I have a feeling that in a "law and order" country like the US, the law would never actually stop being enforced - law enforcement and judiciary would make up something about the "spirit" of the law or some other legal nonsense.
Got a citation for that or are you just looking to repeat stereotypes about the US? It's interesting that you could condemn the US criminal justice system when we still have our right to remain silent and right against self-incrimination. Tell me, how are those rights faring in the UK? Surely they don't hold it against you if you remain silent or compel you to be a witness against yourself?
I suppose, in theory, one could impose filtering at the ISP level and stop the bulk of casual P2P traffic.
.... at least until every single p2p client enabled encryption by default.
Ultimately, I think that the only viable solution will be a patronage system. The content will be given away for free and a tip jar will be set out for fans to contribute to.
That might work for music but how is it going to work for software or movies that cost tens of millions (or more) to produce? I suppose movies could still make money from the theaters but what happens to the game industry?
I don't understand Apple's argument that this would replace core iPhone functionality. It doesn't replace it, it simply provides another way of making calls.
Maybe Apple doesn't care that much (although I'd imagine that having Google anything on the phone must drive Jobs nuts) but AT&T's argument was that it would replace core AT&T profit centers?
You are thinking of the it takes nine months to make a baby put 9 women on it. It *DOES NOT WORK*. You end up with product that does to much with too little focus.
Yeah, but there's one hell of a lucky male in that picture that you forgot to mention;)
Put a fork in it. I'm just trying to convey a point of view. If you don't want to hear it then stop responding.
In many neighborhoods, it takes the cops hours to get there
How is that remotely relevant when your life isn't in danger in the first place? If it takes them hours to get there then the debt collector will eventually get bored and leave. If he escalates the situation (kicks your door down, starts throwing stuff through the windows, pulls out a weapon, etc) then by all means defend yourself. Absent such escalation there's no reason at all to introduce a firearm into the equation.
So now the standard is that I should let someone break down my door?
No, the standard is that your life must be threatened before you employ deadly force. A reasonable person would believe that someone who kicked your door down was a threat to your life. A reasonable person is considerably less likely to believe that someone whose only crime is a refusal to leave your front porch represents such a threat.
Your ideas on self-defense are noble, but naive, and not charmingly or disarmingly either.
I'm being called naive? By someone who is advocating the introduction of deadly force into a situation that involves nothing more than simple trespass? That's rich.
Have fun standing before the grand jury of your peers after you shoot someone for trespassing. Even if they clear you it's going to cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills and will probably come with other consequences (loss of employment/livelihood, broken relationships, mental anguish, etc) as well.
I've talked to numerous people who have had to defend themselves with deadly force. I've seen it in my own family when a relative of mine had to shoot an attempted rapist to save her own life. It took her years to come to terms with what she had to do. To hear armchair internet warriors casually speak about blowing away trespassers really makes my blood boil.
1).45 caliber 1911 style handgun (gets the job done)
2).357 magnum revolver (gets the job done with a louder bang)
3) 10mm auto handgun (gets the job done and lets you pretend to be Ted Nugent)
4).44 magnum revolver (gets the job done and lets you pretend to be Clint Eastwood)
5) 9mm handgun (gets the job done and lets you pretend that you have a real gun;)
6) 12 gauge shotgun (gets the job done and looks/sounds really cool)
7).30-06 rifle (REALLY gets the job done)
8).50BMG rifle (useful if you run into a hard drive with armor plate)
9).22LR plinking rifle (gets the job done in a cost effective manner)
10).223 fired from an AR-15 (gets the job done while scaring the crap out of any nearby big city types that assume any black rifle with a pistol grip is a weapon of mass destruction)
And all someone really has to do is come towards me while I'm holding a weapon and telling them to go away from me before I assume they have intent to engage me in combat.
Hence why I asked the original question several posts ago of why would you introduce a firearm into a situation where your life wasn't being threatened? The scenario was someone is on your porch and refuses to leave when asked. Do you pull out a gun and "encourage" them to leave or do you close the door and call the cops? If you pull out the gun they might leave or they might try to grab for it. If they make the grab for it then you have to shoot them to save yourself.
I just don't think it's worth introducing a firearm into that situation. You've escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated. Close the door and call the cops. If they bust your door down then by all means blow them away. Short of that, it's simply not worth it, IMHO.
Much of what is wrong with our world is that people commit gross offenses without consequences every day.
You'll brook no argument from me on this point. Violent criminals should receive life sentences with no chance of parole until they are too old and feeble to represent a threat. If you kill someone you should leave prison in a body bag. If you have a history of violence short of murder then you should forfeit all of your productive years and leave when your body is so broken down that you don't represent a threat to the rest of us.
