Yes, these bands will be harder to find than those European bands. Well, not for a US resident, but the original poster was (I believe) *European*, i.e. the bands he talks about are major mainstream bands for him.
Note that he mentions "arena" performances. i.e. megaconcerts that only the largest bands enjoy.
Theatre of Tragedy rocks! I've heard some of their music on reccomendation by some friends in Europe. Great stuff.
It's not just European culture - It's European business practices. Radio stations operate differently there, etc. Europeans have some sort of digital subcarrier encoding standard that actually tells you *what other stations are in the area or in other cities* - For a US broadcaster, the possibility of you driving to another area is EXTREMELY undesirable to them.
Yes, almost surely she'd be selling more records with a big music company pushing her.
Here's the issue of quality vs. quantity. For her, CDs sold by her own outfit have a higher "quality" (measured in profit she sees) per item as opposed to CDs sold by [Insert Big Music Company Here].
Overall, she could probably sell 5-6x more records via the biggies and still be making *LESS MONEY* than she currently is, just because she is almost surely making *FAR* more money with her own label, etc. than if she went through Major Label X.
Why did I download them? They were on a dormmate's shared drive back at college and I had plenty of HD space.
Do I listen to them? Hmm... Maybe once a year. As opposed to other stuff I have that gets played around once a week or more. And since it's not a CD I can conveniently have it in my playlist for a little variety without having a sickening 45 minute Spears-A-Thon.
Honestly, her music isn't TOO bad to listen to once in a while, it's catchy. But it is grossly overplayed, and doesn't deserve more than the occasional sneak into a playlist for variety. And definately multiple Spears tracks should NOT be played in sequence for the sake of your mental health.
EverQuest is a subscription service that rakes in $5 million/month with very little effort beyond initial development.
I know a few business-type people that wish they could get into subscription services because that's where the $$$$$ is at.
Screw CDs. Screw copy protection.
Simply start up a service - $5-10/month for all the music you can listen to.
The average consumer probably buys only a few CDs/year. Spread out over 12 months, it comes out to $5-10/month.
A handful of consumers buy a lot more.
But I have a feeling that there are far more consumers who buy CDs rarely (like myself - Once every year or two I find something worth the $$$$) who would willingly pay $10-15 for unlimited listening.
I would only pay $5 or so if I couldn't save it though - If it doesn't play in my car, it's not worth much to me.
Didn't Palm announce a while ago their intentions to phase out their hardware business and simply license PalmOS?
(Which blows away WinCE hands-down, period.)
MS will never win because WinCE devices have the same pitfalls that kept the Newton in the niche - They're too big. Palms are smaller. Period. In the PDA market, smaller size and better battery life will go a LONG way to making up for a lack of snazzy "features" like color screens (battery hog), 64M RAM (as if the color screen weren't killing your battery already), and a 200+ MHz processor (User: Hey, my palm lasted for a month on a pair of AAAs, why won't this POS last more than a day or so between charges???)
Yes, Palm's market share has gone down, but probably most of their marketshare loss has gone to Handspring and Sony (Also to Kyocera and Samsung with their smartphone products)... Oh wait, they're paying Palm for the OS anyway. Not that much of a loss for them.
The i705 is a sucky idea, except for the unlimited use factor. The new trend is combining full voice phone capabilities into the device (Kyocera Smartphone 6035 and the upcoming 7135, Samsung i300, Handspring Treos)
Like the Treo, it was designed as a phone first and not a PDA, but with minimal sacrifice of PDA features.
Small screen? Only marginally smaller than those of traditional palms. (I think a difference of around 5mm...)
Apps? Like the Treo, fully PalmOS compatible.
Screen? Only black and white, but that's why the Kyocera blows away every other integrated phone (and many pure-phone devices) in battery life. Standby times of a week with the phone portion turned on are not unheard of.
Overall, from reviews of user experiences, the 6035, while having less features, is more user-satisfying. Partly due to the fact that it in general is a pretty tough phone. (It has a few weak points, but in general, many have accidentally dropped it on concrete/down stairs with the phone barely even getting scratched.)
