But imagine if some government in the 19th century had laid out a "100 year technological plan". WIthin decades it would have been the laughing stock of the world. We aren't leading the technology, it is leading us. This is just more humorous Chinese hubris. In my opinion, they will have hit critical mass in their middle class long before then, thats when you'll see the real revolution over there.
Yes indeed. In most discussions on slashdot, I come across one comment, whether modded up or not, that I would call "the definitive response" for that discussion.
First of all, by most accounts, these illegals are well paid - well above minimum wage, and not the slave labor rates that so many like to claim they are making. The benefit to the employer is not having to pay payroll taxes, which is a huge hit to any company
Err, what? I don't know how many businesses you've run, but dodging taxes on payroll has one major downside... you can't claim your payroll as a business expense. So either you're paying peanuts (and small peanuts at that), or you'd be a lot better off just to pay the taxes. Its set up like that. Anyway taxes aren't paid on top of wages, they are taken out of wages. Businesses pay them slave labour rates because they can, and because there is literally no financial gain otherwise.
Regardless of how advanced ANY civilization gets, it will be limited by POLITICS and the SPEED of LIGHT from ever colonizing outside it's native star system.
How exactly do you presume to know either the psychology or the lifespan of ANY alien race, if they even exist? A more full of shit statement I have never seen, and thats saying something.
But the end state is a world without genocide, without terrorism, without the impending threat of mass destruction and loss of life. A world where nobody has to worry about having their children hacked to death with machetes or blown to fragments by explosives.
Genocide can and has been ignored by world powers by the simple method of not labelling it "genocide", which invokes certain protocols. Thats why we hear about "ethnic cleansing" these days. Terrorism is the response of poorly armed and organised private individuals to a perceived threat by a vastly more powerful force. If forces were equivalent, they would just form a regular army and go to it. You need to deal with the root causes of terrorism, not shoot back. Step one would be to stop interfering in other countries' politics proactively (Shah). Same applies to mass destruction, a phrase so overused it may as well be a godwin these days.
Heres a man who has forgotten more about war in all its guises than you or I will ever know, explaining the true purpose of the modern army.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
In creating that technology, they are forced to develop a tech and industrial base that they did not previously have available.
Arguing the economic benefits of a space program in a country with 300 million unemployed, and 75% of the population living on under a dollar a day, is a bit mad. The Indian economy needs to apply a triage process and focus first on the neccessities. If they are good enough at those, they can sell their advances abroad, while benefiting their own economy and domestic social situation.
The problem with that line of attack is that no realworld experience in the field is created before the products are developed. So the country will have the technology and industry, but no one who knows how to apply it in a practical and safe manner.
This isn't borne out by any real world examples; the Japanese did it, the Chinese and possibly the Koreans are in the process of doing it, the Indians could do it too, handily enough.
Of course you can. You just won't understand the practical applications of those advances until you've had lengthy experiences with them. So the foreign designs will [i]still[/i] end up superior to your poor attempts at copycatting.
Less lengthy than trying to figure them out on your own for the next forty years, believe me. Or believe Japan, if you like.
Your example is actually the exact opposite. It's not a charity.
Err, can you point out to me exactly where I said anything about charity, at any point in this discussion? I really don't know where you are getting that. In any case, easy access loans for development are effectively "pouring money upon the poor", although its not a straightforward handout.
To be honest I think you might be so impressed by the concept of a space program (and it is a very impressive feat) that you are missing the practical implications of exactly what the money spent on it could do. Even if it was used in a similar manner to that womens bank, from their own figures it could generate a thousand dollars per person over time, or to put it another way, raise 900,000 Indians far above the poverty line. Now while that might not seem like a lot in terms of a population of a billion, its a hell of a lot more than a space "industry" will generate, and I might point out that the people likely to benefit most from the employment and opportunites inherent in a space program are the well educated and affluent anyway; it does little but reinforce the gaps in class and income already in existence.
You're thinking in terms of TVs and microwaves, which might as well be on the moon (yuk yuk) to someone whose biggest concern is getting some semi clean drinking water to last them through the heat of the coming day. You need to walk before you run.
