Slashdot Mirror
China Tests Anti-Satellite Laser Weapon
schnippy writes "U.S. intelligence agencies believe that China has successfully tested an anti-satellite weapon by destroying one of their old weather satellites. The test, if confirmed, would be an order of magnitude more provocative than earlier reports of Chinese blinding lasers being. Arms Control Wonk has a good writeup on what this will mean for U.S. policy."
Or is it OK for the USA to have it but no one else ? I suppose it depends on who you consider the bad guys. I note that China has invaded fewer countries in the last 50 years than the USA has ... so what is the answer to the question ?
from the article:
"destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target"
so it was one of their own satellites. The US didn't own it - whats the problem?
Acid House saves Souls
Does it relate to the fact that the number of NASA's Earth-observing missions will drop dramatically, as reported yesterday on Slashdot?
Apple iProduct. Non importa cosa sia, lo comprerete!
Does "our own laser" refer to the planet, or some small insignificant country within it?
Not a lot really. America has a bad opinion of the China regardless, and this will only fuel its attitude. Thankfully, though, China has way too much control over the west's needs (what we import, is mainly manufactured in China) so we may see some Democratic approach to this situation (for once!).
ilovegeorgebush
That doesn't sound like a LASER weapon.
from the article: "destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile."
Lasers are not kinetic weapons. They are light-based.
The topic-writer appears to have been confused by the article mentioning that an earlier test used a laser to temporarily brighten a satellite.
Has US ever considered other countries? Even those they attacked?
Well, if understood literally, it is provocative: it may provoke the US to start an agression against China before they get stronger and less vulnerable; not necessarily with nuclear arms or with something like that, but with economic embargo and some dirty tricks we shouldn't be discussing here. OTOH, it can be misinformation in the best kind of the Sun Tzu style.
The only mention of lasers in TFA is about an incident several months ago, that involved the alleged illumination (not destruction) of a US military spacecraft.
This satellite was destroyed by "a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile." Could we have some more descriptive and less sensationalist headlines, please?
And this is different from any other country how? Maybe they feel it's just about time for China, the largest and oldest nation on earth, to keep up with the competition?
c++;
Just what we need. More junk clogging up our orbit.
and most of that by chinese prison labor working under the most
deplorable conditions
Do you have any figures to verify this, i.e what percentage of Chinese exports come from these supposed "prison camps"? Having been to Shenzhen I find your comments hard to belive.
Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
So before we start an arms race in space ourselves, do you think we should consider that the chinese are looking at a more effecient way of moving old satellites away from earths orbit. Did they indeed destroy the satellite or used this 'kinetic vehicle' to push it out of orbit and have it float away into space.
well, the good news that could come out of this would be a fresh injection of US dollars into space research & NASA, which would be good news for almost all fields in the scientific community, never mind the spin offs for the consumer world
Sounds like our massive nuclear stockpile isn't going to be reduced anytime soon, especially in light of this news.
stuff |
As would anyone that's been outside their own state in the US. The GP is just an ignorant troll, that will hopefully be downmodded to hell by those that have modpoints available.
c++;
Tom Anthony
Thousands of nuts, bolts, gloves and other debris from space missions form an orbiting garbage dump around Earth, presenting a hazard to spacecraft. Some of the bits and pieces scream along at 17,500 mph.
A 1999 study estimated there are some 4 million pounds of space junk in low-Earth orbit, just one part of a celestial sea of roughly 110,000 objects larger than 1 centimeter -- each big enough to damage a satellite or space-based telescope. (excerpted from http://tinyurl.com/56tzo )
Here's where it gets interesting. Anticipating just such an offensive capability from china, many military satelites are hardened against laser and EMP damage. Which leaves kinetic attack as the simplest, most effective mode of disabling a satellite.
The problem is, it creates enough floating crap in orbit that any real attempt to disable US orbital capabilities will effectively eliminate huge swaths of orbital real estate for hundreds and thousands of years.
For this reason, many have been trying to phase out Kinetic Energy ASAT programs. With the chinese regard for the environment well evidenced on the ground, its not likely they'll be shying from the simplest means of retiring another nation's offending satellites.
Be honest, if you are a worker for a chinese company, you can consider it a prison camp. Having seen some incredible television docu's on working conditions in China, I think a prison camp is a correct description.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Considering that they shot down one of their own satellites, perhaps the US could shoot down one of their own satellites. From a European perspective this would be the funniest escalation of hostilities since Freedom Fries.
I dont see the USA caring all that much for the environment nor global warming Censorship is on the rise also, particularly of scientists "do as i say, not as i do" anyone?
U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq: http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0509-07.htm
- They are increasingly becoming a war power
US has invaded more countries than any other I can think of.
- The land of bicycles is increasingly becoming a land of car owners
Gobsmacked with this hypocacy from the wolrds biggest oil consumer per capita!
- They are filling the west with cheap manufactured goods
So don't fucking buy them then!
Nobody is forcing you to buy cheap shit.
Do you complain about global warming because sombody sold you the fuel YOU are burning!
Wake up and smell the morning dump sunshine.
Not looking at the state of the world from the other dudes point of view is the reason the US is so poorly regarded by the rest of the world.
America first, dude! A dictator in the whitehouse, military running amok all over the middle east (watch this space), global warming contributions, funamentalist influence. Don't act like the US is some beacon of how a country should be run. To the rest of the west it's quite the opposite. I apologise if this sounds like an anti-US rant, but I guess it technically is, as it's countering an anti-Chinese rant by demonstrating the hypocrisy employed by many people with regard to not acknowledging their own country's short comings, and jumping on another's.
i find the reaction among american media sources stunning, Its as tho the chinese premier had taken a shit in the white house garden. American military spending approaches 500 billion dollars a year. Chinese military spending verges on 90 billion. While it was irresponsible for the chinese to have endangered orbital vehicles, it is nowhere near the chest beating call to war that some of the linked articles have made it out to be.
prepare the survey weasels.
Just take out their anti-satellite satellites with the US Navy's new uber railgun?
One of the 187.
Hold China to the standards here in the West? By that you obviously mean:
1. Being a war power is good (being able to engage 'enemies' on a worldwide scale to suit your needs is better)
2. Trade bicycles for cars (how could they! I mean the West is predominantly bicycle commutering isn't it??)
3. Grow parts of the economy for maximum profit without respect for the long-term effects on the environment etc(Hmmmmm - let's see how fast the Arctic can melt while the West continues to pump out C02)
I think you will find China is on more of a level playing field with the West than you would like to believe...
Nothing witty
I believe they may still be considering the actions the USA took against them in the 1930s and 40s. Bon chance.
If it weren't for the rocks in its bed, the stream would have no songs.
It s no moon...
According to international space convention, outer space is considered like Antarctica and not supposed to be used for military or economic self-interest. Spying satellites do not truly comply with this convention, and firing a laser from the ground would indeed be self-preservation.
