I've seen this both in the work place, with fresh out of school kids thinking they know everything, as well as the kids still in school thinking they're going to get some fabulous job.
As an instructor at a university, I usually get at least once a semester, a student who will raise his (not being sexist, just not ususally any women in my CS classes) hand, and ask something like: "What kind of salary range can I expect when I graduate?", or "What kinds of jobs are there out there?".
I usually laugh first, then tell them the grim truth, that seems to have escaped them up til this point.
You should see their crushed looks when I tell them that if they stay here in NE Ohio, that they'll be lucky to get mid to uper 30's to start, and REALLY lucky if they get in the lower to mid 40's to start.
For some reason, they're expecting 50's to 60's, fresh out of school or something. I just don't get it.
So I tell them, move, or pick a field that doesn't have many people in it, if they want to make more...
Anyway, just thought I'd share.
Oh, and the funniest, are all the new kids, who think they're going to get jobs with big video game development studios right out of school! I laugh, and then when they look hurt because they weren't joking, I tell them they'll be lucky to get a testing job for my little ponies 4 paying $7/hour on the west coast...they don't seem to like that much...
The sad reality, is that 90% of them will be doing web development, and "playing" video games on their free time...
You think the degree matters? I think you'll be lucky to get a job regardless of where your degree's from. The only thing going to a better school will
get you is a better shot at a good grad school...
And unless you really want to spend 7-10 years in
school getting a phD, I'd just stick with wherever you're happiest.
Only thing a better school will mean is more work and less beer/fun!
Take it from some one who has been in school FAR too long and has a crappy job...hell the one moron here with no degree, no training, and no skills whatsoever makes more than me simply because...well no one really knows why...I think it's just cause the "Director of Operations" "likes his hussel"...I think those were the exact words...
Ok done venting...yeah focus on having fun and getting by with "good enough" grades...you'll be happier in the long run...
Ditto on everything, but especially on taking philosophy classes. You'd be surprised at how interesting they are.
Also, I'd suggest the following:
Intro to world religion (goes A LONG way to helping you understand other people), Languages (pick one, or a couple, I suggest latin as it helps understanding quite a few other languages), if you're going into CS try some MIS or management type course...they usually have more women and can learn you something you might use in the real world (although you might not want to...like VB.NET). Actually just taking any class outside the normal curriculum is worthwhile...
But if you're focusing on the chick factor, the areas I've found the best are Business (micro economics...), really low level math classes...may not count, but you can always tutor:), biology, education (like early childhood classes, developmental psychology, etc), psychology (but I've found most people studying psychology usualy are the types that should be seeing a psychologist themselves!).
I'd also say hang out in any Labs or common areas in the building where most of your major classes are, that way you'll meet as many of the people you'll be in class with the next 4 years as possible. The kids who always went home and did their homework from their rooms never really made any friends...and lets face it, you need friends to play some late night MOH or Halo with right?
And I'd say the most important thing of all is the avoid credit cards at all cost...I made the mistake well before even going to school and believe me it REALLY sucks now! You'll actually want to see some of that mad $$ you'll be making after school!
What I meant is that the CS people are realizing there aren't any jobs in that field and so their going into other fields to pay the bills.
My point being is that most people who aren't CS types think that CS is still the place to be to make the money, only the true geeks (like those of us who read slashdot) actually know the industry is cruddy now (well and those of us who have tried to find a job recently).
As far as there being good paying jobs in cs? Show me some?!?! There definately aren't any in Ohio! Most of my friends have taken either crappy jobs or crappy pay just to be able to afford to pay back their student loans!
I for one am getting about half the salary I should be! So if you know where the good paying jobs are, please point me in the right direction!
How old are you? I'm sorry but that statement is very immature. I for one know from first hand experience how stupid proffessors can be (I was a sysadmin at a univeristy for a few years) and how little they know about using computers, even windows boxes. But knowing how to work a windows box and programming doesn't ecompass even a fraction of what computer science is about.
Lets face it, when the language of the week, or the OS of the year fades away, we'll still have theory! And that's what's important to a CS program.
The saying "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life" or some crap, same goes for cs. Teach a student some programming language and they can program as long as that language is popular, but teach a student HOW to program, and they can pick up any languages in no time!
Actually, from talking to everyday "non-geek" people, I find that they're all still under the impression that there is alot of money to be made in CS. So I bet the people leaving the field ARE the real geeks who love computers.
I bet they're all waking up and realizing that if they want to survive (and afford their expensive habit if you will), they need to get a real job that pays...
I'd venture to say the poeple sticking with it are still mostly money grubbers who are going to have a very surprising wake up call when they graduate.
Maybe all the real geeks are going over to MIS...anyone compare the decline in CS to the numbers from business schools???
I'd like to see them...
Best thing you can do...make sure your parents aren't logging in as administrator!! (If using xp, linux, andything where there is a separate account for admin...). If using xp, make their "account" on the machine a non-privledged user...this will prevent them from installing anything...
Next is to make sure their behind some kind of firewall, preferably a linux box or cable router (I don't trust just the plain xp firewalling).
And the last step is to install tightvnc as a service on their machine! That way you don't have
to drive all the way to your parents to fix their computer when nasty software gets installed, or their email gets "broken". Or if you just need to install software for them (since their not allowed).
Oh and make sure they only use software that is
also available for linux (open office/mozilla/gaim etc). That way you can switch them to linux/bsd/osx and they wouldn't be the wiser...
I'm so sick of PAYING to watch cable and STILL having to watch stupid comercials!! I'm already paying for crying out loud! I should either get
cable for free and pay by watching ads, or I should
pay for cable and get ZERO ads...
So I'm glad that ad companies are losing money!
They should lose money. They've screwed me long enough, now it's my turn to do some screwin...er um...you know what I mean!
Slashdot Mirror
I've seen this both in the work place, with fresh out of school kids thinking they know everything, as well as the kids still in school thinking they're going to get some fabulous job.
As an instructor at a university, I usually get at least once a semester, a student who will raise his (not being sexist, just not ususally any women in my CS classes) hand, and ask something like: "What kind of salary range can I expect when I graduate?", or "What kinds of jobs are there out there?".
I usually laugh first, then tell them the grim truth, that seems to have escaped them up til this point.
You should see their crushed looks when I tell them that if they stay here in NE Ohio, that they'll be lucky to get mid to uper 30's to start, and REALLY lucky if they get in the lower to mid 40's to start.
For some reason, they're expecting 50's to 60's, fresh out of school or something. I just don't get it.
So I tell them, move, or pick a field that doesn't have many people in it, if they want to make more...
Anyway, just thought I'd share.
Oh, and the funniest, are all the new kids, who think they're going to get jobs with big video game development studios right out of school! I laugh, and then when they look hurt because they weren't joking, I tell them they'll be lucky to get a testing job for my little ponies 4 paying $7/hour on the west coast...they don't seem to like that much...
The sad reality, is that 90% of them will be doing web development, and "playing" video games on their free time...
You think the degree matters? I think you'll be lucky to get a job regardless of where your degree's from. The only thing going to a better school will get you is a better shot at a good grad school... And unless you really want to spend 7-10 years in school getting a phD, I'd just stick with wherever you're happiest.
Only thing a better school will mean is more work and less beer/fun!
Take it from some one who has been in school FAR too long and has a crappy job...hell the one moron here with no degree, no training, and no skills whatsoever makes more than me simply because...well no one really knows why...I think it's just cause the "Director of Operations" "likes his hussel"...I think those were the exact words...
Ok done venting...yeah focus on having fun and getting by with "good enough" grades...you'll be happier in the long run...
Ditto on everything, but especially on taking philosophy classes. You'd be surprised at how interesting they are.
:), biology, education (like early childhood classes, developmental psychology, etc), psychology (but I've found most people studying psychology usualy are the types that should be seeing a psychologist themselves!).
Also, I'd suggest the following:
Intro to world religion (goes A LONG way to helping you understand other people), Languages (pick one, or a couple, I suggest latin as it helps understanding quite a few other languages), if you're going into CS try some MIS or management type course...they usually have more women and can learn you something you might use in the real world (although you might not want to...like VB.NET). Actually just taking any class outside the normal curriculum is worthwhile...
But if you're focusing on the chick factor, the areas I've found the best are Business (micro economics...), really low level math classes...may not count, but you can always tutor
I'd also say hang out in any Labs or common areas in the building where most of your major classes are, that way you'll meet as many of the people you'll be in class with the next 4 years as possible. The kids who always went home and did their homework from their rooms never really made any friends...and lets face it, you need friends to play some late night MOH or Halo with right?
And I'd say the most important thing of all is the avoid credit cards at all cost...I made the mistake well before even going to school and believe me it REALLY sucks now! You'll actually want to see some of that mad $$ you'll be making after school!
Just my $0.50...
What I meant is that the CS people are realizing there aren't any jobs in that field and so their going into other fields to pay the bills.
My point being is that most people who aren't CS types think that CS is still the place to be to make the money, only the true geeks (like those of us who read slashdot) actually know the industry is cruddy now (well and those of us who have tried to find a job recently).
As far as there being good paying jobs in cs? Show me some?!?! There definately aren't any in Ohio! Most of my friends have taken either crappy jobs or crappy pay just to be able to afford to pay back their student loans!
I for one am getting about half the salary I should be! So if you know where the good paying jobs are, please point me in the right direction!
How old are you? I'm sorry but that statement is very immature. I for one know from first hand experience how stupid proffessors can be (I was a sysadmin at a univeristy for a few years) and how little they know about using computers, even windows boxes. But knowing how to work a windows box and programming doesn't ecompass even a fraction of what computer science is about.
Lets face it, when the language of the week, or the OS of the year fades away, we'll still have theory! And that's what's important to a CS program.
The saying "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life" or some crap, same goes for cs. Teach a student some programming language and they can program as long as that language is popular, but teach a student HOW to program, and they can pick up any languages in no time!
Just my theory on CS education...
Actually, from talking to everyday "non-geek" people, I find that they're all still under the impression that there is alot of money to be made in CS. So I bet the people leaving the field ARE the real geeks who love computers. I bet they're all waking up and realizing that if they want to survive (and afford their expensive habit if you will), they need to get a real job that pays...
I'd venture to say the poeple sticking with it are still mostly money grubbers who are going to have a very surprising wake up call when they graduate.
Maybe all the real geeks are going over to MIS...anyone compare the decline in CS to the numbers from business schools???
I'd like to see them...
Best thing you can do...make sure your parents aren't logging in as administrator!! (If using xp, linux, andything where there is a separate account for admin...). If using xp, make their "account" on the machine a non-privledged user...this will prevent them from installing anything...
Next is to make sure their behind some kind of firewall, preferably a linux box or cable router (I don't trust just the plain xp firewalling).
And the last step is to install tightvnc as a service on their machine! That way you don't have to drive all the way to your parents to fix their computer when nasty software gets installed, or their email gets "broken". Or if you just need to install software for them (since their not allowed).
Oh and make sure they only use software that is also available for linux (open office/mozilla/gaim etc). That way you can switch them to linux/bsd/osx and they wouldn't be the wiser...
Oops...didn't realize someone had basically already said the same thing...oh well....guess that means it must be true right?!?!
I'm so sick of PAYING to watch cable and STILL having to watch stupid comercials!! I'm already paying for crying out loud! I should either get cable for free and pay by watching ads, or I should pay for cable and get ZERO ads... So I'm glad that ad companies are losing money! They should lose money. They've screwed me long enough, now it's my turn to do some screwin...er um...you know what I mean!