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Finally A Major-Brand Desktop With Linux, Not Windows
Fugwidzard writes "Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price, the NewsForge review says, but no modem, and even optional modems are Winmodems although they say they have Linux drivers for them. Plus it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway, and a step in the right direction for HP. Supposedly they're going to have all their PCs 'Linux certified' in the near future. I hope other big PC mills do the same."
Evesham supply a preloaded, supported, all nicely configured system.
mmmmm... taste the preloaded goodness...
foo mane padme hum
Is dell not a major brand?
The ones I put together look better than the one in the picture. What's the point of shelling out the big bucks for something that doesn't even look good?
"Windows version of the d220 does include a modem option, but it is a Winmodem. HP tells me there is a Linux driver available for it on the Internet."
So if I read this right, you have to go on the Internet and download a driver for the modem in your new PC. Um, unless I have broadband, how am I supposed to get on the Internet to download this driver?
Seems about as smart as putting the installation instructions for your CD-ROM drive on a CD...
What is the price of the same configuration with Windows? Logically, the same configuration with Linux should cost slightly less
My guess is this is a testing-of-the-water here, see how things go over, probably mixed with wanting to take the easiest route. So, they toss out a machine, note they'll have everything certified, and see how it goes in the commercial market.
.
On a related note, how long is it going to be until SCO is mentioned in these comments . .
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
This is very promising. It takes just one "industry leader" to step up and make that first move, no matter what it is. Now others will take notice and go "hm, well if they can do it, so can we". I wouldn't be surprised if we've got two or three more major suppliers (wait...are there that many left?) following suit. The floodgates have been opened.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
The modem issue is not a big one, I don't think. Many people today are using broadband, so as long as there is a network card in the box it should be all right. Also, in case they do want a modem, at least they are providing Mandrake. After installing Mandrake 9.0 and 9.1 on my box at home, I was amazed that 9.0 told me I had a Winmodem and gave me a URL to find out how to make it work, and 9.1 even installed the Winmodem drivers! (If only Dell had not given me a Winmodem in the first place...)
Given that God is infinite, and the Universe is also infinite, would you like some toast?
There has been a major brand desktop computer without Windows, since 1984 even. There's lots of good reasons for Linux vs owning a Macintosh, but you've had choices before this.
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$tar -xvf
HPQ is already up 1% for the day, and it's early yet. Of course, tech's been bullish this week so it might be coincidence, but clearly the market doesn't dislike this move.
One has to wonder whether this is a setup just waiting for problems. HP's target audience is first-time and entry-level computer users with little computing experience, let alone installing an OS (be it Windows, Linux, or otherwise).
It's like telecommuting -- it can be great, but if your organization isn't ready for it you'll run into all sorts of problems and both the boss and the employee will be left with a sour taste.
We have a few of the HP Itanium workstations that came with Red Hat Linux preloaded, so they are selling some machines with Linux preloaded on them. Of course, for $8k+, they'd better come with the OS preloaded, right? ;-)
Until a major player like HP can offer tech support and an actual pre-load, Linux will still be limited to the more hard-core user.
Anyone who would be using Linux, at least in the USA, would just build thier own system, download Linux off the net (or even buy the retail box of the OS) and have a higher performance/price system.
The whole reason why I would ever buy a retail computer would be for the warranty. Now for the common joe-user out there, the warranty and support is something they need.
Put Linux on that system, then what's the point if there isn't support, let alone pre-installation.
... in the article.
$467 with Linux, $519 with Windows XP Home, or $589 for Windows XP Professional.
It's cheap budget PC. I mean the most RAM it can have is 256Mb...40G 5.4kRPM hd...yay.
I really dislike how Linux keeps getting labeled as the "cheap" solution to Windows. Yes it's cheaper than windows but thats not the ONLY advatange.
I hated how AMD was viewed exactly in the same way when compared to Intel. "The cheaper solution.."
In Soviet Russia, the television watches YOU!
I'm not really chomping at the bit to pay HP to put a desktop box together so I can run Linux on it. If I'm gonna master the installation and configuration of the OS, why wouldn't I be willing to assemble a barebones system? I want a new computer to be either easy or cheap; this isn't either.
Yes, a step in the right direction but... Why couldn't they do it right? It wouldn't take much for a company like HP to do a decent preload. (Even Lindows has accomplished this!) I'm sure that HP has the right infrastructure and skills to do this job right. Just good enough should not be good enough!
www.mikesmind.com - www.daddyworkathome.com - www.freetofarm.org - www.tenfoottable.com
I dont really care about big pc sellers selling a crap pc with a linux option. Id much rather see the same retailers offering a their pc's with no operating system so buyers with some computer knowlage can chose what OS they put on it. Be it linux or an existing copy of windows.
What do you mean. I do everything I do on windows in Linux on my DVD drive.. libdvdcss is easy to find :)
That while you don't pay for linux being preinstalled on your machine now - you will.
WTF? I thought HP sponsors Debian. Actually, I know they do (click on their sponsor link on the front page). So what's with this Mandrake stuff when there's Debian-based desktop-oriented distros like Knoppix and Xandros available?
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1. Factory machines are WAY over-priced to begin with. Existing Linux users already know the benefit of piecing a machine together themselves and how much it shaves off the price.
2. If they are trying to attract "new" computer users (or users who aren't as experienced) to Linux, they're in for quite a surprise when they get massive amounts of returns. "Hey, none of my existing software works with this.. This machine is going back to the store!"
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems like this would only benefit in corporate environments where they need to use Linux and don't have time to piece together machines.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
"Plus it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support."
That's the way I prefer it, actually. Whenever I buy a manufactured PC, no matter who it's from, the first thing I do is format and reinstall, even if I stick to the OS provided. Who knows what was installed from the factory? (Probably nothing bad but all it takes is one bad employee.)
I can't say I'm surprised by the company not offering support. Having worked supporting home PC users I know that they're far from savvy and can be testing at the best of times, downright infuriating at worst. If you then throw 'Linux' into the mix which is less user friendly than Windows - though it is getting friendlier by the day - you'd end up with a lot of frustrated users and techs. I doubt we'll see Linux being installed and fully supported on PCs sold to Joe Public till it's at least as user friendly as Windows. Which for all its faults, is quite hard to mess up.
yeah they're microtels, but at least you can get a PC from a "big" store WITHOUT paying the gates tax. Why don't more people know about this?