I also notice military news generated more buzz when China was the subject.
Things like censorship, product safety, military issues, global warming contributions, and anything that seems enough of a problem to become a law in western countries should be forced upon the Chinese government.
Half of these things the US is guilty of:
Excuses Are Like Assholes - Everybody's Got One
As Northrop Grumman has just opened a factory for high energy laser weapons in Redondo Beach, California. Admittedly they're aiming to shoot down ballistic missles and systems to protect buildings and areas.
Sharks with lasers on their heads?
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
So bringing light to the hypocrisy of a poster is trolling? Are the mods out of their minds on this one? Sure, America doesn't come out looking that good, but shit - that's no reason to mod it as trolling. How the fuck are bad things the US does supposed to get discussed on /. if any mention of them is called trolling? Mod, grow up.
I certainly won't claim that China wouldn't have pressed ahead with its anti-sattelite weapon if the US hadn't stated space hegemony as its policy objective, but in terms of being provocative it really seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black. The US space policy is confrontational if nothing else.
I'm fairly confident that the recently unveiled US space policy caused a massive "Oh yeah? We'll see about that!" response among China, Russia, India, and perhaps others too.
Due to rising unemployment of sharks in their country, China was forced to begin developing weapons that could be mounted on the sharks' heads so they could have a job again.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Oh, you saw it on TV? Then it must be true! Fox News can't be wrong, can they?
Having been to China for a month, and visiting some factories, I can assure you that the standards in the new factories are pretty much the same there as in the western world. Older places looked like they could have been from the western parts of the world, just 50 years back. Would you call that prison too?
Reading these slashdot posts I can understand why many Americans seem to think that randomly invading other countries isn't that bad, since living anywhere else than in the glorious United States of America must be like living in a prison camp.
<rant>how come 'slashdot' isn't a valid word in the firefox spellchecker?</rant>
c++;
Mr President, we MUST not allow an A-SAT gap!
So what happens if you put mirrors on your satellite? I don't know much about optics. Even if it's a powerful laser (from the head of a shark?), wouldn't it just bounce off a reflective surface?
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
Hey, actually it was a sarcastic post, but the tag didn't post?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Some of the first satellites ever put into orbit were taken out by EMP when the USA tested nuclear explosions at the extreme atmosphere limit. (Radioactive particles are still found in sealife in the ocean from that area)
In a real war you can bet we'd do it again, and again.
Maybe this will offset all the Global Warming.
first the story that the baiji, the blind chinese river dolphin, has gone extinct
now the announcement that the chinese have an advanced laser weapon
there's only one obvious conclusion: the extinction news was a lie, a cover up...
it isn't sharks with frickin' laser beams they're building, it's a top secret corp of dolphins with frickin' laser beams!
that's a very clever twist, but i see through your cynical machinations beijing
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It is a provocation in the same way any new weapon is a provocation, but the response won't be military or economic. The response will be that the US starts upgrading their own anti-satellite weapon if they have not already done so and building in more stealth features to their old satellites. This starts a potential arms race, but that is it. Even then, I doubt it is going to be much of a race. The US has had known anti-satellite weapons for decades. It probably has other still classified anti-satellite weapons waiting in the wings as well.
The real 'provocation' in this is what it means for Taiwan. The US has been quietly backing away from its promise to defend the democracy of Taiwan in case of a Chinese invasion. Even now, the prospect of fighting over Taiwan makes the US uneasy. The US could certainly win today, but it would be far more bloody and dramatically more costly then Iraq. Such a war would have both nations getting itchy nuclear weapon trigger fingers. Now, to top it all off, China has the capacity to knock down US satellites making the military game much more dangerous while at the same time offering up a way to put a real hurt on American economic interests.
It is a good old fashion Mexican standoff. A war between the US and China is a war that both sides could lose (read that as going nuclear). Even if both sides agreed to take nuclear weapons off the table, the economic damage done to the US would only be matched by the massive economic destruction wrought on China. The whole issue is messy and ugly, and it is coming to a head. China WILL make a move again Taiwan in the next 10 years.
hahaha! Then I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, apologise for posting something that makes you look like a dick :) Seriously, that's not cool. Hopefully your post won't be modded into oblivion, and anyone looking at your post will see your sarcastic intentions :)
> Although this idiotic move by the Chinese government will demonstrate why we don't want hit-to-kill ASAT testing in orbit--that will be a long-term recognition. In the short-term, the Chinese will simply not be credible partners in efforts to keep space peaceful. Moreover, other countries could follow suit with their own anti-satellite programs, including the United States.
:-D
---
This statement made me smile. This is a very nice piece of propaganda. Who talks about peaceful space in the time when every other satellite in the space is the military one?
Well, I've got to get back to work. When I stop rowing, the slave ship just goes in circles.
So what ?
- The US is already a war power
- The land of car owners is becoming a land of SUV owners
- US products suck and/or are just to expensive for most needs
and neither the article, nor the writeup here, claim that it is.
Best Slashdot Co
Of course, the reason I stopped paying attention to the headlines here is that they often have litle relation to what's discussed in the article...
Best Slashdot Co
US Admiral: "Look at this, slitted eye! The Nimiz! The most phatt3st aircraft carrier ever build! Look what i can do!" ... *buzzz!*
*push button*
His colleague from the airforce: "You yellow little man think you can disarm ICBMs better than we can? I'll prove you that we disarm our complete arsenal in half the time your tech peons will find their screwdrivers, commi!"
Just what the world needs...
...another cold war.
A merican_Century
; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirconic; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samos_(satellite); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasar_(satellite); http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_(satellite).
c e).
you can thank the USA for that.
the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), a conservative think tank whose members include Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz (among other prominent republicans) places among its goals, the proposal to "control the new "international commons" of space and "cyberspace" and pave the way for the creation of a new military service -- U.S. Space Forces -- with the mission of space control." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_
Of course, we're talking about military control and that means in large part getting the upper hand in terms of information (WWII was won because of information). Hence the US fascination with spy satellites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacrosse_(satellite)
and let's not forget the National Missile Defense program, which will cost 53b US from the years 2005 to 2009 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaponization_of_spa
Title: China Tests Anti-Satellite Laser Weapon
First Paragraph of TFA:
U. S. intelligence agencies believe China performed a successful anti-satellite (asat) weapons test at more than 500 mi. altitude Jan. 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile.
I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
The article says nothing about a laser. I have no idea why the heading on this slashdot story has the word laser in it. The article clearly states it's a kinetic energy weapon (ie it's like a big bullet, cannonball, etc).
General: Mr. President it appears as if the Chinese have destroyed one of their own satellites with some kind of weapon.
President Bush (wearing an owl mask): O RLY?
General: Yes sir. This could be a great threat to our own satellites.
* President Bush removes the mask as this is "serious" business*
President Bush: I demand that you shoot down 10 enemy satellites in retaliation for this act of war, and we will invade Iran.
