in that case this is really overkill.... stick with TWM... its simple and just what you need whenn the only reason to start X is to install some program that decides to have GUI installer... case in point Oracle 8i, i mean its java based installer rocks, and the interactive version is hell (IMHO). or if twm is not to your taste try OpenLook (which i think is just as old and small!)
Slackware is about the only distro i know that still has Openlook... with is funky green background and filemanager its probably the coolest little file manager you can find... and it (like Enlightenment) dont have that menu bar on the bottom... i know you can move it in kde/gnome/whatever.....BUT once you use something like enlightenment you see what serious configurability is all about... i mean the first thing i do on any new system is copy my ~/.enlightenment dir. fix the file pointer (which i think are stored so very well!) and good to go.
Try it out (0.16.5 just came out!!)
http://www.enlightenment.org/! And all you Gnome/Kde users.... they are good too and provide a lot of cool features for most users, but if all you want is something to give you a good devel env. (a screen for Xemacs, one for Eterms, one for Mozilla(/.) and finally one for mail/etc.) enlightenment gives you a clean and good looking window manager with a lot of punch.... try it out and then flame back at me:)
I think that too many ppl. tend to think that just cause we are programmers we should not study or care about other subjects. (as did I before 4 years of college) there is a lot to learn from in classics, history and even business courses (well some business courses at least).
. Companies should take some of the resources spent on trying to hire small numbers of people with top academic credentials and instead develop ways to predict which employees will succeed I agree with this point basically cause I have seen that just by going to a top school does not make you the best for a certain job. A lot of times a good developer is one who has a more balanced background.... too much theory CAN be bad for you, and complete lack of it worse. I say this cause of a lot of ppl. with the great GPA's and awesome schools to back them up have not got exp. with different technologies and might not be as good as someone who did OK from a decent school but kept up with the outside reading (like slashdot). This is of course a difficult thing to try and predict at a job interview, and goes hand in hand with not trusting simple certifications... they are just a signal of someone knowledge and skillset, using that alone is a BAD idea.
. For instance, programmers typically find themselves working in isolation on fragmented tasks that do not allow them to see the larger purpose of a project or to interact with other people. It may be of no small consequence that the offices of IT employees are often in a company's basement, the study notes.
Well a few things, have weekly meetings to talk about where the project is going and what each person is doing.. hence solving the first problem.. and whats this about being in a basement, damn that would suck!... on the other hand if they give me all the bandwith i need and a sweet setup... natural light might just be over-rated and never helps when you are trying to have a good game of UT.
well i guess you would have to test the scalability by running programs and seeing how the load was being distributed and all that jazz! But hell just the fact that it boots and runs is a good thing... one cpu at a time and soon we will be ready to take on the Himalayas:)
I was all happy that i finally have a Sun E-420 with 4CPU's and 2 Gb's of mem to play with today! Well actually i have to install oracle and patch it up, but still.... would have been fun... BUT NOOOOOO, you have to come and destroy it for all of us with that boot log.
AND just cause you did that... what the hell is up with all those warnings, freaking do make install ( i think.. i use slackware so i am not sure) and fix the System.map problems.... ohh and in case it is possible, can i get a shell account:)
42K bogomips.. make my 900 seem so _low!
I was in pretty much the same situation. after a lot of reading up on dslreports and asking ppl. at work and all i did decide on a dsl provider (who was more expensive than the rest) and it seems to have been the way to go.In sunnyvale, going with dslnorthwest. A few things to stay vary off, try to get someone who has good cust. service and is not tooo cheap.... you dont get something for nothing. also contracts suck... i am paying 70 / month and well the new contracts for ppl. starting now is 50 / month... i am of course locked into the 70 dollar price. good thing is that they got the dsl thing setup in 3 weeks flat.. i have one static ip (with the option to get up to 5) and am getting about as good a connection as i think you can with sdsl.
Also, its kinda wierd but i just do not get the entire thing with dsl ppl. trying to say they have better service than cable.. back in ohio with time warner cable i could download from closeby linuxberg mirrors at 400k/sec. On dsl i have hit 85 k/s with my dsl providers test ftp server.... arrggghhh... 784/368 is just not fast enough when you have 3 computers on it!!!
