Slashdot Mirror
WW2 Aerial Photographs Go Online
aquarium writes "The Guardian Unlimited reports that unique aerial photographs of some of the key events of the Second World War are to be made available for the first time over the internet. The photographs are being made available through a website created by The Aerial Reconnaissance Archives (TARA) at Keele University - an official place of deposit for the National Archives at Kew, West London. The entire archive of more than five million aerial reconnaissance photographs, shot by the RAF over Western Europe during the conflict, is going online starting Monday. They include American troops landing on the Normandy beaches on D-Day, the seizure of the Pegasus bridge by British paratroops, the aftermath of the first 1,000 bomber raid on Cologne, and the German battleship Bismarck as the Royal Navy hunted her down. The multiple photographs taken by the high resolution cameras meant they were able to create 3-D images through an instrument called a "stereoscope". The technique was used to construct a detailed picture of the Normandy terrain ahead of the D-Day landings."
Aerial photographs of their servers being "slashbombed" and crashing in flames.
It is a device that is a more complex version of a 'View Master' toy. Take two images from different angles. Feed one image to the right eye and the other to the left. Performs amazingly well.
Yep, I never spell check.
More incorrect spellings can be found he
Wow! that was fast =)
It was already knocked down even when it was in the Mysterious Future.
They didn't lose his aerial photos...
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
Believe it or not, Roald Dahl, the slightly scary looking and GREAT writer of childrens novels was awarded the international aerial photography award during the Second World War for taking highly detailed shots of the Gaza Strip, Crete Gardens and perhaps most famously, the Great Pyramids... he later detailed these flights in his biography
I have a remarkable print upon my wall of these black and white photos, clear, amazing for the time and look almost isometric, perfect angle shots
Not bad for a man who wrote about a "cunning" fox
Kudos
But seriously, the archive sounds like a great idea. There should be more historical material of this sort accessible online.
Will they also have pictures of the devastated dresden after they bombed the city center crowded with hundreds of thousands civilian refugees and no military targets in sight?
to all the servers who were slashdotted in service to the UK. Like this one.
You are not the customer.
...more people understand what a tremndously heroic thing all those soldiers did can only be a good thing.
For those of you who have never seen "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers", I recommend them. Remember, freedom comes at a price, and we should all be very thankful to all those who have paid it, and one way is by learning about, and appreciating the sacrifices made. As this archive will only further add to our accuracy or the historical events, this can only be a Good Thing.
libertarianswag.com
Unbelievable that someone with so much content can't put up the bandwidth to support it. Someone goofed big time.
What in the world did they expect?
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Well the TARA archive is already slashdotted...
But I'm most interested in getting answers to these questions --
-- What's the license/use/citation policy? e.g. Can I make prints?
-- Can I buy/license a copy of the entire archive? (Perhaps loaded onto one of these).
Next time don't use a proportional font. I had to paste it into an editor to see the swastika.
I think the server hosting the pictures was from Second World War too...
Cheers,
RoadkillBunny
this was announced like a week ago, too fucking slow.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Have you no respect for those that died for your freedoms in the 2nd world war - or are you just brutally retarded?
Great, now we've Slashdotted the Second World War. Do you have any idea what we might have done to history? Doesn't anyone watch quality movies like Timeline anymore?
Sailing over the event horizon
We all know that these pictures were the real purpose behind all those World War II bombing missions.
This sig is only here so people stop skipping the last lines of my posts.
Just so everyone knows, the website: (http://www.evidenceincamera.co.uk/) has not been slashdotted, it isn't online yet, I went there about 3 days ago and it was the exact same.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
Look up "genocide", asshat.
I expect the war games people will have a field day with all this stuff.
Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
and didn't get it
STFU. This isn't funny, in the slightest, you have to be a real sick puppy to try laugh about people giving their lives for you, yes, YOU, so simply shut up if you have nothing good to say.
Any joke made should be modded down.
--- any post that takes longer than 20 seconds to write, isn't worth writing
What was meant by high resolution cameras, back in the 40s?
Maybe digital camera technology was farther advanced than I'd thought.
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
I submitted this also, but I guess he got his in first. He probably found it on those forums with the Star Wars Car like I did. Haha, no matter. I wonder if they will be released in full resolution under GPL or something similar, or if they will just be for viewing purposes. Either way, should be an interesting site none the less.
