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Microsoft Retires Windows 98
prostoalex writes "Complying with the court requirement related to Sun-Microsoft lawsuit over Java, Microsoft is retiring Windows 98, SQL Server 7, Office XP Developer Edition and some other products."
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Windows 98? But they are on XP now...
So I guess it's no big deal. How does this harm Microsoft? Win98 is (was) a nice and stable gaming platform, but XP is very stable for gaming too. This counts as a win on the record, but it's still too little too late, imho. Sun should be awarded more rights over *current* and *future* Microsoft products, as a penalty. This could get interesting!
...the witch is dead
Well, Microsoft is forcing everyone that wants tech support to pay another $500 to upgrade, and still get no source code....
Best news since 1998!!!
Is that the software can never die (theoretically). If some company retires a product (ie, Redhat) someone else can step in and continue to maintain it.
...it retires to a nice warm spot in Hell!
Maybe that was a little harsh.
I read that as "Microsoft Retries Windows 98" and I thought, "Didn't they learn the first time around?"
Fact: Windows 98 is dying
It is common knowledge that Windows 98 is dying. Everyone knows that ever hapless Windows 98 is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which Windows 98 is the worst off of an admittedly suffering Windows 98 community. The numbers continue to decline for Windows but Windows 98 may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The erosion of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
All major marketing surveys show that Windows 98 has steadily declined in market share. Windows 98 is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Windows 98 is to survive at all it will be among hobbyist dilettante dabblers. In truth, for all practical purposes Windows 98 is already dead. It is a dead man walking.
Fact: Windows 98 is dying
cpeterso
Anyone know?
IAALS.
Ironically, Win98se has been Microsoft's most secure operating system for the last two years!
Kuh-Bum-Boomp!
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
The only thing this means is that people that still have their Packard Bells and Dells and the such with Windows 98 OEM copies are not going to be able to do Windows Updates and are basically going to have to upgrade to another PC if they want support. Any guess as to what OS their next PC is going to run?
-=*(CC)*=-
The bottom of the article mentions that Sun attempts to distribute Java through court proceedings and OEM agreements.
That wasn't a very nice thing to say...maybe CNET has a beef with Sun? (the article is copyright CNET, not MSNBC)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
We've pretty much eliminated Netscape 4 and Internet Explorer 4 from the internet. Now, we just need to get rid of IE 5 and 5.5. IE 6 isn't perfect, but it's light years beyond IE 5.x.
...one day they'll be back. Trying to coax 98 out of retirement for 1 more mission. At first, 98 will be adament that he is retired. But then, they will tell him about an evil so great...
Blame Sun for forcing you to retire a product. They would have retired Win98 by now anyway. It's over five years old.
although i think it's for the better. get bad code out of public hands. a couple of reasons why i think it's a bad idea
1. force people to upgrade
1.1 forces people to spend money on something they may not need
1.2 forces people to use that windows activation thing
2. security. no more patches for win98. this means that the small group of people with win98 are always going to be vulnerable to internet viruses. Upgrade you say? what if you can't afford it?
i'm sure there are tons more reasons. in fact i'd like to heard more below but these are the two things that worry me because i have very little money and family/friends still using 98.
Maybe there are leasons to be learnt about persuing IP claims, you may win the legal battle but loose the war!
There are four sorts of people in the world: fools, lunatics, idiots and morons. - Umberto Eco, Foucaut's pendulum.
;) Proofreading is your friend.
Moderation totals that amuse me for one of my posts: Flamebait=1, Insightful=2, Funny=2, Overrated=1, Underrated=1
At first I only read the first two words in the title.
Oh well, too good to be true.
I walked him through the process and told him that Win 98 support was going out the window at year's end. This isn't the first time this story has graced /.. He didn't seem to care and has no plans to upgrade until the hardware gives out and the harddrive fails or something like that.
Then he's buying a mac...
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
And get your copy of Windows XP today! That's right folks we are retiring that old crappy Windows 98 software so you need to go out and get XP today!
Let's look on the bright side, Windows ME is still in circulation.
So will they open source it on SourceForge?
Note that this says nothing about support for these products. Microsoft is going to stop distributing these products to comply with the court order, not support them. It really is two different issues.
Now, since some of these products aren't even sold anymore, the only reason this was noticed was because of the notice on MSDN, which is a place you could get these products if you had a subscription.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
WinErr: 000184
Unrecoverable error - System has been destroyed. Buy a new one. Old Windows license is not valid anymore.
Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
Long life to an OS which filled my life with the joy of rebooting, freezing and hardware failure blue screens (since the day of its presentation).
It will be missed! :'-(
Simple,
They'll use retiring all those products to move people to a newer version of Windows, which will arguably be EVEN HARDER for users to migrate away from!
Every time Microsoft is sentenced to a "penalty" they find some way of using it to their advantage.
No reason why this will be any different.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
This story implies that, until this happened, you could still buy Win98.
Is this really true? If not, what does "retire" really mean?
About time someone sent this horse to the glue factory.
I can pirate the shit out of it now?
Retirement? Windows 98? doesn't the word "retirement" indicate that that which is retiring worked? ... hmm
I fear my humble pII/400 laptop still runs with win98se/cygwin hybrid. should I immediately upgrade to windoze 5000?
Look interesting how many people still use this system. Its still the only quite modern OS from windows family which runs on old hardware. And quite a few people in my part of the world still use old hardware due to lack of $$$ for upgrading.
After fast demise of WinME, were there an other option?
Leaving such large userbase without support isn't the Most Nice Thing To Do. But well, welcome in the capitalistic world.
What Java does MapPoint 2002 have in it? Something in the installer? This makes no sense to me.
Someone tell me what Java MapPoint 2002 has in it!
Eric
http://www.mp2kmag.com/mappoint.asp
http://www.mp2kmag.com
Look, most people are going to have to upgrade there hardware for the latest version of XP.
We need to take advantage of this, and convince people to get Linux and give it a try.
Tell them, if they like it and it does what you
need, then they won't have to upgrade.
But if it doesn't do what you need, they where going to have to upgrade anyways, right?
The Linux community does not get many opportunities like this. lets use it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
... Microsoft is not retiring Win98 SE, only versions of Win98 prior to SE. See this.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Due to a settlement agreement reached in January 2001, the following products are being phased out and will no longer available to customers through MSDN Subscriber Downloads or other channels at Microsoft. These products will be removed from MSDN Subscriber Downloads as of December 15th, 2003.