The Kyocera 7135 (Coming out in September or October most likely - Kyo is being VERY secretive about the release date, but Verizon/Sprint reps seem to think Sept/Oct) is going to have a larger display, 16M memory, a flip design so it's smaller overall. Unfortunately, it's giving in to the color-screen fad.:(
Check out Andrew Corporation's HELIAX line of coax cables. http://www.andrew.com/products/trans_line/default. aspx
This is semirigid coaxial cable in LARGE diameters. The outer conductor is solid copper, not braided.
The trick to flexibility is that the copper jacket has a helical corrugation - Much more flexibility, MUCH harder to kink. For what amounts to a variant of 1/2-inch copper pipe filled with PE foam, their FSJ4 superflexible coax is AMAZINGLY flexible. (Sucks compared to our friend RG58, but as I said, given its diameter and the fact that the outer shield is solid, it's impressive.)
In fact, I believe Andrew does make fiber optic cables based on the Heliax concept.
Yup - http://www.andrew.com/products/trans_line/amarra.a spx In addition they have fiberglass-epoxy composite jacket cable.
Disclaimer: I do work for Andrew, although not for the division in question.
It's a given fact that the planet goes through climate cycles (read: Ice Ages, which come and go)
Ice started receding LONG before humans started emitting greenhouse gases. Keep in mind that most of New York and a decent amount of New Jersey is... Glacial moraine???? Yup. A long, long time ago, the place where I am sitting was under ice. Probably before humans had even discovered fire.
How much of this recession is from greenhouse gases and how much is from normal climate cycles?
Greenhouse gases are definately having an effect. The question is, are they having as much effect as Greenpeace would like us to think?
That final year won't be so great if you're making great financial sacrifices to achieve it.
$$$ was my final reason to get a job and go to grad school part-time rather than stay for my M.Eng at Cornell (1 more year with 0 financial aid and 0 income)
I'm honestly not sure whether it's the ceiling, the cube walls, or both, but there's a decent amount of sound dampening in the office where I work.
My floor is basically one huge room, except for two conference rooms and proper offices on the exterior of the building at the corners. I would've thought the sound would be horrible, but there's a LOT of dampening somewhere, I can only hear things less than 2-3 cubicles away. Things die off very quickly after that.
Here the cube walls have some sort of thick fabric lining them, I believe it has some decent dampening properties. Don't get cube walls that are purely solid (plastic|wood|metal), they won't absorb any sound whatsoever.
Somewhere on that article (or from this one), there's a link to the transcript of the Donahue show.
They keep on harping on two scenarios, killing a cop and killing a prostitute. The "concerned mother" keeps saying, "YOU GET MONEY! YOU GET HEALTH! NO CONSEQUENCES!"
Clearly forgetting that 10 seconds after the scene cop cars were suddenly much more agressive against you, and after more such infractions you eventually had the FBI coming after you with choppers. If you actually managed to survive that, please say hello to the National Guard, tanks and all.
Hello? No consequences? Getting run over by a National Guard tank isn't a consequence?
Boeing ran some tests on their craft, TRYING to interfere with its electronics. They couldn't.
These things are built to withstand *LIGHTNING* hitting the aircraft.
A small plane might have problems, not a commercial airliner.
The cell phone restrictions are FCC regulations due to interference to towers caused by high-flying phones.
Just don't use it during takeoff/landing, that's when the more "sensitive" navigation electronics are used (which is why NOTHING can be turned on then.)
With the pilot's permission, many people have used amateur band handhelds on airplanes to help them get WAS (Worked All States) and WAC (Worked All Counties, not Countries) on VHF/UHF. You're talking 5 watts here, not even a misconfigured 802.11 card can come close to this, and it's far closer to the airliner's comm frequencies too. Of course, ham HTs are typically pretty high-end RF-wise because hams are picky about performance.:)
Ah... The good 'ole keyboard vs. kb+mouse argument.
When I first started with Doom, I couldn't stand using the mouse... It was too hard to aim with.
It was around my sophomore year in HS that I started playing Quake and quickly started using the mouse for up-down control.
By my freshman year in college, I was a full mouse convert. A bunch of guys on my hall played Quake on a regular basis, we all laughed at Jeff, the cannonfodder down the hall that refused to start using the mouse, despite he had a (rare at the time) multibutton mouse for his Mac. Didn't help him that he was using software rendering, too, since Apple was still in love with then bottom-of-the-barrel chipset vendor ATi.