To me they always seem to require expensive memory for it to be guaranteed to work, un-upgradable components, and arcane BIOSes that run a version of windows to configure it.
This is all well and great for big companies that want 1000s of the same PCs for easy maintainance and vendor support, but for the average geek it is nothing but trouble.
I'll just stick with buying components or bare-bones PCs, those have always been without M$-Tax as well, thank you.
That means about as much as saying a computer is 'Windows certified', or that my PlayStation is 'PlayStation certified'. What I want is to be able to buy custom built computers from Dell or HP/Compaq (not HP/Compaq they take too long to build your computer, it took nearly 4 weeks when I ordered a new computer from them last month. !), WITHOUT an OS, and WITHOUT all that extra AOL crap and whatever else they throw on/in with a preloaded computer. What ever happened to be being able to buy a computer without all that crap.
Dont manufacturers pay Microsoft based on units shipped, and not what's shipped on them?
Looking at the spec's to this PC, it sounds like a typical corporate desktop box. The only thing I see out of the ordinary is it sells without windows. Whats the friggin point? Granted its nice to be able to purchase a PC without the MS tax, but frankly, you have been able to do that for years with WhiteBox's anyways. The type of company that would roll linux across the desktop seems to be the "roll your own" type company as it is. You would figure they would see the appeal in buying no-name pc aswells.
I would have a different view of this, if it shipped with support, and properly pre-configured... but nope.Neither HP nor Mandrake provides any free support for Linux. You can, however, purchase Mandrake email or telephone support as an option when you buy or from MandrakeSoft directly. I dont see a single advantage for a company that is going to buy a linux desktop to go with this PC. Perhaps im missing something here? But, if you are going to forgo support... why not save money, and cut HP out completely.
As to servers... well, this machine is powerful enough. At least at my work, we for space reasons will only buy rack mountables at this point in time anyways. I think thats pretty standard the world over... so that kinda ruins out using this machine for say... DNS.
As to the home user market... well... the article says it best.Since the d220 is aimed at business users instead of home users, I didn't think it important enough to comment on This machine isnt aimed at the home market... and you can buy alot more, for alot less.
Had HP offered support, I could see the value here... but in the end, its just a overpriced Windows PC, without windows... with a copy of Mandrake chucked in... YAWN!
To play DVDs
>Now if only dell would do the same eh!! Actually it should be read " Now if only dell would be FORCED TO DO the same eh!! " . All these companies are in bed with microsoft and they want free/opensource to not grow as proprietery software protects their crappy business model best. All of them have been trying to prevent the growth of open source movement by all means. But when it reaches the point where they cannot do the same any more, they "JUMP" in to the open source band wagon. Thats it. Not offering the linux preinstalled desktop(or desktop without OS at all) is the best example for this practice.
http://www.nasirudheen.blogspot/
Bought a few of the 315 boxes when they were available with Mandrake. Comparing to the same box with Windows there was around a $40 savings. These have nForce MB and Athlon 2600+. No problem so far, only thing is that you need the latest XFree86 version, or use the nVidia video drivers. For a box with the specs and 3yr warranty, the price was very good. So far no troubles.
Just bought two of the newer 325 models, they have nForce2 and Athlon 2800+. Disappointingly, Linux is no longer offered, had to pay the Windows tax. Only hitch with these was hassles with the builtin 3com based ethernet. Punted and added cheapo PCI nics that are supported by our distro. Still for a box with 3yr warranty and the specs, the price was good. Ordering online was easy and delivery was quick.
For our software, getting the same performance from an Intel box would have cost $200-$300 more. The Celeron box that the reviewer had is going to be way slower that nForce+Athlon combo.
Still wondering why compaq has backed away from the AMD+Linux combo.
Lets be honest - this is getting less and less of an issue. Most people who want a linux box have broadband.
I have a HP PSC 750 (scanner printer copier) and have not yet found a way to access it from Linux. I am sure there are a lot of people in the same boat. Maybe this will get the fire going to get HP to support its output devices on Linux.
...you pay the HP tax? Dell's got a much lower cost operation and can afford to undercut HP by a substantial amount, you might as well just buy from them, and get your copy of Windows for free (relative to the price of the equivalent computer from HP w/o Windows).
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
According to the GPL:
3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
Seems that a) was not done. Can anyone confirm if b) is?
hmmm... let's see...watch movies, view data... am i missing something?.
Now I think I'm going out on a limb here; but just maybe it could be used to read / play DVDs. Don't quote me:
Paul Lenhart writes words!
You're telling me the only difference is $52? No regular user is going to choose Linux over Windoze XP just to save $52.
Back at home in India we have desktop computers from IBM (here), Acer, hp/Compaq and a few more local brands that come pre-loaded with Linux(Mostly Red Hat or Turbo Linux) and have support from the dealers/manufacturers for 3 years.
You also have all major computer magazines giving out DVDs and CDs with RedHat, Mandrake, Peanut and Knoppix. There's a magazine called Linux For You, here, that gives a modified Knoppix distro(they even tell you how to modify it) with every issue along with another cd that has anything linux that one might need. And these magazines retail for $1 to $2 (Rs.50 - Rs.100) on the roadside.
Surely, American corporations are more afraid of Linux than the general(non-geek) population.
There hasn't been a great clamor in the consumer sector for *nix boxes. Those in the know sculpt their own (or buy Apple, of course).
I interpret this move by concumer-friendly HP less as their being proactive vis-a-vis consumer needs and more as their being proactive to get the best OEM deal possible next quarter with Redmond.
This is the type of stuff that must absolutely friggin' terrify the MS sales-suits nurturing the OEM supply chain. The fact that other consumer dealers could follow HP's lead is even more chilling to them. The sound you hear is a half-dozen executive sales assistants in Redmond slamming open file cabinets and searching for contracts their bosses can review with an eye towards sweetening.
Ultimately, whether you are a fan of Linux or Windows, you benefit. A Good Thing.
What good will a DVD drive be on a Linux machine?
Yes and no, but only on saturdays. If your lucky you will end up in history books.
It's good to see this finally happening... it's quite sad however it didnt happen a couple years ago with Gateway and Amiga... Thanks a million microsoft for talking them out of it >:[... i used to have a commodore amiga 500 and 2000.... those were WONDERFUL machines. the IBM bridgeboard i had would run IBM things faster than an IBM would run them at the time...