You claim drawing a knife on someone, but from 15' away, isn't a threat.
No, I claimed they aren't an imminent threat. Please explain to how someone 15 yards away with a knife can kill you before you can squeeze a trigger. There is no reason to shoot them unless they attempt to advance on you to use that knife or have friends who are approaching you.
Bull. Police get this exact same reason; they can shot if THEY feel threatened.
And the standard that they are held to is the same one that you will be held to. Would a reasonable person have felt threatened in that same situation? You still haven't explained why a reasonable person would fear for his life just because some asshat refused to leave his porch. Close the fucking door and call the cops. If they kick your door down then shoot them until they hit the ground or the slide locks open. I have no problem with that. I do have a serious problem with blowing someone away over simple trespass.
No, instead you'll be living in terror because you can't defend yourself and were chased out of your own home.
The duty to retreat in my state does not extend to one's own residence. You are free to defend your residence with deadly force when faced with the crimes of burglary or arson. You are not allowed to do so for simple trespass.
Didn't read the article about the man in TX that shot someone robbing HIS NEIGHBORS house, did you? Not even sure it got to a grand jury.
The last time I looked robbery != trespassing. Yes, it did get to grand jury and they declined to indict him. I seem to recall a recent interview where he said that he was torn up by the whole affair and now wishes he had never left his house. He interjected himself into a situation where no innocent human life was at risk (he knew the house was unoccupied) and had to kill two people to save himself. Now he gets to live with that for the rest of his life.
You assume you can always get away.
No, I made such assumption. You are again putting words into my mouth. Go back and read what I wrote again: "Personally, I'd run from them if able to safely do so just because I'm not eager to take a human life. If my back is to the wall and/or I can't retreat safely then I'll do whatever is necessary to ensure that I'm going home in one piece."
I also don't want some scumbag who broke into my house doing it to someone else.
I won't be chased out of my own house. There's a different standard in my state for defending the home and defending your person when out in the public space.
I'd rather not go through it, but if someone else forces me into that spot, I'll do what I need to.
I'll do what I need to do too, I'm just not going to blow someone away whose only crime is refusing to leave my porch. That's been the example all along and I'm still not convinced by your argument that such a person is an imminent threat to your life.
Maybe you should grow up and face facts; not every human life is unique and valuable.
There you go again. I never made any such claim. All I said was that I'm not going to take a human life unless it's the only way to save my own. I made no statement either way regarding the value or uniqueness of human life. Personally I could care less when some criminal scumbag earns himself a lead induced exit from this world. I'm just not going to be the one squeezing the trigger unless he was actually trying to take my life or the life of another.
1. The person has no right to see me face to face regarding the debt, outside of court that is. What component is there in a face to face meeting that's not over the phone or via mail? The threat of physical violence. The very fact they showed up on my door instead of filing a lawsuit proves they are trying to use physical violence as a threat.
No, it proves they want to talk to you face to face. Talking is not the same as using physical violence.
When you tell someone to leave, they MUST leave. The fact that they refuse to is also threatening. What valid reason do they have for refusing your request for them to leave your property? Again, they don't want to because that removes their threat of physical violence.
Yes, they must leave. But just because they don't doesn't mean you get to blow them away absent any other indication of a threat.
Bull. You also assume both men also posses the same fighting skills
I assume nothing. I'm only relaying to you what the standard is in my state. If you pulled your gun here in response to a thrown punch you are almost certainly going to jail.
Personally, if I am in a fight, I'd rather have an absolute advantage, because I wouldn't want to risk losing.
Then carry pepper spray. Now you have a response that doesn't rise to the level of deadly force. This is a smart idea anyway it gives you a different response option for situations where a firearm isn't warranted or for those places (the Post Office) where you aren't allowed to carry one.
Huh? No smaller man ever killed a larger, stronger man with his bare fists? You're delusional.
No, again, I'm telling the standard that I learned. Why don't you stop with the insults and read what I'm writing?
Oh, because there's a magical force preventing said person from moving closer. Do you think its ok to draw a knife on someone, even if a bit out of range?
If they move closer then you can shoot them. You don't get to shoot someone who is 15 yards away with a knife. They aren't an imminent threat to you. And where the hell did I say that it was "ok" to draw a knife on someone? Stop putting words in my mouth.
