1. Package Management bad? You mean clicking on a file and having an entire app installed for you with no further interaction is bad? Yet you want the OS installed with no interaction. Would you prefer the user makes a mess of their OS by installing apps to wherever they like as windows currently does? I believe we're talking primarily about switching to Linux from Windows here. Switching from OSX is a different story altogether since in my opinion the only reason to do that is to save money and have more control over the OS.
2. Its easier than installing windows. Never installed an OS that doesn't require user interaction - and I dont believe its possible to do that anyway. Imagine installing SuSE Linux only to get to the GUI and find that they assumed you speak German...etc. etc.
3. Separation of System and Apps? Works for me. Cant comment on OSX since haven't had enough experience with it. If you like it - keep using it - but understand that not everyone likes it.
4. Emulates poorly? Hmmmm, doesn't this mean its not emulating it? If you make it very different to windows, it will be perceived as hard to use. Keeping the look and feel similar and only improving on whats needed is just plain common sense.
5. not sure what you mean. Things are easy. Dont know too many people who "need" wizards that complain about windows even being too hard. People that dont need wizards may complain that it treats you like a moron - but in Linux you dont need to use wizards. Simple.
6. Pretty much how it is already in Linux - or would you prefer windows errors like "an error occurred".?
7. Development tools on linux are among the finest around. Syntax Highlighting works better, autocomplete works great, everything is integrated. When I use VS now I feel like its very lacking in features. Each to their own though. Package Management is the main way to install apps in most linux distros - it makes sense to use them. They work very well if used properly.
8. Copying the functionality of a similar app means it will be easy to adapt to and if another app is successful on another OS, why not base your app on the same model? As long as there is no copyright or similar infringement, it only makes sense from a usability perspective to follow the same guidelines. Most Linux apps are written to fill a need, and they often do.
9. (9 comes after 8) Most people DO use office at home. I'd bet its the #1 reason people buy a computer - to type and print documents. The fact is, openoffice 2 is a great alternative. Still, there are reasons for sticking with one or the other.
Sorry to be so harsh in replying to your points, but there is a wider world out there. Personally I'm not into forcing people to switch, but I do often point out to people that there are alternatives to windows.
Windows often DOESN'T do everything people need - they are just unaware of an alternative or dont really know enough about the alternatives to want to switch. All just my opinion of course.
Why is it that windows can be so greatly affected by seemingly insignificant programs that are installed?
A media player is a media player. Linux doesnt care if you install thousands of them. They only run in user space and they're all installed in/usr , not touching anything else in the system...
I never understood why this was such a problem in windows.:-)
The Mac and Linux markets are essentially non-existant.
...because developers refuse to code for them. Consumers cant buy games for Linux if they dont exist. Linux then becomes labelled as 'bad for games' and we have the classic chicken-and-egg problem...
If you are saying the Linux gaming market is non-existent then you are party to the reason why its non-existent. The only reason its non-existent is because people like YOU refuse to code for it. When will game developers stop giving us lame excuses and use portable code. Its going to take a fairly large number of games to get the linux market started, but wasnt it the same with windows? I think so!
the thing i love about nvidia drivers is that by adding 'Option "..."' lines to your/etc/X11/XF86Config file, you have access to most (if not all) features offered by the equivalent windows driver.
Also, the linux drivers are normally released at around the same time as the windows ones (although the 45xx driver for linux seems to be lagging)...
i never thought i'd see people on slashdot so actively promoting microsoft...
What ever happened to OpenGL? Anyone who imagines its somehow 'inferior' to directx doesnt know enough about it. The only thing opengl doesnt have is microsoft promoting it...
last i heard - when the FX came out it was head-to-head with the 9800 pro. I think i remember it was pretty even with ati coming out top in some things and nvidia in others.
also remember we're comparing 2 different cards with 2 slightly different feature-sets and possibly different goals as well.
i guess i should clarify my previous post a little -:S
i'm not saying nVidia cards are necessarily _better_... I just feel that these benchmarks are grossly missleading and not a fair comparison. I would expect to see the two cards in question perform 'neck & neck' since both are very nice cards!