General: Sir, they didn't shoot our satellite, it was theirs. How can we retaliate by shooting their satellites when they didn't shoot any of ours?
President Bush: Because I am the President of the United States of America.
It has been here all along. The problem occurs when when you have ppl in power are not so democratically elected. A truly free election allows any issues such as foreign policy to be corrected. That is why countries such as Venezuela and Iran are not a real issue for America (as long as free elections are allowed). Problem is that China is not free. A few ppl will make choices for the whole and there will be no repercussion for them. China's current leadership is good about making long term choices and sticking with them. That is why they are busy stealing all the high tech that they can. Once there military is close to equal to America's, then the hot war will start. Sadly, I think that most of EU (including Russia) will sit on the sideline (Britain, Canada, and Australia will probably join us). Russia will quietly sell to both sides. All in all, they are the real issue for America, not the middle east.
BTW, pay attention to America. If any real provecation starts, it will be easy for current leadership to declare Martial law and control the citizens. That is due to allowing the military to control citizens, new spying (transportation, all telecommunications, mail, all of our spending via banks/CCs), and soon to be announced new federal ID required of all citizens to control immigration.
Just a predication.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
U.S. didn't even stop pursuing the cold war, as they continued the arms race solely, to get a quick advantage over other emerging powers as China, ASAP. And now, when someone else tests an effective weapon which can significantly (and cheaply) cripple U.S. surveillance power, suddenly they cry for "disarmament" - but obviously of all but themselves, as they keep pumping $500 bln/yearly into the war machinery and R&D (not eve counting Iraq expenses!). How lame, this doesn't have anything to do with defence, it's an aggressive armament with purpose to wage wars like one in Iraq.
I hope their shiny world dominance model will collapse sooner or later.
No kidding. They should learn from the United States. Look at all the good we've done in the Middle East. Them Chinese.... noobs at this world politics stuff.
Big dealeo!
You don't think we have a weapons pod that can be mounted in the bay of the space shuttle holding about 1000 interceptor missiles. I don't know if such a thing actually exists but I would be more surprised if we don't have such capability. Even if it had not already been developed I can't imagine in a crunch it would take more than a few month's for the US to build and deploy such a system.
early reports are claiming google earth is down indefinately..
It just might be...
During the last cold war was great for scientific advancements. Space Travel, Computing, the Internet, various materials, Nuclear Energy....
Cold Warfare is great for science. not as many people are getting killed but a lot of money and resources are going towards science and engineering to be prepared for war, and ahead of the other guy.
Now if we can learn about the lessons from the previous ones about things not to do. Such as using 3rd world countries a pawns (like bringing in a dictator with faulty elections vs. a Communist system) then it could be a good Cold War which would be a lot of fun for us.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
...in this foreigner's humble opinion: how accurate is this information? Is there a risk that we are seeing the whole WMD circus all over again?
Er Galvão Abbott - IT Consultant and Developer
It's as funny as nations conducting nuclear testing on their own soil!
Wait, that wasn't really funny at all. Maybe you had to be there.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Can the editors please consider actually RTFA before approving posts and headlines?
The satellite weapon referred to in the article is a kinetic kill vehicle which is clearly not a laser...
--- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
It's sort of like the difference between underground and atmospheric nuke tests. The US anti-missile tests are (so far) relatively low altitude, and usually on descending tracks. That's not exactly ASAT, I know, but it's an effort to minimize orbital debris.
I wonder if there's push and pull within the Chinese space community? China is a member of the IADC, which has one goal of reducing junk. NASA and the DoD sometimes argue over debris-producing "events", though I think the DoD wins those matches. Debris threats to the Shuttle, ISS, and commercial space are a big deal, and the DoD doesn't want its junk to punch a hole through someone's crew module.
Well, countries as well as people vary in the degree to which they can recognize enlightened self interest.
Throwing your weight around is not always the best way to get what you want, a lessone we've had to relearn here in the US these past few years.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The U.S. may spy on your communication, but they're not going to blow up the whole network just so their citizens can't visit a pro-democracy website.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Emphasis added by me.
I don't see how the Chinese shooting down one of their own sattelites is an attack, but at the end of the day, I guess that's all we need to remember out of all this: the Chinese attacked!
P.S. The "...is believed to have..." error exists in the original article. I left it there as a reminder of its quality.
To err is human, but to forgive is beyond the scope of the Operating System...
All you have to do to fix this is A make a stealth satelite that's not easily detectable, or B, Give it a mirrored surface that will back feed the laser and melt the son of a bitch to whoever is trying to fry our satellite. End of that problem.
The US did conduct a few anti-satellite tests in 80s but never deployed the system. So yes while the US has been talking about developing spaced based weapons and people Slashdot have been talking about how it is just another example of American Imperialism, China has developed an anti-satellite system. Russia has tested and put into service anti satellite systems now China has tested an anti-satellite system so the arms race is now on.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
You all are getting slow in your old age. ./ history.
Trim your beards and try to keep up.
Its not we pwn teh space, or we ownerz teh space.
its
ALL YOUR SPACE ARE BELONG TO US.
Know your
music lover since 1969
I am American and I have to agree with you about the removal of Saddam Hussein. The entire Middle East is unstable...why?? The citizens of Middle Eastern countries are oppressed by their leaders and poverty stricken, the only individuals that have power are the leaders and oil rich families. These countries have few sources of commerce, the main resource being oil; therefore there are few ways to overcome poverty. What does everyone know about poverty - IT LEADS TO CORRUPTION, DISHONESTY, AND THEFT. Add religous radicals to the fire and you have one heck of a mess.
Iraq was not ready for democracy and will not be anytime soon from the way it looks. As bad as this sounds, a dictator was needed to keep the country in check.
Unfortunately, I believe that we've made a big mistake and have involved ourselves in a war where the opposition's strategy is similar to that of the North Vietnamese...suicide bombs, remote detonation, etc... how do you combat that??? What did we do in Vietnam...we just left. The sad thing is that if we leave Iraq we're going to leave it in a chaotic civil war of political and religous parties that will ultimately end with another dictatorship and we'll be back at square one.
Can we fix our mistake - I don't know...probably not, at least not without angering millions, losing thousands of our own citizen's lives, and making our children and grand children pay for this continuing war. Is it worth it...I don't think so...what about you?
Pippatron, you're a jerk and that is the best compromise I could find weighing
courtesy, respect and the fact that you are an utter moron recycling
propaganda. Aside from their "special economic zones" 98% percent of China's population
lives in abject poverty if they're lucky and in "Laogai" prison camps if they're
a little less lucky than that.
The only really interesting thing is that a handful of people took on to my initial post here
all in all expending their mod-points to hammer it all the way down to -1.
The question however still stands... and I'll just repeat it right away:
Why does China still have Most Favored Nation status?
produce pieces that could damage other satellites and space hardware.