Yet some stranger I don't know who shows up at my door, well I can't really be sure what his intent is
You don't get to preemptively shoot people because you "can't be sure" what their intent is. If they demonstrate they have intent to do you serious bodily harm and if they have the means to carry out that threat, then you can defend yourself with deadly force.
Why should I have to run from someone who is theatening me? Why SHOULDN'T such a person not be shot on site?
Again, I was only relaying to you the standard that I learned and how the use of deadly force is regulated in my state. In my state if you shot someone just because they refused to leave your porch you'd be going to jail. You can spin it any way you want but someone sitting on your porch is not threatening to take your life away from you.
As for, why you should run? Personally, I'd run from them if able to safely do so just because I'm not eager to take a human life. If my back is to the wall and/or I can't retreat safely then I'll do whatever is necessary to ensure that I'm going home in one piece. If it's not, then I'd rather not have to live with myself after ending a human life.
If that bit of reasoning doesn't move you, then consider it from a more practical standpoint. Lawyers cost lots of money. If you shoot someone then you are going to need one, even if you live in one of the castle doctrine states. If it goes as far as the grand jury your legal bills will be in the thousands of dollars. If it goes to trial they will be in the tens of thousands of dollars.
I was helping a friend move once, and she clipped the bumper of an illegally parked car (too close to the corner, in front of a fire hydrant) with her moving truck. The owner of the car insisted on calling the cops. They showed up, gave him a ticket for being parked illegally, and another ticket for having let his insurance lapse when they looked that up, too.
I can beat that. Back in my college drinking says we all used to hang out on this one particular street in town that's filled with college bars and drunk undergrads. Across the street is a parking garbage. I'm leaving there one night and this car comes at us the wrong way and blocks the exit. The owner starts to yell at us and insists that we are going the wrong way and need to turn around.
I point out to him the signs showing the proper directions but he isn't interested in looking at those and yells at us to move. He then threatens to go get the cops if we don't move. While making this threat he slurs every other word. I tell him "Ok, go get the cops then" after which a friend of his does exactly that. The police arrive, inform him that he's driving the wrong way and then ask him how much he's had to drink. A few minutes later he's in cuffs and the backseat of a patrol car.
Bad science like that "jolts" me out of the story and takes-away the realism, just as surely as if I was watching 24 and Jack Bauer started to cast fireballs.
Yeah, because Jack Bauer is obviously based on realistic human skill and ability;)
What episode did JMS claim that in? I don't recall that but it's been awhile since I've watched the show.
I see you didn't defend the Storm Trooper armor...
The armor is easier to defend than their marksmanship;)
Here we have the pride of the Empire. A professional solider who was cloned from stock hand selected to be the most effective killing machine possible. He spends every waking minute either training for battle or fighting in one. There's Han Solo, less than ten meters away. Avowed enemy of the empire. Working with the terrorist Luke Skywalker to try and overthrow the Emperor. He's ours now! The Stormtrooper raises his blaster to his shoulder, aims, fires....... and misses!
I rather liked the attitude that JMS had about this kind of stuff. One time a fan asked him "How fast do starfuries go?" and his response was "They move at the speed of plot"
If the plot makes sense and the universe remains consistent about it's own rules then who cares how functional RD2D would be in our universe or how badly designed the weapons of Star Trek are?
When it comes right down to it, willful trespassing (as in, you have been instructed to depart and refuse to do so) is a kind of assault, it in fact represents a threat to your life and liberty.
How does someone standing on your front porch represent a threat to your life and liberty? Pretend I'm in the grand jury reviewing your actions and explain to me why a reasonable person (that's the standard in most states) would have feared for their life in the situation that you faced.
People die in fistfights every day, arguments escalate into those fistfights every day, and I am not willing to get into one. I am far more willing to spray someone's obviously malfunctioning grey matter across my landscape.
In my state you'd go to jail if your sprayed their gray matter across your landscape to avoid a fist fight. The only way you'd get away with it is if you could make the case that such a disparity of force existed that you feared for your life in the fistfight. A 110 pound female facing a 300 pound male could justify shooting him to avoid the fistfight. A male facing another male who is roughly his equal in size and weight is not going to be able to make the same claim.
The standard that I was taught before deadly force can be employed consists of ability, opportunity, jeopardy and preclusion:
Ability: The actor has the means to creditably threaten your life. This could mean he has a gun, knife or has enough of a size advantage over you that a disparity of force exists.
Opportunity: The actor is close enough to use these means against your person. Someone who is 15 yards away with a knife has ability but no opportunity.
Jeopardy: Your life is actually in danger. My girlfriend who is slicing up onions has both ability (a knife) and opportunity (I'm close to her and my back is turned) but she's obviously not threatening me and thus I'm not in jeopardy.
