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Protecting Our Parents' PCs?
Frustrated Son asks: "I assume that many Slashdot readers must serve as the IT staff for their parents. My folks get my old machines and just enough software to be productive. I try to protect my parents from the forces of evil by installing automatic OS updates, virus checkers, spyware blockers, pop-up blockers... But still I find that my parents end up with unwanted applications and dangerous software. What software or strategies do you use to protect your parents' PCs? Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?"
No thanks necessary, it's what I do. :)
(and yes, I know he said PC. I consider this a PC solution.)
What software or strategies do you use to protect your parents' PCs? Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?"
Well, the solution is pretty simple actually. Since OS X does not have the virus/worm issues that Windows has, is easy to use and set-up, does not have the malware issues that Windows has, I purchased iBooks for my mother and my sister to use. They are cheap, quite effective, durable as can be and since they live many hundreds of miles away from me, I am not always having to do tech support over the phone (or video iChat). Quite frankly, I really don't have the time these days to do computer support so this really is the best solution. Additionally, I would much rather spend the time I have to interact with my family on more fulfilling topics than computer support.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
I run into the same problem at my college which distributes laptops to all students. I have come up with a motto that has made life easier for a great many people...
"JUST SAY NO!"
No matter what it's asking, just click no. I've never run into a time where this can cause a problem. If it comes back a few times, (do you want to go to this encrypted page), read it. Then if you're really sure, click yes.
Before they were controlling what I should and I shouldn't watch, now I'm controlling what they should and shouldn't download and install.
Ahh, the life cycle.
You can give them "kiddy wheels" like they put on public computers... but then they'll probably be like "Why can't I install this" and you'll have to think of an answer other than "You're too stupid to have that kind of power so I took it away from you."
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
I start by making their account a 'guest'. If I have to be the IT staff policy #1 is don't install/change anything without asking! Thus 'guest' works well.
I just create a ghost of the system with everything installed and every so often just wipe the computer and reinstall things. Takes a little doing to get the parents trained well enough to save files correctly, but it works well, and every 6 months i sit down for a couple hours and reinstall everything. Maybe over doing it but I dont have to do anything in between except change ink cartridges
30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
Score:5, Troll
Well, Linux of course!
Or some other OS that doesnt suck and require you to install shit.
If my Mum ever wanted a computer, I'd set her up with NT4 (SP1), IIS running, no virus scanner or firewall, and her logged in as Administrator. :)
I've mentioned Linux, and how nice it is, and once she became frustrated with Windows, I'm sure she'd agree
Get your own free personal location tracker
I got my parents, particularly my dad, Firefox. My dad was always plauged with spyware and such things when he browsed with Internet Exploiter. Now he uses Firefox which doesn't allow all of that crap to automatically install itself. Also because he's using Firefox, system updates aren't always as urgent as they would be if he actually used IE.
My parents have a Gentoo Linux box, and only I have the root password.
No Internet Explorer/Outlook. Do not let them use it under any circumstances. That's where the vast majority of problems from the internet come from. Get them Mozilla, or Firefox/Thunderbird, or Opera, or anything other Internet Explorer and Outlook.
I use VNC to do check ups on my fathers computer a few times a day. This is real usedull because you can check the computer as if you were sitting in front of it in a very short ammount of time; You dont have to stand up and phisicaly be at the computer.
I also installed Mozilla Firebi...fox on his computer so that he does not install anything he really neads.
Remove that blue "e" from the Programs menu, and teach them to click on the little red fox circling the globe. That'll prevent a lot of this from happening...
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
Seriously, install a distro with a minimalist desktop and a browser+email client. No virus, no adware, you know.
Ryo99.
How to deal with tech support requests from parents?
That's what my two younger brothers are for! I just had to teach them enough so that I could send my parents to them.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
If the spyware removal software you use is adaware (Which I am assuming due to the link in the article) then you getting a scanner rather than a blocker, I don't think even the paid version of adaware has real time scanning. Correct me if I am wrong
No. Plain and simple, no. I once tried to fixed a computer for a friend. He "clicked" on the AOL icon, and claimed his computer was broken. And by clicked, I mean that he picked up the mouse and "clicked" it against the monitor. I was unable to help him due to the excessive laughter I was experiencing and still do when I think of that day.
"Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?"
Yes, it is and it is free as well, AVG, ZA, Folding are great examples of how to protect your computer now and your life in the future. And your family as well.
My mom's pretty clever, and she listens to what I tell her when I talk about computers. So, in addition to using AdAware, AVG Anti-Virus, Zone Alarm and Mozilla (web and mail), she knows enough to install all the WinXP updates ASAP and never, ever believe anything that arrives in her inbox. Thank god my father rarely touches that machine... Oh, and I have VNC installed there, too, for when I need to do some remote administration from 1100 miles away.
Another trick that I find useful in XP is to set them up as a limited user, and encourage them to use it for day-to-day stuff (like in *nix), give them the password for the administrator account, but make sure you stress that it should only be used to install software.
..educate them, just a little bit.
just little things, like DON'T use ie on pron sites. don't install little helper applications they didn't spesifically went on to look for(bonzi buddies&etc - just not using ie puts this down pretty well though).
then lock down the computer from any outside access(firewall) but please, don't make it so that the firewall gets in the way since they will figure out how to disable it if it is very annoying(the whole point of why it was there was to remove annoyances, so if it is set to so aggressive that it really becomes an annoyance with a person who doesn't even understand the "allow connection blabla" dialogs it isn't fulfilling it's purpose).
though, these tips are quite obvious. just get it around into their heads that it is good for _them_ to use something else than ie for almost anything if they don't wish to get popups in the middle of doing some spreadsheets.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I actually swapped tech support with a buddy of mine. Its so frustrating trying to tech support your own parental unit machines. So, I tech support his parents, and he tech supports my parents. This has helped a lot in terms of stress and getting annoyed at the "stoopid" questions.
It's not often that users like that legitimately need to install software. Change their account type from "Administrator" or "Power User" to just "User", and they'll be much safer. For when they DO need to legitimately install something, you could let them have the administrator password.
My server
Stop Lying!
I'm a gentoo zealot and I have to say, YOU SIR HAVE GONE TO FAR!
If you don't install it, the first time your parents want to see a Real stream, they'll install it themselves, and have it do all that nasty stuff.
Moral: install everything your parents might ever need and configure it properly. That's what Linux distros do!
Install a decent OS for them -- FreeBSD or Linux will fit. MacOS is Ok too, I suppose, but that may not be your hardware.
There is a learning curve with this OSes, but it is not -- as I'm finding out with my own parents, and my (gasp!) significant other's grandparents -- any steeper than with Windows. Really... E-mail is e-mail and web-browsing is web-browsing. The added bonus is, I can get in from afar and fix whatever issue surfaces or add whatever program they want.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Sure i'll help mum, dad and the girlfriend with their PC problems. I even used to help friends, but now-a-days it costs my mates beer for me to fix pc problems, either that or i tell them to get lost and fix it themselves.
I like the idea of giving them a mac, but my mum is reasonably fluent in speaking windows, im not sure if i'd confuse her if i gave her a mac to use however.
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
I spend hours locking down the box, turning off their permissions, setting up virus and spyware scanners with automatic updates and run-times and admonished them to run Firefox. Took a long time.
They still got infected. I still got calls. LOTS of calls. "Slow!" "Hijacked homepage!" "radioactive monkeys!" etc.
Then I got them a used G4. Works a charm. They're happy, I'm happy, the web is safer for them and from them.
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
It seems the major source of unwanted junk on my charges' PCs is IE.
Firebird, in addition to all the other stuff already mentioned in the OP's text, really helps limit the unwanted crap.
While this might not stop the problem, it is useful to load VNC. up on their box so you can remotely clean up things. In a lot of cases parents and children don't live in the same town, so no only do you have this problem, but you may not get to the machine for a while. Assuming they have a reasonable network connection, this can be a lifesaver. And prevents you from getting frustrated while you try to explain to them "....move the mouse to the toolbar"
I make an lmhosts entry for things like gator
as 127.0.0.1. That way, the parents can't
surf to the malware site anyway. I have a
fairly comprehensive list of sites. It might
not always be uptodate, but it blocks the random
gator install.
Yea, yea, yea. I'm restricting the rights of
the end user. Who cares. My parents have no
interest in visiting gator anyway.
I got my parents using Linux. I have had to give them some training, but mostly it has just worked.
I can remotely admin their machine via the console, and I know it a lot better than Windows, so when they have problems, I can help them out.
I would highly suggest Windows 2K/XP, auto updates and all the goodies you suggest, and a good remote desktop package such as TightVNC. Then make sure to keep the administrator password under lock and key, and give them restricted user accounts.
This way they have the ability to use the machine and the installed software, but are not allowed (or rather - simply can't) install any additional software. I thought about doing this with my parent's PC, but realized my sisters would flip out when they realized they wouldn't be able to download the latest file sharing programs. So - if there is any way you can get them to live with such a PC, I would highly suggest it.
Oh - and don't forget to teach them how to keep important data safe (maybe even set up one of those nifty new external backup hard drive devices with backup software), so that if things do go south you can just come over and reload things without any worries of lost data. Just some ideas...
I installed Mozilla Firebird on my parents computer which is also used by my sister.. Installed all the plugin's they could ever use, and so far, the only way unwanted programs pop up on their machine, is when my sister jumps on to internet explorer cause she gets some errors on sites that say "Internet explorer only!!!" Which is bull, cause I know Mozilla will support what they want, but due to crappy scripting on their javascript, it searches for browser names, not capability... So in conclusion, I would suggest using....
Mozilla Firebird for Browsing
Delete ALL Traces of Internet Explorer Icons
Use Lavasoft Ad-Aware Personal Edition
Use ZoneAlarm Personal Edition
Invest a small bit of money into Norton Antivirus
And above all.. Lock all active x stuff from emails if you still have them using Outlook from M$...
Just me
Nothing gets rid of spyware better than a good old fashion formatting. Since your parents aren't really doing anything useful on their computer (I mean lets face it, what good is a pc, other than for gaming :-p), just make an image of their harddrive after you get it tweaked. And make a ghost every month or so. Its more effective than adaware, and much more fun than defragging.
Kent
Kent Simon Multitheft Auto
My father has never used the Internet before and has just started browsing EBay for antique glass. I've printed out, in 48-point lettering, "EBay will never ask you for your password by email" and pinned it to the wall next to the PC.
I'm thinking of replicating this for other tricks that some people try to pull.
Rule of thumb: I'll support you for free if you buy a Mac. If you buy a PC, you use the Yellow Pages. Problem solved.
--
$tar -xvf
I just got my mother a laptop for her birthday. Set up a restricted account for her, and install mozilla, adaware, and (so that I can remotely administer it) VNC.
She's more than happy with it. It does what she wants, and she can't break it. If she needs it to do more (which I doubt she ever will), I can VNC in to install whatever she needs.
... is the only way to save people from these things. If you give them a tutorial instead of simply installing things on their computer (for example, you don't have to click 'yes' when a website wants to install something, and you should never open email attachments that you're not expecting -- that sort of thing), you'll equip them with something much more powerful than a firewall or a virus scanner. This obviously holds for people other than your parents. Try to keep them informed -- I realize that most people don't really want to know too many things about using computers, but you should explain to them that using the internet's similar to driving in that if you don't know safety rules, you could end up seriously hurt.
-- K
This includes updating virus protection(AYG, so they don't have to worry about keeping it paid), running windows update, a full defrag, and I make sure their OO.org and mozilla are up to date.
Hakkuna friggin' Matata. :)
You are not the customer.
A couple of years ago I gave my Dad his first compy. It was an old one of mine. He got online, and enjoys it. The problem is, the beast is running Win2K and he is not experienced online. Nothing is realy seen as a threat, so his mailbox is full of spam and the like all the time. Compy slows down from spyware, and I have to rebuild it.
Lately, he has been using a linux box at my house when he visits and seems comfy enough with it. That is what I am building for him now. He will get an old compy from me with Fedora installed. I will include apt and run it from a cron-job, enable ssh from my IP for those help requests, and he can surf safely and play with his digital photos. That is the plan here, if your parents are older and you cannot buy them a Mac, hook them up with an older PC running an easy linux distro and set them free.
Make sure you install Firefox instead of IE.
In my experience this will elimintate a lot of garbage that gets built up on windows installations.
Thanks to google bombing it takes less that 5 minutes of surfing the web to get spyware installed on your computer when using IE.
Install firefox and configure the blocking capabilities.
Some may argue that some pages won't work but to remedy this you can install the "view page in ie" plugin so they only enter "the forbidden app zone" when necessary.
My mother has actually started taking a few basic computer classes, which have yielded an improvement in her basic usage skills.
My solution was to install Mozilla, set it as the default browser, lock the rest of the box down, etc. and then just lie lie lie when asked why funnyjoke.exe that they got in their email isn't working.
"Sorry, mom, sometimes stuff just isn't compatible with blah blah blah."
"Oh, that webpage isn't working? Yeah, it's probably a problem with their server. Stuff on the Internet isn't always reliable."
Sure, they miss out on a lot of "content," but nothing they can't live without.
Do I feel bad about lying? Yeah, kinda, but it's better than making them feel stupid for Window's design flaws.
Perhaps eventually they'll move on to something better and gain the expertise to avoid these perils themselves, but I'm not going to cram lectures and lessons down their throats. I'm patient enough to let them learn on their own pace.
And like I said, they're really not missing out on anything important so far.
> I want Milfeulle to bake me a cake.
What software or strategies do you use to protect your parents' PCs? Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?
I demoed him my laptop (with Debian). He liked it, so I got rid of WinME that had become riddled with spyware and installed (this was about a year ago) Woody, a GNOME2 backport, a 2.4 kernel, Firebird, Thunderbird, OOo, and Shoreline firewall with rules to deny all incoming connections expect for SSH from my personal machine's MAC address. Never had another problem. In fact, his job issued him a laptop (Compaq w/ XP) that he hardly uses because he finds Debian so much easier. To keep him up to date, I log in remotely and do the apt-get upgrade for the security updates.
I also did something similar for my brother with an old Dell P-II laptop he had with Windows 2000 that kept getting viruses and spyware. Only, since my brother is on the road alot, I taught him how to do the security updates himself.
The number of support calls I get from my family has dropped from one a week to almost none.
If you must stick with windows, make them a normal user account for them to use regularly.Then make yourself an administrator account (as if you hadn't already). Then, turn on remote desktop and install programs via teh innerweb for them.
If that fails, or you don't feel like doing it that way, get 'em an iLamp. I worked in a school that was all OS 10 and each day I'd see more and more teachers getting these babies. If you don't trust your parents with the gooey LCD of none-touchy-ness get them an eMac. It's like a 17" microwave with an OS. (Ever heard an eMac?) A 3 peice machine with "Rock hard unix."
And this just turned into a porn commercial. I'm leaving!
For me, I watched mom run an exe attachment right in front me... because 'so and so' sent it... Just like all those other users that face the internet every day.
Solve that problem...and profit!
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
he'll just happily type in his CREDIT CARD number to any email that asks for it.
or his social security number, bank account info, etc.
You're doing everything right. Add ad-aware to the list. Make sure anti-virus is up to date and stop worrying about the rest. My dad got real on his machine. No big loss. I would never go near it, personally. Your parents will never run as tight a ship as you would want for yourself. Explain the risks, do what you can, and let the rest happen as it will.
Install Mozilla or Firefox ...
Stick with Safari, it comes with Mac OS X, it gets updated automatically like the OS, and frankly will get better support when a company blows it and produces a page that doesn't render correctly. Apple is actually somewhat helpful on that last point when the offending site is somewhat important, say online banking, they may contact the offender. I believe Safari has a built in reporting mechanism for bad pages.
She doesn't have to learn Linux, no one has to spend $$$ on a Mac, and she can still watch those stupid WMV video clips her friends send her links to.
Chances are your parents already have a Windows PC, just keep it and install the right free apps and you'll be all set.
There have been many suggestions for buying a Mac/using OSX, but if buying a new computer is not an option, here are some ideas.
Set up accounts that restrict administrator style access for use by your parents.
Disable ActiveX and java on their browsers.
Force them to use web-based e-mail accounts only. (this atleast has the potential to avoid vulnerabilities inherent to MS outlook, etc)
Last but not least, keep a ghost image of the last time you reinstalled windows handy.
Personally, I've given up on all of the above (except for maybe the last) and decided to let my parents make mistakes. After all, that is the way I learned what to do and not to do regarding dangerous software/spyware etc. Sure I could strip all the functions away from the computer to make it safe but then what use is it to my parents...
Linux is an obvious alternative but my parents need to use software that only runs on windows.
So you want to surf the web, dad? WELL TOO BAD!! I'm in charge now! Mohahahahaaaa!!! Who's the boss now?! Huh?! Huh?!!!!
Oh, uh, sorry.
Man, I've gotta get outa my parents' basement more....
Electric Monkey Pants
I simply bought my parents an iBook and visit it every 6 months to make sure their software is up to date (aka Mac OS X 10.3, updates to Safari, etc.)
They have yet to have any major problems with it and my mom is astounded that she is achieving things with her computer that she never thought she could, like organizing her photos and e-mailing them off to friends.
In addition to this, make sure to not set them up as an administrator.
I'm not saying you shouldn't leave them with administrator access, just make sure that it isn't their day-to-day user account.
I'm very glad not to have this kind of problem. My Dad has been using computers since the days of punch cards, and he was the one who introduced me to Linux. The tech support questions I tend to get from him are things like "Which distribution are you using these days?" Naturally, he's more than capable of taking care of my Mom's tech support issues.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
Oh yeah! That's the solution. Dad, just run Turbotax, Autocad and Quicken with WINE. It's really easy. Ahh forget Linux. Real Men (or whatever) use BSD. That's what my parents use! (Would I lie?) It's great for USB scanners.
I protect my folks' PCs by shepherding them to use Mozilla to browse the web and read mail. The strategy has been quite succesful. In the last 5-6 years I never had to fumigate their PCs from any viruses, trojans, etc...
So I got called in to "fix" a machine from the parental units. Some spyware/adware got into a fight with the AVG scanner causing it the screen to go black soon after bootup. How the hell it got through in the first place, I don't know, but the solution was boot from CD, run the virus scanner, delete the offending files, reboot.
Installed spybot S&D afterwards and sure enough, spyware all over the place. Went home thinking "my linux box doesn't EVER have this problem."
But see, my dad does my taxes and it's best not to offend. Plus as far as I know, Turbotax runs on Windows and not the penguin. You can educate all you want, install and run all the preventive measures you want, but in the end, it's the end-user that can royally bork a system.
You want protection? Take them out of any network. Want absolute protection? Grind the PC to bits. If you want a compromise, you'll have to deal with preventive maintenance...and you'll find out your mom or dad will STILL run unexpected file attachments.
I am 31 years old, and I beleive I don't say it enough "I apprecieate my parents"
Dad's a Programmer, Mom's an Admin.
It's where I learned it all the first place, I guess it helps having technically savvy parents.
GIRLFRIENDS on the other hand... I just dont let her on the net except to check email, and then I have vigorous virus checks, She knows "under penalty of loosing the laptop" that she is not to open any attachments, She doesnt have any need to get any from the people that work for her(email is only to send information TO them). But I still get the Weekly, "how do I send this email again?" she is about as technically UNsavvy as I am on the other end of the scale.
moo.
On my mom's PC, I always make sure that she has Firefox or some other browser without ActiveX (where most spyware and the such comes from), install flash, shockwave, and java plugins, and keep a good virus scan going at all times (I use PC-Cillin but norton works well also).
The best way to have good security on your parents' computers is to educate them (whos the parent now?!) on e-mail attachments and what to do in case of a popup. My mom freaked out when she got her first "natural male enhancement" spam but it showed her why not to enter your e-mail whenever it says "enter your e-mail" on a web site.
I'd have them run Dansguardian/Squid with no content filtering but very restrictive file type blocking. If they need content filtering you could tune it for them at some additional time investment.
I'm sure there's a way to do this without Dans and using only squid so it could run on MS systems as I don't think Dans is available for Windows. Anyway, Dans makes it so easy it's what I'd recommend.
Also you get the lower virus profile with something like Lycoris, and you could cron up all the autoupdating.
I'd also a VNC server service on their box so you can help them out easily and even show them how things are done. There are other ways to do this too, but I live VNC best as it's easy to setup on almost any platform.