I hear that in canada the dsl is dirt cheap... freaking crazy considering that there are a ton of ISPs... i guess its the problem with the backend providers... i think there are only two in this and most areas Covad and NorthPoint and so they keep prices nice and high! well just my gripe and.02$
Sir we are here to take all your computer data. Including some of the vintage bootlegs on MP3 that could not be found anywhere else, and those neato shell scripts. YOUR government has given us the permission to take them since you are a threat to internet security (that and being 1 million times the size we do pretty much what we want in YOUR country now). Please do not resist us in any way or we will use any force needed.
Well its been coming for some time now. Tom's Hardware aint what it was when Voodoo;s and p2's came out. Now this is something new.. (NOT)
We all know that DivX rocks.. hell just go onto your fav. IRC server (not slashnet thank god) and check out moviez etc. Almost everything you can imagine is now popping up in the divX codec....
This article is nothing short of "So you wanna trade moviez ehh... rolling your own."
i am hoping that the guy would use it to put up info. on the AOL linux client.. which would be cool for linux users at home who dont have dsl/cable.... and more importantly it would be
nice for joe shmoe who wants AOL.
I just went through the comments on this thread, and it seems like a new kernel release is just not the big thing anymore. I think that is actually in a way great news for linux.... ppl. are happy with what they have ( well there will always be those who have to bitch ) but for the most ppl. the new kernel dont bring that much more. I think we have now started hitting that point in the curve where the marginal returns from new code in 2.2.x series just dont cut it!
Jeezzz.... i mean check out the old theads Linux 2.2 Released
Damn dude, i am actually pretty excited to get back to work tommorow so i can see the new support for the intel 810 chipsets sound card that dell seems to like so much.. damn idiots, for a 4000 dollar machine you think they would put somthing better than the Cm34... whatever Crystal sound chip... and hell its freaking impossible to get winblows users (who order the machines) to get the live option!!!
hmm maybe we are all keeping our excitement (and refreshments.. whatever you may prefer) for the 2.4 final.
depends on target group really.
on
Linux Demos?
·
· Score: 2
Depends on what your club wants to show. We have tried to do the canned demos with openGl and all that, it worked for a few ppl. But it did not blow everyone away. There is always UT for linux which works pretty darn well if you stick with the right hardware, ie. Voodoo's or Nvidia, and get the Creative Live..
You could also go with some cutting edge stuff like helix code and show the avg. joe that the learning curve is very very easy with linux now.
I mean most of the target audience (if non-cs) will mostly wanna do:
1. Research on the web (NetScape and Mozilla)
2. Email either using hotmail or POP3 etc. (take your pick, i kinda like what i saw with the Helix code ppl.. though there is always mail in emacs:)
3. Then of course there is the IM's requirements most ppl seem to have. So there is Licq, and GnomeICU, and any AOL client. You could also just show the ICQ java client to ease the transfer from windows boxes.
4. Word Processing... here is where it can be a great sell, or get ugly. StarOffice. Some ppl like it a lot, others cant stop complaining about speed. Corel has its suite which i think works just fine for almost anything that most ppl do.
5. Games, here is where windows can get by you, but for demo sake you can show Quake, UT, and a ton of other games.. BSD style ones on console ? ?
6. REAL MULTI-USER OS : there are a ton of things you can show here. in windows (98 or 2000) only one person can really use the computer at one time. (I know about 'runas' it just dont cut it). I mean being able to work remotely is something that would be of great value for a lot of ppl, you just have to demo this well.
7. NO MORE FREAKING REBOOTS everytime you install any program. something i did once to just show thing was to install a bunch of software together on many windows on many desktops (Virtual desktops, hahaha, missing in windoz...) and well not just normal stuff, i mean throw on UT, Quake3, StarOffice, and a bunch of stuff on together... switch the desktops.. and then use them without rebooting. Then again you better have a good computer to demo with!
well just my thoughts, i mean there is always xscreensaver in case you are lazy:)
What the heck are you talking about ? I mean there is a lot of FUD out there about MS having a better desktop, but you have to freaking open your eyes. I have been running enlightenment for a few years now and AfterStep before that and the GUI setup is a hell of a lot nicer! I have 6 desktops and very well setup move/resize/focus settings. Hell if all Linux GUI's are trying to be like windows why they hell can't MS do sloppy window focus ? Multiple desktops is an add=on using some third party software. I cant configure windows worth ass...