Office XP DeveloperVisio 2000
BackOffice Server 2000
Office 2000 Developer
Office 2000 Tools
Office 2000 Multilingual
Office 2000 Premium SR-1
Office 2000 Service Pack 2
Outlook 2000
Project 2000
SQL Server 7
SQL Server 7 Service Pack 3
Embedded Visual Tools 3.0
Visual Studio 6 MSDE
IE 5.5
MapPoint 2002
Visual Studio 6.0 SP3 and SP5
Windows 98
Windows 98 Y2K
Windows 98 Resource Kit
Windows 98 SP1 (all win98 except SE)
Windows NT 4.0
ISA Server 2000
Visual Basic for (Alpha Systems)
The following product will be updated with Java-compliant versions before the 12/31/03 deadline: Office XP Professional with FrontPage
Publisher 2002
Windows NT 4.0
Small Business Server 2000
Lend me your ears!
I have come to bury Windows 98
Not to praise it...hell, who would?
For a lot of people, though, (me included) Win98 is the only Windows-based OS I do own. I bought my PC in that general era -- not even 98SE. If nothing else, I use my copy to restore my machines since I'm not about to fork over more cashage for XP. If this means no more windows update for 98, is MS then pretty much going "screw you. upgrade..." again? This isn't really compliance but a marketing ploy.
As for me, linux distros are highly available...and they're a lot more stable and easier to install than that old Windows 98 with 15 reboots and scattered drivers. It also generally works well with the hardware I bought back then.
This is particually devistating to our technology department as we just installed Windows 98 on 38 Dells to go in our computer lab and around the school... Microsoft should have provided us with a little warning before we purchased the licensing, or at least offer us an upgrade to the license to install 2000 pro.....
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
Guess it's time to make my box look ugly. I still prefer the old gui to the new one. It trys so hard to make things bright and happy, but all it makes me want to do is puke.
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
Microsoft will retire several of its products next week, including Windows 98 and SQL Server 7, to comply with a court order related to its dispute with Sun Microsystems over Java.
This is misleading. As I understand the situation, they did NOT retire these packages because the court order told them too. They retired them because they did not want to get them into compliance and spend the resources on those packages. That is a big difference.
As with most MS settlements, they win even when they lose.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
While Win98 will no longer be available, I believe it will still be supported by Microsoft for some time, correct?
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Compliance with court orders to remove the polluted versions of JVM does not require that those entire product lines be discontinued.
However, it is in Microsoft's business interest to push users of those products into upgrading to newer Microsoft products, for which they'll gain license revenue AND lower support costs associated with discontinuing support for those old products.
And, it is in MSFT's public relations interests to deflect blame for this action away from themselves and upon enemy Sun and its Java legal action.
Exactly the same red-herring strategy is being used to hold up class action settlements in California and to blame it on Lindows.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Planned obsdelesance and the risk that a lawsuit will force you to pay $$$$ to upgrade or run unsupported applications. WHy take a risk on closed source proprietary solutions? Without the source code software is NOT soft. It is a high risk proposition. Demand open sourced software today!
IMHO, Win98SE was the peak of the DOS-extender Windows family.
WinME was a royal pain.
Win2k was decent as an OS, but not there for gaming. (Pursuade me otherwise, and maybe I'll try to buy a copy.)
WinXP is the 'converged' heir apparent, iff you don't mind ACTIVATION.
Besides, I HAVE a legit copy of Win98SE on my main gaming machine, and don't want to send more money West.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Damn, the end of the article..."Sun has sought to distribute its own Java virtual machine through court proceedings...". Who did Sun piss off at CNET?
Boycott everything - they're all trying to fuck you one way or another
.. a location or method of downloading patches to Win98?
There must be still alot of computers running out there.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Who are we going to call for support of our office machi... oh... right... we never did get any support did we...
If a company ceases to support a product, the source code for that product should be automatically released into the public domain or under and Open Source license. I have a client that has thousands of Win98 machines that are still being used. The the Win98 source were available, Wine would get real good, real fast.
According to Google, Windows 98 is the second most used operating system of the world. It had 30% market share of all web users at September.
h tml
Source:
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.
I would love to know how many Win98 boxes are still churning away happily. There must be millions of them whose owners haven't found a reason to change.
For those people, Win98SE, with Office or even Works, is just what they need. Fast enough, flexible enough, and if they manage to stay free of spyware, reliable enough.
Since most of these people never bother with updates and patches (I mean, who would with a 28.8 modem?) Microsoft's move will mean nothing to them.
Three Squirrels
And this is news?! Our providers have been warning about this for weeks, and it's not happening until January.
What am I supposed to tell my dad when he needs to play Yahoo! games with his Win98 machine?
I am not surprised with the Win98, and SQL7 being phased out, but Office XP Developer? Must of had too much JAVA in it I guess. The bright spot here for me is maybe finally we will start to dump Win98 off of our company desktops once and for all!!! Hell we still have some old relics running win95 fer chrissakes.
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows Millenium
all Internet Explorer except the latest
Start->Settings->Control Panel
;-)
Display
Appearance Tab
Windows and Buttons drop down list
Windows Classic style
Welcome to 1998
I read yesterday that yes Windows 98 the orginal version was being retired, but not Windows 98SE, are you sure all versions of Win98 are being retired?
at this website: www.win98se.cx
I ain't visiting it though, for some reason...
Most of the malware that 98 boxes would vulnerable to will be in the wild allready, going forward, I would expect the Windows code base to diverge further and further from what exists in 98, sorta natural.
That factor is part of it, but the bigger factor is if you write malware, why are you writing it for a niche OS, no longer in widespread use, no longer supported by the creator? As an intellectual exercise, sure, but intellectual exercising is different from malware authoriong.
I would expect the malware authors to write to current versions of Windows, which are far more prevalent, and thereby produce a far more noticeable effect.
"Talk minus action equals nothing" - Joey Shithead, D.O.A.
"Talk minus action equals
-nt-
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
This is excellent news for the quality of software running on computers worldwide, even if it does mean that you'll have to upgrade that old Pentium-II 400 because you can't buy a copy of Win98 to run on it. The entire Windows 9x line (95, 98, ME) was a disaster; fundamentally, there's no real architectural difference between these products and Windows 3.1. (You can even get your computer to boot up into DOS without loading Windows automatically, and then start Windows by typing 'win' at the C:\ prompt, just like the old days, if you go into msdos.sys and change "bootgui' to zero.) By contrast, the WinNT line (NT, 2000, XP, 2003) was designed from the ground up to make use of protected mode, multitasking, and all the other good stuff that makes your computer less likely to crash and actually be able to more efficiently support all the new "features" Microsoft will throw into their next Office suite.
Microsoft is retiring Windows 98 because of licensing problems with Sun. Starting June 1, 2003, Sun will begin suing Windows 98 end-users for IP violations, unless they pay $1400 per processor. Act before the date, and Sun will discount the IP license to only $699 per processor.
