Yes, this is a major reason for offshoring. The Tech industry as it relates to computers is mature to the point that you describe. Hardware features are becoming more and more standardized, software tools are maturing also, the market is not a frontier anymore as much as it is a defined pie with folks fighting over their wedge size. When that happens it becomes a pricing war. Enter cost reduction stratagies and the offshoring motivation.
Nothing will stop the outflow at this point. It will continue until equilibrium has been reached, and Americans will have to adjust - just like we adjusted/are adjusting to the.com bust.
You, you and your developer buddy(s)? Your whole virtual development community? Who gets to decide who had critical input and who didn't? Who pays for the review/legal fees? Who researches prior art before preparation/submittal? Who is responsible for lawsuits if you wanna go after someone? Who funds that?
DON'T BRAG ABOUT YOUR SERVICE THAT ISN'T BEING WATCHED BY THE RIAA AND CO. UNLESS YOU WANT THEM TO WATCH IT. DO YOU THINK THEY DON'T READ THESE GEEK SITES???
SECRETS ARE SECRETS ONLY IF NO ONE TELLS THEM.
Slashdot poster: hahah my XYZ client is RIAA free - nanny nanny naa naa"
RIAA snoop: "Google this XYZ thing and lets get rolling on this one too"
unfortunately money and power make men drunk with greed and envy. Only in a utopian world would what you say come to pass. In our world someone will always get greedy and spoil it for the rest of us. Successful outsourcing will eventually make those foreign companies greedy and drive their wages up, which will drive those jobs back to the US once the monetary gap closes to the point where its not worth the international travel, timezone problems, or language barriers.
Can you imagine the infrastructure cost for that??
on
Global Dimming
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
initial planning, design, materials and implementation, maintenance and repair...good idea but I doubt it would come close to paying for itself.
I can speak for the company I work for. We use Word for processing electronic change notices for engineering, and the macros tie in closely with Outlook (email addresses). We couldn't easily swap out Word for OO without re-desigining that process, and believe me it was a pain politically and technically to get it to the point that it is today.
Day to Day word processor and spreadsheet use would be a totally different story.
Although I understand and agree with your basic point, I would ask that you consider the "product" of a computer and how that relates to average "consumers" need for a tool to make their lives easier/more entertained (because that is, after all, the basic reason why average consumers purchase computers).
Consumers want a tool to use, whether it be for games, email, finances, or just internet surfing. Quite frankly they don't want to spend a ton of time learning about how to use it, and many don't care how or why it works just as long as it does work.
The tug-of-war that exists is that computers by their nature are complex and flexible. Consumers by their nature are very insistant on their desires which in include simplicity, flexability, safety, cost, and utility.
Calling them "stubborn idiots" only highlights the divide of understanding between the computer literate that understand and desire ultimate flexibility, and the average consumer that just wants to use their computer, like a toaster or a vcr or a Sony playstation, without a lot of hastle.
Somehow the creators (programmers and hardware vendors) need to accomodate for that, because I assure you that the average consumer won't change.
Although I despise Microsoft's business ethics, I appreciate their dedication to the principle that I mentioned above.
Linux is in a very good position to make headways in this regard as well, but it will take a fundamental understanding by the programmers and harware teams of said principle to make real headways in the desktop market.
Anything less will ultimately limit the adoption of Linux to, for example, server, web, and corporate applications.
"The masses" are what they are, and deriding them for it won't influence them to change, however it will influence them to avoid the product.
Lets find a way to meet them where they are while preserving the fundamentals.
I don't think folks should be coerced/required to upgrade just because there is something newer out... if it works and you can do what you need to do with it, leave it alone and save your $200.
The fact that the software is a "danger" to the digital community with regard to virii/backdoors is not the owner's fault - its the creator's, and that creator should be held accountable for their mess.
once again, they clearly demonstrate their non-grasp of the file sharing concept, and for this target market's desires and needs.
*Bzzzt* Sorry, try again please.
How about a closed P2P network that you pay a monthly fee to access via secure clients, and that network would have actual files that you could download? Nah... too simple. *rolls eyes*
To make the marketing push to get users converted to Linux desktops. Take advantage of folks' being "forced" to upgrade their OS.
Lindows/Mandrake/Suse/Etc should be coming up with a special upgrade/conversion offer for Win98 users.
Use Microsoft's announcements against them, use the gap between XP and Longhorn, use their security vulnerabilities, use their pricing... use it all against them. Relentless pursuit. Relentless flock of hungry penguins.
