Of course not. I wrote that the criterion is whether it hurts or damages someone else. Messing with a car such that it compromises the safety or breathable air of others is not in view here. However I should be able to change the seat covers or stereo system without interference from outsiders. Modding the x-box in itself does not do damage to anyone. Copying stuff without permission does do some sort of damage, although far less than often claimed by copyright holders. If the person in question in the article did copy all that stuff without being authorized, he did real damage and is clearly wrong.
.....you don't "own" anything, just the right to "use" it.....
If I BUY anything, I OWN it, whether that is a car or a CD with music or software. In either case there are restrictions. Just because I own the car, I am not allowed to run over pedestrians with it. In the case of the CD or software, I am not allowed to copy and distribute it to others. If I want to modify the car or software, nobody is going to stop me, law or no law, because it it MINE. The deal is, if nobody is hurt, than it is ok as far as i am concerned.
If I buy a box with a CD therein and then click agree, that doesn't make an agreement by a long shot. To have a legally binding agreement of any kind, the parties to the agreement have to be unambiguously identified and must be of legal age to enter into an agreement. Just clicking a mouse on a computer does neither. Nobody can prove who clicked the mouse, and if the person who might ostensibly have clicked it was of legal age. Kids routinely install software in computers and game boxes. Neither adults nor kids can be held to such 'agreements'.
...... just because it is cheaper to pay him off.....
That is one of the main if not THE main sickness of the US legal system. Justice and what is right and true no longer matter. It is only money. If a person has plenty, then it is highly likely that they'll get away with crime or other stuff than someone who is poor. A high dollar lawyer has much more motivation to try to get a favorable decision than a poorly paid public defender. In the case of civil actions, such as this, a penniless defendant can never get justice in our system unless he can get a lawyer to take the case for some other reason that ultimately also involves money, often in the form of adding to the reputation of the lawyer for getting people off the hook. This translates into dollars for the lawyer in later cases. Since most polititians, judges or their friends are or were lawyers, this system will never change. Justice is VERY expensive, that is why people settle for some smaller extortion amount with outfits who trademark such common words or when confronted by the legal army of entities such as the *AA and others with deep pockets.
It seems that the most fundamental question alluded to in your sig is not on the list. Is there a God?
If there is, can we know Him? If there is not, how do we explain the origin of information and order in the Universe? As far as we can tell, the Universe is a closed system subject to entropy. All observations show that entropy can only be reversed by the application of energy combined with information. Your messy room will not clean itself up.
On our human level, we understand that information is the product of a mind. In computers, the software is the product of mind called programmers. One of the questions on the list was the about the biological basis of conscienceness. No matter how minutely anyone examines the chips and circuits of a computer, it is not possible by this to determine the operation or "personality" of a computer.
Software has some properties that are very different from physical things. Software as such, is not subject to inertia, gravity or entropy. Unlike matter, software can be transmitted at the speed of light and be easily duplicated and preserved forever. Software can be loaded into hardware it was never originally designed for. On my Mac I can and have run old DOS, every flavor of Windows, and Linux in addition to or under the normal OSX. Even in emulation, the old DOS programs run much faster than they ever did on the best x86 hardware that existed back when DOS was commonly used.
Similarly, human beings are really software, eternal, non-physical, who happen to be temporarily loaded into rather limiting hardware, flesh and blood bodies, subject to eventual death and decay because of the laws of entropy. This software, which theologians and philosphers commonly call the "soul" or "spirit" is not subject to death. Biology researchers examining the body will never find the "soul" any more than someone examining the chips and circuits of a computer can thereby determine what the software makes the computer function.
I believe there is a God, in whose mind orginiated all of the information content of both the physical world which science can directly explore and the non-physical world where scientists have yet no instrumentation for exploration.
....to be competing to see who makes the better product....
Unfortunately, most people first look at the initial price, rather than the total value of most products over time. That is a major reason why Apple has such a small share of the total computer market. In the case of the iPod, they have managed to make a cool product that is not significantly more expensive than the competition, because the major components cost of disk drive equipped music players is very similar for all manufacturers of such players. In the case of computers, the cost range of the processors is much wider. For now at least, a 64 bit or 32 bit processor does not mean much practical performance difference for most users.
As long as there are laws, there will be lawyers making money from them. In our society, the only ones that ever win from law suits are the lawyers. The rest of us just support them, since they produce absolutely nothing of value, but charge huge amounts of money.
Jesus Christ had some very harsh words for lawyers almost 2000 years ago. These lawyers finally persuaded the Roman Government to execute Him by crucifixtion. So from that perspective, getting sued by some lawyers over some software isn't quite so serious.