It's not that easy. Mass Transit manufacturing would leave a company reliant upon the government for its funding, same as a Space Program. Car Manufacturing sounds like a good idea, but it's very difficult to compete with foreign imports. Something that Maruti Udyog, Hindustan Motors, and Bajaj Tempo (now "Force Motors") can tell you.
So you're telling me a space industry would be easier?
Those industrial and technology bases can then be used used to close the gap between the local capabilties and the much greater industrial/tech bases of foreign countries.
Back in the 60s, that was true. Now its not nearly so much. It would be far simpler just to beg, buy, borrow or steal (cf China) other people's advances since then, if you can't just reverse engineer them with all of these engineers we keep hearing about, than to pour much needed capital into a prestige project, which is what the space program in India is. Hell, they already have the cheap skilled labour, theres no reason they can't follow in China's shoes, or do even better.
This idea of pouring the wealth directly onto the poor is a very heartwarming sentiment, but it tends to do much less to actually solve these people's problems than if the money is spent on programs that make use of profitable business ventures.
Believe me, I'm about as far from a fuzzy eco-hippy as you are likely to get. I do like to think of myself as pragmatic however, something this space program is not. Oh and as it turns out, pouring money directly on the poor (which I wasn't advocating in any case) actually has very positive effects.
You could start an entire industry with $900 million dollars? You don't say! Maybe that's why that is exactly what India is doing with it -- the space industry, to be precise.
Its a piss poor return on your investment, would be my point. A country like India needs to triage its economy, not pin flashy medals to its chest.
So the solution is not to create new jobs, technologies, and industries with a Space Program, but to simply dole out the money to the poor until there is no more left?
The number of people that could be employed by a space program is dwarfed by the number of people who could be employed in, for example, car or mass transit manufacturing, especially if there was a focus on more ecologically friendly cars, a bonus for both India and the gargantuan market next door, Europe. Other industries might include waste processing, domestic goods, medical instruments, the list is endless, and almost all of these provide a far better return on your investment than a space program, interms of putting food on the maximum number of tables and educating the maximum number of children.
Its very easy to provide simplistic solutions about what other countries should or shouldnt do without living there or seeing the complete picture
For a more complete picture, you need to realise that there are almost as many unemployed in India as there are people in the US. So yes, that money could have been put to better use. I could start many, many businesses, even industries, with $900 million.
Shouldn't US have rebuilt New orleans and Missisippi devastated by Katrina before jumping into the Iraq War?
The US was in the Iraq war before Katrina hit.
The poverty in US at that time was high enough.
I do not think that word means what you think it means. The poverty line in India is a whopping 1 US dollar per day according to the world bank, and the government on India puts it at around a third of that. About 75% of India is under this level. In the US however, the poverty line is $9800 per year, about thirty times that of India, and only 12.7% (as of 2004) of the population fall beneath that. Comparing the US investment in space with the Indian investment in space given their relative domestic situations is a bit ludicrous.
How does propagandistic shit like this get modded up? Palestinians, men, women and children are teh turiririrists. Fucks sake. Die in a fire or whatever means of transportation suits your fancy. Your sky beard will be pleased. Mod this crud into the topsoil, and frankly bar the account from slashdot. We are far better than the tedious, dry, sermonising likes of this. yo0 f4il it.
They are talking about using guided munitions for these weapons, and with the velocity they fire at, you'd need to be aiming at some agile little vessel to miss. Also from what I gather from the posts above, the rate of fire limitation isn't power supply, its maintenance and ensuring the rails are not damaged by the firing. This is the same problem faced by vulcan cannons and the like, dealt with by multiple barrels in rotation. With that in mind you could stack a few clusters of fifty of these things all up your coast and have a fire rate of 500 a day per cluster, assuming you don't simply have removable rail components, which will push up your fire rate even further. These would also serve a significant anti-aircraft and anti-missile role, not to mention anti satellite.