Preclusion: You've exhausted all options short of deadly force to avoid the situation. If you can run away from the actor at no risk to yourself then you are expected to do so. The standard here is a little bit different if you are on your own property (you aren't expected to retreat from your own house) or if the life of another is at risk (you don't have to abandon the woman being raped in the alleyway just because you can safely retreat) but the general idea is that deadly force is supposed to be a last resort.
I avoid it by knowing the banks rules and playing by their rules. Your "totally free" account is only free if you know the rules and play by them.
I never use my debit as a Debit card but as a Credit card. Otherwise I get charged a tiny fee for it. NEVER EVER deposit at the teller as you get a fee, but deposit before 2:30pm at the ATM.
Why the hell are you doing business with a bank that treats you in such a manner? Go find a local community bank and do business with them instead. None of the locally owned banks around these parts treat their customers like that. For extra points join a credit union if there's one around you that you qualify for membership in. Here's a list of the horrible things that my credit union does to me:
Free (as in beer) checking with no hidden fees, balance requirements, etc.
Free ATM access with up to $15 in reimbursements per month if I'm charged an ATM fee by another institution
Free billpayer services
Free debit card, regardless of whether I use it with the PIN (which I only do if I want cashback) or as credit
A credit card with a FIXED interest rate of 7.9% APR, the usual grace period if paid in full and a single page account agreement that doesn't have an arbitration clause or any of the usual anti-consumer bullshit in it. You can actually read and understand it without having a law degree. I can even take cash advances on this card without being charged a fee (other than interest that accrues at 7.9% APR) for doing so.
One free order of checks per year.
Interest rate reductions on loans and increases on CDs for each service (checking, credit card, billpayer, direct deposit, etc) that I have with the credit union.
"Free" secured loans (they charge the same interest on the loan as you are being paid on the savings account used to secure it) for those looking to establish their credit
Free overdraft protection for those who request it
Did you not see the part where I said you should keep the kids rooms close to your own so you can grab them in the event that someone is in your house?
Go talk to someone who has actually had to take a human life and let me know if you can make that pronouncement as easily as you just did. I've known individuals who have had to defend themselves against certain death and yet still have a hard time reconciling the fact that they took a human life. I think it's pretty arrogant of you to proclaim that you'd be able to live with it even if it turns out the person you killed wasn't a threat to you or your loved ones.
and two of those three aren't likely to let you cozily slip off to your "defensible location"
My defensible location is my bedroom, where my guns are stored and my cell phone is located. If I hear somebody breaking into my house in the wee hours of the morning I have no compelling reason to leave this location. If for whatever reason I'm not already there then I'm going to have to make my best effort to get there. I don't know about you but I don't usually strap on my handgun when I wake up at 2am to take a piss:)
If you are serious about home defense then you ought to have a safe room. Pick an easy to reach room in your house and fortify it. Replace the cheap hollow inside door with a good solid outdoor one. Have one or more loaded firearms within easy reach. Keep your charged cell phone in this room along with a good flashlight. If you have kids try to locate this room as close as possible to their bedrooms so you can grab them quickly and protect them until help arrives.
It's personal responsibility
Yeah, it is. The moron kid was entirely to blame for the situation. That fact isn't going to be much comfort to the person who ended his life.
The gun wouldn't come out from behind the door if I didn't feel threatened.
Well, then you are more sensible than the AC who started this discussion:) His bright idea was to brandish the firearm to scare the person off your property. Not a very wise choice, IMHO, even if legal in your jurisdiction.
Just for the record, I don't have a problem with keeping a firearm handy in case the situation turns violent. I have a concealed carry permit and more often than not have a cocked and locked.45 on my hip. I just wouldn't bring my firearm out into the open over something as trivial as trespassing.
Slashdot Mirror
I have a feeling that in a "law and order" country like the US, the law would never actually stop being enforced - law enforcement and judiciary would make up something about the "spirit" of the law or some other legal nonsense.
Got a citation for that or are you just looking to repeat stereotypes about the US? It's interesting that you could condemn the US criminal justice system when we still have our right to remain silent and right against self-incrimination. Tell me, how are those rights faring in the UK? Surely they don't hold it against you if you remain silent or compel you to be a witness against yourself?
I suppose, in theory, one could impose filtering at the ISP level and stop the bulk of casual P2P traffic.
.... at least until every single p2p client enabled encryption by default.
Ultimately, I think that the only viable solution will be a patronage system. The content will be given away for free and a tip jar will be set out for fans to contribute to.
