
York's skyline. Particularly when one can't see the details. Just the shapes.
The shapes and the thought that made them. The sky over New York and the
will of man made visible. What other religion do we need?...Is it beauty
and genius they want to see? Do they seek a sense of the sublime? Let them
come to New York, stand on the shore of the Hudson, look and kneel. When
I see the city from my window -- no, I don't feel how small I am -- but
I feel that if a war came to threaten this, I would like to throw myself
into space, over the city, and protect these buildings with my body.
-The Fountainhead
The building stood on the shore of the East River, a structure rapt
as raised arms. The rock crystal forms mounted in such eloquent steps that
the building did not seem stationary, but moving upward in a continuous
flow - until one realized that it was only the movement of one's glance
and that one's glance was forced to move in that particular rhythm. The
walls of pale gray limestone looked silver against the sky, with the clean,
dulled luster of metal, but a metal that had become a warm, living substance,
carved by the most cutting of all instruments - a purposeful human will;
the skyscrapers, the shapes of man's achievement on earth.
-The Fountainhead
preach that the highest virtue man can practice is to hold his own life
as of no value; parasite(s) in spirit, who plunder the ideas created by
others...There is only one state that fulfills the mystics longing for
infinity, non-causality, non-identity: death. A mystic relishes the spectacle
of suffering, of poverty, subservience, and terror; these give him a feeling
of triumph, a proof for the defeat of rational reality.
-Atlas Shrugged
For more information on Ayn Rand and Objectivism, go here.
~insert tech sarcasm here~
I wrote a comment to this, but to save space on this server I will only post a link to it. I don't agree with the above poster. But I will let the details of this be presented by my diary entry. Comments welcome here or there.
I believe that your efforts to "save space" on this server are really just a ploy to profit from this tragedy by drumming up hits for your own site, so I choose not to follow your link. I might look tomorrow.
Mike van Lammeren
It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.
Oh my God! My rights are gone! Because of those terrible white republicans. Oh dear! They are the same guys that started the WTC bombing one, and we are to blame for this attack. Oh my! You are taking my 1st amendment rights from me! The US is to blame. Bush is to blame! Capitalism is to blame! Oh dear.
Dawn of the Dead
First off, AC says it all.
Second, The only way to avoid this kill and be killed is to stop supporting fucked up regimes abroad! Have you ever been abroad?! I was over in India, about 50km from the Pak border when Delhi was attacked last December. I was a scared shitless whitie driving parallel to the border, surrounded by foreigners, and seeing troops and big ass missle and weapons caravans drive by. War is not some little piss ass, edited for cnn, clip provided by the government for us (gee, that's an oxymoron if i've ever hear one).
A lot of the Osama types are really pissed of not just at us, but at the ruling Saudi Arabia regime. You think just cuz they're our ally they're ok? Or did you even know that? Hmm, read about Whabism and more about the ruling Saudi family and you'll start to get an idea of why having the biggest waster of world resources in the most sacred place in all of Islam makes some people get really pissed. How would you feel if some people came to the parking lot of your church and started doing animal sacrafices or something against your God or Godly artifacts; things you thought were totally whacked?! Of course, it's not right to kill and not all Saudis (or anyone else for that matter) are 'bad', but events happen for reasons - right or wrong. The more people know about those reasons - i.e., history - the more they understand and can make better decisions. As much as I love the US, you think we're any less barabric than any other country out there? We definitely didn't kill 6 mln jews, but we helped kill ~ 2mln vietnemese, scores in central america (remember that!?) - and that's only 2 of many incidents in the last 30 years that the US has in/directly supported.
If you travel outside the world, you get a pretty good idea of what the US is to others. A enigma; a place where everyone is wealthy; a place that makes great movies (some of the time); a place of freedom; a place where one can vote! (unless of course, your black and live in Florida); and, of course, a bully. Time and time again we've walked away from UN resolutions and global conferences because we can - and that's bullshit!. Do as I say, not as I do.. Uh-huh. I like most of us here. But I can't stand this attitude like 'we're sooooo innocent and right and screw you if you screw with us'. However, with extreme regimes around the world, this attitude is similar.
And as far as loving democracy and freedom, you must be stoked right now! I'm sure you support right not to distribute DeCSS? (altho that was prior to 9/11, but still) The DMCA? (ditto) Detaining suspects with no proof of any wrong doing? The RIAA and their lot? The Berman bill?! Some of these don't have a direct link to 9/11, but the whole 'fuck freedom and the constitution' have made it easier for horrendous laws to see the light of day or the 'light' around the corner. Gee, further flushing down the toilet one of the few things that others in the world look up to us for.
As far as 'un-America', wtf is that!? America is the most diverse country in the world! 'un-American'? Ya know, go grab your gun or whatever and go sign up for the army if this is how you feel. Go kill! Go perpetuate the endless cycle. Go for it! I , unlike you, get sick of people who have no common sense and no desire to get past the human condition of kill and kill again - something that 2000 years has done little to change. If more of you people that hate everyone or some just die off, then maybe those of us who really believe that there can be peace will have some room to achieve it. The constitution, not just for the US, but for every common person on this planet is more than just a noble idea. That's what you should be fighting FOR, no against! Ugh, people like you really piss me off - but, I'd never hurt you because of it. And, I'll always recognize your right to disagree with it.
You're not getting it, are you?
There are people in this world who will in fact refuse to kill another person even when their own life is in danger.
Really.
Even when they actually have to make the choice in real life.
Furthermore, there are people who can kill another person out of necessity without being happy about it.
Frankly, I'd much rather live in a world populated by those people than by people hyped up on the idea of pre-emptive strikes.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
OK, so don't ever watch any specials about Hiroshima or the Bombing of Dresden either (which both had a LOT more casualties, almost all civilian). Oh, but these were Americans that were killed, so this is different...
Yes it is different, but not for the asinine racist or bigoted reasons you so disingenuously imply.
First, the insinuation that it is somehow common for Americans to value American lives over other lives is false and disingenuous. Media coverage does not equal people's attitudes. When I lived in Germany, the national news emphesized which Germans had been killed in such and such an event, just as American media emphesizes which Americans are killed in such and such an event. Ditto for the time I spent in Japan, in the UK, in Hong Kong, and in France. The Media always emphesizes the number of 'locals' killed in dramatic events, irrespective of whether those 'locals' are Americans, French, Germans, Chinese, or Japanese.
However, none of the Germans I knew were any less horrified at the loss of non-German lives than they were with the German lives lost (remember the Concord?). Ditto for the UK, France, etc., and ditto for the United States
Secondly, you are equating battles which took place against already belligerent enemies engaged in all out, no-holds barred world war, versus unprovoked attacks (by any reasonable definition, all "blame the victim" nonsense aside) during peacetime, such as Pearl Harbor and most especially the events of 9/11. This doesn't make the destruction of Heroshima, Nagasaki (forgot about them, didn't you?), and Dresden any less tragic or terrible, but it does mean they were fudamentally different in their nature and their context than the events of 9/11.
So, while the civilian deaths of Heroshima and Dresden were terrible, that was war, waged against countries which were engaged in active hostilities against us and who, by the way, started the fucking thing to begin with. The World Trade Center, in contrast, was not. Equating the two, and drawing asinine conclusions like "Americans are bigots who care only for themselves" is fallicious both logically and ethically, and frankly you should be ashamed.
The vast majority of us (aside from some fringe elements, of which every country has its fair share I might add) are horrified whenever we see death, be it American or otherwise. Why do you think we give so much of our money to try and alleviate famine, pestilence, and the ravages of wars we aren't even involved in in so many distant lands. Because, irrespective of our media or our government's behavior, we as a people do care about human life and are saddened by human suffering, irrespective of whether the people affected are American or not.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
How many more people are going to die.
. htm
s ia _sr42_fy02.html
7 02 63.stm
By the Taleban, who wants the world to return the late 14th century. Wants Christians, Homosexuals, Hindu's, moderate Islamics, and anyone who disagrees with sharia to be put to death?
What were the predictions of death before the US went in there due to starvation in Afganistan (irregardless of US bombs?) 7,500,000. People forget that we immediatly started food shipments as well into afganistan (and had already been providing more then a 3 million in aid even with Bin Ladin in sactuary in Afganistan).
source: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/afg159.doc
Will we save them all? Probably not. Did we save most of them? Yes. That alone is a major step up.
We have invested 689 Million dollors just into relief efforts.
In general, if there is one criticism to be made in general from the Afgani war is that we did not take a active enough approach to it, and accidently killed people that the warlords "mis-identified".
http://www.usaid.gov/hum_response/ofda/centrala
Many millions more are going to the governments directly as well. Imagine how much worse it could have been if we had not gotten involved when we did.
By Al-Qeda
Al-Qeda has called for the re-establishment of a Celiphate as their main rallying call. In addition, Bin Ladin wants the relativly (anything is relative compared to Iran/Iraq/Syria) moderate government blodily overthrown.
Al-Qeda contains many other organizations. On top of this list is the Lashkar Jihad which has been attempting to "purify" Indonesia by exterminating the Christians.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7
3000 or more have died.
Aceh Merdeka is responsible for more then 2000 deaths in Indonesia
Want more? Go Here:
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/
These groups will kill simply on the basis of ethnic, religous or political differences.
Today they are being challanged.
Hussain stands with Hitler as the only dictator to use WMDs against his own population (gassing). He has killed hudreds of thousands of political dissidents, and invaded two nearby countries in the last twenty years. He is activly persuing biological, nukes, and chemical weapons. Deployed WMD's for strike against Isreal in the Desert War in the early 90's but was dissuaded when the US government informed him that the response would be of "biblical proportions" should any WMD be used. Known to believe that Isreal's annilihation would be the key to unifying the Middle east.
How many will die? Depends on weither we stop him before he nukes someone.
I remember that morning.. was on my wat to work in Westchester NY and was on 9A which parallells the Hudson for a bit... I dont remember the order of things, but I know I saw a plane swoop down kinda low,.. wobble back and forth a few times, and then go off at an odd angle... a plane never caught my attention like that as I was driving before, and since they did follow the Hudson as a guide, I just kinda have a feeling that it was one of them.. Was listening to Howard Stern that morning too... and when he broke in with the story, I remember the whole road came to a stop. I got to work and pictures and video were already flying through the network.. couldnt get a phone line for anything.. military jets and helecoptors just screamed over the area... days like that arent easy to forget, and they shouldnt be forgotten anyway.
"More NYC firefighters smoke since 9/11"
i ng .firefighters/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/09/11/ar911.smok
OK, have we just broad jumped over trivial and landed squarely on ludicrous.
Jeeze, if I had to dig through blood soaked rubble trying to find whatever body parts of fallen comrades I could, I think I would need a smoke (or fifth of vodka or serious drugs).
AOL Merger = Death of CNN
Political correctness is the newest form of slavery.
What's up with that?
Anyway, what this is really about is that some fringe Islamist groups DISAPPROVE OF U.S. FOREIGN POLICY. That's it. If you think that this relatively tiny cabal should be able to set U.S. foreign policy, I don't know what to tell you.
I like the way that banner ads have been dropped from /. today. There is a small reminder about why there are no ads. What there is *not*, is a small reminder about who's decision it was to drop the ads.
For example, when I opened my yahoo today, I get a big pop-under with an american flag. It seems like a nice tribute, until you see the brought-to-you-by-casino-on-net link at the bottom. If you really want to honor the day, you should go out of your way to take yourself out of the equation. It shouldn't be "look at me, I'm doing the right thing!", it should just be... the right thing.
You will not get public acclaim for your actions, but that is exactly why those actions will succeed in their aim. Don't taint the day with greed.
I live in a country that has had 'Terrorism' since before I was born.
IMHO a terrorist attack is against civilians not against the state.
Blowing up a army base is militant not terrorist. blowing up a school is terrorist.
On 11/09/2001 there were 3 targets,
the pentagon, camp David and the world trade centres.
The pentagon and camp David are obviously legitimate military targets for a militant group.
The groups associated with the attacks said they didn't have any problem with American people only the government (including the capitalist bodies in the US)
It is therefore possible to view the world trade centre as a legitimate military target and the employees as agents of the state. the attacks then become military not terrorist.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Ok just off the top of my head, I'll give you some clues
WIPO, think all the prople who die because of patents on drugs and the WIPO trying to wipe out clone productions.
BUSH, I've got my finger on the button and it's twitching. enough said.
RIAA,WIPO, There effectivly introducting a world where everything is licensed there fucking up contract laws and there probably lobying for hellish privicy laws the RIAA and WIPO are turning the world into a corporate state. fuck napster i can hum the songs if i want to copythem.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
*every* religion believes in a god, some in multiple gods (even very non-christian "pagan" religions), and in every religion, it states that man does not determine who lives and dies, god does.
If you can find me a religion that states man decides who lives and who dies, than I will eat my words.
(btw, I don't consider atheism a religon. That's like calling anarchy a form of government)
Ne Quid Nimis - All things in moderation
Taking an isolated event out of historical context and...you have an excellent point to use during a debate.
Look at the same point in context of WHO attacked who and your point suffers miserably...
---"What did I say that sounded like 'Tell me about your day?'"---
WWII, WWI had definite ends (surrender of Germany and Japan), the fighting was basically over at Appomatox (sp?) in the Civil War which lead to capitulation of the South (hold outs like Jesse James became outlaws), in Vietnam we gave up and pulled out. Korea is a fuzzy case, but the truce is still holding.
THe problem with terrorism is the same as that of software bugs; how do you PROVE they have been completely defeated? How do we know what our political leaders and intelligence services are telling us about terrorism is correct, and not just a political ploy to get funding or win elections (or suspend or steal elections)?
This is a scary position the US is in. I personally would take the extra risk and be a little less 'secure' from terrorists to keep a tight leash on the gov't.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Today at our school is read-white-blue day. Well, I'm wearing my libertarian T-Shirt of the bill of rights (Void where prohibited by law).
My classes are starting to read the Crucible (by Arthur Miller.) Many see it as an over-hyped play about the salem witch trials. However, it is a chronicle of how our country (always) seems to over-react to things that may be contrary: Witches, Africans, Commies, Aids Victims/Gays, Terorists, [insert other items here].
The discussions so far today (I'm having my prep period now -- Probably I'll get reprimanded by the administration for using the computer for personal use. Side note: The district has gone Big Brother with computers and cameras (we are a small district in a town of 1500 people), and yes, big brother is here watching.) As I was saying...
The discussions today have been remarkable. Students don't seem (at least by their comments - We're talking Juniors in high school here.) to want to live in a society that the government seems to be pushing us.
Take Miller's Comment in the text of his play: And throw in this AP story Anyway, I'm a bastard for talking bad about america at this moment. Hopefully, I'll still have a job tomorrow.
al
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
...is a moment-of-silence post. Please use the below space for your personal remembrances.
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There. Don't you feel much better now?
TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.
The Widow Beemer has copywrited all words having to do with this event formerly known as nineeleven
I am an american, and I mourn for the deaths of our victimized heroes. But I would also like to send my feelings to those in France who have lost loved ones due to flash floods. I can only hope that good will come of all this death and destruction.
I don't know if it is just me.. but anytime I read about terror, two countries are invariably mentioned - Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Are they really innocent?
Everybody's got their own way of dealing with the situation. I wouldn't say that turning off banner ads are saving the world, but it's a nice gesture.
w w. cnn.com/?
On another note, The 'way back machine' at archive.org has archives from September 11th, for those interested. It's interesting to go back to CNN.com and read the reports.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010911203610rn_2/w
Poke around and see what interesting things you can find.
The only other option I can think of is to pull out entirely, give no support at all to either side, and let them kill each other off.
It's that, or the glass parking lot solution that was mentioned above.
SablKnight
not much else to say, really... only when everyone realizes how horrible violence and war is, will we ever begin to see peace.
All pass beyond reach of medicine. None pass beyond the reach of love.
And as far as I'm concerned, captial punishment is more humane than life in prison with no chance of parole. Nothing but you, the four walls around you, and your thoughts.
One of the many reasons that I am opposed to capital punishment.
No, I am not the person you were responding to, just my $0.02
a year ago today, i was in the Grand Canyon, nearly stung by a scorpion that somehow got in my tent. did find out about what happened until 2 days later, coming up one of the trails. i stopped and took a break and someone told me and all i could do was sit there and try to believe what he said. "on vacation", i had a hard time understanding that life could go on, down such treacherous paths.
been reading the comments and thinking about other columns i have read. i don't want to repeat everything that has been said, but to rehash one thing: saying that people are innocent (i am NOT reffering to those who died in the attacks) is incorrect, i think. naive is more appropriate. the U.S. govt(as a puppet for U.S. corporations). uses other means than military might to stomp on other people/countries. as for military power, another poster said that Iraq has enough chemical weapons to destroy the world 3X over. the U.S. has power to do the same. where is the concern about the U.S.? especially since GWB is bent on stopping terrorists wherever they may hide?
how have i changed? no discernible way. the U.S.? other than being a security conscious? i can't figure out how. i haven't seen many more volunteers in the places i volunteer. still trash everywhere. where i live, the same acrimonious political races (only primaries!). i got back from 4 months travelling in S America 5 days ago and it was the same crass commercialism i have seen since i have been able to identify it as such. The people there were friendly, but they have crime and in some places, bombings. Most of the time, no one even thought to mention what happened here.
"To stop the terrorists."
...was the violent protestation of both democracy AND capitalism.
Can someone explain to me why sites have been shut down, and banner ads removed (not just here, but all over the show)? Have the terrorists achieved their goal, and shut down (or even severely limited) capitalism, even if only for one day or a few hours, by flying into the towers a year ago?
So, I just turned 24 last month, and I must say that the distance between 9/11/01 and 9/11/02 has been, without a doubt, the longest year in my life.
The morning of 9/11, I got out of bed and stood next to the bed (I go to work at 5am) just thinking to myself how much I didn't want to go to work that day, and how tired I was. I must have stood there for at least 5 minutes, while my girlfriend slept. I eventually caved in to my own internal arguments and went to work.
I was at work in Seattle, on the 36th floor of an office building downtown when the attacks occurred. I remember being the only person who could get a decent video stream of what was going on, and from the BBC no less. I remember laughing and joking about the attacks at first, but then things became very solemn when my boss came over and said he had friends at WTC.
I then remember leaving at about 9am PDT and then walking in the shadow of the Bank of America Tower (73-stories, which is big for this side of the country). It was an eery feeling going home so early in the day. I watched CNN the rest of the day, and then took the day off the next day to watch more.
I didn't cry about the attacks until I watched a PBS special last night called America Heroes, about two FDNY fire companies who lost a bunch of their brothers in the attacks. I lost it a couple times watching those guys talking about what happened.
I remember going to an AMD Athlon XP event at Westlake center, weeks after the attacks. It was really early in the morning, and there were about 2500 people packed into Westlake Center/Park, all there to win a motherboard/Athlon combo. We weren't there for the marketing spiel. But anyway, as we're standing there, a lone 747 flies overhead. This is a normal thing, but every head in the place was watching it. It was just strange.
I'm so glad it's a year later. It's time to move on. It's time to rebuild our lives and our way of life. It's time to change government so that things like this don't happen in the future.
I can't find a better ending, but I'm just glad that we've survived in the past year. I hope we continue to.
Okay, I see people ripping on Bush left and right about everything that he does, but I pose a question to all of you who would do this:
;)
Could Gore do any better?
I mean, sure, he did invent the internet and all, but that's no big deal
Given that Bush is obviously a mental midget, he seems to actively seek the opinions of people who are far more intelligent. Being able to aknowledge your own stupidity and seek help is a great feat. I feel that it troubled times, as we're in now, what is best for the entire nation is for us to rally our support behind the president. We need to unite as a people and stand up for what we believe as a whole.
-CODEmage
From the ARRL website:
The effort, called the Commemorative 9/11 Net, is being spearheaded by Len Signoretti, N2LEN, of Brooklyn, New York. N2LEN's 440.050 MHz (CTCSS 114.8 Hz) internet-linked repeater covers the Greater New York City area. The linkup will rely on either EchoLink or eQSO Internet software connections. Signoretti said his UHF machine is used as a central hub to coordinate EchoLink and eQSO, so users on each can communicate. The net will attempt to interconnect repeaters in all 50 US states as well as in many other countries around the world.
Amateurs can download free EchoLink or eQSO software from the Internet. While there is no listen-only capability on the Internet, many local VHF and UHF repeaters are expected to take part in the commemorative linkup.
The Commemorative 9/11 Net is scheduled to get under way at 8 PM Eastern Daylight Time (0000 UTC September 12) on the EchoLink and eQSO servers and could run as long as two hours. Haynie (ARRL President) is scheduled to address the cyberspace and RF-linked gathering at around 9 PM EDT.
It's a fundamental fact that the US seems to have missed entirely. Bush just doesn't get it at all, I guess that's why he's now after Iraq, it's a real country that can be defeated by the military, I suppose it's something he can understand, nevermind that it won't have any effect on terrorist networks other than to stir them up.
He's sent in the B52s, the marines, the helicopter gunships, the fighter bombers, the cruise missiles and to give them their dues, they did blow up some $50 tents.
Like sand in the wind, they vanished. But Al Quaeda still exists, still infiltrating countries, still making plans, stockpiling weapons, pushing it's agenda, inspiring the faithful.
Terrorists work from within their target populations. They are the guy down the street. The military is the wrong tool to deal with him and you can't make war on your population.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
cLive ;-)
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
Zacharious(sp) - the 12th hijacker - was detained in Detroit days prior to Sept 11th. He had a laptop that the FBI wanted to analyze but was denied request by the courts. This may have provided the necessary info the prevent these horrible attacks. The government must have the ability to perform necessary intelligence activities to provide adequate protection.
The emphasis on religion instead of spirituality is fairly strong evidence of your narrow-mindedness. IMO, religion as such is totally meaningless. It exists solely to support spirituality. And I do consider atheism a form of spirituality, but I suppose that's debatable. As for stating who lives or dies, I don't necessarily agree with you. I mean obviously it can't be totally arbitrary, but I believe that God understands that we can't just allow people to get away with murdering almost three thousand people. God takes care of His/Her house; we take care of ours.
-Perrin.
Now I want you to go in that bag and find my lightsaber. It's the one that says bad mother-fscker on it.
After much thought, I've realized that my life HAS changed a bit over the past year. After the attacks, I felt the need to simply do *something* positive to counteract all the negative things that were bombarding me. I've written my representatives in congress on various issues. I've gotten involved in my community. I've contributed money to various opensource projects. I tell my family I love them more regularly than before. I VOTED yesterday in the gubernatorial primary election.
Take *ownership* of the problems you see. If you don't like the way things are being handled, do something about it. Of course, I'm not asking that you hurt anyone in the process! But it's YOUR country, not the government's. There are plenty of *positive* things you can do to make a noticeable difference in your next of the woods.
Your lucky the UK government didn't bomb Ireland flat. unlike what the UK and US governments done to Afghanistan and plan to do to Iraq.
those who forget history are doomed to repeat it?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
STATED IN ANOTHER POST.
Certainly this day was a tragic event. And I certainly don't intend to take anything away from the innocent victims and heroes of this day. But the words of Don Henley's "Dirty Laundry" are ringing in my ears about now. I wish the media d respected this day and treat it with the reverence it deserves.
(I listened to an network reporter describe Flight 93 this A.M. "The flaming fireball that left a crater approx 150 feet wide and 40 feet deep...." All he missed is the "...Spewing body parts everywhere reference"
Geeze..Have some respect for the relatives and friends of these people. Sensationalized television at its best.
>>May 6th (1937) The Hindenburg Disaster : 35 dead due engineering error (Hydrogen v. Helium). The Hindenburg had cared hundreds of passangers thousands of miles before this happened.