You also have to make it painless to do things like install/remove software and install/remove drivers.
I have been patiently trying to build up and use my Suse 8.2 system.
My biggest complaints so far?
- I don't want to have to do black magic command line crap to install my NVIDIA drivers - Although I definitely agree with the root/user separation, its a pain in the a$$ to keep getting assaulted with a root password prompt when I want to change a system setting (flame away) - many of the programs don't seem polished; that is, they seem to crash at odd times or don't do what they said they would when I hit 'ok'. (??) - the interface needs to be more polished for the average user who doesn't want to understand the technical aspects of what a link is or what HDA1 is...
I LOVE that Linux exists, and I am growing to love it more....BUT...I am not an "average" user. I am somewhere in the haze between advanced Windows weenie and low level Linux novice.
I don't care how many LiveCDs you ship to my father-in-law or my wife (as examples). If they can't install drivers and programs, configure their systems, and navigate their PCs _easily_ and through the GUI _only_ you won't have an ice-cube's chance in He11 of getting them to use Linux. Oh - and if they can't buy software (games) for it at Best Buy you're screwed too.
Average users want a tool that looks pretty, does neat things, and makes their lives easier/more entertained. They don't give a rat's behind about shell scripts, Xfree, Xserve, CUPS, gcc or whatever. It just confuses them and turns them OFF to the product.
Hope you find these comments contructive - they are not meant to assault.
point taken, and its very valid under the circumstances you describe, but I disagree that increasing your risk of identity theft is worth the reduction in hastle. Quote from the product page:
"Planetwide scans your mail, emails the scans to you and stores the originals. These then get forwarded to you when you notify Planetwide of an address to send them to. Easy as!"
I immediately cringe when I consider that a stranger opens my mail, scans it (without reading it?), stores it (when they send it after I request it how do I know I got it all? how do they know it was me that requested it? and for the electronic versions - for how long is is stored, where, is it encrypted? can I have it deleted? how do I know it was deleted?), emails it to the address I specify (oh boy...this is wide open to hacking).
would you really truly feel comfortable having a stranger handle, scan, and email into cyberspace your 401k, bank, investement, and tax statements, your mortgage information, your paystubs, etc?
If so, then I say good luck. I personally would make a wide berth around that one.
explain again why this is a value add??
on
Snail Mail As E-Mail
·
· Score: 1, Interesting
jesus, pretty soon we'll have other people drive to work for us, for fear of being car jacked...
life = risks. There's no need to let paranoia eat away at your brain cells.
Here's a concept: Read your own dam mail, keep what's important and shred the rest. Gee, that was hard.
Thanks for making us aware of this alternate form of pirating. We really appreciate concerned citizens such at you who help protect our great democracy. Because we appreciate you so much, we would like to extend an offer to you for a free CD at the retailer of your choice. Just send us your name, address, copy of your driver's license, and your daytime phone number in order to receive your free CD coupon. Please allow 6-8 weeks for court^H^H^H^H^H delivery. Have a nice day!
Infrigement. Just because I happen to share a lot of MP3's doesn't mean that people actually download them...think about it.
Don't they have to Physically PROVE that they were downloaded and how many times each they were downloaded before they can prove infringment and assess damages????
Its all hearsay and conjecture unless they can prove that "beyond a reasonable doubt". Right?
All I am guilty of in the mean time is using a software that theoretically shares files.
Just because I own a gun doesn't mean I killed someone...
I just don't see how the RIAA can win these cases.
"Pointing to a particular software vendor and to a particular software (standard) gets you nowhere," Robertson said."
So the fact that 90% of the nasty virii/worms/disfuntionality are associated with a "particular sofware" is meaningless or should be ignored? Dear God that's just too pathetic a statement to address...
Robertson said Microsoft has been working to have Japan participate in its Government Security Program, which gives national governments and international organizations access to Microsoft's source code, the underlying blueprint of its programs.
And how do they get the code changed if they see something they don't like? Anyway the underlying issue is control of critical infrastructure. OS software is becoming just that - a critical infrastructure item. Governments SHOULD be concerned about it.
Crocodille Tears.
The problem is that these major computer vendors like HP and DELL are so in bed with Microsoft it will be hard for them to execute a truly fantastic Linux solution on the PC (not servers mind you...that's a different story) without pissing MS off.
