Wow! It's old news and irrelevant that in 1995 VP Gore violated US law and didn't notify Congress that we entered into a secret agreement with the russians to help the iranians get nukes. The russians get cash, iranians get weapons tech, and dear Al gets the gratitude of Victor Chernomyrdin. Big Whoop.
BUT!
It's relevant to deciding your vote on the fact that the Reagan-Bush (George the father) administration played footsie with Iran and sent them some amounts of small conventional arms (no tanks, no F-16s, etc).
Get a different drug supplier. Whatever he's selling you, it's rotting your brain.
Actually, my explicit statement was that it would draw energy away from harmful solutions like opposing growth and trying to insert government into a problem that the free market is handling much better than government dominated regimes (see ex-soviet block). I don't have any delusions that all this is ex nihilo. In fact, if it were, I would be less interested in it. Let's face it, the environmental movement has quite a few nut jobs in it that are doing more harm than good for humanity *and* the environment.
A case in point is your 'state of the art powerplants' idea. Guess what, no matter how much lower the pollution is there is a percentage of the greens who will oppose the construction because their vision is of us all being pastoralists using minimal energy. They just want less power generation period. So what ends up happening, powerplant lifecycles increase, not decrease because keeping an existing plant running barely in environmental spec costs nothing politically but making a new clean replacement plant means you have to go through protests, political reviews, the usual community improvements (bribes), etc.
As for your fear that this would be some huge r&d drain, get real. The expensive part is being done already for other reasons. The tesla coil could be a class project for a bunch of budding engineer undergrads.
As for the third world, their major poverty problem is their lack of honest government and capitalism. There is a strong correlation between economic freedom and strong economies and almost all third world nations have interfering governments who either prevent wealth creation or steal it when it happens anyway. Unfortunately, that is a problem that these people are going to have to figure out how to solve for themselves.
All the more reason to get your Apple stock now while they are perceived as a style company. When OS X comes out and they begin to be perceived as the only vendor of unix that gives you all the power while allowing you even simpler GUI goodness than Windows, look out.
It's interesting that Gartner also didn't include OS X in its 5 year rundown of Unix variants, nor did it include any free BSD variants as well, only commercial Unix and Linux. What a bore.
And planting a tree in Israel doesn't turn it into a forest country. The point is that, at worst, you have an irrelevancy in these ozone creating machines. They would be no more harmful than pet rocks and just might be a bit more useful. This would contrast very favorably with current environmental proposals such as the Kyoto treaty which would close the economic opportunity door on a lot of people, slowing growth. The environmentalist methodology today only has the charm that the people it impoverishes and kills (through that poverty and slowdown of invention) aren't an easily captured number so it doesn't hurt the poor environmentalists' consciences when they screw so many people.
Two problems with your statement. The first is that the sources of ozone depletion are still under argument. It's just that one side of the argument isn't very popular with the media. Throwing money at a problem when you don't know the cause is just silly since you are much more likely to get a wrong random answer than a right one. All cost and no gain.
But let's say that those nasty CFCs are really the cause of the ozone depletion as the ozone warriors would have it. The source problem has pretty much cured itself through the banniing of most ozone depleting materials (and at quite a pretty penny too). This leaves us with managing the aftermath. CFCs are quite long-lived chemicals and you have two options, you can create giant collectors to filter all high altitude air on planet Earth or you can create ozone at a high altitude to replace the losses. The collecters aren't here but taking these self supporting flying wings up with tesla coils on board might just be a practical measure. It could be funded by an ecologists version of the "plant a tree in Israel" thing that's popular with many jews. You would probably fly them from the tip of south america and if an ozone hol develops in the northern hemisphere you have a wealth of launch sites. As a bonus, you would also create a great tourist attraction.
Are there any EE or CE folks out there who could share how to calculate the ozone created per kw fed into a Tesla coil?
If a murder is committed in an apartment you own, the police take similar measures. If you have never seen a crime scene, you must have at least seen it on TV. The police can, and do, keep legitimate owners out of crime scenes for limited periods. To do the same thing for computers isn't taunting, it's making sure that evidence is preserved while avoiding a repeat of the travesty of Steve Jackson Games. What comes back from those evidence rooms isn't allways everything that went in and once it is in a government building gathering dust and depreciating in value, it's hard to get it back before the value of your property goes down to zero or close to zero.
