It's an invalid argument. The fact remains that the stuff is there, and some vandalism may be more subtle than the more obvious example talked about here - and if users can't be sure, how can they rely on it ?
To reply "you should fix it" when someone mentions an inaccuracy totally misses the point of the "useful resource" in the first place, and it's a shame it's an invalid argument, because with it, you can never lose... Yeah, blame EVERYTHING on the users, and wp shirks all blame.
And don't panic, Mr. Wales, I don't expect you to fix it all either... "Boy, you just don't get it." - Fix the cause, not the effect.
oh please! It wasn't his duty to fix it. And anyway, if everyone 'fixed' vandalised articles, they'd soon delete updates that should be there.
No encyclopedia expects the READER to fix things, so I assume you are agreeing with the OP that wikipedia!=encyclopedia ?
Anyway, the OP was being charitable when he said collection of "facts".. Whilst some, probably most are, some aren't, and that's the problem.. A collection of "opinions" would be more apt.
Ahhh, there are 2 things you don't criticise on slashdot... linux and wikipedia.. go on, fan-mods, mod me down, you know you want to, because you can't handle the truth.
> Are you kidding me? Why the hell would anyone suggest FreeBSD to someone who's already > mad as hell at how poorly modern Linux distros install and operation?
Yes, I was.. Sorry, I was quite drunk, and was fed up of reading all the Linux fanboys on that thread that I decided to post my first troll EVER:)
Anyway, now I'm sober, I will add that I introduce my computer-clueless father to computers via FreeBSD - once set up, and X configured etc. and autologin set from console, it really is no harder than windows to learn. IN fact, it's really easier - he used mail and web, and was not going to be installing things himself, and it meant I could lock things down so he couldn't accidently delete them, and he didn't have to worry about viruses and malware etc.
Of course, this applies to any of the BSD/Linux distributions, but it is interesting that a lot of people say "unix is too hard to set up for the average user" when the same 'average user' they are talking about couldn't set up windows EITHER.
A more level playing field would be to compare the experience of 'average user' with pre-installed and configured windows vs. unix systems.
> dnl means "delete new-lines". > > The M4 macro preprocessing tends to insert a lot of extra blank lines into the > resulting.cf file, so the dnl's are basically macros that remove extra new-line > characters. > > Yes, it is stupid.
Actually, you are, because you're wrong!
I don't know exactly what it stands for, but it's purpose is to "ignore rest of line", in other words, do exactly as '#' does in shell scripts etc.
"delete (to) newline" or "disregard to newline" ?
Dunno.. Yeah, stupid name, but at least it does something more useful than you thought!
> In the end, I'm happy with Gentoo. Regardless of the path I took to get there. > FreeBSD didn't work out. Maybe with another wasted week I could be more versed > in why FreeBSD was a bad choice.
And you accuse people of being 'over sensative' to what you say.
Maybe - just maybe - with another week, you could have sorted out your issues, and realised FreeBSD was the best choice ever. However, you didn't perservere, so you don't know. So comments such as that quoted above, in a BSD section of Slashdot are nothing more than trolling.
> FreeBSD on AMD64 still takes a little work (hint: some ports say they're 386 only just because no one's bothered to add amd64 to the make file. Never hurts to try.)
Well, help yourself, and others in your situation by raising PR's when you find such a port!
As usual, it seems that a useful British invention is being promoted and developed in America.
We still have lots of good inventors, but they either get no backing, or have to go abroad, or either watch their idea dieing, or being exploited by someone else.
It's no wonder our country is going to pot. You need to be on a TV reality show to be successful these days.
My ISP gives a permanent 'lease' on dynamic IP's - You keep the same one unless you disconnect for one reason or the other... but this is PPPoA not PPPoE, which may be relevent.. Who knows?
Bind allows you to send a different IP address to 'strangers' (or any specified ACL list)
I've used it successfully on a number of voxel hosts that have been attempting to DOS my server with about 40 packets a second for the last few months.