Pissing MS off is a BAAAAAAD thing if you depend on them for cooperation in developing support (drivers, OS support for hardware, etc) for the next big windows release.
So... HP is trying to experiment without stepping too hard on MS' toes.
Damn I hate how much power MS has over these guys.
yeah my company uses this technique all the time - playing vendors against each other and insuating bigger carrots if they will just "take one for the team" this time. I have personally seen my company drive 2 vendors into the dirt with these little games they play.
More on topic - Its not just software that's being outsourced: its engineering in general, coupled with manufacturing. Its disgusting to watch thriving R&D units get shaved away into skeletons of PHB's, "engineering project managers", and a secretary or two.
One thing I am noticing is that games today are, getting way too complex with regards to graphics, geometry, lighting, etc. It takes a TON of time and money to design, build, texture, test, and finalize these worlds. "What's your point you ask?" - Its this: That the gameplay isn't THAT much different today than it was say 5 years ago (exept with AI development), and quite frankly I don't play the game for the eye candy (although that enhances my experience while playing).
Game enjoyment is all about challenge, goal accomplishment, and interaction with AI in the computer. These are paramount elements, and these costs can be normalized to fairly predictable levels. The eye candy is on the list but not that near the top for me, and yet game developers sink huge dollars into this.
I really don't "enjoy" Quake III or UnrealTournament2003 any more than Quake II or UnrealTournament1999 except where BOT AI is concerned. This is because the GAMEPLAY has improved because of AI development, not because a building is made of 3000 objects instead of 500.
Software that I have "pirated" is software I never would have purchased anyway. I pirated it to use it for my personal amusement or education. Adding product activation just means that I won't do that - so what does it gain the company that initiates the activation strategy? Nuttin honey.
Just look to Quicken for a recent example of this. Their sales actually went down because of all the problems that activation caused the end user.
I personally PURCHASED Taxcut because it specifically DIDN'T have activation. Also, I gave my CD to my father-in-law, who tried it - liked it - and bought his own copy.
I assert that the net gain for these companies will be Zero or Negative. People like to be trusted, and for the most part they can. The other cases can be chalked up to free advertisement.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, this is a major reason for offshoring. The Tech industry as it relates to computers is mature to the point that you describe. Hardware features are becoming more and more standardized, software tools are maturing also, the market is not a frontier anymore as much as it is a defined pie with folks fighting over their wedge size. When that happens it becomes a pricing war. Enter cost reduction stratagies and the offshoring motivation.
.com bust.
Nothing will stop the outflow at this point. It will continue until equilibrium has been reached, and Americans will have to adjust - just like we adjusted/are adjusting to the
You, you and your developer buddy(s)? Your whole virtual development community? Who gets to decide who had critical input and who didn't?
Who pays for the review/legal fees?
Who researches prior art before preparation/submittal?
Who is responsible for lawsuits if you wanna go after someone? Who funds that?
Tough questions....Anyone have answers?
DON'T BRAG ABOUT YOUR SERVICE THAT ISN'T BEING WATCHED BY THE RIAA AND CO. UNLESS YOU WANT THEM TO WATCH IT. DO YOU THINK THEY DON'T READ THESE GEEK SITES???
H HH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
SECRETS ARE SECRETS ONLY IF NO ONE TELLS THEM.
Slashdot poster: hahah my XYZ client is RIAA free - nanny nanny naa naa"
RIAA snoop: "Google this XYZ thing and lets get rolling on this one too"
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
BE VERY BERY QUIET.........
unfortunately money and power make men drunk with greed and envy. Only in a utopian world would what you say come to pass. In our world someone will always get greedy and spoil it for the rest of us. Successful outsourcing will eventually make those foreign companies greedy and drive their wages up, which will drive those jobs back to the US once the monetary gap closes to the point where its not worth the international travel, timezone problems, or language barriers.
initial planning, design, materials and implementation, maintenance and repair...good idea but I doubt it would come close to paying for itself.
I can speak for the company I work for. We use Word for processing electronic change notices for engineering, and the macros tie in closely with Outlook (email addresses). We couldn't easily swap out Word for OO without re-desigining that process, and believe me it was a pain politically and technically to get it to the point that it is today.
Day to Day word processor and spreadsheet use would be a totally different story.
I laugh at your pantywaisted silly little tantrums. I fart in your general direction. I blow my nose at you. I spit on your dirty silly bald heads!
bite me.