Actually, it was due to the skin of the dirigible being coated with the equivalent of rocket fuel (iron and aluminum powders). A buildup of static electricity created a spark that jumped from the metal frame to the skin. The rest is history.
To some it may appear that way,
US shot down passenger plane
There's a lot of good stuff on plane hijacking and the locaby bombing.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
The events of 9/11/2001 have very definitely changed my life. I grew up a New Yorker and have lots of family and friends who still live and work in the area. Thus, as I woke up here on the West Coast a year ago today and got a phone call from my girl friend to quick look at the TV, my first thought was of what family members and friends were in those buildings. I could not turn away from that TV screen. I kept hearing in my mind... I must watch this until every detail is forever etched into my mind so that I NEVER FORGET.
I was very fortunate. None of my family was actually in the World Trade Center that day, though one had plans to be there later that day. None of my friends were there either. But there were definite personal connections to those who died that day. The friend of my friend. The sister of my daughter's coach who was a flight attendant on one of the planes. So today I sit at my desk and try to work (I have a new job, I have no sick time, leave, or vacation to take off), I remember what happened to these people.
I also remember how I worried how the opportunists would exploit this tragedy. It seems today that I was rightly concerned. One is still attacked as un-American for questioning the actions of our President. Yet, I do not believe we are any safer today than we were one year ago. Though we very definitely are less free. The "war" continues, with no way of ever knowing when it is over. The battles are secret. The enemy unknown. We get told that we must kill people in Iraq to make the world safe, and while I do believe there is some risk there, I do not buy the argument that there is any relationship between Iraq and their quest for new weaponry and the tragedy in NY and DC... certainly less than that between oil money going to the Middle-Eastern countries. I see exploitation of this tragedy at every turn. Commercial. Political. Ethical. Religious. Everyone is trying to take advantage of the moment, of the desire to do something, anything, to respond to it when there IS no response that makes any sense.
We need to see all of the evidence of those responsible for the events of one year ago. We need to see all of the actions taken in response. We need to respect the founding principals and freedoms of our unique nation and realize that it is easy to be free during good times, it is harder during bad, yet it is the consistency of freedom during all times that makes our nation the United States of America.
"DO NOT FORGET"
I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"
Now I know why.
I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"
Now I know why.
Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.
On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.
On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.
I will not be manipulated.
I will not pretend to understand.
I will not forget.
I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.
I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."
I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."
And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."
I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.
I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.
I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.
I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.
I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.
I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines.
I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.
I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?
There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"
I will force myself to:
-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.
I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"
Now I know.
We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.
-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.
Keep this going until every living American has read it and memorized it so we don't make the same mistake again.
Both.
When I was a small child, I was taught to not approach the cute little bear cubs that would sometimes wander close to my parent's vacation home in the spring time. Yes, it was our property, and yes, bears can be destructive, but the cub was doing what cubs do, which, in and of itself, was not harming anything. Mama bear, of course, was expected to be close behind.
So it is when dealing with the affairs of others. OBL attacked the U.S. ostensibly because of American presence in Saudi Arabia, which he repeatedly denounced.
Executive Summary: When your government, put in place either through your winning electoral choice, or your acceptance of a democratic process pisses someone off, you increase your risk of dying.
Right or wrong, heinous or noble, justified or not -- such words vulnerable to the winds of propaganda matter didly squat to your corpse rotting at the bottom of a pile of rubble.
So, you must chose carefully, those acts in which you, or your representatives engage, for you will be faced with the burden of defending against their consequences. This does not mean that one should cower and hide in the face of those who disagree with what you believe are your rights, but it does mean you should pick wisely when chosing what's worth risking death at the hands of those you enrage.
Somehow, I have a hard time believing any sane American who values his or her freedoms would accept that U.S. interests in Saudi Arabia were worth the loss of some 3000 lives or the liberty-suspending measures purported to to be able to prevent such a loss in the future.
Sometimes, it IS better to let the bully have his corner of the sandbox -- if you're willing to fight him lest he cross some arbitrary line in the dirt, let him pick the line and see if it is all that unreasonable. Then you can defend both your turf and the moral high ground.
P.S. You know, as an aside, I chuckle about the semantic hack OBL pulled: the U.S. can't declare "war" war against an individual, only a nation, and so can't legally muster the "war-mode" enabling powers it otherwise could. Yet it clearly faces a situation that any sane person would clearly interpret as an "act of war". Heh, doublespeak bites the usual government mouthpiece on the ass. I'll leave it to the gentle reader to decide whether that's adding insult to injury or poetic justice, dripping in bloody irony.
You could've hired me.
May 4, 1970: US National Guard troops open-fire on unarmed college students, killing four. Not a natural disaster or engineering malfunction. This was mass-murder.
> I think America is underestimated because
> outsiders view freedom of religion, freedom of
> speech, tolerance of different opinions,
> and open debate as a sign of disunity.
> Americans agree to disagree, and are
> passionate about defending the
> freedoms that allow such diversity.
As a New Zealander (an 'outsider') living in the US, two thoughts come to mind when I here patriotic rhetoric like this..
The first is that Americans talk a lot about their supposed freedom and democracy, but to my experience I am no freer than back home or in most European countries, and the government is definitely less democratic.
To me there is little 'open debate' in America on the issues that really matter. Like why in a supposed 'democracy' and such a multi-ethnic society most of the Govt is made up of rich middle aged to elderly white men. In other countries such as NZ the govt although dominated by the same but seems much more representative - our last two Prime Ministers have been women and we have had a Rastafarian and a transsexual as members of Parliament. In the US why is it that the government is so obviously controlled by big business, and noone is asking what can be done about it? What is wrong with the process that can result in an obvious simpleton like George Bush becoming President? Where is the 'open debate' you are talking about, it's certainly not in the mainstream press.
One thing stifling open debate in American seems to be a very misguided sense of partriotism. Why is that people who question the Bush administration's foreign policy are often called
'un-American' (or 'partisan'). Shouldn't criticism of the Government's policy be a *healthy* thing. I know that if you used the term 'anti-New Zealand' back at home to describe anyone people would just laugh at you. Back in Stalinist Russia being 'anti-Russian' was one of the worst crimes imaginable, but to my knowledge the concept doesn't exist in countries outside the US. Wouldn't a real patriot (a person who really loves America) want to fix the things that are wrong?
(As an aside the level of blind patriotism in America is quite scary to an outsider like myself. Definitely a meme-set that is very much like religion, taught to children early (pledge of Allegence etc) and subtly enforced via the media).
America seems do a lot of dubious things in the world in the name of protecting their freedom and democracy. How exactly was bombing Afganistan protecting America's freedom? You can do anything you want in the name of protecting your freedom!
It is that outsiders unestimate American's desire to protect their freedom, or is that they underestimate the American people's ability to be fooled by their Govt into thinking that that is what they are doing?
Since no one else has stepped forward yet, let me be the first to say thank you for your efforts.
Even though your servers are often used to express opinions that you disagree with, or even find revolting.
Even though there are probably many times when it doesn't seem worth the effort.
Even though you and your staff sometimes seem to be the most criticized people on here, after Bill Gates anyways.
Keep up the good work. We all appreciate it, even if it isn't said very often.
At least mafia-owned pizzarias make excellent pizza. Compare to Bill Gates.
As the events that happened shocked the world, and as most of us were to stunned to do anything productive, the /. staff busted there backs to keep us informed. /. readers and posters, loaded there system with posts of sorrow, rage, and confusion, they found ways to get around the technicall problems, to keep us updated.
/., but I will always remember who kept me informed.
/., I salute you.
While we, the
I, like many readers, have had my issues with
To the staff at
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I turned on the radio and heard of the second tower hit. Then it was off to a television for the rest of the day.
(This sig intentionally left blank)
Unfortunately, the respect for the loss of a year ago today, will be overshadowed by the prospects of what will begin tomorrow.
Bush seems to be using today to retouch the wound and regenerate the anger so that he can begin his war with Iraq. Currently, he admits there are no direct ties to 9/11, although he is certainly searching. The timing of his speech to the UN should not be lost on anyone.
Most of the evidence he is using is based on a rationale that since Iraq may have been trying to acquire weapons previously and that we haven't beat up on him in a while to stop them, well they must have been doing more. By that logic, the US can go after just about any country in the world in the name of terrorism. Russia and China have these weapons and now that they have direct connections with Iran / Iraq, they by definition support terrorists, right?
While public opinion can be drummed up in the name of patriotism, the US will continue going to war. It is after all, the only economic policy that the Bush family knows.
. . . it is the ONLY time the streets and sidewalks are clear of dog shit.
Not trolling, just speaking the truth. In some cities they have a Arab or African riding around on a little moped with sort of vacuum cleaner on it that he can use to suck up the shit, and it goes into a little transparent container so everyone can see it as he drives around.
If you travel from Dover to France and South, man you can tell you are getting closer to Africa every step of the way.
I understand your point. I, too, think sometimes memorials can be overdone. There's one thing to remember here. Even though you were one of the ones most directly affected, you are not alone. Everyone in the country was affected by the loss of innocence that results from being attacked for the first time on the soil of the contiguous states. Thousands of people lost family members. Millions (probably) lost friends and neighbors and co-workers. That kind of pain does not go away lightly.
There are always going to be jerks who try to profit off the emotions of others. Live with it. That doesn't mean that the memorials are worthless. It's a milestone for us to examine how the event changed us and decide if we like what we find.
Ben
Am I the only one who gets that feeling in their stomach every time slashdot is down or is slow to respond. I mean, besides that fact that it's delaying my fix, but that there could be a lot of sudden traffic that could be indicative of another major event? Every time I click to load or reload slashdot and it is delayed, I get a little worried. Am I the only one who does this?
mp3's are only for those with bad memories
I find it ironic that some of the most educated people still believe in some sort of fantasy that everyone died to protect freedom in the US. What freedom? The freedom to wreak havok in most of the known world by our military over the last century? Get your facts straight people. Now our government wants to go charging into Iraq, I guess none of us learned our lesson from 9/11/01? We should stop f*ing with the world and realize that they will hurt is back.
... has anyone that was _not_ a terrorist or at least suspicious ever been detained because of these laws? Has there ever been any false arrests? I doubt it...
Most of these laws state clearly that you must be suspect of actual "terrorism." So unless you are actually doing suspicious things (such as DoS, domestic terrorism, and the like), there is little to worry about (unless you think the US will turn into some kind of Nazi\Fascist _just_ because of this invasion of privacy.... I think not).
I'm amazed at the yellow-bellied reposnses I see here today. You're desperately hoping that if you just extend an olive branch to these people that they'll leave you alone.
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the flag icon for this subject only has 12 stripes?
People seem to have an amazing amount of trouble with this... I've seen several flag stickers on cards that have 14 stripes, have the stripes in the wrong order, have a totally tweaked aspect ratio, and so on.
Those of you who remember the early days of microcomputers might remember a fellow named Tom Pittman, who developed Tiny BASIC and made it available dirt-cheap for several platforms... this in contrast to a whiny young Bill Gates, who at the time was harassing computer hobbiests (such as those in the famous Homebrew Computer Club) to cough up unreasonable amounts of money for his BASIC interpreter, which, in some respects, wasn't as good as Tiny. Later, Pittman became known for writing a HyperTalk compiler for the Mac and authoring "The Art of Compiler Design: Theory and Practice" --- still a damn fine book, if you can find a copy.
g us.html
What does this have to do with 9/11? Less well known is that Pittman is a devout Christian, who's spent a good chunk of these last few years living off his savings to develop automated Bible translation software. He's an interesting person, and whether or not you subscribe to the Christian belief system, his thoughts on the events of 9/11 make for some thought-provoking reading:
http://homepage.mac.com/BibleTrans/IslamDif.htm
For those who might wonder why a bright fellow like Pittman subscribes to Christian beliefs (something so unfashionable here on Slashdot), the following may be illuminating:
http://homepage.mac.com/ittybittycomputers/Areopa
Sorry, I am not going to fall for your little tactic. You originally said
"Whether you are christian, muslim, jew or otherwise, the common thread is that man does not determine who lives and dies, god does.".
First of all, "otherwise" means everything else, which doesn't necessarily mean religion. You should be more clear.
Second, I don't know of any religion that says "man decides who lives and dies", nor one that says "god decides who lives and dies". So by posing a false question, you are assured to get the answer you want. You are putting the ideals of religions into your own words, to suit your own purposes. But don't feel bad, it has been done for generation upon generation, you aren't the first. You have PRECISELY illustrated my point. Thank you.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Osama ibn Laden's HOME PAGE HERE!!
Eat at Joe's.
I think the Washington Times put it best when they compared 1 year after September 11th to 1 year after December 7th, 1942:
Link
---Quote---
Nobody was ready for "healing" on December 7, 1942, and "closure" was the last thing anybody wanted.
America, on the first anniversary of that other date that lives in infamy -- often the benchmark by which September 11 is judged -- wanted blood and vengeance, without apology.
No flowers, no teddy bears, and no exploration of the national angst. No presidential admonitions to think of Shinto as a religion of peace, no appeals to understand the frustrations that drove the misunderstood Nazis to rape Poland and bomb London.
---Quote---
Does anyone else think Bush's support of an invasion into Iraq is a ploy to divert public attention from the fact that we still haven't caught Bin Ladden? Seems to me no other country supports such an attack. I can't find justification for the US to attack another country that hasn't made a hostile move towards the US. Possible?
Hey! Why stop there? Lets just nuke EVERYONE who isn't us! You guys are being absured, we can't just nuke a small nation because a faction that takes residence their pisses us off and kills a fuck load of our people. Also, the use of nuclear weapons has an adverse effect on the WORLD. Personally, I don't care who or why, but I'm ALWAYS against using nuclear weapons on earth.
Even if I say something insightfull or inteligent, it doens't matter cause I'm an ass.
I'm not thrilled with many of the actions Bush Inc. has taken since the events of last September, but if "erosion of rights" was the first thing you thought about last year, before the horror of the event and the massive loss of life, you are one selfish, heartless S.O.B.
IMHO, of course.
Not so long ago I thought that I believed in the Death Sentence for appropriate offenders. Eventually I started to figure out that it is cheaper to put someone in prison for life, than to put them to death. So I changed my mind based on those thoughts.
Then came Sept 11th, and with a numbness in my heart I watched the buildings burn and fall.
I watched patriotism in our country be reborn anew...and also watched our country march off to war.
We were angry, we were hurt, we were confused, and we were saddened. Things like this should not happen in anywhere. Ideally humans would rise above their petty differences based on race, religion, creedo, and fears. However we don't change that fast...and too many find it easy to follow charismatic leaders whom they feel give them a purpose in life, rather than seeking that purpose on their own.
I don't like the fact that my country went out and bombed the ever living hell out of a mudhole of a country. The people there, most of whom are god (allah) fearing individuals, already endure much suffering due to civil war, and religious intolerance at the hand of a government.
The people who attacked us are fanatics. Fanatics incapable of seeing past their own actions and the consequences that occur world wide. By their actions, they brought out some of the ugliness in people. Assaults on people who 'look' like muslims, defacing of holy places. It turned us into the muslim haters that they wanted us to be. Our media playing up on the attacks, and the displays of horror rather than the displays of goodness and kindness that came out of the rubble.
Anymore I'm not sure what to think, other than our Government needs to do a better job with foreign relations and tolerance, and that us Americans need to learn a little humility.
Living in a free country comes at the cost of security. The two do not mesh well together, and the knee-jerk public tends to think about the immediate concerns rather than how this will affect them in the future.
wake up. there is no end to the evil that successfully corrupted public officials are capable of. they will surveil anyone with munitions OR an attitude. or anyone they think they can later make appear to have had munitions OR an attitude. last i checked, the usa had made it standard practice to deny private counsel to accused. that's just major, wrong on every level. so, before i visit the united states again, i've got to learn handtalking. crap. i hate learning.
united states nuclear device terrorist bioweapon encryption cocaine korea syria iran iraq columbia cuba
You know, I'm personaly tired of people making such a "thing" out of 9/11. But I ahve to say, I honestly appreciate what OSDN did with the banner ads. I checked slashdot a little after midnight and it almost made me cry when I say the banner ad. I'm glad someone saw it as a time when they should take a step back from everyday "grabbing for the cash" and honor those who died, those who sacraficed, and those who where close to them. Seeing as how I was a 911 dispatcher stuck in the middle of all this, and a volunteer firefighter in eastern PA, I can truly appreciate it. I feel for my brothers and sister who lost their lives. I feel for the innocents who died. This has truely led me to believe that there are some people, and busineses, around who care about the world. Let us all, please, observe a moment of silence, again for those who lost their lives durring this tragedy.
But, at the same time, let's not get caught up in the morbid retrospective. Let's remember all the good that's happend in the last year. Personaly, I met my lovely wife. On top of that, I'm proud to annoucnce we're expecting the arrival of our son.
It's been hard for many of us. Let this be a great example of how the american spirit lives though adversity. I live every day knowing that my 'brothers' (and sisters) died in the line of duty. I honor them every day by living my life to the fullest, as I know they would want. I suggest everyone do the same.
That is all I have to say at this time. Be well. Be strong. And bless.
Joe Gombarick
"Perl 6 gives you the big knob" -- Larry Wall
self evident - ani difranco
Yes, the fact that so many people died sucks big time, but it doesn't change the fact that we have a moron for a president and big oil running this country. Take a look at this article
over at the BBC.
I plan on doing two things today:
1. Not turning on the TV for any reason whatsoever
2. Giving some cash to the EFF
I may make those actions my annual observance of "Patriot Day". Someone's got to look out for the public -- they don't even know they are under attack by their own government.
You're not the only one sick of the knee-jerk, draconian jingoism which is destroying our liberties. It's just an unpopular thing to say. The worst part? Last night it dawned on me that the terrorists have already won: we're a scared nation, attacking our own citizenry by way of "defense".
Anyway, I'm sad about what happened but enough is enough. I'm as proud as anyone to be American, and I love my country dearly, but something actually constructive needs to be done. And if I hear the word "Homeland" one more goddam time...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
...and it weeds out nihilist losers who don't think it is important to maximize the chances for their genetic legacy.
I agree with other responses to your comment. Additionally, you don't need to take 'God' quite so literally, either. So you believe in karma or nirvana or what have you - fine. I believe the original posters intent was to direct you to consult your spirituality, whatever that might be. And as another poster has mentioned, atheism isn't spirituality, its the lack thereof. If you're happy with that, far be it from me to disagree with that - to each their own. However, even atheists typically have some sort of philosophy to follow, be it Kant or Socrates or any number of other philosophers. Since spirituality is very much akin to philosophy (consider it a philosophy of living), reflect on your philosophy of life, if you are indeed an atheist.
Cheers.
What like they cleaned up the mess in Afghanistan half of the UK flattened and the government replaced with a US appointee great.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I am buddhist, and I don't believe in a god. There are some Religions without gods.
http://www.BackYardParty.com
Passenger 57 and Air Force One
Very therapeutic.
It is, it is, a glorious thing to be a Pirate King!
Very true. In the same light, let's look at the issue at hand - Bin Ladin and his pyromaniac fremen did not just decide to set alight the World Trade Centers, you know. We take your advice, look at the context, and see that the reason why they are attacking the US might have something to do with the fact that their whole lives and those of their friends, family and everyone they have ever met has been affected for the worse because of American policies in the region where they live.
I look at the issue objectively, and this is what I see. Not that I care one bit for the Arabs and their "causes" to kill thousands of civilians. Neither do I care for Americans who had to kill thousands of Afghan civilians because they got hit by the terrorism they had been funding and lashing onto other nations for so long.
Sorry if this is a little harsh on the day of remembering the people who perished. I feel for them as I feel for the people of Hiroshima and Bosnia, as I feel for those who died in Nazi concentration camps. Still, you guys need to wake up from this "they are evil, we are good" crap and realize that it's your state's own clumsy meddling in international politics that turned to bite you this time. Yes, I agree completely that things need to be seen in their context. And this is the context created by the USA, with its merits and its perils.
Summary of evidence against Osama bin Laden in 9/11 terror attacks
Chronology of Tuesday, September 11, 2001
While I expect to get mod'ed down as a troll, which I am NOT try to do, I feel as though I have to vent.
[Vent Mode: On]
First let me say, Get Over It People!
Here is why:
1) The WTC tragedy happened a year ago, our lives have changed, and the WTC events are regrettable. Many people lost their lives and loved ones, but when can we let go of the past and let the dead rest in peace.
2) Life continues, we need to look forward to what is ahead and attempt to prevent these things from happening in the future.
3) Why are we so obsessed with this one event and not the other teribble things which have happened in our collective past? We, as a nation, do not make such a big deal out of remembering any one of the following: The Hindenberg Diaster in NJ, The Kent State shooting(s), The death of JFK in Dallas, The Challenger Disaster, Apollo 13 comming home, the list goes on and on. So, why are we making such a big deal about the Sept 11th attacks? Could it be that the national mas media outlets are having a slow news day(?), or worse are manipulating us to getting whipped up about this event.
Come on people, Life is full of trials and tribulations. We need to deal with them and let them go, NOT get whipped up everytime the mass media makes a big fuss about events which happened last year!
Hopefully, today will put an end to the mourning, and and bring a new determination to look to the future, and stop reliving the past.
[Rant Mode: Off]
Thank You for listening.
SSIA
To the people who lost loved ones: all the best and I hope you'll find the strength to move on.
That aside, the whole thing is getting on my nerves. I'm living in The Netherlands, Europe and our press tends to show us different news than what's just on CNN. And there is a lot more to tell than the 'We are the best' stuff, aired on CNN and other patriotic channels.
- Widows of foreign workers who died in the massacre on 9/11/2001, will be deported out of the country. Because they were allowed to stay in the USA due to their husbands job, because that husband is dead now, the widows have to leave... pronto. Excuse me?
- Remember all the innocent people still in jail, ONE YEAR after the disaster, without a trial. At least 500 men are still held in custody without a trial or accusation that they committed a crime and that they will be trialed at a later date. Nothing, they are just held into custody. No offence, but isn't that the same system 3rd world dictators use to keep the people doing what they want? It's definitely NOT part of any reasonable definition of 'democracy' and 'freedom'.
- The CIA hasn't found any evidence against Saddam Hussein concerning Al Quayda. Remember: the laws the USA government pushed through congress after Sept. 11th, were for the war on terror (which is understandable). However, using these same laws, the current USA government is trying to use sept.11th and the results of that horrible crime to go after Saddam. You might think: "I don't care what reason they use", but that's the beginning of the end: if a certain government with a lot of guns (the USA) starts to dislike another government, it shouldn't result in instant war, there should be a certain control in place. That's now gone, due to the US PATRIOT act and other shabby laws.
There are a lot of countries where people suffer due to the crimes committed by the governments of these countries, however the USA doesn't do a damn thing about THAT, like a lot of countries in Africa. (except selling guns of course). Let sept.11 be a landmark of how bad foreign policy can turn out and let it be a starting point to work on a solid WORLD where people understand eachother, instead of just kill whatever isn't compatible to a certain christian-right-wing policy cooked up in the white-house.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
...ask for me at the bureau for perception management for the greater glory of Allah.
Screw world peace. What the hell is world peace worth when radicals feel free to attack innocent civilians? Justice, si, not peace, is what is needed. Without justice, there can be no peace.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Here's a piece of an article I found. Just follow the link to read the rest and the comments people have made.
~enjoy
OSAMA BIN LADEN WAS BAD APPLE,
JUST LIKE JIM JONES
http://www.odwyerpr.com/0905osama.htm
Saudi Arabia says it is a full partner in President Bush's "war on terror," and a victim of terrorism, according to a document that Patton Boggs has distributed to staffers on Capitol Hill.