*sniffle*
But in any case, it's a real nice thing to see this all going in that direction...
I would like to point out a few things. First I think the fact that the system is shipped w/o mandrake installed is good (for lack of better vocab) because it allows you to customize it as much as you want to. Whos to say that HP would know what kind of compliers and servers you want running on your pc. On the flip side why not just install all the services mandrake has to offer. And if there were to be another flip side it would be that mandrake is not really customizable so who cares just install the whole thing. I mean it is obvious that no one reading these posts would buy such a low end computer when they could build one for free. The people that are going to buy it are the same people that couldnt configure linux if their lives depended on it. Second mandrake is a French company (French moderators move on and read the next post) I had mandrake running on my system and I was too lazy to switch to debian eventhough it was my time in the Linux evolutionary order. After recent events I have not used mandrake in about a year and am running soley on debian.
If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
It's a shame, because it seems that the main benefit of a company like HP offering this machine would be to help increase the OS market share of Linux. If it doesn't do well because it doesn't appeal to new buyers, will the corporation (and competitors?) decide that this is a failed experiment and leave the linux market to people like wal-mart?
Maybe corporations that hire their own tech support would go for this - be more likely with pre-installation, though.
It needs to have a small Linux partition on the harddrive that will boot into X with some critical apps such as a browser, ftp client, wget, nfs etc.)
When the system boots it can present the user with a menu to install one of many distro's either from accompanying CD's or via some other method (i.e. web, ftp, NFS etc). It could also be used as a rescue OS.
The manufacturer can script the install for their particular hardware so the user only has to answer the obvious questions such as their locale, username and passwords.
From excellent karma to terible karma with a single +5 funny post...
It's a business computer. It seems to me that businesses using dialup at the employee workstation is the exception, not the norm. HP doesn't necessarily care about supporting drivers for those businesses anyway as they are probably still using computers from the 1980's.
A slashdot article from August last year mentioned that the MS OEM contracts prohibit an OEM from shipping any box without an OS. Dell got around this by throwing in a FreeDOS diskette. The target audience was corporations that have volumn licensing agreements and who wanted to install their own licensed copy of Windows without paying for a redundent version. Looks HP is adopting a similar trick to sell OS-less boxes for corporations who will then install their own OS of choice, probably WinXP-Pro or Win2k-Pro. I think the Mandrake CD's might just be trick to get around the MS contracts, similiar to Dell's use of FreeDOS. If these are being sold for corporate networks, most will probably end up running windows.
Did i miss something over the past 2 years ?? was i asleep?? We have a Dell with Radhat 7 installed on it, and that's the way it came from the factory, even with some redhat disks and support.
I would consider Dell a major PC producer.. Guess to get frontpaged on slashdot all you have to do is mention a "linux" powered anything.. any one want to link to my new inventions, linux powered toilets and a linux powered vibrator.
Of course, you do have to order them with RedHat, but they do give you the option.
Right off of the Dell site:
Linux Products
Dell Linux Overview
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
I prefer to buy an external for a number of reasons and a few extra when dealing with Linux.
I like being able to turn the modem off when I'm not using it. Some modems are preconfigured to answer the phone some aren't. It's just easier to turn it off when it's not being used.
More portable. Being that modems won't be upgrading any time soon the option of installing my modem on future PCs is very appealing.
But more than that a good RS232 port modem is pritty much universal.
Everything from the old Commodore 64 (with RS232 cable) to an iMac (with USB to sereal addapter) and everything in between.
I have a dial up modem had one for years and I don't even use it.
The modems offered by OEMs are always Win modems not worth it.
I did once consider buying a modem card but that was becouse the sereal card wasn't much cheaper. But I stayed my course.
Anyway for $20 a month I get cable internet a 64k baud. Not quite broudband of course but it's cheap and effective. No screwed up phone lines to deal with.
I don't actually exist.
... for first asking a question that the answer was obvious, and secondly for acknowledging that the answer was there all along, right in front of his nose. Moderators are definitely on crack this morning.
"What good will a DVD drive be on a Linux machine? "
DVDs can be used to store data or video, the DVD drive could be used to retrieve this information.
If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
No text, fucker.
I hope that most people who have gotten past using the major brand-name monopoly operating system have similarly gotten past using a major brand name company-who-puts-computers-together (and I use this expression because I think to say that they build computers is a bit absurd)...
go check them out.. I'd include the link but hey, your on Linux.. you should do it yourself.. and anyway somebody on Windows would just ask if I could make a shorter link anyway..
I just bought an HP laptop and apart from 3d acceleration under X, linux works great. I'm wondering if they will make all of their PCs "Linux compatable" retroactively so that i will have full hardware support. Regardless, usually drivers get written eventually by somebody although it might take longer than direct intervention on the part of HP.
Good question. Too bad you got scored -1. Moderation is getting really bad these days. Of course you're also getting posts saying "read the article". The article doesn't address this issue. Anybody know about the "Microsoft Tax" and care to enlighten us?
Is it just me, or is the tide really starting to turn in the last couple of months? I realise /. focuses on these things, but there seems to have been a lot of articles lately about major organizations, militaries, governments, school systems and the like straight-up turning thier back on Microsoft in favour of GNU/Linux or OSS.. (and even starting from scratch a la Japan/China/Taiwan).
Is Microsoft really starting to lose thier grip? Will we look back 5 years from now and chuckle about how MS had such domination, but by then they will be less relevant? With Microsoft "out of the way", will this allow other OS startups (not linux or bsd types) to flourish? I.e. will BeOS get re-invented as a commercial product? Plan9? Something brand new?
do() || do_not();
Nice troll. I am betting that the only piece of truth in that whole post was "flame me."
Given the pricing of this box, you can:
spend $467 and throw the Linux CDs away
spend $519 and throw the Windows XP Home CDs away
spend $589 and throw the Windows XP Pro CDs away
Which do you do?
(Those of you out there really in IT support can now tell me what's wrong with the above. My last sysadmin work was around 1996...)
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
There are a number of DVD-ROMs on the market too. I believe you can buy both Debian and Mandrake installations on DVD.