The threat to linux on the desktop side is laughable for ppl. who use their computer to do just check email and other random stuff (though most ppl. could not give me a task which cannot be dont just as easily in Linux). NOW lets talk about developers..... I love having the ability to have sloppy focus, multiple desktops and no freaking bar at the bottom. I run Xemacs and code in multiple languages and run everything in an organized way... mp3's and ICQ on one desktop... email/slashdot on another... system info/telnet sessions into other server.... then Xemacs for coding... and a desktop juust in case i need it!!!
MS looks like ass...cant be modified other than colors and is definately not even close to something like Enlightenment (where a new theme means more than just new colors!!!).
MODERATORS... are you even reading this shit before pumping up the score!
same problem here where i work... simple fix was to just freaking run VMware... yeah i know i have to run windoz... but hell it only runs Outlook and IE.. everything has been turned off as much as possible.
funny you say that cause right now i am reading through Oracle8 (The complete Reference)!! Only thing is that we are using Oracle8 at work!! Cant complain cause i get to run a few Sun 420's!!
well actually that was one of the problems with PostgreSQL... they dont have too many publications or guides on usage. The doc's are there, and are adequate, but MySql does have a lot more out there! HOWEVER, i do belive that a book is becoming available soon for postgreSQL!
But in general its always the same thing , "look we got it to go so fast"... and then they hide how they did it..... hmmm how about opensourcing your freaking testing / tweaking ehh!
I agree that MySql does not implement many of the features that an RDBMS should... heck I belive transactions are still not there yet. But if we were to drag out Elmasri or some other book we would surely find some problems with other just the same! The benchmarks are of course still trash!
not completely true... this article is not trying to start anything. I mean you really cant compare Oracle and Informix to something like Access or MySQL. They are not even trying to aim at the same market. PostgreSQL with its enhancement in features still fall short of some of these commercial db's, and that cause it still has the feel of an academic DB! A very nice DBS nonetheless!! But lets not try to say companies with Tera bytes of data can switch over! That said... PostgreSQL team is doing some great stuff, and MySQL remains strong in its position as a fast lightwieght DBS.
Slashdot Mirror
standard response 10117 (too many options....more directed oss development...blah blah blah...
in that case this is really overkill.... stick with TWM... its simple and just what you need whenn the only reason to start X is to install some program that decides to have GUI installer... case in point Oracle 8i, i mean its java based installer rocks, and the interactive version is hell (IMHO). or if twm is not to your taste try OpenLook (which i think is just as old and small!)
Slackware is about the only distro i know that still has Openlook... with is funky green background and filemanager its probably the coolest little file manager you can find... and it (like Enlightenment) dont have that menu bar on the bottom... i know you can move it in kde/gnome/whatever.....BUT once you use something like enlightenment you see what serious configurability is all about... i mean the first thing i do on any new system is copy my ~/.enlightenment dir. fix the file pointer (which i think are stored so very well!) and good to go. :)
Try it out (0.16.5 just came out!!)
http://www.enlightenment.org/!
And all you Gnome/Kde users.... they are good too and provide a lot of cool features for most users, but if all you want is something to give you a good devel env. (a screen for Xemacs, one for Eterms, one for Mozilla(/.) and finally one for mail/etc.) enlightenment gives you a clean and good looking window manager with a lot of punch.... try it out and then flame back at me
thank you... that was soo needed.. you beat me to the punch... hahahaha...
BTW not a dumb joke..
One word:
balance
I think that too many ppl. tend to think that just cause we are programmers we should not study or care about other subjects. (as did I before 4 years of college) there is a lot to learn from in classics, history and even business courses (well some business courses at least).
. Companies should take some of the resources spent on trying to hire small numbers of people with top academic credentials and instead develop ways to predict which employees will succeed ... on the other hand if they give me all the bandwith i need and a sweet setup... natural light might just be over-rated and never helps when you are trying to have a good game of UT.
I agree with this point basically cause I have seen that just by going to a top school does not make you the best for a certain job. A lot of times a good developer is one who has a more balanced background.... too much theory CAN be bad for you, and complete lack of it worse. I say this cause of a lot of ppl. with the great GPA's and awesome schools to back them up have not got exp. with different technologies and might not be as good as someone who did OK from a decent school but kept up with the outside reading (like slashdot). This is of course a difficult thing to try and predict at a job interview, and goes hand in hand with not trusting simple certifications... they are just a signal of someone knowledge and skillset, using that alone is a BAD idea. . For instance, programmers typically find themselves working in isolation on fragmented tasks that do not allow them to see the larger purpose of a project or to interact with other people. It may be of no small consequence that the offices of IT employees are often in a company's basement, the study notes.