-dameron
Well, considering that Pops got an associate degree in computer science back in the mid-80s, I don't worry too much about him (currently running Xandros). My mom, however, is another story. My dad doesn't have the patience to help her (& vice versa). That leaves me, even though I live on the opposite side of the state (about a 5 hour drive). Whenever I'm over there for holidays or whatnot, I do a full check of her system (running MS 98, Spybot S&D, AVG Anti-virus) and apply any updates. She knows enough not to open attachments, so she does pretty well. That, and I recently (over Christmas) talked her into Thunderbird (the spam blocker == major selling point) and basically just swapped Firebird for Explorer (erased the Explorer icons, imported her bookmarks into Firebird).
Email and eBay are about all she uses the computer for, so it works pretty well. When I'm confident in a distro's compatibility with her digital camera and find a simple photo editor, I figure I'll just make her a Linux user. As long as she can still do what she wants, she won't care.
The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer. - Albert Einstein
teach them how to use the programs on there....and why you need it, what it does, etc.
i have my mom using firefox, spybot s&d and adaware
she runs all the updates and uses the spyware removers....she hasn't yet had a virus.
i tought her what to look for in emails and whatnot.
then she tought my dad. phone calls from them with computer troubles are few and far between.
time spent educating them is time well spent. you have the knowledge, so you may as well share it.
Make sure you add stuff like the adblock plugin to firefox, make sure popup blocking is enabled, and set some general filters like */ads/*, */banners/*, *.doubleclick.net/*, etc.
Set a policy that you wont help them if they dont use the alternative programs and run Ad-Aware ~once/week.
If all else fails, set them up with linux. In most cases, parents dont want to do anything other than check their email, browse the web, and use basic office apps. Don't give them too many features they arent used to or havent used (possibly through gator-style apps) on windows. I have had my dad running on RedHat 9 and (more recently) Mandrake 9.2 since he finally upgraded from his Celeron 366/Win98 box.
BTW, is it just me, or does the "dangerous software" link in the original read like gator paid them to soften their criticism?
My parents are both in their late 50s. They do not to computers readily, nor do they learn quickly. But they do learn. I've shown my parents, carefully, the results that happen from each action. Install spyware or adware? The computer is slow. Open unknown attachments? Get a virus. Fail to update Windows/Norton/AdAware, get taken advantage of. By now, they can operate pretty close to self-sufficiency. About once or twice a month I'll get an e-mail or an IM if they want to double-check a course of action with me, but 90% of the time they choose correctly with my input in those cases anyway.
In short, stop underestimating people just because they didn't grow up around personal computers. A little bit of time and help can go a long way.
Cogito ergo sum in Slashdot.
for fuck's sake, these are your parents. you should be happy to spend time with them
... it's a justification for getting home cooked meals
just be patient and teach them the basics. "mom, when you get email from someone you don't know, just delete it and i'll look at it next weekend"
besides
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Well, neither of my parents are stupid, so I explain to them what it is I am doing and why.
I implement many of the same things as listed in other posts: Non-admin accounts, Firefox, auto-updating virus checkers etc. The point is that all these are solutions selected based on my product knowledge, what I try to give my parents is a good understanding of the first principals involved.
This has equips them to deal with issues in a timely way, solve their own problems, be empowered over the computer as opposed to being intimidated by it and most importantly, not call me every time something happens, but instead call me to boast about how they solved X, Y or Z.
Dialectician. Archology.
Get Mom an Atari ST with 1024Mb of RAM and a Prolog browser with FORTRAN email. Security by PAIN. WHO cares if you Know it? Is it wierd?...
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Or, rather, send them off with a properly-tweaked computer. My family had one computer we used for years, and I handled all of the ZoneAlarm, anti-virus, etc., stuff (because they don't really understand any of it).
When I was ready to head off to college, I just left that computer and took my own laptop. Only one program has been (deliberately, of course) installed that could be considered "dangerous," but neither Ad-aware or Spybot notices it, so I've left it. My mom really enjoys being able to use extra smileys in e-mails, so it's not worth the trouble to remove and teach her how to use "safe" programs to do the same thing. The smiley thing hasn't affected stability any more than me sitting down for five minutes, either, and I know it's not sending out secure information or doing anything illicit (illegal, too, probably).
They haven't had any problems with ZA or anything else, as far as I can tell. I go home and everything still works pretty well.
thats dumb
they have the admin/root account??
thats dumb
Cant they wait for you to install stuff for them
Havent you taught your parents right from wrong?
Migrate them either to an Apple, or get them to use Mozilla Firefox (.8 is actually very stable, and the plugins install very well), and Mozilla thunderbird (again, 0.5 is great).
Security through a combination of obscurity and better design.
terpmotors.com
If you use windows 2000 or XP, create a simple user for yous parents. They dont need to have administrator privileges ;)
My mom and grandma both run fedora since all they do is use firefox and evolution and frozen bubble it all works out. My dad uses mandrake 9 and even goes so far as to play dvd's heh. Since I migrated them from windows 98 to linux I've had ZERO, thats right ZERO calls when something is wrong with the computer. I now only get calls about how to do more things, like my grandma would like to burn cd's with k3b /me faints.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
I yell at my dad.
Allot.
Makes up for my lousy sysadmin skills... Instead of actually fixing something, I'll just run up to the guy and yell "DO NOT TOUCH THAT!!!" if he even thinks about doing something silly, often driving my mom insane. My mom on the other hand is scared of computers and I've taught her that as soon as she doesn't understand something, she's got to close it. ( "Yes mom, the little cross on the top right of that little doodad..." )
Hate me!
for software i usually setup firefox(automatic popup blocking) and spybot or adaware. Teach the person how to scan themselves, and do windoze updates and everything seems to work out fine.
All modern OS's have the same user-interface paradigm: the desktop. Windows, mac, linux, etc... The interface to all modern, graphical apps are essentially the same as well, i.e. web browsers all have content frame in the middle, status bars, nav bars, address bars...
Thus, to the computer illiterate, it doesnt matter what OS their using, because navigating local apps is still through a desktop and web surfing is through some sort of browser interface. Thus, knowing this, you can switch them to practically anything non-Windows and you'll get rid of most (if not all) of the virus, spyware, adware apps that infest the windows world.
Anyone who ever argues that has a better UI, they only say that because thats what they're used to. But from the POV of the computer illiterate, its really all the same...
Get two hard drives and have them save only their data on one (probably won't be alot), and install all program files on the other. Keep installation CD's on hand. Format and reinstall as necessary.
And has for quite some time.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
I mentioned this story sometime back (but will trot it out again).
I made the mistake of clicking on DVD Friendly or some other such evil thing to "enhance" my DVD player on my PC when playing a movie DVD on my PC. It broke my sound drivers, and not just for the stupid DVD Friendly player but for the DELL built in DVD player. I had a heck of a time getting this thing fixed. Disney similarly thinks they need to alter your default DVD player, mostly to hype web links.
Had this been my Dad's computer, he would have had to wait until I fixed it. I'm sure many wouldn't be able to fix these things without profession help.
They don't intend to break your computer, but it is the same driving force as spam, an urge to over-aggressively push their presence on to your computer.
Letter To Iran
One problem that has continued to vex us over our years of supporting my wife's parents' computers is my wife's sister. She has often popped in for a week or two and sprayed crap all over the hard drive, so to speak, before leaving. This includes supposed optimizers and helpers that do no such thing. Oh, and games a-plenty for her kids. And stupid buddy things. And so on.
There really is no way to prevent this interference, since the parents are never going to say no, much less know that it is happening at all. Maybe I'm just venting, because I have no suggestion for this problem apart from using an OS with some real security and all those other tricks that others in this thread are suggesting. I guess it's just something else to look out for until fratricide (sororicide?) is legalized.
My Mom got a new computer. I thought about doing the lindows thing but didn't think that she/Linux was ready. She got a Dell, I sent her a lynksys firewall to put behind the cable modem. I pre configured it at my place and then droped it in the post. She had no problems getting the wires hooked up. I told her to throw away the "internet cd" that COX sent her. I did have to explain that the internet was not on that cd. Once she was on-line I talked he through a VNC install, logged on to her system, cleared out the mess of icons on the desk top and download OpenOffice, Thunderbird and Firebird. Set it all up and now she is totally happy, not scared of the computer they way she is at work, what with all the virus warnings those IT guys send out. She is now at the point where she really enjoys the computer, understands what the Internet is, what the web is and what e-mail is. She may be ready to make the linux jump next and all the apps she knows and links will be there. By doing all of this up front, she never saw/missed IE or Outlook or Windows Media Player.
I wish it worked w.r.t my father. He always likes to visit sites that have flash animations. Of course, since I had disabled (i.e.not configured?) flash for Mozilla, he doesn't use it.
I have installed Ad aware, spybot S&D and ZA on my parents' computer, and asked him several times NOT to use IE. Guess what? he still uses IE/Outlook express.
Then every week I have to remind him NOT to open attachment x or stay away from application y. And, of course, listen to him complain that his computer has become very slow.
No use complaining: I chose to use Win 98 because I thought that was all he would need, now I'll have to wait till the next vacation (s) till I go back and install Linux. Let him complain for a few days, after all, once he can go back to doing he was doing before (sans the spyware/virus problem) why should it matter what OS he uses?
The other option is to use Win 2000 (Celeron 433 Mhz/ 160 MB RAM/ 4 gig HDD-- pretty old machine). Lets see....
Is it possible for inexperienced users to surf the net in safety?
:o)
In short, no and installing even Mandrake or SuSE Linux to provide a little security would provoke more phone calls than you would be able to mentally tolerate (I've been there!).... my advice, leave them to it and don't worry, they'll phone anyway
I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born - Ronald Reagan
I find my parents are willing to learn about new technology a whole lot more than we give them credit for.
My mum uses a PC with the obligatory Norton Antivirus, AdAware, Google Toolbar, Windows Updates set up to install automatically and a hardware firewall. She uses Outlook 2003 for mail, along with the rest of Office for the charity work she does in her spare time (she's retired).
Does this bother me? Not really. A willingness to learn has made it really easy to get across the main points of using a computer responsibly, and that's the key to it. Email usage, web browsing, Office macros - and she's never had a problem, and has also made a point of educating friends of hers.
So that's my tip for decent computing for parents - spread the knowledge. The more people actually understand what they're using, the better it is for everyone.
Setting them up with Firefox (or probably any other non-IE browser) is one of the best things you can do to protect them. Additionally, Thunderbird (or another non-Outlook mail client) would probably be a good idea.
Set them up with Spybot S&D to clean up stuff that does get through. If for some reason you haven't yet explained to them about not opening attachments, make sure you do.
I was reluctant to switch my mom away from IE because I was concerned about her having problems with non-IE websites. I installed Firebird on her computer (for my own use) this past X-mas when I was visiting. She asked me what the icon was and I told her it was a browser with pop-up blocking and immediately she was ready to switch. I explained about the possibility of incompatible websites and she didn't hesitate to say "I don't care about that. I'll use that IE for sites like that if I have to."
She's been really happy with Firebird. I feel kind of stupid for worrying that adding a new browser would unnecessarily complicate her life--it did exactly the opposite.
At the risk of people calling me an anti-MS zealot, let me just recommend having them use as little of Microsoft's software as possible. It's just bad news--too many exploits. You can go ahead make the argument that possibly Firefox has holes too that no one has bothered to exploit because of it's smaller marketshare. If that's true, then its smaller marketshare is just one more benefit.
After one of my nephews downloaded a file called "Pamela Anderson Fucking.exe" that totally hosed the system when run, I decided to junk Win 98, upgrade to Win XP, then lock down the system. Only I have the admin password. Everyone else's account has the least amount of privs that I could give them. FInally, I went out and Bought Norton Anti-virus and set it to auto update the virus definitions. Then I told them, "the next time I have to do this, I'm installing Linux. AND I'll install a network blocker to ensure you can only get to G rated web sites." Between those two things, the PC hasn't had any issues. I check regularly with AdAware.
I make them read /.
HI DAD!
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
I used to do what the OP did, give my parents old machines and clean them up for them. Up until November this worked OK, probably because they were on dial-up, but it was basically just an email/web access for them. In November, my parents decided to get DSL cause they had a deal where it was only $10 more than dial-up (and they no longer needed a second line, so its actually cheaper).
I kid you not, within 4 hours of getting online with DSL my mother had gotten a serious virus that Anti-virus was saying had infected kernel32.dll. OUCH. I didn't know exactly what had happened, but the computer was basically DOA until a certified geek could get working on it. I was NOT about to walk my parents through the process of formatting a drive and reinstalling the OS over the phone.
The earliest chance I had to look at this problem was when I came back for Christmas. So I told my parents this and suggested that they consider getting a new computer - and I recommended a Mac. My dad was totally against the idea, until he saw those new flat-panel iMacs. Then he actually thought they should get that OVER the eMac, which was much cheaper. =) That's what they came home with.
They took it home, set it up, and didn't once call me for help. They called with some internet setup problems, but it was actually the provider's server being flaky. My mom has been really happy with the new machine. She's talking with family via iChat, has figured out email and web just fine, and is even figuring out things I never really taught her. Just a couple weeks ago, she called asking me if she can burn more songs onto an iTunes CD she created. =) I had only introduced the programs like iTunes to her, but never really showed her how to use them, so this was rather surprising to me.
Anyways, they are much happier with the new machine, and honestly my mother in particular feels empowered by the fact that she can do this stuff. I would recommend that everyone at least consider the option. I know it's a bit more expensive, but chances are they'll get more out of the machine as well.
And if they're on broadband, get them a netgear/linksys/d-link NAT'ing router to add an additional layer. Tell them that if Zone Alarm pops up and asks them a question, and they're in doubt, click "NO."
Regardless of the OS, applications, security features, if your parents aren't very local, try to get them a laptop. Even if they use a monitor, mouse, keyboard and such, it's much easier working on it at home with more resources than in their den.
My Mom's in Hawaii, I'm in AZ. FedEx ground is cheap enough that if it can't be fixed in a 10 minute phone call I'll have her send it to me, get it spruced up, send it back. When she was out for Christmas, she brought it with and I updated things then also.
Next time, if we still go the Windows route, I'd put on XP Pro just for the remote access feature.
My parents are reasonably intelligent people. If they want to use a computer, I expect them to take care of it themselves. I'll answer intelligent questions, and when I'm home I'll occasionally sit down and help with major things (doing an upgrade to XP, Linux is not an option when your COGO solution is windows-only - and ironically, won't run under XP - back to 98...)
It works pretty well. I say "Smart people run AV software, Ad-Aware, install updates, and don't run programs sent to them in email."
They think "We're smart people" and do what I said in the first place, which saves me much aggravation.
---
Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Thats my trick with just about anyone I help out with computer trouble. Most of the problems you've mentioned are insidious and even passive computer users find the idea of marketing/tracking software making their computers unstable (or slow, or run out of memory) pretty unpalpable. Most of the time after explaining the problem users look pretty incredulous and ask the most basic question: why? Damn right, why.
Anyhow by then its something like a personal attack on them. Give them a copy of Mozilla, Spybot, AVG set them to update themsevles where possible and things will be a little better (at least they will gain a little bit of a distrust of software, thats a start).
Quack, quack.
1. Sending email.
;)
2. Instant messaging.
3. Creating a document for printing.
4. Balancing their check books.
5. Browsing the internet.
6. Managing digital pictures.
7. Amusing themselves with various games.
Purchase a user friendly distrobution of Linux such as SuSE or Mandrake or any other flavor you may like. All of the above should be easily accomplished with such. Install it and sleep better at night knowing that even if your mom saves your_document.pif from Saul in Arabia she can click on it till she is blue in the face it still wont run.
I recently put together some salvaged parts I had laying around and built a box for my mom. She has been running SuSE 9.0 for almost a year now and I haven't had to fix anything. (knock on wood)
I used to be running all over the damn place fixing PC's. Virus, Spyware, worms, pop ups not to mention XP corrupting drives etc. I converted everyone to linux desktops a few months ago and now everything is just skippy. Oh and don't start in with it is to hard to learn. If you met this one couple I installed it for you would see just how stupid a argument this is. Both of these people are about as smart as a post, they have no problem at all using a
pre-configured linux machine.
Got Code?
Well, first off, If you're parents are running 2k or xp, group policy is your friend. In there you can prohibit anything you want. Remove all shortcuts to IE and install Mozilla Firefox. I've used it since it came out and I haven't touched IE. Nothing gets installed oor downloaded without you telling it to in Firefox, unlike IE that autodownloads everything! IF you have a spare computer sitting around, throw linux on it and set up iptables. Make this the firewall for your computer(s). Only let simple things like http, pop3, named, smtp, 5190 (everyone likes AIM), etc. Hope that helps a little
I tried to setup a limited user account for windows after I installed all the software for someone, and it was so wonderful. They could not play several games without being an administrator and the viruses and spyware still were able to be installed easily for all users on the computer. Then I installed Linux for them, set them up with access to what they need, and they were so much happier, they didn't know their computer could go so fast... Linux and other alternative operating systems engineered correctly are the only way to stop the viruses, spyware, unwanted software, and so on. Its as simple as that. Windows isn't designed for people to use.
Teach the user to use Mozilla for browsing, e-mail and newsgroups.
"Tell them to buy an iMac. It's especially built for idi-" (long pause) "for mommies and daddies."
Linux works great for two type of parents:
"Type 1": my parents need the computer for 3 simple tasks (email, browsing, word processing) and do not consider doing anything I have not explicitely shown to them. Linux+mozilla+open office works great with them and honestly they don't even know what they are using.
My brother is "type 2", he performs more advanced taks but he hates administration and is very scared of viruses and worms: he is now very happy with a dual boot, he uses linux for as long as he can, and boots up in windows for the occasional complex microsoft word/excel file.
With both I am very happy to solve their problem by remote console access.
"Type 3" is the more adventurous and yet clouless relative, he needs lots of help but still wants to play around and does not perceive the dangers. He is going to want windows. For those all you need is a lot of love.
I follow some good advice in this matter. If they don't get on the computer, they can't screw it up :^)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
People like to joke about the free Unix-like OSes not being "ready for the desktop" but if the alternative is Windows (?!), they're sure as hell readier.
When the computer gets old, steer 'em toward a Mac. But until then, if they're not computer experts, Linux 'em. Or if they need to stay with Windows for legacy concerns (e.g. someone takes their work home with them) then get 'em a second cheap computer. One for the legacy stuff, and one for internet and everything else.
If they resist, then just don't help them. If they're forced to become computer experts themselves, then they might be able to learn how to use Windows safely. I have seen Windows systems that stayed pretty clean, but they were used by engineers who knew they were responsible for their computer's problems.
Lock their machine down entirely with group policy OR get a mac. I have my girlfriend setup with all the popblockers, virus scanners etc. However i tried something different which does work if you make the person do this (2k & XP only. Set them up 2 windows accounts one that only has guest privilages and one thats an administrator. Make them use the guest account unless they absoltely NEED to install something, and allow them to use the admin. WOrks great on girlfriends :)
I setup a WinXP box and set my parents up as "User". I would suggest using remote administration software like UltraVNC. I actually created little link that says "Something is wrong" and they click on it and it does a reverse connect from their machine (getting around the NAT on their router, no need to open a security risk) and connects to a VNC client in listen mode on my machine.
It's always surprising when a desktop just pops up in a window on my computer, esp when I'm on thehun.net, but there's no mistaking who it is or if there is a problem or not. Thank god they can't see MY screen.
I usually get a phone call 5 seconds later with a message of "sorry it was a mistake" or "yeah, X won't install." where X = Kazaa or some other P2P app.
On the other hand, I'd be interested in hearing what kinds of monitoring (packet sniffing) people do on their parent's machines to make sure they aren't cheating on each other or younger siblings aren't goofing around with Yahoo/AIM/ICQ/ETC. I'm not so much interested in the privacy issues as I am in finding out who "bigcack4u" is on my mom/sister's Yahoo friends list.
They've got a router. I've got a router. Is it still possible to establish a VNC between our two PCs so I can check up on their system?
Thanks...
My dad was having problems recently - apparently ActiveX got hosed because a cow-irker unplugged a USB drive without unmounting it first. Now IE6 is broken. I can't explain why ...
...
Anyway, he's spent days trying to remedy the problem. I had the fortune of dropping a Knoppix live CD on his desk about a week ago, and this incident actually motivated him to try it out. He's cautious, because his business survives on his PCs. He can't afford to have them down for substantial time. The Knoppix "try before you commit" concept was well received, and that was the last real barrier keeping him from trying Linux.
If I can get him switched over to *any* Linux distro, I won't have to listen to the monthly stories about why he had to reload XP again. That'll cut down on my therapy bills
Rules of educating someone:
The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
My parents (not in same household, as me or as each other) ask me about computer stuff sometimes, but do different things with that information.