With the equipment sealed and tamper resistant, all that needs happen is the police come back for there tampering checker at the end of two weeks or, given enough technical ingenuity, you mail the tamper record back to the police at the end of the two week period and voila! You have your equipment back in use after two weeks without the need for expensive lawyers to file writs to get your stuff back.
A trunk could have been open when the blast occured, ditto for the cabin (rolled down windows, door was open).
As for RICO, it's beside the point. I specifically said acceptable, not legal. I guess that devolves to the question of whether legality determines acceptability or morality/ethics are what guide your definition of what is acceptable.
Actually, if you could figure out how to create cheap lightning on demand with these things, you might have something really useful, an ozone generator. Fly a bunch over the antarctic and get Al Gore off everyone's back
The problem then is what happens if you get a power surge and the government's hardware is fried? In addition I wouldn't want an FBI drive or other computer equipment. It would be a very easy thing to modify the hardware for surveillance.
I believe that a reasonable compromise would be to copy the data out, seal the evidence, advise the suspect that breaking the seal or tampering (via very large magnet) with the equipment for the next two weeks is commiting felony crime scene tampering, and go on their merry way. The container they put the computer in can have a magnetic field detector that would register said magnetic field if the suspect tries to wipe his own system (useful only if he has no illegal materials on his magnetic media but has illegal materials erased on his drive).
This takes care of 90% of the problem while giving the police a decent window to decide whether they need to go through the expense of applying advanced techniques to reassemble the erased contents of magnetic media.
I have had a bad experience with the FBI (the investigation was for the kidnapping of a relative). I don't have a high opinion of their professionalism or their results (relative still missing years later). At this point, if the FBI were to falsely accuse me of a crime, it would cause great pleasure to give them the exact level of cooperation they gave my family - little to none with a few lies thrown in just to twist the knife.
I would guess that if you checked for traces of explosives on all cars around a large bomb, you would find them. The question is did they get there from before or after the blast.
If you check the money in your wallet for cocaine, there's a pretty good chance that it will register positive even if you have nothing to do with the drug trade and had just gotten the cash from an ATM. Is confiscating the money acceptable?
Uh, sorry, the party was socialist, not capitalist. It was the german National Socialist Workers party and one of the reasons that they were so highly critical of jews was their perception that jews made such good capitalists.
1. One of the early acts of the National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi) was gun confiscation. Hitler was a great gun control friend (as were most other tyrants).
2. I do not agree that you are automatically correct to say that the aims of the FBI are to prevent crime. An analysis of the incident at Ruby Ridge as well as how the FBI was deployed in the Travelgate scandal show in two very different ways how an agency can be turned to evil aims. As US citizens it is our duty to constantly scrutinize that *in fact* as well as on paper, the aims of the FBI are legitimate. Or was Omnivore OK by you?
Actually, government agents do have a positive obligation to identify themselves before they break in. Several defendants have been found not guilty of murder charges because it was shown at trial that they busted in without identifying themselves as law enforcement. Fearing that they were criminals of one type or another, the suspect started blasting (and somehow survived to tell the tale).
OK, here's how it works. The politicians know that if they violate the natural rights of the people too much, at a certain point they get terrorist action, assassination, and revolution in the streets. The difference between an unarmed populace and an armed populace is that the likelyhood of successful action against the political class is higher and thus the proles are more likely to try it.
The fact that the jackbooted thugs are likely to win eventually is cold comfort to the govt. agents that die before any rebellion gets shut down.
Any one person taking on the US government by force of arms isn't going to win. But it is the fear of bureaucrats that some act of theirs is going to push somebody over the edge and take them out personally that partially restrains the government's natural urge to become abusive.
This is similar to the positive crime prevention effect of concealed carry laws. Your average mugger doesn't know which person is armed or not so the fear of getting holes blown in him drives a certain percentage of muggers to refrain. Guns don't cure the problem of criminals or government tyranny, but in both cases they provide a statistical lowering of the problem.
Suspicion is enough to quietly have him under surveillance for a week or two to see if he's bragging, engaging in illegal activities, etc. That's a legitimate act of law enforcement.
That isn't what they did. They went to a judge, got a warrant and confiscated his property. If he were an organized criminal cracking Visa for cash, his mob lawyer would have these guys for lunch for not having probable cause and for removing him from the place of the search (that evidence was planted! can be a winner in court).