So upgrading to Windows XP at only $500 a license will be a huge discount, plus you get a better OS! Even bigger savings if you have a multiprocessor!
-3Suns
~~~~
The Revolution will be Slashdotted
"Windows 98 SP1 (all win98 except SE)"
so SE (Stable edition) will still be supported, or so it seems.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Who has used Win98 support lately anyway? Or who's gone to the store and buy a Win98 license.
SqlServer7? Well, that's different, it's installed on thousands of productive systems and those would certainly need upgrading to a supported platform if your apps are critical mission.
Don't know much about the roadmap for migration of SQLServer7 to 2000, does anyone has info about costs, technical dificulties, etc?
Cost issues aside - discontinuing support for old products (in this case 6 year old products ) is kind of a good thing. It forces everyone to move to new hardware and/or and more reliable software versions (2K, XP, etc.)
At my work we have machines ranging from p2's with 95, to p4's with XP and everything inbetween. it's not only an IT nightmare, but it creates serious issues with printing documents, sharing files, and general workflow. This year our IT dept. has put thier foot down and we are getting all new machines with XP and the newest versions of the software we use (I work for a real estate company who primarily uses various MS, Adobe, Quark, and Autodesk products). Since some of the systems already have XP we have our Win2k server already set up to handle them.
Of course my departments getting all new Dual G5's which is gonna rock, but doesn't really mean anything to anyone outside of our little apple circle.
Ave Molech Setting
Crashes per day:
Linux: 4
Windows 95: 2
Solaris: 0
I didn't see any results with Windows 98 in the study. Presumably it's 1 since it's better than Windows 95.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Please. This *is* Microsoft we're talking about, remember.
You could make MS-DOS 1.1 available for download, and if they caught wind of it they'd sic the lawyers on you in no time.
I don't think that WIN98SE enough code in it to make a team/teams of programers not be able to break it down.
i'm outraged!
i still know people using 95...
now those people are for sure
out to dry...
When the car manufacturors stopped making older cars a whole industry sprang up supporting older models. The Car companies had at first said to the consumer -- upgrade its not supported.
Car part companies won a major legal win where they were allowed to make parts, against the wishes of the car manufacturers because there was an over-riding consumer interest.
At what point must the publishers of a de-facto standard publish its source code to allow others to help the userbase when they choose not to?
parting will be such sweet sorrow. The first mainstream x86OS to be somewhat stable. In contrast 95 looked so bad, it was the fufillment of a promise that microsoft had always given us. With out it, I dare say that the web would be quite different. Without 98, Netscape would still be a domminant company. Who would have filled the void of a desktop Gui? 98 was the ultimate hack. DOS meets Gui, 16 bit in harmony with 32 bit, ugliness and usability. While I eventually left for the stability,security of Linux. We wouldn't really appreciate Linux without having windows to compare it to. 98 had its flaws and those of 95 and 3.1 and Dos, but altogether they made for a quirky upredictable system that couldn't survive a week without a reboot. Ahh the good old days, or bad days.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
and it's going to be a long-ass time until I can afford 2000.
So here in the boonies; win98 is a long, long ways from being 'retired'.
Does this mean the Rolling Stones will FINALLY stop playing and retire too?
What about all those people who waited in line for the computer stores to open so they could buy windows 98? What is wrong with the world?
mature.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's not redundant in this conversation, it's redundant in general.
"The sky is blue" is not +1 Informative.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
I wonder if any of those TCO papers discuss what it costs to upgrade in the next ten years because MS decides to put something in their software to make you upgrade.
"Hey, how are we going to retire all these old products we don't want to support anymore?"
"I know.. blame it on the Sun settlement. Then we can say, 'Sorry, we really wanted to keep supporting that stuff be we can't legally do that.'"
AFAIK, Citizens Bank is still 95% Win98se. New machines are being rolled out as XP where possible, but some departments have and NEED Win98 to run.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
I just trashed my old 98 machine for a new mac. I hadn't upgraded because I had yet to be sold on an alternative. Win98 isn't fantastic, but I did have everything comfortably configured and wasn't about to reload the thing for a relatively similar experience(win 2k or others)
I hung on to that thing because it was reliable, well okay so it would lock up now and again, but it was predictable.
Joan
All I can say is...
W00T!
Learn something new.
To make the marketing push to get users converted to Linux desktops. Take advantage of folks' being "forced" to upgrade their OS.
Lindows/Mandrake/Suse/Etc should be coming up with a special upgrade/conversion offer for Win98 users.
Use Microsoft's announcements against them, use the gap between XP and Longhorn, use their security vulnerabilities, use their pricing... use it all against them. Relentless pursuit. Relentless flock of hungry penguins.
Is the juice worth the sqeeze?
Arse. Time to upgrade the servers.
Thanks US govt. and Sun. You really helped consumers by attacking MS for their use of java. MS's early retirement of 98 will be great news for consumers still using 98.
This isn't funny, it's a classic flamebait.
http://www.windowsupdate.com
To some extent, you did, at least in the way of some minor updates, etc (few for 98 compared to XP, but there were some)
You can also expect new hardware to support 98 even less than it already does. Guess what that means you get to use?
The dos partition cannot see my ext3 partitions.
... the inablity of dos to see a NTFS and ext3 partition grants a stupid person like me the power to restrict the rights of any server I connect to, even those operated by RH-FBI Echelon script kiddies.)
... the stupidity of dos means I can take a little bit of tilt back out of the otherwise totally skewed client (slave)-server (master) relationship. If I approach a server with linux, or a winNT variant, the script kiddies of that server have total control of my system. This is mainly due to a flaw in the server arrogance which permeates the IT domain at the moment.
In this case, the Hollywood/Wall Street script kiddies can have their goddamn free reign of my computer, as inevitably they will. (Don't bother trying to tell me a RH-FBI Echelon script kiddie can't mount a hdd behind my back. Because linux can see every partition, mounted or unmounted, it is less secure. Seems ironical
A few lines in autoexec (mainly regedit, compreg, scanreg, force, and xxcopy) during bootup, and w98se automatically loads the same platform, time after time. dll's and vxd's not on the initial install platform are deleted during bootup.
I know I'm going to get laughed at for this, but it's ironical thinking
The real Microsoft objective is to blame another company for their own failure to support their customers. If they manage to blame Sun for that, they really will have scored a victory. You fall straight into the trap set by Microsoft's press release when you claim: [this means] people that still have their Packard Bells and Dells and the such with Windows 98 OEM copies are not going to be able to do Windows Updates and are basically going to have to upgrade to another PC if they want support.
You don't really question the reason this is happening, accept that something has really been lost and recomend a "solution" to a problem that never existed.