The Embassy's "Background FAQ" deals with "hot button" issues such as "Saudi Support for Osama bin Laden," "Alleged Saudi Funding for Terrorism," "Saudi Freezing of Assets," "Saudi Education System and Anti-Americanism," "Saudi Arabia and Suicide Bombers," and "Stability in Saudi Arabia."
Here are highlights:
Re: bin Laden. "Osama bin Laden is a dissenter who has taken the side of evil. His citizenship was revoked in the early 1990s on account of his irresponsible acts and he remains unpopular among our citizens. As a nation, we are horrified by his actions and we reject what he and his followers stand for. They are deviants and criminals whose actions we strongly reject. People must understand that we are also victims of Osama bin Laden's terrorist acts."
Re: terror funding. "The Crown Prince has said unequivocallyâ"âNo honorable man would accept terrorism.' Saudi Arabia does not support or contribute to terrorism. We never have, and we never will. Terrorism is against our religion and culture, and we have been victims of it for the past four decades. We monitor all financial transactions to ensure that no money goes to evildoers."
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
The banner ad HTML code includes the following:
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I was wondering if the image changed according to what time it was, or...
In my opinion, this is a bit myopic and shouldn't be given such a high score.
We're talking about people who think it's OK to kill thousands of civilians and actively seek to do so. This isn't just "misguided," it's just plain wrong, but these people have all but been programmed to think this way.
I'm not trying to start something nasty here, but there have been over a thousand Civilian deaths in Afganistan so far, and some reports say up to three thousand.
You keep mentioning "these people" and how they all deserve death for "cheering" others death... Do you, in retrospect, also deserve death for cheering their death? One has to be very careful not to become just what they are fighting agasint.
Not to mention, if the US armies sweep across the globe, killing all leaders that bush sees as "evil", we're going to make a lot more people hate us.. childen whos parents have died in anti-terrorist operations, civilians that got in the way.. etc. Its a perfect way to ensure future terrorists. Personally I'd like to know real reasons on why the USA is so hated by so many people across the globe, and don't tell me its becasue "they hate our freedom", its a wonder every time i see GWB say that with a straight face.
I think this whole issue is a Lot more complex than having a simple "kill them all" solution. If we are supposed to be the most advanced and cultured society in the history of the earth, i'm sure we can do better than that.
I may be modded down for this by some who think a second opinion is a bad thing, but i can't help but post this here. This is what i feel and i beleive its valid.
On the anniversary of September, 11
2001, I want to talk about the difference between the victims onboard
the first three airliners and the heroes onboard flight 93. What was
the difference? Why did the people on flight 93 fight back? Why did
the people on the other planes just sit and die?
The answer comes down to communication and how knowledge forced the
passengers to change their survival strategy. Everyone wants to
live. Until 9/11/01 the best known strategy for surviving an airline
hijacking was to sit in your seat, cooperate with the hijackers, and
wait it out. That strategy worked because until 9/11/01 hijackers were
trying to get hostages to trade for concessions and publicity. But,
that changed on 9/11/01. On that day the hijackers wanted airliners to
use as weapons. And, they counted on the passengers sitting in their
seats and being cooperative to allow the plan to work.
On flight 93, the passengers fought back. Why? Because they knew that
three other hijacked airliners had been used as weapons and everyone
on board them had died. When they knew they were onboard a weapon
their survival strategy changed and the scope of their survival
strategy also changed. Their choices no longer affected only their own
lives. Now, theei actions also affected the lives of hundreds or thousands
of people on the ground.
Given the choice of sitting quietly in their seats and waiting for
death or fighting and having a chance to live, they chose to fight for
their lives and the lives of the people on the ground. They knew that
if they won they would live and so would an unknown number of people
on the ground who were targeted by the weapon they were flying on. They
also knew that they could die and still save people on the ground. At
that point the correct thing to do, the moral thing to do, the action
that saved the most lives, was to fight. They fought.
We that given the same choice many people through
out history chose to do nothing and died as cowards and victims. Those
who chose to fight we deservedly call heroes.
But all that misses the whole point. The reason that the heroes of
flight 93 fought is that they knew they had to fight or die. They knew
because there was an air to ground phone on the back of the chair in
front of them and they used them to find out what was going on. It was
free, unregulated, communication that made the difference. It was that
basic freedom to communicate that let them know they needed to
fight. It was that same that let us know they did fight. It was their right to be
informed that let them become heroes.
As people who use the Internet, the most free and open communication
media every developed, we are honor bound to fight. To fight any
attempt to reduce the freedom to communicate. To fight to spread the
right of freedom of information and communication to everyone in the
world.
Flight 93 proved to the world that free people given accurate
knowledge of their situation will make heroic choices and take heroic
actions. Are we heroes who can make the same choices? Will we fight to
protect and extend the right to communicate that allowed the heroes of
flight 93 to become heroes?
I hope so. I believe so. Let's roll.
Stonewolf
And you're worried about being humane why?
The only reason I oppose the death penalty is because it's hypocritical to say "don't kill people or we'll kill you". That is the government putting themselves in the place of god, and personally I don't have any need for god to begin with, in holy or governmental form.
On the other hand, "don't kill people or we'll remove you from society" is a completely fair thing to do, and not at all hypocritical. Of course the counter-argument is that we lock people up for kidnapping and detaining people "unlawfully" but hey, you have to do something with them, and if one of the basic arguments is that killing people is wrong, it seems ridiculous to kill people as punishment.
I don't think you necessarily have to put them in a cell by themselves for the rest of their lives, but you do have to lock them up for the rest of their lives. If you kill them, you give them surcease; My vote is to put them in a big cage surrounded (At a distance) by video walls displaying scenes of the suffering 24/7.
If you're feeling humane, unlike the offenders, you can turn the sound off at night.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Who do you think is the largest exporter of oil to the United States?
Its not who you think it is.
most people would say Saudi, Iran or Kuwait.
WRONG.
The largest exporter of oil to the United States is Mexico. Followed by Columbia and Venezuala. Ever heard of the FTAA? Wonder why the Americans seem to want it more than anyone else?
Oh and lets look down the list to.. NUMBER SIX- IRAQ. Isnt that funny? And who is doing the importing of oil from Iraq? a little company called Haliburtant, chaired by our honourable friend Dick Chaney.
Is anyone else finding this odd?
look it up. http://www.google.com
and while you're at it, look up the Carlyle Group.
EDUCATE YOURSELF. Sometimes what you dont know is staring at you right in the face, you've just been traind not to look.
I leave you with this:
We all know why the US went to war with Iraq. They've told us quite often, because Iraq invaded Kuwait.
But why did Iraq invade Kuwait?
look it up. It might surprise you.
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
Write on!
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Thank you, OSDN and Slashdot for this small little rememberance. Thank you, for the heroes and tragic victims of the four flights and on the ground at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. And most of all, for the brave First Responders who gave up everything to save as many as they could. We will never forget. NEVER!
Last year on this day, as normal, we were conversing on IRC on our company IRC server and had recorded the channel. Today, as our way of remembering the event, we have replayed the IRC logs from last year in real time. It has been very moving.
How soon we forget.
The U.S.'s war in Afghanistan has killed thousands of civilians. War against Iraq would probably kill an order of magnitude more Iraqis. Where does that fall on your moral scale?
You think your "objectivity" grants you license to illuminate the real reasons for the attacks on Sept. 11. You suggest that American foreign policy is so nefarious, so wicked that two gigantic stuctures and thousands of innocent civilians should die as some sort of repayment.
Remember that you're living in a nation run by imperfect humans who make diplomatic decisions every day. Where are you from anyway? Think about your largest city, and the two largest buildings in that city. Now, in your mind, bring those buildings down and crush the thousands working there, one by one, in the process. Think about all the funerals for the EMS workers, all the unknown heroes who will perish in that single act of "justice". Now, remember, you deserved it. Go down to ground zero wearing a plaquard reading "Our Own Foreign Policy Did This. It's Our Fault." I have no doubt your fellow countrymen would give you more than a black eye.
Any suggestion that unknown or plainly obvious foreign policy decisions led to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and that these attacks were somehow justified because of such corrupt foreign policy, is completely assanine.
Don't be too eager to deal out death, but do it if you have to. Gandalf deals out his share of death.
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
The "suckers" who crashed planes into WTC & Pentagon were privileged, elite, and college-educated.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
Seems to be the point of the poster was that Japan had a long history of agressive & atrocious behavior which stopped soon after some very firm and significant pressure was applied in the form of several megatons of explosives.
It's a good point to note: tit for tat leads to ongoing conflict, while massive retaliation generally gets the message across more succinctly and saves lives in the long run.
Frightening, yes, but historically accurate.
So hear we go... American media chooses to acknowledge an American tragedy and we get to see, hear, and read about how Americans don't know/care about the rest of the world. Blame the Americans.
As if that wasn't a deep enough insult, knee jerk liberals from (mostly) Europe and America trot out their lists of grievances about America and Americans and, with their simple-minded rhetoric, try to attribute every last malaise around the globe to either American neglect ("How come the Americans didn't come to European/Indian/etc. aid during the recent flooding/earthquake/etc.?) or malevolence (everything from slavery/Jim Crow at home to Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, etc. abroad.) Blame the Americans.
(BTW, where was the European and Indian help during America's floods of the early 1990s and the drought of the late 1990s? San Francisco earthquake? Other natural disasters? We don't expect it... but don't expect it of us, either...)
Certainly, the American government has not always acted with the noblest of intentions. However, I submit to you that the governments belonging to every America-basher are just as guilty for creating the mess the world is in. Like its neighbor to the south, Canada has a long history of opressing its native peoples and is only recently starting to make serious amends. The Australians have not fared any better with the indiginous people of their land. In addition, both countries, along with the UK, routinely back and participate in U.S. sponsored activities. The UK, which is is America's closest ally next to Canada, has helped create a long standing and violent conflict with the Irish. For their part, the Irish (and the deplorable Irish-American hypocrits who support them) have launched bloody attacks against the British for decades. Can you please demonstrate how to behave peacefully to those brutal, war-mongering Americans?
But the grievances against the English speaking world are relatively minor when compared with the violent histories belonging to Germany and Italy. From the Kaiser to Hitler and Mussolini to political assasinations, these two countries have long engaged in violent outbursts, frequently masked by a veneer of civility and/or order. Blame the Americans for financing Saddam Huessein earlier in his career? Fine. But, you might find some interesting European links -- especially in Germany. France is not much better: Like the UK, Germany, and Italy, they were participants in colonialism across Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. France continued to support despots in its former colonies long after giving up its territorial possessions. And, a special place is reserved in Hell for all the Belgians, who were especially cruel colonialists in Africa. Africa still reels from the harshness and brutality of European colonialism. Many of the grievances in the Middle East have roots in European colonialism, as well. But, of course the problems in the Iraq, Saudia Arabia, Israel, and Palestine are, of course, all the creation of the terrible Americans. How convenient. Blame the Americans.
The world outside Europe and America? The Russians (Soviets) were second only to the Europeans in their hunger for conquest. As if the repression, abuse, and death brought to their own people weren't sufficient, the Russians took it upon themselves to spread their cruelty to Eastern Europe and beyond, also touching the Middle East. In fact, many of the problems in Afghanistan stem from the Russian invasion. But, better to blame the Americans.
What of the noble Arabs, victims of the terrible Israelis? How about we start with things like democracy? Please show me one -- all I'm asking for is one -- Arab democracy. Okay, you can't do it. If most Arab countries treat their male constituents as second class citizens, then, how do they treat foreign nationals and females? In many cases as slaves and indentured servents. And, for all the anti-Israeli rhetoric flying about in forums such as this, it might be wise to point out that Israel is the only nation in the region that has enough confidence in their constituents to allow freely elected government. These are just a few of many less than savory reasons that many Arab states would like to eradicate the Israelis and their government -- equality and democracy. But, it's a much more honorable course of action to acquiesce to Arab states and, specifically, to the Palestinians. Sure, attack Israel all you want. Go ahead, create another monarchy or theocracy and suppress your citizens. It's all for the good of peace, isn't it. Then, blame the Americans for allowing the creation of cruel, repressive monarchies and theocracies.
The Chinese and Japanese have long traditions of peaceful and orderly philosophies like Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. Both countries also share long histories of conquest of neighboring regions. No country treated its WWII prisoners more cruelly than the Japanese. Slavery, rape, torture, you name it. An attack on the U.S., which had not even entered the war? And, what of the Chinese and the repression at Tiananmen Square? What of Falun Gong? Tuva? Mongolia? Tibet? Blame the Americans.
Africa? A list of nations sounds like a Who's Who of brutality: Liberia, Libya, South Africa (during apartheid), Nigeria, Angola, Somalia, Congo, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Rwanda, Hutus, Tutsis...
India? Care to discuss clashes with Pakistan or Sri Lanka? Like the problems in Africa, this may be the legacy of European colonialsm, but blame the Americans, anyway.
My point is this: You can't blame the Americans for everything -- although it doen't stop some individuals from trying. From time to time, American policy may indeed be suspect. But, so are the policies of just about every nation of the world. (We might be able to give a pass to Bhutan. I'm not sure whether they have any serious transgressions in their recent history.) For every time you point out a valid American transgression, look to your own country and people as well. For every time you congratulate your country, look deeper and examine the activities of other nations (yes, Americans, too) with the same measure. When you chose to blindly blame America and Americans for various problems, you obscure the facts and often absolve tyrants -- and you fail to get at the truth of the matter. We're all in this together. We all create the good and bad of this world. And, for all your problems, don't blame the Americans.
or agents of the state. ..... then the owrkers of the WORLD TRADE centres were agents of the state not civilians.
If my millarry target is globalisation, capatilism
Perhaps I should have been more clear with my use of the word 'God'. I tend to use the word to mean more than most people think. I am a Taoist, and I do believe in God, just not God in the normal sense. Buddhists tend to be the same way, correct? I admit my knowlege of Buddhism is fairly limited. Most of it I have gathered from the writings of the Dalai Lama. If I remember correctly, doesn't Buddmism teach that God is kindness, and we should all strive to be more Godly? If that is the case, then I believe my original statement is still true.
Ne Quid Nimis - All things in moderation
New Hampshire State motto.
One of the few states that remember that small government is better, and what the constitution is all about (though Vermont has us beat.)
You are a coward. Better to die a free man than live as a slave.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
You know I'm soooo tempted to blow you out of the water with that one..
Here goes,
if your 'Laisez faire capitalism' state what do you do about law and order, is that run on a free market too?
3000 dead. 6000 dead. 4600 dead. 5500 dead.
3000 people died in the WTC attack.
6000 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan since the beginning of the "War on Terrorism"
4600 children died of measles each week in Africa.
5500 Africans die of AIDS each day.
Cry not for the rich white men who died in the towers.
Cry for the deaths we have the power to stop, but simply do nothing instead. Otherwise you will drown in your own hypocrisy.
Please, stop telling that America is so great. America is every bit as stupid, selfish, jealous, paranoid and incompetant as any other country. And it's considerable more brutal, repressive and intolerant than many.
I am so tired of this bullshit. The USA is by far the best behaved super power the world has ever known. Anyone who claims any different is blinding themselves to the real truths of history. You tell me one world power, who at their prime, was better behaved than the USA? Not one other country comes even remotely close. No it isn't a perfect country and yes many of its policies suck ass, but your claim is completely without merit.
We has a world have come a long ways in the last 50 years... a long ways. We still have a long ways to go.
--- I do not moderate.
and that is that personally, i'm disgusted that there's still people in this world that think it's acceptable to kill.
well, after reading that and laughing, there's no doubt: i'm going to hell.
but at least there will be funny people there to keep me company.
By your same reasoning, President Bush is also privileged, elite, and college-educated. Does that make him the least bit intelligent?
We're talking about people who think it's OK to kill thousands of civillians and actively seek to do so. This isn't just "misguided," it's just plain wrong, but these people have all but been programmed to think this way.
And the civillians killed in Afghanistan, Iraq, or (Insert country here) by US bombs, do they deserve less? Should the leaders of the USA be killed because of their actions?
These people are too far gone to even try to set straight. We'd be doing everybody a favor (including them) by killing them.
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, or something like that. You are not doing them a favour by killing them. You are not even helping yourself. How many enemies do you create when you kill that one. How many old enemies are now willing to go that much further because of it? You are adding to a chain reaction that will only end up bad for both sides. I believe something better will have to be thought of for these criminals. I don't know what, but if you lock one up, a group highjacks a plane to attempt to get his release, if you kill one, who knows what will happen.
Also, like it or not, US foreign policy has alot of problems, and alot of it has to do with protecting US businesses holdings in foreign countries. It's safe to assume that if you oppress (see CIA) people in a country for the profits of a company in your country, you are going to piss some people off. Sure, it doesn't give them the right to fly a few jets into some of your buildings and doesn't make it any more morally right, but at least it may make you understand why some became such crazy mothers with a want to kill all Americans.
P.S. I'm not trying to lay blame to the US for what happened last year. As I said, nothing that's been done makes killing thousands of innocent people any more right.
September 11 (1973) US-backed coup overturns democratically elected government in Chile, leading to thousands of deaths, tortures and "disappearances"
My father was there. He was listening to the radio as democratically elected Aliende prepared to defend his country with his life. Even knowing that he had no chance, he armed himself and stood in front of the seat of the govenrment to fend off the coup with his own hands.
Would Bush have done the same? Would any recent U.S.president?
If some foreign force invaded DC, would any recent president -- knowing it would be certain death -- have the cojones to deffend his nation? Or would he run and hide?
My parents were both in Brazil durring the U.S.-backed military dictatorship there. My father got a first-hand look at just how involved the U.S. was in that affair.
My father and I now work to change U.S. policy so that maybe someday the rest of the world won't have a reason to hate us. Patriotism is loving your country enough to see its faults -- and try and fix them.
t'nera semordnilap
Well, how bout 4-6000 year old problem. It is a family squabble, no real solution.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Well, that was a tribute for all the firemen, but it looks like someone decided not to like it and modded it 'redundant'. Thank you and fuck you!
I'm not trolling, I'm just pissed off because it's this kind of thinking that got us here in the first place.
First, you don't disarm Americans to make us safe. That makes it easier for everyone else to take advantage of us. In the 50s, most pilots were ex-military and carried guns. Imagine if those pilots were armed. The twin towers would still be standing and we won't be suffering from hearing a bunch of crappy reporters pretend to care 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
Liberty is the the primary civil right. Liberty gives us life. How can you protect your own self if you don't have the freedom to do so? That's what America's all about. Take your commie ass somewhere else.
First I'd like to say I abhor the racism that you have experienced. Thank you for sharing your experiences, its very widespread and something that most Americans don't acknowledge.
A friend just related a story to me the other day about going through a toll booth and the attendant saying "We're going to get you and your friends."
I am curious about the statement you made:
the only true muslim (as I am not) ally doesn't play games with USA
This doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can see, I'd love to hear your feedback. Turkey has and will continue to use its strategic location with respect to Iraq and as a path for a pipeline for Caspian oil to gain US support and silence for its suppression of the Kurds. It is very clear that a condition of use of bases in Turkey to remove the Iraqi regime is that a Kurdish state not be formed from northern Iraq.
People are passionate about their beliefs. Beliefs often define who a person is and what their culture/society stands for. If you don't share their beliefs, you are in essence telling them that they are wrong and ignorant and that their culture has little or no value. At best, since you don't "convert" you are saying your way is superior.
The United States is the strongest military power in the world, bar none. We've budgeted more $$ for defense in 2003 than countries 2-16 combined! Our culture is pervasive. Go to Taiwan and you'll see a Starbucks and McDonalds on almost every corner. Levi's, Coca Cola and Disney are mega-sellers in almost every country with an economy. It is nothing to see people in Europe and the Middle East bitching about "Americans" while swilling a Coke and sitting in a pair of Western jeans.
Mao Tse Tung called them "Sugar Coated Bullets" -- American cultural icons like Disney and Coke spreading thru China. Like the Playboy store in ShangHai.
France, during the 80s, refused to ratify the GATT treaty until there were restrictions (quotas) put on American movies, television and music imports. France is especially sensative of their culture and diminished global influence.
In short (too late!), American culture is taking over the world. We aren't forcing it, people choosed what they like. Other cultures are getting forced out and feel threatened. The resulting fear turns to hatred of America and Americans. We are a "corrupting" influence. And we do take for granted freedoms and benefits others can only dream of.
Many European politicians are not defined by their beliefs -- they simply pick the opposite side of what America chooses, regardless.
In closing, for those that would argue to live and let live, that only works if EVERYONE does it and regardless of what direction America takes, we will piss off SOMEONE.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
"I'm not trying to start something nasty here, but there have been over a thousand Civilian deaths in Afganistan so far, and some reports say up to three thousand. "
Was I cheering the civillian deaths? Was I chanting "kill all ragheads?" No, my opinion is that the higher-ups of al Qaeda, the ones who decided the attacks last year were a good idea and actively worked to support them, shouldn't have "leniency" from the death penalty. They are in a small class of people that are simply too far gone from the basics of civilization as to be unsalvagable.
As for the rest of the organization and perhaps the region as a whole, for the most part they just need a big dose of the First Amendment. Give them the ability to get information easily and let them decide for themselves (instead of the propoganda they've been force-fed) and they'll likely see the error of their ways. Unfortunately for everybody involved, that probably won't be coming any time soon...
Here is the link that should have been in the above article, to snopes urban legend site.
http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/cnn.htm
To try it again as a referenced link, go
here .
make world, not war
there have been over a thousand Civilian deaths in Afganistan so far
Source please, and no, www.lefty.org, www.bedwettingliberal.com, www.deathtoamerica.net doesn't cut it.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
Huh? Where did that come from?
The original AC post claimed that the perpetrators of 9/11 were uneducated and brainwashed (and seemed to imply that they themselves were somehow "victims" of fanatic indoctrination, but we're not going to go there). That statement is patently false. I corrected the record.
So, to answer your logically-flawed question: if President Bush is also privileged, elite, and college-educated, then that makes him privileged, elite, and college-educated.
Clear now? Good.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
Who wrote that originally?
If you cut and paste a phrase from it into a
Google search you'll get several hits all
containing the same text, so I was just wondering.
Our government has to do what it takes to prevent any future terrorists activities both her and abroad. If some of freedoms are comprimised, so be it. An honest person has nothing to fear from these changes. We don't get ourselves into situations that could be taken as terrorist in nature. Only those suspecious characters trying to plot an act will be investigated and scrutinized. We have let the bleeding-heart liberals dilute our national security under the guise of freedom's. A little fear is good, it keeps you honest. Don't worry, your freedoms won't be taken away like they would lead you to believe. Fear tactics are only used by those who don't want their subversive activities investigated. A honest, upstanding citizen doesn't fear scrutiny. He has nothing to hide.
This has got to be the most pointless discussion ever on Slashdot.
I mean, come on, you're on a Slashdot (FRIGGIN SLASHDOT!) discussing religion, morality, and pseudo world history. That does it, I'm turning off my computer and staring blankly into space for the rest of the day.
Look at my karma - I'm bad, just like Michael Jackson!
"The U.S.'s war in Afghanistan has killed thousands of civilians. War against Iraq would probably kill an order of magnitude more Iraqis. Where does that fall on your moral scale?"
We're not the ones actively targeting civillians. We're not the ones hiding behind civillians. Hell, we're the ones actively trying to find genuine military targets to strike.
We've invaded Afghanistan. Unlike the previous regime, we're not actively raping and pillaging our enemy civillian populations. We're not forcing our moral system on others (note that Afghanistan probably won't have anything resembling the First Amendment in the forseeable future).
Are the civillian deaths regrettable? Yes. Should we try to avoid them whenever we can. Yes. But, unlike our enemies, we do regret the civillian deaths (instead of cheering them) and we do try to avoid killing them whenever we can (instead of making sure they're in the cross-fire).
I fail to see how current US military actions fall into the same catetory.