> To me, a full-time Linux user, FreeBSD remains as that alternative exotic Unix > thingy, which (because of Linux's greateness) has no reason to exist whatsoever. > Disclaimer: I know I'm extremely wrong here, but I just don't know why and I hope > someone will enlighten me in a friendly tone. > > To put it simply: Given the existence of Linux, a technically superb and free as in > speech OS, why would anyone be interested in FreeBSD [I hope you forgive me;)]?
To me, a full-time FreeBSD user, Linux remains as that alternative exotic Unix thingy, which (because of FreeBSD's greateness) has no reason to exist whatsoever. Disclaimer: I know I'm extremely wrong here, but I just don't know why and I hope someone will enlighten me in a friendly tone.
To put it simply: Given the existence of FreeBSD, a technically superb and free as in speech OS, why would anyone be interested in Linux [I hope you forgive me;)]?
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you.. Just clarifying in case anyone read your post and said "ooh, that's a good idea, I'll start parsing X-FORWARDED-FOR" if it exists.
You'd also have to test before you rely on this feature of a proxy that the proxies "do the right thing" if the user tries to spoof the X-FORWARDED-FOR client-side, which would presumably mean getting an account via that ISP to test, but I realise you know that already..
> But assuming that IPv6 is worth deploying, Microsoft is way ahead in getting > computers IPv6-enabled. Their work on Teredo should make life a lot easier > for P2P developers.
Errrm, my non-MS router, firewall, OS, and p2p software are all fully IPv6-enabled.
The router, firewall and OS have had full IPv6 for many years, LONG before MS put Ipv6 into windows.
And gtk-gnutella, for linux/freebsd is a gnutella client that is ipv6 enabled (admittedly, there aren't many ipv6 gnutella clients out there at the moment)
So, not dissing Teredo - I don't know anything about it -- but how come "MS" is "way ahead" ? If MS had ipv6 from win98 onwards (which is AFTER the time FreeBSD had it with the KAME project) then just about every system on the internet now would be IPv6 capable, so I repeat, how exactly is Microsoft "way ahead" ?
> Well, if you ask me IPv6 sounds like a potential golden oppurtunity to enforce > use of systems such as DomainKeys [yahoo.com] or SPF [openspf.org]. Seeing as > everyone would have to recode their mail server software to work with IPv6, > they may as well make sure it supports those sender validation techonologies, > and seeing as everyone is going to have to do it around the same time, it sounds > like it would be a good idea to make it compulsary on IPv6 rather than optional, > this means that spammers will be unable to forge their from addresses over IPv6... except that many mailer clients, and servers have fully implemented IPv6 for years already.....
Despite the somewhat trolly nature, this post DOES make sense.
If you are announcing a page that really contains nothing dynamic, then make a (even just temporary) static copy, and post that instead.
If it's not a forum which requires "login" etc. then a static page will do, and as the 'so called troll' implies, you could serve it from anything without being cpu-slashdotted
> When posting this, there were only 21 comments total... And yet not only the primary sites, but the Google caches and mirrors were Slashdotted.
Probably not google..
When you go to google-cache, it's just the HTML that is cached -- the inline images of the page are still loaded off the original server... So, as long as you have "IMAGES ON" then a google cache will still appear to be "slashdotted" if the original site is
Slashdot Mirror
No, you don't get it, anon.
It's an invalid argument. The fact remains that the stuff is there, and some vandalism may be more subtle than the more obvious example talked about here - and if users can't be sure, how can they rely on it ?
To reply "you should fix it" when someone mentions an inaccuracy totally misses the point of the "useful resource" in the first place, and it's a shame it's an invalid argument, because with it, you can never lose... Yeah, blame EVERYTHING on the users, and wp shirks all blame.
And don't panic, Mr. Wales, I don't expect you to fix it all either... "Boy, you just don't get it." - Fix the cause, not the effect.
oh please! It wasn't his duty to fix it. And anyway, if everyone 'fixed' vandalised articles, they'd soon delete updates that should be there.
No encyclopedia expects the READER to fix things, so I assume you are agreeing with the OP that wikipedia!=encyclopedia ?