What was going on was harrassment, pure and simple. They wanted to rap him on his knuckles so he keeps a wider distance between himself and any crackers he might know.
I was told by a fella who hosted some exchange students from France the secret of the french 'aroma'. Apparently, they can't run their economy well enough to have cheap hot water so they economize on the showers. After a week of smeling french toes he had enough and flat out told them to bathe more frequently. They did and he had no problems on the subject thereafter.
The consequences of treating computer people like locksmiths would be severe. Mandatory professionalization would force the computer industry to slow down enough that the unions would start to have a realistic shot at it. Do you really want to be in a situation where some guy half way around the world is going to say 'tools up' and you are obligated to stop coding?
I take it you have never heard of a decompiler. binaries are hard to look at but not impossible. A highly motivated (read paid) black hat *will* go through the trouble of deciphering and diagramming out your confusing code, after all, it's his job.
The white hats who benevolently find this stuff without compensation aren't going to violate laws or go through the trouble of unwrapping your riddle in an enigma. After all, nobody's paying them and if it isn't fun enough, why bother. There certainly is other code to review where the writers are not intentionally giving them the middle finger.
The result is that you have cracked programs and nobody is sounding the alarm until it is too late and China's investment of a cracker brigade gets them the ability to send hostile code into the Win2k control systems of the US Navy's smart ships.
A little off topic but harmfully hacking a hospital to cause deaths isn't very hard, it's just not as obvious as hacking an individual's medical equipment. Turning off the HVAC systems in July in Arizona is, unfortunately, all too easy and guaranteed to cause a large bodycount.
I learned about that one at a hacker kiddie BBS in the 80's. It was one of those classic conversations of the greenhorn saying "what's this" and more experienced hands saying "stop it before you kill someone". I suspect the practice of dialup control of HVAC systems hasn't changed much since then.
Life support covers a wider range of infrastructure than you think. There are two major water lines that feed into NYC. A little bit of drilling and demolition work in the woods of Westchester county and you would not be able to truck in enough water to avoid major population evacuation (AFAIK they are still working on tunnel 3). The knowledge necessary to carry off this attack gets broadcast over PBS programs in the area at least once a year.
I won't go into the several other ways 5 reasonably intelligent middle schoolers came up with (in about two days) to cause unstoppable havoc and mayhem but let's put it this way. City living is remarkably fragile and the stupidity of terrorists both cyber and the garden variety kind is a continuing gift from God.
And how will BG & Microsoft fire people in other companies or put people out of business without govt. enforcement of EULA licenses that are, quite arguably, unconstitutional? The point stands that it is the government that is providing the coercion while BG is merely renting that power (see UCITA). Correcting contract law would render much of MS's business practices untenable and force BG to compete & truly innovate or watch his empire come apart faster than he put it together.
You are close, but not quite correct to say that BG's unethical business practices are a form of coercion. The non-violent acts of any party isn't coercive. The problem is when the state enforces those acts with guns that coercion enters into the equation.
Let's give a concrete example. There are literally thousands and thousands of houses in the US with contract clauses that state that the buyer contracts to not sell the property to nonwhites. Several decades ago, such contract clauses were ruled non-enforceable and poof! the problem disappeared as a practical matter. Since it costs a good deal of money to formally remove the clause from the state paperwork, there are quite probably cases where black people are selling to other blacks with the contracts still formally intact.
As for accepting 'partial compliance' with what I think is right on issues I think of as vital, any libertarian does that every day. To do otherwise would require full time activism for any holder of the philosophy pretty much anywhere in the world. Most people, even consistent people, accept half a loaf on even vital issues for self-preservation.
"I'm sure he's white, with that selfish Libertarian philosophy".
Try that BS with Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, or Larry Elder, all three black libertarians. Yes, Harry Browne is white but to say that if you have sufficient melanin, you can't be a libertarian (why? do you think it makes blacks too stupid to join the group?) or even more perfidious, are you saying that anybody with a melanin count sufficient to put himself out of the white race is a race traitor for adopting a particular political philosophy?
Slashdot Mirror
Wow! It's old news and irrelevant that in 1995 VP Gore violated US law and didn't notify Congress that we entered into a secret agreement with the russians to help the iranians get nukes. The russians get cash, iranians get weapons tech, and dear Al gets the gratitude of Victor Chernomyrdin. Big Whoop.