That might work for music but how is it going to work for software or movies that cost tens of millions (or more) to produce? I suppose movies could still make money from the theaters but what happens to the game industry?
I don't understand Apple's argument that this would replace core iPhone functionality. It doesn't replace it, it simply provides another way of making calls.
Maybe Apple doesn't care that much (although I'd imagine that having Google anything on the phone must drive Jobs nuts) but AT&T's argument was that it would replace core AT&T profit centers?
You are thinking of the it takes nine months to make a baby put 9 women on it. It *DOES NOT WORK*. You end up with product that does to much with too little focus.
Yeah, but there's one hell of a lucky male in that picture that you forgot to mention ;)
Holding a gun is not employing deadly force, until you pull the trigger.
No, you are just introducing the prospect of deadly force into a situation that didn't call for it.
I don't think anyone has a right to argue about whether I have a right to or even whether I should hold a gun on my own property.
I never said you didn't have the right. I only said that it's not a wise choice in the situation that was described above.
I'm sorry about her upbringing, what does it have to do with me?
Go fuck yourself.
How's the view from atop your ivory tower?
Put a fork in it. I'm just trying to convey a point of view. If you don't want to hear it then stop responding.
In many neighborhoods, it takes the cops hours to get there
How is that remotely relevant when your life isn't in danger in the first place? If it takes them hours to get there then the debt collector will eventually get bored and leave. If he escalates the situation (kicks your door down, starts throwing stuff through the windows, pulls out a weapon, etc) then by all means defend yourself. Absent such escalation there's no reason at all to introduce a firearm into the equation.
So now the standard is that I should let someone break down my door?
No, the standard is that your life must be threatened before you employ deadly force. A reasonable person would believe that someone who kicked your door down was a threat to your life. A reasonable person is considerably less likely to believe that someone whose only crime is a refusal to leave your front porch represents such a threat.
Your ideas on self-defense are noble, but naive, and not charmingly or disarmingly either.
I'm being called naive? By someone who is advocating the introduction of deadly force into a situation that involves nothing more than simple trespass? That's rich.
Have fun standing before the grand jury of your peers after you shoot someone for trespassing. Even if they clear you it's going to cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills and will probably come with other consequences (loss of employment/livelihood, broken relationships, mental anguish, etc) as well.
I've talked to numerous people who have had to defend themselves with deadly force. I've seen it in my own family when a relative of mine had to shoot an attempted rapist to save her own life. It took her years to come to terms with what she had to do. To hear armchair internet warriors casually speak about blowing away trespassers really makes my blood boil.
Basically your post is a poor attempt to wave you penis around.
Basically your post is a extremely effective attempt at demonstrating that you have absolutely no sense of humor ;)
Somebody already beat you to that idea....
1) .45 caliber 1911 style handgun (gets the job done)
2) .357 magnum revolver (gets the job done with a louder bang)
3) 10mm auto handgun (gets the job done and lets you pretend to be Ted Nugent)
4) .44 magnum revolver (gets the job done and lets you pretend to be Clint Eastwood)
5) 9mm handgun (gets the job done and lets you pretend that you have a real gun ;)
6) 12 gauge shotgun (gets the job done and looks/sounds really cool)
7) .30-06 rifle (REALLY gets the job done)
8) .50BMG rifle (useful if you run into a hard drive with armor plate)
9) .22LR plinking rifle (gets the job done in a cost effective manner)
10) .223 fired from an AR-15 (gets the job done while scaring the crap out of any nearby big city types that assume any black rifle with a pistol grip is a weapon of mass destruction)
The first thing that came to my mind for some reason was the assblasters from Tremors :)
And all someone really has to do is come towards me while I'm holding a weapon and telling them to go away from me before I assume they have intent to engage me in combat.
Hence why I asked the original question several posts ago of why would you introduce a firearm into a situation where your life wasn't being threatened? The scenario was someone is on your porch and refuses to leave when asked. Do you pull out a gun and "encourage" them to leave or do you close the door and call the cops? If you pull out the gun they might leave or they might try to grab for it. If they make the grab for it then you have to shoot them to save yourself.
I just don't think it's worth introducing a firearm into that situation. You've escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated. Close the door and call the cops. If they bust your door down then by all means blow them away. Short of that, it's simply not worth it, IMHO.
Much of what is wrong with our world is that people commit gross offenses without consequences every day.
You'll brook no argument from me on this point. Violent criminals should receive life sentences with no chance of parole until they are too old and feeble to represent a threat. If you kill someone you should leave prison in a body bag. If you have a history of violence short of murder then you should forfeit all of your productive years and leave when your body is so broken down that you don't represent a threat to the rest of us.