That reminds me... OUCH, Apple's switch to NVidia must've hurt ATi badly. Apple's switch over was probably a major wakeup call to ATi. Too bad ATi didn't shape up until it was too late and they'd lost a longtime customer.
What rock are you hiding under?
on
VisionTek Folds
·
· Score: 2
Asus and Hercules, while they may be very good manufacturers to those "In the know", are not quite "Major Brand" - Asus's primary market is to OEMs and people who buy motherboards.
Anyone who goes into a retail store to buy a video card sees one of the following: An ATi Radeon card A VisionTek Xtasy GeForce card A PNY Verto GeForce card (Much rarer thank VisionTek, this is going to change...)
Asus may have some of the best boards (I loved my V6800 deluxe), but they are nowhere close to being a major retail brand.
This appears to be describing legit, "Customer requested to be put on our mailing list" mailings, which IMO are not a problem - Such mailings CAN be nice. I'm subscribed to one, "Funtasia's internet deals", by choice because it keeps me updated on the most recent 'net deals. (Unfortunately, since the.com bubble burst, most of the deals are for stuff I don't care about, but Funtasia used to have the UPS guy coming to our house with cool stuff almost daily.:)
In fact, one of these "direct marketers" calls spam a problem, because the non-legit crap clogging our mailboxes distracts people from the useful commercial mailings they have asked for.
I guess the way to think of this is: Does ThinkGeek have a mailing list to notify customers of the latest kewl gadget? (They appear to have one, see following paste:
E-mail me occassional ThinkGeek updates and promotions!
Snail-mail me occassional ThinkGeek snail mail flyers or catalogs! )
This is the sort of mailings they're talking about. I get these mailings occasionally, I don't mind them - I asked for them.
Sometime in the future, a version of Quake were released where your run speed and endurance in-game were dependent on your real life run speed/endurance.
Suddenly you'd have hardcore gamers becoming athletes.:)
No "endurance hack" needed - Just keep playing and shape up.:)
In short, because the morons that support spammers are not likely ever to bother with filters.
The one exception - Filtering with bounce messages. This will cause SOME spammers (not all) to take you off their lists. Since implementing fake bounce messages triggered for every identified spam (See spambouncer.org), my spam counts have halved, from 90+ spams/day to 30-35, and decreasing. Unfortunately, some spammers (azoogle.com) blatantly ignore bounces, and others have non-bounceable return paths. If more people bounce their spams back, those who DO have bounceable (but ignored) returns will have their bandwidth costs increase.
I think the ultimate solution is that the spammers themselves have to be fought. Legislation is one - If 1 in 100,000 people respond positively to spam mail and only 1 in 100,000,000 sue for $500-1000, spam quickly stops being profitable. Also, some form of "voluntary" DDoS of spammers would be nice. Not voluntary for the spammers, but for all those who are attacking. For example, download a small app that each day presents you with an article, that basically states, "Today's target is xxxx - They are targeted because yyyy" and the evidence is presented against them. User can now decide if they want to participate. To minimize legal risks, trickery such as an absurdly slow HTTP GET would be useful. (G, sleep 5, E, sleep 5, T, etc etc) - Doesn't increase bandwidth costs, but the server will probably be brought to its knees rather quickly from having to serve too many simultaneous connections. A client could easily spool up 40-50 such connections with minimal use of local resources, but the server would have to open up hundreds of thousands of simultaneous connections, causing the server to fork like crazy.
What's the legality of a DDoS where each attacker is an individual person and not a "zombie"
I recall during the RIAA DoS discussion there were some methods of DoSing that were rather legit. (Slow HTTP request for instance - G, sleep 5, E, sleep 5, T, sleep 5, etc etc. Not a huge bandwidth hog but wreaks havoc with HTTP servers if enough people do it.)
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, these bands will be harder to find than those European bands. Well, not for a US resident, but the original poster was (I believe) *European*, i.e. the bands he talks about are major mainstream bands for him.
Note that he mentions "arena" performances. i.e. megaconcerts that only the largest bands enjoy.
Theatre of Tragedy rocks! I've heard some of their music on reccomendation by some friends in Europe. Great stuff.
It's not just European culture - It's European business practices. Radio stations operate differently there, etc. Europeans have some sort of digital subcarrier encoding standard that actually tells you *what other stations are in the area or in other cities* - For a US broadcaster, the possibility of you driving to another area is EXTREMELY undesirable to them.