You mean not as many of "our" people are people are getting killed. If you look up a bit on the Cold War of the 80's, you'll see alot of policy of supporting fighting in other countries and many many people dying elsewhere. Hardly "fun" for those involved directly.
-- Humans, because the hardware IS the software.
Using, or even testing kinetic energy weapons on satellites is a bad idea.
There are significant problems now with space junk. There's a well documented case of a shuttle having a cockpit window damaged by a fleck of paint hitting it while in orbit - and the problem will only get worse. Fragmenting satellites means that eventually, any new satellites can't be launched - even armour plating won't work. And, launching into reasonable orbits for manned missions becomes impossible - the only place we'll end up being able to launch from is the poles, straight up, which means no assist from the rotation of the earth.
Now if the Chinese had demonstrated satellite capture - e.g. a big net + retro rockets to take satellite to a burn-up orbit, that would be good, and militarily, probably almost as effective. Smashing things up to leave a 'pile of rubble' in space for paople to launch into is a dumb idea.
I believe they may still be considering the actions the USA took against them in the 1930s and 40s. Bon chance.
What actions? By any chance do you mean when Japan attacked?
but I have karma to burn...
Why does China still have Most Favored Nation status with the US?
China has lasers? OMG!! Set the Doomsday clock to 11:57 ...it's almost over AAAAAAAHHH
looting anyone?
It's "Bonne Chance"
*Sorry for being a spelling nazi*
I just hate seeing words written/pronounced in French in a ill manner.
To keep on topic... Good thing for China... I doubt this will escalate to a cold war as China and USA are not on the same bad terms that the old CCCP and USA were
I say coat all of our satellites in mirror coat chrome and home they don't hit any parts that can't be chromed :P Then again, there's other ways of stopping light, especially if you know it's coming
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
The very first sentence of the article clearly states: destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile.
Why is this modded down and the parent is +5?
Give me a break.
Neither America nor China can afford a cold war. The cold war was born of a different political climate, post world war two, such a situation is unlikely to recurr. For one thing China has no Stalin. Contrary to what american politions were claiming, every soviet leader after Stalin tried to bring the cold war to and end, it was America's refusal to take part that messed each event, and it only ended when the USSR collapsed, which as it turns out was the worst way for it to possibly end, bar a war. The most they were able to do was agree not to blow up the entire world.
In light of the stated goal of the US to dominate space militarily, this is not something the can bitch about. China can legitimatelly argue, as the US would, that they are merely improving their ability to defend themselves.
> Censorship - Look at the things your government does eg censorship of games,
Violent games are not political speech in any meaninful way.
> trying to prevent flag burning,
When has the US ever tried to prevent flag burning. That would be very dangerous ground -- flag burning, although repugnant, is inherently an essential form of protected political speech, and MUST be permitted -- but I must have missed that news item, because I was not aware of its having happened. Can you cite an example?
> monitoring citizens/bloggers etc
Okay, monitoring is a privacy issue. Granted. Although comparing it with China's vigorous political censorship program is a bit... over the top. Nonetheless, it *is* an issue.
> Product safety - Right...
Agreed, the OP was being stupid on that one.
> Military issues - Whose government is an international joke for the wars it starts?
Germany, but I don't see how that's relevant here.
> Global warming
A stupid complaint also, yes.
> Forcing their government what to do - They are a soverign nation, not the 51st State of the USA
Agreed. We can't force anything. All we can do, at most, is break off relations. Which even at that could be construed as a little extreme.
We *should* be a little less timid about publically saying what we think about some of their more inane policies, however. The One China policy springs immediately to mind.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Reading about China blinding spy satellites gave me an idea, I think its possible that we could CCTV blinding lasers for.. say.. your advrage public privacy advocate.
Maybe just the fact of developing something like this would help discourage the use and expence of a mass city wide CCTV system being installed at the expence of the taxpayer. If they know we can blind there cameras en-mass that cost $4,000 to $7,000 apiece in one quick shot.. maybe they wont waste the (our) money.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
China just need to put all the dollars they have accumulated in market and boom!!! it would affect US economy more than if they a war instead.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bt2qaTfT8QY
Ok, so I'm not going to disagree that our space policy is not provocative; however, I think the provocation is minimal...the policy mainly discusses engagement of an enemy's space property in the event of a threat to the US, it doesn't say that we're going to just start destroying everyone's satellites and cripple their communication. Every time the US makes a statement regarding military strategy or defense our own people and the media twist it to make headlines and get a response...after all that is their job.
The reason that the development of weapons by other countries such as those in the Middle East, Korea, and China is provocative is that they are run by dictators. Often dictators make irrational decisions, and the world can't afford to have someone just pointing a weapon all over and shooting it off as if it were a water pistol.
Now, most of us are all guilty of irrational decisions; however, democratic nations are (supposed to be) designed so that a decision can not be made by one individual provided that one political party does not control more than one branch of the government. A majority vote is needed to engage in war. Therefore, the likelihood that the US will just start blasting off missiles, lasers, or whatever else is very unlikely - and that is why we feel that it is ok to have certain weapons and that its not ok for other countries.
As a side note from a proponent of democracy: that is the beauty of our last election, the Democrats kicked butt because the people are tired of the decisions made by the Republicans. Now the Republicans can't just run a muck.
Throwing your weight around is not always the best way to get what you want, a lesson we need to learn here in the US.
T,FTFY.
I had to read all the way down to here to find the shark comment.
you made me waste my last mod point...
I do not assume it at all. The vast majority of ppl do not want war, cold or hot. They want to live in peace and prosperity. The problems come in when leaders convince ppl to take actions that against their best interest. The invasion of Iraq is a great example. Likewise, Chavez is in the process of nationalizing the oil fields AND the production. This is going to backfire on them in a big way. Hopefully, citizens will not give chavez the requested unlimited times in office. But that is for them to decide. The same is true of Iran. They voted in sombody who they thought would solve the economic issues. Things have gone from bad to worse. As long as we do not interfer with Iran, the ruling party will be gone in 2 years.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
What do you think is easier, from the Chinese point of view: attempt to de-orbit the aging weather satellite or blow it to little pieces with a large hunk of steel?
Whenever Mrs. Fitch breaks wind, we beat the dog.
Oh really? Then how about going into a list of things that are wrong with YOUR country, instead of launching into a diatribe about the US? Hypocrite.
How does this junk get modded insightful?
STOP MODDING ON CRACK!!!
They are a soverign nation, not the 51st State of the USA
No, that's the UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOWBLugj9E
If you're in orbit, you're moving at 7.5 km/s (16777 mph) minimum. If you're moving slower than that, you're ballistic, not orbital. So everything in orbit is moving at least that fast, up until about 11 km/s, at which point you may leave the orbital environment.
... spectacular. But space (even LEO) is a pretty big place. I think it's quite the technological accomplishment for the Chinese to actually hit the target with a kinetic interceptor. (Note: I'm not commenting on the political implications of such an accomplishment.)
