Except they WON'T have the material. No material, no crime.
Uh, you don't need that in civil court. That's where you lose money over negligence. Trust me, you'll lose that battle if you don't keep logs. Especially when the plantiff's attorney shows documents from every other ISP in the country is retaining the same type of logs for 2+ years and yours is 30 days.
And, this is excusing the fact that they're suing UPLOADERS who are offering the files, not DOWNLOADERS
Oh you aren't here to discuss things. You are here to EMPHASIZE any sort of MISTAKE someone makes while typing 80 wpm. Let go, young one.
who are taking them even though stupid news outlets (news outlet: a group of people who couldn't find their own asses with both hands and a flashlight, but have lots of out-of-context statistics that 'prove' otherwise) like Yahoo! keep saying "Suits Against Music Downloaders".
Blah blah blah flashlight, blah blah blah Yahoo! we all know the media is an uninformed tool. No point even bringing that up.
Along with suing Novell - it was announced today that SCO has been lobbying Congress about the horrifying ways that Linux and the rest of open source software saves users money, allows others to use the software anyway they see fit and 'gasp' causes SCO to not make as much money as they would like.
And if Congress even thinks about complying with SCO's requests, I will drop my American citizenship like a brick.
I wish I could feel confident that these guys will be laughed out of the building, but they have some $ that the Congressmen are probably interested in.
The phone company keeps logs so they can BILL you or update services when they get overloaded. (There might be a law for them though...) ISPs don't have a law and may not be billing for time "unlimited" dial-up, so they can delete them if they want.
Negative. Let's make up a situation:
Haxx0rX has a dial-up account with 'unlimited' access. He uses this account to down the store backend to a large shopping website. The admin of this site contacts the feds after locating the originating IP of the attack. He hands the information over to the feds. The fed contacts the abuse department of Haxx0rX's ISP. The ISP responds "Oh, I am sorry, we have already deleted those logs. But, yep, that is one of our IPs. So sorry!". The company who was hacked no longer has any legal recourse against the hacker because you deleted the logs in an unreasonably short amount of time (30 days?! When I did abuse, we held on to everything for a minimum of 2 years to avoid these situations). The only option left is to file a suit against the ISP for whatever damages you incured. This is simple negligence. The ISP will quickly lose the case due to their log deleting policy, and the hacker is never found.
The parent poster is projecting way more responsibility on the ISP than there actually is. A gas station is expected to control if a stolen car gets fueled up or that the gas isn't used later to burn kittens or something, they are just expected to safely sell gas to anyone who wants it.
That doesn't fit anywhere in this thread. Quit trolling.
This is correct, but that is only if the ISP is an ethical business.
The flawed logic I am trying to dis-spell is the "I could start an ISP, then my friends and I can hack sites all day long, not keep logs, and be immune from any prosecution." idea.
Anyone who has followed a few court cases knows that such an asinine concept will result in failure.
Fact is, I did abuse for a major ISP for 4 years. I also have done several years of Information Security. I've also turned over my fair share of evidence to various agencies. I know what not to do, and not keeping records is one of them.
Critical point of failure in your post. It's not your job to "prove you didn't do it". If someone makes an accusation against you or you're charged with a crime, it's THEIR job to prove you DID.
They already have their proof you did it. They have a record indicating that an IP belonging to your business downloaded the pirated material. It then becomes your responsibility, as a business, to prove a particular user did it. Very, very simple stuff, I don't know why all these people miss it.
And, IANAL either, but somehow I doubt you could be held responsible for someone else doing bad things in your car just because you loaned it to them.
This is criminal negligence. People are charged with this all the time for letting a drunk friend drive their car.
Actually, that is a far worse plan than dealing with the RIAA.
An ISP can be held responsible in situations where it does not keep records like radius logs. Since the ISP would be unable to prove they didn't do it (they being the ISP), presented with evidence that shows the illegal activity came from their network, it would almost be an automatic loss for them in court. Don't expect any compassion from the court, once the judge points out that your irrisponsibility is borderline deceptive and unethical business practice, you'll probably get either a maximum fine or harsher term.