Anyway, the OP was being charitable when he said collection of "facts".. Whilst some, probably most are, some aren't, and that's the problem.. A collection of "opinions" would be more apt.
Ahhh, there are 2 things you don't criticise on slashdot... linux and wikipedia.. go on, fan-mods, mod me down, you know you want to, because you can't handle the truth.
It would presumably come up with the same results show in these videos on the Escher site itself:
http://www.mcescher.com/Downloads/downloads.htm
> Are you kidding me? Why the hell would anyone suggest FreeBSD to someone who's already
:)
> mad as hell at how poorly modern Linux distros install and operation?
Yes, I was.. Sorry, I was quite drunk, and was fed up of reading all the Linux fanboys on that thread that I decided to post my first troll EVER
Anyway, now I'm sober, I will add that I introduce my computer-clueless father to computers via FreeBSD - once set up, and X configured etc. and autologin set from console, it really is no harder than windows to learn. IN fact, it's really easier - he used mail and web, and was not going to be installing things himself, and it meant I could lock things down so he couldn't accidently delete them, and he didn't have to worry about viruses and malware etc.
Of course, this applies to any of the BSD/Linux distributions, but it is interesting that a lot of people say "unix is too hard to set up for the average user" when the same 'average user' they are talking about couldn't set up windows EITHER.
A more level playing field would be to compare the experience of 'average user' with pre-installed and configured windows vs. unix systems.
Cheers,
Jamie
The question was "why aren't you using FreeBSD" ?
Then you should check out Freebsd : www.freebsd.org
> dnl means "delete new-lines". .cf file, so the dnl's are basically macros that remove extra new-line
>
> The M4 macro preprocessing tends to insert a lot of extra blank lines into the
> resulting
> characters.
>
> Yes, it is stupid.
Actually, you are, because you're wrong!
I don't know exactly what it stands for, but it's purpose is to "ignore rest of line", in other words, do exactly as '#' does in shell scripts etc.
"delete (to) newline"
or "disregard to newline" ?
Dunno.. Yeah, stupid name, but at least it does something more useful than you thought!
> In the end, I'm happy with Gentoo. Regardless of the path I took to get there.
> FreeBSD didn't work out. Maybe with another wasted week I could be more versed
> in why FreeBSD was a bad choice.
And you accuse people of being 'over sensative' to what you say.
Maybe - just maybe - with another week, you could have sorted out your issues, and realised FreeBSD was the best choice ever. However, you didn't perservere, so you don't know. So comments such as that quoted above, in a BSD section of Slashdot are nothing more than trolling.
MOD THAT MAN A TROLL!
If you stop trolling Linux propoganda, people will take you seriously.
:-(
Actually, I HOPE you realise you're trolling, otherwise you are too far gone down Penguin road to ever recover
> FreeBSD on AMD64 still takes a little work (hint: some ports say they're 386 only just because no one's bothered to add amd64 to the make file. Never hurts to try.)
:)
Well, help yourself, and others in your situation by raising PR's when you find such a port!
Start with my ports
No.
Jokes are funny.
It was only a logical response for a Linux fanboy troll to make.
Now go away, the parents are trying to talk.
Your a tit.
Why do Linux people write things that are more commercially available on windows ?
Closed Source ?
Hmm, well you have the viral GPL.
Go troll somewhere else, fanboy.
As usual, it seems that a useful British invention is being promoted and developed in America.
We still have lots of good inventors, but they either get no backing, or have to go abroad, or either watch their idea dieing, or being exploited by someone else.
It's no wonder our country is going to pot. You need to be on a TV reality show to be successful these days.
Not necesarily just related to static IPS.
.. but this is PPPoA not PPPoE, which may be relevent.. Who knows?
My ISP gives a permanent 'lease' on dynamic IP's - You keep the same one unless you disconnect for one reason or the other.
Not quite.
I take it you haven't heard "The gnu song" (I'm a gnu) by Flanders and Swann ?
They pronounce it "ger-noo" throughout.
And seeing as that was recored in 1959, it predates the Stallman Gnu effort somewhat.