If you're concerned about relative velocities of spacecraft, then yeah, the collision of an equatorial-orbit spacecraft with a polar-orbit spacecraft would be
Democracy is what works for *us* (most of the time anyway), but forcing that on other people and countries should not be the way to propagate it, I think. A very wise man once wrote "war is the continuation of Politik by other means." That doesn't mean that it's right or wrong, it just is. Humans are warlike and tribal by nature. You have something I want or need and it's scarce; well, if you don't give it to me then I'll take it. You threaten me, or I perceive a threat, then I'll take action. People who believe in world peace are delusional. As long as two people can get into a fight in a bar there will always be war.
There are many tongues to talk, and but few heads to think. -Victor Hugo
You know its a discussion on american military when most of the more sensible and well thought out posts are modded as troll or flamebait....
$_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
The US is actually doing *exactly* that in Iraq: Do things our "democratic" way or we'll stay here and keep killing people.
I think this statement is not offensive for the sake of a difference in value judgment, but rather offensive for gross oversimplification and lack of logic.
The United States wants an end to sectarian violence in Iraq that prevents a democratic government from being successful. Likewise, sectarian fighters in Iraq want to continue committing acts of violence not only to kill their hated local enemies, but to embarrass the foreign invading power. To write that the US is "killing people" for not "doing it our way" suggest that the US is lining up random people (read: children) and executing them because the populace will not bow down the will of the US. I think that's completely unfair and inaccurate, though if you are skeptical of liberal capitalism then you may see it as spot-on and righteous (since, in that case, you would likely define the United States as the Enemy).
I must add here that I have given the short view what the Bush administration wants to achieve in Iraq. I completely disagree with what the Bush administration is doing in Iraq: it is short-sighted, politically correct, and destined to fail at the cost of American blood and treasure. My intent in disagreeing is to suggest to you that your view is inaccurate, which does not imply that the Bush administration is correct. I have to add this because of the tendency in this retarded political climate for people to immediately pigeon-hole me into "Bush worshipper" or "Bush hater" based on their own particular flavor of black-and-white thinking. I'm not talking about you, of course, but about the others who may read this and flame me as a "wingnut" or a "moonbat".
You can't force two peoples (in this case mainly divided along religious borders) to work together if they don't want to, and haven't in known history.
I see you write that, and I can't help but think of Saddam Hussein, who, through tyrannical rule, forced three peoples (in this case mainly divided among religious borders) to "work together" when they didn't want to. In fact, the notion that Saddam "brought stability" to Iraq is one that I have largely seen propagated by Europeans who oppose the Iraq war! Are you one of the ones to argue that Iraq was better off under Saddam Hussein because he prevented civil war from happening? If so, then it seems to contradict what you've written here ("You can't force two peoples...."). If not, then it would seem that the American nation-building fiasco is justified on some levels. Perhaps you see it a different way, but I see your position existing between a rock and a hard place.
Feel free to disagree, but that's my (possibly biased) point of view.
Of course you're biased. So am I. It only means that we have values and we stick up for them. There's a good chance that you'll think my values suck and I may likely have the same opinion of yours. The one thing I might ask of you is this: have you ever in your life radically changed the way you thought based on receiving and understanding contrary evidence? The number of times that you've done that is a measure of how open-minded you are. I'm generally not very impressed by individuals who "stand up for what they believe". Anybody can do that! It takes a very brave individual to change what they believe, and an even braver one who will examine things that they know are False(TM) knowing full well that it may change the way that they think and might even change who they are.
That said, Long live Western Culture! Islam delenda est!
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Whose government is an international joke for the wars it starts?
I don't see anyone else laughing...
Kinetic is not laser.
Laser did not kill
The Chinese government have been been quite nice about keeping our dollars in reserve, so the U.S. Government can print more with no inflation which we consumers then get to spend at Walmart on Chinese imports and DVD's with region coding and DRM, whereas the RIAA would rather that same folding money be used to buy CD's with region coding and DRM. Walmart is therefore more powerful than the RIAA, China keeps Most Favored Nation status, and the futon in Biejing that the dollars are stashed under becomes way to high to watch the new 108 inch LCD Television that the country bought to watch Ang Lee films.
this is the question you should ask yourself.
do you need cheap consumer products from china?
it is all market-driven. it is you, as a consumer who has the demand that will utimately determine when, where, and even how the products are manufactured.
Hm.. good idea ... only ... actually the chinese laws on cars in order to lower their oil consumption and greenhouse gas contribution, are a lot more demanding than in the US. So wait until China starts forcing things like global warming contributions upon the American government.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So where would these special economic zones you are talking about be, and where in my post did I indicate that I was visiting those?
c++;
Oddly enough, the original space weapon is much more low tech: the concept back in the 80s was to use an aerosol like can to spray a covering coat over the solar panels (and any lenses) of rival satellites with a paint like substance.
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
Wow! You've never had a history lesson have you?
The US, along with many other nations were busy carving up China amongst themselves at the expense of the Chinese. You might want to look up "The Boxer Rebellion" to learn more.
Live forever, or die trying.
I know this is Slashdot, but did anyone read the article? There is no mention that this is a laser based system at all. To quote, "destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile." That's not a laser, that's a high speed rocket launced from a larger missile. This isn't some laser based ground weapon, it sounds quite similar to the system that the U.S. has that is almost deployed for attempting to knock down ICBM's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ballistic_missil e , just applied to taking out a satellite instead of an incomming missile.
I was, and let my tell you my new appendages thank you!
don't know where your figure 98% comes from.
but here are some statistics just for your information:
china's population: 1300 million
china's internet users: 132 million
china broadband users: 77 million
china mobile phone users: 431 million (by July 2006)
vehicles sold in china: 7.22 million (in year 2006 only)
china has overtaken japan as the world's second largest car market after the US.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252215.stm
Overall, Chinese vehicle sales jumped 25% during 2006 to 7.22m units.
now you tell me how you can explain your number 98%.
Awesome!!!
Forcing their government what to do - They are a soverign nation, not the 51st State of the USA
You're right, we all know #51 is CanadaAll kidding aside, you're spot on. Now, how do you propose that we fix it?
"I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days."
I prefer the "e" and "o" in people as they seem to be missing from your posts.
Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
you can thank the USA for that.
Yes, I'm sure if it wasn't for PNAC the chinese would have never, ever cared about having anti-Satellite weapons! Hell, the military never used spy satalites before Bush was in office...right?
As for the grandparent post, a cold war is a bit tough to have when one country relies on the other to buy 25% of its exports.
Another interesting number taken directly from the CIA:
Population below poverty line:
These numbers are of course relative - a poor person in the US has more money than a poor person in china, however, most of the things you need over there are about 10 times as cheap as in Sweden (using this as a reference since it's where I spend most of my time); food, clothing, rent.
c++;
It's a long standing joke that the best thing that can happen to a country is to lose a war against the US and then get foreign aid pumped into your country. See The Mouse that Roared as an example.
www.joshferguson.org
OTOH, throwing your weight around is usually a good way to get what you want. A lesson that the US, China, and many other countries know.