- Nick Busey
www.pedalbmx.com
www.nickbusey.com
For those of you who didn't read the article, it says the archive will be opened on Monday. That's tomorrow. Don't get your knickers in a twist, just come back tomorrow and see it.
Get a sense of humour, you uptight piece of garbage. The world doesn't need another wound-up, chai-sipping tool like yourself.
Moron.
This would be truly amazing (especially for WW2 history buffs) since the only images ever seen of the conflict from non-participants have always been from a first-person cameraman (possibly staged) perspective (or fighter/bomber cams).
I want to see the Russian move into Berlin from above.
What will be the resolution of these photos?
I wonder if the data will be freely available to game companies before the whole "Ultraviolent D-Day FPS" fad finally goes away.
These pics could be useful for people who want to check for unexploded bombs. If you see a line of craters with a gap, the gap is likely as not the location where one fell into the earth and didn't go off. So if they include the results of bombing runs, it could be useful.
I had a friend who did this, inspecting WW2 photos for signs of unexploded bombs for property companies.
A few months ago i had my senior pictures taken by this little old guy with a terrible tupee, but while he was setting up his equiptment he was telling me about how after high school(he graduated from the same school as me) he joined the navy as an ariel photographer for the pacific campaign. I guess he flew missions for mapping iwo jima and a few other of the key islands. It was interesting to hear about to say the least, to bad this is /.d, but form the other posts i assume its all european photos.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
It's called "slashdotted for sure" ...
I wasn't aware that they did aerial photography using ASCII during WWII.
submit all your new up and coming sites to slashdot and see how long it takes to bring them down again
www.necroticobsession.com
See, Dresden was not a stategic military target, but the U.S. decided to bomb our city anyway in order to destroy the morale of the general civilian population. In other words, the U.S. engaged in terrorism because terrorism works.
U.S. hypocrisy won't allow the bombing of my city or Japan's to be called terrorism however. Officially it's only terrorism when a powerless group does it.
> "Okay, it's just a joke, we already settled it yesterday, the French fought valiantly in WWII"
> "Will they also have pictures of the devastated dresden after they bombed the city center crowded with hundreds of thousands civilian refugees and no military targets in sight?"
> "Have you no respect for those that died for your freedoms in the 2nd world war - or are you just brutally retarded?"
> "STFU. This isn't funny, in the slightest, you have to be a real sick puppy to try laugh about people giving their lives for you, yes, YOU, so simply shut up if you have nothing good to say."
60+ years on WWII is still a very emotive subject. Europe is still living in its effects - "don't talk about the war" still isn't that much a joke. There are still right-wing extremists, ultra-nationalists, and, increasingly, anti-Semites in Europe. The USA continues to be a strong ally but large shadow over Europe. The E.U. by all accounts could fall apart tommorrow. (And if not, it may just become another neo-colonist imperialist club) So is it any wonder WWII doesn't seem something far away for us who have never lived through it, or in many cases, our parents either?
B.T.W. I'm a newbie here, my apologies if I haven't followed the prescribed method of quoting.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Navy Ship Photos
This is a nice commercial site for navy ship photos from a site made by a former employer of mine. You have to search to find a ship, but there's some nice pictures there. It's owned by a long-time professional navy ship photographer living in Florida, who is a pretty cool guy.
Ryan Fenton
Never has so much bandwidth been sought by so many, from so few.
He who fights with Monkeys must take it upon himself not to become a Monkey.
you're killing the "righteous guilt" trip. "Historical context"? thats doesn't matter, whats important is pissing off the old folks and finding some bubble headed chick who'll be impressed by your sensitivity and daring in expressing an "unpopular" opinion you read about on some Tides Foundation funded website.
Tell it to the eastern europeans.
5,000,000 images at a (conservative estimate) ~800kb apiece = ~3,800GB wow!
Your are forgetting a whole lot of soldiers(UN) whom daily risk their lives in several wars around the globe, of which I was one, there certainly are a lot of people who "know" war younger than 50.
Anyone who "knows" war will do a lot to prevent it;
there is no glory, wrong or wright in war, only death(as about 500+USpeople found out in Iraq).