Its just disappointing to see so much being made of 1 set of benchmarks for 1 game and essentially over 1 specific feature.
Interesting Analogy... We all know who Microsoft favours between Intel and AMD. We also know who Microsoft favours between ATI and nVidia!! (and it just so happens that the ones MS doesnt favour are the ones that support linux and linux users the best)
and MS are also behind DX 9. I wouldn't be surprised if ATI have been given way more support from MS with DX 9 compatibility than nVidia have but that's purely just skepticism on my part.
The real issue at hand is NOT which card performs better, but which card is more compatible with Valve's coding techniques. What's the bet that if they'd used a real API like OpenGL then nVidia would come out tops? Or perhaps if they'd used slightly different techniques the results would be different - which they've already half-proved with their 'mixed mode' code...except it appears they're not real familiar with nVidia cards since their 'optimisations' hardly benefitted the benchmarks at all.
Just because ATI cards appear to support DX 9 better (or, particularly, Valve's use of vertex/pixel shaders - which just happens to be one small part of DX 9), doesnt mean they are a better card. If one was to remove all vertex/pixel shader code from the game the results might be a tad closer to the mark. I do agree that nVidia have some work to do to get HL2 up to speed but I would argue that this whole thing is SPECIFIC TO HL2 and ONLY HL2! Otherwise we'd have heard of this before now. The coders at Valve can blame video drivers all they like but if no one else has had the problems they're having then its pretty obvious what the deal is. Not to point the finger directly, but my point is that until we hear the same results from more developers and from entirely different games/code then we can safely ignore this issue completely.
Also, Valve were quick to dismiss the new nVidia drivers over 'application-specific optimisations' issues. Let me ask you - what is the difference between Valve producing code that is optimised for a specific line of video card (not saying this is on purpose) or a video card manufacturer producing code that is optimised for the game? Its essentially the same thing. nVidia are doing what they can to provide their customers with value for money and leading performance, and to me that is far more commendable than a company who's support for Linux and Linux users is pitiful at best.
The interesting thing is how big an issue this is to many people (guess i'm included too) - all over just 1 game...and its all linked to just 1 feature (pixel shaders).;)
Why is it that the line 'rpmdrake now working' seems to appear in the release notes for just about every release of mandrake linux?
I'm currently running suse 8.2 (switched from mandrake to suse 8.1 back in mdk 8.2 days) but have used mandrake a fair bit in the past.
Mandrake 9.0 and later all seem to have broken tools in one way or another. Wizards just crash without warning (eg. the proxy server [squid] wizard in 9.1). There was no way to set up internet sharing without dhcp...leaving me to set up masquerading by hand via the ip masquerading howto. I once managed to set up my dialup internet connection using mdk 9.1. Later the system started behaving very strange - with complete lockups about once a week, whilst browsing the net with konqueror, and applications not firing up when launching them from the desktop and many other things which frustrated the hell out of me.
There's a lot of things I like about mandrake, but so far i have found the overall quality of suse distros to be far superior. I'm probably just very fussy, but mandrake seems to have a lot of rough edges - minor issues that have been overlooked. I also couldn't get my dialup setup again the second time I installed it (i've been using mandrake/suse for over 2 years now and installed both many times). The mandrake tool would constantly forget my settings and kppp seemed to be blocked by something else and would disconnect after checking username and password (these were entered correctly).
I'll still continue to check out future mandrake releases but suse seems (to me) to be a more polished distro.
Anyware are wholesalers for most Lian-Li products (and also a full range of Thermaltake products) with offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and Adelaide.
Being a wholesaler, they only sell to resellers though so if you're not a computer reseller, chances are your local computer shop is and should be able to order stuff for you...
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1. Package Management bad? You mean clicking on a file and having an entire app installed for you with no further interaction is bad? Yet you want the OS installed with no interaction. Would you prefer the user makes a mess of their OS by installing apps to wherever they like as windows currently does?