>>> On the upside, we'll have some kickass war movies and video games to look forward to in another 20 years
Except with Tom Cruise putting on a Chinese accent instead of Sean Connery with a half arsed Russian one...
It wasn't modded down. It was posted anonymously, presumably out of fear of moderation. I don't know why that other post was modded up, but at least they were logged in. No guts, no glory.
At least China has some standards on how much liters per km a car can spend, unlike some country which name starts with "United States of America".
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
You know Russia and Canada are both larger then China right? Heck the US is almost the same size depending if you count Taiwan
d _outlying_territories_by_area
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_an
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
Welcome to the 21st century, it's not Germany anymore...
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
Yeah, everybody know is funnier to test nuclear weapons in foreign countries like... Japan... for example...
exp(i*pi)+1=0
What a wonderful compliment! If one thing I say may bring some peace of mind or greater understanding to one other person, then I'll count myself as fortunate. :)
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Well, I was of course talking about population. If we count the area, my own Glorious Kingdom of Sweden would be one of the largest countries in Europe!
c++;
"Contrary to what american politions were claiming, every soviet leader after Stalin tried to bring the cold war to and end, it was America's refusal to take part that messed each event, and it only ended when the USSR collapsed, which as it turns out was the worst way for it to possibly end, bar a war."
Let me put this as succiently as possible. Bullshit. In Nikita Khrushchev's own words, the Premier that followed Stalin for those of you keeping score, "We Will Bury You". This happened in the mid 50's. Then you have the Cuban Missle Crisis in the 60's. All I'm saying is that it is a two way street. Sure the US was involved in the continuance of the cold war, but so were the Soviets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
Thanks to all the greenhouse gases that China and the US produce, the world's alot warmer than it was 20 years ago. This at least will be a bit of a warmer cold war.
the 'we will bury you was rhetoric', did they not teach you about rhetoric? It means you are making a point, but not being literal all the time. He did in fact try very hard to reverse the nuclear standoff.
What I said was not that the USSR were doing there share of stupid things, but that when they did try and get round the table on a number of occasions, such as over Afganistan, they were turned away. And look what a wonderful thing happened to Afganistan, oh the stability....
" A truly free election allows any issues such as foreign policy to be corrected" That is a very one-sided and closed minded viewpoint. One could easily argue the opposite. (not that I'm a communist). A communist government can easily, almost instantly 'correct' its foreign policy. I don't see the US doing much to correct it's foreign policy. Who is to say the US foreign policy is correct and China's wrong. The US foreign policy is possibly as far 'incorrect' as China's . They are both just different.
Gah, your right! They are the largest population wise, oh well gotta love it when words have different meanings to different folks no?
Speaking of which, Thanks for Saabs and Volvos! Best cars on the road if you ask me. (From Texas,USA)
"Personal ownership is a hallmark of conservative capitalism. And I don't believe I am entitled to anything that I did n
"Censorship - Look at the things your government does eg censorship of games, trying to prevent flag burning, monitoring citizens/bloggers etc"
As opposed to putting people in jail for publishing books, making speeches, or buying stuff Nazi memorabilia from an online auction like they do in Europe?
"Product safety - Right... American companies have never tried to skimp on safety to save a dollar, SUV's anyone? Thats rich coming from the land of lawsuits."
SUVs don't have a bad safety record. You may complain all you want about their fuel economy but for safety they are no worse than most cars. They US has lawsuits because we hold companies responsible for safety.
"Global warming - The bulk of this has come from Western countries, why do you blame China? Maybe you should trade in your SUV for a bike, it may also solve America's obesity problem."
Actually there is a single coal seam fire in china that is emitting as much green house gas as all the car in the US. It isn't counted for China since it was the result of a accident and considered "natural"
"Forcing their government what to do - They are a soverign nation, not the 51st State of the USA"
What ???
Nice rant but no facts.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Yes, because (other than the possibility of a piece hitting somebody on the head) it's certainly dangerous to the country's citizens to shoot down one's own satellite in space. I mean, think of all the people that will be harmed by the fallout and radiatio... oh wait there's none of that. Pursueing a health-hazardous and dangerous test like dropping a nuke is not exactly all that comparable to blowing up an orbital satellite.
Seriously - did anyone even read the story?
"U. S. intelligence agencies believe China performed a successful anti-satellite (asat) weapons test at more than 500 mi. altitude Jan. 11 destroying an aging Chinese weather satellite target with a kinetic kill vehicle launched on board a ballistic missile."
The only time a laser is mentioned in the entire article is
"Neither the Office of the U. S. Secretary of Defense nor Air Force Space Command would comment on the attack, which followed by several months the alleged illumination of a U. S. military spacecraft by a Chinese ground based laser."
So the only laser involved here is one that is capable of illuminating, target painting, targets - not destroying them. The title is more than a little misleading - can we get an adjustment on it perhaps? Something like "Chinese successfully test anti-satellite weapon"?
China is the 2nd largest foreign holder of US debt, after Japan:
Major Foreign Holders of Treasury Debt
They basically act like one of our biggest credit cards.
Travis
When they say destroy do they just mean that they make the satellite inoperable or does it actually break into pieces as if it was blown up? I would think having a lot of small pieces of space junk floating around out there would be worse than one big piece of space junk. Hopefully the laser just disables the satellite.
Hey this is the same technology that President Bush used to asassinate JFK JR.
To Hell with the Queen of England!
Speaking of history lessons, the Boxer Rebellion lasted "from November 1899 to September 7, 1901" per its Wikipedia entry. It's from whence the US Marines got the phrase "gung-ho".
So how does sending support to Chiang Kai-shek's government during WWII constitute "carving up China"?
First thing ya gotta understand about history, see, is that different things happened at different times.....
Adherence to the truth is a form of disloyalty.
Yesterday, /. posted a Railgun story. Could these be all related? A railgun could take out a satelite with ease!
I would have to think it wouldn't be all that difficult to build what would essentially calculate the source of the laser to within a few hundred meters and relay that location back to earth allowing a conventional or tactical nuclear weapons strike. Just like a HARM it could ride the laser right to the source.
The easy way to address this is to make it very clear that illuminating a satellite during wartime/tensions will result in something blowing up at the source of that illumination. The question is how large is the equipment to run the laser? Is it mobile? That would determine how easily/quickly a response could occur. Obviously the target has to be illuminated for some period of time, whether that is from launch to intercept or only from orbit to intercept would point to whether some sort of supersonic cruise missile or ballistic missiles would be most effective. What happens if the illuminating laser is destroyed before the kinetic vehicle intercepts? I would hope it simply misses, so for me the ideal response would me an attack against both the source of the laser and the launch location of the kinetic vehicle assuming they are non-mobile or that they could be hit in such a period of time that damage could be caused to the military.