BUT!
It's relevant to deciding your vote on the fact that the Reagan-Bush (George the father) administration played footsie with Iran and sent them some amounts of small conventional arms (no tanks, no F-16s, etc).
Get a different drug supplier. Whatever he's selling you, it's rotting your brain.
DB
Actually, my explicit statement was that it would draw energy away from harmful solutions like opposing growth and trying to insert government into a problem that the free market is handling much better than government dominated regimes (see ex-soviet block). I don't have any delusions that all this is ex nihilo. In fact, if it were, I would be less interested in it. Let's face it, the environmental movement has quite a few nut jobs in it that are doing more harm than good for humanity *and* the environment.
A case in point is your 'state of the art powerplants' idea. Guess what, no matter how much lower the pollution is there is a percentage of the greens who will oppose the construction because their vision is of us all being pastoralists using minimal energy. They just want less power generation period. So what ends up happening, powerplant lifecycles increase, not decrease because keeping an existing plant running barely in environmental spec costs nothing politically but making a new clean replacement plant means you have to go through protests, political reviews, the usual community improvements (bribes), etc.
As for your fear that this would be some huge r&d drain, get real. The expensive part is being done already for other reasons. The tesla coil could be a class project for a bunch of budding engineer undergrads.
As for the third world, their major poverty problem is their lack of honest government and capitalism. There is a strong correlation between economic freedom and strong economies and almost all third world nations have interfering governments who either prevent wealth creation or steal it when it happens anyway. Unfortunately, that is a problem that these people are going to have to figure out how to solve for themselves.
DB
All the more reason to get your Apple stock now while they are perceived as a style company. When OS X comes out and they begin to be perceived as the only vendor of unix that gives you all the power while allowing you even simpler GUI goodness than Windows, look out.
It's interesting that Gartner also didn't include OS X in its 5 year rundown of Unix variants, nor did it include any free BSD variants as well, only commercial Unix and Linux. What a bore.
DB
And planting a tree in Israel doesn't turn it into a forest country. The point is that, at worst, you have an irrelevancy in these ozone creating machines. They would be no more harmful than pet rocks and just might be a bit more useful. This would contrast very favorably with current environmental proposals such as the Kyoto treaty which would close the economic opportunity door on a lot of people, slowing growth. The environmentalist methodology today only has the charm that the people it impoverishes and kills (through that poverty and slowdown of invention) aren't an easily captured number so it doesn't hurt the poor environmentalists' consciences when they screw so many people.
DB
Two problems with your statement. The first is that the sources of ozone depletion are still under argument. It's just that one side of the argument isn't very popular with the media. Throwing money at a problem when you don't know the cause is just silly since you are much more likely to get a wrong random answer than a right one. All cost and no gain.
But let's say that those nasty CFCs are really the cause of the ozone depletion as the ozone warriors would have it. The source problem has pretty much cured itself through the banniing of most ozone depleting materials (and at quite a pretty penny too). This leaves us with managing the aftermath. CFCs are quite long-lived chemicals and you have two options, you can create giant collectors to filter all high altitude air on planet Earth or you can create ozone at a high altitude to replace the losses. The collecters aren't here but taking these self supporting flying wings up with tesla coils on board might just be a practical measure. It could be funded by an ecologists version of the "plant a tree in Israel" thing that's popular with many jews. You would probably fly them from the tip of south america and if an ozone hol develops in the northern hemisphere you have a wealth of launch sites. As a bonus, you would also create a great tourist attraction.
Are there any EE or CE folks out there who could share how to calculate the ozone created per kw fed into a Tesla coil?
DB
If a murder is committed in an apartment you own, the police take similar measures. If you have never seen a crime scene, you must have at least seen it on TV. The police can, and do, keep legitimate owners out of crime scenes for limited periods. To do the same thing for computers isn't taunting, it's making sure that evidence is preserved while avoiding a repeat of the travesty of Steve Jackson Games. What comes back from those evidence rooms isn't allways everything that went in and once it is in a government building gathering dust and depreciating in value, it's hard to get it back before the value of your property goes down to zero or close to zero.
With the equipment sealed and tamper resistant, all that needs happen is the police come back for there tampering checker at the end of two weeks or, given enough technical ingenuity, you mail the tamper record back to the police at the end of the two week period and voila! You have your equipment back in use after two weeks without the need for expensive lawyers to file writs to get your stuff back.