That would be a significant threat to any navy or airforce.
The empire had its beginnings in the 15th and 16th centuries, nearly 5 centuries before World War II began.
Take a look at these maps, detailing the expansion of the british "empire" over time. Note the immense expansion in and after the 1850s. Gatling guns and howitzers can have that effect. Really what that shows is that the "empire" lasted a grand total of about 70 years. Geniuses.
Also, to say that the evacuation was their biggest success is ignorant; they (and the commonwealth) were significant participants in all theaters.
Yes, featuring such victories as "the Americans supplied us with war materiel", "we're getting bombed by the luftwaffe again", and my all time favourite "We can sit on our island cowering for as long as we need". Legend.
There is a world of difference between a bronze sword and an iron sword. And there is an incredible difference between a naked barbarian with a club or axe, and a fully armored soldier with tower shield, iron sword, and a vast array of siege technology behind him.
The bronze age was finished for hundreds of years before the foundation of the Roman Empire. If you're talking about Egypt, that was still bronze weapons versus bronze weapons. And still you persist with this delusion that the technology used by the Romans and the Gauls were substantially different. Learn the difference between technology and training, technique and organisation.
Or since you appear to be of the less intelligent persuasion, let me spell it out for you. Can you tell the difference between a 25mm cannon firing 8 rounds a second with a muzzle velocity of 500m/s, and a spear hurled by a tribesman?
You have been owned, you muppet. As was your ludicrous little "empire".
India, China, Middle East had free and prosperous trade for five thousand years before the Portuguese showed up in gunships and blockaded India's west coast.
Wonderful to hear about how all of these major landmasses had free and prosperous trade for many years before the advent of the Sumerians, never mind the Egyptians.
The real story here is about the western powers using military power to move economic objectives, and that's something that Asia is still coming to terms with.
Oh and yes, I am English. I'm not proud of an accident of birth, and we have done a lot of terrible things in the past, as well as a lot of good.
You should be proud, the british have brought a fair bit of good to the world. However the british empire wasn't one of those things. My original post was not to shoot down the british generally, just the muppet reminiscing over "the good old days", and rule brittania. Personally, I don't find the slaughter of the mostly defenceless to be anything to celebrate unless you happen to have a swastika tattooed on your neck.
As you're Irish I could blame you for the death and destruction the IRA caused, except of course I know that it isn't your fault.
Ah yes, but no one voted for the IRA, house of lords notwithstanding. Also comparing a group of homegrown partisans with the mass export of high-tech butchery isn't exactly a good parallel. It wasn't the inherent superiority of the british way, or the stiff upper lip or any of that nonsense; it was the equivalent of interstellar aliens nuking some ewoks. Any semi-competent army in Europe at the time would have beaten the tar out of them.
Just as the terrible things done in Britain's name 200 years ago isn't the fault of modern Britons.
Well if they would stop proudly trumpeting about them, perhaps I will stop knocking them down.
Grow up and chill out you old bitter nut.
Right back atcha, limey.;-p Seriously though, no harm to you or yours, I just object for the reasons I outlined above.
To say that the British got the "arses roundly handed to them" when they faced an equivalent enemy is foolish.
Oh okay, so the fact that the greatest military achievement of the british in WW2 was to successfully evacuate their army would be a falsehood?
They went toe to toe with the French and Spanish for an awful long time. (And the French were no pushovers either... They were THE land power for a long time).
Which is why britain conquered France and all of France now enjoys a good spotted dick with their rum, sodomy and the lash... splendid.
Reference the Spanish, or the French, or any of the other various nations that colonized the Americas.
I didn't say any of them were free from blame, either.
Your statement that previous empires went after countries with equivalent tech levels is also foolish; many of the empires came about precisely because the country had superior technology.
Ah here you are confusing superior methodologies and tactics with superior technology. Lets face it, any inbred bucktooth with a gatling gun can mow down a few hundred african spearmen, and often did. If you can't tell the difference between two men with swords, and one man with a machinegun and another man with a spear, theres not much I can say to you.