First, what support? For all the trouble "updating" caused, it never did well at actually protecting anyone from the latest greatest Microsoft spread disease. People like you are funny. When an Update breaks X compatibilty or a competitor's software, you shrug or blame the victim. When another program messes with windblows, you cry out loud. When a M$ worm does the same, you want someone to go to jail. It's funny because all three things are the same, but your reaction is different.
Microsoft has always shafted it's customers. Last time I checked a mojority of PeeeCeees still ran 98 or even 95. So M$ is going to dump "support" for the majority of their customers. When you consider the fact that their new OS won't even run on their hardware, you realize support for them is already dropped. When you also consider the fact that Windows 98 won't work on newer hardware with a clock speed that's too high, you might imagine that Microsoft never intended to "support" their software anyway. Signed, sealed and delivered as planned.
The real answer is right if front of you and requires no new purchase, hardware or software. 98/95 users should get themselves a Knoppix CD right away. It DOES work on older hardware, sometimes very nicely. On a single, free CD that can be obtained at the cost of a download, you will have a complete OS and all the goodies. You get your network and printer support, two or three browsers, two Microsoft Office substitutes, music playing and recording software, games, superior scripting launguages and the ability to mount and read your old files, without writing a single byte to your hard disk. It mostly works out of the box, with very little user intervention or effort. What does Microsoft have to offer against that? "Support"? Tell me another one.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I'm not sure how I should react to this.
But personally, my vote is for Windows 95b. The b is very important. That was a distribution that actually worked. If they kept the USB add-ons available I might still have on of my machines running it.
I wonder how Windows 95b would run on a 3GHz CPU with 1GB RAM?
In spite of what MSNBC says (nice job moderators; linking to a story written by an obivously biased news source...), the court order doesn't require MS to stop distributing these products. The court order says that MS has to ship Windows with a Java VM (and not the MS "Java" VM which is not really Java). They've known this was coming for years; they could've updated the products to use a real JVM (as they did with many other products/verions), but, instead decided to stop distributing these old products. Blaming the court order is ridiculous.
Now if they would just retire Windows 2000 and Windows XP (Windows ME does not count).
So, that means we'll be finding Win98 CD's laying around on the beach in Florida?
I still have to work on 98SE, ME, 2000, and XP. The future continues to look bright. I don't think I'll be fired anytime soon.
Visio? VISIO?
:)
Perhaps someone more enlightened can help me. My understanding was that this relates to the Java battle with Sun. MS being forced to stop shipping products without Sun's VM or some such.
Now, things like Win98 and IE I can understand. But Visio? Does MS ship a Java VM with Visio? Why? Is there some sort of Java backend to some of these MS apps that I'm unaware of?
I just find this one highly amusing; we're *just* migrating a pretty large org to Visio 2000. If it's no longer being officially distributed, where do we get more licenses from?
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Gees I hate living in Australia, we get everything so much later than everyone else.....they only released Win98 here last month and now they have stopped support.....sheesh
..there are about 150million users (give or take a few hundred thousand) of Win9x and WinNT out there? Do you? Do you know thousands of people still use Win95?
Microsoft must be retiring Win98 for reasons other than the Sun/Java legal issue.
If Sun/Java was actually the reason, then Microsoft would also be retiring Win2000, which also comes bundled with Java, just like Win98 does.
Microsoft is trying to use Java as an excuse to say they must "retire" Win98. It's just ruse for the real reason -- to boost XP sales.
Nooooo!
:(
They'll still let us use WinME?? Right??
Please Microsoft, don't take that precious jewel away too
God knows, Win9x is the BEST OS ever made. It's better then sex, robots, and ninjas.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
M$ does two things with this maneuver. The Sun JVM has been covered, but what about security patches?
Will they excuse their slow and ineffectual responses to security holes by claiming it's a dead (soon to be almost completely unsupported) product, and that anywho still using it is responsible if they haven't upgraded? Bunch a weasels.
The potato it is uninformed.
It was the best thing to happen to Linux.
When the car manufacturors stopped making older cars a whole industry sprang up supporting older models.
Those entreprenuers had to reverse engineer the parts and come up with compatible/comparible after-market solutions. In software, this reverse engineering has been deemed illegal by the DCMA.
The ruling in the Lexmark case claimed that 'Static Control' who reverse engineered a chip Lexmark added to their toner was not illegal because the toner/chip was readily available to 'Static Control'. I'm not so sure that if this was about software it would work the same way. And who wants to battle the lawyers at MS on this one? The settlement that Sun reached was in 2001 and MS is just now complying?
Alright, you can go ahead and make your millions supporting Win98. But here's a few less painful ways to make a living:
1) Break your own legs in front of audiences. Every night.
2) Test new versions of salt and its ability to make paper cuts hurt.
3) Test the newest Windows UIs until your eyes bleed. Part time only; no one could do an eight-hour day.
4) Try to get Mobsters to pay protection money.
5) Become a mercenary and invade China. Alone.
6) Do an undercover report on how to get out of a Mexican Prison by doing so first hand.
Good luck!
- The Amazina Llama
Lead your pastor on the daemon's path.
Just tried it;)
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Specifically, an ugly 2D icon that makes Mac users howl with laughter.
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
Yes, it will make Win98 abandonware.
Unfortunately the term "abandonware" has no legal meaning; it will still be illegal to distribute unauthorised copies of the program.
Have you ever taken a pre 80's car into get it repaired?? It's either off to some guy named Lou who's got a permanent 5 o'clock and tortures all newcomers with the butt crack from hell or Jethro with his hound always sniffin in everyone's crotch as soon as they approach.
Nah, Win98 was nuthin great anyway, so it deserves to die. I'm like what one of the other guys said in another post: time to get a Mac.
. And frankly, WinXP SUCKS WHEN IT COMES TO RUNNING GAMES!
Frankly, WinXP sucks when it comes to a lot more than just running games.
Seriously, though, what specifically is so bad about gaming under XP? Personally I prefer consoles, but I have a number of friends that play a fairly wide variety of games under XP with no problems.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Actually, The Home of the Underdogs got hit HARD by the ICSA (the RIAA of the gaming industry), and ended up stopping distribution of many of the games. Most of the MS stuff on their site was rare versions of DOS and (of course - THOTU is an abandonware site that distributes software that has flopped) Bob.
Ok for all you Win98(devil) advocates out there, try explaining how stable Windows 98 is to my bosses at Perkins. Tell them how reliable it is when they're sitting at the computer trying to add another employee in, getting to the point where they just have a few more tidbits of information in, and then watching as the system stops responding. I guarantee you'll get a kick in the balls and a complimentary knuckle sandwich. Windows 98 is anything but stable, unless you're comparing it to Windows 95 or MacOS(aside from the newer os x). Who woulda thought OS's would crash, much less crash on a regular basis until 95 and MacOs and their antecessors entered the scene.