Although I understand and agree with your basic point, I would ask that you consider the "product" of a computer and how that relates to average "consumers" need for a tool to make their lives easier/more entertained (because that is, after all, the basic reason why average consumers purchase computers).
Consumers want a tool to use, whether it be for games, email, finances, or just internet surfing. Quite frankly they don't want to spend a ton of time learning about how to use it, and many don't care how or why it works just as long as it does work.
The tug-of-war that exists is that computers by their nature are complex and flexible. Consumers by their nature are very insistant on their desires which in include simplicity, flexability, safety, cost, and utility.
Calling them "stubborn idiots" only highlights the divide of understanding between the computer literate that understand and desire ultimate flexibility, and the average consumer that just wants to use their computer, like a toaster or a vcr or a Sony playstation, without a lot of hastle.
Somehow the creators (programmers and hardware vendors) need to accomodate for that, because I assure you that the average consumer won't change.
Although I despise Microsoft's business ethics, I appreciate their dedication to the principle that I mentioned above.
Linux is in a very good position to make headways in this regard as well, but it will take a fundamental understanding by the programmers and harware teams of said principle to make real headways in the desktop market.
Anything less will ultimately limit the adoption of Linux to, for example, server, web, and corporate applications.
"The masses" are what they are, and deriding them for it won't influence them to change, however it will influence them to avoid the product.
Lets find a way to meet them where they are while preserving the fundamentals.
I don't think folks should be coerced/required to upgrade just because there is something newer out... if it works and you can do what you need to do with it, leave it alone and save your $200.
The fact that the software is a "danger" to the digital community with regard to virii/backdoors is not the owner's fault - its the creator's, and that creator should be held accountable for their mess.
once again, they clearly demonstrate their non-grasp of the file sharing concept, and for this target market's desires and needs.
*Bzzzt* Sorry, try again please.
How about a closed P2P network that you pay a monthly fee to access via secure clients, and that network would have actual files that you could download? Nah... too simple. *rolls eyes*
Bite me. Lick me. Like it. Regards, Michael
To make the marketing push to get users converted to Linux desktops. Take advantage of folks' being "forced" to upgrade their OS.
Lindows/Mandrake/Suse/Etc should be coming up with a special upgrade/conversion offer for Win98 users.
Use Microsoft's announcements against them, use the gap between XP and Longhorn, use their security vulnerabilities, use their pricing... use it all against them. Relentless pursuit. Relentless flock of hungry penguins.
works great!! ;-)
You also have to make it painless to do things like install/remove software and install/remove drivers.
I have been patiently trying to build up and use my Suse 8.2 system.
My biggest complaints so far?
- I don't want to have to do black magic command line crap to install my NVIDIA drivers
- Although I definitely agree with the root/user separation, its a pain in the a$$ to keep getting assaulted with a root password prompt when I want to change a system setting (flame away)
- many of the programs don't seem polished; that is, they seem to crash at odd times or don't do what they said they would when I hit 'ok'. (??)
- the interface needs to be more polished for the average user who doesn't want to understand the technical aspects of what a link is or what HDA1 is...
I LOVE that Linux exists, and I am growing to love it more....BUT...I am not an "average" user. I am somewhere in the haze between advanced Windows weenie and low level Linux novice.
I don't care how many LiveCDs you ship to my father-in-law or my wife (as examples). If they can't install drivers and programs, configure their systems, and navigate their PCs _easily_ and through the GUI _only_ you won't have an ice-cube's chance in He11 of getting them to use Linux. Oh - and if they can't buy software (games) for it at Best Buy you're screwed too.
Average users want a tool that looks pretty, does neat things, and makes their lives easier/more entertained. They don't give a rat's behind about shell scripts, Xfree, Xserve, CUPS, gcc or whatever. It just confuses them and turns them OFF to the product.
Hope you find these comments contructive - they are not meant to assault.
point taken, and its very valid under the circumstances you describe, but I disagree that increasing your risk of identity theft is worth the reduction in hastle. Quote from the product page:
"Planetwide scans your mail, emails the scans to you and stores the originals. These then get forwarded to you when you notify Planetwide of an address to send them to. Easy as!"
I immediately cringe when I consider that a stranger opens my mail, scans it (without reading it?), stores it (when they send it after I request it how do I know I got it all? how do they know it was me that requested it? and for the electronic versions - for how long is is stored, where, is it encrypted? can I have it deleted? how do I know it was deleted?), emails it to the address I specify (oh boy...this is wide open to hacking).
would you really truly feel comfortable having a stranger handle, scan, and email into cyberspace your 401k, bank, investement, and tax statements, your mortgage information, your paystubs, etc?