In short, you're an idiot.
Snigger.
Edmund: Well, you see, George, I did like it, back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. he kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass.
George: Now, come off it, sir -- what about M'boto Gorge, for heaven's sake?
Edmund: Yes, that was a bit of a nasty one -- ten thousand D'watushi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and guava halves. After the battle, instead of taking prisoners, we simply made a huge fruit salad. No, when I joined up, I never imagined anything as awful as this war. I'd had fifteen years of military experience, perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying "Do you do it doggy-doggy?" in Swahili, and then suddenly four-and-a-half million heavily armed Germans hove into view. That was a shock, I can tell you.
I have a Scots mother, lived in England for six years, and was married to a girl from Finglas for nine years.
Who cares?
The only place I tasted worse food than England was Ireland.
Who cares?
But I guess that's why you invented Guiness - to wash the horrible taste of boiled cabbage and potatos from your mouths.
Is there a point to any of this at all, or are you just going to rattle on about your culinary experiences after apparently marrying the worst cook in Ireland?
No, you illiterate moron, I said it encompasses a vastly greater scope and, in doing so, scales racism against black into relative insignificance.
I never met a civil service lifer with any but a great deal of spare time to argue their own immense value, so I'm going to save you the bother and wrap it up here. You attempted to put the position of teachers in the same ballpark as the position of races which have been discriminated against. Now I understand if someone has recently tried to lynch you, shove you in a gas chamber or you have been denied jobs based on your profession, or something like that, but really, what a farce. You should be ashamed for defending such a stance. But you're so used to arguing with minors that you just don't recognise when you have had your ass handed to you.
Had you spent more time in school paying attention, instead of smugly telling yourself how much cleverer you were than the teacher, you would probably not only have been able to grasp that point, but also comprehend that "discrimination" is dependent on neither a) ethnicity nor b) proportion.
This may be a difficult concept for you to understand, tinker bell, but I really don't care about school. You might also google sophistry while you're about it. All of my comments to date have been from an objective viewpoint looking back. And when I see shitheels like you turning the violent persecution of millions into a talking point, words truly fail. I mean it. I'd have to paint a picture or something. Visualise a snot gone wrong, if you must.
Here's a heads-up, you presumptuous twat - I've never held a public service job in my life. I just have some respect for an endeavour that is one of the foundations of civilisation (and even more now I know they had to put up with an arrogant arsehole like you - assuming you've even made it out of school yet).
Now theres a steaming heap of bullshit if ever I've seen it. And again with the jesus complex - YOU OWE US! Hahahah... Innovation and creativeness are the foundations of civilistion, twerp, not regurgitating received wisdom. You are exactly all I have come to expect from the teaching profession.
Earlier empires had a distinction as opposed to the british empire; they went after countries with roughly equivalent military technology. The british on the other hand being the only major island nation in Europe, had access to all of the jolly high tech weaponary of Europe, and a fleet to go out and deliver the sharp end of that technology to spear wielding cultures throughout the world. When it came to a toe to toe battle against an equivalent enemy, the Germans or Japanese, the british got their arses roundly handed to them. It took the overwhelming force of the USA and Russia to defeat Germany and Japan.
Sooo, gatling guns versus spear slingers. Thats something to be proud of. And its worth noting that the "empire" (snigger) collapsed as soon as the aforementioned spear slingers figured out which was the business end of the aforementioned gatling guns.
Oh and as for moving the world forward, its amazing how far ahead these other cultures move without incompetent british overseers bungling up the works, India being a case in point, Ireland another. Quite a lot of Africa and indeed the current shambles in Iraq can be laid squarely at the feet of the brits too.
Slashdot Mirror
You know, you could have posted the same information without the insults, so why do it?
You must be new here.
Its the dust. Sigh.
But imagine if some government in the 19th century had laid out a "100 year technological plan". WIthin decades it would have been the laughing stock of the world. We aren't leading the technology, it is leading us. This is just more humorous Chinese hubris. In my opinion, they will have hit critical mass in their middle class long before then, thats when you'll see the real revolution over there.