But all in all I have to admit that Windows 2k and Windows XP are very stable if you tweak the configurations a bit. Still nothing compared to Linux, but a giant step ahead of their predecessors.
You're nothing; like me.
Who wants a body massage?
Right, they had no intentions of improving or modifying W98SE. In fact, new sales must be so low it was time to shoot it anyway. So nice of them to blame Sun for what they obviously indended from the start. It's so much better than saying that 98 simply sucked, like they said about 95 and 3.1 and you get the picture. Oh wait, they did say that 98 sucks.
As with most MS settlements, they win even when they lose.
As with most Microsoft statements, it was a lie even when partially factual.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I run win98 on my desktop (read game machine and hard drive server). I run win98 dual boot on my laptop with linux. Win98 runs all the games I want, it runs opera, it runs AIM, and it runs my email client. It runs perl, it runs emacs. It connects and shares an internet connection, it manages my hard drives, cdroms, printers etc for my home based network. That's all I need out of it. Anything else I'll do under linux.
I find my win98 installation to be fairly secure. Unless I try and screw it up (ie run an unknown email attachement I was sent by someone I don't trust) it's fine. No services to worry about, no random open ports to be exploited, really unless I try to have the machine hacked it seems perfectly safe.
Plus, it's paid for. I have yet to be given a compelling reason to upgrade to a new version of windows. MS not supporting it any more? So what. It's ran reasonably fine the past 5 years. I'm not surprised MS wants to get rid of it, there's no icentive for there customers to replace it.
--
Michael Feuell
Uses up, to the last drop of usefulness, his old system, then intends to replace it with another kind for which he'll be able to run until the absolute end of its useful service life too, instead of pouring money into another Windows box that is deliberately designed from the beginning with the intention of forced premature obscolesence, both hardware-wise and software-wise.
The first thing I thought when I read the headline was "Wow. That's a long time. Hmm... I wonder what year Win98 was released in."
Well...
You actually own the car.
You don't own Win98. It's licensed to you by M$.
As the owner of my car, it's my choice what parts I want to be in it (within reason of course).
As the owner of Win98, it's their choice whether they want to offer support.
Go FreeBSD.
ROTFL. Notice I'm not trying to defend Win98 but respond to a public need. (I like the Invade China Alone the most)
Even assuming 1 billion Linux users, 0.000000000001% of the users amounts to 0.00001 users.
Pong Sucks yeah, but it was great for the time. 2 Dimensional Games were good for the time. I still play Robotron. The Model-T Sucks, but it was great for the time. C Was great, Basic was great. X Box is cool, but it too will be phased out. Eventually Linux and all the other OS's will be phased out and people that praised them will feel old. The Punch cards of the time.
There are millions of users out there still running Windows 98. There may very well be more users of 98 than XP. Pulling 98 off MSDN means it will become significantly harder for developers to test their code on the platform that still large numbers of users have.
This is utterly disastrous. Companies that say there are risks of working with Linux should see what it means to work with Sun.
--Dan
So is cut and paste.
For Trivial Pursuit buffs the movie "What About Bob?" was reportedly looking for a title to a then unnamed script when a moment of inspiration struck the director who was quoted as saying, "Why not name call it 'What about Bob?' since afterall the main character is probably almost as annoying as this BOB character in Windows?"
Why is this post not modded up yet? Very funny.
Now let's get the rest of the crap they make off the market and Bill Gates in JAIL where he belongs for being in contempt of a court order to stop monopolistic practices.
When a ship crashes they don't blame the steersman, they blame the Captain, because he is ultimately responsible...let's see some of those practices in business now!!!!!!!
They are retiring windows 98 first edition, not both
Believe it or not there is a good side to WinME. My next door neighbour was running it on his Athlon 1000. The machine had never been stable and would frequently re-boot. I think the longest it had stayed up was under 1 hour. He always suspected the hardware, but I insisted he should try XP or Windows 2000 since I knew ME had a (deserved) reputation as a falky piece of crap. I even offered to help him upgrade etc. After putting up with this for ages he ended up going out and buying himself a completely new system, with XP pre-installed. He gave me his "old" machine, and I said I would install something else on it and see if it WAS the hardware, or WinME. I installed a trial version of windows server 2003 and it ran under reasonable load for a few weeks, running some VMs, databases etc. Of course it ran without a hitch. I told him that the machine seemed fine but he said (somewhat sheepishly) that I could "look after it for him". Schweet. It is _only_ an Athlon 1000, but it gives me another machine to play around with. So in summary, there is a good side to WinME! More PCs for me!
Not only are the car makers legally required (in the US) to make parts for a certain amount of time past when the car is manufactured, but often they actually make money selling their own tooling to aftermarket parts makers when they stop making parts themselves.
In the US at least, the car makers do not have an adversarial relationship with companies who wish to continue making replacement parts for cars after the manufacturers themselves stop.
Those Pac Bell's broke years ago, dude! And A door stop is a door stop; no need to replace OS!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I used Win 98 for most of my stuff cause I like some of the older 6.22 games, and they never seemed to run worth a damn on Win2000 - so I stayed with Win 98 -
The funny thing is, I'm also running Zonealarm and a private FW, but it's nice to know the next time some mega XP worm launches it won't affect me too badly...
RB
----------
ah honey, we're all resplendent - Bill Mallonee
I dunno why this is news. I retired Windows 98 a couple years ago. :-)
Humorless sig goes here.
I was reading down the list, scared to death that I would have to upgrade, but I don't see Microsoft BOB anywhere on there.
SAFE AGAIN!!
No, the first time around they used "abort" and "fail."
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
This is all stuff they'd be retiring anyway. The only news is that as a result of the lawsuit they were forced to do what they were going to do anyway. Time to upgrade for the MS dependent. MS is gonna make a bundle.
Of course, the real issue here is ongoing updates for software bugs - most of which are security patches. In the absence of Microsoft providing these patches for Windows 98, the community has released a series of patches for Windows 98 that are not available from Microsoft. These critical patches are available from http://linuxiso.org/
The first dog barks. All other dogs bark at the first dog.
It's dead? Then how come I'm slurping a Win98 image from a local intranet FTP using a BSD tool called Ghost4Unix?
"BSD is about people pissing each other.." (Moid Vallat)
This is not intended as flame-bait or an "My OS is better than yours" statement.
I still use Windows98.
And in case you are wondering, I have also been a Sysadmin and various levels of technical support over the years. I have used various unices for my personal computers for both research and play. And all the different versions of Windows.. my conclusion is that for my day-to-day usage of a computer, Windows98 works best for me. It seems to be the best (and worse?) of all the other versions. There are uses still for MSDOS and the old designed Windows OS. I have, and continue to locate software that gives WindowsXP fits. And I have to be able to play Diablo, Quake and use older software titles. Win98 runs everything I need.