In fact, I was 'brought up' thinking this was how "gnu" is pronounced, maybe due to hearing this song as a child.
google/p2p it.
Bind allows you to send a different IP address to 'strangers' (or any specified ACL list)
I've used it successfully on a number of voxel hosts that have been attempting to DOS my server with about 40 packets a second for the last few months.
> To me, a full-time Linux user, FreeBSD remains as that alternative exotic Unix ;)]?
;)]?
> thingy, which (because of Linux's greateness) has no reason to exist whatsoever.
> Disclaimer: I know I'm extremely wrong here, but I just don't know why and I hope
> someone will enlighten me in a friendly tone.
>
> To put it simply: Given the existence of Linux, a technically superb and free as in
> speech OS, why would anyone be interested in FreeBSD [I hope you forgive me
To me, a full-time FreeBSD user, Linux remains as that alternative exotic Unix
thingy, which (because of FreeBSD's greateness) has no reason to exist whatsoever.
Disclaimer: I know I'm extremely wrong here, but I just don't know why and I hope
someone will enlighten me in a friendly tone.
To put it simply: Given the existence of FreeBSD, a technically superb and free as in
speech OS, why would anyone be interested in Linux [I hope you forgive me
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you.. Just clarifying in case anyone read your post and said "ooh, that's a good idea, I'll start parsing X-FORWARDED-FOR" if it exists.
You'd also have to test before you rely on this feature of a proxy that the proxies "do the right thing" if the user tries to spoof the X-FORWARDED-FOR client-side, which would presumably mean getting an account via that ISP to test, but I realise you know that already..
> But assuming that IPv6 is worth deploying, Microsoft is way ahead in getting
> computers IPv6-enabled. Their work on Teredo should make life a lot easier
> for P2P developers.
Errrm, my non-MS router, firewall, OS, and p2p software are all fully IPv6-enabled.
The router, firewall and OS have had full IPv6 for many years, LONG before MS put Ipv6 into windows.
And gtk-gnutella, for linux/freebsd is a gnutella client that is ipv6 enabled (admittedly, there aren't many ipv6 gnutella clients out there at the moment)
So, not dissing Teredo - I don't know anything about it -- but how come "MS" is "way ahead" ? If MS had ipv6 from win98 onwards (which is AFTER the time FreeBSD had it with the KAME project) then just about every system on the internet now would be IPv6 capable, so I repeat, how exactly is Microsoft "way ahead" ?
> Well, if you ask me IPv6 sounds like a potential golden oppurtunity to enforce .. except that many mailer clients, and servers have fully implemented IPv6 for years already.....
> use of systems such as DomainKeys [yahoo.com] or SPF [openspf.org]. Seeing as
> everyone would have to recode their mail server software to work with IPv6,
> they may as well make sure it supports those sender validation techonologies,
> and seeing as everyone is going to have to do it around the same time, it sounds
> like it would be a good idea to make it compulsary on IPv6 rather than optional,
> this means that spammers will be unable to forge their from addresses over IPv6.
Of course, you could ONLY accept the X-FORWARDED-FOR header for *known* 'safe' 'official' proxies, that are known to:
a) Delete the header if it already exists from the client.
b) Set the correct value for this header.
Just relying on that header if it's there is the worst possible thing you could do, as any client can add that header to say whatever they like.
If you've properly PLAYED the other 10 on the list, then your comment could be justified....
Have you ?
Despite the somewhat trolly nature, this post DOES make sense.
If you are announcing a page that really contains nothing dynamic, then make a (even just temporary) static copy, and post that instead.
If it's not a forum which requires "login" etc. then a static page will do, and as the 'so called troll' implies, you could serve it from anything without being cpu-slashdotted
> When posting this, there were only 21 comments total... And yet not only the primary sites, but the Google caches and mirrors were Slashdotted.
Probably not google..
When you go to google-cache, it's just the HTML that is cached -- the inline images of the page are still loaded off the original server... So, as long as you have "IMAGES ON" then a google cache will still appear to be "slashdotted" if the original site is