A trunk could have been open when the blast occured, ditto for the cabin (rolled down windows, door was open).
As for RICO, it's beside the point. I specifically said acceptable, not legal. I guess that devolves to the question of whether legality determines acceptability or morality/ethics are what guide your definition of what is acceptable.
DB
Actually, if you could figure out how to create cheap lightning on demand with these things, you might have something really useful, an ozone generator. Fly a bunch over the antarctic and get Al Gore off everyone's back
DB
The problem then is what happens if you get a power surge and the government's hardware is fried? In addition I wouldn't want an FBI drive or other computer equipment. It would be a very easy thing to modify the hardware for surveillance.
I believe that a reasonable compromise would be to copy the data out, seal the evidence, advise the suspect that breaking the seal or tampering (via very large magnet) with the equipment for the next two weeks is commiting felony crime scene tampering, and go on their merry way. The container they put the computer in can have a magnetic field detector that would register said magnetic field if the suspect tries to wipe his own system (useful only if he has no illegal materials on his magnetic media but has illegal materials erased on his drive).
This takes care of 90% of the problem while giving the police a decent window to decide whether they need to go through the expense of applying advanced techniques to reassemble the erased contents of magnetic media.
DB
I have had a bad experience with the FBI (the investigation was for the kidnapping of a relative). I don't have a high opinion of their professionalism or their results (relative still missing years later). At this point, if the FBI were to falsely accuse me of a crime, it would cause great pleasure to give them the exact level of cooperation they gave my family - little to none with a few lies thrown in just to twist the knife.
bastards
DB
I would guess that if you checked for traces of explosives on all cars around a large bomb, you would find them. The question is did they get there from before or after the blast.
If you check the money in your wallet for cocaine, there's a pretty good chance that it will register positive even if you have nothing to do with the drug trade and had just gotten the cash from an ATM. Is confiscating the money acceptable?
DB
Uh, sorry, the party was socialist, not capitalist. It was the german National Socialist Workers party and one of the reasons that they were so highly critical of jews was their perception that jews made such good capitalists.
DB
1. One of the early acts of the National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi) was gun confiscation. Hitler was a great gun control friend (as were most other tyrants).
2. I do not agree that you are automatically correct to say that the aims of the FBI are to prevent crime. An analysis of the incident at Ruby Ridge as well as how the FBI was deployed in the Travelgate scandal show in two very different ways how an agency can be turned to evil aims. As US citizens it is our duty to constantly scrutinize that *in fact* as well as on paper, the aims of the FBI are legitimate. Or was Omnivore OK by you?
DB
Actually, government agents do have a positive obligation to identify themselves before they break in. Several defendants have been found not guilty of murder charges because it was shown at trial that they busted in without identifying themselves as law enforcement. Fearing that they were criminals of one type or another, the suspect started blasting (and somehow survived to tell the tale).
DB
OK, here's how it works. The politicians know that if they violate the natural rights of the people too much, at a certain point they get terrorist action, assassination, and revolution in the streets. The difference between an unarmed populace and an armed populace is that the likelyhood of successful action against the political class is higher and thus the proles are more likely to try it.
The fact that the jackbooted thugs are likely to win eventually is cold comfort to the govt. agents that die before any rebellion gets shut down.
Any one person taking on the US government by force of arms isn't going to win. But it is the fear of bureaucrats that some act of theirs is going to push somebody over the edge and take them out personally that partially restrains the government's natural urge to become abusive.
This is similar to the positive crime prevention effect of concealed carry laws. Your average mugger doesn't know which person is armed or not so the fear of getting holes blown in him drives a certain percentage of muggers to refrain. Guns don't cure the problem of criminals or government tyranny, but in both cases they provide a statistical lowering of the problem.
DB
Suspicion is enough to quietly have him under surveillance for a week or two to see if he's bragging, engaging in illegal activities, etc. That's a legitimate act of law enforcement.
That isn't what they did. They went to a judge, got a warrant and confiscated his property. If he were an organized criminal cracking Visa for cash, his mob lawyer would have these guys for lunch for not having probable cause and for removing him from the place of the search (that evidence was planted! can be a winner in court).