Multiple users? Don't have 'em. It is just me. So it makes managing my stuff easier.
XP and 98 were designed with different intended uses, yet both run 16-bit and 32-bit applications. So I figure I am pretty safe until 64-bit applications become the norm.. but then again, I understand that processors will have a 32-bit emulation ability.. so I am safe for a while, and the older hardware will become cheaper than a dinner for your family at McDonalds. And the software to run on it as free as the bandwidth that I use to locate it on the internet.
Microsoft is still supporting Win98. They're just retiring the product from distribution channels (eg: you can't buy it anymore).
it uses poorly coded timing loops, and generally was never designed for the newer hardware. Things like usb 2, firewire, etc probably wont work at all, or work very very poorly on win95. Also, a lot of hardware coming out now only have drivers for 98 and above.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Good lord! Good thing there's no forking or abandonment of projects by the developers to increase the TCO of Windows like there is with all that open source Linux stuff :)
I'm holding out for the new features of vi 2004.
98 is more stable than 95, and is good for gaming.
I code on Linux, and port to windows.
I was just worried today that the industry keeps trying to make technology more confusing.
Linux raw c++ coding is WORLDS easier and powerful than Visual Basic NET COM or whatever they're using in IT.
A lot of upgrades Microsoft does is that they want:
#1 Cheat out the competition, like win98 did to Java.
#2 Make coding more difficult and obfuscated.
#3 Mix up the screen and add a paper clip so they can sell version 7.0
Microsoft plays a game of laziness. They sit around and collect money, until they see some young company with a good idea. When they see the idea, they steal it, and fund development on a similar product, and make sure the company never gets off the ground.
Takes me a couple of hours.
You must be a real fucking retard.
to read email and surf the net. You fucking zealots make me puke.
NT3/4 was always rock solid compared to Win95/98/SE/ME. Sure it was never the thing to run for games but you can't even compare the two when it came to stability.
My old 200 mhz Pentium is still chugging along with Windows 95...mainly because I have a PC-98. I don't think they ever released Windows 98 for the PC-98, and the FreeBSD wasn't worth the trouble to install.
Actually, automobiles have a law (can't remember what it is called - Grey-Mossen Act or something) that requires auto manufacturers to continue making replacement parts for a certain number of years after discontinuing a model. Also, in the automobile industry, recycling has always been a huge thing, which is why it is still possible to find (hard to, but possible) refurbished Model-T parts, among everything else. Auto recycling has been going on ever since there were autos being made in mass quantities, just because at first in order to get replacement parts you *had* to go to the dealer. Now, only certain stuff (but it seems like more every year) is a dealer part - a lot can be bought from auto parts stores/dealers. These parts are either reman (ie, recycled, cleaned, repaired, tested) or "new" (licensed or otherwise, not sure).
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
That's what IT's said when the Mac came out.
What was best about Win98? Easy to pirate.
I think, I've known more people with pirated copies of Win98/98SE than those with real copies.
Another reason M$ is doing this. It makes no sense to provide support to pirated software.
I think I think, therefore I think I am.
and a joyful chorus rises up from all who work in tech support jobs! yay!!!
now if theyd only retire Windows ME and add an internal PPPoE client to 2000!
"As part of our settlement and license extension with Sun, we can only modify the Microsoft virtual machine until Sept. 30, 2004," Goodhew said. "After that date we will not be able to modify the virtual machine for any reason, including security. We will not ship products that include a piece of software we cannot provide security fixes for."
Interesting, that could be a valid point. What is the turn-around for SUN on security issues? I'm sure there must be some, but I've never heard of them. Certainly not the weekly holes and patches that seem to be released for your basic Microsoft applications.
What the judge said is that they had to use SUN's one-true-Java. Rather then change their applications to use the standard SUN Java, they decided to scrap them. Litigation took so long that some of these programs are close to their end of life anyway. How Childish.
Windows 98: 29%
Windows XP: 38%
Windows 2000: 20%
Windows NT: 3%
Mac: 3%
Windows 95: 1%
Linux: 1%
Other: 5%
This data is the most recent -- at "September 2003". I wonder why they haven't updated it. Maybe Google is dying (or at least, Google as we knew it).
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... You spent money to buy Windows 98. If you didn't legally sign the license agreement (say you were a minor and contest the contract..or you bypassed the EULA screen), then you own a copy of the program. I'd go further and claim that trying to force you to sign a license agreement taking away some of your rights is the same sort of racket that was resolved under First Sale Doctrine. You have a right to use, modify, paper mache, etc a copy you bought and even resell it. You just can't make distributive copies.
Now, on to the more specific case; the actual argument would be more like MS trying to bar the distribution of binary patches or clean room implementations of various Windows 98 components, like win.com for example. When car manufacturers were told they could make car parts, the courts didn't hand over copyrights or patents to them. They simply stated the obvious, the government shouldn't be interfering in legal trade just because one industry is unhappy about it. The fact that the DMCA could be used to hender this future trade, though, makes me think that the legislature doesn't realize the simularities of the situation. I also fear that when the courts do get around to the DMCA being challenged they won't realize the parallels either. This is one reason I think it wouldn't be a bad idea that when the DMCA is eventually overturned that an anti-DMCA law is written. Maybe while we're at it, we can get a more solid definition of what "limited" means. I don't think a lifetime is even remotely limited.
"Which is nice."
Actually, I'm glad that Microsoft is finally retiring Windows 98.
Given that most machines built since late 1997 in the ATX form factor use at least 168-pin SDRAM to expand system memory to 384 MB or more, many of them could run even Windows 2000 Professional relatively fast (I'm running a Celeron 500 MHz machine with 384 MB of RAM installed and Win2K Pro runs decently fast, thank you very much!). Besides, once you install Service Pack 4 and all subsequent patches Win2K Pro is actually a very stable OS, far more stable than Windows 98.
I've had more grief over the years from Me users than 95 and 98 users put together - they should keep 98 and drop Me.
IMO the damned thing is so twitchy and unstable it should never have been released, whereas 98 by comparison just keeps on going, just like NT4 SP6a which I believe to be far more stable than either 2K or XP.
Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
I know for slashdot the subject is a little weird, but i find 98 quite good. I mean, i run it fine and it hardly ever crashes. Some programs are worse than others and then its not MSs fault (although better memory protection may be needed) but 3rd party apps.
Thats a damn shame they had to stop supporting it. How many people stil use it? I know of a few and i think i'd rather use it thanx XP, but then, i'd rather use linux than anything else.
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
looks like a call for a windows/ms dos/win me/98/95 device driver library and/or service pack library.