This is much like loaning your car to a drunk stranger. You automatically become legally liable for anything he does behind the wheel due to your own irrisponsibility.
People forget that the Internet is a communications service. It's not like the phone company doesn't keep a log of all the phone numbers you dial, times dialed, duration of call, the date/time in GMT, etc.
It's not as if conservatives are evil, or bad, or whatever. It's just that their beliefs lead to undesired (from a liberal point of view) effects. For example, the reason conservatives are against homosexuals is because of religion. If you are religious, you are on the right. And if you are on the right, you likely won't support equality for homosexuals since religious texts claims that homosexuals are inferior (or some such thing).
Please replace 'religious' with 'christian'. I am technically religious, but my religion does not discriminate against people based on sexuality.
Like it or not, indescriminate bombing of civilians is a war crime as defined by the Fourth Geneval Convention.
That's not the definition of genocide. Genocide would be to try and remove their culture from the gene pool.
I also didn't say it's right in a moral sense, nor that is not against international law, I'm just saying to expect horrible things to occur in desparate times. Do you think the USA would have allowed any of it's leaders to be held accountable for what happened in WW2? Between the atomic attack on Japan and the fire bombing of Germany. It was percieved as something we had to do to win the war. You might want to see an iron-clad, no exceptions rule for nations to follow -- but it will rarely be enforced, never against the powerful nations. Not when it's a good vs evil scenario and 3/4 of the world's power agrees with good. I use those words figuratively, you can replace them with black and white, it doesn't change the meaning in this context.
A question about your logic: If all the nations with nukes pointed at us fired on the USA at 12:00PM tomorrow, should the USA not return the favor? Do you really think it would not? How about China or Russia? What do you think their policies are on retalitory measures in a desparate moment? It looks like everyone with enough money is armed with weapons designed to wipe out enormous populations, instantly.
I think it's a bit daft to assert any civilian massacre is OK because they did it to us first. By that logic, the battle would never end. Each side would continue attack in crazily justified retribution.
Actually, I am not talking about little pissant countries that have been battling for hundreds of years. Those types will continue to battle, illegally, until darwin's theory slowly sets in.
I'm a bit more concerned with the actions of the world's powers. Nations with nukes have them for more than just political reasons. It's a survival tool in the event some other nation begins bombing it's civilians or over-running it's borders.
Also, the sins of the master can in no way be deemed a crime punishable with instant death of millions.
Right, but you missed my point entirely. I am just telling you what I would expect to happen. Not what I agree with. I do not think it really matters how you feel about such things. Yes, war is terrible. There are rules. But expecting nations to comply by them in desparate times is much like expecting a fat man to slide down your chimney on christmas. It's a fun thought, but does not reflect well on reality.
Genocide == the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
What the Allies did during WW2 was not genocide. It was a devastating fire-bombing performed to ruin the moral of Germany's remaining forces. The people on the ground were of no single racial, political, or cultural group.
Fact is, Hitler's army dropped the first bombs on civillian targets in London. It was unintentional, apparently due to bad navigation, but it opened the door to Allies targetting civillian targets.
The way I see it, you have a warcrime if one side bombs the other's cities. You have a mutual agreement if you decide to retaliate with the same medicine they fed you.
So anyway, the over-simplified remark that this was genocide would likely cause someone to respond in a slightly heated manner. That's likely the reason for the mod.
Really? I had Steam open at the time I made the last post. Not a single custom map in the entire server list. Oh, that's right, I've never run Steam according to you. I'll just assume you are angry or something.
Anyway, they've been working on a "more powerful network" for about 2.5 years. How long does it take to order more bandwidth? 90-120 days max... It's marketing and you are falling for it. The "more powerful network" will only arrive when you get suckered into playing HL2 or HL3 for $9.95/mo.
Just for those who think Steam stops cheating, go ahead and keep thinking that. It cuts down some, but not enough to ever warrant giving them your CC#.. Thanks, I don't need the "easy upgrades", I already have fast sources for getting game patches.
Sadly, in the USA, if the same thing became illegal there would be an endless stream of PSAs to convince americans to turn their neighbors, children, and grandparents in for the violation. Because "it's a crime."..
I give an honest opinion, inspire some 30 messages worth of decent conversation, then get labelled as flamebait. Some people have issues.
Perhaps the mods of this site should go visit the definition of flamebait. There's not much people can do with my post except add ideas, disagree, or move on. Flamebait typically has pepperings of things that will piss people off. My post has none. It simple states a simple opinion that these particilar awards are for rather boring applications.
I would have assumed the awards would go to someone who wrote a new, free OS, productivity tool, or heavily penetrating application.
I digress, though, since apparently feeling this way somehow inspires flames on slashdot. Silly though, nobody who replied flamed.
I was used as a sound byte for a dance radio station in Atlanta back years ago..
They took a clip from me winning a contest and did 'something' to it. I won 99 (hmm, which station is this?:) bucks and wasn't really all that excited. I just wanted my money. Anyway, the version of the winnings that was played "live" was about 10 minutes old and they doctored up my voice to sound slappy happy excited. There was also added conversation that never happened..
That's when I was commuting about 70 miles a week by bike. Sure, i'll play along if you want to make comments on the super-hero helment and tight pants -- but when jokes are being made about harming cyclists by DJ's, it's a little out of hand.
If you think it's okay, then fine, let's start conspiring to beat the hell out of any DJ's we find in public places. What? No, really. It was okay when it was people on bikes.
Compare the number of people who play the STEAM version of Counter-Strike to the numbers who bought half-life or CS Retail.
It's like 35,000 retail to 3,000 STEAM, and STEAM is free for the taking.
Nobody I know plays the STEAM version very often because you are locked into a few maps.
Anyway, hardly anyone wants to contribute the costs of a server when the game company doesn't allow you to do anything except for an out-of-the-box configuration.
If so, your treatment will differ quite a bit from some Joe who bought his laptop on his own.
My experience with Dell through work was completely different than with my personal equipment. Our helpdesk was able to get laptops replaced with no charge, even if they had obvious signs of abuse (droppage, etc).
With my personal laptop, I was unable to have a similar issue corrected as the author, except the hinges that hold the screen on were badly constructed and managed to come apart after 6 months of use.
My final solution was to swap the hinges from my work laptop onto the personal one, then getting Dell to fix my work system for free.
Good thing the office issued Dell Latitudes, otherwise it would have been $89..:)
Since when is a VC considered a geek? It seems to go against a true love for whatever you are investing in. Since the VC are the first to pump and dump, meanwhile leaving the tech firm they invested in holding the bag. Much of the time this stifles technology, as opposed to helping.
I've met a few VC's over the years and would put them in a completely different kind of boat than anyone who cares about anything beyond lining the wallet, hence the term 'venture capitalist'...
Several years ago, I could not find my kitten after getting in from work. I looked all over the apartment and she was nowhere to be seen. I figured she had found some new hiding place, and relaxed my efforts.
Then I plopped down in front of my computer and hit the web. After a few minutes of clicking away on the keyboard, I began to hear a faint little distress meow. It was coming from my tower! The kitten had climbed into an empty 5.25" bay and slid herself down to the bottom of the case. I took the side door off and retrieved her. She was no less for wear and had managed to not break anything while inside. I have absolutely no idea how long she was in there, too. It was a minimum of 30 minutes.
I ended up putting a couple of strips of silver duct tape over the front of my tower to cover the open bay.
Slashdot Mirror
Except they WON'T have the material. No material, no crime.
Uh, you don't need that in civil court. That's where you lose money over negligence. Trust me, you'll lose that battle if you don't keep logs. Especially when the plantiff's attorney shows documents from every other ISP in the country is retaining the same type of logs for 2+ years and yours is 30 days.
And, this is excusing the fact that they're suing UPLOADERS who are offering the files, not DOWNLOADERS
Oh you aren't here to discuss things. You are here to EMPHASIZE any sort of MISTAKE someone makes while typing 80 wpm. Let go, young one.
who are taking them even though stupid news outlets (news outlet: a group of people who couldn't find their own asses with both hands and a flashlight, but have lots of out-of-context statistics that 'prove' otherwise) like Yahoo! keep saying "Suits Against Music Downloaders".
Blah blah blah flashlight, blah blah blah Yahoo! we all know the media is an uninformed tool. No point even bringing that up.
Along with suing Novell - it was announced today that SCO has been lobbying Congress about the horrifying ways that Linux and the rest of open source software saves users money, allows others to use the software anyway they see fit and 'gasp' causes SCO to not make as much money as they would like.
And if Congress even thinks about complying with SCO's requests, I will drop my American citizenship like a brick.
I wish I could feel confident that these guys will be laughed out of the building, but they have some $ that the Congressmen are probably interested in.
The phone company keeps logs so they can BILL you or update services when they get overloaded. (There might be a law for them though...) ISPs don't have a law and may not be billing for time "unlimited" dial-up, so they can delete them if they want.
Negative. Let's make up a situation:
Haxx0rX has a dial-up account with 'unlimited' access. He uses this account to down the store backend to a large shopping website. The admin of this site contacts the feds after locating the originating IP of the attack. He hands the information over to the feds. The fed contacts the abuse department of Haxx0rX's ISP. The ISP responds "Oh, I am sorry, we have already deleted those logs. But, yep, that is one of our IPs. So sorry!". The company who was hacked no longer has any legal recourse against the hacker because you deleted the logs in an unreasonably short amount of time (30 days?! When I did abuse, we held on to everything for a minimum of 2 years to avoid these situations). The only option left is to file a suit against the ISP for whatever damages you incured. This is simple negligence. The ISP will quickly lose the case due to their log deleting policy, and the hacker is never found.
The parent poster is projecting way more responsibility on the ISP than there actually is. A gas station is expected to control if a stolen car gets fueled up or that the gas isn't used later to burn kittens or something, they are just expected to safely sell gas to anyone who wants it.
That doesn't fit anywhere in this thread. Quit trolling.
This is correct, but that is only if the ISP is an ethical business.
The flawed logic I am trying to dis-spell is the "I could start an ISP, then my friends and I can hack sites all day long, not keep logs, and be immune from any prosecution." idea.
Anyone who has followed a few court cases knows that such an asinine concept will result in failure.
Fact is, I did abuse for a major ISP for 4 years. I also have done several years of Information Security. I've also turned over my fair share of evidence to various agencies. I know what not to do, and not keeping records is one of them.
Critical point of failure in your post. It's not your job to "prove you didn't do it". If someone makes an accusation against you or you're charged with a crime, it's THEIR job to prove you DID.
They already have their proof you did it. They have a record indicating that an IP belonging to your business downloaded the pirated material. It then becomes your responsibility, as a business, to prove a particular user did it. Very, very simple stuff, I don't know why all these people miss it.
And, IANAL either, but somehow I doubt you could be held responsible for someone else doing bad things in your car just because you loaned it to them.
This is criminal negligence. People are charged with this all the time for letting a drunk friend drive their car.
Actually, that is a far worse plan than dealing with the RIAA.
An ISP can be held responsible in situations where it does not keep records like radius logs. Since the ISP would be unable to prove they didn't do it (they being the ISP), presented with evidence that shows the illegal activity came from their network, it would almost be an automatic loss for them in court. Don't expect any compassion from the court, once the judge points out that your irrisponsibility is borderline deceptive and unethical business practice, you'll probably get either a maximum fine or harsher term.
This is much like loaning your car to a drunk stranger. You automatically become legally liable for anything he does behind the wheel due to your own irrisponsibility.
People forget that the Internet is a communications service. It's not like the phone company doesn't keep a log of all the phone numbers you dial, times dialed, duration of call, the date/time in GMT, etc.
It's your own fault for using 'xxxxxxxx' as your password.
It's not as if conservatives are evil, or bad, or whatever. It's just that their beliefs lead to undesired (from a liberal point of view) effects. For example, the reason conservatives are against homosexuals is because of religion. If you are religious, you are on the right. And if you are on the right, you likely won't support equality for homosexuals since religious texts claims that homosexuals are inferior (or some such thing).
Please replace 'religious' with 'christian'. I am technically religious, but my religion does not discriminate against people based on sexuality.
Like it or not, indescriminate bombing of civilians is a war crime as defined by the Fourth Geneval Convention.
That's not the definition of genocide. Genocide would be to try and remove their culture from the gene pool.
I also didn't say it's right in a moral sense, nor that is not against international law, I'm just saying to expect horrible things to occur in desparate times. Do you think the USA would have allowed any of it's leaders to be held accountable for what happened in WW2? Between the atomic attack on Japan and the fire bombing of Germany. It was percieved as something we had to do to win the war. You might want to see an iron-clad, no exceptions rule for nations to follow -- but it will rarely be enforced, never against the powerful nations. Not when it's a good vs evil scenario and 3/4 of the world's power agrees with good. I use those words figuratively, you can replace them with black and white, it doesn't change the meaning in this context.
A question about your logic: If all the nations with nukes pointed at us fired on the USA at 12:00PM tomorrow, should the USA not return the favor? Do you really think it would not? How about China or Russia? What do you think their policies are on retalitory measures in a desparate moment? It looks like everyone with enough money is armed with weapons designed to wipe out enormous populations, instantly.
I think it's a bit daft to assert any civilian massacre is OK because they did it to us first. By that logic, the battle would never end. Each side would continue attack in crazily justified retribution.
Actually, I am not talking about little pissant countries that have been battling for hundreds of years. Those types will continue to battle, illegally, until darwin's theory slowly sets in.
I'm a bit more concerned with the actions of the world's powers. Nations with nukes have them for more than just political reasons. It's a survival tool in the event some other nation begins bombing it's civilians or over-running it's borders.
Also, the sins of the master can in no way be deemed a crime punishable with instant death of millions.
Right, but you missed my point entirely. I am just telling you what I would expect to happen. Not what I agree with. I do not think it really matters how you feel about such things. Yes, war is terrible. There are rules. But expecting nations to comply by them in desparate times is much like expecting a fat man to slide down your chimney on christmas. It's a fun thought, but does not reflect well on reality.
My personal feelings? War should not exist.
Yeah, I was trolling. I've not really launched Steam since using a beta copy a while back.
I do have one question: Can you still launch the Steam version of CS from gamespy or are you stuck using the Steam pinger?
I'll bite your bait..
Genocide == the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group
What the Allies did during WW2 was not genocide. It was a devastating fire-bombing performed to ruin the moral of Germany's remaining forces. The people on the ground were of no single racial, political, or cultural group.
Fact is, Hitler's army dropped the first bombs on civillian targets in London. It was unintentional, apparently due to bad navigation, but it opened the door to Allies targetting civillian targets.
The way I see it, you have a warcrime if one side bombs the other's cities. You have a mutual agreement if you decide to retaliate with the same medicine they fed you.
So anyway, the over-simplified remark that this was genocide would likely cause someone to respond in a slightly heated manner. That's likely the reason for the mod.
Really? I had Steam open at the time I made the last post. Not a single custom map in the entire server list. Oh, that's right, I've never run Steam according to you. I'll just assume you are angry or something.
Anyway, they've been working on a "more powerful network" for about 2.5 years. How long does it take to order more bandwidth? 90-120 days max... It's marketing and you are falling for it. The "more powerful network" will only arrive when you get suckered into playing HL2 or HL3 for $9.95/mo.
Just for those who think Steam stops cheating, go ahead and keep thinking that. It cuts down some, but not enough to ever warrant giving them your CC#.. Thanks, I don't need the "easy upgrades", I already have fast sources for getting game patches.
Sadly, in the USA, if the same thing became illegal there would be an endless stream of PSAs to convince americans to turn their neighbors, children, and grandparents in for the violation. Because "it's a crime."..
I give an honest opinion, inspire some 30 messages worth of decent conversation, then get labelled as flamebait. Some people have issues.
Perhaps the mods of this site should go visit the definition of flamebait. There's not much people can do with my post except add ideas, disagree, or move on. Flamebait typically has pepperings of things that will piss people off. My post has none. It simple states a simple opinion that these particilar awards are for rather boring applications.
I would have assumed the awards would go to someone who wrote a new, free OS, productivity tool, or heavily penetrating application.
I digress, though, since apparently feeling this way somehow inspires flames on slashdot. Silly though, nobody who replied flamed.
I was used as a sound byte for a dance radio station in Atlanta back years ago..
:) bucks and wasn't really all that excited. I just wanted my money. Anyway, the version of the winnings that was played "live" was about 10 minutes old and they doctored up my voice to sound slappy happy excited. There was also added conversation that never happened..
They took a clip from me winning a contest and did 'something' to it. I won 99 (hmm, which station is this?
They are a Clear Channel station now.
I recall the cyclist remarks at their peak.
That's when I was commuting about 70 miles a week by bike. Sure, i'll play along if you want to make comments on the super-hero helment and tight pants -- but when jokes are being made about harming cyclists by DJ's, it's a little out of hand.
If you think it's okay, then fine, let's start conspiring to beat the hell out of any DJ's we find in public places. What? No, really. It was okay when it was people on bikes.
There has to be bigger, better things going on out there..
Compare the number of people who play the STEAM version of Counter-Strike to the numbers who bought half-life or CS Retail.
It's like 35,000 retail to 3,000 STEAM, and STEAM is free for the taking.
Nobody I know plays the STEAM version very often because you are locked into a few maps.
Anyway, hardly anyone wants to contribute the costs of a server when the game company doesn't allow you to do anything except for an out-of-the-box configuration.
Okay, so an AC with a pissy attitude and acting of a zealot deserves a response why?
It was meant as humor. n00b.
Yeah, let's keep these FDA boys in mind the next time you hear about teenagers dying from taking some weight loss pills.
Someone should really do something about the 10 varieties of herbal remedy and speed next to the cash register at every gas station in the country.
It's been my impression that the BSD communit{y,ies}, in general, understand Linux far better than the Linux communit{y,ies} understand Linux.
I have a few theories on why that is, but that's not really relevant. Besides, offering such insight will only result in negative karma.
I was about to post the same thing, but amake saved me from some typing.
I always considered WMA to be proprietary.
Were you issued the laptop from your employer?
:)
If so, your treatment will differ quite a bit from some Joe who bought his laptop on his own.
My experience with Dell through work was completely different than with my personal equipment. Our helpdesk was able to get laptops replaced with no charge, even if they had obvious signs of abuse (droppage, etc).
With my personal laptop, I was unable to have a similar issue corrected as the author, except the hinges that hold the screen on were badly constructed and managed to come apart after 6 months of use.
My final solution was to swap the hinges from my work laptop onto the personal one, then getting Dell to fix my work system for free.
Good thing the office issued Dell Latitudes, otherwise it would have been $89..
Since when is a VC considered a geek? It seems to go against a true love for whatever you are investing in. Since the VC are the first to pump and dump, meanwhile leaving the tech firm they invested in holding the bag. Much of the time this stifles technology, as opposed to helping.
I've met a few VC's over the years and would put them in a completely different kind of boat than anyone who cares about anything beyond lining the wallet, hence the term 'venture capitalist'...
Several years ago, I could not find my kitten after getting in from work. I looked all over the apartment and she was nowhere to be seen. I figured she had found some new hiding place, and relaxed my efforts.
Then I plopped down in front of my computer and hit the web. After a few minutes of clicking away on the keyboard, I began to hear a faint little distress meow. It was coming from my tower! The kitten had climbed into an empty 5.25" bay and slid herself down to the bottom of the case. I took the side door off and retrieved her. She was no less for wear and had managed to not break anything while inside. I have absolutely no idea how long she was in there, too. It was a minimum of 30 minutes.
I ended up putting a couple of strips of silver duct tape over the front of my tower to cover the open bay.