.... if more powerful processors are available companies will produce products that exploit it and people will buy it.....
As far as I know, there are really only three common application classes that fully tax even today's processors. 1) Video & sound, 2) Hi-res photo editing, and 3) games. Apple produces far better and usually faster apps in the first two, even now on the supposedly "slower" PPC based systems. The faster x86 chips will really only make a noticeable difference here.
As for games; it is neccessary to send a considerable fortune to get an x86 box that will outshine or even keep up with the very inexpensive console game boxes on the market TODAY. Just to get the graphics card equal to what the consoles do can set you back for more than the game console costs. Unless you need a general purpose PC for the above mentioneds uses, especially video, you get much more "bang for your buck" with a game console. I suspect that games on both PCs and especially Macs will become extinct when the next generation game boxes hit the market next year. In the end, special purpose hardware has been and still will ALWAYS be faster and cheaper than a general purpose computer.
As for market share WHO CARES? BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and other fine cars put together don't have the market share of makes like Chevy, Ford and Honda etc.
There are basically two types of consumers in this world. The majority look at the purchase cost first and usually that's all. The much smaller group looks at VALUE, which not only considers the initial cost, but long term ownership expenses over the life of the item and its intended major use. If a cheap beige box PC is only used by a consumer whose time and/or data is of no monetary value, it doesn't much matter if the thing dies from a hardware malfunction or more commonly, a malware infestation. Just format the HD and re-install everything. After all, the time is free! If a system craps out for a business, it becomes much more serious, potentially costing many times the purchase price in losses. Companies shackled to Windows PC's for various reasons, have spent and are still forced to spend billions, recovering from and/or guarding against malicious hackers of all types.
I believe that when consumers learn that they can buy an x86 Mac that will keep them free from malware in the future and yet still be able to run Windows and its apps without undue speed penalty, Apple will sell a lot of new Macs. You'll be able to throw your PC box in the trash, keep your other hardware and software and get all the cool iLife programs running under OSX, all for about the price of a Mini at $500 or maybe even less. Eventually you may even make Bill G. a little richer by buying a copy of OFFICE for the Mac if you need it.
...it's only going to run on the hardware that Apple decides on....
Yes, and that hardware will only be made by Apple. Specifications are subject to human interpretation. MS has specs for Windows hardware. Yet so often there are hardware incompatibilities in the MS universe. Why should Apple saddle themselves with such problems and in the bargain make less profit? They will integrate their computers with other coming technologies, such as high def TV and downloadable video on iTunes. Their new Quicktime 7.0 is a start in that direction already.
....I guarantee you with OSX x86 in place, Apple's hardware business could completely dissapear and they will make more money than they ever have in the history of Apple computers.....
Maybe if M$ went out of existence first. Fighting the M$ behemoth straight on is something nobody has been successful at. The landscape is littered with the corpses of dead companies that were stomped on by M$. Even the US government and the Europeans finally threw in the towel. If Apple is smart, they'll continue to make good products for those who appreciate high quality and are willing to pay for it.
....IBM will continue to make superior processors in the long run....
Who the h*** cares what processor or whatever else is in the box, other than the/. crowd? Joe or Jane user want a computer that works reliably, is secure and easy to use. If it looks good, that's a bonus. Repeat 100 times: It is the software that makes a computer a computer -- NOT the hardware guts. Other than the fact that it is slow sometimes, there is NO way an average user sitting at my Mac, surfing the net or word processing, running full screen Virtual PC, could tell that they are not running a Windows box, even today. A/. user could tell today, but maybe not when 5Ghz quad core processors become the norm. At tomorrows hardware speeds, the chip distinctions become almost totally irrelevant. It's not the x86 in good brand name boxes that makes the average machine such a malware infested piece of crap, but the Windows SOFTWARE that allows the installation of such malware. If there were a SINGLE, unified, reasonably easy to use Linux around that all, or at least most PC manufacturers could install and SELL, that too would be a much better alternative for many users.
....And in any case, they' think more than twice before walking away from the hardware market, which still accounts for most of their profits.....
At least as long as Steve runs Apple. They still are the ONLY computer maker that produces the entire gadget - the hardware and the software. This is one of the main reasons Apple has been and always will be superior to any of the the "other" alternatives. If they drop their HW business they will just be fighting M$ and that is a tough row to hoe.
....Apple never has been able to compete on price,.....