Yes indeed. In most discussions on slashdot, I come across one comment, whether modded up or not, that I would call "the definitive response" for that discussion.
Today, you win it.
I really don't have any idea why anyone would use a credit card in the first place.
First of all, by most accounts, these illegals are well paid - well above minimum wage, and not the slave labor rates that so many like to claim they are making. The benefit to the employer is not having to pay payroll taxes, which is a huge hit to any company
Err, what? I don't know how many businesses you've run, but dodging taxes on payroll has one major downside... you can't claim your payroll as a business expense. So either you're paying peanuts (and small peanuts at that), or you'd be a lot better off just to pay the taxes. Its set up like that. Anyway taxes aren't paid on top of wages, they are taken out of wages. Businesses pay them slave labour rates because they can, and because there is literally no financial gain otherwise.
Regardless of how advanced ANY civilization gets, it will be limited by POLITICS and the SPEED of LIGHT from ever colonizing outside it's native star system.
How exactly do you presume to know either the psychology or the lifespan of ANY alien race, if they even exist? A more full of shit statement I have never seen, and thats saying something.
But the end state is a world without genocide, without terrorism, without the impending threat of mass destruction and loss of life. A world where nobody has to worry about having their children hacked to death with machetes or blown to fragments by explosives.
Genocide can and has been ignored by world powers by the simple method of not labelling it "genocide", which invokes certain protocols. Thats why we hear about "ethnic cleansing" these days. Terrorism is the response of poorly armed and organised private individuals to a perceived threat by a vastly more powerful force. If forces were equivalent, they would just form a regular army and go to it. You need to deal with the root causes of terrorism, not shoot back. Step one would be to stop interfering in other countries' politics proactively (Shah). Same applies to mass destruction, a phrase so overused it may as well be a godwin these days.
Heres a man who has forgotten more about war in all its guises than you or I will ever know, explaining the true purpose of the modern army.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
I think you are being incredible arrogant.
Doesn't make me wrong...
In creating that technology, they are forced to develop a tech and industrial base that they did not previously have available.
Arguing the economic benefits of a space program in a country with 300 million unemployed, and 75% of the population living on under a dollar a day, is a bit mad. The Indian economy needs to apply a triage process and focus first on the neccessities. If they are good enough at those, they can sell their advances abroad, while benefiting their own economy and domestic social situation.
The problem with that line of attack is that no realworld experience in the field is created before the products are developed. So the country will have the technology and industry, but no one who knows how to apply it in a practical and safe manner.
This isn't borne out by any real world examples; the Japanese did it, the Chinese and possibly the Koreans are in the process of doing it, the Indians could do it too, handily enough.
Of course you can. You just won't understand the practical applications of those advances until you've had lengthy experiences with them. So the foreign designs will [i]still[/i] end up superior to your poor attempts at copycatting.
Less lengthy than trying to figure them out on your own for the next forty years, believe me. Or believe Japan, if you like.
Your example is actually the exact opposite. It's not a charity.
Err, can you point out to me exactly where I said anything about charity, at any point in this discussion? I really don't know where you are getting that. In any case, easy access loans for development are effectively "pouring money upon the poor", although its not a straightforward handout.
To be honest I think you might be so impressed by the concept of a space program (and it is a very impressive feat) that you are missing the practical implications of exactly what the money spent on it could do. Even if it was used in a similar manner to that womens bank, from their own figures it could generate a thousand dollars per person over time, or to put it another way, raise 900,000 Indians far above the poverty line. Now while that might not seem like a lot in terms of a population of a billion, its a hell of a lot more than a space "industry" will generate, and I might point out that the people likely to benefit most from the employment and opportunites inherent in a space program are the well educated and affluent anyway; it does little but reinforce the gaps in class and income already in existence.
You're thinking in terms of TVs and microwaves, which might as well be on the moon (yuk yuk) to someone whose biggest concern is getting some semi clean drinking water to last them through the heat of the coming day. You need to walk before you run.