This whole discussion reminds me of something Orwell once brought up: Freedom of speech hinders the war efforts of democratic societies and ultimately aid their non-democaratic enemies. And before you jump to conclusions, I'm not saying "do away with freedom of speech for the war effort," I'm just trying to point out that a year ago, if you publicly spoke out against al Qaeda and Taliban actions against civillians in Afghanistan, you'd be long dead by now. Maybe you should consider that before you start lumping us all together in one category next time.
(I am now predicting at least three responses to this post mentioning the name "Aschroft")
How about: How many /.'s will rethink the competence
of the CIA and NSA covert SIGINT after 9/11?
From rossz (link to article):
The biggest casualty will probably be our Constitution. Whenever a tragedy likes this occurs, the government always announces a get tough on terrorists policy that will have no effect on the psychopaths who do this, but will severely limit our rights.Hole in One, rossz!
The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
Well, if we live in constant fear of being killed, and therefore cannot travel, work or even leave our homes...can you truly call that Freedom?
Cold as it may sound, I would consider this a personal choice and/or problem. There are many places in the world were terrorism is a daily occurance, and yet they manage to leave thier houses to goto work, go on vacations and generally live thier lives.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
- "We" (the giant corporate military industrial complex of the "west",
including the world bank, IMF, WTO, etc.) systematically oppress,
murder and enslave entire countries full of innocent people.
- We install our own dictatorships in these countries (e.g. Indonesia,
Iraq, etc.) while parcelling up their resources among 1st-world
megacorporations, many of which have larger operating budgets than
entire countries.
- We force these countries to accept "free trade", meaning we make
them remove all import tarriffs, and then flood their economy with
cheap products and staple foods. Just like when a Wal-Mart moves in
next door, the local artisans/farmers cannot compete, and they and
their children must give up the farm and move into the city to work
for subsistence wages under inhumane conditions in factories for
Gap, Nike, etc.
- Anyone who tries to resist this is called a "communist" (or maybe
now they'll be called an "Al Qaeda sympathizer") and is subject to
imprisonment, torture, and murder. These are people who've somehow
gotten the crazy idea that a country's natural resources might
actually be used to benefit its *own* citizens. They don't realize
that their lot in life is to shut up and be cheap labor.
- We force these countries to take out massive loans to buy our
imported goods--loans they will never be able to repay.
- In addition to providing the capital for the loans, U.S. taxpayers
money goes into "aid packages" for these now destitute countries.
The aid packages are earmarked for buying food and goods from
western megacorporations. This is another way in which the system
works to channel our money to the corporations.
- If anyone gets out of line, we don't have a problem using weapons of
mass distruction against their citizens (a million people have died
radiation-related deaths in Iraq since 1991 because we rained
thousands of tons of depleted uranium bombs and shells over the
whole southern half of the country). After all, making us
taxpayers support a massive military system (of historically
unprecented size) is another major way in which the system feeds our
money to the industrial complex.
- On 9/11, some assholes out there (we don't have the monopoly on
evil) manage to succeed in attacking the monetary system that rules
the world. Over 3000 "collateral" casualties also result.
- The response? Use this as a great excuse to (a) remove some more
civil liberties from us (an educated, free-thinking populace is the
*real* enemy of tyranny), and also (b) channel more of our money
into our military machine.
- Anyone who tries to point out any of the above is basically called a
traitor. After all, "you're either with us or against us". As if
even trying to understand what's going on is treasonous!
If you are intrigued by any of this and want to investigate for
yourself (don't believe me--I'm just regurgitating this stuff), you
might like to look at John Pilger's new book "The New Rulers of the
World", or any of his earlier stuff. Also, the copious writings of
Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, and even Gore Vidal are great places to
start.
If you are unwilling to open your eyes, you'll probably just call me a
"communist" or an "Al Queda sympathizer" (I am neither). While it
shouldn't be necessary, I nevertheless feel compelled to stress that I
do not condone the 9/11 attacks, nor do I think the people killed on
that day "deserved to die", or that the terrorists were justified in
doing it. I also think that it was counterproductive to their cause,
as all violence is. I just wish people would be willing to see that
we ourselves have been, and are again contemplating, waging extended
campaigns of violence in the world that dwarf the events of 9/11. We
still have a chance to change our ways.
You seem to be confusing justice with retribution.
look at how they jeer and swear and shout at six year old girls walking to school. Real men. Look at how, even under the promise of peace, they can't bear to give up arms.
Terrorists are cowards - they pick the softest, easiest targets - civilians. If you're hard men, go for the fucking military. Your grandfathers would spit on you if they knew how you choose to fight your wars.
September 11 (1973) US-backed coup overturns democratically elected government in Chile, leading to thousands of deaths, tortures and "disappearances"...
I will call you liberal dickhead
"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, or something like that."
Yes, there are infinite shades of gray in between, but there is an absolute black and absolute white in the world. That's the basis for ideas like the Geneva Conventions and Hague Accords (two things that al Qaeda have actively sought to violate). After all, Hitler was just liberating the Fatherland from the Jewish scourge...
"You are not doing them a favour by killing them."
Yes, I am. That was my whole argument. Death by legal injection is likely the only humane solution to them.
"How many old enemies are now willing to go that much further because of it?"
Depends on the potential new enemies and how you kill them. Thought experiment: What if we happen to capture bin Laden alive? What if we put him on trial and then broadcast the trial live over Voice of America?
I wonder if there would be so many anti-American zealots in the Islamic world today if their government-controlled media outlets let them, say, learn about how the US courts are bending over backwards to give Moussaoui a fair trial. If this were the Saudi legal system, he'd probably have been beheadded months ago.
Geez! This thread is already bigger than the original /. article! (The original artile accumulated only 1215 posts in 24 hours, we're already up past 1250).
thou art exceedingly 1337
I live in Annapolis MD, about an hours drive away from the pentagon. I got up at about 8:15 and and proceed to get ready to go to school (AACC for those familiar with the area). I had my walkman with me at the time and heard the report that a plane had hit the world trade center. My first thought was of a crop duster sized plane. I thought that it seemed rather odd but didn't think to much of it as I went inside (and lost the radio signal) to go to class. As people and news trickled in to the room, the scope if what happened begin to set in. Getting in contact with people was an exercise in skill. My biggest concern was my mom who happens to work very close to the pentagon. After (finally) getting in contact with her i felt better. I called my job to tell everyone that I would most likley be late today, I was told don t bother they were closing early. Me and my family made it home ok. I tried to watch the news but after seeing so many talking empty heads i couldn't take it any more. I was pretty tired then anyway, so I want to sleep at about 4 pm that was my day. Looking back, the reaction of the government as well as mot people bothers me. "Don't bring em to justice, Send em to hell" Bumper sticker's sprung up everywhere (complete with bad grammar). Every hour someone was on TV proclaiming the start of WWIII. For the next week, TV degenerated (possible?) into little more than i giant play on everyones fears. I actually skipped church that week because I knew what the tone of the service would be.(Way more drama than I was ready for.) Everywhere i went there was some stupid yuppy discussing foreign policy like he was Colen Powell when in fact they were just regurgitating some BS they had heard on the Oriley Factor. For a truly great account of the events subsequent to September 11, Check out http://www.h2k2.net/panels.html Jello Biafra and Aaron McGruder give wonderful speeches on the topic.
Insert sig here (slashdot) Insert cig here (Lewinsky)
coward says love and peace
If you are still shaken by the horrifying scenes of September 11, please observe 2 minutes of silence for the 5,000 civilian lives lost in the New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania attacks.
While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets. Now another 20 minutes of silence for the 200,000 Iranians killed by Iraqi soldiers using weapons and money provided to young Saddam Hussein by the American government before the great eagle turned all its power against Iraq.
Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed by the Talibaan troops who were supported and trained by the CIA. Plus 10 minutes of silence for 100,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.
We've just kept quiet for one hour: two minute for the Americans killed in NY, DC, and Pennsylvania, 58 minutes for their victims throughout the world. If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit. Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where Americans troops attacked poor villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead. Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargo on Iraq and Cuba.
Or the hundreds of thousands brutally murdered throughout the world by USA-sponsored civil wars and coups d'etat (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador to name a few).
Now, let's talk about terrorism, shall we?
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/09/05_S tepford.html
September 5, 2002
Stepford Citizen Syndrome: Top 10 Signs Your Neighbor is Brainwashed
by Maureen Farrell
Though much of the world is convinced the 2000 election was a coup d'etat, and many believe we're being lied to regarding 9/11, we Americans are unaware of how numb we seem. Not only are we being coerced into World War III, but at this very moment, unnamed souls are secretly locked away, the Army's drafted plans for civilian detention camps and there's a shadow government buzzing beneath our streets. And yet, we continue to ignore the oily elephant in the living room.
The administration's Iraq war dance is likewise baffling, particularly when Dick Cheney says Saddam can't be trusted -- even though, not too long ago, he was trusted to the tune of $73 million during Halliburton/Iraq transactions. Moreover, newly discovered memos reveal that Cheney was also involved in a 1975 cover-up involving the CIA's mind-control experiment, MK-ULTRA. Back then, the government paid $750,000 restitution to Army biochemist Dr. Frank Olson's family, after admitting the CIA slipped Dr. Olson LSD days before his 1953 fall from a New York City building. When the Ford administration finally came clean, they promised they'd revealed everything. Yet according to an article in the "Mercury News," (Scientist's death haunts family, August 8, 2002) key officials, including White House aides Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld pushed to continue to conceal information.
But not only has the government tried to control people's minds, they've copped to controlling the media, too. Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's plan to infiltrate America's newsrooms, was such a success that former CIA director William Colby boasted, "the Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any major significance in the major media." Carl Bernstein substantiated this, revealing that hundreds of journalists and news organizations were involved in this subversion. And though officials have admitted to planting fabrications in the past, it seems they're still at it. Remember the story about the terrorist's passport surviving the fiery crash into the World Trade Center? What could that be but government-issued pabulum? And what else but full-scale public brainwashing accounts for the rash of Stepford Citizen Syndrome spreading throughout the country?
Which brings us to the case in point. Researchers have identified the following symptoms. If you overhear anyone making the following statements, assume they've been brainwashed and intervene immediately:
1) "George Bush is a decent man."
Abraham Lincoln once said, "[I]f you want to test a man's character, give him power." If he steals power, however, the nature of his character is no longer in question. This week's out of court settlement with the NAACP over Florida's foray into election fraud confirms BBC's Greg Palast's report that the election was rigged. Yet pundits ignore this travesty, while referring to Dubya's decency in much the same way our ancestors spoke of Earth's flatness. Overlooking our thrice-arrested president's blatant disregard for civil rights, human rights and the environment, they continue to downplay scandals and downgrade their role as protectors of the public trust. But with oft-repeated quips like, "lucky me, I hit the trifecta" and "if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier," G.W. offers a glimpse at his indecent inner frat boy. Especially revealing was a Talk Magazine interview, in which he mimicked death row inmate Karla Faye Tucker. "Please," Bush whimpered, mocking Tucker's plea for clemency, "don't kill me." Gallows humor is only funny when those telling jokes don't have the power to save people from the gallows.
2) "I have faith in our system of checks and balances."
Certainly, the uproar over Operation TIPs and recent court decisions on FBI abuses and secret deportation hearings are healthy signs. Except, of course, that controversial findings against Ashcroft's Justice Department will most likely be appealed before the same felonious five who handed down the 2000 selection. Chief Justice Rehnquist has already warned that, "in times of war, the laws are silent." Then, too, though the Constitution grants Congress the sole right to declare war, since 1948, America has been involved in approximately 250 military incursions without one single declaration of war. The Bush regime has already said they don't need Congress' approval on Iraq. So much for checks and balances.
3) "We have to defend ourselves, and the war on terrorism is the only way to do that."
Anyone who believes this war is simply a drive to eradicate terrorism must be brainwashed. The U.S. has been building military bases along proposed oil pipeline routes, and has its eye on the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian Sea region. All anyone need do is read Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" or brush up on the Wolfowitz Doctrine to understand the not-so-hidden agenda behind U.S foreign policy. In a recent appearance on Crossfire, Insight Magazine's Jamie Dettmer deftly addressed America's aim to control the oil fields in Iraq. "Nobody has suggested the United States is going into Iraq to control the oil," Tucker Carlson asserted, leaving some to wonder if Tucker's bow tie isn't too tight. "Let's not be unsophisticated about this," Dettmer replied, warning that, "in the end, if America doesn't restrain itself, [it's] going to provoke groupings of countries which will restrain America instead."
4) "Since September 11, George Bush has shown strong leaderships skills."
Since September 11, George Bush has led us away from progressive policies and alienated us from the rest of the world. British papers describe the biggest rift between Europe and the U.S. in more than 50 years, 85 percent of Germans no longer trust America, and veteran reporter Helen Thomas bemoans how, "friends and allies wonder what's happened to the United States." Our $7 trillion surplus has followed the president's example and gone AWOL, while unemployment, crime and intellectual numbness are on the rise. Under Bush's "leadership," the U.S. Has become the kid who picks his nose in class. Those of us who love America are embarrassed; others are repulsed.
5) "Europeans don't agree with us because they're effete appeasers."
Europeans don't agree with us because we're wrong. They understand the geopolitical motivations behind this war, as their press isn't as censored. In America, however, stories about Enron's involvement in the proposed oil and gas pipeline though Afghanistan were squashed, and if you wanted to know about the Taliban's trip to Texas, you had to learn about it in the National Enquirer rather than on Meet the Press.
6) "George Bush's administration is filled with solid, foreign policy pros."
Aside from Colin Powell, George Bush's cabinet is swarming with neo-conservative ideologues who'd be clamoring for an attack on Iraq even if the atrocities of 9/11 hadn't occurred. Despite the chorus of countries opposed, Dick Cheney unilaterally forges ahead, while Donald Rumsfeld says he's certain America will receive backing from the international community. Meanwhile, the international community scratches its head and wonders what's become of our once great nation.
7) "George Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror."
Given limited media coverage, how would anyone know? Unless one digs through foreign press and alternative media reports, there's little to go by. When one reads reports from journalists like Seymour Hersh, however, a different picture emerges. Stability in Afghanistan is but a myth, warlords carry out atrocities without intervention, and the State Department is forced to guard President Karzai. Meanwhile, many warn that Bush's plans for Iraq could lead to Armageddon. Yet "Bush is doing an excellent job in the war on terror?" How?
8) "People who say the Bush administration 'let 9/11 happen' are conspiracy nuts."
Forget the president's odd behavior on September 11. Ignore that jets weren't scrambled from Andrews Airforce base, or that the FBI reportedly thwarted investigations. Pretend there are no connections between the Bushes, bin Ladens and the Saudis or that Bush #41 doesn't profit from this war through his connections with the Carlyle Group. Imagine, for a moment, it doesn't matter that those heading the closed-door investigation into 9/11 met twice with the former Pakistan intelligence chief, who reportedly helped finance Mohammed Atta. And never mind that, despite warnings, only 14 planes were defending our mainland on September 11. These oddities could be explained through coincidence and incompetence rather than complicity.
That said, remember this: After World War II, the CIA recruited Nazi scientists to share information later used in the aforementioned MK-Ultra program. In the '60s, the Pentagon drafted plans to kill American citizens and blame it on Castro as a pretext for war with Cuba. And Army-based concentration camps aren't merely a gleam in Ashcroft's eye. The brainwashed are conditioned to hear "conspiracy" and shut down, however, immediately deducing information isn't true and the messenger is daft. But even Bill Clinton reportedly asked Webster Hubbell to find answers to two questions: "One, who killed JFK? And, two, are there UFOs? " He never found out. And odds are we won't either. Even so, it's not crazy to demand an independent investigation into 9/11. Nor is it nuts to wonder why the administration is doing everything in its power to make certain we never uncover what went wrong.
9) "The media is liberal."
Ann Coulter complains about the liberal media through the "liberal media," where she's regularly given a forum, yet Michael Moore has appeared on less than a handful of shows, though his book's been a bestseller for six months. During the election, the corporately-controlled media portrayed Al Gore in a negative light, while touting Bush's phony ranch-hand charm, and according to a report in F.A.I.R (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting), 75% of the dominant sources of opinion on all three major networks are Republican. Yet the brainwashed continue to believe the media has a liberal bias. Go figure.
10) "Saddam has weapons of mass destruction!"
This phrase has replaced, "Saddam gassed his own people!" as the #1 mantra of war-mongering dittoheads. But despite former weapons' inspector Scott Ritter's assertion that there's no proof Hussein has amassed weapons of mass destruction, Dick Cheney says there's "no doubt" he's got them and plans to use them. During the Cuban missile crisis, John F. Kennedy relayed photographic evidence proving the Soviet Union was up to no good. Where's the proof now? Why hasn't the administration won over our allies? Why do so many doubt there is "no doubt?"
Latest polls indicate that nearly half of all Americans believe the First Amendment "goes too far," proving that Stepford Citizen Syndrome is now a national crisis. We have an obligation to rouse our loved ones out of their stupor. If we don't, the thugs who've stolen America will steam-roll right over us. And if you can't see that, chances are, you're brainwashed.
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Does anyone know why the terrorists chose September 11? I haven't seen it discussed anywhere. I really don't think it is to do with the emergency phone number. I also don't think it had to be that day for logistical reasons. The date is likely to have religious significance. I have my own theory, Read verses "9-11" revelations chapter 14. http://www.awitness.org/biblehtm/re/re14.htm I'll summarise it. "Any who worship the beast will be tormented by fire...and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever" Now read this http://www.lis.net.au/~dbird/ifanyworshipbeast.htm
Note that the website was created before 09/11/2001, it explains that "the land of the beast" can be interpreted as the USA.
I just find this all too much of a coincidence. No other group of verses in the revelations fit as perfectly as 9-11.
btw I am not religious at all I just decided to do some research into the significance of the date and came up with the above.
I am a European who used to love the us. In 1999, I graduated from an American High School. On Sept. 11th, 2001, I was staying with a good friend at his house in Chicago. A lot has changed since then. US Government policy has made me a fierce opponent of u.s. interests. The ignorance and undemocratic acts of violence and injustice make me believe, that the us has not leared anything. The "war on terrorism" has been the best possible example of what created the terrorist minds in the first place. Good look America!
I laughed to tears on the essays that they've published. Don't get me wrong, I sincerely condole with Americans, I lost a few friends in Russia just because they were glad about what happened, but some of you (meaning Americans) sound funny sometimes. Looks like you should be taught history better and brainwashed less. You, for example, keep forgetting that Osama Bin Laden was born, raised and funded by CIA. That Taliban regime in Afghanistan was a direct result of US intervention into USSR's military action against them. We (meaning Russians) were doing the same that the US did this year, the only difference that this year nobody was supporting taliban. If we supported them, you'd still be fighting.
And now these folks think that they can intervene freely into other countries' internal problems and declare war on whoever they want.
Again, don't get me wrong, what was done in Afghanistan was a right thing to do, unlike in many other places on this troubled planet where there was absolutely no need in US intervention.
And tying all this to Jews and Holocaust is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. I understand that Israel wanst to protect itself, but the kind of subliminal brainwash they're putting in the US press is just DISGUSTING.
*
Just heard on the radio that someone where I work (I am off today) wore a T-shirt with GW Bush's make no mistake quote as their tribute to 9/11. They were asked to take it off. My employer denies it, yet the person who wore the T-shirt is on the radio. First off, this is AMERICA! You CANNOT do that! If you ask your emplyees to dress patriotically, to some, it's easier ot go get a t-shirt. That's what they did. This is a totally PC move on their part and stupid beyond belief. I remember on the 12th I had brought some flags to stick on my monitor and my boss asked me why I brought them in (DUH!). AT the time I worked wiht a co-worker who was Islamic. I told him why and he told me I shouldn't have brought them in. I had a discussion with him an dhe realized that he had made a mistake Basically, I said I could take to HR about it if you want....he decided to be quite...that and the multitudes of stupid employers that were doing this were being riducled on the news and talk radio circuit. Funny thing was the muslim I worked with was not offended at all by it and she appreciated me bringing them in. People people people. We need to KILL politacally correctness. It's tearing the country apart. Noone is wrong because they hold a view different than yours and noone's opinion should be supressed. This is America and we have the right to say anything we damn well want! Be it print, a T-shirt, your car or truck or whatever.
Gorkman
NO, you changed your behavior, now the Terrorists have won!! Won't somebody think about the children??
Only in America would we have personal liberties taken away under the guise of fighting the war on terror, or am I wrong? Surely, I am. Video game ban in Greece, anyone? There are other countries that pull this shit. America is not alone. Anyone that's reading this from Canada, a European Union country, China ( can they even read slashdot? ) or any other nation, really, thinking that your shit doesn't stink, wake up. Ignorance isn't bliss, it's a nightmare.
But here's the real question: Why? What incentives are there for the leaders in OUR government to take away personal liberties? Do they get more money? Do they feel safer as a result? Are they power-crazy? Do they feel as if they're "doing something" instead of standing around "ignoring" an issue? It really boggles my mind. If someone can answer any of these questions for me, you'd earn my utmost respect.
The thing that really blows my mind is how we have so many new laws as result of the attacks on 9/11. I don't feel any more secure due to them. So why were they enacted? I certainly don't feel any safer knowing that murder is a serious crime if I'm walking around alone at night in a seedy part of a town I've never visited before. And I don't feel any safer knowing airline passengers can't carry toe clippers onto 747s.
There are two things I have learned from these attacks. Not only have I firmly cemented my anti-racist core, but furthermore, I have found, for lack of better words, that I am a "Logic Elitist." What's this, you ask? I have a strong hatred for those who can't backup their reasoning with sound, logical conclusions and reasoning. I hate stupid people.
We shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. -PJ O'Rourke
slashdot had ads all day that day or at least
much of the day
"What luck for the rulers that men do not think."
"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."
"Strength lies not in defence but in attack."
"Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong."
"The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one."
It is an exercise to the reader to compare the some of the more prominant ideals in this "All-American" rant to the ideals of the man who made these statements I've quoted here.
And unlike the original poster, I am not a coward.
Why bother.
The reason Japan has not had any agression since WWII is not the pounding they got, it is because of the MARSHAL PLAN.
Some history. After WWI, Germany was pounded into submission, millions killed, all infrastructure destroyed. Internaltional punishment was delt to them. They were oppressed. Germany was reviled, Their people hated world wide. Extremely horrible economic and emotional conditions.
Question: Did that prevent them from starting another war?
Answer: NO!
After WWII, The Marshal plan was implemented in both Germany and Japan. This plan prevented either from building an Army. But it did help both rebuild their economies, their industries, their schools and hospitals. The US and allies spent millions of dollars rebuilding Germany and Japan into modern, capable and respected countries. No oppression. No punishment.
Since then, neither has had any aggression of the type in WWII.
So, by your logic, Germany should have been stopped after WWI. But they weren't, were they. The difference? Rebuild them, respect them. Don't give them an emotional reason to go to war.
Now a question for you. If someone were to beat the crap out of you, a school yard bully (assuming you weren't the school yard bully). Would you sit and cower and pray he goes away, or would you plot vengence? Do you believe other people think any differently that you do on subjects like that?
Learn some history. Learn some psychology. Become a better person.