... the silver-front box with the Compaq logo on it. We got one of the very first demo units from our local Compaq sales rep before HP rebranded and recolored the boxes. They had something in the BIOS that prevented either SuSE 8 or Redhat 8 CDROM disks from even booting up. I tried the floppy-based installation and Linux would install, but both LILO and Grub would try to start the kernel and it would then freeze up solid after the kernel uncompressed and tried to start. I put the Windows XP Pro cdrom back into the machine and the re-installation of XP went as normal and the machine worked fine. I asked our salesrep about this and he said that the BIOS on these demo machines was deliberately written to not run Linux due to some agreement with you-know-who.
(at least not always)
Dell currently has a deal on the Poweredge 400SC, with rebates that's ~$300, with free shipping. Celeron 2.2Ghz, 40GB Drive, 128MB RAM (buy more if you want it), no OS loaded, onboard 10/100 NIC (Intel, I think), AGP 8x, 800MHz bus speed.... Take a look. It's worth it.
The problem is that these major computer vendors like HP and DELL are so in bed with Microsoft it will be hard for them to execute a truly fantastic Linux solution on the PC (not servers mind you...that's a different story) without pissing MS off.
Pissing MS off is a BAAAAAAD thing if you depend on them for cooperation in developing support (drivers, OS support for hardware, etc) for the next big windows release.
So... HP is trying to experiment without stepping too hard on MS' toes.
Damn I hate how much power MS has over these guys.
Is the juice worth the sqeeze?
well nice. hp and all that. but when it comes to linux i think everyone would pick an ulb from lac
Stop Computers/Cars Analogies on S
>they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support ... for whom?
>Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway
from the numbers published over the last few quarters, it really looks like HP is losing the PC war with Dell (well, basically everybody is losing). Is HP pushing this because they're desperate enough to try anything (including risk a MS reprisal)?
I mean, nobody's under any illusions when it comes to whether or not MS plays hardball, right? You get the feeling this is one of those ventures where they hope to sell "many, but not so many as to trigger MS unhappiness"... between a rock and a hard place indeed.
The fact of the matter is that most Linux enthusiasts are just buying their systems through white box manufacturers. A number of these companies offer systems without an operating system or pre-installed with a Linux variant.
If all goes well and Linux does become a viable alternative on the desktop, these white box companies will be in a better position to take advantage of that market. They'll have had a chance to gain some customer loyalty, and they'll have the support structure in place.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Actually, there isn't anything after the ...
From the point of view of a PHB, if you buy this with Mandrake, you'll attract the ire of SCO, and Microsoft will send the BSA stormtroopers round to make you prove that you're not running hooky Windows installs.
The SCO issue isn't that serious, but the BSA one is a real headache for IT departments. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if some shops will buy this with XP home on it, then install a linux distro over it, simply on the basis that HP certify it for Mandrake (and soon SuSE and Red Hat), but they don't want the BSA sniffing roun. Result: HP sees poor sales figures for the Mandrake option, and assumes that nobody wants it.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
For Joe Sixpack, that quite literally doesn't give a damn about ideological reasons, will never as much as look at the source code, they'll care about features and price. Linux is good, but superior features in general isn't a major selling point, so then there's price.
Price of the OS matters the most in a budget system. That being said, all the largest online PC builders here (Norway) offer OS as a drop-down alternative, though normally it's Windows or "none". So if you want a high-end PC without Windows, just get one. Custom built even, and at good prices.
And, thers's nothing preventing "the cheaper solution" from becoming "the cheaper and better solution". If just the product is up to it...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The market her would be to tune each system to the customers exact needs. Why have a browser if you ain't gonna surf?
Sell the system somwhat more expensive than the windows system, spend the money on configuration. Guaranteed higherquality system.
Unfortunately when I tried the d220 all I got was 157, and the other guy rolled a 192, so I died.
Seriously though, now would be a great time to unleash an ad campaign for this and claim "this computer is immune to all the recent viruses you've seen on the news."
Hmmmmmmmmmmm!
Dell has been selling systems with Linux on 'em for a while now. HP seems late to the game.
Support is via RedHat.
Does this mean they're going to start calling it Linux 2004, etc?
That's a catchy phrase. Linux 2004 (based on the latest stable kernel and packages of 2003).
Hammer of Truth
If you live in the U.S or Canada, great! But, HP Australia still uses harris technology as a distributor. HT make it appear as though WinXP Pro is the only OS worth owning. The way it's presented on their website is very -smug-. Anyway, it looks like a nice system. A shame I can't buy it because I refuse to pay for an OS (WinXP) that I will invariably remove the day I receive the machine. Farewell HP :'(
Oh yes, it couldn't have ANYTHING to do with the decreased cost and complexity of supporting only one platform... Or the atrocious bargaining position they're trapped in with Microsoft... Or the frickin lack of consumer demand for Linux computers. It's all a grand conspiracy by The Man to keep Open Source down.
Dell does sell Linux preinstalls, actually. And these companies realize that someone who has the know-how to use Linux in their enterprise also has the know-how to not use their solutions in the first place. What would HP/Dell/Gateway gain with a major push of Linux other than a pain in the neck?
I'm all for supporting Linux, but expecting computer manufacturers to push Linux as hard as Windows because "it's the right thing to do" is ludicrous. "The right thing to do" is what your customers want; and their major customers want Windows solutions, not Linux.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
You don't remember Knoppix or Xandros? And Debian's the first distro I *ever* installed when I switched totally away from Windows in 1997.
Help us build a better map!
What he means by "geographical preferences" is such things like Japanese users prefer to use Mandrake, US users prefer Redhat, Germans prefer SuSE, etc...
The Windows world has no such preferences, everyone gets their one "distribution" of Windows, the only difference is the localization of the Windows OS (English, Japanese, Korean, etc).
A very good point. But as it has been pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, the article notes that this line is aimed at business.
There is an increasing, albeit still a niche, interest in Linux on the desktop in that sector. We've seen the articles. And I've worked at a couple large organizations (corporate and government) that are either working on or already deployed an officially supported desktop Linux base.
On the other hand, I suppose this could very well be a chance to push back at Microsoft and strike a better deal. Certainly for OEMs. However, in my two examples, the deployment of Linux desktops has been less about replacing Microsoft and more about serving a demand from the organization's users.