I believe we're talking primarily about switching to Linux from Windows here. Switching from OSX is a different story altogether since in my opinion the only reason to do that is to save money and have more control over the OS.
2. Its easier than installing windows. Never installed an OS that doesn't require user interaction - and I dont believe its possible to do that anyway. Imagine installing SuSE Linux only to get to the GUI and find that they assumed you speak German...etc. etc.
3. Separation of System and Apps? Works for me. Cant comment on OSX since haven't had enough experience with it. If you like it - keep using it - but understand that not everyone likes it.
4. Emulates poorly? Hmmmm, doesn't this mean its not emulating it? If you make it very different to windows, it will be perceived as hard to use. Keeping the look and feel similar and only improving on whats needed is just plain common sense.
5. not sure what you mean. Things are easy. Dont know too many people who "need" wizards that complain about windows even being too hard. People that dont need wizards may complain that it treats you like a moron - but in Linux you dont need to use wizards. Simple.
6. Pretty much how it is already in Linux - or would you prefer windows errors like "an error occurred".?
7. Development tools on linux are among the finest around. Syntax Highlighting works better, autocomplete works great, everything is integrated. When I use VS now I feel like its very lacking in features. Each to their own though. Package Management is the main way to install apps in most linux distros - it makes sense to use them. They work very well if used properly.
8. Copying the functionality of a similar app means it will be easy to adapt to and if another app is successful on another OS, why not base your app on the same model? As long as there is no copyright or similar infringement, it only makes sense from a usability perspective to follow the same guidelines.
Most Linux apps are written to fill a need, and they often do.
9. (9 comes after 8) Most people DO use office at home. I'd bet its the #1 reason people buy a computer - to type and print documents. The fact is, openoffice 2 is a great alternative. Still, there are reasons for sticking with one or the other.
Sorry to be so harsh in replying to your points, but there is a wider world out there. Personally I'm not into forcing people to switch, but I do often point out to people that there are alternatives to windows.
Windows often DOESN'T do everything people need - they are just unaware of an alternative or dont really know enough about the alternatives to want to switch. All just my opinion of course.
Why is it that windows can be so greatly affected by seemingly insignificant programs that are installed?
/usr , not touching anything else in the system...
:-)
A media player is a media player.
Linux doesnt care if you install thousands of them. They only run in user space and they're all installed in
I never understood why this was such a problem in windows.
did i really see the word 'honest' in this thread?
btw, is it the cards that dont work with the code? or the code that wont work with the cards?
If you are saying the Linux gaming market is non-existent then you are party to the reason why its non-existent. The only reason its non-existent is because people like YOU refuse to code for it. When will game developers stop giving us lame excuses and use portable code. Its going to take a fairly large number of games to get the linux market started, but wasnt it the same with windows? I think so!
the thing i love about nvidia drivers is that by adding 'Option "..."' lines to your /etc/X11/XF86Config file, you have access to most (if not all) features offered by the equivalent windows driver.
Also, the linux drivers are normally released at around the same time as the windows ones (although the 45xx driver for linux seems to be lagging)...
so much DX9 promotion here...
i never thought i'd see people on slashdot so actively promoting microsoft...
What ever happened to OpenGL?
Anyone who imagines its somehow 'inferior' to directx doesnt know enough about it. The only thing opengl doesnt have is microsoft promoting it...
proof?
last i heard - when the FX came out it was head-to-head with the 9800 pro. I think i remember it was pretty even with ati coming out top in some things and nvidia in others.
also remember we're comparing 2 different cards with 2 slightly different feature-sets and possibly different goals as well.
i guess i should clarify my previous post a little - :S
i'm not saying nVidia cards are necessarily _better_...
I just feel that these benchmarks are grossly missleading and not a fair comparison.
I would expect to see the two cards in question perform 'neck & neck' since both are very nice cards!
Its just disappointing to see so much being made of 1 set of benchmarks for 1 game and essentially over 1 specific feature.