Well a few things, have weekly meetings to talk about where the project is going and what each person is doing.. hence solving the first problem.. and whats this about being in a basement, damn that would suck!
exactly what bug are you refering to ? ? i fail to see something wrong... its just BogoMips... and at 47K pretty nice bogus feeling :)
well i guess you would have to test the scalability by running programs and seeing how the load was being distributed and all that jazz! But hell just the fact that it boots and runs is a good thing... one cpu at a time and soon we will be ready to take on the Himalayas :)
I was all happy that i finally have a Sun E-420 with 4CPU's and 2 Gb's of mem to play with today! Well actually i have to install oracle and patch it up, but still.... would have been fun... BUT NOOOOOO, you have to come and destroy it for all of us with that boot log. :)
AND just cause you did that... what the hell is up with all those warnings, freaking do make install ( i think.. i use slackware so i am not sure) and fix the System.map problems.... ohh and in case it is possible, can i get a shell account
42K bogomips.. make my 900 seem so _low!
I was in pretty much the same situation. after a lot of reading up on dslreports and asking ppl. at work and all i did decide on a dsl provider (who was more expensive than the rest) and it seems to have been the way to go.In sunnyvale, going with dslnorthwest. A few things to stay vary off, try to get someone who has good cust. service and is not tooo cheap.... you dont get something for nothing. also contracts suck... i am paying 70 / month and well the new contracts for ppl. starting now is 50 / month... i am of course locked into the 70 dollar price. good thing is that they got the dsl thing setup in 3 weeks flat.. i have one static ip (with the option to get up to 5) and am getting about as good a connection as i think you can with sdsl.
.02$
Also, its kinda wierd but i just do not get the entire thing with dsl ppl. trying to say they have better service than cable.. back in ohio with time warner cable i could download from closeby linuxberg mirrors at 400k/sec. On dsl i have hit 85 k/s with my dsl providers test ftp server.... arrggghhh... 784/368 is just not fast enough when you have 3 computers on it!!!
I hear that in canada the dsl is dirt cheap... freaking crazy considering that there are a ton of ISPs... i guess its the problem with the backend providers... i think there are only two in this and most areas Covad and NorthPoint and so they keep prices nice and high! well just my gripe and
One other thing to make
Sir we are here to take all your computer data. Including some of the vintage bootlegs on MP3 that could not be found anywhere else, and those neato shell scripts. YOUR government has given us the permission to take them since you are a threat to internet security (that and being 1 million times the size we do pretty much what we want in YOUR country now). Please do not resist us in any way or we will use any force needed.
Well its been coming for some time now. Tom's Hardware aint what it was when Voodoo;s and p2's came out. Now this is something new.. (NOT)
We all know that DivX rocks.. hell just go onto your fav. IRC server (not slashnet thank god) and check out moviez etc. Almost everything you can imagine is now popping up in the divX codec....
This article is nothing short of "So you wanna trade moviez ehh... rolling your own."
We are not impressed.
I mean you have to sign the form, or you are screwed... well dont sign it and make a movie!!
i am hoping that the guy would use it to put up info. on the AOL linux client.. which would be cool for linux users at home who dont have dsl/cable.... and more importantly it would be
nice for joe shmoe who wants AOL.
correction: Company paid 4K for i810 box.
I just went through the comments on this thread, and it seems like a new kernel release is just not the big thing anymore. I think that is actually in a way great news for linux.... ppl. are happy with what they have ( well there will always be those who have to bitch ) but for the most ppl. the new kernel dont bring that much more. I think we have now started hitting that point in the curve where the marginal returns from new code in 2.2.x series just dont cut it!
Jeezzz.... i mean check out the old theads Linux 2.2 Released
Damn dude, i am actually pretty excited to get back to work tommorow so i can see the new support for the intel 810 chipsets sound card that dell seems to like so much.. damn idiots, for a 4000 dollar machine you think they would put somthing better than the Cm34... whatever Crystal sound chip... and hell its freaking impossible to get winblows users (who order the machines) to get the live option!!!
hmm maybe we are all keeping our excitement (and refreshments.. whatever you may prefer) for the 2.4 final.