OK. Sun won but MS will remove products no longer available. Seems like they will now charge for updates since they have to correct their mistake. Too bad for Office XP Developer. I see many angry CIOs for the next few days. Oh well. At least Win98 is finally dead. I had that and it would crash from being looked at. IMO, this is why OSS is superior to money obsessed businessmen and programmers who have no pride in their trade. MS needs all new personel.
the x86-64 architecture will NOT RUN WINDOWS 98 because windows 98 is not a completely 32 bit OS.
Hmm... search and replace might make a better friend in this case.
>Sure it doesn't beat my Linux boxes which have stayed up for years at a time, but it's no where near the "crashing all the time" reports that I've read.
Of course, considering the recent reports about kernel bugs, unless your Linux box is sitting unconnected to any networks, years of uptime may not make you the smartest admin. Just an observation.
You don't own Win98. It's licensed to you by M$.
...you have purchased a copy of Windows XP. There's no other way to interpret the transaction. Subsequent dialogs presented to you during installation are irrelevent. No where on the box, during the sales transaction, or on the sales receipt does it say "license to use Windows XP".
Let me put this as politely as I can: bullshit!
I don't own the copyright to Windows, but I damned well own my copy of it and the CD it came on. The software industry pretends otherwise, but the reality says differently. The only reason why they've gotten away with it is because the courts have ignored the situation.
When you walk into a store, pick up a box that says "Windows XP", see a price tag that says "$199", walk to the sales counter, hand over $199 plus tax, and receive a receipt that says "Windows XP",
It's like buying a fork. You may not have the copyright to the design on the fork, but you still the owner of the fork. You can use it, throw it away, give it to a friend, or sell it at a garage sale.
I have stopped buying commercial software for this reason. They are engaging in illegal bait and switch. I've got no problems if they tell me up front at the time of purchase that I'm not really buying the software. At least that's honesty. But I'm sick and tired of the outside of the box saying "product" and the inside saying "fooled you, it's really a license".
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
For just another $199 you can the Linux source free and clear.
Oh good luck to that buddy! When they said "a computer without the source code is like a car with the hood welded shut" isn't too far from the truth. Except perhaps it would be better to describe it as the entire engine compartment sealed in steel. If things break, cutting it open makes things worse. And also, it's Microsofts product. If they decide to kill it, it's dead. It's *not* like your car. You don't *own* the software (it's licenced, not sold). Theoretically, they could make you stop using it.
Slashbots love to say there is "spyware" in Windows XP and yet never mention it.
Please state a *single* example of spyware existing in Windows XP.
Also, XP doesn't tell me or anybody else what to do at all. Wow, it pops some informative things up the first time you run it. That sure is controlling...
"Sufferin' succotash."
It's 1998 all over again! Never mind the fact that Clippy hasn't been around since the late 90s...Bob even earlier...let's continue making the jokes halfway through this new decade!
Win98 had DCOM, RPM, and many other holes. I remember people crashing each other on IRC just by sending commands to the TCP/IP stack.
"Sufferin' succotash."
*sigh*
oh, yeah?...
well... it... it...
HA! Activation! That's gotta be spyware!!!
I mean... it sends stuff out to the internet without letting you see it. its gotta be spying on you
free speach
Did you mean: free speech
Three words:
Free Zone Alarm.
Any questions?
The Penguin Producer
I thought windows 9x was limited to a 47 day uptime?
I spotted a nasty bug in it recently even though they've had years to get it working.
Grandmother, never used a computer before -> Linux.
Rejoice! Microsoft is beginning to fall!!!!
If we are just looking at the Windows tree that was rooted in DOS, up to and including Windows ME, then it cannot be argued that Windows 98 SE is relatively stable compared to its predecessors and the abortive bastard child called Windows ME.
If you want to include things based more-or-less on a "real" operating system concept, then the more recent Windows 2000/XP (haven't played with 2003 server yet) can be more stable than Windows 98, but at an increased cost - it takes a much better machine to run these.
For "the" mainstream OS, if you're not running at least a 500-MHz machine, I'd recommend Windows 98SE. Of course, I'd recommend you wean yourself off of it to just about anything else (BeOS, Linux, BSD, eComStation, etc.), but for gamers (who, let's face it, have a much easier time getting their fix in Windows), 98SE is still not a bad way to go.
I use it myself, a few hours a day, sometimes leaving it on a few days a week. I also use Windows 2000 (still BSOD's about once/week, but is on 24/7), and several varieties of Linux (all stay up and running until I tell them otherwise). I don't use XP, but that's partially a design sensibilities thing - I think it's hideously ugly.
Ah, but this is where it gets interesting for those of us who don't live in the U.S.: German law doesn't recognize this little license trick that Microsoft plays in America. I own that copy of Windows98 on my laptop, because I bought that laptop and didn't rent it out or lease it or whatever. In theory at least, I can resell it, too -- but who would buy it?
(Before somebody asks, yes, it boots SuSE by default and we use it as a portable X Terminal to the real computer downstairs and the next laptop is going to be an Apple anyway)
We hardly kne....errr...Boy, did we know you! Farewell!
This doesn't surprise me since it's an MSNBC article, but:
Sun has sought to distribute its own Java virtual machine through court proceedings and in distribution agreements with PC manufacturers.
Doesn't this paint Sun in the light of being the bad guy (like SCO) who just wants to get ahead through litigation?
Nowhere does the article mention that Sun invented Java and that it is THEIR technology, nor do they mention that M$ Misappropriated Sun's trade secrets, stole their intellectual property, infringed upon their patents, and otherwise defrauded Sun out of money they would have otherwise earned off of their Java product...
Assholes..
Reminds me a little of when I was a student.
Borland were selling their C compiler cheep to students. When they sent me out a copy of it, it came with a card saying that it was just for a licence covering me when I was a student. I had to uninstall it when I finished.
So, of course, they were sent back with a note saying they could poke the disks up their bum (or words to that effect).
Went back to the higher ripped off version that I got from Uni (which I stopped using when I left there anyway)
Windows CE
Windows ME and
Windows NT
Windows CEMENT was born...
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
years of uptime is what gets recorded for servers by netcraft. X does crash, yes, but the kernel? I've had exactly one instance that could be a kernel lockup: X hung and after a full hour I still couldn't get a console so I got fed up with waiting and rebooted. So there definetely was a problem. That's one lockup per roughly 5000 hrs of uptime and pretty taxing use. On the other hand, I have a hard time believing people who say they managed to run Word for weeks without rebooting on Win98. My experience is more on the lines of a day with just one reboot was worth remembering.
You know, I don't use 98 often. But when I need it, I always wound up doing all of these updates. Shame MS doesn't offer a disk with the whole thing on it before they quit support.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Let's see now... a *court requirement* is prompting M$ to dump Win98. We all know that they were gonna do that anyway, right?