Neither has Porsche, Lexus, Mercedes and BMW to name a few other companies. Apple hardware has traditionally been of much higher quality than those cheap no-name beige boxes. A good brand name, like HP, Toshiba, IBM and Sony have never been significantly less expensive that an equally equipped Mac. Comparing a cheap Dell with Apple is like comparing a Ferrari with a Chevy. The Apple Mini is a fine, well made machine for only $500, which is certainly competitive, but not dirt cheap, like certain Dell hardware. Anyone who uses their computer for making money in any sort of business will quickly pay more than the difference as soon as the next virus strikes their insecure Windows computer.
....open themselves up to the wider clone market....
Not likely, at least not as long as Steve is running Apple. You know what happened last time they tried the clone thing. The biggest strength of Apple is that they are the ONLY company that the makes the whole computer, hardware and software together as a SYSTEM. They don't have to worry whether their OS and the drivers will run on a zillion different configurations. For this reason they have been and will continue to make a better designed, better engineered products destined for those people who appreciate quality and are willing to pay a little extra for that.
If they allow OSX to run on cheap no-name, who knows where from x86 boxes, they'll be competing head to to with the M$ behemoth. Most poster here on/. seem to forget that Apple is only changing the processor. What makes everybody think that their computers will be cloned any more readily than now with the IBM PowerPC processor? Even if they don't use any fancy Intel encryption chips, they can build their hardware such that only the best/. geeks MIGHT be able to get OSX running on their other brand x86 box. That would not bother Apple any more than the fact that X-boxes can be hardware modded to run Linux or copied games bothers Microsoft too much. If anybody tries to do this commercially, they'd likely hear from Apple's legal eagles.
It seems that the one thing too many Linux advocates is what the ordinary users could not care less about - technical merit. Users want a machine that does what they want to do and not get in the way by asking for a lot of computer knowledge. Apple has understood this better than anyone else in the industry, proprietary or open. Their OSX is primarily designed for the desktop and networks quite well with Windows and Linux servers. Since servers are generally run by knowledgeble professionals, the ease of use is not as critical as with a desktop general use machine. It is for servers where Linux shines and is where it has made good progress and is not likely to be threatened by Apple's x86 chip change. I have been reading since at least 1999 that Linux will take over the desktop in "the next few years" or so. It NEVER will because there is no unified single version of Linux and ordinary users will NOT EVER compile the source code to run on a particular flavor. If the new Macs will run other OS, and are of the traditional high quality Apple is known for, many of these will have Linux on them and used as servers.
It is too slow for compute intensive apps such as graphics and games. It is certainly fast enough for much other work. On a PPC Mac it runs at about a third to half the speed of an equivalent real x86 PC which is plenty fast for some of the older legacy Windows programs many still have to work with for various reasons.
When VPC runs on a future x86 Mac it should run at full speed. Of course Windows on a Mac, whether PPC or x86 equipped is still subject to all the malware that plagues today's Windows boxes. Unless MS dramatically changes their security model in the next Windows, they may lose many customers. The drastic change needed to make Windows secure will force users to upgrade their apps or buy new ones. Traditionally, every new MS OS has required substantial more hardware horsepower. There is no reason to believe that this won't be the case again. Being forced once again to buy new hardware and new software may cause many present Windows users to buy an x86 Mac.
Apple can make a deal with quality PC makers (sorry Dell) to license them to sell their branded Mac OSX boxes with optional VPC with Windows installed. They did this licensing thing with HP and the iPod. It would be up to these manufacturers to support whatever variations of hardware they put in their boxes. I agree that this move by Apple is huge and will succeed if they don't revert back to their totaly closed hardware model.
...I'll be very surprised if Windows runs right out of the box.....
Apple said it would. Also, Virtual PC will likely be available, together with Windows, just as it is now for the PPC Macs. You can install almost anything on VPC that will install on a normal PC. MS will be glad to sell Windows with VPC to all the Mac customers. On the x86 Macs, the emulation speed penalty will disappear. With VPC you can run Windows or even Linux all simultaneously under the OSX.
...not ready for the masses applies to windows as well....
That is the funniest statement i've read in a long time! 90%+ of the world uses Windows and it's not ready for the masses!?! If you want to customize OSX, you can re-compile most *NIX programs and run them on a Mac. Is that not customizable enough? What do you want to customize?
There will always be some Windows programs that will not get ported to the Mac OSX, but that some people depend on. We use Windows on a Mac already via Virtual PC. There is no reason why that won't work so much better on an x86 Mac, since the emulation layer is gone. Use a nice secure Mac OSX for most work and yet have Windows available at the same time for the one or two apps that Mac doesn't have.