Peace be with you.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
One thing has been bothering me about our "search for Osama" or whatever.. assuming we did find him, wouldn't we have to produce hard evidence that he was behind 9/11? Now, don't get me wrong, I understand what we *know*, but what we *know* and what flies in some kind of court ruled by international law is totally different. I can't seem to recall anything where he claims responsibility, but rather that he's always just praising whoever did it. Assuming we found him, do you guys believe that we would have any idea? I personally think that we wouldn't be informed until after he was tried and executed by the military. It seems we're after Osama more for vengance than for our own safety at this point, so that just makes sense to me. --- Anyway.. I understand why today is very serious and all of that, but did America just forgot about 9/11 until a year later? It sure as hell seems like everybody decided to pretend it didn't happen and then just remembered today. I was not personally affected by these events of course, but I had coped with them fairly quickly. It was the first real attack on America from an outside force since Pearl Harbor as best as my memory serves me.. thousands died, and I do feel sorry for those who lost loved ones, but relative to the number of people who die every single day, or just when compared to the total number of people in this country, let alone the world, the number is small. If we continue to freak out about this and allow it to change us, then they've really suceeded. I mean, the point of "terrorists" is to terrorize, right? I mean, they scare the hell out of it, it's what they do. Well, apparently they did a damn good job since we're all freaked out as hell about all of this. I don't know.. just my thoughts for the day.
-----
jonathan barket
The U.S.'s war in Afghanistan has killed thousands of civilians.
a llenged /11AFGH.html
Don't claim this as documented fact, as it's not even close to one. In a conflict where the enemy does not conveniently dress in uniforms, it can be hard to tell the difference. But I do encourage you to read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/11/nationch
I quote:
'The joy of one group of 10- to 12-year-olds, sitting on the floor, was infectious, and a visitor had only to ask whom they credited for their change of fortune to set off a cheerful chorus.
"America! America! America!" they cried, and then, "George W. Bush!"'
'In Ghazni, the headmaster, Abdul Samad, 56, beamed as he listened to the girls bubbling with enthusiasm for America. But then took a visitor aside to offer a sober sentiment: "Please tell America we feel very sorry for happened on Sept. 11, because thousands of innocent people were killed. But please tell them, too, that Sept. 11, for us, was a starting point, and not the end.
"This time, we need America to stay with us, and not to run away."'
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Embarrassingly, a month ago I had almost forgotten... the flags were all gone, the banners taken down, the innocents killed were just a vague grey cloud in my mind... strangely today they are real again. The feeling I hold from that day a year ago is there are things out there that are much bigger than any one individual. Our only hope is to stand together and help each other in times of need. I pray that I remember that a month from now.
You keep mentioning "these people" and how they all deserve death for "cheering" others death... Do you, in retrospect, also deserve death for cheering their death? One has to be very careful not to become just what they are fighting agasint.
I think that you are missing one small but important point on this.
Intent.
There is a large gap between targeting a military complex and catching a few innocent people and directly targeting innocent people, who have no military value. While I will grant that the death of a non-military target civilian is sad, it is sometimes unavoidable in war.
And please don't give me that crap about how we shouldn't be fighting wars, and there are no reasons for wars, that is bullshit. Because there are those humans that will try and subjigate others around them, it sometimes becomes necessary to take up arms and defend your soverigenty/freedom. I will grant that this is often taken too far, and that many wars are fought for some pretty bad reasons, but war is a necessity at times. If you are truly that against war, might I suggest that you go back to living your life as a serf for the Queen of England, and allow royalty to have full control over your life. Not I, thank you very much, I feel a lot of gratitude to the men and women that fought and died in the American Revolution.
As for the death of non-military target civilians in a war, this should be avoided as much as possible. In case you missed it, the US military does a lot of work to this end. Its actually a side effect of good military tactics. First, there is the military intellegence, jokes about this being an oxymoron aside, consider the number of bombs that are dropped that do hit valid military targets, its a large number. The only ones that get press though are the ones that either miss, or were mis-directed. The people in MI are human, they screw up, but at least they are trying. Second, dropping bombs on non-miltary targets is a waste of ordanace, it costs money. Not to mention the obvious poilitical ramifications. If the US didn't care about minimizing civilian casualties it would have given up on expensive Laser/TV/IR guided bombs. We can mass produce 500lbs bombs, load up B-52's and carpet bomb a good sized country out of existance. But its not done.
Am I cheering the deaths of the people that our military kills? No, I think its sad that mothers are losing thier sons. However, I am cheering the destruction of the organizations that they are fighting for. If there was an efficent way to bring this all to an end, and not have to kill anyone, I would be all for it. But, I haven't seen one. War, while undesirable, is often the quickest means to peace. If you have a better solution, post it. Diplomacy isn't working. Not getting involved in the Middle East? A nice idea, afterall the Kurds are of no concern to us, better to let the different tribes in the Middle East kill each other off, and then we can deal with the winners. Along the same lines, we should never have gotten involved in the war in Europe. We should have stood by the sidelines waited for the dust to settle, and then started working out trade agreements with the Third Riech. Isolationism, that's the ticket, the US says, "screw the rest of the world, we're not getting involved."
Personally I'd like to know real reasons on why the USA is so hated by so many people across the globe, and don't tell me its becasue "they hate our freedom", its a wonder every time i see GWB say that with a straight face.
I agree that the "they hate our freedom" excues is BS. If you're interested KFI AM640 actually interviewed a top member of a British group that is celebrating the positive outcomes of the 9/11 attacks today. It really was rather enlightening. According to the person interviewed, its not the US, freedom or any other such ideal that is under attack, but instead its any system of law created by man, and not god given. They usually keep some of thier stuff online for a while, and the interview may be there. Listening to this guy was really interesting, he was well spoken, and polite, he wasn't a screaming idiot.
I think this whole issue is a Lot more complex than having a simple "kill them all" solution. If we are supposed to be the most advanced and cultured society in the history of the earth, i'm sure we can do better than that.
Why is it that everyone seems to have this "Star Trek" view of what an 'advanced' society should be? Sometimes the old way of doing things is still the best. I would like to have a better solution than "kill them all", and I think there might be one, but I'm not for standing by and getting beaten up while trying to figure it out. Go back to the 80's the US was being attacked relentlessly by terrorists under Kadafi. It was decided that enough was enough and a couple of strike aircraft went to visit Kadafi's home. Shortly after that the attacks on US soil abated. It was brutal, but it stopped the attacks in a very short time span.
War has its place, and no amount of whining that we should be an 'advanced', ala "Star Trek", society is going to change that. If you aren't willing to fight for your rights, then you deserve to be a slave. I agree that a non-violent solution would be wonderful, but I haven't seen someone put one forward yet that has a snowball's chance in hell of succeding. If you can prove me wrong, please do so. I don't like violence, but I do feel that when it comes time to use it, it should be as efficent as possible. The only deterent I have ever seen to a war is a strong show of force. Both the US and the USSR won in the cold war, neither side suffered the massive destruction that nuclear weapons promised. And that was because both sides knew that the other side was too well armed to attack. So for now, the only thing I can see that has a possibility of stopping the terrorist attacks on the US is to make it obvious that attacking the US is just going to get you killed. Especially the leaders and planners of the attacks. They are the ones that need to be killed. Most of the people that carry out the suicide attacks do not have the means to plan, and execute them on thier own, they have to rely on the people that sit in the background and send them to thier deaths.
Yes, I am all for targeted assassinations of terrorist leaders. In the end its a very percise way of dealing with a military threat. Will it occasionally get the wrong person? Yes, that is a fact of war, it sucks, but its part of this whole war thing. But, it still beats the hell out of an all out war, it comes down to numbers at that point. In an all out war you are going to have pretty high non-military civilian casualties, in a bungled assassination, you will have only a handful.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Do you remember the dates Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed?
It's irrelevant if you are actively targeting civilians or not, if you end killing civilians no matter if you regret it, YOU ARE KILLING CIVILIANS.
Examples: The bombing of the wedding party, the attack in may against a small village in Afganistan, in wich american troops killed a 85 year old "gunman", the dettention of all males and the subsecuent pillage of the defenseless village at the hands of a gang of bandits, this will make the afgans very thankful of their american saviors.
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
After a year of constant barrage about it.. i dont want to hear another thing. I am SOO f-ing tired of hearing 9-11 this 9-11 that..
Yes it was a tragedy and shouldn't be forgotten, but its been beaten to death to the point its just a marketing angle.
Its sick. its sad. Its gotta stop. Enough Already.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm a secular humanist. I don't believe in God, and secular humanism doesn't have one. Any reasonable person would, however, describe it as a religion. So stick that up your TBN antenna and smoke it.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
A year ago I was on a boat in the Al Jafad dry dock in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. We'd just gone up to the bridge to use the cell phone (better reception up there). One of the guys, Walt, was talking to his wife when she said that a plane had hit the world trade center. She had no other information, we just assumed some Cessna pilot got lost or flew too close, and we were not too worried. A few minutes later we went downstairs to the mess for dinner and turned on the TV. That's when we saw the second plane hit, and we knew we were in deep shit.
Quite frankly I was very worried about our safety. We stayed on the boat for about two days. The US consulate was closed, so there was no where for us to go to if we got in trouble. We sat for hours in the mess watching CNN with the sound off. We later found out that the sound was off because the government of the UAE was censoring the broadcast. This was a new experience to me, but not to the guys on the boat. I was outraged, but they would say "Mr. Mike, they do this to protect us. Obviously the people are telling lies or speaking bad about Islam, otherwise they would be allowed to speak." And they were serious. Luckily CNN was running text along the bottom of the screen, so we were able to get a decent idea of what was going on.
We saw on CNN the joyous celebrations all over the world, so when we did finally leave the boat I made sure I had a flare gun (I stole one from the bridge) and a 6 inch chefs knife from the kitchen with me, in addition to my usual pocketknives (a Bob Lum Spyderco and a Leatherman Side Clip). I also made sure that the other guys were armed with knives as well (mostly 4 inch Opinels). Non-citizens are not allowed to own/possess guns, stun guns, or pepper spray in the UAE, so knives were all we could carry legally to protect ourselves should the need arise.
It felt odd when we'd go out. Even before the attacks we stood out as we were all taller than the vast majority of the population and we were obviously foreigners, both in dress and face. For two months after the attacks, up until the time we went into Afganistan, people would come up to me on the street and ask if I was an American. At first I did not know what to say, so that first day I said I was a Texan. Most people did not know what a Texan was, but assumed I was not American, so they would then go on about how terrible the attacks were and there was an urgency when they spoke when they'd tell me that Islam was not the cause, that the men who did this were madmen. One very nice older Arabic man had been to Texas, and when I told him I was Texan he hugged me and cried, it was very touching. He and most people I met were outraged at the attacks, furious that men did it in the name of Islam, and worried that the US would destroy the world in retribution. Everyone asked if I knew anyone lost in the attacks, and asked about my family.
Of course, many people I met, including all of the Arabs on the boat with us, were convinced that it was an Israeli attack. As one crewman put it, "It is against Islam to murder innocents, therefore no Muslim could do this. It must be the Jews." I was shocked at this attitude but did not know how to respond to it. Later on when it became more clear that it was indeed Bin Laden's group, the same guys said, "It is too difficult, what they did. Only a nation could do this, not one man or a few men. It must have been Mossad or China, no Arab could plan this." This was kinda funny, because all the Arabs on the boat were lazy fucks, and I certainly could not see any of them planing a good meal let alone a simultaneous hijacking. However, this was not proof, yet they accepted it as such. They firmly believed that if they could not do it, then no other Arab could. This was an attitude that I would find not only on the boat but all over, and is one that still perplexes me.
When US troops went into Afganistan, I became real worried. No longer did people smile and stop me on the street to express their condolences over the attacks. Instead I got angry glares and scowls. I went back to carrying the flare gun and chefs knife in my backpack we I went out. Several people spat at me. Luckily nothing happened, although I did have one Afghani challenge me to a duel. He had a sword, which he had drawn, but I had just purchased a very large Pakastani meat cleaver. It weighs about 10 pounds and is huge. (I figured it'd be good for dressing game) So I took the cleaver out of my pack and said, "Ok." His sword was a crappy one, like one of those you'd see in a sharper image catalog for $40, so I wasn't too worried. I figured I'd whack him upside the head with the flat of the blade and knock some sense into him. A large crowd had gathered, and luckily nothing happened. We agreed to be friends even though our countries might not be. I tried to explain, and I think I did get through to him, that the US was not pissed at Afghanis, that we were after Bin Laden and the Taliban was protecting him. If the Taliban gave him up we'd leave Afghanistan alone. He did not like the Taliban, that's why he was in Dubai and not Kabul, but he had family back home and was worried. The whole situation got better a few days later when it was announced that the US was dropping food and supplies all over Afghanistan, but still the scowls and frowns remained.
After visiting the middle east, I realize how much better off most Americans are than the rest of the world. Especially in the stuff we take for granted, like freedom of religion and of the press. I was not allowed to hear certain things nor was I allowed to say anything bad or even remotely construed as being negative about the government in the UAE. Not just, "don't say that," but the police would come and take me away. The secret police are everywhere and you never know who is listening. My entertainment was censored. Books, newspapers, magazines, CDs, video games, and movies are all censored before they are allowed to be released (for example the whole subplot about the arab arms dealer in the brad Pit movie Spy Game was removed). I was not allowed to practice my religion. I was forbidden to bring a bible in to the country, or to wear a cross around my neck, and there are only about 4 or 5 churches in the entire country (and just try finding a taxi that'll drive you to one of them). I was not allowed to eat what I wanted, nor drink what I wanted. Not that I'm a big drinker or a big pork eater, but after a few months I really wanted to sit down, watch an American Football game, drink a beer, and eat a plate of bacon.
Anyway, now here I am a year later, back in the states. Every flight I've taken since last September I've been searched by hand, my luggage has been searched by hand, and once in Amsterdam our flight was delayed while they pulled out my luggage and made me go through it while a bunch of nervous guys with MP5s and Glocks watched. I gotta tell you, though, that all that did not make me feel safer, in fact it made me feel less safe. I can't help but think that a semi-determined terrorist/hijacker could still very easily get a weapon on board, but I, and most of the other passengers, would be completely disarmed as we are law-abiding, and this would make it much more difficult to stop the hijacking. A sharpened piece of glass, plastic, or stone will not be detected by any metal detector, but it would be a very effective cutting instrument.
So what am I doing a year later? Not much. I watched some of the ceremony in New York and Washington. Here at the office I've been listening to NPR all day. I took off early for lunch and went to a memorial service at my church. I'm usually not big on songs, mainly as my voice just sucks, but today we sang one I don't remember ever singing before. #437 in the Methodist hymnal, "This is My Song." I thought the words were very nice, and appropriate, and well, here they are.
This is My Song
Lyrics: Lloyd Stone
Music: Jean Sibelius
This is my song, O God of all the nations,
a song of peace for lands afar and mine.
This is my home, the country where my heart is;
here are my hopes, my dreams my holy shrine;
but other hearts in other lands are beating
with hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.
My country's skies are bluer than the ocean,
and sunlight beams on cloverleaf and pine;
but other lands have sunlight too, and clover,
and skies are everywhere as blue as mine.
O hear my song, thou God of all the Nations,
a song of peace for their land and for mine.
After work I plan on stopping by the indoor gun range and putting a lot of holes into a bin laden target (http://www.reloadbench.com/photo/obl8x11.jpg). I went to an outdoor range this past Saturday but didn't get to spend much time shooting. Then I'll go home, hug my family, call the ones I can't hug, maybe go get a beer with some friends.
-Gandalf23
>9/11 has nothing on Pearl Harbor, the way I see it most of the country isn't going to be affected much by the war on terrorism.
Interesting that you say this; a co-worker pointed out to me at lunch how on December 7, 1942, there weren't many commemorative activities for the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Americans were too busy fighting a war!
>The show of pride in America seems to be a shallow gesture.
Yes, and no. There are plenty of shallow people in America. What else do you expect? Then there are plenty whose sense of patriotism isn't revealed by wearing red, white and blue today or desecrating the American flag by displaying one of those rapidly decaying flags on their car. A friend of mine who was being pressured to buy and wear a commemorative flag pin at his work responded by saying "I don't have to wear a flag pin to be proud of my country, and I was patriotic *before* September 11th!" Such people aren't well represented, particularly in the media.
>Nobody is banding together, or making sacrifices for their country they weren't before, except of course the armed forces involved.
That's a big "except." I know people who couldn't but wished they could go into the military to support their country. I know others that are going into the reserves, and there have been plenty of reports of the military having to turn people away for being too old, etc. I was hoping to support the new Homeland Security department until I saw it in a more cynical light. Also, the first time on September 11th last year that I started to tear up was when I saw how in about two hours' time, a van service had been set up at my university to get people to and from the blood bank. We've all heard how the Red Cross ended up with more blood than they knew what to do with. Granted, I don't know how many of those people are still regularly donating, but I'm hoping it's noticeably more than pre-9/11/01.
Alternately, we Americans are ALL letting our politicians sacrifice the Constitution in response to September 11, 2001, aren't we? If that's not big enough for you, what would be?
> I would rather see Americans love their neighbors than flags everywhere.
Good point. In all the ramping up to today's media event, I've seen no reminders of how many non-Americans died in the attacks or of the compassion we initially received from a tremendous number of sources (Britain referring to us as their offspring, playing the American national anthem at the changing of the guard, the Russian town that held a funereal procession, the German(?) submarine that rose to lets its sailors salute our Navy, etc., etc. (Unfortunately, I have no sources for any of these; most of them were anecdotal. I'm hopeful they were in fact true.) It'd be nice if the media would manufacture an international day of thanks when countries could, um, give thanks to each other for their support throughout the generations....
Who moderates the meta-moderators?
Sometimes I wonder if maybe we were all the same things would be different. It's some big cosmic joke, our creators and the natural processes therein find beauty in diversity, but we as a species do not. We hate all that is different and as groups strive to render our species into a physical/spiritual/theological singularity. I wonder where we would be as a world if our urges to dominate and repress were replaced with a willingness to cooperate and celebrate our species diversity. We are all different, but we are all the same. We in a tick of a second on the cosmic clock have changed this world for better and for worse. Where this path will lead us, nodoby knows. What we do know, but dare not contemplate is that we will be our own unmaking. Despite all our technology, our own hatred of each other will consume our minds and energy and waste them on futile fighting while the world slips from beneath our feet. The tragety is that we fight over gifts, given by a roll of the cosmic dice. I hope that as a species we all see the futility and short sightedness of our actions (or the actions of those who don't have the best interest of our species in mind). One day, I hope to build a space ship and leave this land of hatred and bigotry and find a place were people can find harmony.
Too bad it's a bit of a pipe dream, but we can always have hope. Those of the world can steal my freedom, kill my family and poison my water, but they can't take my hope away.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
It's true that Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc. we're different in the way you specify from an American point of view. I'm sure those who are behind the recent attacks on America have plenty of excuses for their agression, just like you seem to have for your countrys acts of murder. They probably think they are fighting a war so terrible and important that these atrocious acts are acceptable means to an end.
The point I was trying to make is that the events of last September do not make the Top Ten list of crimes against humanity. So bollocks to this Political Correctness around the whole fucking thing. If this had happened in some African country it might not have even made it to the news. Did they play the Rwandan national anthem everywhere after the massacres there? Hardly.
Besides, I never said that Americans are biggots per se, but the American government and as it is percieved through the media certainly is.
"Everyone who isn't with us is against us!"
To start with, try the BBC
Even though we are proud over our civilization, we are still animals.
Despite the Dark Ages turned a bit brighter when the Age of Enlightenment (Rennaissance) changed the world long ago, it's still a bit dark.
Religion, superstition and fundamentalism makes up the darkness in our world.
Science, logics, reasoning and liberty are the candles that are still burning, fighting off the darkness.
Terrorism threatens to blow out the candles.
Friendship, understanding and tolerance are yet other candles being lit.
We need more oxygen for these candles...
We need more candles...
Light two candles for today:
Great words by Carl Sagan:
I don't think anybody is beyond hope. How would you feel if you did a major crime and people told you that you were beyond hope, and it's probably better for you if they killed you anyway (rather than trying to rehabiliatize you)?
---*every* religion believes in a god,---
Buzz... no. Buddhism is a religion. So is Taoism. Neither necessarily involve any gods. And indeed, that religions have gods doesn't mean that they think their gods rightfuly determine who lives and who dies. Pantheists don't even necessarily think their god (existence) even has a mind.
---btw, I don't consider atheism a religon. That's like calling anarchy a form of government---
Agreed: but I like this one better: "it's like calling bald a hair color."
until they can reach the doctor's performance. Dr. Goebbels was a genius. Bush is too low IQ to compete with that skinny man.
Eternal Freedom!
Unlimited Justice!
Vivat Empirium Romanum!
The US already attempted a "regime change" in Venezuela this year. This "regime change" was an effort to install a leader that would privatize Venezuela's oil industry. Privatization would allow foreign investors to manipulate the price of oil. Venezuela is an OPEC country so this would have a world-wide effect (imagine Enron on a global scale). If I remember correctly Venezuela broke the oil embargo in the 70's.
To bring us back on topic... The US government does a lot of awful things like this that the people of the US would not approve of. There is no reason a democratic government should be overthrowing other governments. This war, like the war on drugs, is a racket and a sham.
There are a lot of unanswered questions about 9/11. All we can do is continue to search for answers to the questions of who stood down that day and who is making money off this.
Everybody else has a month but me. Until now.
I declare July to be "White American Man History" month.
We will commemorate the accomplishments of white American men:
Democracy, railroads, automobiles, airplanes,
television, highways, and the Internet.
And that's just infrastructure. Let's not forget:
Socket wrenches, Dirty Harry, the fast break,
pizza delivery, Harley-Davidsons, and scoreboards.
Contrary to popular belief and NBC Dateline stories,
not all white American males wear pinstriped suits
and neckties and brainstorm ways to ass fuck the
tired, poor, and huddled masses.
No, there are white American men among us making it
for themselves and others,
and they enjoy the ride to boot.
So July 1, crack open a cold beer,
put some burgers and dogs on the grill,
find a ball game on TV,
and revel in all that white American men have achieved.
The party is getting started and I have sparklers to spare.
Just don't ask me to dance.
I was fortunate.
I did not live in New York.
I did not live in D.C.
I did not lose anyone that day.
At least, anyone I personally knew.
I did, however, lose many people that I did not know. These people were not just all Americans. They were from all over the world. These people represented different ethnicities, religions, regions, businesses, families, etc.
I lost joy in seeing family member after family member holding pictures of their loved ones, wondering if anyone has seen them.
I felt helpless seeing the building collapse, knowing that all I could do is whisper a simple prayer.
I felt torn between my thought of religious tolerence and a new feeling of hatred towards the people who did this in the name of religion.
Yes, I was fortunate.
I married my wife two months and twenty-two days early because her father had been called to active duty. She wanted to make sure that Daddy could see her walk down the aisle.
I help my wife night after night while she cried. We both worried together about my father-in-law. World events left us unsure about what he would really be doing on his mission.
But I was fortunate.
I remember sitting in my home office when an email came from my mother. Something terrible had happened. I rushed to the living room, turned on CNN, and watched as the world seemingly crumbled around us.
I remember my class being cancelled by the professor. My friends and I headed for a dorm room to watch the unfolding events.
I remember the moment of silence in my next class.
I remember the solemn faces of my peers in my last class of the day.
I remember the tribute our university band did for the fallen that next Saturday. I remember being a part of that ensemble.
Yet, I was fortunate.
I renewed my relationship to God. I put my family first. I no longer found material things worth my time. Instead, I found life and the lives of those around being worth my time. I found that love and being loved was the most wonderful feeling in the world. How easy it is to forget this when one is busy.
Yes, I was fortunate. 9-11 opened my eyes, my heart, and my life. It changed me, forced me to do more, and made me be a better person.
Mourning the loss of life,
MunITioN
"A mind is a terrible thing to lose"
How about the american firebombings of germany and
the second a-bomb in japan. These were terror attacks, make no mistake about it.
Before we can "unite" we have to kill the fuckers that are dividing us.
I remember then, as I watched the towers being hit and then tumbling down, thousands of candles being snuffed out, screams swallowed by the roar of concrete shattering, and I ran to this site, to read what others like me were feeling, the outrage, the sadness, the joy that no one we knew were affected, knowing how puny we really are yet find that hard to believe, no matter how different we all seem to be. I felt at home here with all of you, knowing that my fears, my tears, my joy, my sorrow were all being shared with the rest of us.