You claim drawing a knife on someone, but from 15' away, isn't a threat.
No, I claimed they aren't an imminent threat. Please explain to how someone 15 yards away with a knife can kill you before you can squeeze a trigger. There is no reason to shoot them unless they attempt to advance on you to use that knife or have friends who are approaching you.
Bull. Police get this exact same reason; they can shot if THEY feel threatened.
And the standard that they are held to is the same one that you will be held to. Would a reasonable person have felt threatened in that same situation? You still haven't explained why a reasonable person would fear for his life just because some asshat refused to leave his porch. Close the fucking door and call the cops. If they kick your door down then shoot them until they hit the ground or the slide locks open. I have no problem with that. I do have a serious problem with blowing someone away over simple trespass.
No, instead you'll be living in terror because you can't defend yourself and were chased out of your own home.
The duty to retreat in my state does not extend to one's own residence. You are free to defend your residence with deadly force when faced with the crimes of burglary or arson. You are not allowed to do so for simple trespass.
Didn't read the article about the man in TX that shot someone robbing HIS NEIGHBORS house, did you? Not even sure it got to a grand jury.
The last time I looked robbery != trespassing. Yes, it did get to grand jury and they declined to indict him. I seem to recall a recent interview where he said that he was torn up by the whole affair and now wishes he had never left his house. He interjected himself into a situation where no innocent human life was at risk (he knew the house was unoccupied) and had to kill two people to save himself. Now he gets to live with that for the rest of his life.
You assume you can always get away.
No, I made such assumption. You are again putting words into my mouth. Go back and read what I wrote again: "Personally, I'd run from them if able to safely do so just because I'm not eager to take a human life. If my back is to the wall and/or I can't retreat safely then I'll do whatever is necessary to ensure that I'm going home in one piece."
I also don't want some scumbag who broke into my house doing it to someone else.
I won't be chased out of my own house. There's a different standard in my state for defending the home and defending your person when out in the public space.
I'd rather not go through it, but if someone else forces me into that spot, I'll do what I need to.
I'll do what I need to do too, I'm just not going to blow someone away whose only crime is refusing to leave my porch. That's been the example all along and I'm still not convinced by your argument that such a person is an imminent threat to your life.
Maybe you should grow up and face facts; not every human life is unique and valuable.
There you go again. I never made any such claim. All I said was that I'm not going to take a human life unless it's the only way to save my own. I made no statement either way regarding the value or uniqueness of human life. Personally I could care less when some criminal scumbag earns himself a lead induced exit from this world. I'm just not going to be the one squeezing the trigger unless he was actually trying to take my life or the life of another.
1. The person has no right to see me face to face regarding the debt, outside of court that is. What component is there in a face to face meeting that's not over the phone or via mail? The threat of physical violence. The very fact they showed up on my door instead of filing a lawsuit proves they are trying to use physical violence as a threat.
No, it proves they want to talk to you face to face. Talking is not the same as using physical violence.
When you tell someone to leave, they MUST leave. The fact that they refuse to is also threatening. What valid reason do they have for refusing your request for them to leave your property? Again, they don't want to because that removes their threat of physical violence.
Yes, they must leave. But just because they don't doesn't mean you get to blow them away absent any other indication of a threat.
Bull. You also assume both men also posses the same fighting skills
I assume nothing. I'm only relaying to you what the standard is in my state. If you pulled your gun here in response to a thrown punch you are almost certainly going to jail.
Personally, if I am in a fight, I'd rather have an absolute advantage, because I wouldn't want to risk losing.
Then carry pepper spray. Now you have a response that doesn't rise to the level of deadly force. This is a smart idea anyway it gives you a different response option for situations where a firearm isn't warranted or for those places (the Post Office) where you aren't allowed to carry one.
Huh? No smaller man ever killed a larger, stronger man with his bare fists? You're delusional.
No, again, I'm telling the standard that I learned. Why don't you stop with the insults and read what I'm writing?
Oh, because there's a magical force preventing said person from moving closer. Do you think its ok to draw a knife on someone, even if a bit out of range?
If they move closer then you can shoot them. You don't get to shoot someone who is 15 yards away with a knife. They aren't an imminent threat to you. And where the hell did I say that it was "ok" to draw a knife on someone? Stop putting words in my mouth.