If so, then I say good luck. I personally would make a wide berth around that one.
jesus, pretty soon we'll have other people drive to work for us, for fear of being car jacked...
life = risks. There's no need to let paranoia eat away at your brain cells.
Here's a concept: Read your own dam mail, keep what's important and shred the rest. Gee, that was hard.
Thanks for making us aware of this alternate form of pirating. We really appreciate concerned citizens such at you who help protect our great democracy. Because we appreciate you so much, we would like to extend an offer to you for a free CD at the retailer of your choice. Just send us your name, address, copy of your driver's license, and your daytime phone number in order to receive your free CD coupon. Please allow 6-8 weeks for court^H^H^H^H^H delivery. Have a nice day!
Love,
The RIAA
Infrigement. Just because I happen to share a lot of MP3's doesn't mean that people actually download them...think about it.
Don't they have to Physically PROVE that they were downloaded and how many times each they were downloaded before they can prove infringment and assess damages????
Its all hearsay and conjecture unless they can prove that "beyond a reasonable doubt". Right?
All I am guilty of in the mean time is using a software that theoretically shares files.
Just because I own a gun doesn't mean I killed someone...
I just don't see how the RIAA can win these cases.
then we are ok?
"Pointing to a particular software vendor and to a particular software (standard) gets you nowhere," Robertson said."
So the fact that 90% of the nasty virii/worms/disfuntionality are associated with a "particular sofware" is meaningless or should be ignored? Dear God that's just too pathetic a statement to address...
Robertson said Microsoft has been working to have Japan participate in its Government Security Program, which gives national governments and international organizations access to Microsoft's source code, the underlying blueprint of its programs.
And how do they get the code changed if they see something they don't like? Anyway the underlying issue is control of critical infrastructure. OS software is becoming just that - a critical infrastructure item. Governments SHOULD be concerned about it.
Crocodille Tears.
The problem is that these major computer vendors like HP and DELL are so in bed with Microsoft it will be hard for them to execute a truly fantastic Linux solution on the PC (not servers mind you...that's a different story) without pissing MS off.
Pissing MS off is a BAAAAAAD thing if you depend on them for cooperation in developing support (drivers, OS support for hardware, etc) for the next big windows release.
So... HP is trying to experiment without stepping too hard on MS' toes.
Damn I hate how much power MS has over these guys.
yeah my company uses this technique all the time - playing vendors against each other and insuating bigger carrots if they will just "take one for the team" this time. I have personally seen my company drive 2 vendors into the dirt with these little games they play.
More on topic -
Its not just software that's being outsourced: its engineering in general, coupled with manufacturing. Its disgusting to watch thriving R&D units get shaved away into skeletons of PHB's, "engineering project managers", and a secretary or two.
One thing I am noticing is that games today are, getting way too complex with regards to graphics, geometry, lighting, etc. It takes a TON of time and money to design, build, texture, test, and finalize these worlds. "What's your point you ask?" - Its this: That the gameplay isn't THAT much different today than it was say 5 years ago (exept with AI development), and quite frankly I don't play the game for the eye candy (although that enhances my experience while playing).
Game enjoyment is all about challenge, goal accomplishment, and interaction with AI in the computer. These are paramount elements, and these costs can be normalized to fairly predictable levels. The eye candy is on the list but not that near the top for me, and yet game developers sink huge dollars into this.
I really don't "enjoy" Quake III or UnrealTournament2003 any more than Quake II or UnrealTournament1999 except where BOT AI is concerned. This is because the GAMEPLAY has improved because of AI development, not because a building is made of 3000 objects instead of 500.
Does anyone else feel this way??
Software that I have "pirated" is software I never would have purchased anyway. I pirated it to use it for my personal amusement or education. Adding product activation just means that I won't do that - so what does it gain the company that initiates the activation strategy? Nuttin honey.
Just look to Quicken for a recent example of this. Their sales actually went down because of all the problems that activation caused the end user.
I personally PURCHASED Taxcut because it specifically DIDN'T have activation. Also, I gave my CD to my father-in-law, who tried it - liked it - and bought his own copy.
I assert that the net gain for these companies will be Zero or Negative. People like to be trusted, and for the most part they can. The other cases can be chalked up to free advertisement.
My heroine, my heroin.
Thank you - may I have another?!