...Suddenly the Macintosh becomes a box which can run damn near all Windows apps and damn near all Linux apps, without ever leaving OS X...
So what else is new? Macs have been able to run most software that can be installed on any garden variety x86 PC via a program called Virtual PC. Microsoft bought out Connectix that originally made this program, but they still sell VPC for Macs. This setup is slower than a real PC because VPC emulates x86 HARDWARE on the PPC. When the x86 Macs come out, the emulation slowdown will largely disappear. So even if the new x86 Macs wouldn't boot windows directly (Apple said they will) Windows and Linux will still run on a Mac under OSX.
Repairing a Windows malware infested or otherwise hosed Windows running this way very easy. I keep two copies of the Virtual disk file - one for working with and a clean fully patched one that is never booted when the system is connected to the Internet. When the working file gets damaged severely enough, I copy any personal data to a shared folder on the Mac and throw the whole crocked Windows install in the trash. The clean file get duplicated and renamed to be the new, unsullied Windows installation. Copy back the data and go back to my work that requires Windows. The whole process takes about 15 minutes. I am looking forward to getting one of those new x86 Powerbooks as soon as Apple releases them.
Fine, I'll enjoy my virus and other malware free irrelevant Mac for the next year or two, while the Windows crowd continues to enjoy the freedom to struggle against the ever increasing and more sophisticated criminal hacks of the swiss cheese Windows OS. Hope the new Longjohn or whatever it will be called, finally will make all Windows users, (including us here) who can afford to buy a new PC, safer, along with the entire Internet. Since we use both Macs and Windows I know that I have to put in a lot of effort ALL the time to try keep the PCs running and reasonably malware free. For the Macs I essentially do nothing after they are first installed and set up.
I do truly believe that if Apple prices their x86 Macs reasonably and advertises that their boxes wil also run Windows and its existing software, they'll sell a great number, just like the iPod. Once these buyers find that the OSX part of their box just shrugs off all malware, but the Windows part is totally infested after a short time, they may erase the Winows partition to make room for some cool videos and more iTunes music.
As for Linux, I've been reading since at least 1999 of it taking over not only the server space, but also the desktop. The reason it has not, is that OSS in general and Linux in particular, is made by geeks for geeks who have a hard time getting behind the keyboard and mindset of the average consumer type user. I downloaded a copy of KNOPPIX and made a bootable CD. I works ok, but even I as a computer administrator have to work at finding the stuff I want to do. It is not intuitive and uses quite a bit of geeky jargon on many places.
Actually, I too think that some smart hackers will figure out how to run OSX on a non-Apple box. However, I think the economic incentive to do this on a large scale is not likely to take place. Anyone trying to MARKET such hacks will certainly have to deal with Apple's legal eagles. The masses of computer buyers will either buy an x86 Mac to run the much safer, friendlier OSX or continue to suffer the malware infestations of their Windows boxes. The big loser in all this will be Linux.
You are assuming that Apple's lock will be software circumventable. I think they will have some sort of special chips on their MOBO that will prevent multiple parts of the OSX from functioning if that chip isn't there. Hardware hackers, such as the x-box guys, may come up with a card or other device that will fool the OS into thinking it is running on a genuine Apple box. That means a number of hardware geeks may get OSX running on their hacked PC boxes, but for the vast majority, they'll buy a Mac to run OSX AND Windows.
Why has nobody made a PPC based Apple clone? Anybody can build a computer based on those chips in the same way as the Intel based ones. I think the Apple engineers are smart enough to figure out a way to make a computer that will not allow cloning without major engineering and legal obstacles.
By the time these new x86 Macs come on the market, MS may have their new Windows ready which will, if the past is an indicator, require the replacement or major upgrade of many existing PCs. If a new computer is needed to run the next Windows, many may opt to buy a Mac x86 box which will run both OSX and the new Windows. Putting a new MOBO into a PC is NOT and upgrade, but a new computer in the same old box.
Because most of the components in a PC and the new x86 Macs are the same, I don't think that those Macs will be significantly more expensive than HP or even Gateway. Dell uses crap parts and their hardware failures are higher than average. $500 is not too much to pay for a superbly made QUIET, unobtrusive computer. If the new x86 based Mini runs Windows well, it will sell like hotcakes.