Yet some stranger I don't know who shows up at my door, well I can't really be sure what his intent is
You don't get to preemptively shoot people because you "can't be sure" what their intent is. If they demonstrate they have intent to do you serious bodily harm and if they have the means to carry out that threat, then you can defend yourself with deadly force.
Why should I have to run from someone who is theatening me? Why SHOULDN'T such a person not be shot on site?
Again, I was only relaying to you the standard that I learned and how the use of deadly force is regulated in my state. In my state if you shot someone just because they refused to leave your porch you'd be going to jail. You can spin it any way you want but someone sitting on your porch is not threatening to take your life away from you.
As for, why you should run? Personally, I'd run from them if able to safely do so just because I'm not eager to take a human life. If my back is to the wall and/or I can't retreat safely then I'll do whatever is necessary to ensure that I'm going home in one piece. If it's not, then I'd rather not have to live with myself after ending a human life.
If that bit of reasoning doesn't move you, then consider it from a more practical standpoint. Lawyers cost lots of money. If you shoot someone then you are going to need one, even if you live in one of the castle doctrine states. If it goes as far as the grand jury your legal bills will be in the thousands of dollars. If it goes to trial they will be in the tens of thousands of dollars.
You sure you re
As for the plans, maybe there was an engineer comments that said: /*This is a fatal design issue, will redress later*/ heh.
Damn defense contractors ;)
I was helping a friend move once, and she clipped the bumper of an illegally parked car (too close to the corner, in front of a fire hydrant) with her moving truck. The owner of the car insisted on calling the cops. They showed up, gave him a ticket for being parked illegally, and another ticket for having let his insurance lapse when they looked that up, too.
I can beat that. Back in my college drinking says we all used to hang out on this one particular street in town that's filled with college bars and drunk undergrads. Across the street is a parking garbage. I'm leaving there one night and this car comes at us the wrong way and blocks the exit. The owner starts to yell at us and insists that we are going the wrong way and need to turn around.
I point out to him the signs showing the proper directions but he isn't interested in looking at those and yells at us to move. He then threatens to go get the cops if we don't move. While making this threat he slurs every other word. I tell him "Ok, go get the cops then" after which a friend of his does exactly that. The police arrive, inform him that he's driving the wrong way and then ask him how much he's had to drink. A few minutes later he's in cuffs and the backseat of a patrol car.
The fucking genius got himself charged with DWI.
Bad science like that "jolts" me out of the story and takes-away the realism, just as surely as if I was watching 24 and Jack Bauer started to cast fireballs.
Yeah, because Jack Bauer is obviously based on realistic human skill and ability ;)
What episode did JMS claim that in? I don't recall that but it's been awhile since I've watched the show.
TD-0013 does it best:
http://www.adpov.net/2005/03/09/adpov-001/
That's fucking awesome, just so you know. Reminds me of the old Cops/Stormtroopers parody.
To criticize it's light saber technology is like criticizing Xena's chakram physics.
I wouldn't mind a chance to try out some physics experiments with Xena ;) Or Gabrielle for that matter. Least before they made her into a damn blonde.
I'm sorry, what were you talking about again?
I see you didn't defend the Storm Trooper armor...
The armor is easier to defend than their marksmanship ;)
Here we have the pride of the Empire. A professional solider who was cloned from stock hand selected to be the most effective killing machine possible. He spends every waking minute either training for battle or fighting in one. There's Han Solo, less than ten meters away. Avowed enemy of the empire. Working with the terrorist Luke Skywalker to try and overthrow the Emperor. He's ours now! The Stormtrooper raises his blaster to his shoulder, aims, fires....... and misses!
Dude, you've got too much time on your hands ;)
I rather liked the attitude that JMS had about this kind of stuff. One time a fan asked him "How fast do starfuries go?" and his response was "They move at the speed of plot"
If the plot makes sense and the universe remains consistent about it's own rules then who cares how functional RD2D would be in our universe or how badly designed the weapons of Star Trek are?
When it comes right down to it, willful trespassing (as in, you have been instructed to depart and refuse to do so) is a kind of assault, it in fact represents a threat to your life and liberty.
How does someone standing on your front porch represent a threat to your life and liberty? Pretend I'm in the grand jury reviewing your actions and explain to me why a reasonable person (that's the standard in most states) would have feared for their life in the situation that you faced.
People die in fistfights every day, arguments escalate into those fistfights every day, and I am not willing to get into one. I am far more willing to spray someone's obviously malfunctioning grey matter across my landscape.
In my state you'd go to jail if your sprayed their gray matter across your landscape to avoid a fist fight. The only way you'd get away with it is if you could make the case that such a disparity of force existed that you feared for your life in the fistfight. A 110 pound female facing a 300 pound male could justify shooting him to avoid the fistfight. A male facing another male who is roughly his equal in size and weight is not going to be able to make the same claim.