...), but for the most part, they works well. Cheap laser printer from Samsung, Bang, works.
;))
... he ignores the virus warnings, because none of the several anti-virus programs he's put on seem to fully cleanse his PC. The machine crashes frequently with Windows 98, but he thinks about like I do of Windows XP's required registration stuff. (On another one of his machines, a laptop that came pre-loaded with XP, it asks you to register every time you start up; he's tried to register several times, to no avail. It works fine other than that, though, so it seems less broken than if that part *did* work!) I pointed out to him that this could mean he's sending personal documents all over the internet, that his machine could be a zombie for DoSes, that he's probably spreading viruses to everyone with Windows in his address book. He sort of shrugs and winces, and every few months says "Y'know, maybe you're right and Apple is the way to go ..." Twice a year, he pays some local guy to expunge viruses -- if he'd just save the money from that, he could better justify getting an iBook or Powerbook and not worrying about those things so much. His Compaq laptop (my advice had been "OK, if you're going to get an Intel-type laptop, just make sure to avoid Compaq!" was of course studiously ignored ;)) has had numerous hardware problems, compounded by inadequate repair service and piss-poor customer service. What I should do is tell him "OK, just make sure not to get an Apple ..."
1) When my mom needed a computer for college homework, around the time my sister decided my cast-off P100 was not sufficient and *she* needed a college computer, too, I told her that the smartest thing to do was get an iBook, because Apples are well-built and have a better-than-Windows interface. Or maybe I suggested it first to my sister, point is the same -- soon *they* both had iBooks, and since I was looking for a laptop at the time and was likely to be Mom's tech support (however woefully unequipped I am for that), I ended up getting one too. So, three iBooks, extra memory soon in sister's and mine (it was cheap! $35 for 256 megs, 3 years ago), airport card in Mom's and mine. (Sister didn't need it as much, college ethernet etc.)
All three of them are still working great, have been updated infrequently but without incident, no virus problems, no dead screens, etc. The occasional lockup, the occasional crash (only on my machine that I know of), but mostly, good workhorses. Once in a while my mom calls to complain that her Mozilla icon has disappeared (why? I do not understand what could have happened to it -- couldn't have gotten far on foot
It's not my *favorite* laptop -- I dislike the keyboard, esp. the lack of a real page-up / page-down key, among other shortcomings -- but it seems the most robust. Strong hinge, a screen that's survived some rough treatment, a battery that's on the way out but still working as well as one can expect in a 3-year-old battery.
(The other reason it's not my favorite is that I like Fluxbox, KDE and Gnome at least as well as I do OS X, and Linux distros come with a lot more included software that I actually use -- so I like the Toshiba I'm typing on more than I do the iBook; maybe I'll put Linux on the iBook and like it better
2) Dad, on the other hand, pays for cheap, low-end computers, then keeps paying and paying and paying
Ah, well.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Where I work, we use Deep Freeze to keep people from installing unwanted software. You can freeze some sections of the hard drive (such as C:\windows), and unfreeze others. I find it useful to have an unfrozen D:, and set "my documents" etc to point somewhere there.
.EXE or .ZIP files (and a special username to download the ones they need). That gives me SSH access to their network, a way to have it call my server to update dynamic IP's, and I can tunnel VNC as needed. Email could also be fetched through here and stripped of nasties using mailscanner/spamassassin/others
Of course, this doesn't work well with XP (needs updates for those nasty worms), but in that case you'd just have to make your family members underprivileged users.
My aunt is getting a new computer and High Speed. I'm putting strong consideration into turning their old box into a 'nix server/firewall... maybe with a proxy that blocks
This thing can be an ie users best friend, Spyware Blaster it blocks malicious active X scripts while allowing good ones through, which makes it less frusterating than just turning off active x all together (just remember to update often!). If anything does get through its nothing that a good spybot scan wont get rid of, just teach em to update and scan monthly and theyll be cool but not fools.
One way to deal with it is simply to move to a different continent. Worked for me - I get no support calls at all. Of course, now I have to learn Japanese, but it's a small price to pay :)
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
I find disabling the ON button helps a lot!
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are not the responsiblity of the user, as I probably stole them anyway
Make them a Windows account without Administrator priveleges
HOW'S MY POSTING? CALL 1-800-POSTING
I bought my folks a PC. They used it for approximately 4 weeks. Then they said, "you keep it, its too complicated". :)
So i got the PC, i bought them a nice filing cabinet, pens, paper and calculator etc. If they want something typed out, they can ask me, but this isnt often.
i say dont protect their PC's, protect them from PC's
I just install Windows Me, it crashes before they have any time to screw things up.
Really though, well my parents don't use PCs, my sister does and she has this problem. I pretty much installed some spyware removal software, and every once in a while I run it. If I see anything running in the taskbar I just close it. I don't expect her to have a perfect PC, but every time I remove the software there's less of it, so I think she's learning on her own. Teaching a person how to pick up on spy ware usually doesn't work, they just have to experience it for themselves, then they start to catch on (well at least my sister did) and learn through trial and error. If you just restrict them from being able to do anything, or install some program like bull guard, they'll just learn how to remove that program since it's not letting them install the spyware (if they try to install something, and it has spyware with it or whatever, then like they're gonna see that the program is blocking it and they will think it's probably broken or something and disable it.)
I would have switched my mum's computer to linux a long time ago (I've threatened to do so on several occassions) except she needs to run a few windows programs that don't have decent Linux replacements available (Family Tree Maker, being one). No, I don't consider running under Wine a viable alternative. I'm stubborn that way.
At least I switched her from MS Office to OpenOffice.org and replaced IE and Outlook with the Mozilla stuff.
-- Will program for bandwidth
First, SuSE 7.0 until it EOLed.
Then FreeBSD 4-STABLE, still with modem.
Now: ADSL behind a NATing wireless router.
Still FreeBSD (4.9p3).
And don't give them root, of course.
No breakins, no backdoors, no dialers, no malware and no viruses and other BS for 4 years.
How would I admin windoze for my parents for free, when I don't even like to do that for money ?
Rainer
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
http://www.deadtroll.com/video/parents.html
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
i have the same issue with my parents pc.
i see all the money dad spends on firewalls and av software only to still have problems.
i've of course discussed many times moving to something like mandrake for their desktop but windows is just so entrenched in peoples minds it's hard to make the leap, plus the learning curve.
also with ms products so entrenched, although in many cases there may be equivalents, i think again it's the learning curve as well as the "name" that makes it hard to make the switch.
I would recommend getting NIS (Norton Internet Security), it will help keep the system free of errornious programs attempting to access the internet, or install XP or 2000 and advise your parents not to log into the admin account unless they want to install something.
my grandma is so paraniod im going to screw up her machine. Calm Down grandma Im going to fix the slowness issues you keep complaining about. then she complains after I fix it I broke it becouse i took away some spyware bloat ware prog she was using.
But i do the same thing as with the machines i admin, i get used to unloading ghosted images of the drive. I mean, 5 minutes about once every month really isnt so bad. If its seriously a problem with some of our /.'ers parents, id recommend Deep Freeze, it keeps the little buggers around the schools i admin at bay.
My mother used to play with windows 98 and she only used it for webchat and e-mails. No need to say the box had to be formated every month or so and she was getting really pissed off about loosing all of her e-mails with those stupid chain letters and cute powerpoint presentations. Anyway, i got her to buy an iMac (350mhz, slot load), but MacOS 9(?) really sucked. The lack of good e-mail clients, browser (IE - blergh) and IM didnt help either (oh.. and that horrible mouse). So i took her old pc and loaded XP on it. Same experience as 98. Last resort was Suse 9. No complains so far. OpenOffice + Firefox + KMail + Kopete do the trick with NO maintenance needed. Whenever something odd happens, or she needs something upgraded, just ssh in and do your stuff. Simple. The remote vnc with e-mail invitations also helps. Maybe Lindows/Xandros/Mandrake would do the trick, but im more familiar with Suse anyway.
"This is ad-aware. Watch what I click on. See how it scans for awhile? Then you click this, and the bad stuff goes away. Do this every week."
I also recently had to move to firefox on my neighbor's machine I built for him because they were still getting hit pretty bad (I think it was his kids mostly causing it). Originally I had him on Avant Browser, which is like IE with some popup control and tabbed browsing, but the latest round of spyware DELETED IT. I told him to call me back if it had any problems viewing sites, so far haven't heard a peep about it.
Is it just me or is spyware/malware getting much nastier lately? It used to just be the popup servers and phony search bars/homepage hijacks, but in the last 2 months I've seen programs that eject the cd, programs that close any browser window that it detects the name of a spyware removal tool in, programs that close or even delete any non-IE browser you run or install, programs that close or delete any anti-spyware utility you run or try to install, "spyware removers" that are spyware, etc.
How the hell is everyone in congress avoiding this crap on their computers? You'd think at least some of them would have home PCs that are as bad as the average broadband subscriber I talk to.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
Assuming you are using some recent derivative of windows, lock down the basic users to the point they cant do much damage..
Then have them call you when they buy new stuff so you can check it out first, then install it for them...
Won't stop all problems but it will help...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Why not install a user-friendly Linux distro on the computer? That would make virii a non-issue.
I don't have this problem anymore. My parents fired me, and outsourced to India. Their new son/tech support guy's name is Kallasalapahippimobipi Nassahappapinohisohef.
One of the mistakes of the young is not listening to the older people. If they say something to you, listen. Chances are they've been through something and will tell you something worth hearing.
My Dad updates his computer just fine. I'm constantly shocked when I call him and find out he's changed his passwords, updated virus defs, and downloaded patches, and all these things I assume he couldn't do, just fine without asking anybody.
I have had to drag him kicking and screaming every 3 years from Win98 -> Win2000 -> WinXP. He really hates a new O/S. But he maintains it as well as anybody.
So, I told them that they can video-chat with their only granddaughter if they go over to the Apple Retail Store two towns from their house. They went to the store. My family and I gathered 'round the iSight. And we video-chatted. First time they'd seen her in over a year.
There are two benefits here. The obvious one is that sooner or later, if we keep doing this, they will think "Oooh, shiny!" and buy something Apple, thus solving the question at hand. The less obvious one is that at least for the duration of their trip to and from the Apple Retail Store, I can be assured of not getting any calls about something or other being busted on their PC.
Step 2, they never got hooked on an MS program for mail, and for some reason have gravitated towards Netscape 7 (and 6, and 4 before that). My father says he's never really liked IE. Who am I to question?
My mother doesn't do much more than run her Avon business, surf the web, do email and IM on her computer. Plus little games, nothing that comes from offbeat sources. My father does a little more, but again, doesn't stray into unclean areas of the intarweb. Dad's relatively self-sufficient, on the rare occasions mom needs help, little brother knows about it before she does. They pretty much take care of themselves.
My sister is another case. She's in college and when we got her a PC 3 years ago, I gave her explicit instructions to not let anyone touch it. Didn't even give her the Admin password (2K Pro). Being only 2 hours away, I could support her on a 24 hour or less turnaround time. College dorm "techs" are clueless. She did fine for 2 years, then this fall got hit in all the worm activity as a somewhat innocent bystander. Not sure exactly what happened. So we cleaned that up on her first break of the semester and all is well. Set her up with MS's auto-update and things are running smooth there. She tends to check with me before doing anything that might endanger her system.
I do what I can to help my parents out with their computer. My mother is paranoid enough that she only uses what's been taught to her. If anything pops up or looks unusual, she has me take a look at it. My father, on the other hand, does his own thing. With his love for porn, I am always coming across The Bad Things on his computer. He tries to blame my 'helpless' mother, but I know it's his negligence that causes the computer to become infected or trashed with unwanted things. His job keeps him out of town half the year, and it's when he's out of town that the computer is actually safe. Fun times.
Some of us do not even have parents, you insensitive clod!
I'd do all that standard stuff -- virus checks, updates, spyware blockers, and so on --, but if someone wants me to be responsible for the security of their box, I will refuse if they want to run Windows. Linux or MacOS X, sure. For Windows, they'll have to hire someone and pay the price.
I don't mean to be ideological about this, it's just that good security is an achievable goal on Linux and OSX boxen, it isn't really that hard if you know what to do about it, and I know what I would do. For Windows, there are just too many flaws and too many attacks out there in the wild, and I cannot in good conscience tell someone that I'm making their box safe. Maybe someone else can, but I won't try to do it for free.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
I had to laugh when I read the original post:
"I assume that many Slashdot readers must serve as the IT staff for their parents."
Many of us are the IT staff for our kids! And I don't mean 4 year olds, I'm talking teenagers. Not all teenagers are as computer literate as we'd like to think -- my older step-kids, 11 and 15, have been exposed to tons of computer technology over the past 9 years, but still have much less knowledge than I did at age 10 (1980). I know 60 year old men who know more than young "geeks" that work for me in IT
I think a lot of it has to do with personal interest and motivation. For most average users, they just want to do what they need to do and don't care about Windows or Mac OS X. A computer that needs constant attention from an IT guy is a less useful computer
I'm not trying to push buying a Mac, but this is exactly why I switched to an iMac for home a year ago. It was comparable in price to an equivalent PC from several other manufacturers (HP, Sony, Dell, etc.), but I haven't had nearly the OS problems that I've had with the same kids using a PC. I just got sick of spending 8+ hours per month at home fixing the same I.T. problems we see at work.
My kids generally get my old machines, too. My Mom doesn't just because she's not that interested in it.
It's honestly easier to guide their use of the iMac because I'm home, so if I gave another family member (Mom, brothers, sisters, etc.) a computer, it probably wouldn't be a Mac. The biggest problem is when you look for software and the vast majority of the software is not compatible with the Mac at all. It's too easy for a newbie to buy a quickie piece of software at Walgreens and never realize it's not Mac compatible -- then they get mad at the fact that they have a Mac.
With my kids, I just steer them in the right direction when we're shopping for software. We've been able to do all of our home stuff on our Macs (iMac and PowerBook G4), and about 85% of my I.T. stuff on my Macs (some I.T. things are easier in UNIX/Linux than on Windows, which is nice).
Protection of the innocent is a non-issue on a Mac because I'm a dedicated parent. I don't need filter software, I just know what they're doing and control access times. The rest of the crap we deal with on Windows every day is non-existent in the Mac world.
Yeah, it's nice being a Mac-owning parent...
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My dad recently called me and asked: What do you prefer? MPEG1 or divX when I encode the video sequences?
So I think the question is wasted on me.
However - my position towards my kids have always been: No restrictions except religious and extreme websites.
They have yet to disappoint me.
Set them up an account with limited access. If they can't install anything, they're not going to get spyware.
I would prefer giving them Macs or Linux boxes, but saying that would be redundant, so...
Let them run Windows if they want to... Just set up a backup image of a pristine system and automate reloading it daily. They can keep data on a separate disk or partition if they want to. They'll learn how to do that quickly enough the first few times they lose something to the daily cleanup.
Every so often you install the security updates and re-image the disk. Voila, no problem.
Haven't read through all of the replies yet, but the one thing I did was to get a Cable/DSL Modem router (Linksys).
My daughter and her husband have PC's, and they are hooked up with a cable/dsl modem router, and it saved their tails. Along with up to date virus software.
If they're just surfing the net, then Linux is probably ideal. Maybe even use a CD based distro.
If they must run Windows, what you have to do depends on how they're fucking it up. If they're deliberately doing dumb shit, like opening attachments they shouldn't, you'll have to educate them. If they're getting tricked by shifty web sites, you can just set IE's default security zone to High (and manually tweak it for good measure), or use Mozilla and tweak it's config file (there's a lot more options you can tweak by hand than you can see in the Config dialog).
Failing that, you'll have to see an admin of a large Windows site, and find out about Group Policy. Or Google it. It's been years since I've messed with that stuff, but I think you can lock it down so far as to only allow EXEs you specify to be run. That of course means you'll have to log on remotely or make a house call every time they want to do something new.
And make sure they're not running as an admin (if it's not an NT based Windows, get one, even if it's NT4).
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
In a day and age where even the most hardened IT junky can fall prey to malware, I don't think it is possible to keep an inexperienced user safe. In 6 years on the net running no antivirus software, I have been infected with 3 trojans, and two virii. I do run antivirus software now though. My suggestion to keep the average baby boomer safe on the net, install a flavor of *nix for them. I'm not sure about your folks, but my father just uses the net for pr0n, IM's, and the odd email. Most standard out of the box Linux distros can handle that, with little or no frustration. It also safeguards them from 90% of malware out there.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
...and during a visit back to see my folks, I gave my dad a new computer. The man can write assembler, but he just doesn't "get" Windows, so I figured I'd save myself trouble and bought/installed GoBack with Windows 2000. The idea was, if he got into trouble, I could always instruct him to "go back". Heh.
Well, that computer had constant booting and corruption issues. I spent a few hours a week, every week, on the phone with him trying to diagnose why the problems were happening. I didn't know if it was bad drivers, a bad trace on the motherboard, a flaky drive controller, or what -- but after every call, I would think "thank goodness I installed GoBack!"
I'm sure you can see this coming. After months of this, I went out for another visit, and I removed GoBack. Sure enough, THE HARD DRIVE PROBLEMS STOPPED. I spent maybe an hour on the phone with him in the six months following.
Based on that, and on other, similar experiences, I believe the answer is a resounding no, an experienced user cannot surf the web safely with MS, and it's not just because of viruses and whatnot -- it's because even the programs that purport to help you (in my experience, GoBack and Norton's CrashGuard are the two worst offenders) can hurt you.
I installed WinXP with automatic-updates, enabled winXP Firewall, Norton Antivirus, and gave my mom a regular user account. I gave her the administrator password should she ever need it, but she would have to log in as Administrator (which is a lot of work) to do any damage. That system has been up and running stable for 2+ years.
Mom used to have an Administrator account, but after the 2nd virus (which 9 times out of 10 exploits user stupidity) I took away her access. Now she can't break the computer even if she wanted to. Go ahead, open all the attachments you like. "cool_song.mp3.exe" sounds awesome - open it up! Someone loves you? Better run that executable and find out what they have to say. Bring it on virii kiddies. My Mom is immune.
That's because some people just want to USE a computer and not have to get an associate's degree in Windows Security Hole Management and Script Kiddie Defense just to own one.
All of the people in my office building are the same way. They just want the computers to help them do their jobs. They don't have time to be computer experts. Even though the Email attachment says 'funny song - click me!', they don't completely understand it could be a virus or a trojan.
Constant Vigilence!! [pounds fist on table] Take Moody's advice!
...At the people at WalMart and Sam's buying "Popup Ad Stopper!!!" Windows users, bah! No wonder they're so unhappy. All along, they could've either:
a)Downloaded a free pop-up blocker(That doesn't have spyware)
b)Use Mozilla Firebird
or c)Move to an Operating System that Doesn't Suck
When I lived with my parents the only protecting I did was to hide my porn in C:\windows\system\important\secure\
When my Dad got his first computer, he listened to my brother instead of me so he ended up with a PC instead of the Mac I recommended (and have). He said:
"Why does someone who work with Windows all day have Macs at home?"
"For the same reason that someone who shovels out stables takes a shower at the end of the day."
Getting Windows (XP, at least) to automatically update itself and then apply the updates is fairly easy, once you know which registry key to edit and the values needed for the fields in that key. But I have had no such luck with respect to Symantec's Norton Anti-virus (NAV).
Shortly after I configured most of the Windows XP PC's in our office to update XP automatically at 4 AM every day, I realized that Symantec LiveUpdate (the software that handles the updating of NAV executables and NAV virus definitions) was also updating NAV every day at that very time by downloading the latest virus definitions. I cannot determine whether NAV actually recognizes and applies the downloaded definitions, however, due to a discrepancy in NAV itself. The discrepany arises between a NAV data file and the NAV GUI.
After making the automatic downloads, Symantec LiveUpdate updates a file whose name I cannot remember exactly -- "defn.dat" or something similiar. I also cannot remember the directory in which this file lives -- something like "C:\Application Data\Symantec\Common Files\VirusDef\". A date in that file matches the date on which the most recent definitions were downloaded (suggesting that NAV recognizes the most recent definitions), but when I execute the GUI part of NAV (by double-clicking on the NAV icon), the GUI part indicates that NAV does not recognize the latest definitions or has not applied them.
Does anyone know how to determine for sure that NAV recognizes and applies the latest definitions it has automatically downloaded? Is the information in the GUI part merely buggy?
BTW, nothing in the NAV documentation states that NAV would automatically download definitions if Windows were configured to make automatic Windows updates. Apparently some undocumented features are desirable after all.
A lawyer & digital forensics examiner. Also an expert on open source software (OSS).