Where is the origin of this "joke"
/., I have no idea what it's a reference to...
I've seen it numerous times on
Yes, almost surely she'd be selling more records with a big music company pushing her.
Here's the issue of quality vs. quantity. For her, CDs sold by her own outfit have a higher "quality" (measured in profit she sees) per item as opposed to CDs sold by [Insert Big Music Company Here].
Overall, she could probably sell 5-6x more records via the biggies and still be making *LESS MONEY* than she currently is, just because she is almost surely making *FAR* more money with her own label, etc. than if she went through Major Label X.
I have a few Britney Spears tracks on my HD.
Why did I download them? They were on a dormmate's shared drive back at college and I had plenty of HD space.
Do I listen to them? Hmm... Maybe once a year. As opposed to other stuff I have that gets played around once a week or more. And since it's not a CD I can conveniently have it in my playlist for a little variety without having a sickening 45 minute Spears-A-Thon.
Honestly, her music isn't TOO bad to listen to once in a while, it's catchy. But it is grossly overplayed, and doesn't deserve more than the occasional sneak into a playlist for variety. And definately multiple Spears tracks should NOT be played in sequence for the sake of your mental health.
MS wants to move to subscription services.
EverQuest is a subscription service that rakes in $5 million/month with very little effort beyond initial development.
I know a few business-type people that wish they could get into subscription services because that's where the $$$$$ is at.
Screw CDs. Screw copy protection.
Simply start up a service - $5-10/month for all the music you can listen to.
The average consumer probably buys only a few CDs/year. Spread out over 12 months, it comes out to $5-10/month.
A handful of consumers buy a lot more.
But I have a feeling that there are far more consumers who buy CDs rarely (like myself - Once every year or two I find something worth the $$$$) who would willingly pay $10-15 for unlimited listening.
I would only pay $5 or so if I couldn't save it though - If it doesn't play in my car, it's not worth much to me.
Since when were there Sybian phones??? Umm, well I guess a phone DOES vibrate. (Note, Sybian is a product um... targeted towards females)
I think you meant Symbian...
It's EASY to get PalmOS 3.5/4.0/4.1 for free, *even downloading from Palm's own site*
Didn't Palm announce a while ago their intentions to phase out their hardware business and simply license PalmOS?
(Which blows away WinCE hands-down, period.)
MS will never win because WinCE devices have the same pitfalls that kept the Newton in the niche - They're too big. Palms are smaller. Period. In the PDA market, smaller size and better battery life will go a LONG way to making up for a lack of snazzy "features" like color screens (battery hog), 64M RAM (as if the color screen weren't killing your battery already), and a 200+ MHz processor (User: Hey, my palm lasted for a month on a pair of AAAs, why won't this POS last more than a day or so between charges???)
Yes, Palm's market share has gone down, but probably most of their marketshare loss has gone to Handspring and Sony (Also to Kyocera and Samsung with their smartphone products)... Oh wait, they're paying Palm for the OS anyway. Not that much of a loss for them.
The i705 is a sucky idea, except for the unlimited use factor. The new trend is combining full voice phone capabilities into the device (Kyocera Smartphone 6035 and the upcoming 7135, Samsung i300, Handspring Treos)
The Kyocera 6035 Smartphone.
:(
Like the Treo, it was designed as a phone first and not a PDA, but with minimal sacrifice of PDA features.
Small screen? Only marginally smaller than those of traditional palms. (I think a difference of around 5mm...)
Apps? Like the Treo, fully PalmOS compatible.
Screen? Only black and white, but that's why the Kyocera blows away every other integrated phone (and many pure-phone devices) in battery life. Standby times of a week with the phone portion turned on are not unheard of.
Overall, from reviews of user experiences, the 6035, while having less features, is more user-satisfying. Partly due to the fact that it in general is a pretty tough phone. (It has a few weak points, but in general, many have accidentally dropped it on concrete/down stairs with the phone barely even getting scratched.)
The Kyocera 7135 (Coming out in September or October most likely - Kyo is being VERY secretive about the release date, but Verizon/Sprint reps seem to think Sept/Oct) is going to have a larger display, 16M memory, a flip design so it's smaller overall. Unfortunately, it's giving in to the color-screen fad.