The standard that I was taught before deadly force can be employed consists of ability, opportunity, jeopardy and preclusion:
Ability: The actor has the means to creditably threaten your life. This could mean he has a gun, knife or has enough of a size advantage over you that a disparity of force exists.
Opportunity: The actor is close enough to use these means against your person. Someone who is 15 yards away with a knife has ability but no opportunity.
Jeopardy: Your life is actually in danger. My girlfriend who is slicing up onions has both ability (a knife) and opportunity (I'm close to her and my back is turned) but she's obviously not threatening me and thus I'm not in jeopardy.
Preclusion: You've exhausted all options short of deadly force to avoid the situation. If you can run away from the actor at no risk to yourself then you are expected to do so. The standard here is a little bit different if you are on your own property (you aren't expected to retreat from your own house) or if the life of another is at risk (you don't have to abandon the woman being raped in the alleyway just because you can safely retreat) but the general idea is that deadly force is supposed to be a last resort.
Banks are only a tiny step above loan sharks
I avoid it by knowing the banks rules and playing by their rules. Your "totally free" account is only free if you know the rules and play by them.
I never use my debit as a Debit card but as a Credit card. Otherwise I get charged a tiny fee for it. NEVER EVER deposit at the teller as you get a fee, but deposit before 2:30pm at the ATM.
Why the hell are you doing business with a bank that treats you in such a manner? Go find a local community bank and do business with them instead. None of the locally owned banks around these parts treat their customers like that. For extra points join a credit union if there's one around you that you qualify for membership in. Here's a list of the horrible things that my credit union does to me:
Free (as in beer) checking with no hidden fees, balance requirements, etc.
Free ATM access with up to $15 in reimbursements per month if I'm charged an ATM fee by another institution
Free billpayer services
Free debit card, regardless of whether I use it with the PIN (which I only do if I want cashback) or as credit
A credit card with a FIXED interest rate of 7.9% APR, the usual grace period if paid in full and a single page account agreement that doesn't have an arbitration clause or any of the usual anti-consumer bullshit in it. You can actually read and understand it without having a law degree. I can even take cash advances on this card without being charged a fee (other than interest that accrues at 7.9% APR) for doing so.
One free order of checks per year.
Interest rate reductions on loans and increases on CDs for each service (checking, credit card, billpayer, direct deposit, etc) that I have with the credit union.
"Free" secured loans (they charge the same interest on the loan as you are being paid on the savings account used to secure it) for those looking to establish their credit
Free overdraft protection for those who request it
Did you not see the part where I said you should keep the kids rooms close to your own so you can grab them in the event that someone is in your house?
Actually, yes I could live with myself
Go talk to someone who has actually had to take a human life and let me know if you can make that pronouncement as easily as you just did. I've known individuals who have had to defend themselves against certain death and yet still have a hard time reconciling the fact that they took a human life. I think it's pretty arrogant of you to proclaim that you'd be able to live with it even if it turns out the person you killed wasn't a threat to you or your loved ones.
and two of those three aren't likely to let you cozily slip off to your "defensible location"
My defensible location is my bedroom, where my guns are stored and my cell phone is located. If I hear somebody breaking into my house in the wee hours of the morning I have no compelling reason to leave this location. If for whatever reason I'm not already there then I'm going to have to make my best effort to get there. I don't know about you but I don't usually strap on my handgun when I wake up at 2am to take a piss :)
If you are serious about home defense then you ought to have a safe room. Pick an easy to reach room in your house and fortify it. Replace the cheap hollow inside door with a good solid outdoor one. Have one or more loaded firearms within easy reach. Keep your charged cell phone in this room along with a good flashlight. If you have kids try to locate this room as close as possible to their bedrooms so you can grab them quickly and protect them until help arrives.
It's personal responsibility
Yeah, it is. The moron kid was entirely to blame for the situation. That fact isn't going to be much comfort to the person who ended his life.
The gun wouldn't come out from behind the door if I didn't feel threatened.
Well, then you are more sensible than the AC who started this discussion :) His bright idea was to brandish the firearm to scare the person off your property. Not a very wise choice, IMHO, even if legal in your jurisdiction.
Just for the record, I don't have a problem with keeping a firearm handy in case the situation turns violent. I have a concealed carry permit and more often than not have a cocked and locked .45 on my hip. I just wouldn't bring my firearm out into the open over something as trivial as trespassing.