Creating a "Linux compatible" desktop doesn't require too much effort these days. But there is the occasional hardware vendor that should be avoided for a Linux desktop. HP seems to be doing the footwork for business users in providing a desktop that will accept the blessed standard Linux desktop load - whatever that may be. With the usual guarantees and hardware support one tends to look for in a large hardware supplier.
wee bit pricey, no?
You need to look at the higher level systems. Take a look at their workstation line.
One example.
http://www.hp.com/workstations/ia32/xw4100/
So basically this is getting a computer $100 cheaper... so you can install your pirated copy of XP for free.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Sounds like an okay box from HP at an okay price ... it's not a true Linux preload - they give you a couple of Mandrake CDs and you're on your own, no support. Better than paying Microsoft tax, anyway ...
You can also get a nice box from Dell with FreeDOS or Red Hat Linux (also can get with Windows). I think Linux is a true pre-load, but FreeDOS is not - they include a CD-ROM with the FreeDOS distribution on it, and you're on your own to install it. Dell only offers these to Canadian customers, AFAIK. We ran a news item about this on the FreeDOS Project web site, and it's still on the front page. Check it out! Here's our news item:
Dell Canada has updated their site, and they no longer offer the Precision 350 desktop with FreeDOS. However, they do offer the newer Precision 360 with "Free DOS Operating System Kit - CD with Source Code": small business and medium and large business and higher ed and health care desktops. Nice systems, too: up to 3.06GHz CPU. For Canadian customers only / Pour les clients canadiens seulement.
Dell did this, Compaq still does to some extent, and now HP is getting into it. The problem is that you have to dig though all sorts of stuff, or just call them outright if you want them. And then calling is having to talk to a supervisor, because the first sales rep will have no idea you can get a non-Windows PC. I've never gone to either of these three "major OEMS" that are "supporting linux" and actually have the option to either buy it in their normal storefronts, or though their normal distributions.
How is someone even soposed to know that linux is an option, if under "Operating System" you have only the choice of WindowsXP Home or Pro? The special linux PCs are usual so hidden you couldn't find them with Ponce De Leon, a GPS, and a personalized Googlebot.
So this is all a non-issue. Until I can go to hp.com and under their normal site, just see the "Mandrake 9.1 (subtract $52)" option on their site when I go though their store and chose "Operating System" for a new PC, it's all just smoke and mirrors.
Maybe HP is afraid of retaliation and harassment from Gates for selling non-MS desktop in the US market.
...yet.
It's too late for MS to slow Linux sales in the server market, but in the desktop market, they still are monopoly. I can see HP try not to take too much risk at this point in the US market. In other words I don't think Fiorina has enough guts to say "f%ck you" to Gates face to face
>"The right thing to do" is what your customers want; and their major customers want Windows solutions, not Linux. WRONG! Many of the customers want PCs with no OS at all atleast(forget linux installed PCs for the moment) . Still they were not offering it. There is nothing preventing them technically in doing so. The only issues are non-technical/political In many third world countries like india in fact most of the people want PCs without any OS. Still they are refusing to offer it.
http://www.nasirudheen.blogspot/
With a SCO Linux license going for $699, HP must be planning on selling a lot of linux applications for these boxes to turn a profit :)
"Damn I hate how much power MS has over these guys."
That "power" is all in your head. Microsoft has no more power over HP than Coke has over Joe's Rib Shack.
If MS tried to play hardball with HP, HP can push right back. HP could switch all their boxes to preinstalled Linux and ship all their printers (their bread and butter) with Linux and Mac OS drivers only.
Most of Microsoft's power only exists in the minds of the paranoid.
HP's CEO has been on record saying that she plans to "ship as many jobs overseas as possible".
Thats about all I need to know regarding HP, as far as i'm concerned.
Bowie J. Poag
I'd have to agree with your other statements, though.
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
I just don't want to buy Microsoft products, as a vegetarian I also don't like restaurants where all meals are $5 except for the vegetarian ones, they cost $10. You are now telling me to just buy a $5 meal and throw away the piece of meat, just as I can erase windows later. That's not the point, the point is that I don't want to buy meat.
It's not the installation that presents the problem, it's the configuration. Mandrake does this better straightaway, no question (I use Debian exclusively now, Mandrake before that, so I'm not just spouting out my hole).
Knoppix doesn't get used because it doesn't stay in a stable configuration for very long. (New CDs every week? Nightmare.) This is not to say it doesn't or wouldn't work, but rather if HP is going to ship out CDs they will want to have a distro they know will be around for a month or two, if not much longer than that... [me ducks]
Also don't forget that Bruce Perens, who was tasked with helping HP out, no longer works for them. A small thing in terms of the bigger picture, and necessarily a political concern, but still worth keeping in mind.
========================================
Death will come, and will have your eyes
-- Pavese
We bought about 15 of these to start a linux desktop rollout. They came with mandrake 9.somthing. They have some kind of onboard broadcom network adapter that isnt recognized in other versions of linux installs like redhat and debian. So you will have to get a module or new kernel for one of those distros. Other than that they are seemingly nice little machines. We ended up just using the mandrake version that came with it.
Refer to my previous comment where I mentioned their lousy bargaining position with Microsoft. Microsoft OEM licenses forbid selling PCs with no OS. Dell gets around this by mailing a FreeDOS diskette with a machine, and now HP is sidestepping it with the Mandrake Disk offer.
The question is, if a user is buying a machine with no OS, why would they buy it from a big name instead of building it themselves cheaper, and why would a big name want to support it not knowing what the user will have installed on it.
How many flavours of Linux are there? BSDs? Plan9? BeOS? Ancient operating systems that have no business being on the PC except that a Geek owns it? How can a big name hope to support all those configurations?
Simple answer: They don't. They expect that if you're going to roll your own OS solution you'll also roll your own hardware solution. If you want OS-less PCs to avoid the "Microsoft tax" there are vendors out there who specialize in that. Tier One vendors specialize in selling you a preconfigured solution that they can support.
Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
If HP were to pre-load Linux on the machine then they would be "distributing" GPL software. This would mean that they have to abide by the GPL. This might mean making the source available on a server and maintaining it. It also means that you give up some of your patent rights. Even if they did pre-install it, they might charge an "installation fee" to make sure that you know that they aren't distributing it themselves. It is just easier to say that Mandrake is distributing and HP is reselling.
Lasers Controlled Games!
HP's workstation xw4100 is listed as having Redhat Linux preinstalled.