What a coup for UserLand! Take that M$!
I think it'd be real nice if Microsoft would send out a CD to each one of their registered XP owners once or twice a year that'd contain all the patches/drivers/service packs/etc released in that past year. A good motivation to register, plus it'd show M$oft cared at least a little. I just reinstalled XP and it took hours to get my system back to "normal".
Even had problems online when MSBLAST rebooted my computer continually until I got the flat update from a friend. I guess anyone who grabs a CD and tries it install in the future will have the same problems...
The Linux kernel may not crash, but the parent's point was that long uptime means no reboots for software patching. Some things can be patched without a reboot, but there's a long-standing kernel bug where any program can become root... probably time to reset those long uptimes, I think.
Also, I, and many of my friends, still run Windows 98. It's quite stable. Not rock-solid, but I rarely get crashes. My wife's computer, running '98, started getting really flakey. But was that because the hardware was failing? Maybe. In any case, I've had Windows 98 running for a long time. I don't usually reboot my computer at home unless I have to. I went about 4 months without rebooting '98 once. I found that my stability depended almost entirely on the quality of my NVidia video drivers, since they were invariably the component that failed, requiring a reboot.
There are certainly concrete arguments one can make for the NT line of Windows that would imply it won't crash as much - namely concepts like protected memory, which means that when a rogue program crashes, it can't take the OS down with it. So how does it keep crashing?
The answer (in all likelihood) is drivers (or something similar). If you have a driver misconfiguration, buggy drivers (of which there are tons - more than wads of stepped on squished chewing gum on city streets) or the like, then the OS will crash all it wants, because drivers aren't protected like applications are. So, if you've got a relatively stable Win98 machine and a WinXP machine that crashes a lot more, you've probably got bad drivers on the XP machine. If your situation is reversed, then well, the situation is probably reversed.
Of the three factors that could cause an OS crash (rogue application, buggy OS, buggy drivers), I would say with a good deal of certainty that a LOT of the time, it's the buggy drivers. This conclusion is based on having run tons of Windows machines with all the different versions as an end user with a lot of custom hardware, and noting that if you tweak it just right and dig up enough information (google, deja) about the hardware and drivers you're running (soundblaster was always a big problem for me), you can get a rather stable system - the only time I reboot my XP box is to upgrade something, and that's maybe twice a year.
(note: i don't have much experience with WinME and it may be a glaring scary exception which emphasizes the "buggy OS" clause - any thoughts? is it just the Win98 drivers or something?)
These days the pendulum is starting to swing back. It is rather easy to develop cross platform applications for OS X, BSD, Linux and such. The same goes for embedded devices, also running Linux, BSD, QNX, etc.
These days, Internet applications are essential and no longer optional and these platforms are designed from the ground up for Interent use and thus rather secure and robust. Microsoft's whole business model was to leverage the DOS near monopoly into a Window monopoly. These days it is to hide the fact that it's current product line is not Internet ready and to treat design and production flaws as a PR issue, blaming the user if their machine gets a case of Phthirus microsoftus pubis every time it gets plugged into the Internet, checks a tainted web page, or receives a mail.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I thought it said "Microsoft Retries Windows 98."
HORRIFYING.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Seriously, in *every* case where someone complains that their Windows setup is unstable, I've found one of three factors is actually at fault:
1) Crap hardware and/or drivers
2) Lack of basic maintenance (frex, defragging)
3) Installing tons of crapware/spyware, and/or uninstalling apps via the "random deletia" method
The average Windows install, with *ZERO* maintenance and much abuse, lasts about three years before it reaches a point where most Joe Users think it needs a reformat. Meaning it's gotten slow, and crashes more than once a week or so. (Tho so far I've only seen ONE Windows setup that I couldn't quickly clean up and restore to good working order, *without* a reformat. Reinstalling stuff is against my religion. :)
Serious question: Can a default linux install survive three years of daily abuse and neglect, by clueless users who nonetheless stick their fingers into everything in reach, and still be functional enough to be merely "annoying" (the state at which most folk give up on a neglected WinSetup)??
Linux proponents are always saying that anyone who thinks linux is hard to get running good are just ignorant. Consider that the reverse is also true -- that anyone who can't get Windows to run stable is equally ignorant.
Because frankly, folks, it just ain't that hard.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Yeah, leagally it doesent mean aything, but many schools and other educational institutions prohibit trading of warez on campus. However, most of them does not care about abandonware.
Damnit, why am i even caring? Who would intentionally install Windows 98 anyways?
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
Win9x getting "really flakey" tends to indicate a hardware fault. I'd look at power supply first, then memory, HD, etc.
:)
I also expect Windows to be stable for long stretches, and strenuously resist both rebooting and reinstalling
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Why are they retiring Office XP Developer so soon??? I still use it and am not looking forward to migrate to Office 2003 (aka the Fisher Price version). Office XP Developer is still fiarly new.
...When Microsoft became the "RedHat" of the Windows world.
--#!
Who ever is responsible. I'm sticking to Win98 until the make a version which doesn't require Activation!
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
you don't know where i can download MSIE 55 and the service packs? :)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Am I the only one who thinks retiring NT 4 is far more significant than retiring win 98?
It's perfectly safe. It's us who are in trouble.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
yeah, I figure it's a hardware fault. Though it could be because she upgraded ICQ recently. In any case, the machine is so old that it wasn't worth thinking about it. I just bought her a new one :)
Come over to my house, I'm sure I can concoct a few flaky machines if you feel an urge to replace any more of 'em with new ones :)
:)
(Myself, I horde just about any hardware from around P100 on up. Some days it looks like an old computers home around here
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Because dodgy hardware doesn't usually even boot, and Win9x getting "really flakey" doesn't often point to bad hardware. And believe me, I've seen plenty of 9x machines since 9x.
Probably because particularly in the case of bad PSU or memory (or memory that's just a wee bit out of spec for that motherboard, even tho the label says it should work), it takes a while for data corruption to catch up with you. And it depends what's getting corrupted, too.
Actually, if you put a meter on the power leads, you'd be surprised how out of spec they can be and the machine still boots and *appears* to run fine, tho over time becomes prone to random reboots, random single bad sectors on the HD, and the like. I know one old techie who's seen that often enough that the voltage meter is the first tool he reaches for when repairing middle-aged machines, especially with cheap PSUs.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Well, I'd love to, but I'm busy that day. But seriously, I know how you feel about the old-computers home. I have several that are waiting for a yard sale next summer :)
Just bring 'em on over here. I'll give 'em a good home. No need to make them feel like unloved junk waiting for a neighbour with 50 cents in their pocket. :)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?