Her windows kept borking and being 1600 miles away made tech support a bit difficult.
As all she does is surf the web, check mail, and occasionally print things out, Linux was the perfect solution for me.
I installed a Mandrake Distro, set up Evolution, and had the thing connect when it needed to. There was only 1 problem over 2 years - and that was when she somehow deleted a configuration file in Evolution. I sshed in, scped the missing file, changed the permissions so that it was read only, and there were never any other problems.
However, recently a new machine was purchased and my brother helped them set up Windows XP. He's now got tech support and I'm clean and free, as I've never used XP and only seen it run twice.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Gave my parents an iMac, installed Timbuktu (remote control software) on it, and now I don't have to drive across town to help them with it. Their Windows-using friends are envious because they've never been hosed by a virus or worm.
"Clean up the air and treat the animals fair" - Captain Beefheart
Install XP, Win2K, whatever... anything that has real permissions.
:-)
Setup your parents as limited users, but create a user called 'Installation' that has Administrative rights.
Make sure the visual theme for 'Installation' is so horrid to use (high contrast works well usually) that they will never accidentally use it. Lock down the theme with a policy.
Review their software and remove bad software that requires root access (ie, Administrative rights) to run.
Install nonMS alternatives for the core net Apps. Install alternatives for IM apps if necessary. Install alternatives for major content apps (like QT or Real) if you don't want them installing it themselves.
In other words, give them the power to install things, but make it inconvenient, and make sure that they don't have to install much themselves because you already covered all the bases with software you approve of.
That's my solution. And my Mom is still spyware and virus free for two years, with only a dozen or so 'help!' calls. Father's computer is, unfortunately, less healthy... but he bought a Compaq against my recommendation, so I give it up as a loss.
"I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
It's probably been said already, but the best thing I ever did for my parents' computers was to install Firefox and hide the IE icon.
I gave my mom a Mobilon Tripad with some extra memory and some applications. She's happy as a clam because the touch screen is very intuitive, it has Solitaire and Tetris and basic web access on it, and oon my side nobody will ever bother writing a virus for it. Also, it's very abuse-proof since it doesn't have a hard drive.
Mac family since 1990. I've been the de facto tech since 1998. 1 virus - word macro. nothing else.
IE theme for Mozilla. This might even be parent proof.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
It's relatively simple to keep your parents surfing in safety. As many people have already mentioned, Firefox is a good start. But that's not where you need to stop. While Thunderbird is stil in alpha, it makes a nice email client, and has fewer glaring security holes than some of the more popular clients.
But where everything comes together is with the last two important pieces of software. I used to be a strong supporter of The Proxomitron, but it's very difficult to find now, and is no longer supported, so I've switched over to Privoxy which runs on most platforms, incidentally.
Privoxy is a local proxy that does filtering on all web content that you view, removing things like some ads, and all unrequested pop-ups. It filters virtually all malicious content I have seen.
A personal firewall is important to have now, and there are some reasonable free ones around. The ones I like take a bit of configuration, but they sure beat Zone Alarm. The two I use are Kerio Personal Firewall and Sygate Personal Firewall.
Sadly, both these products used to be completely free, but the same is no longer completely true.
Essentially, it is important to use a good browser, mail client, local proxy and firewall. With those in place a virus scanner is often somewhat redundant, though one of those might be a good idea too.
On the spam prevention front, I find Popfile to be an invaluable tool. It is, however, a wee bit advanced. I suspect that most parents wouldn't quite grok it. I've heard good things about SpamAssassin, though, and it might be worth the effort of teaching parents.
Ghost, its your best freind.
When they come to you with a fucked PC get them to save everything they want to keep onto a flash drive (documents and the sorts), for apps if they don't have the CD tough, most non-PC ppl can deal with that.
Idealy just blow the drive away and install Linux, if there is a 'political' issue do the folowing.
Partition the drive into partitions:
OS (5Gb Max)
Docs & Stuff (whats left)
And depending on they type of ghost setup a hidden FAT32 partition for ghost images (if your ghost recovery CD cant read NTFS). (3Gb should be plenty)
Install Winblows & all the other crap they want. Create an account with only user priviliges. Thats the one they use. Tell them to save everything on the Docs & Stuff drive and let them know that anything saved to the OS drive is at rish of being deleted if the PC plays up.
Once set up save the image.
Next time it fuckes up just reghost. They may lose setting and such what but thats the price to pay.
GPLv2: I want my rights, I want my phone call! DRM: What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak?
I'm currently suffering through maintaining a 2000 install for my mom. All she uses is MS Word and the web (primarily for a web-based email client). I wonder whether knoppix configured to automount the HD for storage would be sufficient?
Get a mac, running OSX. Walk away, for maybe two years at a time.
I moved away. 2000 miles.
My mom refused to get a Mac. My brother in law, an educational consultant specializing in Lotus Notes talked her out of getting a Mac.
Guess what? He talked himself into supporting his mother in law. SUCKER!
Fortunately, he's fairly clueful, and does a reasonably good job of keeping the machine's virus defs updated, and keeping spyware at bay. But I haven't convinced him yet on how Mozilla will save him many hours of headaches each week.
Oddly enough - the #1 problem seems to be ongoing issues with her crappy HP printer driver. Which is also the #1 issue with my wife's iMac! (seems as if the only way to fix it sometimes is to uninstall and reinstall the damn thing.) Note to self: next time, buy ANY printer brand but HP. well, last time it was buy any printer brand but Epson. hm.. . . .
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Securing the Windows PC isn't as hard as it sounds.
1. Turn on Internet Connection Firewall, close all ports (duh!)
2. Turn on Windows Auto Update
3. Change the Administrator user name
4. Change the Administrator password (don't give it to mom and dad.)
5. Create a user for mom and dad. DO NOT make that user an administrator or power user. That alone will ensure that they can't install software.
6. Use a Local Policy to disable ActiveX/Java/Flash (you can leave flash alone if you like.)
7. Install a virus scanner.
Doing these simple things will ensure the PC stays spyware/virus free. It's easy and the whole thing should take less than 20 minutes.
Optionally:
8. If you want to give your family the ability to install software, you can create a superuser icon that they would have to click to start the install.
9. Use TweakUI to provide an auto-login - since the user can't do anything anymore, that shouldn't hurt (make sure remote desktop is disabled for that user.)
10. Remove Run from the start menu. Remove Control Panel from the start menu.
11. Grant the user read-only rights to Program Files (this may break some apps that store temp files in their directory.)
12. Turn off Auto-CD insert (apps won't install anyway, but no reason to have an error reported.)
13. You could remove Outlook/Outlook Express and replace it with some other mail client. (At the very least, run the latest versions of Outlook XP/2003.)
13. Sit back and listen to the phone not ring.
---
"You're not balancing your internal energy with the environment." -Gary Busey
I believe it was Wes Borg who once said, "Next time they say that their computer isn't working, tell them it's broken. Tell them to give it to you to play with and to go out and buy an iMac. It's a computer especiall made for id....... um.... for Mommies and Daddies."
I'm not a Linux person, so mod me into oblivion if you want to. :P I run Windows, my parents run Windows. I had Linux/KDE at work, found the learning curve steep, and wouldn't want to put my parents through it.
The biggest problem I've had is in convincing them that viruses, security, etc., are a problem for them, and that they need to be worried (well, mostly Dad, since Mum tends to stay offline and play Tetris). I must be paranoid and scaremongering - after all, what kind of fool buys a UPS for his home PC?! If that's not tinfoil-hat-paranoid, what is? So trying to convince Dad that he should get one of his tech-literate friends (I live at the other end of the country) to sort him out with at least AV and firewall was, ultimately, futile.
Futile, that is, until one afternoon I found 7 emails in my inbox, all with the same size attachment, all from people Dad knows - none of whom have my address. Christ. Picked up the phone... "Dad, you have a virus."
Took a long time to convince him. Then another half an hour to determine that it was most likely Klez. Then three hours (on my phone bill) to talk him through downloading and running a disinfection tool. Throughout, I was getting anger and disbelief that it could possibly have happened to him, rants about the sort of people that would write this stuff (not just Klez, but Windows too!).... everything except, "I wish I'd installed that anti-virus software like you said..."
After all that was done, I'd had enough. So I laid down the law. "I've told you before to sort it out. If you'd had AV on there, this would not have happened. I will not do this again, and I will not support anything to do with this machine unless and until you get someone to install what I've told you to." (Felt great, talking to my Dad like he talked to me when I was 5!)
Took two days of refusing to talk about computers, during which time he was continually running the disinfection tool as all the people he'd infected re-infected him, but eventually he went out and bought Norton Internet Security, and got someone to set it all up. He still whinges about the cost, even though he sees it saving his ass every day - but at least now he pays attention when I say something is important.
I like Sygate Personal Firewall Pro. Set it up and before you hand of the PC, enable every application that you know needs access to the internet - including Mozilla. Then give the "just click no" mandate listed above. This way, nothing without permission will ever be able to communicate with the outside world.
Just be sure to enable some of the tricky ones - Windows Update, IM clients, etc. If they want an application to have access (mom installs Raphsody lets say) set up an appointment or VNC session to do the approval for her.
It's kept my family pretty virus free - along with auto-updates for virus scan, windows update, auto-defragmentation with Diskeeper, and auto-virus scanning twice a week.
Actually, their computers are in better shape then mine after the same time period. Perhaps I should hold myself to the same rules!
Excuse my speling.
Making The Bar Project
I recently set up my 82 year old mother with a PII and Mandrake Linux 9.2. The worst problem she has had is with the clogged SMTP server at the cheapo dialup ISP that I set her up with.
And she has done so for years. She isn't a computer geek. Never a virus or other problem with the Linux box in all this time. Every couple years I stop by and upgrade the thing with the latest and greatest RedHat. Next time it'll be Fedora. Here's a blurb I wrote up about it way back when.
1.Get good spec PC. (not big-box OEM full of big-box OEM crap but something with no bundled software)
:)
2.Install Windows XP on it.
3.Set up all the service packs, security patches and everything else.
4.Make Windows Update automaticly download all the latest service packs for everything.
5.Get rid of/hide Internet Explorer and Outlook Express.
6.Install a good virus checker like Norton and set it up to auto-update. This should stop most viruses, even if the parents are cluless enough to go out of the way to run a virus/worm/etc exe file, the virus checker will catch it and refuse to allow you to run it.
Plus, the virus checker "you have a virus" window should be enough to warn even the most cluless newbies that this program is bad.
7.Install Firefox, Thunderbird & OpenOffice and configure them all in their most secure modes (i.e. turn on popup blocking etc). Also, configure Mozilla Junk Mail filters.
8.If they want a media player, install something thats good, wont screw up their system (i.e. NOT RealPlayer/Windows Media/etc) and that can play the media files they want to play.
9.Install good programs to catch Spyware as well as programs to catch system problems (something like Norton SystemWorks does a good job there)
and 10.Educate them
IMO, the 5 biggest problems non-experts face when it comes to the Internet are:
1.Giving out personal details online when they shouldnt/Identify Theft (e.g. its ok to give your Credit Card number to amazon.com but its not ok to give it to hackerz.ru)
2.Viruses, Worms and Trojan Horses & Spyware (i.e. its NOT ok to run strange files that you dont recognize and dont know. And clicking yes on that "Do you want to install this ActiveX Cotnrol from SpywareCorp.Com" dialog is definatly NOT a good idea)
3.Scams and Fraud (That person who claims to be from nigeria and claims to have lots of money doesnt actually have any money and is trying to scam you. Also, that email claiming to be from your bank is NOT from your bank and is trying to scam you out of your username and password so they can steal all your money. And buying this "Hot Stock" WONT make you rich, it will only make the person telling you to buy it rich.)
4.Spam (No, buying this pill from this internet pharmacy located god-knows-where WONT make your penis any larger. And anyhow, having a larger penis doesnt make one shred of difference. Also, playing this online casino WONT make you rich.)
5.Security of private information, emails, chat etc. (Regular email can be read by anyone, start using Encryption to make your mail hard to read.)
If we can educate Internet newbies about these 5 things, the Internet as a whole will be a better place
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
my parents have a media pc and use it for recording because they cant figure out how to work thier vcr... if my mom misses dr phil i have to hear her problems on the phone... so i am motivated to keep their computer running. after spending most of my visits home reformating their hard drives and reinstalling everything i have come up with the following solution. I have set up vnc on their machine and i have the password to their router. i log in to their router, open the port for vnc and take care of what needs to happen. i also installed google toobar for popups. unfortuanetly i cant have them use a user account with fewer privleges because they need the media center functions which wont record if you are not admin. my next move is to use something to take an image of thier hard drive they can just install. they have a recordable DVD so i am looking into this as a possability. last time i went home thier pc had a ton of spyware. teach them a system for saving files in a certian place allways. that way it is easy to get everything back to normal once you have to reformat. if u can afford osx. then by all means do so. my wife uses it.
this is not a Sig.
Over the last few years, it seems like my 11 year old managed to install every version of spyware that existed.
I used have to run ad aware, spybot s&d, and av software once a week at least.
Solution was (*IS*) linux.
OPEN SOURCCE, Separate log-ins, file based perms, oPEN oFFICE,, THE GIMP..
It works real well at home...
(now if they'd only switch at the office)
My in-laws had heaps of virus problems with their machine and are basically clueless. Given how little they actually need to do on their machine I gave up rescuing them. I installed Mandrake and put four icons on the desktop -> internet (mozilla) email (kmail) documents (open office writer) and quicken (quicken with codeweavers wine). The machine autologs into kde as their one "user" and automatically restarts on X crash etc. I log in remotely once per month with root privileges and do any security upgrades needed. They have no idea what is actually happening, they are just happy it doesn't have the problems it used to have.
Of course everyone else's parents may have different requirements but that worked nicely for me, and I suspect most clueless users' requirements don't go beyond that.
When I moved out I gave them my hardware firewall, and made sure everyone was using Mozilla, and they use my ISPs webmail service instead of a client that runs locally. There are 4 computers in that house, all Windows (98SE, ME, 2 * XP), and none of the users know/care about worms, viruses, or spyware. I check up on them when I visit, none of them have had any problems yet.
Don't let them onto the Internet.
The vast majority of problems stem from the fact that they try to do something that is wrong/illegal/dangerous, but then don't know how to undo it, and get more flustered than when they began. And frankly, I don't need the sh!t that goes with my grandad calling me and saying, "I opened this cute email and my computer won't run anymore!" He can't even use Microsoft Word properly!
I pursuaded my uncle, who also owns a business, to go with Apple (Power Mac G5 1.6GHz) as a solution to his Wintel PC problems. He is REALLY happy, no virii to worry about, no one hacking into his computer (it happened to him a couple of times). He said that learning Mac OS X is different than Windows, but he likes the idea of having a 'Home' directory where everything is stored. He had a lot of PC programs that he liked, I told him to buy the Macinotsh equivalents by the same vendors (Adobe Photoshop Elements, Micro$oft Office X), again, he's happy, or wait for Virtual PC for the G5. The best part of the new Power Mac is that there are no more crashes, no more calling me for help, and everything he needs, CD Burner, external USB memory card reader (for digital camera), external USB floppy disk drive (for older digital camera), new printer and scanner (USB), all work flawlessly and FAST without crashes. Yes, he was little sticker shocked when he purchased the Apple 20 inch Cinema display, but after he used it for a week, he was hooked - ALL THAT SCREEN REAL ESTATE. Also, he loves Safari and Mozilla after I configured them to block POP-UPS. Cudos for Mozilla allowing me to reject images loading from the non-originating server - no more flashy animated GIF advertisements, and best of all, no more trojan horse windows spyware software self-installing.
She could not keep her computer safe herself (winxp)
so I put her on fedora, made it auto-update every night.
I put together some scripts for her digital camera.
set her up with netscape 7 for checking her aol e-mail
haven't had to fix anything since she forgot her login/password a while ago... it's so much better than checking it for spyware/viruses/fragmentation once a week.
I learnt from painful experience is that it's best to let parents learn to handle their machines themselves. Do not raise them to depend on you. That's the solution. Let them get a clue about what's going on and how to solve problems themselves. It's the only way :|
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
Like you, my parents usually get the "hand me down" computer. I installed XP, all current updates, patches. Antivirus is installed, and password protected, so it can't be easily turned off. Pop up blocker, free firewall (dialup user), all unused ports disabled, etc. As for outlook, they know never to open anything from anyone. Heck, my dad even sends ME email, wanting to know if it is ok or not LOL.......at least he's trained ;)
After my mother's mishap with Windows ME and the Windows directory (she has happy fingers when it comes to deleting things), I encouraged her to upgrade to Windows XP for "added functionality and stability". Truth is...I upgraded her so I could setup group policy on her machine...just to protect the windows dir. She hasn't had a problem since :)
As for the instability, at least it's thoughtful enough to reboot itself. Eventually I'll gather enough cash to drop in a Netscreen 5 for myself.
Running on a Centris.
Email. Web. Safety from viruses and worms.
'Nuff said.
What virus/worm issue? I hate to sound like a MS fanboy, but have the people bashing Windows even tried XP? I know a lot of people still use Windows 98, but you realize that is a 7 year old OS, right?
It's the XP computers we're all worried about. Have you not kept up with the news? Any idea what that giant XP SP2 is all about?
I run Windows XP, with the built-in firewall enabled. I have Norton AV with the Real-time File Protection enabled. Live Update updates my Virus Definition files automatically. I have weekly full-systems scans scheduled. I have Windows Automatic Updates configured to automatically download patches....
Wow. Well, for my mom I bought a Mac, and then... er, that's it really. I turned it on I guess. She hasn't had any probems for five years or so, though her HD space was getting low so I did buy an HD for her when I installed OS X (she just moved from 9). I did not have to buy Norton or arrange some complex series of scheduled sacrifices to dark gods to keep evil spirits at bay.
For myself I bought a Mac and... I guess I've been using it for years, also without protective incanations. In the Mac world, Norton is something you turn to when the damage done by an old failing HD is worse than that you can expect from Norton itself.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For the record, I was typing that on a PC which must have lost the tags. :-)
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I migrated from Sygate to Kerio, and while it is true that Kerio is no longer 100% free, this is what you miss out on after 30 days:
"Limited free edition does not provide the content filtering capabilities such as blocking pop-up windows, ads, VB scripts, cookies, etc. and other extra features. Please see the comparison table for more details."
Personally, I didn't use any of that because I have a good browser and can handle myself without the "extra features" - it reminded me twice that it expired (a few days before, and on day of) and has since been silently doing its duty.
Norton AntiVirus has always been good to me...
but i have one word to add to NAV...
BlackICE
"And so the Trekkies were executed in the mannor most befitting virgins - thrown into volcanoes" - Futurama
This reminds me of an incident about 8 years ago:
:P needed more space (came with 200 MB). Since RadioShack no longer sold/supported their own PCs, we went to the no-name computer store. They transferred the files to a bigger hard drive and gave us back the machine. The poor thing was never the same.
The ol' Tandy Sensation
Random programs stopped working. It didn't take long for me to figure out that something called Visual Basic runtimes had somehow magically disappeared from my hard drive.
Nothing ever happens to the computers at my house, thank goodness, because I would've handcuffed myself to the CD tray before letting another "computer specialist" touch a machine from my house.
A couple years back, my parents ignored my rants and made me call a guy to figure out why Windows was broken.
Tell me why the guy we paid $50+ had the same methods as me: pull out MS-DOS manual, look up commands. The difference came when I realized the scanner had renamed 10 system files. He couldn't figure out what was wrong and suggested reformatting.
Questions: Why did Symantec acquire Quarterdeck but discontinue all definition updates? Why did uninstalling the scanner fuck up Windows and permanently fry the mouse? Why does this clown still have a job? Why am I in college if all I need to make money is DOS manuals?
Many more questions but that's much, much more than enough for my first post...
Things to look out when your parents become grandparents with a computer. The grandkids!
These mini-hackers proceeded to load every game known to man on Grandpa's computer because their parents wouldn't let them load them on theirs. They proceed to really mess it up and I had to try and fix it from California.
Luckily I had installed PC Anywhere before I left last time and got into the computer and fixed most of the stuff.
I've tried to get the little rats to log onto the accounts I created especially for them but they still used Grandpa's admin account.
After Grandpa almost lost the emails from a real piece of business he had it wasn't so cute anymore. I had a little talk with the nephews and nieces and told them that if they didn't stop loading crap on Grandpa's computer I would have to tell their parents about all the porn they were surfing. That seemed to have solved the problem.
Now if I can just get my BIL to stop giving my Dad bootleg versions of MS products that can't be patched I could relax.