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Of course not. I wrote that the criterion is whether it hurts or damages someone else. Messing with a car such that it compromises the safety or breathable air of others is not in view here. However I should be able to change the seat covers or stereo system without interference from outsiders. Modding the x-box in itself does not do damage to anyone. Copying stuff without permission does do some sort of damage, although far less than often claimed by copyright holders. If the person in question in the article did copy all that stuff without being authorized, he did real damage and is clearly wrong.
.....you don't "own" anything, just the right to "use" it.....
If I BUY anything, I OWN it, whether that is a car or a CD with music or software. In either case there are restrictions. Just because I own the car, I am not allowed to run over pedestrians with it. In the case of the CD or software, I am not allowed to copy and distribute it to others. If I want to modify the car or software, nobody is going to stop me, law or no law, because it it MINE. The deal is, if nobody is hurt, than it is ok as far as i am concerned.
.....the purchase agreement.....
If I buy a box with a CD therein and then click agree, that doesn't make an agreement by a long shot. To have a legally binding agreement of any kind, the parties to the agreement have to be unambiguously identified and must be of legal age to enter into an agreement. Just clicking a mouse on a computer does neither. Nobody can prove who clicked the mouse, and if the person who might ostensibly have clicked it was of legal age. Kids routinely install software in computers and game boxes. Neither adults nor kids can be held to such 'agreements'.
...... just because it is cheaper to pay him off.....
That is one of the main if not THE main sickness of the US legal system. Justice and what is right and true no longer matter. It is only money. If a person has plenty, then it is highly likely that they'll get away with crime or other stuff than someone who is poor. A high dollar lawyer has much more motivation to try to get a favorable decision than a poorly paid public defender. In the case of civil actions, such as this, a penniless defendant can never get justice in our system unless he can get a lawyer to take the case for some other reason that ultimately also involves money, often in the form of adding to the reputation of the lawyer for getting people off the hook. This translates into dollars for the lawyer in later cases. Since most polititians, judges or their friends are or were lawyers, this system will never change. Justice is VERY expensive, that is why people settle for some smaller extortion amount with outfits who trademark such common words or when confronted by the legal army of entities such as the *AA and others with deep pockets.
It seems that the most fundamental question alluded to in your sig is not on the list. Is there a God?
If there is, can we know Him? If there is not, how do we explain the origin of information and order in the Universe? As far as we can tell, the Universe is a closed system subject to entropy. All observations show that entropy can only be reversed by the application of energy combined with information. Your messy room will not clean itself up.
On our human level, we understand that information is the product of a mind. In computers, the software is the product of mind called programmers. One of the questions on the list was the about the biological basis of conscienceness. No matter how minutely anyone examines the chips and circuits of a computer, it is not possible by this to determine the operation or "personality" of a computer.
Software has some properties that are very different from physical things. Software as such, is not subject to inertia, gravity or entropy. Unlike matter, software can be transmitted at the speed of light and be easily duplicated and preserved forever. Software can be loaded into hardware it was never originally designed for. On my Mac I can and have run old DOS, every flavor of Windows, and Linux in addition to or under the normal OSX. Even in emulation, the old DOS programs run much faster than they ever did on the best x86 hardware that existed back when DOS was commonly used.
Similarly, human beings are really software, eternal, non-physical, who happen to be temporarily loaded into rather limiting hardware, flesh and blood bodies, subject to eventual death and decay because of the laws of entropy. This software, which theologians and philosphers commonly call the "soul" or "spirit" is not subject to death. Biology researchers examining the body will never find the "soul" any more than someone examining the chips and circuits of a computer can thereby determine what the software makes the computer function.
I believe there is a God, in whose mind orginiated all of the information content of both the physical world which science can directly explore and the non-physical world where scientists have yet no instrumentation for exploration.
....to be competing to see who makes the better product....
Unfortunately, most people first look at the initial price, rather than the total value of most products over time. That is a major reason why Apple has such a small share of the total computer market. In the case of the iPod, they have managed to make a cool product that is not significantly more expensive than the competition, because the major components cost of disk drive equipped music players is very similar for all manufacturers of such players. In the case of computers, the cost range of the processors is much wider. For now at least, a 64 bit or 32 bit processor does not mean much practical performance difference for most users.
...Imagine a world without lawyers.......
As long as there are laws, there will be lawyers making money from them. In our society, the only ones that ever win from law suits are the lawyers. The rest of us just support them, since they produce absolutely nothing of value, but charge huge amounts of money.
Jesus Christ had some very harsh words for lawyers almost 2000 years ago. These lawyers finally persuaded the Roman Government to execute Him by crucifixtion. So from that perspective, getting sued by some lawyers over some software isn't quite so serious.