Sounds to me like a good reason to put the drivers in the firmware, and communicate via a common API.
Of course like all good ideas it will not be implimented*.
*I should point out that this would eliminate the problems with getting hardware to work with Linux.
Oh come one - who the hell uses those still. Even the people out in the hills have some kind of highspeed access, DSL, DirectPC, or some other form of wirless like P2P (Point to Point). And the fact that these services are low in cost (around $40/mo for a 1.5mb connection) there isn;t any reason to keep including modems in systems. Especially if the systems are "name brand off the shelf for the popular crowd" - meaning most people.
Then again I understand the linux community likes their systems old and unique and would rather spend money tweaking and shogunning their modems than spending half the amount on a newer and more productive piece of hardware.
Don't mind me it's too early in the morning to make too much sense....
Ave Molech Setting
We need a major manufacturer to treat Linux like a first-rate OS citizen--completely installed, works with every HW option they offer, plus an identical level of support to the Windows offerings. Anything less will turn away mainstream customers in droves. Hell, most of those people think Windows is too hard to use, yet HP thinks they'll be willing to climb over even more hurdles to use an OS that won't even run their kids' games. Duh.
we all build our own boxes and install gentoo anyhow, so who cares?
Sure Dell with windows can undercut HP w/o windows...they make cheap chinese crap that shits the bed a year after purchase. Not that i'm going to buy a PC from either company...I can build a better PC for similar price and pick whatever OS I want on it.
"There hasn't been a great clamor in the consumer sector for *nix boxes. Those in the know sculpt their own (or buy Apple, of course)."
/. post about "getting looks" when buying (the now discontinued) Red Hat retail boxes, I'd like to believe that a Red Hat desktop prominently displayed on a new PC would garner not only looks but sales inquiries. Years of MS strong-arming has made that impossible, so maybe the historical factor of what people clamor for should be discounted?
I agree, but it's like the real meaning of "popular" vs. "widespread." Ever see a *nix box with a shiny new version of Red Hat displayed at a PC store? Didn't think so.
Considering the numerous comments made on a previous
Someone know how to let the members of the European Parliament know about this? I believe that only if PCs come dual boot, the abuse of Microsofts monopoly can be broken.
Bert
PC manufacturers are guilty of perpetuating monopoly abuse by M$ until they include a partition with Linux pre-installed
Where will I hold my beer then?
I bet HP is just offering a box for people who have their own OS (like XP pro) to install and want to avoid paying Microsoft tax for a second copy. This group might be confused by preinstalled Linux and think that Windows, Solaris or FreeBSD are not supported. CDs are just there to appeal to a smaller secondary market and to prevent any claims of encouraging piracy. Of course, Microsoft might regret the Naked PC blurb when they hear about the workaround.
we sell a version of our software to run on Linux and use HP hardware now, with xeon processors. We just shipped a client the hardware and all installed on one of these HP / Compac proliant servers. It was a pretty sweet setup, but should be for 6k. It did not have any OS installed, and putting Linux was easy to boot ;-). Also they have a remote shutdown control that you can connect an ethernet to and I think it either runs Linux or xp, the nmap fingerprint showed Linux though ;-)
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Would it be possible to repartition "dynamically", without reformatting? Bert
PC manufacturers are guilty of perpetuating monopoly abuse by M$ until they include a partition with Linux pre-installed
if you don't want the one bargain desktop, or want a laptop, you're still SOL.
I just talked to HP a week or two ago about purchasing a laptop with Linux. No go; they only sell MS Windows. How about sans OS? No go; Microsoft forbids that.
Vote with your wallet--visit Qli and buy a PC. You can buy Linux laptops, including one with a 17" screen(!) coming out soon, or a desktop or workstation system, a pre-modded workstation system, servers, rackmounts, the works, and you can get dual-booting systems! Their sales staff was phenomenal; I'll tell you about the laptop when I purchase it.
If you don't want to buy Qli, try Emperor or the others listed at www.linux.org in the vendors page. The prices can be comparable to the offerings of major vendors; they just don't have nearly the advertising budget. You can't tell the major vendors you want Linux on the desktop by settling for the Microsoft Tax.
Buy only Linux systems, help the little guys out, and then turn around and tell Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. exactly why they lost a sale (preferably with a formal snailmail letter, to add the extra oomph). They'll listen to a lost sale a lot more than someone who might have bought another system from them, and the Linux vendors, being small guys, will definitely appreciate the sale.
Ultimately, whether you are a fan of Linux or Windows, you benefit. A Good Thing.
I'm throwing a mod point used in this discussion away, but it must be said.
Yes, this is a good thing, but only for the large OEMs (Dell, HP, etc). However, it may be a critical strike to already struggling mom n' pop shops who still essentially pay full price for windows licenses, even for OEM. My company ships around 30-40 PC's per month, custom built for each customer. Naturally, the customers (mainly home users) wish the latest version of Windows. Unfortunately, our cost for an OEM version of Windows XP is substantially more than what the bigger names are getting it for. If to HP, XP home is worth +/- $52, why must we pay $89 to Redmond for the same product for the same purpose? I know they have volume licensing plans, but if by offering Linux, they sweeten their cost per license, where would that leave the independant shops who pay essentially retail price for an OEM product? Suddenly HP is offering sub-$400 machines with Windows, while that is the cost of components alone for an independant shop of similar configuration.
Somebody comes up with a Revolutionary New Device (TM) which they then proceed to write their own API for. Another manufacturer makes something similar, and
Gets sued.
Will I retire or break 10K?
sort of "linux certified" hardware, particularly if others follow HP's lead, is that it might finally mean 802.11g for linux. Hope for this rather than the vendor simply making "linux certified" boxes gimped with 802.11b.
I generally go with the full distro (Mandrake) every other one or so, so the inclusion of Mandrake "lite" isn't of much interest to me. It is the "certification" that is of interest...being confident that the laptop I buy from them will actually work with linux without too much dicking around.
I want friggin' 802.11g damnit!
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
just to have the PC Linux certified. It's a pain in the butt trying to figure out what sort of crappy hardware they've stuck in the machine and whether anyone who'd been stuck with same was mad enough to write a driver.
Of course, not paying the M$ tax would always be a good idea...
Big Brother Bush is doubleplus ungood.
Mandrake has been praised for its ease of installation/configuration.