Another way to look at it is that a space-based anti-ballistic weapons project is underway anyway, why not expand it to attempt to conduct boost phase kills on the kinetic vehicles? I know the US can detect such a launch so they'd have to know it is coming.
Enough is enough? I hope you're not the cretin you make yourself out to be. If anybody has had enough of anybody on this planet, it's everyone having enough of the US and UK starting a Middle Eastern crusade and being complete dicks about it. Disclaimer: I'm British.
Wait, I thought you were talking about China, not the first six years of the Bush Administration.
The U.S. Constitution needs to be ammended with a "separation of business and state" clause.
now it is an 'anti-satellite' gap. Brought to you by the MIC. The Best That Money Can Buy (TM).
Your sig says you aren't American. But you vehemently defend America anytime it is criticized. Your nick is c6gunner, a reference to a Canadian machine gun? Are you Canadian? That's ADORABLE! A Canadian defending the US, awwww, how CUTE! Gosh, thanks lil' guy, we sure needed your help.
You probably think your precocious little country should be more like it's big brother, America, right? Maybe do away with all that socialist silliness, deregulate the heck out of everything, build a bigger military? Are you pining for a strong, dominant daddy figure like our Mr. Bush? Someone who will take charge and tell you what to do?
"Mmmmmm, daddy, I've been a BAD little Canadian. I need a SPANKING! Oh, yeah, Mr. President, give it to me! Give it to me good!"
Hey, how about defending YOUR country instead of the US, which doesn't need the help of any beady-eyed, flapping-jawwed Canadian. You people gave us Celine Dion. Nothing can ever make up for that. Not ever.
Taiwan has never agitated for complete separation from China. The Kuomintang (did I spell that right) wanted to run China, but Mao beat them, so they ran to Taiwan, and are waiting for the next revolution.
I think he is referring to the anti sat/missile stuff Reagan ordered.
The government can't save you.
It's interesting to see everyone flipping the fuck out over the fact that the US has performed more invasions than China in the past century, rather than flipping the fuck out about how a nation that murders, tortures and uses as unwilling organ donors the members of a government-opposed religious faction that's nothing more than a big fucking meditation party is building better weapons. I'd rather flip the fuck out about that than flip the fuck out about the United States of America policing primates and trying to get them to put down the femur bones.
Perhaps I'll get modded down for this, but I think you completely avoided the question. The United States is not some ideal place, but it does not mean that China is not bad. It is completely possible for you to rank the bad countries in the world and the U.S. and China (in my opinion) would be pretty high on the list. In my opinion, China is higher on that list. Why? Let's see ... Tibet was destroyed (not just physical destruction, but cultural and religious destruction), unfavorable religions are suppressed heavily (look up what they do to their Falun Gong prisoners, or even just the underground Roman Catholic Church followers ... not that official Chinese Catholic church), they attempt to control information in public and private matters, and their judicial system is a joke (their is an official system, but it is routinely ignored in even small cases). Pretty sure that you can't find much relating to their reeducation programs during Mao's reign (i.e. enslaving the intellectuals), or their financial and military support of North Korea (even if that country isn't a threat to outsiders, it remains a threat to every civilian stuck there) on their version of the internet. Why can't we sell stuff to them? Either we bought it from them in the first place, or they've already reverse-engineered the technology and sold it in their own markets. The Chinese Government is bad, in an old school sort of way.
You complain that Bush is bad, but I'm sure that if you and your wife were trying to have another child (say twenty years ago) and had it forcibly aborted by some government official, you might rethink your entire concept of bad. When my wife was there, she was very clearly followed by a police officer the whole time. Pump up all of the U.S. domestic spying programs and add in a nice xenophobic flair, and maybe you'll start to get why the parent poster and the DoD is a little bit alarmed. I'm sure that you don't wanna experience fundamentalist atheism, if you already have a problem with Christian or Islamic fundamentalism.
Funny... In book WarDay a similar weapon was the cause for a limited nuke war...
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_stee
Deleted
Remember when this all started and China kept saying, "No, we don't want to destroy satellites." and all the pundits kept saying "George Bush is a war monger! China means us no harm." Suspect this is going to end the same way Iraq ended, with the nieve Americans wishing for peace, getting blown away by foreign superpowers, and politicians conveniently turning it around by saying, "This is what you get for being sick capitalist bastards."
okay, i get largest (by population), but how do you come up with oldest? their government goes back, what, nearly 60 years, and there wasn't even an entity known as "China" less than a thousand years ago (despite what the neo-imperialist propaganda machine claims in their effort to stifle debate over their assimilation of their neighbors).
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
It's too expensive to employ American personnel, they'll be offshoring production to China in the near future.
Deleted
To be fair, the United States is the one starting a new arms race. USA backed out of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002. USA plans to put weapons in space, etc..
The US government reminds me of 'Tweek' from South Park, but with a gun. Perhaps if the US government changed their appauling foreign policies, they wouldn't be so 'tweeked' out about people coming to kill them. I don't know about you, but living in a constant state of fear and anxiety isn't fun. Maybe that's the plan, get everyone so scared and anxious that anti-anxiety medication sales go through the roof! I think I just found step 3...
If the US is so benevolent and brave to become the world police, let people outside US have a vote on your hawkish president too! Then we can probably talk about disarm every other country on the planet.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
In fairness, bans on games have gone forward, but they have been thrown out by the courts.
Also, flag burning amendments have been introduced, but never passed. One was recently in fact.
Military issues, ok, that's fair. That's less evil government than it is manipulation by evil defense industry contractors, but yeah.
The previous posters were right in pointing out the confrontational
policy of the US, and the elitist nature of its
"New American Century" Doctrine
But the things that any rational strategist/planner would envision would
be more realistic and based on the ground scenario, it would include:
# The place of the US in the new multi-polar global order
# Find causes to justify its military spending in view of
the future conflict scenarios
# Give up the fantasy of World-Domination, because in the new century
a psychopath with a gun is able to cause more apparent fear than
a mechanized industrial army
# Whether they want some new economic muscle behind their proposed
arming up or they want to produce more weapons and think they are
a superpower a-la the Soviets
# In this age of free knowledge decide whether their Plant-The-Flags
approach to war is going to be viable
Bush has made bad choices. But he will be gone. The current chinese leadership will remain for the next 20 years, and will be followed by more of the same. It is almost certain that W. has destroyed the republican's chance of holding presidency in the next election. Then hopfully, we will back to valuing true freedom. As it is now, the current admin loves freedom as much as he does a balanced budget; lots of talk, but the actions say otherwise.
Sorry, I should have said the "Second Sino-Japanese War". In any case, at the beginning of that war, the US was generally in favour of the Japanese. It wasn't until the Japanese army made attacks on the US assets that Americans were swayed to the Chinese and it was only solidified AFTER Pearl Harbour.