.... if more powerful processors are available companies will produce products that exploit it and people will buy it.....
As far as I know, there are really only three common application classes that fully tax even today's processors. 1) Video & sound, 2) Hi-res photo editing, and 3) games. Apple produces far better and usually faster apps in the first two, even now on the supposedly "slower" PPC based systems. The faster x86 chips will really only make a noticeable difference here.
As for games; it is neccessary to send a considerable fortune to get an x86 box that will outshine or even keep up with the very inexpensive console game boxes on the market TODAY. Just to get the graphics card equal to what the consoles do can set you back for more than the game console costs. Unless you need a general purpose PC for the above mentioneds uses, especially video, you get much more "bang for your buck" with a game console. I suspect that games on both PCs and especially Macs will become extinct when the next generation game boxes hit the market next year. In the end, special purpose hardware has been and still will ALWAYS be faster and cheaper than a general purpose computer.
As for market share WHO CARES? BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and other fine cars put together don't have the market share of makes like Chevy, Ford and Honda etc.
There are basically two types of consumers in this world. The majority look at the purchase cost first and usually that's all. The much smaller group looks at VALUE, which not only considers the initial cost, but long term ownership expenses over the life of the item and its intended major use. If a cheap beige box PC is only used by a consumer whose time and/or data is of no monetary value, it doesn't much matter if the thing dies from a hardware malfunction or more commonly, a malware infestation. Just format the HD and re-install everything. After all, the time is free! If a system craps out for a business, it becomes much more serious, potentially costing many times the purchase price in losses. Companies shackled to Windows PC's for various reasons, have spent and are still forced to spend billions, recovering from and/or guarding against malicious hackers of all types.
I believe that when consumers learn that they can buy an x86 Mac that will keep them free from malware in the future and yet still be able to run Windows and its apps without undue speed penalty, Apple will sell a lot of new Macs. You'll be able to throw your PC box in the trash, keep your other hardware and software and get all the cool iLife programs running under OSX, all for about the price of a Mini at $500 or maybe even less. Eventually you may even make Bill G. a little richer by buying a copy of OFFICE for the Mac if you need it.
Apple is a company that makes money by making SYSTEMS that include both hardware and software as a seamless whole.
...it's only going to run on the hardware that Apple decides on....
Yes, and that hardware will only be made by Apple. Specifications are subject to human interpretation. MS has specs for Windows hardware. Yet so often there are hardware incompatibilities in the MS universe. Why should Apple saddle themselves with such problems and in the bargain make less profit? They will integrate their computers with other coming technologies, such as high def TV and downloadable video on iTunes. Their new Quicktime 7.0 is a start in that direction already.
....I guarantee you with OSX x86 in place, Apple's hardware business could completely dissapear and they will make more money than they ever have in the history of Apple computers.....
Maybe if M$ went out of existence first. Fighting the M$ behemoth straight on is something nobody has been successful at. The landscape is littered with the corpses of dead companies that were stomped on by M$. Even the US government and the Europeans finally threw in the towel. If Apple is smart, they'll continue to make good products for those who appreciate high quality and are willing to pay for it.
....IBM will continue to make superior processors in the long run....
/. crowd? Joe or Jane user want a computer that works reliably, is secure and easy to use. If it looks good, that's a bonus. Repeat 100 times: It is the software that makes a computer a computer -- NOT the hardware guts. Other than the fact that it is slow sometimes, there is NO way an average user sitting at my Mac, surfing the net or word processing, running full screen Virtual PC, could tell that they are not running a Windows box, even today. A /. user could tell today, but maybe not when 5Ghz quad core processors become the norm. At tomorrows hardware speeds, the chip distinctions become almost totally irrelevant. It's not the x86 in good brand name boxes that makes the average machine such a malware infested piece of crap, but the Windows SOFTWARE that allows the installation of such malware. If there were a SINGLE, unified, reasonably easy to use Linux around that all, or at least most PC manufacturers could install and SELL, that too would be a much better alternative for many users.
Who the h*** cares what processor or whatever else is in the box, other than the
....And in any case, they' think more than twice before walking away from the hardware market, which still accounts for most of their profits.....
At least as long as Steve runs Apple. They still are the ONLY computer maker that produces the entire gadget - the hardware and the software. This is one of the main reasons Apple has been and always will be superior to any of the the "other" alternatives. If they drop their HW business they will just be fighting M$ and that is a tough row to hoe.
....Apple never has been able to compete on price,.....