Depends on what your club wants to show. We have tried to do the canned demos with openGl and all that, it worked for a few ppl. But it did not blow everyone away. There is always UT for linux which works pretty darn well if you stick with the right hardware, ie. Voodoo's or Nvidia, and get the Creative Live.. You could also go with some cutting edge stuff like helix code and show the avg. joe that the learning curve is very very easy with linux now. I mean most of the target audience (if non-cs) will mostly wanna do: :)
1. Research on the web (NetScape and Mozilla)
2. Email either using hotmail or POP3 etc. (take your pick, i kinda like what i saw with the Helix code ppl.. though there is always mail in emacs:)
3. Then of course there is the IM's requirements most ppl seem to have. So there is Licq, and GnomeICU, and any AOL client. You could also just show the ICQ java client to ease the transfer from windows boxes.
4. Word Processing... here is where it can be a great sell, or get ugly. StarOffice. Some ppl like it a lot, others cant stop complaining about speed. Corel has its suite which i think works just fine for almost anything that most ppl do.
5. Games, here is where windows can get by you, but for demo sake you can show Quake, UT, and a ton of other games.. BSD style ones on console ? ?
6. REAL MULTI-USER OS : there are a ton of things you can show here. in windows (98 or 2000) only one person can really use the computer at one time. (I know about 'runas' it just dont cut it). I mean being able to work remotely is something that would be of great value for a lot of ppl, you just have to demo this well.
7. NO MORE FREAKING REBOOTS everytime you install any program. something i did once to just show thing was to install a bunch of software together on many windows on many desktops (Virtual desktops, hahaha, missing in windoz...) and well not just normal stuff, i mean throw on UT, Quake3, StarOffice, and a bunch of stuff on together... switch the desktops.. and then use them without rebooting. Then again you better have a good computer to demo with!
well just my thoughts, i mean there is always xscreensaver in case you are lazy
What the heck are you talking about ? I mean there is a lot of FUD out there about MS having a better desktop, but you have to freaking open your eyes. I have been running enlightenment for a few years now and AfterStep before that and the GUI setup is a hell of a lot nicer! I have 6 desktops and very well setup move/resize/focus settings. Hell if all Linux GUI's are trying to be like windows why they hell can't MS do sloppy window focus ? Multiple desktops is an add=on using some third party software. I cant configure windows worth ass...
.... then Xemacs for coding... and a desktop juust in case i need it!!!
The threat to linux on the desktop side is laughable for ppl. who use their computer to do just check email and other random stuff (though most ppl. could not give me a task which cannot be dont just as easily in Linux). NOW lets talk about developers..... I love having the ability to have sloppy focus, multiple desktops and no freaking bar at the bottom. I run Xemacs and code in multiple languages and run everything in an organized way... mp3's and ICQ on one desktop... email/slashdot on another... system info/telnet sessions into other server
MS looks like ass...cant be modified other than colors and is definately not even close to something like Enlightenment (where a new theme means more than just new colors!!!).
MODERATORS... are you even reading this shit before pumping up the score!
same problem here where i work... simple fix was to just freaking run VMware... yeah i know i have to run windoz... but hell it only runs Outlook and IE.. everything has been turned off as much as possible.
PaperClip meet my good old friend xkill
funny you say that cause right now i am reading through Oracle8 (The complete Reference)!! Only thing is that we are using Oracle8 at work!! Cant complain cause i get to run a few Sun 420's!!
well actually that was one of the problems with PostgreSQL... they dont have too many publications or guides on usage. The doc's are there, and are adequate, but MySql does have a lot more out there! HOWEVER, i do belive that a book is becoming available soon for postgreSQL!
But in general its always the same thing , "look we got it to go so fast"... and then they hide how they did it..... hmmm how about opensourcing your freaking testing / tweaking ehh!
I agree that MySql does not implement many of the features that an RDBMS should... heck I belive transactions are still not there yet. But if we were to drag out Elmasri or some other book we would surely find some problems with other just the same! The benchmarks are of course still trash!
not completely true... this article is not trying to start anything. I mean you really cant compare Oracle and Informix to something like Access or MySQL. They are not even trying to aim at the same market. PostgreSQL with its enhancement in features still fall short of some of these commercial db's, and that cause it still has the feel of an academic DB! A very nice DBS nonetheless!! But lets not try to say companies with Tera bytes of data can switch over! That said... PostgreSQL team is doing some great stuff, and MySQL remains strong in its position as a fast lightwieght DBS.
Flaimbait Alert!
With that def. one can say that all ANY database is a file on the filesystem (or part of the fs) with an SQL frontend!!!