I decided today not to watch TV and just let the day go as usual. But I felt that I should come back here, to read, to understand, to discuss, to reflect, to contemplate the thousands of souls who lost their lives here and abroad. I mourn the deaths of every single person who died that day and I mourn with their families and the families of the young men who believed they were making a point. I would never want my son, my brother or my father to be in that position and my heart goes out to their families too.
I am glad that we all made it here today.
God Bless.
Rapid Nirvana
The Ku Klux Klan engaged in terrorism in the 50's and 60's because they felt they had no alternative. Should the US have made the KKK feel secure? Should the US have given the KKK a way to exist without desparation? It's a moot point now. The US decided to take the opposite approach. They made the KKK not only feel insecure, but feel utterly hopeless. And thus KKK terrorism stopped. I prefer that approach to yours.
If Slashdot'd stayed true to its slogan, this wouldn't even be here. News for whiners.
One year after 11/9/2001 what has changed?
- Americans lost most of their rights. Your goverment has de jure and de facto given it selfe the power to revoke allmost all human rights from it's citizents.
- The U.S. conquered Afghanistan - an important strategic location in the middle east. Now you have military bases there. Based on some talks you have judged and covicted a nation, and occupied it.
- Thanks to the war american defecne idustry is thriving, exports in defence contracts are also rising, and profits are going up. Also attention is successfully being diverted from home ecconomics, allowing for various manipulations.
- You are preparing to do the same to Iraq. Again, with no proof.
In both cases you are clearly revoking the rights of those people to live in the way they chose to - just based on the claim that it's not democratic. Well, since you don't care about the right's of YOUR citizents I guess it makes sense - but remember - democracy also includes the right to live in an Islam state - if you choose. Or in a totalitarian.
On the other hand you refuse to take a look to who could have profitted from this act - of even to make ANY investigation in your own contry. You just blame the "terroists" without even thinking about trivial stuff like how could this have happened without help from the inside...
To me, as someone who lives in Europe, this lookes like you've been, once again, framed by your own goverment... Yet you refuse even to consider it.
God bless America... You'll need it.
Only 600 posts to go.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
"You seem to be confusing justice with retribution."
Neat trick, considering how I'm not talking about either. Both are a lost cause in this case, unless you are a religious person who believes in "divine justice/retribution/whatever."
I consider capital punishment in this case to be euthanasia. They can't be allowed to continue the way they are unchecked and any other alternative is essentially torture.
"Do you remember the dates Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed?"
The need for the use of the atomic bombs on Japan in August, 1945 can be seen in the way that two were required.
Hint #1: the war in Afghanistan was not a "so-called" war. It was, and is a war. "So-called" isn't a phrase to be casually added to things you don't like. Hint #2: if you think there was no evidence giving cause to this war, you clearly have not been keeping up with the news. Hint #3: the state of war with Iraq begun in 1991 never ended. There is still a war on. No need for the scare quotes. And W's main reason for wanting it done is to get it over with beore Saddam ets some new toys. Hint #4: The legalities behind Lindh and Padilla's handling are indeed controversial. But the charges are not at all spurious. Hint #5: Nothing wrong with Guantanamo. The inmates live more comfortably than their guards there. Hint #6: The US has as much right to effect regime changes as every other country that has set out to do such things. It's a jungle out there. Hint #7: the Middle East is actually improving right now. It's been a while since the last suicide bombing, and Hamas is almost defunct. Then again, in your view that might be a worsening. Hint #8: if as far as you can see, this war effort is motivated by revenge, then you are quite myopic. Hint #9: those international criminal courts have are lacking in the same constitutional safeguards whose erosion you complained about earlier. The US is right to oppose them.
I am impressed by the fact that slashdot turned off banners today. I have to say one thing. I expected to see today a lot of cars with flags. But boy, i am disappointed. This shows how quicky we are in forgetting history.
"I don't think anybody is beyond hope. How would you feel if you did a major crime and people told you that you were beyond hope, and it's probably better for you if they killed you anyway (rather than trying to rehabiliatize you)?"
Not familiar with the concept of triage yet, are you? I envy you. I'm not saying that it's all fun and games, I'm saying it's something that needs to be done.
Since this is ultimately something that needs to be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, how about the case in question? How would you try to rehabilitate someone who holds so little value in human life as to kill several thousand in a single act and then laugh about it later? What can possibly be done for someone that can organize what happened on 9/11 and then continue to sleep soundly at night? I see no self-doubt in bin Laden at all and I don't believe there's a cure for that.
My saying this probably won't hold much sway with you, but if I were in bin Laden's shoes, I certainly hope someone would kill me.
Dancing in the streets a year ago wasn't enough for the only culture in the entire history of mankind that publicly celebrates mass murder. They want to do it again a year later.
The first thought that popped into my head was not about the horror of the event or even those who dies but rather a disturbed feeling that this is the start of a long erosion of everyone's rights
The first thought that popped into my head when I read this post is "damn, what a selfish, insensitive person." People are dying, lives are being changed forever, and the first thought has nothing to do with the horror but with the erosion of liberties?
Today, a year later, I don't feel much grief for those 600 or so foreign nationals and the one American who faces military justice. They'll still see a more fair justice system than they would in their native countries, or in Padilla's case the country he chose as his new home.
Giving up a little freedom (and I haven't noticed losing any) is a sacrifice I am willing to make until this thing is over. And compared to the sacrifices that police and rescue in NYC made last year, well it doesn't even compare and it is just unbelievably selfish to even try.
'Same speed C but faster'
Who created bin Laden?
Who created Saddam Hussein?
Who created the Shah of Iran, which gave rise to the Islamic takeover of Iran?
Who created Noriega?
Look in the mirror.
Each of the above were created and installed into power by western intelligence (sic) agencies.
What do you expect bin Laden to do after we teach him to fight the commies in Afghanistan and then turn our backs on him?
What do you expect him to do after he gets bombed in a wag the dog because of a stained blue dress?
The pendulum of a half century of foreign interventionism is swinging back.
The beast has come home to roost.
Liberty is not a concept... Liberty is a way of life!!!
for some facts and figures on the attitudes of the American and European public on a range of foreign policy issues post-September 11.
Our Home, Sweet Home.
In short (too late!), American culture is taking over the world. We aren't forcing it, people choosed what they like. Other cultures are getting forced out and feel threatened. The resulting fear turns to hatred of America and Americans. We are a "corrupting" influence. And we do take for granted freedoms and benefits others can only dream of.
We aren't forcing it at gunpoint, we're forcing it through much subtler means of economic pressure.
Also, many European countries who consider American culture a corrupting influence have freedoms and benefits that Americans can only dream of: Freedom to drink at any ago, freedom for gays, universally available quality healthcare and education... US is not the only country with a powerful constitution, it's merely the most powerful country around.
-Lars
This reminds me of: The Joe Canadian Rant:
Hey, I'm not a lumberjack, or a fur trader....
I don't live in an igloo or eat blubber, or own a dogsled....
and I don't know Jimmy, Sally or Suzy from Canada,
although I'm certain they're really really nice.
I have a Prime Minister, not a president.
I speak English and French, not American.
And I pronounce it 'about', not 'a boot'.
I can proudly sew my country's flag on my backpack.
I believe in peace keeping, not policing,
diversity, not assimilation,
and that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal.
A toque is a hat, a chesterfield is a couch,
and it is pronounced 'zed' not 'zee', 'zed' !!!!
Canada is the second largest landmass!
The first nation of hockey!
and the best part of North America
My name is Joe,
and I am Canadian!!!
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Ha, ha, that's funny.
And he would be making money from what? The complete lack of advertising on the site? Maybe the likelihood that it isn't even his site and that he's just got a free membership like about 3700 other people.
-no broken link
Lighters commemorating 9/11 attack seized en route to Gaza (Communicated by the ISA (Shabak) )
Tuesday, September 10, 2002 In the context of the monitoring process carried out by security forces in order to uncover the smuggling of arms and ammunition to the Palestinian Authority, cigarette lighters depicting the attack on the World Trade Center next to an image of Osama Bin Laden, were found. The lighters were to be sold in Palestinian Authority areas.
In June 2002, the security forces carried out an inspection of crates that had arrived in the port of Ashdod. The crates were destined for the Palestinian Authority. In the course of the inspection of the containers - that were supposed to have contained toys - weapons, including pistols, were seized.
Also found were lighters depicting the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center of September 11, along with an image of Osama Bin Laden. The lighters were intended for a Palestinian dealer in Khan Yunis, in the Gaza Strip.
The planned distribution of these lighters in the Palestinian Authority was designed to be yet another expression of support for the terrorist attacks carried out by al-Qaeda organization, such as occurred in the Palestinian Authority in the aftermath of the September 11th attacks. Last year's expression of support included the distribution of sweets in the streets of the Palestinian Authority after the attacks, as well as mass celebrations in which shots were fired in the air as a mark of joy. Adults and children were seen waving pictures of bin Laden in Palestinian streets. In addition, leaflets were distributed in the Palestinian Authority emphasizing the importance of Jihad and calling on Muslims to stand up and take pride in their victory over the United States.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
What kind of liberty does a dead-man enjoy?
What kind of life does a slave enjoy?
Sitting here reading through most everyone's posts, I'll comment instead of moderate.
Remembering a year before, even if a bit overdone, is very acceptable. Thousands of people died and no matter what the situation, it's unforgivable.
But not just for America.
Natural disasters that a few people posted about aside, the death toll as a result of direct US policy or US support in other nations rivals that the US has experienced as well. A person is a person, no matter what the nationality of the situation. What this should have served as was a wake-up call, but instead it's been tied together with all sorts of rightist political agenda and lives will have ultimately be lost in vain.
One of the comments heard over and over again today (I live in NYC) was about how the US needs to capture and do something pretty bad to Osama bin Laden. What most fail to recognize is that this isn't about one person, one group, one people or one incident.
By father is a landlord. His tenant has a water leak in the wall and asked my father when he was going to fix it.
He rejoined: "Once I find the leak."
This should be the number 1 priority.
No matter what the military action is taken by the US, it will not prevent attacks like this in the future. Catch Osama bin Laden, it'll be bin Akbar, bin Hossein. It's time to admit fault. Despite claims of jingoistic slashdotters claiming "The US is the best super-power there is"... the US is the only real super-power nowadays and it abuses it. A track record from the Cold War goes on and on and recently: the unconditional support of Israel, the attempted coup of Hugo Chavez, the questionable casualities in Afghanistan, the blind-eye being turned to the Northern Alliance's brutality and what seems to be the pending mistake of attempting to invade Iraq.
Should the people of America be held responsible for the mistakes of their country? Absoutely not, despite what someone posted about the people of a country being held accountable for the acts of their country (in that case, being used as a Pro-America argument). However, there will always be backlashes. Some will just be dormant hatred for the politics of this country. Some will be protest. Some will be boycotts. Some will be demonstrations. And some will be violence directed at innocent civilians.
Terrorists are not bred; they're created. Regardless of what the chmerical claims of the populus of this country is, middle easterns are not raised, for the most part, hating Jews, hating America, yada yada yada.
But it's an easy transition.
Respect those who have died, but from both sides.
Learn from history.
Or you're doomed to repeat it.
This
interview with Ralph Bodenstein, who worked with him on a universoty project in Hamburg, gives an interesting look at Atta's mindset. See also
Hamburg's Cauldron of Terror.
There is only one thing that can end terrorism. Nano-bots. Enough said.
~eville
~shasasmoker@hotmail.com
He can't sign something that guts the Constitution, unless it is also upheld by the Supreme Court. It also seems like everyone is forgetting that it was first passed by overwhelming margins in both the Senate -- 98-1 -- and the House of Representatives -- 356-66. I don't like the Patriot Act any more than you do, but it's not entirely the work of GW Bush.
Every point you made here is absolutly true and only goes to prove that the Government as whole is the largest threat to our freedom, not just "Terrorists" and "Liberials" as the idiot who I was responding to said.
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
At the time, I believed I might well have lost a friend who worked in the WTC. It turned out that he had quit just before, and he wasn't in the building. My worries for him and my grief were mixed with a healthy sense of worry for what would happen to civil rights, and what the government might use this as an excuse to do. Planning and worrying about the future does not somehow lessen the past and present.
Lea
Agreed.
I'm not a big fan of Feingold, but it took balls the size of church bells to be the only senator who voted against the Patriot Act.
I think that you are missing one small but important point on this.
Intent.
There is a large gap between targeting a military complex and catching a few innocent people and directly targeting innocent people, who have no military value.
So in your opinion it was ok for Al Quada to attack that US destroyer and Pentagon?
Until WW2 that is.
Neural Nets in Python
There are hundreds of images in there that have never made it to the media, images that were passed to me on irc the day it happened, from people in NY with cameras, out of their apartments, from their dorms, everywhere. There's a few gruesome pictures of human parts falling from the buildings, as well as images of "jumpers".
To those we have lost, we mourn you, and to those who remain, we feel your pain.
We are wired, we are strong, and we are pissed!
Summer 2001 was my last time in NYC, and I was running late when I caught the PATH train back to NJ, departing from the WTC. I wanted to see the observation deck, but decided that I would see it next time in NYC. A notion flashed in my mind that I may die before I make it back to see the World Trade Center.
Never in my wildest thoughts did I ever believe I would outlive the WTC.
Maybe it's just this kind of upsetting reality that challenges me to remember who and what is truly important in my life, and just what I am willing to give to become united with my fellow humans who enjoy their freedom too.
Suncoast Linux - Sarasota, FL
or, if I can spell "thanks" phonetically in Turkish, "Tayshaykuerederem". I'm a Canadian blond bearded and blue eyed (some of my relatives' eye colours served as models for the "evil eye") who felt much more at home in Istanbul than in London. I enjoyed your country's great courtesy and welcome when I've had the priviledge of visiting, and I now drink my tea in tall glasses! You may have met some of my countrymen in Kandahar, while four of our troops died in Afghanistan from friendly fire. Thanks for the great job you're doing there. I am sorry that Bulgaria tried to forceably change the surnames of its Turkish citizens to more "Bulgarian" ones, and I hope you will in no way find it uncomfortable to consider that it would be worthwhile to teach your country's students that (1) the massacre of Armenians was a bad thing, but that an even worse thing is failing to acknowledge ones own history and (2) the Kurds, like Canada's Quebeckers, have every right to speak their own language, and, should they democratically choose to do so, separate from the rest of Turkey. In Canada, we have prevented this separation despite two referenda by the expedient of making sure people want to stay in Canada, rather than by force of arms, but when a violent terrorist campaign resulted in kidnappings and death, did not hesitate to activate the War Measures Act. I like Turkey, and I think if you give the Kurds the choice of living in a democratic Turkey that respects their language and religion, you will ensure Kurds will want to continue to live there. If I may be allowed to make an overgeneralization, I think that Turkey is truly a great nation. Good luck and "Gulay gulay".
It would seem appropriate at this time to look back to see how America has changed, specifically in its relationship with other countries.
Actually, in Europe you are now viewed as a bit of a bully. We do sympathize with you for the 911 attack, and we supported you in Afganisthan, but your tendency to just act as a bully in foreign relations has quite taken away the goodwill you got after 911.
The issues that currently makes you unpopular is the boycotting of the Kyoto agreement, the refusal to acknowledge the international war crimes tribunal (but you still want to act the worlds cop..), the (probable) attacking of Iraq, and the massive backing of Israel.
We are still allies, and we really want to still be friends, but your administration need to wake up and see that there are other nations in this world too.
What goes on at "GatMo" is a violation of human rights, including the United Nations' Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States was one of the original signitories. Of course, it was drafted by a Canadian, so it must be commie-inspired.
As long as US people are refusing to think about how the actions of their country are inflicting extensive suffering in other parts of the world, as long your skyscrapers might continue coming down. Think about it.
Am I the only one who's completely tired of the 'news' coverage of this event? I mean, for over a year now I've had people telling me I need to 'remember' and 'pay tribute' to our 'fallen heroes.' Almost invariably, the best way to do so is by buying some memento which they're conventiently selling for the low price of $19.99.
I think I'll spend the day commemorating with one of the over 150 books written about 9/11. Which one should I choose? Maybe 'Let's Roll' or 'Above Hallowed Ground.' Or there's the ones featuring children's art, or the impact of terrorist attacks on the gay community. At last check there are some 911 books on amazon.com dealing with the subject.
When I tire of reading a book I can browse some of the thousands of pictures taken that day, or perhaps just kick back with the 'special edition' of any given newspaper filled with pages of 'stories' which are little more than people complaining and wondering what rationale there is for such an attack. Or I could watch the six-hour special today show, or check out Barbara Walters as she sits in on grief conseling sessions with the families. If that's not enough I can check out the Spike Lee special with films 'inspired' by the events of 9/11. As if the normally anti-establishment Spike Lee getting in on the action isn't enough, even ESPN is trying their hand at news and covering 9/11 with a documentary about flight 93.
In short, I'm sick of the sensationalist propoganda surrounding what was certainly one of the nation's worst tragedies in history. I'm tired of people hawking 9/11 commemorative pins as if a pin will make a difference. I don't need an FDNY t-shirt, thank you. I refuse to take part in a 'moment of silence' or wear red white and blue to work. I refuse to purchase any publication with any sort of special edition or expanded coverage. I will not watch people crying on TV over their lost loved ones. I won't look at pictures of the orphaned babies who are somehow more worthy of our attention than the thousands of others orphaned in the year since 9/11. I will not let terrorism change my life as it has apparently changed everyone else's for the past year. I won't give in to the pressures of a society which is apparently hated by a good portion of the world.
We allow our capitalism to destroy the message of what really happened and why, and then the next time we'll wonder why anyone could despise us so greatly. Ratings, Money, Stock prices, these are our Gods. The tragedy of what happened is only a means through which we come closer to them. What kind of people would take part in an attack on innocent civilians? Clearly evil ones. What kind of people will spend a year making money off that in an orgy of patriotism and memorial gone wrong? I'll leave that to you to decide.
This really is a holy war, but maybe it's less about Allah and more about Dollahs.
(end rant)
YHL. HAND.
Do you know when the 3rd atomic bomb was dropped on a civilian population?
There wasn't one... Because deterence was able to work after Stalin saw that his ass could be vaporized!
Tournament Management Online &
Germany... Yes... It was unnecessary to be that cruel...
Japan? That's harder, since they should have surrendered immediately! Also had Stalin not started to move, they could have waited another 24 hours...
Tournament Management Online &
Ditto... The point is be reserved and heisitent in judgement not abandon it altogether
"A good friend will bail you out of jail. A true friend will be sitting next to you saying, 'damn....that was fun!'"
I just went back and re-read some of the /. posts from 9/11/01. oh man, makes me sick all over again.
My sweet, gentle wife says we should kick Iraq's ass next before Saddam hands a nuke over to Osama. I say we should let him, wait until it goes off somewhere, then nuke the whole region back into the Stone Age for the favor. So I guess that makes her a relative peace activist. Interesting times we live in.
It's the fact that american citizens don't give a damn about what are doing outside the USA their goverment or corporations. Sweatshops? Well, they are better than without work, isn't it? Puppet goverments and dictators in the middle east or Latin America? Well but they are our allies, aren't they? Oh! they are killing people! well, they must be killing comunist or terrorist freaks, rigth?
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
I think its an insult to all the people who have died in war that america focuses on its loss as if those people( yes i know they came around the world ) are the only people to have every died in tragedy. Americans needs to wake up to themselves and learn more about the world instead of being so self centered thinking they are the center of the universe. 99% of them probably dont even know where afghanistan is on a map. THe sad thing is americans think they stand for freedom, yet they are often the source off support for the worse scum on the earth.
Dont ask any chileans about Pinochet and how the cia helped him. The same goes for Argentina and its military rulers a while back. What about the overthrow of the democratic government of Iran before the Ayatollah, The support of a pathetic government in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other oil barons. If you love freedom so much why do you support the later and their insults to their women, foreigners and so many other humanities.
And anohter point,, why is it so bad for Saddam to have weapons of mass destruction? People say because he attacks his neighbours... HOw many countries has America invaded inthe past 20 years ? How many people have died in its bombings( anyone crying for the weddings in Afghanistan ). The strange thing is America itself has the base with largest stockpile of chemical stockpiles. This was in a mainstream paper. Why is it okay for America to have such weapns of mass destruction ? Why has George promised to destroy these weapons ?
How many people died in Rwanda? Many more than on 9/11 so America shut up and stop crying, the line is long and your story is no way near the most impressive.
Please watch this. It really touches you. http://www.microwinder.com/tribute/tribute.htm
That's funny, cause the Afghani's were just so happy to hear songs about 'putting a boot in their ass'. They were going to concerts and everything..oh wait...that was the Americans.. but it's ok, our celebration of agression is justified. Their's isn't, cause they're just a bunch of backward people who believe in a book of crazy made up stuff.
It seems fair to allow someone to cheer for a side in war, despite the unspeakable reality of the actions.
"It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth."
These are the words Morpheus uses in "The Matrix" to describe the alternate reality of the Matrix to Neo.
But think about it, how far from the truth are we?
One year ago exactly, a terrible tragedy occurred which destroyed almost 3000 people. Airliners were hijacked and made into missles to destroy only the largest building in the US and supposedly the most safest place in world, the Pentagon. If this was a movie scenario, it would seem too grand and absurd to be real; however, it is real.
Suddenly there is a war in Afghanistan. A war against terrorism, a obscure and blurry enemy, who never remains fully visible or even the same.
Flash forward to the ousting of the Taliban. US and Northern Alliance forces seize back Afghanistan from "terror". Now there is a controversial oil pipeline running through that country and the rights of American citizens being taken away here in the States. Wire taps, invasion of privacy, and the new ability to imprison American citizens (ala Jose Padilla) without a trial or the premise of "innocent until proven guilty" takes precedence to "fight terror". The American President is looking to start a new war on a country that poses no evident threat to the US. It also turns out that this country has the second largest reserves of oil in the world.
What has happened? Was 9-11 a terrible tragedy commited by heinous madmen using Islam for their justifications, or is it a convenient vehicle somehow construed to enable future wars to occur? Did somebody let 9-11 go by with the understanding that Americans would lose more rights after this tragedy and be easier to monitor and control? Does "fighting terrorism" offer enough support and justification for bombing other countries for no valid reason?
Is there another world out there that only the rich elite in higher power know about and manipulate every day?
I don't know, but if there is, 3,000 lives are not worth it.
You can flame me and call me a nut if you want, but all I ask is that you think about it.
IGB: More fun than eating oatmeal!
I really don't understand this. People all over the world mourn these things. Nobody in Israel or Ireland or Pakistan says "Hmm? Another Car bombing? Oh well." Not even in the US.
It's a fact that the closer to home such an event is, the more it hurts. When was the last time 3,000 people were killed in a single angry blow in this country?
We Mourned after the Civil War, after World War I and II, so why can't we mourn now?
This has nothing to do with how big the United States is. What I want to know is why so many people have to pretend that our suffering isn't worth acknowledging?
Let me throw a quick question at you: Is it better to lose a relative suddenly and without warning to natural causes, or to have them linger for days or weeks? Which family suffers more?
The answer: Both. Grief is personal and cannot be compared to another person's experience. I've lost family both ways, and neither was easy.
So in closing, you can not make me feel guilty for feeling mournful about the loss of innocent people.
Stop trying.
If you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Maybe the third,fourth, fifth......one thousand bombs should be dropped on all those Arabs. We are still waiting for Justice for what they did. They have run their fucking countries to the ground with their religious. Its about time they find out what messing with America really means.