I also showed him some of the attacks he was getting on his cable modem just to prove the importance of a firewall.
On Windows 2k or XP, make their accounts user accounts and remove them from the adminstrator group. Then they can't install software.
Now log on as the admin account.
This won't stop them from installing activex components though, so use the "Set Program Access and Defaults" tool to set the default web browser to Firefox (or anything besides IE).
Then open up c:\WINDOWS\inf\SYSOC.INF in notepad. Do a global search and replace for the word "hide" without quotes. Now you can remove more software with Control Panel. Open Control Panel | Add and Remove Software | Windows Components. Remove Outlook Express, Windows Messenger, and if you can, IE. I've never tried removing IE this way, so your mileage may definitely vary.
Now in Control Panel go into Administrative tools and look at Services. Disable at least the following:
Server
Computer Browser
Error Reporting
Telnet
Messenger
And anything else that isn't necessary.
Make sure to turn on automatice download and install of Windows updates and anti-virus updates, each checking daily during a time you are reasonably sure they machine is on.
Get them a decent email reader, like Thunderbird. Set up Thunderbird (or whatever email reader you use) to automatically save all attachments in a specific folder. Then go into the security for that folder and deny everyone the ability to execute (right click on folder, properties, security, advanced, add a user "everyone" and deny traverse/execute). Now if someone sends them an application via email, it will automatically go into that folder and since everyone is specifically denied the ability to execute files from that folder, even double clicking the attachment won't let it start.
In XP, enable the firewall and block everything but Remote Desktop. Unlike VNC, remote desktop connections are encrypted by default. If you must use VNC, use UltraVNC with the encryption plugin.
If they need a piece of software installed, remote desktop in and install it for them.
This should keep a windows machine fairly secure.
...depending on how invested you are in your parent's computing. :)
My parents had the luck of having me network their house before I moved out after college. So the Cat 5 went to every room. Originally my parents had two Windows 98 machines that I stuck behind a linux firewall which certainly made life pretty easy for them for a while. But was Windows got targetted more and more, my parents were getting fed up with the maintenance they had to do to keep their systems up. Finally, this year my Mom said, "We'd like to try Linux. We don't want to buy new PCs to run Windows XP, so can we try Linux"? Of course I took them up on the offer
The plan was that my Mom would get the Linux PC and my dad would keep his Windows box for now. That way if they wound up not liking Linux or not being able to use it, they'd still have access to one machine they were familiar with. But, I had a little surprise for them. I took my mom's machine
back to my place and found that it was a little too slow for RedHat 9. No matter, I had two Pentium II 233s in the basement that weren't being used at the moment. So, I took both of them and the iMac-wannabe cases I didn't need any more and threw together two new systems.
I installed RedHat 9, but left off the bundled versions of Mozilla, OpenOffice.org, Xmms, and a few other apps. Then I worked on custom compiling the kernel to get smoother operation out of the boxes (including the pre-emptive kernel patch). The latest Samba went on for file sharing and interoperability with their Windows box. I also designed a few very professional looking icons for the OpenOffice.org suite, and "M" icons for Mozilla and Mozilla Mail (to mimic the "e" for Explorer). I layed out a custom Gnome Panel with all the possible buttons and drawers they would need. I installed the latest CVS W.I.N.E. and brought over a few of the Windows apps that they still wanted. I built the latest MPlayer for video and Xmms with MP3 support. Put a nice logout/shutdown button on the Gnome Panel at the far right and imported all the old Windows documents (Word, Excel, IE Favorites and some BMPs and GIFs). The simplest, but nicest (according to my dad) touch was some really nice desktop backgrounds of scenic shots from Australia that I took myself. To make things easier for them and myself, I also set them up with ssh connections to my server at my house that automatically log in with Public Key Authentication and set up tunnels for the x0vncserver and ssh. This makes remote support of their systems very easy. All they have to do is click on an icon when their dialup connection is up and I have access to their machines. They also have access to my private Jabber server and mail server over the tunnel as well.
I started on the project in late October and polished it through to X-Mas. My parents were only expecting one computer, but I brought both of them and boy were they happy. I told them that they could try them out for a few months and if it didn't work out, I had no problem helping them look for new Windows XP machines. I also told them that I coud provide "tech support" any time they needed it as long as I was near a computer. So far, I've only had a ew remote support sessions because the machines are easy enough for them to do most of what they need. After I got them set up with a Netgear TCP/IP print server, RedHat's printing setup mechanism got things going in less than 15 minutes. So my dad has been working with OpenOffice.org's Calc spreadsheet app and printing out what he needs. He told me, "This is just like Office"!
My birthday is coming up at th end of the week. I got a birthday card from my folks that they printed up using Mozilla on Linux to access a web based card designing app hosted by American Greetings (I think). So far it's ony a few months in, but my parents are happy. About the only problem they've had is the occasional IE only web site. They love the fast performance and stability of their new systems compared to their older
Un-news
From the commenets posted here, I'm 95% sold on the idea of installing Linux for my parents. I'm running Redhat 9 at work and it's fine for all of my work-related needs, so I think I'd be comfortable getting it up and running for them.
That said, I have one reservation: Media support. Even with Windows installed, I get regular phone calls from my Mom asking "how do I open a dot [blah] attachment". Basically, I want her to be able to one-click open audio and video files from her friends as well as online stuff like online radio broadcasts. Like I said, I'm not really a "home user" of Linux, so I've never bothered to install any of these amenities. Can anyone in the geek community give me some hints toward a working solution?
Cheers!
...Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.
Churchill
- a befsx41 hardware firewall
- avg antivirus set to autoupdate
- windows auto-update turned on
- google toolbar
- Spybot and adaware installed and instructions how to use them.
- A refresher every time I come over on how to run adaware and spybot, and a complete sweep by me.
Honestly, it's helped a lot. The computers aren't near as wridden as they used to be when I visit.I do security
I threaten my parents with an "Internet License," telling them I'll revoke it if they ever get a virus from clicking on a dumb email attachment. It helps keep the aware of suspicious emails and they tend to ask me when they're confronted with something that doesn't seem right.
I recently had the opportunity to work on my cousin's PC.. her husband had been running win2k unprotected on DSL for over a month. Total whorebox. I mean they were asking me, "what is mIRC and why is it running? we didn't install it." It reminded me of the time I forgot about the chicken I left to defrost in my sink before going out on vacation -- FOR TWO WEEKS!
I formatted and reinstalled, disabled as many services as possible and filtered TCP and UDP as much as I could prior to connecting to the net. I dove in and went straight to zonelabs. I stood with my finger on the cable while the download completed and soon as the dialog showed 100%, yoink!
I installed Zone Alarm, locked it down, and went back online to start the patching party. Zone Alarm blocked the first connect (port 135, which virus was that again? there are so many..) in 43 seconds. I checked. I left the Zone Alarm control panel up to show my cousin's husband when he came home from work since it continuously updates the number of blocked access attempts. Within six hours, ZA had blocked 983 attempts. And now, three weeks later, their system is still running fine. Not that they would notice if it wasn't, but still..
Intelligent Life on Earth
Get a "Professional" version of Windows (2000 or XP), and DON'T give them admin rights. XP Home won't work because you don't get file system protection. Give explicit write permission to the places where bady written apps need it. (that takes a while...)
Install a firewall, like ZoneAlarm. Make sure it won't complain to them in normal operations, or they'll get into the habit of allowing everything.
Disable IE, or at least all of its fancy features. Same goes for Outlook. Install appropriate alternatives that either don't have as many security holes, or are buggy enough to mutilate any attempted exploit beyond recognition.
Everytime you visit, log in as admin and run Windows Update.
And if that sounds like too much work, just lie and steal.
And explain to him the dangers of browsing porn sites.
Get Firefox - Take Back the Web
ONLY WAY TO GO
and they can safely use BSD. That is what i did for my girlfriend. Solved all of her problems.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
My parents have always used Macs, so I've never had to do tech support for them.
Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
-kfg
Microsoft's answer to Java's security sandbox was ActiveX controls, code signing and carte blanche. Many people are now paying for this bullshit cavalier short-sightedness with limitless frustration caused by unscupulous (and copiously predicted) abuses of the system.
Microsoft, and their many partisans, laughed off the sandbox as a cumbersome, unnecessary and losing solution. And now we are reaping the whirlwind.
Even some of the more "reputable" sites I've visited lately will popup-spam you to death, and almost instantly from one of the popups you will see the rapidly-becoming-infamous dialog box:
And of course half the hapless idiots in the world click yes, and are forever running slowly, crashing, relaying their all their activities hither and yon, getting 5x as many popups as before (with more and more malware in each).
Before you point out that Java is ultimately the same (in that the same mechanism, code signing by a "trusted authority" controls privilege escalation) let me point out that with ActiveX this is the end of the road, and you are entirely screwed, where as with a sandbox like Java gives you, it is not difficult for someone to simply selectively disable various privilege escalations in a very fine-grained way.
Fine, you will say - I will just disable autoinstall, which is truthfully what many people (and especially many companies) do. Great. With IE you're stuck with a much less interesting web (who cares, most people grumble) - but needlessly, because with Java I can just disable privilege escalation, and still get lots of interesting things.
If sandboxes were mandated, Flash, Director, etc. and all of the various things, past and future, that make the web interesting would have been written to run in the sandbox. But now, from the people who gave us the email clients that instantly run scripts in the emails they receive, we have 1-click-computer-destruction made easy for any "entrepeneur" anywhere in the world, with the way paved by well-meaning "just click yes" advice from back in the day when Macromedia was the only signer you'd encounter. The whole infrastructure is under attack, exactly like we said it would be.
The only surprise is that it took this many years for abuses of the system to reach the fever pitch they're at now. And to be safe, now our only way to look out for those who can't look out for themselves is to lock the whole machine down to the point that tremendous opportunities will be missed.
Thanks, Microsoft. I could go through some hoops to sanitize your browser, but it's easier just to switch to Firebird.
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
Especially if she lives near an Apple store. That way she can bring it in with her for their free, weekly classes on most of the things she wants to do. It's a lot easier when parents have some training already. This helps if you get them AppleCare too - it's a lot easier to bring in or pack up an iBook for shipping. AppleCare is worth the price in your time alone.
Also, don't underestimate the power of iPhoto and iChat. My in-laws had a problem that stumped them. I told them to take a picture of the screen with their digital camera, plug the camera in (auto starts iPhoto), import the photo, and click "Mail" and send it to me. Since this was something they were already comfortable with, they had no problem. I could immediately see what was wrong. Another time, I had her open iChat and aim the iSight at the screen while I walked her through the problem. Easy as cake.
Don't forget to use the easy to operate System Preferences to lock down all the services (done by default), turn on the firewall, and tell them to let Software Update apply Apple security patches. I instructed them to hold off on other Software Updates unless they checked with me first. If you're really neurotic you can set them up without admin rights, but that can mean updates don't get applied unless you are around.
Virus? What's a virus?
Hey if everyone could go to wikipedia and contribute as much as possible about this topic that would be great! thanks.
Liberty.
I tried to coax my parents into letting me put the Google toolbar on their computer for the purpose of blocking their popups. The problem is, my parents use some popups, like on news sites when they click on "E-mail this to a friend" and it pops up in another window. I told them this was fine, they could hold down CTRL and it would work fine. My dad told me this was "too complicated". As my dad is not helpless in front of a computer, this frustrated me to no end. They'd rather deal with hundreds of popups to avoid missing the few they select themselves.
I realized that, once configured properly, Linux is a very usable OS when my wife was able to use a computer in our house with no difficulty running linux. Since then, I have set my mother-in-law's PC to use linux (SuSE to be exact) with Open Office and Mozilla. VNC is set up for my access to her system, should it be needed. We've had no problems, and she has never needed the root password. This also means that every bozo out there in her church who thinks that he or she knows something about computers can't ruin a good thing, on top of the young, hyperactive grandchildren who visit. On top of that, the Bayesian filtering offered by the Mozilla news reader has even eliminated any potential spam problems. Yes, I would agree with the OS X postings out there, but I get a hold of used PCs for nothing from my job, and they are dirt poor, so I'm using the almighty penguin. :-)
I got my mother an iMac in Xmas of 2002 and have never had any issues. Never a phone call, never a crash. It patches itself. (OK I did upgrade it to Panther, and boy was it hard. I had to put the CD in and click a few times..!). So I do not get it whats the big deal...oh, your parents are running Windows? Poor slob!
My parents rarely used their Windows 98-based PC for anything other than surfing the web and reading e-mail. The only exceptions being an occasional Word document being e-mailed to them and keeping accounting information in a basic spreadsheet.
My first step was to switch them to Mozilla and OpenOffice.org. I introduced Mozilla to them as an upgrade. They have a slow dial-up connection, so they loved being able to read one news article while the next one was already loading in a different tab.
When I switched them to Linux/KDE a couple of months later, their only complaint was the few more seconds it took for their machine to boot. Mozilla and OpenOffice.org looked and felt no different than what they were used to.
Anyway, I can now ssh into their machine to keep it up to date and help them with any problems they might run into.
Why is this nonsense getting moderated informative?
I despair.. i really do.
If your parents are always putting dangerous or stupid applications on their pcs, despite all of your warnings, there is nothing you can do for them.
I would, however, remove their access to IE, give them Firebird, remove their access to Outlook, set them up on Yahoo Mail. This means that the amount of damage some *&^% attachment can do is limited somewhat as Yahoo does some virus scanning, and the damn popups with their alluring 'click us'ness don't show up.
Gnu/Linux
:P, but ever since I installed it for people THEY WON'T GO BACK TO WindBlows[TM].
Ok maybe it's one phrase
Seriously.
Give them a home dir on the harddrive, and be done with it. IIRC Knoppix will auto detect it, or can be made to do so.
PCLinuxOS has this functionality, possibly Mandrakemove, but Knoppix hardware detection seems better, probably not an issue in this app.
My parents have at least 4 computers between them, so this subject comes up almost every week - Hate to say it, but Win XP remote assistance is the best 'parent computer tool' ever. I also set the 'rents up with a linksys router, and I have web-admin turned on. Between the two, I can check and see what's wrong with their wireless configuration and see what they're messing up at the same time. Having control of the router also lets me open up a DMZ to allow remote assistance to work.
At age 75, my Dad only uses his PC to read e-mail, play a few simple games and visit a few web sites. His PC consists of one of my old systems with 256 Meg of RAM, a CDROM Drive, a Knoppix CD and NO HARD DRIVE. His email account in on one of my servers and he accesses it via Open WebMail from OpenWebMail.org. Running from a "live" CD, he never has to worry about spyware etc. If he "goofs something up" as he would say, a simple reboot puts things right again.
Did they pay for Windows? If not, don't install it. If they did, tell them that Microsoft tech support comes exclusively from Microsoft, and you're not interested in supporting their garbage.
Then explain that Linux tech support comes from volunteers such as yourself, and you are more than willing to help them figure out how to use Linux.
If their Windows installation does anything bad, explain the above again.
As an IT professional, I have more than my fair share of friends and extended family wanting tech support, and this is the only way I can keep it managable and keep myself sane.
they have to talk about it : I don't feel like it :)
I set up my parents with a little Linux Box last time I was home. Haven't had any problems with it yet, aside from the fact that my dad can't use Kazaa to get his porn anymore (I refuse to set that man up with Apollon just so he can see naked ladies). They don't know how to use the shell really so it's hard for them to break anything too bad, and anything they do damage I can fix most problems via ssh. Debian(woody)/OpenOffice/Gnome/Firefox/Thunderbird look enough like MS to keep them functional, but are far enough from MS to keep them from being eaten alive by big nasty worms/vulnerabilities.
For web/mail/chat,
FreeBSD, gnome-sawfish, mozilla, and xchat.
scripts to send you their ip, and a ssh port opened up.
let them know what you are doing and how, talk to them.
and no, they do not get root until they figure out how to boot into single user = )
cheers,
Tomas
^..^
I installed Debian on an old PC for my mom several years ago. Since then, the only time she's had troubles was when she had a friend of my brother's rent a room for a while. He *thought* he know Linux, and talked the root password out of her . . . . .
I tell my folks to click "no, cancel, close, shutdown" in that order of severity... In all actually I keep my folks using apple hardware/software which keeps them out of most of the trouble your average parent can get into in the first place...
-dewhite
Actually I started off my girlfriend and family on Linux first, since they haven't had any problems over the years my parents actually requested I let them try it to. Gentoo to the rescue again and happy Parents they will be soon. Don't get me wrong the iMac suggestion was a great way to solve the problem. Just I haven't got one yet.
The immature mind measures.
Here's my strategy:
r p.asp for a free and up to date virus scan
use http://housecall.antivirus.com/housecall/start_co
install http://www.lavasoftusa.com/support/download/#free then update and repeatedly run it until all the 'bugs' are gone.
buy and install http://blackice.iss.net/update_center/index.php silly gibson gave the thing a bad rap a while ago but there is a unique feature in this thing today which is _waaay under-rated.
BlackIce has Application Protection.. meaning it will checksum any and all execuatables and related files on your system and validate the integrity of each process on startup.
this is perhaps just 99% proof of a positive but since BlackIce application protection does not attempt to disprove a negative it is the very best thing i know for keeping a system clean. If you start with a clean system it insures that it'll stay that way.
Next, get Opera. Set to 'no cookies' and 'open requested popups only' and voila.
then turn off auto-updates. install them when you come back to that system a few months later and update the baseline for whatever the updates brought in and whatever your neighbor's cousin wound up putting on their system.
Total elapsed time to set this up.. usually under 2 hours and you will have plenty of time to chit-chat and let yourself be fed while you're at it.
BlackIce.. man.. anyone know anything better?
You should get her an iBook instead. That's what my bro and I did. She loves it.
Harrrr!
I gave my wife Debian. I can ssh into it and update it whenever I feel the need. It's easy, she loves it and I've never looked back. No more fucking around with Gator, attachments you can't get or any of those other Broken Windoze things that make for better billing than use. For those of you who don't want to spend too much time configuring things, install Mepis, God's gift of Debian for the masses.
It's getting better all the time.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
so I finally told my folks that the time was upon them to put a stop to the BS.
Since they are computer dummies anyway and only use the PC (over dialup) for email, browsing, ebay, digital camera, and printing it was a no brainer.
I built them a brand new PC from scratch and installed Suse on it. They can do EVERYTHING they need to do and they have had ZERO problems with it.
As a matter of fact, they find it easier to use because it simply works, versus fighting constantly with the M$ machine they used to have.
No BSOD's, no reboots, no viruses, etc... It just works and works and works and works and.....
Best thing I ever did. I was SICK and tired of the constant phone calls. Now I call them every once in a while just to see how the PC is doing.
"No problems!"
Because they didn't understand Windows anyway, switching to Linux was not a problem for them.
I switched ALL of my family and friends to Linux.
Life is good...
I took away Mom's PC and gave her a george forman grill in it's place. Now she can "check her email" and all the fat drips down in to the drip tray... and her email now has grill marks on both sides and cooks in half the time!
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Geek girls are hotter anyway. :D
Moderation totals that amuse me for one of my posts: Flamebait=1, Insightful=2, Funny=2, Overrated=1, Underrated=1
Use a Mac... fewer/no viruses, "free applications," and vulnerabilities.
Set up XP so that they only have USER rights which should stop most applications from being installed.
run Linux... probably not a viable option.
Back in the days of the Windows 95/98 systems there was this program called Trialblazer which would intercept any disk access done via DOS or Windows API calls, and make backups of any files which got screwed over. The end result was you could jump into the Trialblazer next boot and revert every setting back to whatever you had snapshotted, and everything would work exactly as normal.
Some of the best tests for it were installing a whole set of viruses and spyware, and deleting large quantities of the Windows directory. The next reboot would just restore it back to working condition.
Basically it ends up being like Ghost but where all the backed up data is stored on the same disk.
Of course these days we have Windows NT-based systems, which Trialblazer never supported (the guy who was writing it probably rightly decided rewriting an entire application to intercept a completely different set of OS calls was too much work.)
But these days, there are hardware devices you can get these days which are PCI IDE devices of the same type. You plug the card into the PCI, you plug the hard disk into it, and somehow they do exactly the same thing. Whereas this smacks of evil hardware RAID solutions, using this sort of thing as an idiotproofing system sounds like a damn good idea to me even now. These people don't need disk writing performance, they just need the machine to work, and this sort of backup makes that relatively easy without needing much user intervention at all (you have to perform the original snapshot when the system is working, and how many times you choose to do that is up to you.)
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
And has for about the last year. No linux associated problems. The only problems are the "what do I do now?" questions that arise when she is using any piece of software. (evident when running turbotax inside of vmware... and yes she starts the vmware session all by herself). I gave her red hat 9 + ximian d2. and it seems a good fit.