Interesting Analogy...
;)
We all know who Microsoft favours between Intel and AMD. We also know who Microsoft favours between ATI and nVidia!! (and it just so happens that the ones MS doesnt favour are the ones that support linux and linux users the best)
and MS are also behind DX 9. I wouldn't be surprised if ATI have been given way more support from MS with DX 9 compatibility than nVidia have but that's purely just skepticism on my part.
The real issue at hand is NOT which card performs better, but which card is more compatible with Valve's coding techniques.
What's the bet that if they'd used a real API like OpenGL then nVidia would come out tops? Or perhaps if they'd used slightly different techniques the results would be different - which they've already half-proved with their 'mixed mode' code...except it appears they're not real familiar with nVidia cards since their 'optimisations' hardly benefitted the benchmarks at all.
Just because ATI cards appear to support DX 9 better (or, particularly, Valve's use of vertex/pixel shaders - which just happens to be one small part of DX 9), doesnt mean they are a better card. If one was to remove all vertex/pixel shader code from the game the results might be a tad closer to the mark.
I do agree that nVidia have some work to do to get HL2 up to speed but I would argue that this whole thing is SPECIFIC TO HL2 and ONLY HL2! Otherwise we'd have heard of this before now.
The coders at Valve can blame video drivers all they like but if no one else has had the problems they're having then its pretty obvious what the deal is. Not to point the finger directly, but my point is that until we hear the same results from more developers and from entirely different games/code then we can safely ignore this issue completely.
Also, Valve were quick to dismiss the new nVidia drivers over 'application-specific optimisations' issues. Let me ask you - what is the difference between Valve producing code that is optimised for a specific line of video card (not saying this is on purpose) or a video card manufacturer producing code that is optimised for the game? Its essentially the same thing. nVidia are doing what they can to provide their customers with value for money and leading performance, and to me that is far more commendable than a company who's support for Linux and Linux users is pitiful at best.
The interesting thing is how big an issue this is to many people (guess i'm included too) - all over just 1 game...and its all linked to just 1 feature (pixel shaders).
Why is it that the line 'rpmdrake now working' seems to appear in the release notes for just about every release of mandrake linux?
;-)
I'm currently running suse 8.2 (switched from mandrake to suse 8.1 back in mdk 8.2 days) but have used mandrake a fair bit in the past.
Mandrake 9.0 and later all seem to have broken tools in one way or another. Wizards just crash without warning (eg. the proxy server [squid] wizard in 9.1). There was no way to set up internet sharing without dhcp...leaving me to set up masquerading by hand via the ip masquerading howto. I once managed to set up my dialup internet connection using mdk 9.1. Later the system started behaving very strange - with complete lockups about once a week, whilst browsing the net with konqueror, and applications not firing up when launching them from the desktop and many other things which frustrated the hell out of me.
There's a lot of things I like about mandrake, but so far i have found the overall quality of suse distros to be far superior. I'm probably just very fussy, but mandrake seems to have a lot of rough edges - minor issues that have been overlooked. I also couldn't get my dialup setup again the second time I installed it (i've been using mandrake/suse for over 2 years now and installed both many times). The mandrake tool would constantly forget my settings and kppp seemed to be blocked by something else and would disconnect after checking username and password (these were entered correctly).
I'll still continue to check out future mandrake releases but suse seems (to me) to be a more polished distro.
Just my 2c.
These cases / mods and many more are distributed in Australia by Anyware Computer Accessories.
www.anyware.com.au
Anyware are wholesalers for most Lian-Li products (and also a full range of Thermaltake products) with offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, and Adelaide.
Being a wholesaler, they only sell to resellers though so if you're not a computer reseller, chances are your local computer shop is and should be able to order stuff for you...
S.C.O.
SMP Code Ours!
Sue Corporate Organisation...
Sample Code Omitted.
Same Code Obvious!
See? Code Ours!
Sudden Court Order.
Source Code OK.
S.C.Over!