This is the greatest day of them all. Even beats christmast. No banners on websites and gnutellaprograms. It is so great. One day down 364 days to go ;-)
Seriously. America has done so many bad things to world that I would`t know where to start. And it seems like that Americans have yet learned to behave.
The guys in the EU is trying to solve, like one smarter Bill said it, "this food- and airdeal". Meanwhile Americans is trying to raipe Irak ones more of the horror of terror.
I`m just going to say this so everyone knows:
We all know you are after the oil in the Middeleast. Stop doing that. If the people of America thinks it right to fuck nations over and steeling their oil, then you will have the hole world against you....wait a second....you already have! HAHAHA.
Fact: 70% of the european people already hate your guts. That`s an increase of 20% within a year.
"Oh my God! There are terrorists everywhere!!"
So I just sitting back here, smiling of your sorry asses, and thinking "what goes around, comes around. And there is alot of causes still going around and getting stronger"
Come to Norway fuckers, and I will fist your asses.
They got what they deserved. They should not have messed with us.
I wasn't implying others didn't have strong Constitutions, just that only the U.S. had the whole enchilada.
Freedom to drink at any age doesn't strike me as earth-shattering. Not being able to consume alcohol in public until you reach 21 is hardly revolution-inspiring.
Freedom for gays varies from country to country, and in the U.S. from State to State. Several U.S. States are quite accepting and others are moving along.
Universally available quality healthcare and education. Universally available quality education IS available in the U.S. No, each school is not the same, nor do the receive the same funding. However, environment and parent participation are both larger factors than $$ in education quality. (Yes, I have 3 kids in U.S. schools.) We aren't #1 in the world in schools, but we aren't on bottom, either.
As far as healthcare -- it isn't legal for a hospital in the U.S. to turn away an emergency patient for lack of funds or insurance. Our healthcare is THE best in the world. Where do people fly to when they need top notch care? The Mayo Clinic, Shriner's Burn Hospitals, Johns Hopkins. Does everyone get equal treatment and equal access to ALL services? Nope. Some treatments cost more than others and that is a fact of life.
Healthcare may be "free" in Canada, France, Sweden and others but you pay thru nose in taxes for it. We choose not to. You also have longer waits for non-emergency services. I can schedule a non-emergency procedure and get in for almost anything in hours to days.
And for the record, I lived for 5 years in Europe (Spain) in the mid 1980s. I've also been back for business several times since -- three times this year alone. I really like Europe, but you can keep Socialism -- it isn't worth the cost.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
and finally (especially for us Brits) helped fund the IRA - who have been systimatically blowing up and killing people in both the UK and Ireland for well over 20 years.
I don't think many people agree with the IRAs methods. But its worth pointing out the IRA wouldn't have existed had Britain not invaded the country, starved its inhabitants to death, burned down people's homes, stopped people from speaking their native language, violently discriminated against those who didn't adopt a foreign religion, and started transplanting people from other countries into areas cleared of natives in an attempt to Anglicise the country.
Killing innocents is wrong. Both sides of that war are guilty, and could be classified as terrorists.
We're not the ones strapping bombs and killing women and childen. Its the Arabs who are doing this. Get your facts straight. The best thing to do to this region of the world is to drop a couple of nukes and watch them fuckers fry.
Really? Not to sound like a troll, and not having read the last two books yet, I don't recall a SINGLE point where Gandalf actually killed anyone.
:-)
Fought yes. Killed? Perhaps it was the goblins in the caves of Moria? Do you count the trolls in "The Hobbit"?
I mean, I always considered Gandalf to be the epitome of Neutral Good... Went out of his way to do the right thing, but never tipped the scales in favor of good or evil either way...
I'm just curious.
-Chris
So in your opinion it was ok for Al Quada to attack that US destroyer and Pentagon?
From a military stand-point, yes.
Both of those are valid military targets. While I don't like the idea of our soldiers being killed, in a war-time situation those are acceptable targets. Mind you, the use of a civilian plane, with civilians on-board is questionable as a vaild way to perform an attack. Though I will grant that under the logic of what is a blatant attack on civilians and what is collateral damage, the civilans on the plane could be viewed as collateral damage. Though in counter-argument to that conclusion there would be the question of, could the goal have feseably been acheived without the substantial loss of civilian life? If the goal was simply to create terror, then that answer is no, and thus the use of the airliner was a blatant attack on civilians. Again, it comes down to intent. What was the goal of the attack, and why were the methods choosen?
Let us go out on a limb for a second and assume that the goal of the attack on the Pentagon was intended to disrupt the US Military Command and Control, and prevent a quick response. Further we have to accept the, probably false, assumption that the loss of the Pentagon would cripple US Military C&C. So, what were the options? An air strike was out, the likelyhood of a bomber penetrating US airspace and getting inside the DC area is low, it would have been perceived as a threat and shot down by the time it got over the land. A land based bomb might have stood a better chance, but it would have been too small to do any real damage. Flying an airliner into the Pentagon is a pretty attractive choice at this point, if its fuel tanks are full it might cause a lot of damage, not to mention that its unlikely to be perceived as a threat until far too late. Only downside to this is the high civilian casualties, if you don't care about this problem, this is where you might stop thinking. But there was another option that they missed. Ok, they have accepted that the pilot is going to be lost, and they want to cause a good sized explosion. Buy a small jet, pack it with explosives and fly that into the target. It would have had the same benifit of suprise, and might have provided for a bigger bang, plus fewer civilians killed.
So in the end, yes, I think that the two attacks you put forward were valid military targets, though the method of attack choosen on the Pentagon was invalid. Though keep in mind, one shouldn't be suprised when the US military turns around and opens a can of whoop-ass on them.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Hey there, I'm italian. Over here we're overwhelmed with rethoric speeches and enthusiastic interviews on Bush's next round; and all US news we get is either filtered by Berlusconi's media or is FOX :-(
I'm curious to know Powell's position on this policy. Being an ex soldier he keeps an astonishingly low profile and this makes me think he doesn't fully agree with the warmongering of his boss. Does he think the executive isn't taking the right decisions but rather breeding more resentment against the american people (actually the whole western world)?
Here's my 2c (very IMHO):
The US helped us out of misery in the aftermath of WWII. Your leaders had fresh memory of the fall of the Weimar Republic to the nazi and of the conditions that determined it (national humiliation and economic disaster for imperial Germany as it lost WWI). This produced more that 50 years of peace, prosperity and peace (... some might argue, but...) Two weeks ago Bush zeroed the UN's Forum for developing countries and environment preservation (water, food, developement, fair trade); today he's preparinng your country for another expedition (and plastic bag count).
Short to exterminating a couple of countries worth of extremists there's nothing a military solution can do. The US generals that helped us out of the fascist folly knew perfectly well how to turn Europe in a collaborative ally.
It's not comforting to see a soldier that played the game first hand thoroughly avoid trumpeting the pentagon propaganda but stand by the civilians. It's like insisting on a stupid haircut against the barber's suggestion...
Mi domando chi à il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan
I am sorry if I can't be so beligerent as some people seem to be. Although I have political differences with the powers that be I must remember today as the day the terrorists killed my only brother. Jonathan J. Uman was only 34, recently married and just had his second child. He worked for eSpeed on the 105th floor of the 1st tower of the WTC. I live in the San Francisco bay area, and woke up to the news. My father called me to tell me my brother was confirmed to be in the building at the time of the impact. This news was devastating to both my mother and my father, and his wife and children.
All contempt aside, this day is a day which our country, the United States has never seen the likes of before. This is an historic event, and when they read my brothers name at the cerimonies today I was reminded that me and my family will forever be reminded of his death, and his life. I look at those people who take this event and mock it, those who are 'tired' of the commercialization of the event. I am tired of that too, but there is more to this, a human quality which extends beyond that capitalistic desire. I am tired of all the flag waving, but 2,800 some odd people perished in a couple of moments.... That is quite tragic, and nothing they did would make them deserve the death they received. It was a horrible, horrible death... Burning and falling, screaming and being crushed. I have pictured the event over and over, and have to watch it over and over while watching the news.
I believe in a future where mankind lives in peace and prosperity. In my speech for my brothers memorial I mentioned my desire to live like Roddenberry depicted in Star Trek, a world without hunger and a world where people strive to make things better. This is an optimistic goal, and one which I have begun to question as I believe that human nature is possibly more ugly than I wanted to admit.
I don't want my brothers death to cause more unwarranted death in the world. I want to make things better by looking at the problems we have, analyzing them, and making educated decisions. I don't believe the administration is doing that at this time. But that is another story...
Thank you,
Michael A. Uman
Sr Software Engineer
softwaremagic.net
Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I think you are speaking in ignorance about Gandalf, and about Tolkein in general. The obligatory counter example is that Gandalf beheads the Goblin King in The Hobbit, but there are others. I have read Tolkein fairly extensively, though, and there is no "Neutral Good" in Tolkein's works. There is Good - the things of Illuvatar (God) and the Aindule - which is kinda like the fate- it is harmony and the song of existence, if you will. Then there is evil- it is chaotic, and a shadow and twisting of Good. There is no neutral anywhere.
I don't respect your opinions, but I respect your right to hold them
In fact, many guns in Afghanistan came from the US during the cold war. I saw a documentary telling that when a kid was killed, the tv reporters insisted on the fact that he was killed with US guns. I think repetition of this kind of information is likely to provoque hate. By the way, it also mentioned that Ousama Ben Laden was hired by US at a time to fight in Afghanistan.
I've seen a lot of posts about people worried about the civil rights of suspected terrorists. Just wondering how practical it would be to fight a guerrilla war in a public courtroom? How effective is it to eliminate enemy combatant when you need to publically display all the evidence needed to convict the suspected terrorist. It would certainly give away your position to let your enemy know exactly what you know about him. It may even compromise agents and informants. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just wondering if people have really considered the consequences of what they would like the government to do in the war on terrorism. It seems people are saying the government can't be trusted at all and if given extra powers to fight this war, they will be abused. Is this really a practical position to hold? I don't have the answers, but I think people here may see things a little too black and white.
Vote for Pedro
There comes a point where talk is counterproductive. Sanctions only do so much. Containing Yugoslavia was the preferred method for Western Europe to manage the Balkans. The result was a free hand for Milosovic to purge and pillage throughout the region. He refused to comply with the simplist UN requests, and when the UN decided to let its troops become hostages, the US prodded NATO to get involved before the surrounding nations did become drawn into a larger war.
Talking to Saddam Hussein did nothing for the Kuwaitis who were being extinguished, whose lives were being erased as Iraqi forced destroyed any records that might have contradicted the story they gave the world.
In the end, it was our talking and economic sanctions, not our military intervention, that brought the Japanese to bomb Pearl Harbor.
Discussion and compromise did nothing for the Jews in Germany, Poland, or Chechoslovakia. Debate did not shield the Chinese of Shanghai or the vitims of the Soviet gulags.
I suggest that a closer review of history will bear out the suggestion that military might is the only sure way to stop the mass death of innocents when ambitous tyrants such as Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden challenge domestic tranquility at home and abroad. Easing the US stance towards Iraq and al-Qaida will only provide them more opprotunites to cause harm.
#-#
Ad Astra Per Aspera
A rough road leads to the stars
The real reason why Americans are hated is chiefly related to American foreign policy. Obviously 19-20 people did not fly across the world and commit suicide because they're bothered by America culture, that's ridiculous. The leaders of the attacks knew what they were going to bring down on the middle east. You have to assume that the leaders had a reason, a strong motivation.
1 reason is America's support of Israel. 60 years ago there was no such thing as Isreal at all. 200 years ago, 300 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago, there was no Jewish state. The last Jewish empire was conquered by the Romans sometime during the BC period, I believe the last uprising was around 300 BC. All of a sudden, the holocaust (a great tragedy by the way) occurs and for political and perhaps moral reasons the UN helped the Jewish people start the country of Israel. What do you think the natives think? These people are kicked out of their homes and when they fight back America provides weapons to Israel. There is great resentment over this.
There is great resentment over the Iraqi war of 1991? While this would seem a perfectly justifiable encounter, please remember that America supported Iraq and provided much of their weapons during periods of the Iran-Iraq war.
At the same time, America was supported Afganistan. They provided weapons and training and urged (there was a proposed peace treaty) the Afghanis to fight on. After the Soviets withdrew what happened? America never emerged to heal Afghanistan, there was no longer any military need.
Another issue, is the prescense of American troops in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia, I will remind you, contains some of the most holy sites of Islam. It is considered a great dishonour for America to be there.
These are all very basic and documented points. Not that I mean to criticize the States, I believe somebody has to take an interest in world affairs. However, I think in certain case more prudence and consideration of long-term consequences could have been implemented.
That freedom ties with truth for the first casualty of war.
That the very definitions of "war", "peace" and the difference between them may be among the first truths to die.
That you can sell anything - economically or politically - by appealing to patriotism and/or grief.
That patriotism, as Bierce knew, is indeed the first refuge of the scoundrel.
Sometimes the lesson of great loss and pain is that trite cliches became banal and worn out for a reason.
And sometimes, it can be hard to distinguish the pain of the learning from the pain of the lesson learned.
- An Anonymous Legal Alien
That our capacity to suffer fools isn't limitless, for example.
I was home that day. Out of work (since resolved, thanks), and had the day to watch tv. I remember the estimates, 50K, 20K, 10K, 5K. A tremendous number of lives were saved that day. I wonder just how many did escape murder.
What I remember most was coverage from the middle east. There was dancing and celebration in the streets. Egypt, Saudi, Palestine, Jordan. Syria. People dancing and burning US flags. I only saw it that day. Since, it has never been mentioned again. No replays, no follow-ups. Obvious censorship, after all, some of those countries were our friends, they never did that.
I remember.
Tom Beard
ThomasRBeard@softhome.net
The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
ummm.... you tast nice, like a nice fat capatilist pig.
What the fuck would i do with money you fool. I don't want you fucked up capatilist food, or fucked up capitalist schools.
some kid in russia brainwashed with your fucked up ideas, poor fucker, I'd rather live a life not knowing what the fucks going around your head, but unfortunatly you wouldn't let me.
Even when killing them it is not something to take joy in, you should still be saddened that these people were mis-guided in life that they could not live. They still deserve to die though....
so is half of America, but whos counting....
Ahhh, but you have to CHOOSE our culture. You choose to buy those jeans, that Starbucks, that Big Mac. We may be setting up shop, but you don't have to buy. Euro-Disney didn't exactly set Europe on fire, did it? You are also forgetting that many of the "freedoms" you list are abundant in America and most often of a much higher quality.
He's not saying it's justified, he's just putting it in context in the same way that the US bombings on Japan were in context.
In the US's eyes it was completely justifiable to destroy two entire cities in Japan due to their attacks on the US. In OBL's eyes it was completely justifiable to destroy the WTC due to the US's policies and actions in many countries around the world.
There aren't many people who would agree with the actions of OBL, or say that he was justified on committing these acts, but by the same token, you are condemning a far too wide group of people to death because of the actions of a few. In just the same way, it could have been argued that all Americans should have been killed because of their bombing of Japan.
He was drawing parallels, and quite well. There absolutely is no "good" and "bad", there are only varying degrees of grey... and it all depends on just how close to black you're willing to get as to what side you decide to play on.
Myself? I abhor what was done on that day, I was in San Francisco at the time (I'm from Australia), and was absolutely stunned, shocked and horrified by what happened, it was truly horrific. However, while there is no way to defend what they did, I can see some of the reasons why they did, and I don't agree with everything that the US has done in terms of supplying arms to countries, siding with countries based on their own, internal and political agendas etc. I also feel exactly the same way about Australia and its foreign and internal policies.
The point is... far too many people take the easy option of painting OBL et al as pure evil and America and her allies as pure, shining good... it just ain't like that folks... I would go to war to defend Australia, and most likely the US if need be... because I agree, in an overall view, with their vision for what a country should be... it's just always screwed up by individual politicians and industry...
On flight 93, the passengers fought back.
There are several glaring omissions from the official record of the final minutes of FLight 93. The anomalous debris pattern and the apparent loss of all onboard recording equipment means that an accurate record can not be made. Instead, what we have is mythmaking.
Several ground-based observers have described a large explosion on-board. Several passengers phoned to say one of the hijackers was wearing what looked like an explosive vest.
Also, it's important to note that only the flight cockpit hijackers knew they were on a suicide mission -- and their identities are still suspect. At least three of them appear to have used identity theft to hide their real identities. They were mercenaries, professional Islamist soldiers. Most of the rest of the hijackers were dupes, simple goon muscle lied to by their masters and convinced they were on a standard hijacking mission.
It's at least as likely that they were the ones who struggled onboard Flight 93 to regain control. After all, they were armed.
Da Blog
Read the link in my sig.
Some stuff for the lameness filter.
Some more stuff.
-no broken link
Theories
The whole Bible, Nostrodamus and Emergency Phone trip is hysterical.
Let's try to look at this rationally.
A group of people take flying lessons that include steering, no take-offs, no landings. As such, they have no ability to fly by intruments alone so they have to fly on a clear day; literally so they can look out the window. 09.11 a VERY clear day, 09.10 a little over cast.
Mystery Solved
Pathetic Whimpers
This is just sad geekdom:
"I want to live the way Rodenberry wrote about Star Trek... where people try to make things better."
Carl Sagan said...
One time during a Dungeons and Dragons campaign...
We must strive for peace or we are doomed to Ender's Game.
Kirk was right when he said....
A passage in the Hobbit...
In The Matrix...
Holy shit folks those are make believe. In fact, without the "scary" over commercialized, over hyped, mass marketed United States _most_ of those things wouldn't exist. There is no utopia. Every place has evil/bad in it. Some more than others. If you think there is a better place to live on this planet or any other you are free to leave the US.
Now I don't mean that antagonistically, I mean it literally. You can leave the US anytime you like (unless you are in jail or serving the military, etc.) This is a GREAT thing about the US. You can come and go as you wish. If you think Canada or France will do you better go. I mean why not? If you think that life on Quark 5621 is going to afford you a "harmonious" life, hop on the next flight to fantasyland and go.
Sure we'll miss your 33% but we'll get by. Oddly despite the fact that the US is a horrible, war mongering place humans continue to flock on our shores, leagally and otherwise. As of yet, no mass exodus...
Humans kill eachother all the time. Sometimes they do it for fun. You think we're better than animals because we can move our thumb? Because we made up some religions? Because we communicate in a way _we_ understand? Get real.
Humans have been offing one another forever. Zug thinks you poached on his land you and your whole fucking tribe are dead. Christians think you're defiling their Holy Land, they raise a fucking army to kill you off. World Economy going to shit, people using Deutsch Marks to write on instead of paper, got a glut of 20-somethings? Germany waltzes through Belgium and takes over France. "Hey what the fuck," America says and jumps in while everything is all hot and bothered. Think there's a coincidence that 21 years passed between WWI and WWII? The world just need to grow more army men to finish off the war.
Humans love to hate. Deal with it.
Traitors
You live in the United States. Your are actually bound to defend this country. Literally, legally. It is part of the deal when you live here.
People that complain that we had this coming, we deserve this, this is a good thing are pretty much, fucking traitors. I know you hate Republicans and all that, but if you honestly believe that Pedro Ruiz who was working at Windows On The World for 4.25USD an hour deserved to die becuase the US backs some country, you're a traitor. You should be tried and convicted as such. You are evil, callous and certainly anti-American.
Now I realize a lot of you are youngish and in College or lower and believe the stuff your teachers are telling you. 93% of Accredited College/University Professors who chose to answer the recent USA Today poll said they were registered Democrats and 78% of them described themselves as Liberals. I don't have a personal Limbaugh/Hannity/Gingrich type agenda against any of these folks I just know that once I got out of College and started getting heavily taxed I began to think that maybe the Republicans were right and the Democrats wanted to tax me too much because they liked big government. Of course even later I know they are all scumbags.
But I digress...
You, who would claim you are a Black person before you are American, and as such find the flying of The American Flag offensive (Newsday 09.11.02) I find you offensive. I find you traitorous. I think you should leave and go someplace where they _really_ treat blacks inhumanely.
You who pledge allegiance to your Italian Flag over your American Flag, despite the fact that you have never been to Italy, you too are a Traitor!
It is a privilege, an honor, A GIFT to live in the United States of America. You who wish evil upon the US as you live here. You who wish for the come-uppance of the US, you who hate your own country are Traitors.
Do not quote Civil Disobedience, do not believe that Thoreau was calling for the destruction of the United States, even as HE was opposed The Mexican War. Do not recount the evils of the US WITHOUT recounting the overwhelming GOOD the US has done.
---
Those of you outside the US who hate us, do what thou wilt but be warned that action against the US often leads to the destruction of the those that would harm us. Yeah we'll eventually rebuild you and then you'll give us back massages and make our fucking TVs.
Thanks... Rant over.
This
Is there anything more ironic than a bloody Englishman lecturing someone else about imperialism? The people who brought you Kuwait, Kashmir, Israel and the IRA for that matter? The country that caused the American Revolution? Crikey!
Speaking as a conservative who gets his news from sources like Clearchannel, if you want UNBIASED media coverage *of* the U.S. you would do better to listen to BBC World Service.
There's some evidence that there may be inconsistencies in the collapse of the two world trade center towers.
This web site points out a cloud of smoke coming from a tower not hit by the plane in the CNN video. This is hinting of a deliberate demolition of the World Trade Center site.
This web site has information that the hijackers are actually alive.
More technical information here. And isn't it strange that weapons-grade Anthrax is mailed?
Any time someone brings up Isreal/American foreign policy issues. I think this: If the U.S. nuked Isreal tommorrow would they middle eat then love us? No. I don't think they would. So what do we do from here?
It's all Politics
Quoting Brian_Ellenberger
I'm ashamed at this site sometimes, especially looking back at many of the high scoring posts from 9/11 that basically said we got what we deserved
Did the people of Afghanistan get what they deserved? Did the HALF A MILION childred who have dies in Iraq get what they deserve?
I'm not saying that those people who died got what they deserved. I'm sorry for the dead, and more so for the families that have to cope without a loved one. Personaly I don't handle death well. Its all I can do not to cry when I hear interviews with the relatives of the victims, quite often I have to turn the TV off or leave the room.
I'm not sorry for a country that has only just realised that there is a world out there. Look at history. Time and time again the US has inflicted misery on people, has caused death and destruction that makes 9/11 look like a family outing.
There is a saying "war is gods way of teaching Americans geography". Be sorry for those that deserve pity, all people, not just those like you. We are all human. Be sorry for those people that died in the tower, and those people who's wedding was bombed by the US in Afghanistan. Be sorry for those dying of AIDS in africa.
Please think about what you do. I personaly think patriotism is mis-guided, if not evil. A country is not something to kill, maime, enslave, poison or imprison another human over. Thinks like human rights are. Just because you country does something DOES NOT make it the right thing to do. It is the right thing to do if it is the right thing to do.
Please, Please, Please, for the sake of humanity, decide for youself if an action is justified. Don't accept other peoples opinions as facts. Learn the truth and decide for youself.
Democracy isn't about no one telling you what to do. It's about everyone telling you what to do.
I'm not sure I would look to the nytimes as a credible post 9/11 news source.
Let me prove you 100% right:
If I am ever unlucky enough to meet you I promise on my soul I will kick your fucking ass.
If you want to talk to me, there's contact information right there.
Why bother.
I'd give it more credence if it was something more then a parrot of a report that was in itself a parrot of "news" reports.
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
In our hearts forever. My 4c.
"The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
You asked for evidence, was given it, then you refused to believe it. Why even ask if you will not change? At least be honest with yourself.
Since the 9/11 disaster many people have voiced concerns about the diminished regard for civil rights as a consequence of the heightened demand for security. I believe many of those concerns to be unwarranted and unrealistic, and I do not subscribe to the theory that (selective, contained) violations of privacy must inevitably lead onto a slippery slope towards totalitarianism.