I have no problem supporting my parents, siblings or other direct family members. I'll even help my inlaws - they have a Mac...not bad.
:)
But my mom got the bright idea of offering me to help one of her friends with their computer - a dialup issue - I hate modems! Anyway, when I got there, I swear that anything you can download off the internet was on their machine and their system tray was about 60% of their taskbar.
I fought through it and got it working again. I tested several times and then shut the machine down and had them go through it without any help to make sure they could do it. My mom mentioned in passing a week or two later that it stopped working. Fortunatly their son-in-law (who as out of town the first time) was going to look into it. He had to be nice to them
I don't like the fact my neighboors know what I do for a living. One of them just likes to ask all kind of open-ended questions, one at least has us over for dinner when helping her, one expects me to get a machine with OJ spilled on it working.
Oh well...at least it gets me free pizza once in a while.
As many (most?) other posts have said, you should really look into non MS options. If money is not a critical issue you would likely be best getting a Mac. Otherwise I would strongly recommend either Xandros or OEone's HomeBase. The former for people who are very used to and like the WinXX interface and the latter for people who actually want to do something on their computer.
--
If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
I put all the known malware sites, ad sites and other scumsucking sites like Doubleclick in the hosts file with the address of 127.0.0.1 I also have them use Internet Explorer with the Internet Zone security settings set to disable Javascript and disable all ActiveX controls. Sites that need to use JS or ActiveX are put in the Trusted Sites with the security set to Medium (something I wish they would put in Mozilla) Protects from most malware sites, parasiteware sites and has the bonus of stopping them falling into popup hell. A side advantage is there is a lot less traffic from advert servers coming down, speeding up browsing.
I installed Fedora Core 1 on their machine and told them it was "like windows". I showed them how to check their mail and use the internet. Done. If they have a problem I just SSH into their box and fix it. Again, done. Don't knock my solution until you try it with your 65 year old parents.
You know what they say people, be nice to your kids, because someday you're going to have to rely on them being nice to you.
My grandma always tells us that whatever disrespect we show my mom and her will be the exact same shit we get from our kids.
Maybe it's a Nigerian thing.
Actually, I guess it's not really the same saying is it.
"So if I sleep with the boy next door, my kids are gonna be gay no matter what?"... Bad example, but it's only my second post!
They're cheap, make great Father/Mother's Day presents, and modern burners will run on anything, even the P133 Mom and Dad have.
Then back up their system using the burner.
Jon Acheson
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
I installed mandrake 8.2 on a pc I built for them. They hadnt touched a computer before, they just stared blankly at me the first time I said "press escape".
They use it ever since, I did an upgrade with 9.2, they thanked me because "it became faster" (new kde). They also thank me whenever a virus wave hit their friend, because ALL OF THEM are hit in some ways every time and SOME OF THEM even disappear from the net for weeks "until their computer is fixed".
The praises I get for a simple install once a year, and a few updates here and then: PRICELESS!
Dual boot P200 (recently upgraded from a P100 that died... not much money to buy new equipment here).
Windows95 with OO.org; OO.org set to use MS formats so they can communicate with other people. They can't switch completely to Linux because they are given windows apps to run (stupid form filling stuff) frequently at their work.
Networking is done on Linux only. Mozilla+Balsa. They have windowmaker as desktop. Yes, windowmaker. That way, they don't have lots of panels they don't know how to use, just two big square buttons for the apps. They don't need more, and are quite happyy with that.
We have a small network in myy home, and they are quite firewalled, with me administering the firewall. Not a single security problem with this seetup (no adware, no popups, no random installing of software or random delting of system files, no crashes)
I installed Debian on my parents dell over thanksgiving break. now if it has problems (which it usually doesnt) i can ssh in and take a look around. if its really broke i can even forward X through ssh and see exactly what dad is having problems with. i know this stuff is available in windows, but the thing with windows is they can still install stuff even without permissions to install to the correct place (you still have a profile and whatnot to install to). My parents run debian on 2.6.3 with the gnome2.4 and they love it. they dont even complain that it looks different. with crossover office (really worth the money) they can open all of their word documents and whatnot. with k3b they can burn cd's really easy, with the combination of autofs and hotplug they can use their digital camera and not have to type or click anything (except the camera icon that pops up on the desktop). their my documents folder is samba mounted from the fileserver in the basement. whenever i ask them how the machine is running dad always replies "its actually fast!" and mom likes the new games that came with gnome. i have it made easy though because my parents dont really use the computer for a whole lot. i just basically just asked them what they used the computer for and then set it up according to those specifications. with linux i can set up the machine to do exactly what they need it for and nothing else. they dont have permission to break anything really. the worst they can do is nuke their home directory, which is easily fixable anyway since all important files are on the server (including the best of their digital camera pics that they have the option to put on the web server via samba mount).
the big trick is patience. the initial install was a little rough, like printing (non postscript printers are funky with cups), cdburning (i had never heard of k3b before i set it up for the parents), the digital camera (origionally setup in fstab and they had to right click on the desktop in gnome and mount and unmount the camera where its now truely plug and play), and explaining a little of the differences (that they cant install programs by themselves). you are bound to miss something (like i missed flash and mplayer for a couple months), but you have to make it clear that if they need something to tell you.
linux on the desktop is possible, but its problem is that you cant just give it to someone and expect to pick it right up and go. it took me awhile to tweak the system since i made it a rule to only mess with it while i have local access (that applies to software installation and upgrading) which happens every couple of months or so.
i feel like such a zealot or something but as you said i got sick of having to mess with virus scanners and spyware and email worms and stuff (my parents are the type to open attachments). desktop linux is coming. but right now its still up to us to help people get it up and running. you still cant just give a cd to anyone and expect them to figure it out. so yea it takes a little work...
It is (so far) virus proof.
It downloads and displays TV listings.
I have to fix something about once every 3 years. It is safe and it works.
I highly recommend it.
The one downside it doesn't follow the media viewing trends of the web. No video, no pdf, no application download.
ya, well, just tell 'em to use pine. CLI is easier for newbies anyway as i red this morning on slashdot.
Install Linux. ...
Use FVWM for the file manager.
Configure it so you have buttons for what they just need to have.
Mozilla/Netscape
Open Office
Connect to Internet (if dialup)
Email client.
And remove any other thing that can cause them to get into trouble.
This is also a good configuration for say a public terminal. So that way they cannot mess things up. Mozilla will block the popup adds, Linux is a good defense against spyware and viruses. Plus with the ridged configuration of FVWM (threw a config file) You wont get calls asking what happened to my icons. Or I messed it up.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I find that most people's parents a) Do not know how to use Linux or Mac OS b) Have little interest in learning them c) Require even more tech support if you do get them to switch somehow As a result, I find its best to just make do with windows. In some cases, products such as Deep Freeze and other such apps will do a fine job of preventing a computer from being messed up. Other times just configuring the computer properly and explaining a thing or two to the users will suffice. I have my folks on windows 2000 using the administrator account. Other then a hard drive failure (hardly their fault), they have not had a lick of trouble despite not being technologically inclined. Simply dismissing because they won't switch to operating systems doesn't do anybody any good.
Hikery.net - The best hiking site ever. Made by yours truly.
Yeah, I know this was meant to be funny, but actually it'd probably be a bad idea for him to have children who is also quite technically-oriented. My mom is a special education teacher and she's constantly telling me that I can't marry anyone technical since it strongly increases the chances of autism in children. This was partly discovered by Microsoft who started looking into why they were having so many insurance claims for autistic children amongst their employees. It seems that with more women in technical positions now that more co-workers are getting married. Then, when you combine the genes of two very analytical people the child's genes may be too strongly concentrated with this analytic thinking which results in Autism or Asberger's syndrom. They may be very intelligent, but have many difficulties dealing with everyday social situations.
So, go ahead and marry someone intelligent, just not too technical.
Just put them on The Hurd and be done with it. You know we'll all end up there eventually.
I would have to wonder if your parents actually listen to what you have told them about modern computing...
My parents have listened to what I've told them regarding their computers, and they've only had one virus and no adware/spyware since I turned them loose on in the spring of '94. Mind you, they had no previous experience with computers and don't really use them much in their careers.
Those of you whose parents are constantly fighting virii and malicious apps, despite your repeated warnings, I would suggesting looking for the root of the problem in your relationship with your parents. They probably aren't listening to what you say because they don't respect what you have to say.
That's the influence that 18 years of you lying to your parents had on them.
While many (as I) would agree that Buying a MAC or switching over to linux is the answer. Unfortunaty, those are better answers for YOU, and would require a hunge amount of time, and or money. (I can't imagine having to re-teach my mom how to do things in a MAC or Linux).
The simple answer is IE.
There are over 100+ different spyware apps that can install themselves automatically (or semi-automatic by disguising themselves) via ActiveX and javascript that can affect your system via IE.
Your answer is switching mom and pop over to an alternative browser. My suggestion for the easiest transition would definitally be Mozilla Firefox, although k-meleon and opera are good too.
The second problem would be Outlook, either upgrade them to Outlook 2003 (which still has issues and I'm sure more issues will be discovered) or move them over to another E-mail app. (I suggest Thunderbird, but others may differ).
I tell you this by experience as the only problems I have had with parents computers are IE/Outlook related. My dad swears he never installs anything via links or IE, but spyware always pops-up and I end up tracking down the source IE.
Alternatives are disabling allot of features in IE and Outlook, but that would make them close to unfunctional.
Just my 2cents
Do you want to save changes before closing the document?
(Yes) (No) (Cancel)
One thing I appreciated about Apple is their tendency to use verbs- For instance TextEdit's buttons read (Don't Save) (Cancel) (Save) instead of Yes and No. Safari's Add Bookmark pane reads (Cancel) (Add). It's just better that way.
Oh yeah and to keep this on topic, my brother and I just got our mom an eMac and it works well for her (and her 5673 digital pictures).
I have always had good luck with HP printers. And HP gets a gold star for their Linux driver support: the Linux drivers are fully free software and have all the features of the Windows drivers.
HP has made a few cheap, junky printer models, and I don't recommend those. You should try getting her an HP DeskJet 895C, 970C, or 990C off eBay, and see if that doesn't sort out her issues. Or if she doesn't care about color, you could even get her a LaserJet 1200 series; those just print PostScript (well, a compatible clone) so there aren't any driver issues.
My Dad clings stubbornly to his HP DeskJet and HP DeskJet Plus! They are slow, but built like tanks, and his ancient DOS word processor can talk to them.
One thing I really like about HP DeskJet printers: when you swap the ink cartridge, you are also swapping the print head. My DeskJet printers over the years have had few problems, and usually swapping out the ink cartridge fixed the problem. (If the problem is clogged nozzles, use the printhead cleaning features from the "toolbox". Alas, the toolbox hasn't been ported to Linux yet.)
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
You're actually asking a question like this on slashdot? You know you're going to get Linux as your answer.
Seriously, when I first ran Windows 98 on my mom's computer, she got so frustrated with Outlook Express refusing to check her mail that she gave up using a computer several times.
After convincing her to go back, she managed to obtain a virus. She freaked and refused to use a computer again. So I installed Linux, and she has been happy ever since.
The tech support calls have been cut into a third. And when she needs help, often it's just an ISP-related problem.
Now people claim that Windows is idiot-proof and Linux is hard. Well, my mom hasn't had any problems with Linux, but was constantly frustrated with Windows. So, perhaps Linux is "idiot-proof" and Windows is difficult to use.
To many people this may be considered a troll, but I'm being serious here and the guy asking the question should take this seriously.
Hypocrisy is the 8th deadly sin.
Not the gun, the typewriter.
On second thought, maybe the gun.
Oh, by the way, in SOVIET RUSSIA, your parents' computer protects YOU.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
After all the grief people get for wanting to protect their kids from an unsavory internet, and you have the nerve to ask how to protect you parents??!? If you can't trust them alone and you can't sit and watch every link they click on..... :-P
I guess it helps that microsoft has actively tried to blur the line between what's local and what on the network such that you can't tell if you are accepting a certificate or installing software. Either way, you can rest asured that it will be insecure either way.
Keep your parents off the internet.
My non-technical family has been running Red Hat for 2 years now, with good success. I actually taught my mom how to run a "dialup" script that I wrote, and she can connect to the Internet just fine.
:)
They actually have two computers: a Win98 box and the RH box. The RH box is running SAMBA, and when each of my family members logs into his/her account on the Win98 side, his/her userspace is automatically mounted as drive X: (or something).
They have OpenOffice and Firebird on both machines.
Just this past Christmas, I upgraded my in-laws from W2K to Mandrake 9.2. They've been having a grand time (the games are a real winner), except that just today Evolution started giving them problems when they try to send mail.
My family has a hardware modem that I bought specifically for them, and they use wvdial in RH 9.0 (now). My in-laws have a winmodem that we bought (gasp!) a driver for from linuxant.com. I must admit, KPPP is very nice, and it beats my dialup script any day.
I'm planning to switch my family from GNOME/RH 9.0 to Mandrake/KDE next time I'm out there. I hadn't tried Mandrake until just before Christmas, but I must admit that I now recommend it as the best choice for my non-technical friends & relatives.
I recently installed Mandrake 9.2 on another friend's machine, and so far she's doing fine, too.
In fact, as I type I'm working on a laptop to send to my Dad. I've got Mandrake 9.2 on it and configured nicely (with Quasar, Firebird, and Acroread installed), but I just joined the Mandrake club so I can put 10.0 on it instead.
My experience has been that if you make sure people can do the things they want to do (i.e., not run MS Flight Sim, but email, surf the Web, word processes, etc.), and those people are willing to learn something new (or don't know any better), they can do just fine with something like Mandrake.
I've also started demonstrating Linux for people using MandrakeMove (KNOPPIX would work as well, I'm sure, but I haven't tried it yet). It's great to be able to pop in a CD, tell them none of their data is being touched, tell them a "real installation would be faster", and see how impressed they are.
Short of pushing someone all the way to Linux, I think the next best thing is to give them something like TheOpenCD.
</rambling>
I'm sorry Mama.
I never meant to hurt you.
I never meant to make you cry,
But tonight, I'm cleaning out my closet.
- eminem
I've had my parents, both in their 70's, running Mandrake Linux for the last 3 years. They email friends and family, play some games, and budget their retirement using kspread. Never anything I can't fix in less than ten minutes, and a reboot every three months or so keeps them problem free.
If you put your folks on a "limited" Mac account, they can't trash it, without some serious effort. If they need something installed, SSH in and do it for them :). Plus, if they use Safari/Mozilla/Camino, no spyware, no pop-ups, ah! I've found Macs are almost impossible to screw up in the hands of parents. They may cost more, but it saves you the hassle.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I go nuts when my folks call when I'm busy. "I open IE, and get this LUCKY SEARCH thing?!"
unplug ethernet, tell them where the nearest internet-caffe is
http://www.proxomitron.info/
Grab 4.5j and add the following filter set:
http://www.jd5000.net/
JD is constantly refining his filters and they are a match made in heaven, I assure you.
Give it a try.
Visceral Psyche Films
1. Get your parents or other inexperienced users a Mac.
2. Learn basic OS X troubleshooting -- that's likely to be all you'll need, and it won't freakin' kill you so just do it, okay?
3. Load OnyX (freeware) and buy a copy of DiskWarrior 3 or Tech Tool Pro 4 (about $100) for them to keep around for emergencies.
4. Set up an external HD and script Carbon Copy Cloner to make a bootable clone every night while they're asleep.
Done. Seriously.
Getting a Mac, moving to Linux and switching to Firefox etc... are all excellent suggestions, but I've found that they aren't always practical. Many people learn by rote, and switching between all-MS products at work and other applications at home may generate even more confusion (and thus work for you) than the security problems they solve. And although Firefox is getting really good (it's my full-time browser), I do encounter bugs and incompatible pages more frequently than I did when I used IE, and have not had good luck with semi-skilled users I've switched to it.
This is all a long winded way of saying that *if* for some reason you're in a situation were you need to leave the machine in basically "pure Windows / MS" form, here are some ideas:
If you're cheap: Keep virus protection current (look to AVG or Panda if you need something free). The google toolbar for IE is a decent popup blocker and will take care of most of the spyware popups as well as make searching easier. Install both Ad-aware and Spybot Search & Destroy... manually update and run them when you visit, and use the Spybot "innoculate" feature. If they've got XP, demote their user accounts so that they aren't administrators, and either install all software for them or teach them to change accounts to do it themselves. VNC is nice, but the built-in remote assistance also works, and the full-blown remote access built into XP Pro works well over low-bandwidth connections when configured properly.
If you / they are willing to spend a few bucks and don't have a complete allergy to commercial software: Norton Internet Security isn't a bad package (if you turn off the parental controls crap) and will do most of what you need. The Antivirus and firewall are reasonably solid and very easy to use, as is Norton Antispam, which takes care of popups and browser-based spyware installation as well as mail filtering that's well-integrated and easy to use with Outlook and OE.
-R
I don't get asked tech support, and thats good.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
If you must run windows, this thread (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/archive/1 0/2003/08/4/85251) appears to be the only close to safe way.
First one had become nonfunctional, so I put Linux on that one. The other they had me buy and install earlier, and it was running a firewall and antivirus with automatic updates -- it lasted for a year until first something bad got through, and one of them also got hit by a metavirus which persuaded them to delete a crucial system file.
So I upgraded both their machines to Linux. Running happily.
I still suggest linux, because you can customize it to what your folks need..
I had my mom use kde, and she had very little problems with it.
basically, if you're appealing to people who dont want to dig deep into the system and shit, and just want a box that surfs the web, allows people to view family photos, etc... then you're fine.. kde might not bet he choice of most linux users, but it works in this case.
Windows is not the problem. User-ignorance is a problem, but it's not the big problem either. It's what's installed/configured. Here are some tips:
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Well several people may have mentioned this, I didn't read all 400 and something posts. But if your running windows, limiting what your parents can install is fairly easy and if they are real novices you could always put children like desktops on that lock them really down including a parent controlled web filtering program. I use one for my parents and my children as well, of course with different age appropriate applications and web site access's of course, but it definitely does the job. Edmark used to make a good one, don't know if they still do or not? I think it was called KidDesk Internet Safe.
Install VM Ware and set it to not save changes. Even better, write the image to a CD-ROM so that it can never be changed. Might take a while to boot, but now all those nasty programs can be easily removed with a simple on/off power cycle. Assuming no one writes a VM-Aware, bios-reflashing, auto-reinfecting virus anyway...
My father got his first computer last year at age 73. Fifteen years ago he used a couple of custom DOS programmes at work for a while, but that's all. Now he had to start from the very bottom basics, things like how to use the mouse and what the shift key does.
For a man who doesn't know what the shift key does, the learning curve is equal in all common operating systems. There was no legacy here, nor any acquired bad habits to take into account. So I installed Redhat on his machine.
The first major advantage, for the both of us, is that I can do everything on his machine remotely. We live some 3000+ km apart, so dropping by to do an update or fix a problem is not an option. However, as long as sshd runs and he can connect to the net, there is no problem that can't be fixed remotely.
The second major advantage is that we could skip most part of the security litany. No Outlook there. No MSIE. No spyware that comes in easy click-here-to-install rpms. Mozilla is secure enough for clueless use all by itself and, if he ever tries to run Netsky, all he'll get is a question he can't answer.
The third major advantage is that he is protected against himself. He can't ruin the system no matter what he does. Yes, he does have the root password, but he has no concept of what root is and no wish to find out. A little bash scrip backs up his home directory on CD every once in a while and that's all it takes to keep that system sane.
After eight months, the net result of this is only positive. All the probems he has had so far are of the kind he would have had on Windows too. Of all the problems mentioned in the main article, he has had none.
My short advise is: if your parents are new to computers, don't waste their learning efforts on Windows. Go straight for your favourite OS, as long as it has a good-looking and well-functioning GUI on top of it.
Our paarents' PC was...broken before 10 days.
Uh...!
But when I buy new one, I'll install Norton System Works 2004 Japanese Version for this PC.
2) Set Safari to block popups, and have OS auto-update itself.
3) Relax and actualy ENJOY a computer for once. Done.
The consensus was to get the inlaws an older computer or a cheap one from dell, load it with win2000 and all the software they would *need*, and then give it to them.
Oh, and not give them the admin password.
Want to install something? Too bad.
Yes, this seems harsh, but you don't know my inlaws. I've already fixed their win98 machine once. Symptom: so much malware that windows would freeze when trying to open IE -- I opened the taskmanager to see what was running and there were three pages of processes. Most of which were adware and spyware, and a few viruses. Many many hours later it was good as new.