Then why didn't X11 "just work" last night when I tried to install Mandrake 9.2 RC1? It found my ATI Radeon 9000 video card (one VGA, one TV) and recognized it as a Radeon with dual-head, but when I tried to test X during installation, I got the following error:
Will I retire or break 10K?
The last version of Knoppix I tried 1. didn't appear to have 2D acceleration on my Radeon card, 2. locked the CD-ROM drive, requiring the user to have two CD-ROM drives in order to get anything done, and 3. took several minutes to load the default graphical web browser or the default word processor.
Will I retire or break 10K?
True. However the situation doesn't need to go to the extremes your mentioning. Remember on video cards theres a lowest-common-denominator VGA standard. I can stick a video-card in any machine and more times than not get a display. Not the greatest mind you, but a usable display nevertheless. Modems can do something similiar, were you have base connectivity, to get online and get what you need to proceed the rest of the way.
BTW Why aren't modems integrated into the MB? Everything else is.
The problem is the "you're on your own, no support" aspect. I tried to install Mandrake Linux 9.2 RC1 last night, and though the installer found my Radeon 9000 card, I got the "Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration" error when I tried to test X11.
Will I retire or break 10K?
I have never had any problems getting components replaced.
You obviously haven't been through the experience of component makers pointing fingers at one another.
Will I retire or break 10K?
And this is why business avoid the GPL
Why is it so hard to ship source code tarballs? Are they too big? Many can be slimmed down. For example, stripping everything out of the Linux kernel that does not apply to the x86 architecture would probably save space.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Non-geek PC users don't need two office suites, a collection of spreadsheets and a "raft of browsers". They need one of each, and they want that one to "just work".
Linux needs to move away from it's "shovelware" tendancies.
Linux geeks don't ussually buy low end machines(celeron, onboard video, low ram etc.) that aren't possible to upgrade(no agp slot). And people that normally buy low end machines don't even know about linux. So who exactly is thier market for this product? or is it intended to fail.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
Gateway sold their servers preloaded with Redhat back in 2000. Just do not ask them for support, as they would not answer any questions, Hardware or Software, if you were using a "third party OS".
They considered anything but MS 3rd party, that must make them a subsidiary of MS, for as far as I know, Gateway is not a developer of operating systems!
We since dumped the Gateways in favor of IBM.
Alright, time to start the count down. I think they'll make it 6 months. Any one else like to place bids on how long they'll continue this? Many vendors have tried the Linux route and simply found that there really was no demand. Linux users generally don't buy from Dell, Gateway, HP, etc.
So, 6 months. What do you say?
scott
even to this day the models that they offer linux on are such that all the hardware included works equally well in Windows or Linux. Did you think that was an accident? They actually bothered to get their configuration tools to detect and correct any potential hardware issues with multiple OS's. That was much more than I expected of them, and all I really expect.
I just want them to replace my hard drives when they die.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
If you've been using a DVD drive as a cupholder, and you still want a cupholder while watching DVDs, choose one of the following:
Will I retire or break 10K?
I still have a box they preloaded and didn't change much, and I never had that problem. I hardly needed to touch the machine for a long time.
They actually had a really decent setup (and drivers for a soundcard that weren't really available at the time).
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
What in the hell is all this going on about the Modem crap? Could I also avoid the modem tax please? I guess I am spoiled living in an area that has Road Runner...
Onward to the Aether Sphere!
About 3 months ago, I wrote an e-mail to Dell to ask them if I could buy a computer without Windows. They didn't even respond to me.
I'll be building my own, thank you. But this is a great choice for companies that need a lot of inexpensive computers that don't run Windows.
We need major companies to warm up to linux. Some (like Dell) like you to think that they are Linux friendly but then give you the Monty Burns "cold, dead, fish" handshake. And send you on your way. IBM has been being the good guy in giving us kernel goodies. HP has been doing cluster stuff. Gateway doesn't even show up on the radar anymore. But if they can be good on their promises about the desktop then maybe we can get somewhere.
Unless you prefer Intel for some reason, the HP Pavillion 210e with Win XP is still a lot cheaper. So even if you buy that and replace Win XP with Linux you're getting more for your money than with the comparable D220 with Linux. Granted, you don't get to thumb your nose at Microsoft... but I think HP could do more to offer a real cost savings to consumers who opt to not pay the Microsoft tax.
How can this possibly be considered "a step in the right direction"? The entire point of having a factory installed linux PC is the need for end-users to be able to get SUPPORT. A couple of CDs and then "You're on your own." is not even close to support. Why are these companies so afraid of providing support for a linux desktop? Can't they try it in a specific market and see how it goes? Most people who would want linux on a desktop would never use the support anyhow, but if you are a business looking at these machines as an alternative, you WANT support. This is more like jogging in place than moving forward.
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
Does anyone else think the reason HP won't automatically install Linux on these offerings is because they are trying to shield themselves from any litigation from SCO while trying to make a quick buck of Linux enthusiasts? (or, perhaps their contract with Microsoft states HP cannot ship any PCs with any other installed operating systems or they'd lose their special pricing on Windows). If they [HP] ship them [PCs] without Mandrake installed, I guess they [HP] can claim they are only selling bare-bones systems and that liability for the Linux OS would fall upon Mandrake (who quite possibliy is paying HP a bundling expense) and the end user for installing it of their own free choice. Therefore HP would escape any liability of directly distributing the allegedly IP infringing Linux operating system...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
Yeah, finally you can buy a computer from dell or HP and use your mandrake CDs to install Linux on it.
Heh, are we really this dumb?
Why wait for HP or Dell to release these preinstalled systems. Just buy them from one of the many Linux dealers. If you do this then perhaps those Linux dealers will gain more market share and become a major-brand desktop. Ever stop to think about that?
Major-Brand is almost synonymous with monopoly.
Are Ford and Chevy monopolies or just Major Brands?
Why does everything think freedom of choice means 2 options instead of 1?
Debian install is now an easy thing, because of Knoppix.
/usr/local/bin/knx-hdinstall
Just boot into Knoppix (which works well for *most* x86 machines with 128MB of RAM or more). From a terminal, type:
# sudo
to start the script which will install Knoppix to the hard drive. I've done this on several machines, all of which had either completely blank hard drives from the get-go, or I wiped completely whatever distros had been there previously.