HOWEVER of late, a number of influential jurists, such as Alan Dershowitz (defense attorney for e.g. OJ Simpson and Mike Tyson) and Richard Posner (senior judge for the court of appeals), have been arguing in favor of the use of torture as a valid (if not legal) means of interrogation. Alan Dershowitz in particular likes to fantasize about inserting needles under the fingernails of subjects, in his latest book.
The US government has detained hundreds of people without any form of due process. This is one thing, and quite imaginably a necessary thing given the circumstances, even if it tramples numerous civil rights. HOWEVER to then proceed and contemplate inflicting pain on these people in order to obtain a forced confession is quite another.
Legalized torture? Just Say No.
"We're talking about people who think it's OK to kill thousands of civillians and actively seek to do so"
If this is indeed your view than you have just sentenced the US govt to "capitol punishment". If you research history a little you'll find that the US consistently carries out mass murders in the name of "national security". I recommend searching "operation northwood" in google, for this is one of the worst acts our Gov't has considered for it was based on attacking our own popualtion and blaming it a Cube as a propaganda campaign.
Happy researching...
All I can say is that it's a good thing Bush has changed his tactics from a `War on Drugs' to a `War on Terrorism', otherwise he'd have to detain his daughter at Camp X-ray.
This will overtake the This is IT story.
w00t
l4st p0st!
God sets before every man two options: good and evil. Man is free to choose at his whim.
On September 11, the terrorists chose evil and acted hatefully against other people. However, God preserved the lives of most of the near-victims. (Remember, 50,000 people daily worked in the WTC alone.)
When people are close to death, their values become aligned with God's. That is the whole point of this, I believe. When victims in the towers knew they were going to die, they didn't care about downloading the next Mozilla build. Major political controversies were not given a thought. The project that was due at 11:00 AM didn't matter anymore.
Their minds were transformed. All of a sudden, they valued the precious moments of life as never before. They recognized the truth that people are dependent on God for every breath. Their faith, perhaps long withered away, was revived and strengthened to trust in the Creator as Savior and Lord. They desperately wanted their family to know "I LOVE YOU."
These are the things that matter to God. And if the truth be known, to people too. Not technology, not politics, not entertainment, not science. It's all about getting back to the basics.
- Love God with all of your heart, soul, mind.
- Love other people as you love yourself.
These are "the greatest commandments" according to Jesus. These are also the lessons of September 11, 2001. When you live as God teaches us to live, you regard life as sacred and you care for your family above all other obligations.God did allow many people to die, but that is His right. He was not obligated to give anyone life in the first place.
When you were born, did you sign a contract with God that He would give you 80 years of life?
How is it that you think God owes you something?
Are your good deeds so meritorious that God is beholden to your righteousness?
How do you reason that a sinner does not deserve death?
Who are you to judge God?
Here's where that first line comes from.
Even if every other person on slashdot refuses to give up anything to fight the war on terrorism, I will give up all privacy to the government. They can tap my phone, read my e-mail, even search my apartment. I don't care. I don't want to be remembered as someone who impeded the FBI in doing their job. I don't want to be a stumbling block in the discovery of future terrorist attacks against the US. I want to be a part of the solution, not the problem. I feel this sacrifice is minor compared to those made by others on and after 9/11/01, including firefighters, police officers, soldiers, and other brave citizens who have worked so hard to protect us from those who would destroy us all, given the opportunity.
Vote for Pedro
It's too bad that September 11 seems to be almost directly linked to war these days.
I think this day should be set aside to reflect on the poor people who were killed and whose families now suffer the loss of their loved ones. We have 364 other days in the year to plot our revenge or whatever you want to call it.
Listen to Bush... he can't talk more than 10 seconds about September 11 before he starts talking about the war and how we're going to kick their asses in. Now there's a role model for everyone!
And now we have to _prevent_ terrorism, not simply react to it. That sounds rational. So why is it that law enforcement has always REacted to problems and not been proactive in preventing them? eg. you call the police to report a domestic disturbance. Unless someone has been beaten or killed, they'll ask you to call back later. Hmm.
What makes the Taliban and maybe other countries hate the US so much? We should be asking ourselves that. Peace requires compromise. We may be able to sway people's opinions, but starting a war is not helping our int'l image.
Another thing: Maybe 9-11 was what america had coming to it, but it wasn't what all the poor people had coming to them. And maybe the taliban had what was coming to them, but not all the innocents that were killed by american bombs. What I don't get is why are the errors of leaders and fanatics paid in innocent blood. Great habit of humans, eh?
How can you place so much non-sense in one post?
Sorry, I don't agree with your assumptions, your
facts, and your "reasoning". What you have
posted is the official party line of CNN and
the White House. Sorry, I don't buy it. Your
non-sense are not suitable for posting, please
tell them to those under 12-years old, and
to the impressionable
Yes that's right! Some of the biggest state-sponsors of terrorism!
...uses throw-away accounts to avoid spam.
Why bother.
...but I started reading Slashdot regualrly on that day, because all the news websites were "/.ed" and this was the only webiste I knew that was still working...
I'm fat, you're ugly. I can get slimmer, and you?
To make the WTC towers disappear, with CIVIL planes. To override the security, to 'attack' the most fearsome country, without military means. To do something more ingenious than the Trojan horse. This is a piece of strategic art. Pure art. To do the impossible, maybe a sad but an astonishing achievement.
Kuwait and Iraq had a conflict, there was petroleum, and so the USA came and laid waste to Iraq. Thousands civil suffered or even died. And the dessert storm troopers where heroes, and USA got its petroleum.
The dictator of Panama, an insignificant central American country, declared war on the USA, so the 'stealths' came to a country without radars, and the lasers, and they left the deaths in common pits, just like Germany did to Jewess. And the blinded laser testers where heroes.
SOMEONE made possible the 9/11 disaster, and the USA pointed it was some 'Osama' (former CIA agent, what do you know) and laid waste to Afghanistan. They 'liberated them of their religions' (just like china did to Tibet) and where saviours, and again, got its petroleum-duct.
The USA money bought Chile a dictatorship (Condor Plan), and hundreds civilian died, all in prevention of 'communism agents' and the killers where saviours.
In an almost won war, 2 Nippon cities where nuked to ashes, civil lives sent to hell in a blink, and the creators of the bomb, where heroes.
I don't know who planned and made possible the 9/11 'attack' but I would easily believe it were the Chinese than the Afghanis, the truth is, that it is a piece of art.
A civil attack, not worse than the ones USA has committed, but far difficult, so unimaginable that to this day, we found hard to believe it happened.
I am not saying it was ok, or that it is good that civil died. I just say, that it was Art.
Yeah, shouldn't he be dead at 55 by now?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
"The first thought that popped into my head was not about the horror of the event or even those who dies but rather a disturbed feeling that this is the start of a long erosion of everyone's rights." 3000 people died and the first thought that pops into your head is, great, now they're going to tap my phone? What's wrong with you and you too moderator fro giving this guy a 4). BTW, I doubt any legislation passed has directly affected you at all.
Vote for Pedro
Not at all. You are confusing causality with justification. I have said nothing about "deserving" anything.
You have asked where I am from - I am from a country that lost more than 10,000 of its people to terrorism. You do not need to tell me of funerals, crushed buildings, dismembered youths. I have seen them all.
So you have met terrorism for the first time. Well, congratulations. Some of us lived all our lives immersed in it. And guess who was financing the terrorists all along - US, UK, etc. But of course, they were "freedom fighters" then, not "terrorists".
I invite you to think on the possibility that if these people hate the US, they just might have a reason. And terrorism just might be the only way they can fight back. It is no secret that the US funded and trained Bin Ladin and his cavemen. So now the dog you trained and lashed on others turned to bite your own hand? The lesson is that such interventions as promoting religious fanaticism in a country to ward off their communist occupiers will have profound effects that might be undesirable for your country in the long term. Your country created Al-Qaeda. Now live with it.
who cares.
I've seen a lot of comments posted here and elsewhere about the USA "Reaping what they sow" and other comments along the same lines.
:-
I would've been tempted to agree with them, but for one thing
The sheer horror of the WTC attacks !
Yes, the rest of the world has been experiencing terrorist attacks for many many decades, but nothing on the scale of 9/11
People are also saying things like "If it had been in this or this country, it would never have been such a big deal"
So what is your point ? - Of course it wouldn't - this was an attack on the worlds most rich and powerful country. There's few other places where the impact would've had such enormous repercussions worldwide - also add into the mix the fact that the USA produces the majority of the worlds media (or at least, the most widespread media programs)
I watched a documentary last night that really bought the scale of the disaster home - the two french film makers who were originally filming a documentary on a rookie fireman and in-advertantly ended up filming the 9/11 disaster, including footage of the inside of the Towers.
Anyone who can watch that and still say "America bought it upon themselves" is sadly mistaken and very heartless - no country deserves that kind of horror, not even Iraq.
Why ? - Because it's the innocents that suffer.
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Wow, get you paid for it?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... but alas, you have never been in a dictatorship. Welcome to the club.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Did you need to prop up people like Suharto, Mobuto, Noriega, Pinochet, the Sha of Iran and many others while pursuing your global interests?
No, you could have promoted democracy and accountability and still have friendly regimes.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I wish some people would consider replacing Ted with Abdul and read this moving remembrance again. Perhaps that would bring home in some trigger happy people the monstrousity of killing blindly.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
.... those to happen to disagree are foreigners, in which case they can be killed or put under the supervision of a suitable dictator...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Seems like you don't understand the meaning of the words "Freedom of Association". You are still allowed to associate with whoever you want. There's nothing wrong with the government monitoring you while you're doing so - your freedom is not threatened.
However, it certainly does provide an incentive *not* to exercise your constitutional rights.
Do you like German cars?
Well, I would reply that for several centuries those people have been streaming into this region of North America so they CAN have the opportunity to Live without Fear.
/.er's have been complaining about the loss of Freedoms due to the US Patriot Act...but what few fail to recognize is that this law is already being sucessfully challenged by the Federal Judiciary!
Al-Queda is trying to change that.
A lot of
I want our Constitutional Rights protected...but when geeks start whinning that the Patriot Act is the single worst result of 9/11, I don't have much patience.
On the other hand, being forced to move from your childhood home because some cave-dwelling nut-job on the other side of the globe is trying to kill you? I think Homer J said it best:
Did we lose a war? That's not America. Noooooo. That's not even Mexico.
all this TV coverage is designed to do two things,
one: keep us distracted from the destruction of our constitution by the "Civil Rights Terrorists" currently in office in Washington. two: keep the fear alive that it might happen again so that we will be afraid enough to let them take our rights away in order to feel safe.
"Those who sacrifice personal liberties for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin(echoed later in a speech by Thomas Jefferson.)
Two people who had recently fought for freedom and risked their lives against a much superior force. I'll go with their judgement on this one. they knew how important it was to be free, we have forgotten. we would rather be safe.
but their is a price for freedom, a price we seem no longer willing to pay. the world knows that now. they know that if they want to destroy what we stand for, they just have to make us afraid.
sure we lashed out in anger against those responsible and those around them when we were injured. people who are afraid do that. but unless we stand fast to our beliefs, and do not sacrifice them or change them just to feel safe, then the terrorists accomplished what they really set out to do. they made us afraid to be free.
If you don't have the link, then you are trolling.
No. I could be wrong. Or I could be right. (It looks like "wrong," according to Snopes.) But merely lacking a link doesn't make me a troll, simply less-than-informative.
-Waldo Jaquith
Let me put it like this, you may be willing to throw away your constitutional rights for some vague sense of security, but I am not. The US Patriot Act is the single worst result of 9/11. Lets go over some of the rights this act stripped from me:
Freedom of association: The government may monitor religious and political groups without evidence of criminal activity.
Right to liberty: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Freedom from unreasonable searches: The government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to aid terrorism investigation.
Freedom of speech: The government may prosecute librarians, telecommunication company officials and anyone else who reveals they have received a subpoena for records related to the terrorism investigation.
Right to legal representation: The government may monitor penal communications between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
Right to a speedy and public trial: The government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
Freedom of information: The government has closed once-public immigration hearings, secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist requests for public records under the Freedom of Information Act.
How can any of this be viewed as a "Good Thing"
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development
Did I say I refused to believe it? No I did not. all I said was I would give it more credence if was not simply a parrot. I expect better from the BBC. I'm sure I can find all kinds of "evidence" that says the earth is flat, why do you not believe it?
between the greater and lesser infinities sleep the dreams undreamt
I am aware of the results of the US Patriot Act, as they have been posted both on /. and elsewhere. In fact, the current issue of 2600 has a very informative article that outlines the more specific impact of the Act on geeks. So, let me make it clear that I am NOT in favor of it remaining on the books.
If you want more anti-Patriot Act fodder, you may be interested in this article. It offers real-worldexamples of the impact of the Patriot Act, rather than an enumeration of its theoretical impact, as you provided.
However, if you bothered to read my previous post, you might have caught one of my points:
Virtually all laws included in the Patriot Act are in the process of being overturned by the Federal Judiciary. Our country still has a system of checks and balances, and the Justices are working to reverse the power-grabbing initiated by Ashcroft & Co.
I should add that while I abhor the Patriot Act, I don't have patience for people who are upset because it might be more difficult (or more illegal) to get away with
- hacking and defacing web sites
- hoarding child porn
- evading federal taxes via offshore banking
- file sharing MP3s
- trading/selling warez
If you are upset because you are a Muslim American, or you checked out a book on bomb-making - and as a result the FBI wanted to "interview you" - I am share your outrage.
However, if you are upset because now the authorities have a better chance of catching you breaking the law - I suddenly find myself considerably less interested in your plight.
These are all details however. My main point is this:
When I watched those towers fall live on television, I saw 3,000 people die. What I did not see was"My Liberties Vanish," as some others have posted (aside from, perhaps, Freedom from Fear).
No, the horrific loss of life and human tragedy in its aftermath is the real story of 9/11. We should be most concerned with making sure that - within the limits of our sacred Constitution - it doesn't happen again.
I hoped that we had evolved beyond dolts such as yourself.
So much for the human race....
Fist of all, I'm glad that you are all right, 3 or 5 guys from my city died that day :-(, I ran to the WC to cry when I heard that one of the towers collapsed, and yes, I believe that the bastards that planned it deserve to die.
That said, I whas talking about the stuff that THE AMERICAN GOVERMENT AND CORPORATIONS do outside the country. Since America still has a semblance of being a Republic with democratic ellections, the americans, has citizens and shareolders have the duty and the power to force their goverment and corporations to behave in an ethical (Sp?)way, regardless of the country in which they are operating, instead of the double standard that they comonly use.
If you want a list of american backed/imposet dictators, here it comes:
Victoriano Huerta, Mexico, 1913-1916. The revolution that ended Porfirio Diaz's dictatorship brougth to power the democratically ellected Francisco I. Madero. The blodly coup d'etat agains Madero whas planned in the american Emmbassy, and Huerta's goverment was inmediately (duh!!) recognized and backed by the american goverment.
Guatemala, 1956, another coup d'etat against a democratically ellected presidet. his sin? being leftist. Planned by the CIA, in the middle of the Cold War.
September 11, 1993, Augusto Pinochet seizes power in Chile, backed by gess who? the american goverment, killing the president Allende, and in 1974, doing the first terrorist attack in Washintong DC, killing 2 prominent enemies of his blodly regime.
More close in time, the USA was almost the only country in the world that recognized the new goverment in Venezuela afther the coup d'etat against the democratically ellected president Hugo Chavez; twisted completelly the ellections in Nicaragua, after the not so veiled menace of drestroying the contry's economy if they voted for Daniel Ortega, who whas a leftist president of Nicaragua in the 80's.
in the end, it's one thing to fight against the enemy we have at home, an other if we have to fight the American almost unbeatable power too.
(sorry about the bad grammar, spelling =)
Mexico: 100% conservative's America now!
I actually think that they would love the US, provided the radiation didn't sweep into their countries. Here's a couple of ideas (not at all my own)
1) Find alternative energy sources so we don't need to wage war over oil and also so that we can limit our middle east exposure. Or better yet, and admittedly this is a touch idealistic, teach the American people that they do not NEED to have SUV's!
2) Take steps to reduce world poverty. There are many other countries responsible for world poverty but nevertheless many actions of the US are not in the favour of third world countries. Rather than making the emphasis of foreign policy on financial gains for america, opening up new markets, new resources, that sort of thing, economic development should be the mandate. If rulers are going to be assasinated, governments taken down, then it should happen for gross mismanagement of government funds, ie corruption. Also, for a small fraction of the defense budget (currently over $300 billion) you could take financial measures to help rebuild some of the poorer economies.
3) The States should step down there arm sales to foreign countries.
4) In general, try to see other's perspective and do not always take actions that are beneficial solely to the United States. Ie. The government's refusal of the kyoto agreement, land-mine agreements, breaking of the anti-ballistic missile treaty, issuing threats such as "You are either with us or against us".
Maybe I was the only one who noticed this. Maybe I did not read through 1800+ comments on this already but had anybody watched TV at all Wednesday? Was I the only one that felt that it was shown for a reason other than to "remember?" As I sat there inside Dell, at the cafeteria, they are showing the footage of the WTC and the hysteria on the TV. Now I am not for any movement for or against what happened but I found myself being choked up watching it and then it came to me..... They want us to feel that way. Think about it, one year and we are still "at war." The movement and backing dies away after time, espically since we did not get Osma.....so what do we do? We show the footage all day long so we get back in that good ole american spirit and support George W's views of bombing and invading other nations...
For starters, you might use that money to pay for the computer you're using, and the bandwidth you are depriving others of. Not to mention the cloths you're wearing, the food you've eaten today, the education you have and all other worldly possesions
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Muslim doesn't represent terrorism to 2/3 of the world, only the US and the Jewish states (oh that includes the US i think).
Now see your ranting, the reason I chose fight club was because it illustrates that even Americans can see the oppression.
BTW what would I want with a loan?
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Yes Different, but not for reason you state.
The fire bombing of Dresden was carried out by RAF Bomber Command, not by the American Air Force and was in retaliation for the Luftwaffe bombing (flattening) of Coventry. Which was carried out in response to previous Bombing by the allies; all the way back until the now known to be accidental (by navigation rrror) bombing (actually dumping) of London in Aug 1940.
And there lies the difference. These terrorists had no reason to escalate, US Forces conducted no similar actions on Saudi or Afghanistan. Indeed the US aided both these states in the recent past against outside aggression.
Could it be because just as the US goes to war with Germany, Japan convieniently declares war on the US?
Except this is factually incorrect.
Japan attacked the US *then* Hitler declared war on the US, not visa-versa; believing Japan had delivered a knockout sucker punch. The US never declared war on either.
ANyone here know the Billy Joel song "Miami 2017: Seen the Lights Go Out On Broadway"? For the two weeks following the attack I walked around the city (mostly around 5th ave and 59th - I was working in the GM building) singing that song. It was...cathartic. Sums up my opinion on the whole thing quite nicely. The lyrics are reprinted below without any permission whatsoever.
Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)
I've seen the lights go out on Broadway
I saw the Empire State laid low.
And life went on beyond the Palisades,
They all bought Cadillacs
And left there long ago.
We held a concert out in Brooklyn
To watch the Island bridges blow.
They turned our power down,
And drove us underground
But we went right on with the show
I've seen the lights go out on Broadway
I saw the ruins at my feet,
You know we almost didn't notice it
We'd see it all the time on Forty-Second Street.
They burned the churches up in Harlem
Like in that Spanish Civil War
The flames were everywhere,
But no one really cared
It always burned up there before
I saw the lights go out on Broadway
I watched the mighty skyline fall.
The boats were waiting at the Battery,
The union went on strike
They never sailed at all.
They sent a carrier out from Norfolk
And picked the Yankees up for free.
They said that Queens could stay,
They blew the Bronx away
And sank Manhattan out to sea
You know those lights were bright on Broadway
But that was so many years ago
Before we all lived here in Florida
Before the Mafia took over Mexico.
There are not many who remember
They say a handful still survive
To tell the world about the way the lights went out,
And keep the memory alive
Triv
star
Ok so how many people in china? + say 1/2 of india
,It confuses the hell out of people when I refuse an overdraft or credit, or want to pay bills in advance I don't want the temptation of credit and I refuse it when it's offered.
+Most of the developing countries WIPO
almost 2/3 of the world....
They are directly oppressed by drugs patents, and more over by cultural oppression(re musslims)
I believe that Kenya, Tanzania Turky, Eygipt etc... were all countries that adopted islam (mainly because a muslim cannot hold a muslim as a slave but that kind of oppression is about parrel with Jewish and Christian countries)
9/10 individuals who get credit are oppressed the second anyone thinks your in finincial difficulty they send you tonnes of advertising through the post tempting you to make your difficulties worse.
I would never get a loan for morral reasons
star crusher
star killers
>Just like the whole "War on Terrorism" is
>pointless, so is a war on capitalism.
Worse, using "war" in such ways (e.g. on Poverty, on Drugs, on Crime, on malaria) blurs the meaning of a word that we should treat with utmost seriousness. Smearing the semantic field confuses our thinking (weak Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis). War justifies extraordinary measures, we are at war against (insert bogeyman here), therefore we can violate (insert lost right here) and otherwise operate without accountability.
In one of Arthur C. Clark's Rama books, the leaders of one race were required by law to commit suicide at the end of a war that they had declared. I like that idea.
First off, let me begin by saying that most everyone here doesn't give a fucking shit about what you did on 9/11. Nor does anyone else for that matter. Who gives a fuck? And you come here, now, to pull rank.
Who cares if your mother's brother's sister's cousin forth friend in law is Stationed in Saudi Arabia. Who fucking cares. Buildings fell in NYC, that doesn't have anything to do with Saudi Arabia. You, on IRC, it figures. You wouldn't happen to be doing ANYTHING to improved things around her or try and refactor that pile of shit you call Slashcode.
Oh, and a cute little plug for Howard Stern. Are you trying to show the world how cool you are and that you listen to the worlds most infamous shock jock. Let me clue you, Commander Pussy, he jumped the shark when he got divorced.
Why did you feel like a Zombie? Kathleen not fucking you good and right and putting you to bed? Oh, yeah, you had to struggle to keep those ads spraying in our faces, you bitch fuck. You stole boxes? You stole? From where? And what? Did you take you faggot PC from the gay Jubei piece of shit you are making?
Proud? How are you proud? And of what? You are such an idiot. You did NOTHING. Nothing was different, better. You and your cabal of shit editors still sucked as hard as usual that day, and your fucking website, which happens to foster lots of socialist and communist assholes, basically bashed the United States to pieces and your shit moderation system allows the angry mob to moderate away any undesired thinking. You want to feel honored? Try on a purple heart, like the one I got, Injured in the line of Duty. You make me sick, you little civvie asshole who thinks he is hot shit with his website allowing socialists and shit-heads like John fucking Katz to drag veterans like me and what we stand for though the fucking mud!
If your behavior changed at all these last few days, I wouldn't have fucking noticed on iota. You are a absentee leader, you hide like Hussein hides. You rarely speak, and when you do you sound like an Imperial Dictator, with a huge problem, you sound like a simpleton as well. A zealous simpleton.
Your site is rife with assholes, shit moderation, absentee "leaders," not critical editing, Rumors posted as stories, good storied rejected, and fucking trolls for editors. You people need a dirt nap and a day out of the lime light. No one wants to BE you, we want to rip your fucking ass off the throne and start making this place a good place to stop every day - something you fail at. Now its more fun to troll than to be insightful because of the moronic mob YOU have fucking crafted.
YOU are anti American, and as one pissed off vet, I feel good that I was injured for my country, and I know good people live here, but pigs like you make it hard sometimes to look at my wounds. It pains me to know how little you understand and how important you think you are.
DICK.