It's not that easy. Mass Transit manufacturing would leave a company reliant upon the government for its funding, same as a Space Program. Car Manufacturing sounds like a good idea, but it's very difficult to compete with foreign imports. Something that Maruti Udyog, Hindustan Motors, and Bajaj Tempo (now "Force Motors") can tell you.
So you're telling me a space industry would be easier?
Those industrial and technology bases can then be used used to close the gap between the local capabilties and the much greater industrial/tech bases of foreign countries.
Back in the 60s, that was true. Now its not nearly so much. It would be far simpler just to beg, buy, borrow or steal (cf China) other people's advances since then, if you can't just reverse engineer them with all of these engineers we keep hearing about, than to pour much needed capital into a prestige project, which is what the space program in India is. Hell, they already have the cheap skilled labour, theres no reason they can't follow in China's shoes, or do even better.
This idea of pouring the wealth directly onto the poor is a very heartwarming sentiment, but it tends to do much less to actually solve these people's problems than if the money is spent on programs that make use of profitable business ventures.
Believe me, I'm about as far from a fuzzy eco-hippy as you are likely to get. I do like to think of myself as pragmatic however, something this space program is not. Oh and as it turns out, pouring money directly on the poor (which I wasn't advocating in any case) actually has very positive effects.
You could start an entire industry with $900 million dollars? You don't say! Maybe that's why that is exactly what India is doing with it -- the space industry, to be precise.
Its a piss poor return on your investment, would be my point. A country like India needs to triage its economy, not pin flashy medals to its chest.
So the solution is not to create new jobs, technologies, and industries with a Space Program, but to simply dole out the money to the poor until there is no more left?
The number of people that could be employed by a space program is dwarfed by the number of people who could be employed in, for example, car or mass transit manufacturing, especially if there was a focus on more ecologically friendly cars, a bonus for both India and the gargantuan market next door, Europe. Other industries might include waste processing, domestic goods, medical instruments, the list is endless, and almost all of these provide a far better return on your investment than a space program, interms of putting food on the maximum number of tables and educating the maximum number of children.
Its very easy to provide simplistic solutions about what other countries should or shouldnt do without living there or seeing the complete picture
For a more complete picture, you need to realise that there are almost as many unemployed in India as there are people in the US. So yes, that money could have been put to better use. I could start many, many businesses, even industries, with $900 million.
Shouldn't US have rebuilt New orleans and Missisippi devastated by Katrina before jumping into the Iraq War?
The US was in the Iraq war before Katrina hit.
The poverty in US at that time was high enough.
I do not think that word means what you think it means. The poverty line in India is a whopping 1 US dollar per day according to the world bank, and the government on India puts it at around a third of that. About 75% of India is under this level. In the US however, the poverty line is $9800 per year, about thirty times that of India, and only 12.7% (as of 2004) of the population fall beneath that. Comparing the US investment in space with the Indian investment in space given their relative domestic situations is a bit ludicrous.
How does propagandistic shit like this get modded up? Palestinians, men, women and children are teh turiririrists. Fucks sake. Die in a fire or whatever means of transportation suits your fancy. Your sky beard will be pleased. Mod this crud into the topsoil, and frankly bar the account from slashdot. We are far better than the tedious, dry, sermonising likes of this. yo0 f4il it.
They are talking about using guided munitions for these weapons, and with the velocity they fire at, you'd need to be aiming at some agile little vessel to miss. Also from what I gather from the posts above, the rate of fire limitation isn't power supply, its maintenance and ensuring the rails are not damaged by the firing. This is the same problem faced by vulcan cannons and the like, dealt with by multiple barrels in rotation. With that in mind you could stack a few clusters of fifty of these things all up your coast and have a fire rate of 500 a day per cluster, assuming you don't simply have removable rail components, which will push up your fire rate even further. These would also serve a significant anti-aircraft and anti-missile role, not to mention anti satellite.
That would be a significant threat to any navy or airforce.
The empire had its beginnings in the 15th and 16th centuries, nearly 5 centuries before World War II began.