Neither has Porsche, Lexus, Mercedes and BMW to name a few other companies. Apple hardware has traditionally been of much higher quality than those cheap no-name beige boxes. A good brand name, like HP, Toshiba, IBM and Sony have never been significantly less expensive that an equally equipped Mac. Comparing a cheap Dell with Apple is like comparing a Ferrari with a Chevy. The Apple Mini is a fine, well made machine for only $500, which is certainly competitive, but not dirt cheap, like certain Dell hardware. Anyone who uses their computer for making money in any sort of business will quickly pay more than the difference as soon as the next virus strikes their insecure Windows computer.
....open themselves up to the wider clone market....
/. seem to forget that Apple is only changing the processor. What makes everybody think that their computers will be cloned any more readily than now with the IBM PowerPC processor? Even if they don't use any fancy Intel encryption chips, they can build their hardware such that only the best /. geeks MIGHT be able to get OSX running on their other brand x86 box. That would not bother Apple any more than the fact that X-boxes can be hardware modded to run Linux or copied games bothers Microsoft too much. If anybody tries to do this commercially, they'd likely hear from Apple's legal eagles.
Not likely, at least not as long as Steve is running Apple. You know what happened last time they tried the clone thing. The biggest strength of Apple is that they are the ONLY company that the makes the whole computer, hardware and software together as a SYSTEM. They don't have to worry whether their OS and the drivers will run on a zillion different configurations. For this reason they have been and will continue to make a better designed, better engineered products destined for those people who appreciate quality and are willing to pay a little extra for that.
If they allow OSX to run on cheap no-name, who knows where from x86 boxes, they'll be competing head to to with the M$ behemoth. Most poster here on
....but every technical review.....
It seems that the one thing too many Linux advocates is what the ordinary users could not care less about - technical merit. Users want a machine that does what they want to do and not get in the way by asking for a lot of computer knowledge. Apple has understood this better than anyone else in the industry, proprietary or open. Their OSX is primarily designed for the desktop and networks quite well with Windows and Linux servers. Since servers are generally run by knowledgeble professionals, the ease of use is not as critical as with a desktop general use machine. It is for servers where Linux shines and is where it has made good progress and is not likely to be threatened by Apple's x86 chip change. I have been reading since at least 1999 that Linux will take over the desktop in "the next few years" or so. It NEVER will because there is no unified single version of Linux and ordinary users will NOT EVER compile the source code to run on a particular flavor. If the new Macs will run other OS, and are of the traditional high quality Apple is known for, many of these will have Linux on them and used as servers.
...VPC was never very useful for anything....
It is too slow for compute intensive apps such as graphics and games. It is certainly fast enough for much other work. On a PPC Mac it runs at about a third to half the speed of an equivalent real x86 PC which is plenty fast for some of the older legacy Windows programs many still have to work with for various reasons.
When VPC runs on a future x86 Mac it should run at full speed. Of course Windows on a Mac, whether PPC or x86 equipped is still subject to all the malware that plagues today's Windows boxes. Unless MS dramatically changes their security model in the next Windows, they may lose many customers. The drastic change needed to make Windows secure will force users to upgrade their apps or buy new ones. Traditionally, every new MS OS has required substantial more hardware horsepower. There is no reason to believe that this won't be the case again. Being forced once again to buy new hardware and new software may cause many present Windows users to buy an x86 Mac.
Apple can make a deal with quality PC makers (sorry Dell) to license them to sell their branded Mac OSX boxes with optional VPC with Windows installed. They did this licensing thing with HP and the iPod. It would be up to these manufacturers to support whatever variations of hardware they put in their boxes. I agree that this move by Apple is huge and will succeed if they don't revert back to their totaly closed hardware model.
...I'll be very surprised if Windows runs right out of the box.....
Apple said it would. Also, Virtual PC will likely be available, together with Windows, just as it is now for the PPC Macs. You can install almost anything on VPC that will install on a normal PC. MS will be glad to sell Windows with VPC to all the Mac customers. On the x86 Macs, the emulation speed penalty will disappear. With VPC you can run Windows or even Linux all simultaneously under the OSX.
...not ready for the masses applies to windows as well....
That is the funniest statement i've read in a long time! 90%+ of the world uses Windows and it's not ready for the masses!?! If you want to customize OSX, you can re-compile most *NIX programs and run them on a Mac. Is that not customizable enough? What do you want to customize?
...Who would buy a Mac to run Windows...
There will always be some Windows programs that will not get ported to the Mac OSX, but that some people depend on. We use Windows on a Mac already via Virtual PC. There is no reason why that won't work so much better on an x86 Mac, since the emulation layer is gone. Use a nice secure Mac OSX for most work and yet have Windows available at the same time for the one or two apps that Mac doesn't have.