Main caveat is that fdisk is no fun, would be very frustrating to someone unclear on how his hard disk should be set up. (Especially someone wanting to dual boot -- I'd have no idea how to do this).
I believe the hardward recognition stuff in Knoppix is mostly from Mandrake, so whatever praise / hatred you have for Mandrake's recognition would probably still apply here.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
HP is not well known for their tech support like Dell. It's probably one of the smartest move for this offer.
If they offer ineffective and lousy support, it ends up shooting this new business line as well as the linux community for worship an OS... not even the HP titan can help.
~ Just a thought - Pee Wee
Yep, its going to take a while for comments like this to be 'heard' but there is still a lot of unnecessary complication in most all Linux distributions (extra software, then application naming and then file system hierarchy).
Its just a wait game at this point and people who are already using its not very troublesome (but sometimes amusing).
Quack, quack.
It's actually $52... *ominous reverb*plus your soul*/ominous reverb*
So it's like a $53 value.
At least it's better than the $5 that Bart got for his.
...would cost $467 with Linux, $519 with Windows XP Home, or $589 for Windows XP Professional...
That's just a savings of ~$50 USD on XP Home. Even if you saved twice that much, if your time is worth anything, then the Linux box will cost you that and more in the short run as you hunt down drivers, upgrade packages, and tweak your configuration. Alarmingly this could be a clear demonstration of MS's logic. Bundled with your PC, Windows actually doesn't cost much; a subtle undercutting of the competition. Actually, it argues in spades that what Linux needs is a Killer App. Something to make people say, "I _need_ Linux because I want to do that Killer App." Achieving parity won't unseat Windows and one suspects neither will a meagre cost savings.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
... as open source drivers are non-existant. As far as video cards are concerned, your best bets are NVidia and Matrox. You can get linux support for the card however in two ways. First of all, use the VESA video driver in X11 instead of the Radeon driver. (change the driver line in /etc/X11/XF86Config to "vesa" from "radeon") This is a good stopgap measure, but it lacks support for the full set of features.
;-)
The second method is to use the binary drivers from Schneider-Digital.
To provide maximum compatibility, the driver is built partially from source. So you must follow these instructions in order to successfully install it. It shouldn't be too difficult as you have a recent version of Mandrake, so your kernel should be already ready to go, without need of patches. If you get stuck, this fellow has written a mini-HOWTO to help you along.
You aren't on your own... you have Slashdot!
Now stop repeat-posting your bitching and GET TO WORK, oh, and we would appreciate another mini-HOWTO documenting your effort so we have another model to work from, and we can learn from your mistakes. Your slashdot journal will suffice if you don't want to weaken the theme on your webpage. Thanks.
Fuck Beta. Fuck Dice
Fry's always has this curious computer for $200. It's running some Linux distro called "ThizLinux". I think it's Taiwanese. It's from a company called GQ, which until recently only seemed to make cables and a few smaller items (like mouses). It's only a VIA C3 800, which is part of the reason it's only $200. They have offered other types of systems before, I think Linux is good for moving an ultra-cheap machine rather than cutting $50 off the pricetag of a full blown machine.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Sam's warehouse ( http://www.samsclub.com ) has a Linux box for $278 preloaded, a faster (2.2 GHz Athlon) box got mid $300 range. These "major" brands are no better than the beige box screwdriver shops when it comes to supporting Linux - maybe less. Cheap is good.
Organization? You must be joking..
Yes, Debian is a nightmare, but Xandros is FAAAARRRRrrrr easier to intall than Mandrake. You can get by with a few clicks of the mouse and you are done. In fact, Xandros has the best installer of any distro: READ THE REVIEWS!
Xandros is clearly the leader on the desktop and it does make absolutely no sense to go with the buggy difficult to use Mandrake.
Xandros makes much more sense. It is has far few bugs, supports many Winmodems, Windows Networking (including Active Directory), and for the love of G-d, let's you run Windows apps like Quicken.
This is such a NO BRAINER, I'm completely shocked.
Hunger is the best sauce.
RIAA is loved by me. I love the RIAA. They are so good.
i guess we need something else to laugh at don't we.
For printers, its called PostScript and the driver is called CUPS. The closest you'd get to a standard below that woulf be hp-PCL.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
That's innovation, not anticompetitiveness... you insensitive clod!
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Umm, but aren't we paying the Mandrake tax?
This is why I build my computers. I pay no OS tax. I go to a friends house and burn myself Gentoo, and I'm set.
But QLI Linux doesn't charge any less to have Gentoo preinstalled (where Gentoo costs $5 to buy, unless you burn it yourself) than to have Mandrake preinstalled (which costs $40).
Wish I could build my own laptop. Time to break out the camcorder. Record myself opening the box, doing 5 lowlevel formats, and installing Gentoo. Maybe I can get a Windows Refund!
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Who said you were allowed to get through life without thinking?
Help us build a better map!
The HP xw4100 with Linux preloaded looks more like a real computer.
Is it that much trouble to use an external modem or an internal with its own DSP? Besides, those winmodems can tax the hell out of a CPU if you need to do something intesive with your PC simultaneously. (i.e. online gaming.)
!@#$% whole-grain cereal. When I want fiber, I eat some wicker furniture. - G. Carlin
Of course on slashdot, the vacuum of business reality, it can all be blamed on a microsoft conspiracy.
Consider this possibility:
Desktop machines (not "workstations") are for home consumers. Mothers and grandmothers..
Dell provides user support for their desktops.
All computer companies have a difficult time providing satisfying support to consumers.
Now throw linux on the desktop into the mix.
You would have to train all of your support staff to be linux experts (or at least create all new scripts), etc. They would need to be able to walk non-computer users through tasks like setting up a printer, watching a DVD, etc. This would not be an easy, nor inexpensive task.
Instead, they are better off just offering linux as an option to the customers that buy workstations and servers: businesses. Businesses that can afford to pay higher support costs.
That's my conspiracy theory.
Fact is, a lot of people who buy this box will use whatever linux distro they're happiest with; those who are just dipping their toe in the water (so to speak) will use whatever comes with the box (Mandrake in this case).
Xandros normally charges, but I'm sure they would work out a deal with HP to get things started. Would likely due for free for the publicitity etc...
Hunger is the best sauce.
Token effort, token results...It reminds me of this: http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/ev1crush.html
...on how long until HP gets sued by M$? ;)