What was going on was harrassment, pure and simple. They wanted to rap him on his knuckles so he keeps a wider distance between himself and any crackers he might know.
DB
I was told by a fella who hosted some exchange students from France the secret of the french 'aroma'. Apparently, they can't run their economy well enough to have cheap hot water so they economize on the showers. After a week of smeling french toes he had enough and flat out told them to bathe more frequently. They did and he had no problems on the subject thereafter.
Just one more proof that socialism stinks!
DB
The consequences of treating computer people like locksmiths would be severe. Mandatory professionalization would force the computer industry to slow down enough that the unions would start to have a realistic shot at it. Do you really want to be in a situation where some guy half way around the world is going to say 'tools up' and you are obligated to stop coding?
No thanks,
DB
I take it you have never heard of a decompiler. binaries are hard to look at but not impossible. A highly motivated (read paid) black hat *will* go through the trouble of deciphering and diagramming out your confusing code, after all, it's his job.
The white hats who benevolently find this stuff without compensation aren't going to violate laws or go through the trouble of unwrapping your riddle in an enigma. After all, nobody's paying them and if it isn't fun enough, why bother. There certainly is other code to review where the writers are not intentionally giving them the middle finger.
The result is that you have cracked programs and nobody is sounding the alarm until it is too late and China's investment of a cracker brigade gets them the ability to send hostile code into the Win2k control systems of the US Navy's smart ships.
Does this make it clear?
DB
A little off topic but harmfully hacking a hospital to cause deaths isn't very hard, it's just not as obvious as hacking an individual's medical equipment. Turning off the HVAC systems in July in Arizona is, unfortunately, all too easy and guaranteed to cause a large bodycount.
I learned about that one at a hacker kiddie BBS in the 80's. It was one of those classic conversations of the greenhorn saying "what's this" and more experienced hands saying "stop it before you kill someone". I suspect the practice of dialup control of HVAC systems hasn't changed much since then.
Life support covers a wider range of infrastructure than you think. There are two major water lines that feed into NYC. A little bit of drilling and demolition work in the woods of Westchester county and you would not be able to truck in enough water to avoid major population evacuation (AFAIK they are still working on tunnel 3). The knowledge necessary to carry off this attack gets broadcast over PBS programs in the area at least once a year.
I won't go into the several other ways 5 reasonably intelligent middle schoolers came up with (in about two days) to cause unstoppable havoc and mayhem but let's put it this way. City living is remarkably fragile and the stupidity of terrorists both cyber and the garden variety kind is a continuing gift from God.
DB
Actually, I'd be interested in Wine for the ability to run Windows software that isn't ported to mac without having to pay the windows tax.
DB
But where's the OS X port?
And how will BG & Microsoft fire people in other companies or put people out of business without govt. enforcement of EULA licenses that are, quite arguably, unconstitutional? The point stands that it is the government that is providing the coercion while BG is merely renting that power (see UCITA). Correcting contract law would render much of MS's business practices untenable and force BG to compete & truly innovate or watch his empire come apart faster than he put it together.
DB
You are close, but not quite correct to say that BG's unethical business practices are a form of coercion. The non-violent acts of any party isn't coercive. The problem is when the state enforces those acts with guns that coercion enters into the equation.
Let's give a concrete example. There are literally thousands and thousands of houses in the US with contract clauses that state that the buyer contracts to not sell the property to nonwhites. Several decades ago, such contract clauses were ruled non-enforceable and poof! the problem disappeared as a practical matter. Since it costs a good deal of money to formally remove the clause from the state paperwork, there are quite probably cases where black people are selling to other blacks with the contracts still formally intact.
As for accepting 'partial compliance' with what I think is right on issues I think of as vital, any libertarian does that every day. To do otherwise would require full time activism for any holder of the philosophy pretty much anywhere in the world. Most people, even consistent people, accept half a loaf on even vital issues for self-preservation.
DB
"I'm sure he's white, with that selfish Libertarian philosophy".
Try that BS with Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, or Larry Elder, all three black libertarians. Yes, Harry Browne is white but to say that if you have sufficient melanin, you can't be a libertarian (why? do you think it makes blacks too stupid to join the group?) or even more perfidious, are you saying that anybody with a melanin count sufficient to put himself out of the white race is a race traitor for adopting a particular political philosophy?
What a nasty, nasty, mind you have.
DB