So really, the Americans were rooting for the Japanese at first, and made amends afterwards.
Live forever, or die trying.
But if you shoot down all of your own satellites, then there wouldn't be any left for your enemies to shoot down, thus rending your enemies' anti-satellite weapons completely ineffective and useless.
While I do agree on your points about the current government and what constitutes a country, "China" is derived from the Qin ("Chin") Dynasty name for the country. This was over 2000 years ago when all the kingdom was first unified and a single official written language was established.
The fact that the editors still have not corrected this story yet shows how little the editors care about the quality of their site anymore, and how much they have used fear and sensationalism to drive up flamewars.
It's harsh, but true. How else can you explain how LASER makes it to the headline here when the TFA says no such thing. So they didn't even read the story before posting, and haven't changed it after numerous people point out this error.
"Most favored" doesn't mean what you probably think it does.
The closest analogy is sort of like the "sale price" vs the "manufacturer suggested retail price". Nobody except people you hate or people you don't care about pay the "msrp", just about everyone gets the "sale price", just like every country except the ones that the US officially hates or doesn't care about has "most favored" status.
In recognition of this confusion, I recall that "most favored" has been officially changed to be called "Normal Trade Relations" to indicate what it really means, the country basically gets the standard trade treatment on tariffs and such.
This is analagous to renaming the "sale price" to the "list price" and the "msrp" to the "we don't really want to sell this to you, but if you insist you have to pay this price".
This is good for the U.S. economy because with this 'new' military hostility by the Chinese government, the U.S. government and businesses will be less 'friendly' to the Chinese regarding outsourcing and building good relationships. China is the 'new' and rising superpower - the Soviet Union lost the race because it couldn't compete with capitalism's competition-based theories and practices - the best/more economic things work! China learned from Russia's mistakes, embraces capitalism yet remains communist. The U.S. and American businesses, in fact, all global businesses should be wary of off-shoring jobs and resources to China because of it's long held traditions of not valuing/recognizing human life, intellectual property laws, lack of concern for the environment, etc... Cheap is cheap, you get what you pay for, and in the end, China is still communist and an adversary to democracy, freedom, and true capitalism (50% of business profits in China go to the Chinese Communist Party as a tax). This act of hostility actually helps to keep my job (pharmaceutical researcher) in the U.S.A. or a democratic(-friendly) country!
Keep up the good work China! I very much appreciate my job staying around for a little while longer!
I sure as hell hope this sends a clear message to American and European businesses that China is NOT as stable and friendly as they'd like to think or hope it is.
All Smiles (for now)!
Disqualifying factors:
1. Racist. This excludes much of East Asia at least, and probably much more. The people would enjoy attacking **FILL IN THE BLANK**.
2. Religeous intolerance. This excludes the entire Middle East. The people would enjoy attacking those filthy **FILL IN THE BLANK** worshipers.
3. Government not controlled by the people. This excludes China for sure. Russia is sliping back into this problem. Most of the Middle East is bad. Most of Africa is bad.
4. Vulnerable to overthrow. If the government is not secure, it could suddendly change. This excludes places with armed groups that have a non-negligable chance of overthrowing the government.
5. Vulnerable to invasion. If you have a small army and a land border with a neighbor who has a big mobile army, you damn well should not be having desirable weapon technology like nuclear weapons. You could get overrun in a matter of hours.
Snide remarks aside, the USA is fine. We don't have perfection of course, but realisticly we're way above the vast majority of the world as far as these things go.
How does propagandistic shit like this get modded up? Palestinians, men, women and children are teh turiririrists. Fucks sake. Die in a fire or whatever means of transportation suits your fancy. Your sky beard will be pleased. Mod this crud into the topsoil, and frankly bar the account from slashdot. We are far better than the tedious, dry, sermonising likes of this. yo0 f4il it.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
it's not a laser, it was a ballistic missile that destroyed the satellite on impact
they have like 4x the population... they could litterally send 1/4 of their population over here and take us out 1-for-1 and still have 3/4 left for other stuff... When all the fancy war mechanics run out and we're back to stick and stones they'd win hands down.
When has the US ever tried to prevent flag burning. That would be very dangerous ground -- flag burning, although repugnant, is inherently an essential form of protected political speech, and MUST be permitted -- but I must have missed that news item, because I was not aware of its having happened. Can you cite an example?
Trying to prevent flag burning has been a fairly popular pastime of many US politicians. The latest attempt in June 2006 failed to pass the Senate by only one vote. Wikipedia has much more...
But if you shoot down all of your own satellites, then there wouldn't be any left for your enemies to shoot down, thus rending your enemies' anti-satellite weapons completely ineffective and useless.
Brillant!!!
Not only will we make them waste massive cash, but we'll get to borrow more from them to rebuy all of our kit.
Oh You've just been promoted, General Coward. You're headed straight for the Pentagon with those sorts of ideas!
Not so much "ha ha" funny as "OH MY GOD I'M BLIND AND I HAVE RADIATION POISONING" funny.
(Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
SAAB = GM
Volvo cars = Ford
Texas plants are GM and Toyota, I believe.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
At first, Uncle Sam sets a web camera near your house window so he can see what you are doing in your bedroom.
Now you make a gun which can destroy that web camera.
Then Uncle Sam says your action is provocative!
Sure way to win a debate! Well done.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
You're right, it has nothing to do with defense. We have been spending on defense all of these years just to fight in Iraq. You anti-American whiners like to spew clueless statements about US policy without having a clue as to what it really is. You simply regurgitate what the anti-Bush crybabies say and print. I understand that it is fashionable to be anti-Bush and anti-US these days, as if it is some rite of passage in your effort to become a man or woman, but this statement is as idiotic as I have seen. It will continue long after Bush is gone, it will just be the other side of the coin.
If you knew anything about economics, you'd realize that the world economy needs the US in the worst way. Thankfully, the leaders of the world know that...
The world economy is OIL and if the US were to collapse, the world's markets would fall apart right behind it.
okay, fair enough on the name (good clarification), but it certainly didn't describe anything resembling a predecessor state to the current Chinese state(s), which is what i meant. it didn't control anything close to the land currently incorporated into China (even excluding disputed regions), and there's been several breaks in the lineage (where single states were subsequently divided). that last point is the key for disputing the claim of China being the oldest country.
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Just to clarify... PNAC is a neo-conservative think tank.
There are two types of people in the world: 1) those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.
It is certainly a US joke, not an Iraqi joke.
>Can you imagine living in a country
Nothing would change on Slashdot because the vast majority here are angry communist pycyl dyks who can't get girlfriends in the western world.
they could litterally send 1/4 of their population over here and take us out 1-for-1
Because you're a Slashdot birdbrain, you probably even believe that would be physically doable with transport technology on the near horizon.
HAH! Here in the US we've got you all licked. We tested our nukes on our own soil AND in Japan! Take that!