Take a look at these maps, detailing the expansion of the british "empire" over time. Note the immense expansion in and after the 1850s. Gatling guns and howitzers can have that effect. Really what that shows is that the "empire" lasted a grand total of about 70 years. Geniuses.
Also, to say that the evacuation was their biggest success is ignorant; they (and the commonwealth) were significant participants in all theaters.
Yes, featuring such victories as "the Americans supplied us with war materiel", "we're getting bombed by the luftwaffe again", and my all time favourite "We can sit on our island cowering for as long as we need". Legend.
There is a world of difference between a bronze sword and an iron sword. And there is an incredible difference between a naked barbarian with a club or axe, and a fully armored soldier with tower shield, iron sword, and a vast array of siege technology behind him.
The bronze age was finished for hundreds of years before the foundation of the Roman Empire. If you're talking about Egypt, that was still bronze weapons versus bronze weapons. And still you persist with this delusion that the technology used by the Romans and the Gauls were substantially different. Learn the difference between technology and training, technique and organisation.
Or since you appear to be of the less intelligent persuasion, let me spell it out for you. Can you tell the difference between a 25mm cannon firing 8 rounds a second with a muzzle velocity of 500m/s, and a spear hurled by a tribesman?
You have been owned, you muppet. As was your ludicrous little "empire".
Actually, my apologies, some rancid shitbird appear to have edited that entry. Long may they rot. Here is a fuller account...
India, China, Middle East had free and prosperous trade for five thousand years before the Portuguese showed up in gunships and blockaded India's west coast.
Wonderful to hear about how all of these major landmasses had free and prosperous trade for many years before the advent of the Sumerians, never mind the Egyptians.
The real story here is about the western powers using military power to move economic objectives, and that's something that Asia is still coming to terms with.
May I introduce you to Smedley Butler...
Oh and yes, I am English. I'm not proud of an accident of birth, and we have done a lot of terrible things in the past, as well as a lot of good.
;-p Seriously though, no harm to you or yours, I just object for the reasons I outlined above.
You should be proud, the british have brought a fair bit of good to the world. However the british empire wasn't one of those things. My original post was not to shoot down the british generally, just the muppet reminiscing over "the good old days", and rule brittania. Personally, I don't find the slaughter of the mostly defenceless to be anything to celebrate unless you happen to have a swastika tattooed on your neck.
As you're Irish I could blame you for the death and destruction the IRA caused, except of course I know that it isn't your fault.
Ah yes, but no one voted for the IRA, house of lords notwithstanding. Also comparing a group of homegrown partisans with the mass export of high-tech butchery isn't exactly a good parallel. It wasn't the inherent superiority of the british way, or the stiff upper lip or any of that nonsense; it was the equivalent of interstellar aliens nuking some ewoks. Any semi-competent army in Europe at the time would have beaten the tar out of them.
Just as the terrible things done in Britain's name 200 years ago isn't the fault of modern Britons.
Well if they would stop proudly trumpeting about them, perhaps I will stop knocking them down.
Grow up and chill out you old bitter nut.
Right back atcha, limey.
Heh, you have a pretty distorted view of history.
Somewhat less so than yours.
To say that the British got the "arses roundly handed to them" when they faced an equivalent enemy is foolish.
Oh okay, so the fact that the greatest military achievement of the british in WW2 was to successfully evacuate their army would be a falsehood?
They went toe to toe with the French and Spanish for an awful long time. (And the French were no pushovers either... They were THE land power for a long time).
Which is why britain conquered France and all of France now enjoys a good spotted dick with their rum, sodomy and the lash... splendid.
Reference the Spanish, or the French, or any of the other various nations that colonized the Americas.
I didn't say any of them were free from blame, either.
Your statement that previous empires went after countries with equivalent tech levels is also foolish; many of the empires came about precisely because the country had superior technology.
Ah here you are confusing superior methodologies and tactics with superior technology. Lets face it, any inbred bucktooth with a gatling gun can mow down a few hundred african spearmen, and often did. If you can't tell the difference between two men with swords, and one man with a machinegun and another man with a spear, theres not much I can say to you.
In short, you're an idiot.
Snigger.
Edmund: Well, you see, George, I did like it, back in the old days when the prerequisite of a British campaign was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns -- even spears made us think twice. he kind of people we liked to fight were two feet tall and armed with dry grass.
George: Now, come off it, sir -- what about M'boto Gorge, for heaven's sake?
Edmund: Yes, that was a bit of a nasty one -- ten thousand D'watushi warriors armed to the teeth with kiwi fruit and guava halves. After the battle, instead of taking prisoners, we simply made a huge fruit salad. No, when I joined up, I never imagined anything as awful as this war. I'd had fifteen years of military experience, perfecting the art of ordering a pink gin and saying "Do you do it doggy-doggy?" in Swahili, and then suddenly four-and-a-half million heavily armed Germans hove into view. That was a shock, I can tell you.
I have a Scots mother, lived in England for six years, and was married to a girl from Finglas for nine years.
Who cares?
The only place I tasted worse food than England was Ireland.
Who cares?
But I guess that's why you invented Guiness - to wash the horrible taste of boiled cabbage and potatos from your mouths.
Is there a point to any of this at all, or are you just going to rattle on about your culinary experiences after apparently marrying the worst cook in Ireland?
Hahah, look hes still talking.
No, you illiterate moron, I said it encompasses a vastly greater scope and, in doing so, scales racism against black into relative insignificance.
I never met a civil service lifer with any but a great deal of spare time to argue their own immense value, so I'm going to save you the bother and wrap it up here. You attempted to put the position of teachers in the same ballpark as the position of races which have been discriminated against. Now I understand if someone has recently tried to lynch you, shove you in a gas chamber or you have been denied jobs based on your profession, or something like that, but really, what a farce. You should be ashamed for defending such a stance. But you're so used to arguing with minors that you just don't recognise when you have had your ass handed to you.
Had you spent more time in school paying attention, instead of smugly telling yourself how much cleverer you were than the teacher, you would probably not only have been able to grasp that point, but also comprehend that "discrimination" is dependent on neither a) ethnicity nor b) proportion.
This may be a difficult concept for you to understand, tinker bell, but I really don't care about school. You might also google sophistry while you're about it. All of my comments to date have been from an objective viewpoint looking back. And when I see shitheels like you turning the violent persecution of millions into a talking point, words truly fail. I mean it. I'd have to paint a picture or something. Visualise a snot gone wrong, if you must.
Here's a heads-up, you presumptuous twat - I've never held a public service job in my life. I just have some respect for an endeavour that is one of the foundations of civilisation (and even more now I know they had to put up with an arrogant arsehole like you - assuming you've even made it out of school yet).
Now theres a steaming heap of bullshit if ever I've seen it. And again with the jesus complex - YOU OWE US! Hahahah... Innovation and creativeness are the foundations of civilistion, twerp, not regurgitating received wisdom. You are exactly all I have come to expect from the teaching profession.
Earlier empires had a distinction as opposed to the british empire; they went after countries with roughly equivalent military technology. The british on the other hand being the only major island nation in Europe, had access to all of the jolly high tech weaponary of Europe, and a fleet to go out and deliver the sharp end of that technology to spear wielding cultures throughout the world. When it came to a toe to toe battle against an equivalent enemy, the Germans or Japanese, the british got their arses roundly handed to them. It took the overwhelming force of the USA and Russia to defeat Germany and Japan.
Sooo, gatling guns versus spear slingers. Thats something to be proud of. And its worth noting that the "empire" (snigger) collapsed as soon as the aforementioned spear slingers figured out which was the business end of the aforementioned gatling guns.
Oh and as for moving the world forward, its amazing how far ahead these other cultures move without incompetent british overseers bungling up the works, India being a case in point, Ireland another. Quite a lot of Africa and indeed the current shambles in Iraq can be laid squarely at the feet of the brits too.
And hey, I love what you've done with your food.