Check out Andrew Corporation's HELIAX line of coax cables. http://www.andrew.com/products/trans_line/default. aspx
a spx
This is semirigid coaxial cable in LARGE diameters. The outer conductor is solid copper, not braided.
The trick to flexibility is that the copper jacket has a helical corrugation - Much more flexibility, MUCH harder to kink. For what amounts to a variant of 1/2-inch copper pipe filled with PE foam, their FSJ4 superflexible coax is AMAZINGLY flexible. (Sucks compared to our friend RG58, but as I said, given its diameter and the fact that the outer shield is solid, it's impressive.)
In fact, I believe Andrew does make fiber optic cables based on the Heliax concept.
Yup - http://www.andrew.com/products/trans_line/amarra.
In addition they have fiberglass-epoxy composite jacket cable.
Disclaimer: I do work for Andrew, although not for the division in question.
It's a given fact that the planet goes through climate cycles (read: Ice Ages, which come and go)
Ice started receding LONG before humans started emitting greenhouse gases. Keep in mind that most of New York and a decent amount of New Jersey is... Glacial moraine???? Yup. A long, long time ago, the place where I am sitting was under ice. Probably before humans had even discovered fire.
How much of this recession is from greenhouse gases and how much is from normal climate cycles?
Greenhouse gases are definately having an effect. The question is, are they having as much effect as Greenpeace would like us to think?
He's on scholarships limited to 4 years.
i.e. he doesn't have much of a choice.
That final year won't be so great if you're making great financial sacrifices to achieve it.
$$$ was my final reason to get a job and go to grad school part-time rather than stay for my M.Eng at Cornell (1 more year with 0 financial aid and 0 income)
I'm honestly not sure whether it's the ceiling, the cube walls, or both, but there's a decent amount of sound dampening in the office where I work.
My floor is basically one huge room, except for two conference rooms and proper offices on the exterior of the building at the corners. I would've thought the sound would be horrible, but there's a LOT of dampening somewhere, I can only hear things less than 2-3 cubicles away. Things die off very quickly after that.
Here the cube walls have some sort of thick fabric lining them, I believe it has some decent dampening properties. Don't get cube walls that are purely solid (plastic|wood|metal), they won't absorb any sound whatsoever.
Somewhere on that article (or from this one), there's a link to the transcript of the Donahue show.
They keep on harping on two scenarios, killing a cop and killing a prostitute. The "concerned mother" keeps saying, "YOU GET MONEY! YOU GET HEALTH! NO CONSEQUENCES!"
Clearly forgetting that 10 seconds after the scene cop cars were suddenly much more agressive against you, and after more such infractions you eventually had the FBI coming after you with choppers. If you actually managed to survive that, please say hello to the National Guard, tanks and all.
Hello? No consequences? Getting run over by a National Guard tank isn't a consequence?
i am not poet
but this sounds cool to me now
spammers will have pain
If a bunch of people on /. each sent $5-10 to the PersonalTelco people, they could buy a 1-watt SmartAmp.
*splat* Goodbye Starbucks, unless they move off-channel.
It sounds like it's sited at an ISP that uses those dual T1s for other purposes.
At the moment, the 802.11 traffic likely isn't much of a negative impact on whatever they're doing up there.
Despite differing SSIDs, the two APs are on the SAME CHANNEL.
i.e. range and speed are now greatly reduced for both premises.
I think the SeattleWireless people should start up a donation fund to pump their AP up to legal-limit power.
Starbucks will be forced to change that channel or get complaints from people trying to use their system.
Boeing ran some tests on their craft, TRYING to interfere with its electronics. They couldn't.
:)
These things are built to withstand *LIGHTNING* hitting the aircraft.
A small plane might have problems, not a commercial airliner.
The cell phone restrictions are FCC regulations due to interference to towers caused by high-flying phones.
Just don't use it during takeoff/landing, that's when the more "sensitive" navigation electronics are used (which is why NOTHING can be turned on then.)
With the pilot's permission, many people have used amateur band handhelds on airplanes to help them get WAS (Worked All States) and WAC (Worked All Counties, not Countries) on VHF/UHF. You're talking 5 watts here, not even a misconfigured 802.11 card can come close to this, and it's far closer to the airliner's comm frequencies too. Of course, ham HTs are typically pretty high-end RF-wise because hams are picky about performance.
Ah... The good 'ole keyboard vs. kb+mouse argument.
When I first started with Doom, I couldn't stand using the mouse... It was too hard to aim with.
It was around my sophomore year in HS that I started playing Quake and quickly started using the mouse for up-down control.
By my freshman year in college, I was a full mouse convert. A bunch of guys on my hall played Quake on a regular basis, we all laughed at Jeff, the cannonfodder down the hall that refused to start using the mouse, despite he had a (rare at the time) multibutton mouse for his Mac. Didn't help him that he was using software rendering, too, since Apple was still in love with then bottom-of-the-barrel chipset vendor ATi.
That reminds me... OUCH, Apple's switch to NVidia must've hurt ATi badly. Apple's switch over was probably a major wakeup call to ATi. Too bad ATi didn't shape up until it was too late and they'd lost a longtime customer.
Asus and Hercules, while they may be very good manufacturers to those "In the know", are not quite "Major Brand" - Asus's primary market is to OEMs and people who buy motherboards.
Anyone who goes into a retail store to buy a video card sees one of the following:
An ATi Radeon card
A VisionTek Xtasy GeForce card
A PNY Verto GeForce card (Much rarer thank VisionTek, this is going to change...)
Asus may have some of the best boards (I loved my V6800 deluxe), but they are nowhere close to being a major retail brand.
This appears to be describing legit, "Customer requested to be put on our mailing list" mailings, which IMO are not a problem - Such mailings CAN be nice. I'm subscribed to one, "Funtasia's internet deals", by choice because it keeps me updated on the most recent 'net deals. (Unfortunately, since the .com bubble burst, most of the deals are for stuff I don't care about, but Funtasia used to have the UPS guy coming to our house with cool stuff almost daily. :)
In fact, one of these "direct marketers" calls spam a problem, because the non-legit crap clogging our mailboxes distracts people from the useful commercial mailings they have asked for.
I guess the way to think of this is: Does ThinkGeek have a mailing list to notify customers of the latest kewl gadget? (They appear to have one, see following paste:
E-mail me occassional ThinkGeek updates and promotions!
Snail-mail me occassional ThinkGeek snail mail flyers or catalogs!
)
This is the sort of mailings they're talking about. I get these mailings occasionally, I don't mind them - I asked for them.
Sometime in the future, a version of Quake were released where your run speed and endurance in-game were dependent on your real life run speed/endurance.
:)
:)
Suddenly you'd have hardcore gamers becoming athletes.
No "endurance hack" needed - Just keep playing and shape up.
In short, because the morons that support spammers are not likely ever to bother with filters.
The one exception - Filtering with bounce messages. This will cause SOME spammers (not all) to take you off their lists. Since implementing fake bounce messages triggered for every identified spam (See spambouncer.org), my spam counts have halved, from 90+ spams/day to 30-35, and decreasing. Unfortunately, some spammers (azoogle.com) blatantly ignore bounces, and others have non-bounceable return paths. If more people bounce their spams back, those who DO have bounceable (but ignored) returns will have their bandwidth costs increase.
I think the ultimate solution is that the spammers themselves have to be fought. Legislation is one - If 1 in 100,000 people respond positively to spam mail and only 1 in 100,000,000 sue for $500-1000, spam quickly stops being profitable. Also, some form of "voluntary" DDoS of spammers would be nice. Not voluntary for the spammers, but for all those who are attacking. For example, download a small app that each day presents you with an article, that basically states, "Today's target is xxxx - They are targeted because yyyy" and the evidence is presented against them. User can now decide if they want to participate. To minimize legal risks, trickery such as an absurdly slow HTTP GET would be useful. (G, sleep 5, E, sleep 5, T, etc etc) - Doesn't increase bandwidth costs, but the server will probably be brought to its knees rather quickly from having to serve too many simultaneous connections. A client could easily spool up 40-50 such connections with minimal use of local resources, but the server would have to open up hundreds of thousands of simultaneous connections, causing the server to fork like crazy.
What's the legality of a DDoS where each attacker is an individual person and not a "zombie"
I recall during the RIAA DoS discussion there were some methods of DoSing that were rather legit. (Slow HTTP request for instance - G, sleep 5, E, sleep 5, T, sleep 5, etc etc. Not a huge bandwidth hog but wreaks havoc with HTTP servers if enough people do it.)