Later we get another call. Laurie is in her room crying, mom wont talk to dad, dad is screaming and swearing: the computer is broken, it's our/her/their fault, it wont print, and on top of that the land phone line wont work. We tell them, after an hour of his ranting, to call the fucking phone company. He does, the tech shows up, pulls the USB printer cable out of the phone jack and leaves.
Well, they've called again. Opening IE freezes up the computer, and we've been informed that they have visited us enough and it is time to visit them, now (they live four hours away in the anus of Texas) and we should fix the computer while we're there.
I may bring a gift.
teach them how to use XFree86 and GNOME or KDE. No more spyware, worm, virus, dangerous program threats. Use Evolution for Email, and OpenOffice.org for Office software. Use Mozilla or Firefox for web access.
Either that or don't give them an account with Admin access to install programs on their Windows system.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
My mom does not use the computer *at all*, and my dad knows how to do only 3 things: Open firefox, navigate the yahoo mail website (it's his start page), and close it again.
No kidding... my 87 year old grandmother has been emailing her friends in the UK and Austria for over a year on an old 1991 mac with System 7. She loves it. Small screen, colorful and elegant, simple programs. Up until that she had only used a typewriter.
The old LaserWriter attached to it gave up the ghost last week so she is looking to 'upgrade' to surf the web... We are looking at a 15" iMac - any suggestions as to anything better/cheaper?
Wah!
Just load their system with auto-updates, etc, then make a restore image on CD or slave hard-drive. Give them a boot floppy that automatically restores to your original config. Now you just have to teach them to save to the slave drive.
Two big conduits for evil software. I've seen moderately protected machines (no router, no auto updates, no spyware elimination) with very little bad stuff, and well protected machines with tons of crap because the owner(s) look at porn and/or download music. Please folks, don't think Mom or Dad are above surfing for pron or grabbing a couple of tunes.
because my mom has never had a computer before, so she wouldnt have to overcome old windows habits...
And before you ask, SuSE 9.0 (because i use it myself, have lots of customized packages for it, and because i have it right here on my desk).
bye,
[L]
Thats one of the things getting fixed in XPSP2. The firewall is getting way beefed up, and will be on from the begining of the boot cycle.
Get her a used iBook & a cheapo 802.11b base station. Then she can use it wherever she wants in the house.
Decent used iBooks were running about a dollar a MHz the last time I checked.
I'm going there this spring. I'll bring a Mandrake CD with me and a second HDD to backup all their files. I'm going to install Mandrake and Windows on their computer with a dual boot. I'll tighten their Windows and the day it screws up I'll ask them to choose Linux instead of Windows at boot time. I'll tell them it is all I can possibly do for now and let them have a go at it! :-) Hopefully they'll not bee too lost! :)
Oh, and get your folks off of IE. That's worse than Outlook for the silent spread of viruses. Switch them to Mozilla.
Replace Outlook for anything else (Mozilla would be good).
Use the various hacks to permanently kill Outlook, Messenger (both), and IE.
Install ZoneAlarm.
For the hell of it NAT your folks' machine. Even if it's the only machine they have, buy a $50 Linksys and NAT it. That will go a long ways in stopping most NetBIOS worms.
Install a VNC app so you can remotely fix their machine when they inevitably do something wrong.
I just configure group policies and auto-updates so that my parents can't install any apps that'd hurt the system. As well I use Zone Alarm and AVG. If they ever do want to install any apps I just connect using the Remote Desktop Connection and configure their software for em. Aside from that just set up good spam filters and such and you should have TOO much of a problem. I tell them to never buy anything online till I check it out.
Mozilla
"Stuff... In my home!? NEVER!" - Zim on Invader Zim
"I want the toilet seat!" - Little Dog on Two Stupid Dogs
The simple answer: NO.
The sophisticated answer: Many years of schooling, and I'm still working on it...I'll keep you updated.
Her data/apps/everything are then stored at my house where I can manage them remotely.
My mom recently migrated to DSL. :D
.exe file for both.
She used to have a habit of opening any file sent to her via email. I told her flat out that if she continued to do that, I would no longer help her with her computer problems. She stopped opening those email attatchments.
When she got DSL, I told her to get a firewall. Its been a lifesaver.
I also have a regiment of software that I use on her computer, and mine, to keep it clean.
http://www.definitivesolutions.com/bhodemon.htm
It'll show you what "browser helpers" are installed on your pc, and you can disable them. Certain times they can reset the webpage on each computer restart.
There is also a site at http://www.spywareinfo.com/~merijn/index.html that includes a nice program, called CWShredder, that may help too. That malware (CWS) may also replace your homepage on restart.
quote: If you have a certain variant of the CWS trojan, this page may be blocked. In that case, you can reach this page through http://216.180.233.153/~merijn/index.html.
That site includes CWShredder, as well as HiJackThis. HJT includes features similar to BHO demon, but its a bit more thorough, and powerful, but you can fuck up your system.
Unfortunately, I can reach neither of those last 2 links.
Best bet? Try that first one. Also try an adaware and spybot search and destroy search on your system.
Also run spywareblaster to stop spyware and adware and malware from ever infecting you in the first place
http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblas ter.htm l
Proxomitron: http://www.proxomitron.info/
The filter set I use for it: http://www.jd5000.net/
Software firewall I use: http://smb.sygate.com/products/spf_standard.htm
For virus checking, I use the following.
Stand alone programs. No install needed. One
Stinger
http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/
From Network Associates.
quote:Stinger is a stand-alone utility used to detect and remove specific viruses. It is not a substitute for full anti-virus protection, but rather a tool to assist administrators and users when dealing with an infected system. Stinger utilizes next generation scan engine technology, including process scanning, digitally signed DAT files, and scan performance optimizations.
And free.
Antidote
http://www.vintage-solutions.com/En... uper/index.h tml
quote:The program equips with the same anti-virus mechanism we use in the standard products and it will detect viruses, trojans, worms, backdoors and other malwares.
Note: This program offers only the virus detection.
Again, free.
Does not interfere with any antivirus program installed.
One from Avast!
http://www.avast.com/i_idt_171.html
Says it cleans as well.
I also have a run-time virus checker that runs at startup and checks all files I run.
Anti-Vir: http://free-av.com/
For mail, where a ton of spyware viruses and whatnot coem in:
Mailwasher + Popcorn.
Mailwasher to see what mail you have. Just downloading the headers, to see what exactly there is. Easy enough to distinguish good from bad that way.
Well, unless you have 1000 emails to go through. I have normally 10 or so. So its not so bad.
And you can have a friend list, and a blacklist list. And it accepts wildcards. So all those aol peeps, you can blacklist 'em all.
And then you can use popcorn, which again, just downloads headers. You click a header, it then downloads the body. And you can have it still save it on the server for later.
Popcorn also renders no html. No web bugs, no viruses, nothing harmful from just opening an email. Never opened an email with an attatchment with it, tho I am sure it handles those mega safely too.
Mailwasher can also preview email.
Mailwasher:
http://mailwasher.net/
popcorn:
h ttp://www.ultrafunk.com/products/popcorn/
So far no problems, except that she complains that she can't use Excel or Access on it like they teach in her classes, and I didn't buy Office and don't plan to. Anyway she's been dropping out of those classes like a loser. So I suppose she mostly uses it to print web pages. Religious web pages. (big shudder)
Hah, I mostly just let their PCs fall to peices and give them the basic advice they need. If some stops working I fix it. I mean, I can't stop them from installing all kinds of ridiculous stuff. Especially with my older (not nearly as computer savvy) brother "helping" them out as well (by installing Kazaa non-lite et al.). It's an impossible battle. So I just fix things for them when they break and go into their startup every now and then and uncheck most of the junk programs.
As I said some years ago, the great thing about the Hurd is that you can always look forward to it.
Share and Enjoy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
the only reason my parents let me live at their house is cause their computer needs fixing all the time. so i try to keep it as instable as possible
Windows might have a lot of viruses and worms, but its all relational. Don't feel too secure about Apple / Linux systems just because you've only heard of the big bad names (BLASTER, SLAMMER) affecting windows.
As more and more people move to Apple/*nix from windows, we will start seeing more and more viruses, worms, trojans and exploits for those OS's. That's just common sense. What is left to be seen is how well their defenses will hold up and how quickly they will recover from large scale security exploits.
Microsoft still stands.
The competition probably won't, their pockets aren't as deep. Go ahead and take a look at the latest Linux, FreeBSD and OSX remote exploits and think about how easy it would be to incorporate those into a worm.
Only reason it hasn't happened yet is because famewhore virus/worm creators don't really care about the very small percentage of alt-OS users. If you're gonna wreak havoc on the net, cause as much mayhem as possible, you're gonna wanna hit the largest user base.
As those "other" bases grow, attacks on them will increase and lame-ass fanboys will start jumping off the bandwagon. Wait and see.
I simply educated them on proper use. My dad (58) uses the internet a lot and he was actually interested in more and better use. He knows enough to survive, so to speak. He also learns by surfing himself.
I don't know if the last 300 comments (or so) mentioned it, but installing a remote desktop-sharing application like RealVNC enabled me to save my parents/brother's PC a no. of times.
;-)
That, and having daily scheduled runs of AV (with auto-updates), Adaware (with auto-updates) and a registry-fixer (" " ") running, fixing and closing themself non-obtrusively, aswell as making a stable Mozilla-firebird (not-fox) nightly the default browser on a MS-machine.
Let's just say that the need to train and fix has been minimalised because of this.
Once the firewall is up, having IE running isn't that much of a risk any more.
But in any case, after ZoneAlarm it would be: OO, Opera, Eudora
Ofcourse, they run a firewall (Kerio) and antivirus and the system autoupdates itself. And as someone mentioned, running VNC on the box does help when strange things happen. But the main trick is to "scare" your parents so that they don't open every mail and accept every request from the computer (basically, if you didn't do anything to provoke the request, then it's a bad thing(tm)).
Just install a linux distro and no XFree, because everyone knows the best newbie interface is a CLI
-Nuff Said
To start with, don't use AdAware. It's completely off these days. The spyware program to use is Spybot Search'n'Destroy. It's free of charge and has an immunize mode that works well.
one word: MOZILLA
NO active x controls
NO popups
NO outlook (moz mail)
plus some serious tabbage. why haven't you switched already?
it's not a cure all, but it sure does help
It may sound weird, but neither mom nor dad has had any unwanted apps or viruses on their computers. This is especially strange since my compuer-illiterate dad has a celeron 366 system which still runs the same windows 98 installation as it did when it was bought brand new, and it hasn't gotten much maintenance from me except a defrag every christmas or so.
The same goes for mom, her win2k laptop is surprisingly clean, ie. no crud at all, dispite it being used all the time (and used with IE, dispite my tries to get her into a more decent browser)
What you suggest implies that the account mom should run would not be an admin account. All well, except that the automatic update feature of Mac OS X does not function unless you are logged in as admin, which ruins everything if you did not plan to be doing the check personally every other day. I know, as I am normally running my own OS X box with an account which belongs to wheel group and sudoers list, but not to admin group. Everything works well, except that the only thing the automatically triggered system update does is a message it puts to syslog, which goes like "user not admin, won't check anything".
Can't check that now though, as I am currently at work typing this on W2k machine.
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
My girlfriend's parents just wanted a computer to be able to have email contact with her while she was overseas. Their only computer experience before this was DOS. It's not practical for me to get there often, and (this being South Africa ...) since we're all on dialup, VNC wouldn't really be that practical.
...
So, they're running Mandrake 9.1 (with all the updates that were available at the time) with kmail and mozilla for internet use, and OpenOffice.org for the odd document, with a decent firewall config (no inbound traffic). It's running fine on a 2nd-hand Celeron 366 with 128MB ram that cost them under $200 at the time. Sure, it would have been better to set up automatic updates too, but updating KDE for a really minor vulnerability over a 33.6 dialup is a bit excessive.
Did I have to install patches for them for all the latest worms? Did I have to educate them about not clicking on attachments? No.
Have I (or anyone else) ever had to "fix" their computer? No.
The lowest maintenance solution (depending on the requirements the user has) *is* Linux.
Probably less than 5% of the people in South Africa would be prepared to pay for a Mac for personal use
I think some other guy was posting in the thread about SP2 about how this update gives a false sense of security, as there are still buffer overrun attacks that can be done even with execute page protection. I'm also sure the spyware will figure out some way around that auto-firewall (part of the install might be as simple as disbaling the firewall). So I'm not sure lazy users are at all out of harms way.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hi,
My dad has WinXP installed already, and he's very used to it. Thus I can't force him to drastic changes. The spyware programs were a nightmare. I used AdAware _AND_ Spybot S&D both to remove them. (Unfortunately neither of these two softwares can find all the spywares on their own.) That only solved the problem partly, bacause from time to time I have to run a full scan on the system. The solution was to tell dad to use Opera and/or Mozilla firefox, when he visits sites that could be harmful to IE. To get rid of the remaining viruses, I've bought nod32 for a year. What a perfect product! Cheap, small and fast. And there's the auto-update function. With it's resident protection and email protection there is no need to be afraid of viruses. Nod32 even found osome viruses that the Norton Antiviurs could not detect. (The virus signatures were the freshest.) That's my private experience. cheers, Szenty
Do we "migrate" our parents.
I can just picture the whole scenario. A note hanging on the kitchen wall:
"Notice! On March 18, parents will migrate to the new service as discussed in internal family-meeting on February 06. Should parents still have any questions, please feel free to contact the sys-admin (your son).
And, oh yeah, can I have some more pocket-money?"
The people in my family are smart, but unfortunatly they incessently bother me for help with their computers. What do I do when it becomes too much, or they give me a vague reference to what they want, I tell them it won't work that way, then yell at me when I try to give them the right way to get it to work?
Me: "Here ma, I have this 1000 page book, ooh, and here's another 826 page one, with a training guide. Hm,mm....better take along this 300 page networking manuel as well, and you'll need to refresh on your algebra and calculus skills."
I love em', but sometimes they need to know what they're asking.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
Give'em a linux box with a bare basic X. The only icon is a link for VMWARE. Install windoze on vmware and set it to readonly. Any changes just get wiped when it is powered down.
Safest method. Plus ipchains and ssh will allow you to monitor any attacks remotely.
It's pretty sad when the best answer to the question posed is: get a Mac.
1) that doesn't address his original question, you are just fixing the problem by buying a new computer with a new OS.
2) it's getting to the point where users can't protect themselves from a) their own computer and b) themselves on the computer.
it's not enough to have a hardware/software firewall, automatic update utility, spybot checker.
i deal with hundreds of computers daily on *nix, windows, mac, etc... and these problems continually come up (though with less frequency on non-windows systems for sure).
how about a real solution instead of everyone feigning to be the nerdy-slashdot-IT-guy-for-the-day?
My parents do not have a computer. Never had one and one day they asked me what kind of computer they should buy. I asked them why they needed a computer. Their excuse was to be on the Internet and everybody has one.
/.
I asked them what they wanted to know from the internet and the answer was basicaly 'stuff'.
I asked them if this 'stuff' they wanted from the internet, if it was only available there or if it would be available somewgere else and what would they do if they would not get this information.
Most of the information they wanted was available through either Yellow Pages, Travelagent around the corner or phoning someone. The things they could not find in this way would take a bit more time.
My parents are both not working anymore so they have all the time that they need. Not once have they regretted not to have a PC. They do get their information by asking opther people, wich means interaction with other people person to person and not over a website like
They have a great social life and realy never missed the a PC. Friends who they want to contact, they can phone. Some friends told them to get a PC, so they could email, because it would be cheaper then phonening my parents.
Talking to people is however much more satisfying ten just getting an email. Not even the smileys can change that. (It also forces me to call, instead of putting an emailscript in a cronjob to tell I am fine, how are you?)
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
1. Get your parents a Mac.
2. Install OS X and patch it.
3. Install any extra apps they'll need.
4. Create a managed user account for them that auto-logs in.
5. Deny access to System Preferences and granularly check off which apps are okay for them to run.
6. Turn on Safari's pop-up blocker.
Barring any hardware problems, the Mac will run like a champ. They can do email, web surfing, burn CDs, play with iTunes. All 100% virus and spyware-free, and no pop-ups. The prefect retirement from Windows.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
I'm just installing Slackware on my mother's new Laptop. With Openoffice, Firefox and other software, she won't notice the difference with windows. The hardest part will be to teach her to write "51@ckw4r3 Ru13z"....
War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
I mean, what would he need it for? Entertainment? I'm sorry, but I am not going to play support guru for my dad's entertainment. I support his text processing, because he writes books and so it's part of his needs. But if he wants to surf for pr0n, he should get a Mac.
My parents (both in their mid-sixtees) have a Debian Woody-based workstation (with KDE 3.0, OO 1.0 and Firefox) and a laptop that came with WinXP. I made it very clear that Windows is unsupported, end of discussion.
I've also spent hours explaining to them why free as in speech is important, and how morally corrupt MS is. They understand that they just can't ask me to support MS.
They are pretty happy with it. My mother likes it very much, she has few problems. Not only is she surfing, reading e-mail and stuff, she also uses Amaya to create web pages for her class. She use SFS to get them onto my machine. Dad's not quite so happy, because he has bought into that "I shouldn't have to learn anything to use a computer" crap. But I am getting him to realize how wrong that is (after all, he is a civil engineer), so things are improving.
I recently got Debian onto moms laptop, as I needed to borrow it. As far as I know, they are not booting WinXP a lot anymore, they are mostly Debian users.
Really, I would recommend that approach to everyone: Make them use the OS you think is good, and try to make that OS work well for them. You can do most administration tasks remotely by SSH.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
My decision to buy a Mac for my Mum has been one of my better ones. I sprung for part of the cost because she balked at the price and haven't looked back. When she bought a digital camera the USB interface just worked. She can select the prints she actually wants and send them via the internet to a local developer to be printed. The repeated waves of worms, virus and mal-ware don't affect her at all, so much so she thinks it is a scam and it really isn't happening to the extent it is. And I can support her with remote desktop from the EU six time-zones away. What else could I ask for?
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Don't (take responsibility for it, it will only cost you your sanity)
Looking at the link for "dangerous software" posted above, it says the only way to get rid of GAIN is to get rid of the app it came bundled with. Nonsense.
I downloaded DivX Pro and it came bundled with GAIN. Basically this is what I did...
Just after the installer finished, I opened the Task Manager and killed the "gain_trickler" process. After that, I went to the install folder and killed the actual program. Congratulations, it's "uninstalled".
Sometimes the trickler will download a newer version of itself and will stick it in a different place (usually "C:\Program Files\Common" from what I've seen) so you may have to kill THAT process as well and then in turn delete that application.
> after many a long tech support call
Well every time my family calls I switch into auto-support drone mode learnt from my first job which was tech-support. Thankfully I dont have to explain to them where the "spacebar" is.
I can't force them to use non M$ S/W, usually they have to comply to work policies, but my dad still calls me from abroad instead of the company's tech support!
First thing I did last time I visited was to put on SSH and VNC on his box, so he stops trying to delete system files.
> setting them up a webmail account on my server (spamassassin, clamav, several DNSRBLs)
Yup done that as well, to stop my mum receiving graphical spam and to stop my sister spread viruses(computer ones). Enabled IMAP and forwarding as some insisted on using local ISP accounts, but they are still scanned for spam and viruses.
My other Sig is very funny.
Danny.
I have written over 900 book reviews
Dood, I know this is /. and that we be abunchazealots, but still...
You can run Windows in a secure fashion. First thing: Disblable useless services (like Universal PnP, Remote *anything* and so on). Second: Setup separate user and admin accounts.
If you as a third move install third-party software for netuse (Opera, Mozilla. That kind of stuff), you'll need some pretty clueless people in order to screw the machine over.
The fourth and probably best move you can ever do, is setup a systempartition with only the system and applications (move documentfolders elsewhere), and take a Ghost-snapshot. Then if they somehow manage to screw up, you're recovered in 5 minutes with absolutely no hassle.
That's four simple goddamn things you need to do, and your Windows is bulletproof enough for any standard needs.
What's the problem? No really, what is the problem?
Yes, Linux may be better (for some things), but sometimes stuff like work ++ creates things called software issues, and VMware really is more of a hack than a solution unless you have the extra memory.
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
I just pretend to my friends and family that I'm a car mechanic, so I get to be shown all their nifty cars instead of being locked into discussions about driver problems during parties.