From the section asking if the bombing was justified:
One popular charge against the bombing is that the city was not a military target. However, other evidence suggests otherwise; The city contained the Zeiss-Ikon optical factory and the Siemens glass factory (both of which were entirely devoted to manufacturing military gunsights). The immediate suburbs contained factories building components of radars and electronics, and fuses for anti-aircraft shells. Other factories produced gas masks, engines for Junkers aircraft and cockpit parts for Messerschmitt fighters. After the attack, Germany was to claim that Dresden's industry was only making civil goods, a notion which much of the world accepted, and still accepts, as true.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As a former student of the University of Keele, I am shocked and stunned that the place is actually home to something interesting! For those who've never been, Keele is a village on top of a hill with a University which was built on the land of an old RAF site, hence the link with Kew in this case I would guess. It's not exactly the centre of the universe. Other features of note include a nearby motorway services and the fact that it was where 'A very peculiar practice' http://www.phill.co.uk/comedy/practice/ was filmed (starring Peter Davison, later of Dr Who fame).
"He started it" carries a lot of weight when Western civilization is at stake.
If the Germans had not placed Hitler in power, if the Germans had not sustained him in power, if Hitler had not plunged Europe into a war of conquest and genocide, then not a single Allied bomb would have ever fallen on German territory.
To use another cliche, you reap what you sow.
Hitler and the other fascists, including those ruling Japan, had to be stopped, at any cost. The cost of defeat was unthinkable.
Trying to take the moral high ground in war is pointless. Death is death, regardless of motive. But, that is no reason to avoid fighting to win.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
We call this "pre-slashbombing" because hey --- none of us really read the articles and know that the server isn't really online! I'm sure the people over in the UK right now are just laughing their asses off looking at all the requests to the server and saying "Americans..."
One thing, it just moves me to look at that BBC picture of Auswitz with the smoke coming up and knowing what the smoke stack represents. Unbelievable. It just gives me a new respect for what those people really went through, and thanking my lucky stars I was born now and not then.
And then only the first 15 minutes which are the most true-to-life picture of war I've ever seen on the big screen. From there it becomes pathetic and nurturing. Utter crap if you ask me. I have bought the DVD though, solely for the first 15 minutes of it.
While both the BBC and Slashdot articles refer to stereoscopic images taken during WWII, I have seen no mention that these images would actually be posted to the Net.
Are they going to post all the images or just a few flat 2D images?
Will we be able to access both stereoscopic photographs in order to make our own 3D OpenGL or VRML topographs?
Finally, what kind of resolution will we get with the images? Will it be as good as the originals? Or just those small press images as seen in the BBC article?
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
is the website that has pictures of their crashed and burning web server?
And I would like to remind you of the French fleet.
"They committed senseless crimes, so we responded the same way" - this is pretty lousy argument if you think about it for a second.
3.243F6A8885A308D313
Something like "WW2 Aerial Photographs Go Offline Due to Slashdot".
Bombing civilian facility whatever the reson is wrong, and "ending the war quicker" is a terribly wrong one. Soldier are paid/engaged to kill each other in their nation's name. Killing civilian are wrong on so many side. Imagine a bit like a cops killing criminal's family to make thenm surrender quicker (although the comparison is quite not right as cop are paid to enforce law, not to be killed or kill others but you get the drift here). Gas Chamber were a terrible Crime. But so was firing V1 & V2 and so was atomic bombardement or conventionnal city bomb-razing. The only difference in those crime is that the victorious side deicided it was justified to kill so many civilian to force a surrender (and by the way this proved false as with or without Dresden bombardement , war ended only with berlin being invaded by both army and Hitler suiciding. One can argue that Dresden bombardement was a gratuitious crime here).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Evidence at last that the Americans didn't win the war in Europe single handedly.
That's not unusual. Many countries with religious foundings often consider an attack on the State to be an attack on the religion. Israel is a Jewish state so a criticism of its policies may well be viewed as an attack on judaism by many citizens who view israel and judaism to be the same thing.
Similarly, countries with a strictly muslim government often view an attack on their government as an attack on islam. In the middle east, religion is government and government is religion - an attack on either will affect the other just as much.
This is an unusual concept in the west where religion and government separate themselves more or less, so you have to view it with some cultural and historical context.
-
I'm an American (family arrived well before the Declaration of Indenpendence even), but my fellow Americans here who speak so boldly about German atrocities against England, or make comments like "war is hell" with regard to American strikes against places like Dresden, are sadly lacking a good understanding of history. I can't blame them though, as American history texts have a very different view of the war than those found in Europe.
Having studied in Germany for a while, I can assure my fellow countrymen that you have no idea just how appalling it is what we did to Germany.
Yes, what the Germans did to London was very, very bad. Inexcusable. But, they really just targetted London. The RAF was also quite able to defend the country.
By the time the allies started bombing Germany, the Luftwaffe was already a wreck, completely unable to function. England suffered in London, but Germany suffered in Frankfurt, Muenchen, Berlin, Hamburg, and so on. Basically, every major city in Germany was levelled. Even many minor cities that just happened to be in the flight path of American bombers. A prime example of this is Muenster, where I studied. The only thing there is a nice university and a bunch of college kids, but it is the last/first city you come to on the border if you are flying from England. It was levelled just because it was a convenient place to drop bombs. As I mention above, by the time most of these bombing raids were occuring against Germany, the war was lost for them anyway, making the raids purely gratuitous.
To this day, if you are doing any kind of construction in Germany, you have to hire a crew to come out and look for old unexploded bombs. Most Americans really don't understand that Dresden (as just one example of atrocity) was completely non-military. Some sources even indicate that many of the refugees probably weren't even Germans, but rather eastern europeans who were fleeing the Russians coming from the east.
Then there is that matter of the 50 years of occupation after the war by the Russians that was allowed, even encouraged by the allies. Even though Germany is a united country now, its borders were shrunk significantly by the Russians - where Poland is today used to be a major German state, and historically, Poland was farther to the east. The allies let all this happen, because they wanted to turn Germany into a minor agricultural state.
Much of the intrigue of the war was the training ground for later US foreign policy "techniques" in places around the world. We like to keep countries down in remarkable ways. In fact, it is quite appalling to watch what America is doing in Iraq right now, as it is basically the same kind of model we tried in Japan and Germany. Germans today hate our guts (as they should), and it is likely we will fail with Iraq due to the same mistakes we have perpetually made elsewhere. Unfortunately, we are poor students of history.
I am constantly amazed by even my educated American friends who still feel that Germans "aren't sorry enough for the war." This is as silly as calling the French "surrender monekys." Remarks like these just make it that much clearer how little of European history and European affairs Americans understand. What's perhaps even more appaling, is that even after being involved in two european wars, and claiming to be allied with european powers since that time, Americans (especially our governemnt)*still* have no concept of these things.
At 7.30pm this second wave of planes arrived and the first of 500 tons of high explosives began to shake the city centre. Incendiaries, both exploding and non-exploding, continued to fall amid the bombs as a continuous stream of droning bombers passed over the city. Some were aimed at industrial targets around the city but many others concentrated on bombing the centre of the city ... to create a firestorm.
The populace hid themselves in cellars, crypts and air raid shelters as the heart of the city was ripped apart above them. Others stayed in their homes, thousands of which were destroyed or damaged. The bombing continued, with the addition of oil and landmines.
The landmines were particularly notorious. They took form of a large metal box suspended by a parachute which would slowly and silently fall and explode above ground level with a deafening roar totally flattening anything that lay under it. The church of St Nicholas in Radford was destroyed by one of these landmines leaving dead and injured in the crypt and only one course of stones standing.
Just because the Germans were not quite as adapt at killing cilvilians does not mean they were not targeting them - you are implying the sort of smart-targeting in existance today but there was nothing of the sort back then.
I am not sayng the the firebombing was a good idea, only that there was some military presence there (as there was in most any city of size in Germany) and this confuses the issue quite a bit more than your "revisionist history" comment would lead one to believe.
I am half German myself and feel quite strongly that despite things like the Dresden firebombing, Germany was doing much worse things overall. Although not that many were killed in the Blitz, you forget that Hitler was fighting multiple countries and using similar civilian demoralizing tactitcs on everyone. They were just spread around more.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
this should be MODDED UP. It's interesting and a valid point of view... NOT Flamebait!
If the fuck head Bush had just left those idiots alone we wouldn't have 500+ dead either.
Wow a fellow American who can read and understand the ANY information without Fox News ( fair and unbiased !) telling them what to think about it . SO please mod this parent UP ! Support literacy and knowledge !
Damn! That is awesome, my new home page! Thank you so much...I was concerned that we were not getting our monies worth out of the Apache. That was most excellent!
i was there three days ago and there was a nice "shop" button on the menu,the site was dead then as the whole worlds media has been pluggin this all week.
UK isn't like USA where all goverment data is free, (even though it was our taxes that payed for the data and in this case people died grrr)
so i expect we (and everyone else) will have to pay to view them just like we did with the 1800 national census, we can't even get friggin weather data without paying for it, so ironicly we (us cheapo web developers) have to get it from the USA
FFM
funny how the truth hurts egh ?
read a history lesson and you might realise the parent is talking sense, but then you probably had bowling class that day
If you're interested in stereoscopes, you'll probably like this:
motion stereoscope art.
It's pretty cool stuff. I vaguely remember Naimark shooting a bunch of stereoscopic 16mm of a Survival Research Labs show in San Francisco, but I never saw the resulting footage.
This Like That - fun with words!
Yeah I'm replying to my own post. :)
I just noticed that they are British images.
Well substitute 'US' for 'UK'.
I understand Tony Blair is taking quite a pounding over this as well
Kelly's Heroes joke.
your a douche bag
The only reason it's no so widely known is that the UK and USA classified the technology, and sold captured Enigma and derivative machines to other foreign governments.
Remember - the USA may be a world power, but the still follow in the footsteps of the United Kingdom.
Given the requirement that all Hollywood blockbusters either; a) have to have a simple plot; or b) explain it as things go along; it's no surprise that the more complicated (more than one player) or challenging (America is not always right) points get edited out to ensure the movies sale-ability.
Give them a break !
How about dynamically generated content in message postings that indicates if the target URL is responding ?
A lightly armed, poorly outfitted airborn division (+ some other units) held out against armored corps dispite being cut off. There is some debate as to whether this prevented German victory in the Battle of the Bulge (it may have been completely unwinnable at all). There is no question at the time capturing Bastogne was the highest priority for the Germans once the resistance coalesced. And they couldn't take it.
Truth is, whenever they met the Germans under reasonably even odds, they won.
sigh... I'm so sick of this. After hearing Ariel Sharon on BBC24 this evening make comments about anti-semitism in Europe (apparently some art exhibition in Sweden has a tasteless piece on a suicide bomber), after reading a 3rd party opinion piece in Time magazine a while ago about rising "anti-semitism" in Europe, I'd like to state: Being critical of Israeli foreign policy is not anti-semitism. (It's criticism of foreign policy - nothing religious in that.).
The attempted labelling of such criticism as anti-semitism is cheap, and forever more has devalued that label. Further, are the Israeli air force officers who criticised the current policies anti-semites too?
I use Friend/Foe + mod-point modifiers as a karma/reputation system.
Sorry, but we were outgunned at Midway. It was superior intelligence that won the day there.
-Jeff
Trying to take the moral high ground in war is pointless. Death is death, regardless of motive. But, that is no reason to avoid fighting to win.
Why then, do we have war crimes? Geneva convention on POWs? Treatment of civilians? Bans on bioweapons, chemical weapons, weapons designed to maim rather than kill? There is always a moral side to war, and to the way you wage war.
It might have been a valid response if the Allies were losing. Last, desperate attempts where the only thing that matters is victory, more important than the rules of war. But it was not. No matter what the Germans had done, they were losing badly.
While the laws that govern war and peace are different, someone committing a crime against you doesn't give you the right to do the same to them. If I got beat up once, it doesn't make it right to beat up that guy later. If the Axis bombed my civilians, it doesn't make it right to bomb their civilians later.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You mention "allied bombers" then go on to talk about American planes. As far as I know, half of all bombing was done by the British and I believe most of the "firebombing". Yes it was vengeful. Yes it went over the top.
But when you talk about what we did to the Germans and Japanese, you must remember that they started a war of world domination and managed to slaughter millions of people and we would've been next. In the long run, we replaced murderous, racist, genocidal dictaterships with democracies.
Indeed what more can be said - it was a war with all of Europe going to the winning side, one side of which was not going to stop at Europe.
If wars were easy they would be called "fantasy".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The real question is did it do anything to stop Hitler and would he have won without the bombings. That's the problem with war, too difficult to tell what the outcome of choices like that will be - even after they happen.
If without the firebombing Hitler would have won, then absolutely it was worth it - if only to see the spread of the gas chambers stopped. Who's to say they would have stopped with the Jewish if allowed to spread across the continent?
From our safe position in history it's all to easy to criticize, but at the time it probably seemed necessary to try all tactics no matter how dirty.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I watched an article on this on the news last night, and they indeed showed aerial pictures of the Dresden firebombing, as well as D-Day, Pegasus Bridge and many other photos.
;) Seems I was right....
I commented then to my wife that if Slashdot posted it, no one would see it until next week
Incidentally it was interesting to see the Pegasus Bridge photo as I had not too recently played that level in Call of Duty!
Visceral Psyche Films
This must reassuring to all those who witnessed it. Not a war, just a minor conflict.
I can't believe this didn't get modded "flamebait"..I guess that tells us a bit about the mods' view of the USA, huh?
As I saw on a Channel 4 (UK) Docu last night, the US also used firebombing techniques against Japan.
100,000 were killed in one raid on Tokyo.
See Bombing of Tokyo in World War II.
I am very upset at the tone this discussion took on! WWII was hell, there is no other way to put it. We have never seen anything on that scale, encompassing so much of the world, and hopefully we will never see it again. A lot of you seem to border on defending Hitler, and thats just sad. Many of you seem a little to comfortable with your lives, the people who fought in WWII are heros. Tom Brokaw, and the like were exactly right when they call them "the greatest generation"
If you can't find what you want once they finally decide to put the site up, don't give up, try again later ...
cause...
Tara is also planning to release the 2.5 million Luftwaffe photos they have; at some later(unspecified) date. These are photos that had been seized by the Allies at the end of the war.
You heard it first here.
No. You can't look at my Sig; it's mine, and I'm not showing you.
Acorrding to the archivist interviewed by the AP (unnamed, but may have been Allan Williams whom is quoted later) they are all of Western Europe.
[ http://www.odt.co.nz/ , follow "WorldNews" link]
But they do also mention another 2.5million Luftwaffe photos they will post later that were seized at the end of the war.
No. You can't look at my Sig; it's mine, and I'm not showing you.
Freedom always has a cost. It is never free. It is usually paid for in the blood of the dead on both sides. If you start a war, you better be certain you can finish it.
In fact, it was the Polish intelligence service that cracked the way the Enigma worked and devised a system to break the code. They also got the Enigma examples that were worked on. The brits only took the info and used it with some refinements.
:)
I don't mean to belittle the British contribution, as the refinements were significant. But not mentioning Poland while saying the Brits did it is just like saying that the Americans did it
I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it
http://www.europractica-dresden.de/n25.jpgp x1.jpg
http://www.ericandjoan.com/worldtrip/germany/ger2
My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
There are images of targets pre and post bombing, if that's what you'd like, from the campaign itself, at the 2003 Public Eye archive.
Bombing nowadays is way more accurate than it was in WWII. It's worth noting that there were lots of problems with Iraq's infrastructure pre-invasion. (Due to the previous government's response to sanctions, to wit: spend the money on new weaponry, bigger palace complexes, suicide bombers in Israel, and our bank accounts in other countries.)
Do they have pictures of the atrocities committed at Dresden? Or have these mysteriously and conveniently been 'misplaced'.
Fact is the average suicide bombing in Israel kills more legitimate targets relative to innocent victims than the average allied bombing in WWII did.
Look at that one the other day, IDF soldiers made up 100% of the fatalities. Or look at those bus rammings by IJ, both those buses were full of soldiers.
One just has tp peruse the Israeli Ministry of foreign Affairs website to see that the Western allies were a lot more indiscriminate than Hamas, IJ or the AAM:-
Megiddo junction, 5-6-2, 13 out of 17 dead are soldiers
Meron junction, 4-8-2, 3 out of 9 dead were soldiers
Karkur junction, 21-10-2, 8 out 14 dead are soldiers
Tzrifin roadstop, 9-9-3, all 9 dead were soldiers
Of course there were bombings where only 1 or 2 of the fatalities were legimate targets, like this one, where one 1 (out of the 10 dead) was a legitmate target but even so, odds on Britain's 'thousand bomber' raids over Germany & the US incendary & nuclear raids on Japan, still had a much larger collateral damage to legitimate target rate (& that's not even taking into account the high rate of reservists in Israel)
Consult a freaking dictionary already!
Single truest thing on this thread. "Some could have safely avoided any participation by proclaiming 'it's not my business'. But they didn't."