...Suddenly the Macintosh becomes a box which can run damn near all Windows apps and damn near all Linux apps, without ever leaving OS X...
So what else is new? Macs have been able to run most software that can be installed on any garden variety x86 PC via a program called Virtual PC. Microsoft bought out Connectix that originally made this program, but they still sell VPC for Macs. This setup is slower than a real PC because VPC emulates x86 HARDWARE on the PPC. When the x86 Macs come out, the emulation slowdown will largely disappear. So even if the new x86 Macs wouldn't boot windows directly (Apple said they will) Windows and Linux will still run on a Mac under OSX.
Repairing a Windows malware infested or otherwise hosed Windows running this way very easy. I keep two copies of the Virtual disk file - one for working with and a clean fully patched one that is never booted when the system is connected to the Internet. When the working file gets damaged severely enough, I copy any personal data to a shared folder on the Mac and throw the whole crocked Windows install in the trash. The clean file get duplicated and renamed to be the new, unsullied Windows installation. Copy back the data and go back to my work that requires Windows. The whole process takes about 15 minutes. I am looking forward to getting one of those new x86 Powerbooks as soon as Apple releases them.
.....Apple is all but irrelevent ....
Fine, I'll enjoy my virus and other malware free irrelevant Mac for the next year or two, while the Windows crowd continues to enjoy the freedom to struggle against the ever increasing and more sophisticated criminal hacks of the swiss cheese Windows OS. Hope the new Longjohn or whatever it will be called, finally will make all Windows users, (including us here) who can afford to buy a new PC, safer, along with the entire Internet. Since we use both Macs and Windows I know that I have to put in a lot of effort ALL the time to try keep the PCs running and reasonably malware free. For the Macs I essentially do nothing after they are first installed and set up.
I do truly believe that if Apple prices their x86 Macs reasonably and advertises that their boxes wil also run Windows and its existing software, they'll sell a great number, just like the iPod. Once these buyers find that the OSX part of their box just shrugs off all malware, but the Windows part is totally infested after a short time, they may erase the Winows partition to make room for some cool videos and more iTunes music.
As for Linux, I've been reading since at least 1999 of it taking over not only the server space, but also the desktop. The reason it has not, is that OSS in general and Linux in particular, is made by geeks for geeks who have a hard time getting behind the keyboard and mindset of the average consumer type user. I downloaded a copy of KNOPPIX and made a bootable CD. I works ok, but even I as a computer administrator have to work at finding the stuff I want to do. It is not intuitive and uses quite a bit of geeky jargon on many places.
Actually, I too think that some smart hackers will figure out how to run OSX on a non-Apple box. However, I think the economic incentive to do this on a large scale is not likely to take place. Anyone trying to MARKET such hacks will certainly have to deal with Apple's legal eagles. The masses of computer buyers will either buy an x86 Mac to run the much safer, friendlier OSX or continue to suffer the malware infestations of their Windows boxes. The big loser in all this will be Linux.
....Once a patch exists it will be days...
You are assuming that Apple's lock will be software circumventable. I think they will have some sort of special chips on their MOBO that will prevent multiple parts of the OSX from functioning if that chip isn't there. Hardware hackers, such as the x-box guys, may come up with a card or other device that will fool the OS into thinking it is running on a genuine Apple box. That means a number of hardware geeks may get OSX running on their hacked PC boxes, but for the vast majority, they'll buy a Mac to run OSX AND Windows.
...generic PCs into Apple compatible boxes...
Why has nobody made a PPC based Apple clone? Anybody can build a computer based on those chips in the same way as the Intel based ones. I think the Apple engineers are smart enough to figure out a way to make a computer that will not allow cloning without major engineering and legal obstacles.
By the time these new x86 Macs come on the market, MS may have their new Windows ready which will, if the past is an indicator, require the replacement or major upgrade of many existing PCs. If a new computer is needed to run the next Windows, many may opt to buy a Mac x86 box which will run both OSX and the new Windows. Putting a new MOBO into a PC is NOT and upgrade, but a new computer in the same old box.
Because most of the components in a PC and the new x86 Macs are the same, I don't think that those Macs will be significantly more expensive than HP or even Gateway. Dell uses crap parts and their hardware failures are higher than average. $500 is not too much to pay for a superbly made QUIET, unobtrusive computer. If the new x86 based Mini runs Windows well, it will sell like hotcakes.