I am in the same position as you, looking after my parents' IT needs. I will shortly need to replace my parents current computer with a newer one, and am looking at a solution comprising a user-friendly Linux distro (such as ArkLinux) with OpenOffice for productivity. This should cater for most people's computing needs; you can surf the web, write email, type documents, do your budgets and more!
... fire is to let them get burnt. Seriously though. Let them use windows the way they usually would. Every two days, when they get a virus or manage to screw something up, just say 'Shouldn't really be using windows now should you?' If your a nice person, grudgingly fix it every now and again. But not to often. And when you do, swear at the computer as much as possible, and always whine about how this wouldn't happen under Linux/Mac OS X/*BSD. They'll come around.
My mother was used to a Windows enviroment for years. She used all MS products going from Office to MSIE. :-)
One day she had major problems with her box and asked me to fix it.
Today, she's using Gentoo with KDE, Firefox as a browser and OpenOffice for all her schoolwork. She even knows how to save a file in MSWord format if needed. She even loves GnuCash. My life is just so much more relaxing now.
Whenever I feel like it, I ssh my way into her box to update some stuff... She doesn't even know
Only one downside: she hates the password I gave her.
42 + 1 = 42
An emac is basicly the same performance as the iMac but for about half the price.. Could be worth considering. Although I'd go with a 14" iBook (80 year old woman = needs larger screen)
Good luck.
An admirable circumstance, plus an excellent solution to boot.
Sadly, I had no such good fortune when being tasked with rescuing my father-in-law's machine yesterday. First thing to do was uninstall his anti-virus software (what with it being five years out of date), and then install AVG 6.0 plus Spybot 1.2 and run those...
2,500 infected files, 90+ spyware items, and at least a dozen infected email attachments later, it was time to update his drivers and then spend a couple of hours in the company of Windows Update.
Now that the machine is back on its own two feet again, I've setup AVG to run at every boot and Windows startup. I've also set Spybot to run every Windows startup too. It's certainly not ideal*, but it should help save him from the more malicious kind of crap out there (or is it 'here'?).
* I acknowledge that my father-in-law's system could have had even better protection, should I have chosen to install something like Kerio Personal Firewall. But this was a favour - a helping hand - not an exercise in trying to completely confuse an infrequent user with an encyclopaedia's-worth of jargon. He just wanted to get back to browsing as quickly and painlessly as possible, and, given the quick turnaround, he's pleased with the results; everything is as it was, he's not lost any data, and his computer now has a good deal more protection than it did. It's non-intrusive too, which is even more of a benefit to a casual user. I guess the only real trade-off is that Windows takes a few moments longer to start up.
I installed (w98/micro) without IE on a P120 (old hardware for sure...) and set up ThunderFireBirdFox to use an IE icon with an IE theme. sure it's blasphemy but they won't notice.
The Awful Truth
I think you can configure Software update to run from console and run it as a cron job....
Just as I was, you'd be surprised at how many gui apps can be accessed in different ways from the console...
Have looked over a few of the comments here and they seem like mostly good advice. The only things that I can think too add are that it is worth taking the time to explain to your parents the benefits of filing things in one location and showing them an easy way of backing it up regularly (and explain why otherwise it won't happen). Having just had to comb through the remnants of my deceased Fathers hard drives looking for that vital information that he forgot to file in a safe place I can tell you that one day this will save you a lot of grief and heartache. On the flip side make sure that they DO have access and all the passwords written down somewhere so that should you get knocked over by a bus tomorrow then they don't suddenly have a completely useless machine which they can't do anything with without reformatting the drives.
I don't think you can surf in perfect security
Not without using your brain.
What kills me is that people won't walk dark alleys at night but they fail to exercise any caution on the internet, thinking that because they are in their home, they are safe. Wake Up!
I recently suspended my daughters account on my Linux box because I caught her trying to download .exe's for windows games/spyware/adware. She'll get her account back after she goes through some reprogramming.
My house, my network, my rules.
As for my parents - Mac 9 is what they use and it's manageable. But everyone I know on Windows is just chock full of spyware, adware, socks relays... Even the ones with all the AV software installed.
Even people I thought were sane about internet use were heavily contaminated. I don't think people fully realize how truly fucked up and insecure computers are in the real world. If you don't know what you are doing, even OpenBSD can become insecure. I think you should have an operators license to surf.
...click the X in the top-right corner. No matter if it says "Yes", "No", "Ok", "Cancel" or whatnot, that kills it dead. Oh and I do have Privoxy which makes sure that any window that opens *has* all the controls. Which kills any system message look-a-like pop-ups anyway. Nevermind the other pop-ups.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Two days later I get the call...
Well, I've learned the dumb (hard) way that if you plan on using Windoze, GO GET A VALID COPY OF NORTON and INSTALL SPYBOT or AD-AWARE and GOOGLE TOOLBAR. There is no alternative. Warez Norton won't cut it because you need constant updates.
So now he's on week #2 with no access. My sister just called me last night and said "I can't use my computer because it slows to a crawl." Oh yea, and don't forget my friend Bryan who just called me this weekend "I can't get on the net for some reason. What happened?" UGH!
I know exactly what you mean. I find that virus programs help a lot when keeping the pattern files up to date. Unfortunately they can't rely on automatic OS updates (56k connection), so I have to help them to defensively install selected updates - almost always after it's too late. A personal firewall is also a good idea, for both the experienced and inexperienced users.
Nay, not realy for my father in law of 70. He's got my mother in law to look after him ;-)
A simple box with heaps of RAM, no thrills-frills, Opera locked on Google, and an image on a hidden partition. No need for it yet, even when I placed the machine at their house about 2 years ago. He's getting there. Slowly but surely he's increasing his online capabilities of this golden day and age.
this happens...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You want Windows recommendations, a fact that some here have overlooked. Here you go:
;)
1. Install Norton AV and set it to autoupdate quietly.
2. Install ZoneAlarm in quiet mode. Don't forget to trust your IP address/range in the properties. Otherwise, you won't be able to pcAnywhere when they need you.
3. Install the Google toolbar with popup blocker enabled
4. Install Spybot and make sure you have the BHO blocker installed.
5. Install pcAnywhere or something similar, but DON'T leave it running. Put an icon on the desktop so they can start it easily. Write a script that will show ipconfig so they can give you their IP address.
6. Turn off unnecessary services
7. Delete shares
8. Look for a good Internet article on otherwise locking down your computer. I think the NSA has several official documents that talk about what to disable.
9. EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE. There is no substitute. If your parents are the trust everybody types, then you need to scare them a little. Hopefully, you won't need to do too much in this area given the software installed above. For instance, Norton will catch bad attachments, popup blocker will prevent most of the social engineering/marketing attempts, etc.
10. Oh yeah! Did I mention you need to GHOST the machine?
11. Check up on your parents from time to time to make sure they are O.K.
I know this may sound like a lot of trouble, but it is worth it. For you Linux zealots who believe your parents should be able to pick up Linux with little effort, you're dreaming unless your parents are wizards themselves. Save Linux for the back end, not Mom and Dad. Now that I'm off of that soapbox, I hope this helps
"Never tell me the odds"
Install Mandrake and put launcher icons for OpenOffice Writer, Evolution, and Galeon on a panel at the bottom screen of Gnome.
It seems to work for me...
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
Best thing you can do...make sure your parents aren't logging in as administrator!! (If using xp, linux, andything where there is a separate account for admin...). If using xp, make their "account" on the machine a non-privledged user...this will prevent them from installing anything...
Next is to make sure their behind some kind of firewall, preferably a linux box or cable router (I don't trust just the plain xp firewalling).
And the last step is to install tightvnc as a service on their machine! That way you don't have to drive all the way to your parents to fix their computer when nasty software gets installed, or their email gets "broken". Or if you just need to install software for them (since their not allowed).
Oh and make sure they only use software that is also available for linux (open office/mozilla/gaim etc). That way you can switch them to linux/bsd/osx and they wouldn't be the wiser...
I gave my parents a PC with Windows 98 four or five years ago, and my Mom has become reasonably adept at using email and surfing the web. But anything else, like installing updates (she actually reads the MS EULA's and gets very worried) or fixing any sort of problem--forget it. I'll often get phone calls about toolbars that have disappeared, which are easy enough to walk through even if I don't remember the nuances of Windows 98, but sometimes I'll get hard questions like "the computer is so slow now that it lags 20 seconds behind while typing or using the mouse" or "the computer's been slower ever since you installed the firewall." Now those are difficult to help with since I live 6 hours drive away. I can't expect her to look at all the processes using Task Manager, nor to start fiddling with ZoneAlarm or Spybot.
So my solution, upon my next visit, will be to upgrade her to Windows XP so that I can use Remote Desktop to fix all of her problems from here.
Looking for political forums? Check out "The World Forum".
My parents just got broadband cable (thanks Time Warner - it's about time!) and I bought them a wireless router (D-Link). We're upgrading my wife's iBook to a 12" PowerBppl G4 and will give them her "old" one (less than 2 years). My dad uses it when he visits and loves the fact that he can sit in his undies in bed and do everything he did on his PeeCee.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
As a 60 year old grandfather, I find this assumption that youngsters are computer whizzes and anyone over 40 is digitally illiterate comical. I have to fix my kids computers (all college degreed.), do any mods, set up firewalls, tweak the AV, teach them about spyware etc. My six year old grandson is less likely to mess up his computer than his folks.
I do the same thing for the company where I work and right now the only people I can trust to do anything like delouse an adware infected machine or setup a new e-mail account in Outlook, even with me telling them step by step, are two middle aged ladies in a couple of branch offices. The 20 and 30 year olds are either totally helpless, or worse, know just enough to really screw things up.
When we stopped my dad from using IE and Outlook/Outlook Express our lives became much simpler. He now uses Mozilla.
He no longer gets viruses (but he had virus software... don't know...Stuff just seemed to stay in old messages or the addressbook. Only have talked to him about it remotely and I know very little about Windows)
He has come to understand about bitrot on Windows and the lack of security. Can't quite get him to jump to Linux but he is showing interest in accessing the Internet through a Linux firewall.
In the recent past I worked (7 years) as a Java/C++/Perl programmer
for a failed Internet startup. I have a MSCS and feel reasonably
competent when it comes to writing code, but I'm no system
administrator. Of course that does not stop friends and family from
asking me to administer their systems.
I also work as a musician for a well funded successful arts
organization. My musician boss found out I was a geek and asked me to
come to his house and 'fix his computer'. Somehow I couldn't find the
guts to turn him down.
My boss runs Finnish XP since he's from Finland. When I showed up to
his house he had a laundry list of things he wanted done: everything
from setting up a wireless network to lots of Windows owies he
couldn't make go away.
While trying to setup and debug the network he sits over my shoulder
and watches as error dialog boxes pop up. They are all in Finnish. I
ask him 'what does that say', after much groaning he replies 'many
buckets of rice have fallen on the floor'. Another apparently says
'your big dog cannot live in my house'.
For some of the MS owies I call MS support (he's MSN) and they say
'whoaaa there dude' cannot do Finnish XP, call Finland. They say they
will open an issue if I pay them but they cannot guarantee success.
At the end of the day (5 hours work so far) I think I have most of
the list complete, but I live in fear of the phone ringing.
I have been fighting this one myself. I just ended up reinstalling my mother's PC from scratch to clean it before she got her broadband installed. Now that she has it, I am very scared. All of the software is a start but parents really need to be forced into educating themselves on what dangers exist. Without the awareness, you can't eliminate the risk. That is at least without setting them up on a Mac which has been suggested but the reality is, that will only be a temporary solution. Macs are becoming more common and given their base in BSD, have already been seen to be more vulnerable than previous versions.
I recently posted a link to This Article on my site. It is a security checklist for home users released by security focus. It provides very basic explanations for a number of home security issues.
Steve Hendrie www.stevehendrie.com
And just kill your parents.
Enough already.
My parents used to take away my PC for relatively minor transgressions. In school, I was considered a goody-goody. To my parents, and I kid you not, I was a "punk." Funny, I was the only punk in school never to get in trouble. And now I'm a computer security consultant, doing quite well, in fact, with a book in the making through Syngress Publishing and other such fun things. I've worked in the building where the A Root server used to be (until just very very recently) at Network Solutions/VeriSign, and I've done a few different types of work at over a dozen Fortune 100 Corporations.
:)
But as for my parents...keeping their computer safe? Fuuuuuuuck them.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
Yes, but what about the CHICKEN? What happened to it after two weeks? Ants? Mold? Smell?
I'm thinking of installing Kerio on my parents PC but what I need to avoid is it asking any questions (hence Kerio and not Zone Alarm). Did you find it easy setting the right ports to leave open?
Also, are you running the latest (version 4 I think) Kerio?
Cheers!
My girlfriend knows very little about computers. In fact she even hadn't used a computer before we met.
Now, she uses my computer to send email, browse the web, paint pictures, connect to icq/jabber, play card games, write letters, etc.
All under OpenBSD.
She doesn't find the system complicated. She isn't lost because she didn't use Windows before. KDE is just perfect for her.
She had to use Microsoft Office once at her daily job. And she was totally lost : "what is this? why are there tons of buttons and toolbars everywhere? why is it so ugly? where are virtual desktops?".
{{.sig}}
I am the IT Tech for my entire extended family. I do upgrades for them, fix bugs, send reminders for updates,and generally keep them free and clean. I recently migrated my mom to Mozilla, installed a router with a firewall, as well as a software firewall on her system, stripped her system of spyware, and set up scheduling for disk cleaning/archiving/defrags. Her virus scan is and OS updates are automatic (though I check periodically to make sure she isn't getting spyware). She has decent spam bloackers on. She has gone months without any issues, of course it helps that I locked my brother off her system, since he has a tendancy to visit the seedy underbelly of the net.
" My next house will have no kitchen - just vending machines and a large trash can. "
You suspended her account because she was uninformed and tried to download some stuff you consider harmful? You sound like my dad, who disconnected me from the network entirely for months because he didn't like that I downloaded so much and thought I was going to get viruses...on my 14.4 modem with a Mac. The same dad that I talk to about once a month...over email. Lighten up or your daughter is going to hate you and once she gets out of the house, your restrictions will become worthless. Hope you didn't want to see her very often, 'cause the only time you will is when she wants money or free food. And that's only if you're tolerable or she's desperate.
I'm not trying to start a flame-war with you, it just strikes a deep nerve in me when I see other parents acting how mine did. I'm sorry it sounded harsh, I'm just trying to warn you that your strict and harsh tactics will NOT payoff for you in the long run. It'd be far better for you to have to deal with a virus once or twice and kindly educate her than have her hate you for years. Learn to be gentle, is my advice.
Get them something with xp/2000. Put a really good lockdown on the system (local security policy). Put mozilla or firefox on it for a browser and bit defender for anti-virus, disable automatic updates!
I was forced to do that to mine they screwed theirs up bad so now they can't even change their background or install anything without me.
Ok, this may seem like a cop out, but it's true.
I gave my parents my old machine and it had windows 2000 installed. It was so full of viruses and adware and spyware it slowed the computer down. I barely get enough time to administer my machines and I have to make time to fix theirs. It takes up both our time.
After installing Windows 2000 and XP, I had enough. I tossed in the latest slackware, threw the software that they use; mozilla, opera, open-office, print services and sound, and that's it!
I customized their user account on fluxbox so they get the speed and comfort. I changed the program selection to only the ones they use. Plus, I even put a dockapp that tells weather and temperature.
It was just so much easier knowing when they browse, mozilla or opera will prevent pop-ups. And the ones that do get through, won't install some software. Plus, they're able to open their email and check attachments without fear of viruses. Every once in a while I SSH into the computer to see how things are going.
The less your users know about Windows, the easier the switch will be.
I'd put up a dual boot for my aunt some time ago, she's coping fine too and asked if I could remove Windows as she wasn't using it anymore. Naturally, you shouldn't force the switch if you can't help them out in the beginning, but in that case just let them try it out and let them make up their own mind.
This sig is intentionally left blank
I'll support Linux or Mac. My parents are running Mandrake 9.1 at the moment, I'll upgrade them next time I'm over there. In the mean time, the important thing is that their e-mail and web access continue to work, whereas with Windows they got completely wiped out four times in less than a year.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Not just for mom, but quite a few of her acquaintances, as well. What have I found?
I've been thinking of writing anti-spam software, myself. I'm good analysis programming and have done well with it.
A Word of Warning: Most "free" software isn't free. You will pay for it with the sudden torrent of black market advertisements sent to your EMail account.
Lately? I hope everybody has:
Good luck with it...and CYA. It's rough out there, now.
I have installed mandrake 9.1 on my 87 year old Aunts computer and on my 78 year old uncles computer neither one is having any trouble. (The uncle was using XP the Aunt had never used a computer before)
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
Don't click anything.
1. Install Linux on it
2. Install VMWare on it
3. Install Windows XP in VMWare with disk in undoable mode
4. Install any software they might have a need for
5. Commit the disk
6. Switch disk to nonpersistent mode
Voila, an iron-clad installation with basically zero support requirements. If something gets hosed, all that's required to fix it is a virtual "power cycle" in VMWare and everything is back to a fresh start.
If they actually want to permanently install something, just shut down the VM, switch to undoable mode, reboot, install the software, shut down, commit, switch back to nonpersistent mode.
Solved this 2 years ago. I use an embedded Windows system.
I boot the machine, create a large RAMdrive, copy Windows and all of the applications (from a compressed "image" file that is static) onto the RAMdrive, and then run Windows from the RAMdrive. If there is a problem, reboot the PC. Everything goes back the way it was.
I support half a dozen "family" computers this way. One image file for all of them. If someone wants something, I make a new copy of the compressed image file and send it out on CD to all of them. Updates, new programs, the entire bit.
It's unbreakable, runs all the applications that they want ("But I want to use XYZ screensaver!" - Uggg), and I no longer get any phone calls from family/friends asking for computer support.
Everyone that's "techy" that I show this to thinks I'm nuts, but it's no different than Knoppix, but runs faster (completely in RAM, not running off a CD) and is compatable with the general set of applications that "normal" people want to run.
I use this on my home and work PC's. I can run every application that my work requires. If I want to run an application to try it out, I load it, and when I'm done, I reboot. This includes viruses, unplug from the network, doubleclick, and see what it does. When I'm done, reboot and everything is like new.
robluce1@yahoo.com
There is no cocoa/carbon OOo. But, there IS a good OSX installer for the X11 version which takes care of everything, including making a little dock icon like everything else has.
Apple usually emulates right click by control-click or command click. (there also option-alt click) It's a bit more annoying, because it takes two hands.
My biggest complaint for Apple is not shipping a multibutton capable mouse on their laptops (even if all the buttons were, by default, the same button) The OS apparently does support it, and there's a fair number of third-party options for a desktop, but I don't exactly want to have to take apart a powerbook just for that.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
It's quite simple with my parents. They don't have internet at home, mostly because my dad is a technophobe. He can crash any computer just by walking into the room. :)
The only safe PC is one thats not connected to others!
I suppose you could try that with a Pee-Cee if you're a masochist...
Windows XP with policies, it works for my customers, it should work for parents also.
The problem with Norton Internet Security & Norton Firewall is that they disable gzip compression thus making the browsing of html pages at least 5 times slower.
Saxtus
on this note of protecting our parents, I recently had my dad install MyIE2 (saw it on TechTV a couple weeks back, had my fiancee install it, she loves it)
it gives pop up blocking as well as tabbed browsing to IE..so its pretty handy..its a shell type thing. Imports all their favourites etc
I'm surprised no one mentioned it (maybe they did..there are alot of posts on this topic)
Maybe there is something wrong with it? I usually figure TechTV is pretty straight and I can't imagine they'd list one of their downloads of the day if it had spyware or some major malfunction.
Open the config page, Network Security/Applications tab. Button in the lower right called Packet Filter - click the Add button and it will let you filter on a protocol (tcp, udp, etc), local port, remote port/address, mix-and-match style.
& relatives
1. Install Linux on it
2. Install VMWare on it
3. Install Windows XP in VMWare with disk in undoable mode
4. Install any software they might have a need for
5. Commit the disk
6. Switch disk to nonpersistent mode
Voila, an iron-clad installation with basically zero support requirements. If something gets hosed, all that's required to fix it is a virtual "power cycle" in VMWare and everything is back to a fresh start.
My mother-in-law has AOL on a Windows box, and every couple of years we need to wipe the disk and reinstall from scratch because there's just too much crap to clean up. It's a bit safer running XP now (expletive deleted couldn't get the Win98 or WinME disks to read...) and it's an ugly mess, but she likes AOL for the content and for chatting with her friends. She saves all her stuff on AOL, and doesn't use the disk much, so the reinstall approach really is pretty clean. But it's much much more trouble.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks