As a Geography student back in 1990, I can tell you that we were taught the concept patented here minus the web interface. The idea of locating a point based on an address is geocoding. You can then generate a buffer around that point to select other spatial features (in this case businesses). I don't see anything unique or new here except that he slapped on a web front end, and plenty of other companies were doing similar things with their applications.
I have a post further up describing how this concept was described in my Geographic Information System (GIS) classes back in 1990. Location based search is a simple buffer around a point to select other geospatial features (in this case businesses). The initial point is obtained by doing a geocode against vector line file containing street address information and finding the coordinate point. I'm sure there are plenty of geography text books describing algorithms on how to do this. The only thing unique to this patent is that they planned to slap a web page on the front end. I hardly think that counts as obvious though as many people and companies were doing similar steps to web enable their applications.
I seem to recall learning about geocoding (locating a point on the ground by looking up an address) and site location based on spatial criteria when I was in my Geography classes (Geospatial Information systems) at Penn State back in the 1990. The idea of getting a point from an address and selecting other features based on a buffer (spatial shape around the point) isn't all that original. We did exercises to find suitable locations around a point using ESRI's ArcInfo (think it was version 5.x) software. One of the exercises had us locating a site to build a business and we needed to have access to various utilities while avoiding residential areas and schools. I'm sure early GIS textbooks define enough cases of implementing this, just not in a web based input form. I don't think though that web enabling this functionality though qualifies as something patentable.
I may not have stated it clearly enough but my family doesn't spend a lot of time looking through photos. I did state that my brother and I end up burning all the CDs and probably misrepresented the "non-tech" family members as being completely computer illiterate but most do use computers, know how to burn CDs, etc.... The "non-tech" members are not tech focused (i.e. horticulturist, plumbers, teachers, sales, etc...) but they do know how to use computers for the most part. I stated that my brother and I get this because we're both in IT positions so we are assigned the task (sort of like most IT people end up the computer support person at family gatherings too). While the table does have some intriguing features, I just don't see that it would change much for family/friend gatherings as for exchanging media. I think it would be interesting for most for the first time or two using it but after that, it is just another gadget that doesn't fill a demand.
As for complete non-tech people, they are likely to avoid this sort of device, even if it ultimately helps them. They are the type that avoid technology in general.
As for extending this to other file formats (documents, spreadsheets, graphs, etc...), I don't see much here that isn't already addressed in a NetMeeting environment or whatever other collaboration tools a company chooses to use. Unless you are creating a document at a "brain storming" session most documents are generated by a single individual, critiqued by a few peers, and then presented to a group for final review, integration into a larger document, or collaboration.
Where an input device like this could have some value is when working with link analysis or relationship analysis applications. I just don't see too many people using tools like that.
How often do you and your friends sit around sharing photos like that? At family gatherings, we'll often exchange CDs with photos or maybe someone will hook up a camera to a laptop to download and burn CDs of the event, but other than that, I don't see that happening too often. Even with the family events though, it generally ends up being my brother and I that prepare the CDs for exchanging with the non-tech family members and I bet they end up in a drawer somewhere instead of being enjoyed. Other than the initial "Wow" factor, this isn't very impressive. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't develop technologies like this, but just because it looks "cool" doesn't mean it will be a successful product. We've done some interesting things from a technology demonstration standpoint with the table and wall we have but just about everyone questions how useful it would be in day to day business use.
Read through the link you provided and the company who we have the multi-touch video wall through is Perceptive Pixel. I couldn't recall the name until reading it in your link. I still can't think who makes the touch table though.
We are not taking the product to market, we were the market. I didn't buy the touch table (multi-touch) or the video wall (multi-user, multi-touch). These were products purchased for our use. We have worked with software vendors to enable their applications to work on these devices, basically enabling the multi-touch and multi-user multi-touch to work with the software.
Other post already included links to previous technologies by other vendors so repeating them offers nothing to the discussion. The opinions are just my opinions that can be ignored if you like. The response is adequate for the post it is associated with. If "Arkeologist" has any objections to it, I'll gladly elaborate if needed. As for the empty assertion bit though, the only part that might even be taken as that would have to be the last statement and other post here have already provided links to back it up. I really do like the fact that the operating system can handle input like this rather than rigging up a configuration onto a system that doesn't support a wider range of devices. I just think the coverage is a bit misleading to the typical consumer by making them think that this is a Microsoft invention.
Yea I believe other stories mention that Microsoft has been working on this for 5 years too.
We've had a working product now for over 3 on the multi-touch table so I'm guessing the work on that has been out a bit longer than the 5 Microsoft has been working on it.
Recognizing items you place on the screen is very useful.
Any examples that you can think of? I think I'd rather just have the camera setup to automatically start transferring the photos during idle periods rather than waiting for me to set the camera on the table.
And I'm very sure the data transferred from the item laying on the screen/table top is stored in a directory structure and/or database. You just don't see it.
Yes, I'm sure the files are stored in a directory structure of some sort, but probably not a structure defined by me. I tend to group my photos by year and event if possible to help categorize them. I probably should have a better cataloging system but placing them in a structure that I defined is a simple one that works for me.
Great work Microsoft!
Nice to see this at the OS level for those who desire this interface. I just think that most of the work to bring this technology to light has been copied by Microsoft, not created by them.
I disagree with the statement that the ideas have only been demonstrated too. We have been working with vendors for the last 3+ years on a multi-touch table and about 1.5 years with a multi-user, multi-touch video wall. We use Google Earth, Satellite ToolKit (STK), and a collaboration application (mark up of imagery related data) on both of them. I was very surprised to see Microsoft touting this when we have been working with this technology from multiple vendors now for a while. The only new feature as you mentioned is the wireless transfer of pictures to the device with it recognizing where the device was on the screen, and I'm not sure that it is very useful. When I transfer data, I want to store it in a directory structure or a database system rather than where I set the camera.
An employer can not ask you to do that, and fire you when you refuse.
Employers have a lot of ways to terminate an employee though. A buddy of mine was terminated because he was not "flexible" enough for the team. Odd thing is that his last performance review listed one of his strengths as being "flexible". He was terminated because he disagreed with how the company did their bidding process for a mapping project. He provided time estimates for paper to digital conversion and management cut the time to win the work. Problem is that he'd be blamed later when things weren't being completed on time. All the HR department needed to do was write a reasonable explanation in the employee file and it becomes very difficult to go after the employer.
I certainly don't know this guys complete situation (finances, job industry in his area, family issues, etc...) but I'd contact BSA, start looking for a new employer, and cooperate in the investigation. Between the time of the report to BSA and the time period where the employer could comfortably terminate me, I'm pretty confident I'd have a new job.
I haven't been following this very closely until a bit more recently. As a SunRocket (SunRocket)VoIP customer, I'm beginning to worry a bit too. I was going to recommend moving to their offering but it seems that patent suits are plaguing the VoIP market lately.
On March 14, Web Telephony LLC filed a patent infringement suit against Verizon, AT&T, EarthLink Inc., SunRocket Corp. and Vonage. Web Telephony, based in Illinois, holds and licenses patents governing Web control of telephony services. The company claims the defendants are infringing on two of its patents, issued in 2002 and 2004, respectively.
Aero != Vista but the Microsoft "Wow" marketing campaign certainly highlights it.
Go through the interactive demo for MS Vista "Wow starts now" and click on the "Easier" link (magnifying glass). Funny how the "3D flip" feature is displayed here without any sort of qualification on the product level or hardware level needed to use it. Even automobile advertisements include a note showing that some features are not "base model". While it may be obvious to advanced computer users that these features will require more system resources, the average PC user is not so educated to understand that the low end Dell they bought can't run the "Wow".
The price difference on the Sun equipment between resellers wasn't exceptionally different. If I remember correctly we're talking about an amount less than $200 (might have been even closer). I had no idea who to report the incident to. The CTO was the one that made the request and I had no idea who to talk to above her.
People in government agencies occasionally select vendors on preference over criteria. Some are just a bit more creative about it in writing up the criteria so that only a single vendor can truly meet the criteria.
For example, when I was a contractor to Prince George's County Maryland, I was asked to get quotes for the purchase of a Sun server and RAID. I had to provide at least three price quotes to the purchasing department. The CTO for the county (at the time...think she's in Jacksonville Florida now...unless of course she was removed from there) basically told me to ensure that Timebridge Technologies (reseller of Sun equipment) was the lowest price. I had to exclude two other companies prices when I submitted the purchase request. Granted that this isn't a major purchase like in the article but it can happen pretty easily. Oh, another interesting decision that was made before I worked at the county was the selection of their e911 system from Tiburon. The system they provided wasn't really adequately scaled for the county's size but I heard they were selected because of close ties between some of the county emergency management and the company's management.
I think you are looking at two very different problems here. The cost of using the network is different from the technology to connect to a network. Presumably Vonage has to pay a connection fee for the physical connection to phone networks and this should cover usage cost of the network. As for connecting to the network, there are probably a fairly limited number of ways to interface with the phone network and anyone looking to connect would reach a similar configuration. For the Universal Service Fund, why not include that fee in the cost of the network usage fees for connecting to the phone network?
When you installed MS Windows Vista, did the installation process recommend not using Aero or does it enable it by default? If it doesn't recommend whether or not to run Aero based on the graphics card then most users with older (not top of the line at the time) cards will probably be disappointed. Hasn't the "Wow" marketing been pushing the Aero interface as a primary reason to upgrade?
Personally, I'm OK sticking with MS Windows XP at home. I haven't heard any near term plans to roll out Vista where I work (100K+ employees). The few lab systems we had with MS Windows XP 64 bit didn't even last long due to vendor support issues. I would be quite surprised to see MS Windows Vista rolling out anytime before two years from now.
I tested on a Solaris 9 and 10 system without luck as long as root can only login on the console. I temporarily changed to allow root remote login and it did work for Solaris 10. I didn't test Solaris 9 but presumably it would work too. Hopefully most admins have disabled telnet or at least lock root to a console login only.
Check out ESRI's desktop products for support on Microsoft Vista. Apple is by no means the only company to not immediately support Microsoft's latest OS. Yes, releases have been available but that doesn't require the company to have an update immediately available. How long have some of the Apple products been out?
Oh, I looked at some of the IBM Tivoli documents as well and when selecting the OS in the support section, they haven't updated to include MS Windows Vista yet. I also saw the following question in one of the Tivoli support questions:
Problem
Several customers have asked if TBSM has plans to support the soon to be released Vista Operating System.
Solution
Due to the upcoming TBSM 4.1 release, there are currently no plans for TBSM 3.1 to support/run on the Microsoft Vista O/S.
From the BEA WebLogic site, neither their current release (9.2) or their preview release (10) are listed as supporting Vista. They only cover XP.
From a quick check of the Oracle website, they didn't have support at Vista release as well. 32 bit support 1st quarter 2007, 64 bit sometime in the second half.
Why bash Apple when they are not the only company that hasn't jumped at Microsoft's latest creation.
Does Apple apologise to their customers for not having a Vista version of their software yet? No, they take jabs at Microsoft for breaking compatibility, instead.
So did Microsoft Office run immediately on each Mac OS release or is there some amount of lag between support when the OS isn't the main platform for your application? Would listing the reasons your application won't run on a new platform be considered a "jab" or is Apple simply indicating the problems an existing version of their software will face on the new OS?
There are other options that don't involve bolting a dish to the building. A 5 gallon bucket with concrete is possible or maybe the apartments are really duplexes with some amount of yard space (which is my situation) where a post can be put into the ground (as one of my neighbors has done). Personally, I have Verizon FiOS (broadband and TV) after leaving Comcast but that is a relatively recent alternative to the Comcast strangle hold on the county I'm in.
Isn't the point of the article though that information funded publicly is public? HIPAA and IRB could arguably be restrictions to portions of the data but one could argue that if that information is publicly funded then it too should be open. You are terming the data as private but it could still be publicly funded and therefore could be released under the premise that all publicly funded data is public. HIPAA and IRB (sorry...not familiar with IRB) are essentially rules for protecting data but it isn't that different than arbitrary rules to keep data from being disclosed.
Other choices do exist though, even if not as dominant as Microsoft. A typical desktop setup (basic office applications, browser, etc...) can be replaced with a less popular alternative. The difficult task will be desktops and servers where applications only exist on the MS platform (which as you indicated can take a couple years). The fallout from Microsoft being banned from government contracts would be that other software vendors would start porting their applications to non-Microsoft operating systems. Maybe provisions within the government ban could be to allow for exceptions where a vendor of an application won't port to alternate operating systems or an alternate product for another operating system does not exist. I would just worry that all system administrators would start submitting exceptions for all their systems they manage.
Slashdot Mirror
As a Geography student back in 1990, I can tell you that we were taught the concept patented here minus the web interface. The idea of locating a point based on an address is geocoding. You can then generate a buffer around that point to select other spatial features (in this case businesses). I don't see anything unique or new here except that he slapped on a web front end, and plenty of other companies were doing similar things with their applications.
I have a post further up describing how this concept was described in my Geographic Information System (GIS) classes back in 1990. Location based search is a simple buffer around a point to select other geospatial features (in this case businesses). The initial point is obtained by doing a geocode against vector line file containing street address information and finding the coordinate point. I'm sure there are plenty of geography text books describing algorithms on how to do this. The only thing unique to this patent is that they planned to slap a web page on the front end. I hardly think that counts as obvious though as many people and companies were doing similar steps to web enable their applications.
I seem to recall learning about geocoding (locating a point on the ground by looking up an address) and site location based on spatial criteria when I was in my Geography classes (Geospatial Information systems) at Penn State back in the 1990. The idea of getting a point from an address and selecting other features based on a buffer (spatial shape around the point) isn't all that original. We did exercises to find suitable locations around a point using ESRI's ArcInfo (think it was version 5.x) software. One of the exercises had us locating a site to build a business and we needed to have access to various utilities while avoiding residential areas and schools. I'm sure early GIS textbooks define enough cases of implementing this, just not in a web based input form. I don't think though that web enabling this functionality though qualifies as something patentable.
I may not have stated it clearly enough but my family doesn't spend a lot of time looking through photos. I did state that my brother and I end up burning all the CDs and probably misrepresented the "non-tech" family members as being completely computer illiterate but most do use computers, know how to burn CDs, etc.... The "non-tech" members are not tech focused (i.e. horticulturist, plumbers, teachers, sales, etc...) but they do know how to use computers for the most part. I stated that my brother and I get this because we're both in IT positions so we are assigned the task (sort of like most IT people end up the computer support person at family gatherings too). While the table does have some intriguing features, I just don't see that it would change much for family/friend gatherings as for exchanging media. I think it would be interesting for most for the first time or two using it but after that, it is just another gadget that doesn't fill a demand. As for complete non-tech people, they are likely to avoid this sort of device, even if it ultimately helps them. They are the type that avoid technology in general. As for extending this to other file formats (documents, spreadsheets, graphs, etc...), I don't see much here that isn't already addressed in a NetMeeting environment or whatever other collaboration tools a company chooses to use. Unless you are creating a document at a "brain storming" session most documents are generated by a single individual, critiqued by a few peers, and then presented to a group for final review, integration into a larger document, or collaboration. Where an input device like this could have some value is when working with link analysis or relationship analysis applications. I just don't see too many people using tools like that.
How often do you and your friends sit around sharing photos like that? At family gatherings, we'll often exchange CDs with photos or maybe someone will hook up a camera to a laptop to download and burn CDs of the event, but other than that, I don't see that happening too often. Even with the family events though, it generally ends up being my brother and I that prepare the CDs for exchanging with the non-tech family members and I bet they end up in a drawer somewhere instead of being enjoyed. Other than the initial "Wow" factor, this isn't very impressive. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't develop technologies like this, but just because it looks "cool" doesn't mean it will be a successful product. We've done some interesting things from a technology demonstration standpoint with the table and wall we have but just about everyone questions how useful it would be in day to day business use.
Read through the link you provided and the company who we have the multi-touch video wall through is Perceptive Pixel. I couldn't recall the name until reading it in your link. I still can't think who makes the touch table though.
We are not taking the product to market, we were the market. I didn't buy the touch table (multi-touch) or the video wall (multi-user, multi-touch). These were products purchased for our use. We have worked with software vendors to enable their applications to work on these devices, basically enabling the multi-touch and multi-user multi-touch to work with the software.
Other post already included links to previous technologies by other vendors so repeating them offers nothing to the discussion. The opinions are just my opinions that can be ignored if you like. The response is adequate for the post it is associated with. If "Arkeologist" has any objections to it, I'll gladly elaborate if needed. As for the empty assertion bit though, the only part that might even be taken as that would have to be the last statement and other post here have already provided links to back it up. I really do like the fact that the operating system can handle input like this rather than rigging up a configuration onto a system that doesn't support a wider range of devices. I just think the coverage is a bit misleading to the typical consumer by making them think that this is a Microsoft invention.
Yea I believe other stories mention that Microsoft has been working on this for 5 years too.
We've had a working product now for over 3 on the multi-touch table so I'm guessing the work on that has been out a bit longer than the 5 Microsoft has been working on it.
Recognizing items you place on the screen is very useful.
Any examples that you can think of? I think I'd rather just have the camera setup to automatically start transferring the photos during idle periods rather than waiting for me to set the camera on the table.
And I'm very sure the data transferred from the item laying on the screen/table top is stored in a directory structure and/or database. You just don't see it.
Yes, I'm sure the files are stored in a directory structure of some sort, but probably not a structure defined by me. I tend to group my photos by year and event if possible to help categorize them. I probably should have a better cataloging system but placing them in a structure that I defined is a simple one that works for me.
Great work Microsoft!
Nice to see this at the OS level for those who desire this interface. I just think that most of the work to bring this technology to light has been copied by Microsoft, not created by them.
I disagree with the statement that the ideas have only been demonstrated too. We have been working with vendors for the last 3+ years on a multi-touch table and about 1.5 years with a multi-user, multi-touch video wall. We use Google Earth, Satellite ToolKit (STK), and a collaboration application (mark up of imagery related data) on both of them. I was very surprised to see Microsoft touting this when we have been working with this technology from multiple vendors now for a while. The only new feature as you mentioned is the wireless transfer of pictures to the device with it recognizing where the device was on the screen, and I'm not sure that it is very useful. When I transfer data, I want to store it in a directory structure or a database system rather than where I set the camera.
Hadn't heard that before but I've been fortunate to work at companies that were pretty thorough about keeping the systems legal.
An employer can not ask you to do that, and fire you when you refuse.
Employers have a lot of ways to terminate an employee though. A buddy of mine was terminated because he was not "flexible" enough for the team. Odd thing is that his last performance review listed one of his strengths as being "flexible". He was terminated because he disagreed with how the company did their bidding process for a mapping project. He provided time estimates for paper to digital conversion and management cut the time to win the work. Problem is that he'd be blamed later when things weren't being completed on time. All the HR department needed to do was write a reasonable explanation in the employee file and it becomes very difficult to go after the employer.
I certainly don't know this guys complete situation (finances, job industry in his area, family issues, etc...) but I'd contact BSA, start looking for a new employer, and cooperate in the investigation. Between the time of the report to BSA and the time period where the employer could comfortably terminate me, I'm pretty confident I'd have a new job.
Vonage Fraught With Troubles Amid Patent Case Loss
Sorry, I didn't find that text on the page or in the Wow content. Where did you find that exactly?
Aero != Vista but the Microsoft "Wow" marketing campaign certainly highlights it.
Go through the interactive demo for MS Vista "Wow starts now" and click on the "Easier" link (magnifying glass). Funny how the "3D flip" feature is displayed here without any sort of qualification on the product level or hardware level needed to use it. Even automobile advertisements include a note showing that some features are not "base model". While it may be obvious to advanced computer users that these features will require more system resources, the average PC user is not so educated to understand that the low end Dell they bought can't run the "Wow".
The price difference on the Sun equipment between resellers wasn't exceptionally different. If I remember correctly we're talking about an amount less than $200 (might have been even closer). I had no idea who to report the incident to. The CTO was the one that made the request and I had no idea who to talk to above her.
People in government agencies occasionally select vendors on preference over criteria. Some are just a bit more creative about it in writing up the criteria so that only a single vendor can truly meet the criteria. For example, when I was a contractor to Prince George's County Maryland, I was asked to get quotes for the purchase of a Sun server and RAID. I had to provide at least three price quotes to the purchasing department. The CTO for the county (at the time...think she's in Jacksonville Florida now...unless of course she was removed from there) basically told me to ensure that Timebridge Technologies (reseller of Sun equipment) was the lowest price. I had to exclude two other companies prices when I submitted the purchase request. Granted that this isn't a major purchase like in the article but it can happen pretty easily. Oh, another interesting decision that was made before I worked at the county was the selection of their e911 system from Tiburon. The system they provided wasn't really adequately scaled for the county's size but I heard they were selected because of close ties between some of the county emergency management and the company's management.
I think you are looking at two very different problems here. The cost of using the network is different from the technology to connect to a network. Presumably Vonage has to pay a connection fee for the physical connection to phone networks and this should cover usage cost of the network. As for connecting to the network, there are probably a fairly limited number of ways to interface with the phone network and anyone looking to connect would reach a similar configuration. For the Universal Service Fund, why not include that fee in the cost of the network usage fees for connecting to the phone network?
Jim
When you installed MS Windows Vista, did the installation process recommend not using Aero or does it enable it by default? If it doesn't recommend whether or not to run Aero based on the graphics card then most users with older (not top of the line at the time) cards will probably be disappointed. Hasn't the "Wow" marketing been pushing the Aero interface as a primary reason to upgrade?
Personally, I'm OK sticking with MS Windows XP at home. I haven't heard any near term plans to roll out Vista where I work (100K+ employees). The few lab systems we had with MS Windows XP 64 bit didn't even last long due to vendor support issues. I would be quite surprised to see MS Windows Vista rolling out anytime before two years from now.
I tested on a Solaris 9 and 10 system without luck as long as root can only login on the console. I temporarily changed to allow root remote login and it did work for Solaris 10. I didn't test Solaris 9 but presumably it would work too. Hopefully most admins have disabled telnet or at least lock root to a console login only.
Oh, I looked at some of the IBM Tivoli documents as well and when selecting the OS in the support section, they haven't updated to include MS Windows Vista yet. I also saw the following question in one of the Tivoli support questions:
From the BEA WebLogic site, neither their current release (9.2) or their preview release (10) are listed as supporting Vista. They only cover XP.
From a quick check of the Oracle website, they didn't have support at Vista release as well. 32 bit support 1st quarter 2007, 64 bit sometime in the second half.
Why bash Apple when they are not the only company that hasn't jumped at Microsoft's latest creation.
Does Apple apologise to their customers for not having a Vista version of their software yet? No, they take jabs at Microsoft for breaking compatibility, instead.
So did Microsoft Office run immediately on each Mac OS release or is there some amount of lag between support when the OS isn't the main platform for your application? Would listing the reasons your application won't run on a new platform be considered a "jab" or is Apple simply indicating the problems an existing version of their software will face on the new OS?
There are other options that don't involve bolting a dish to the building. A 5 gallon bucket with concrete is possible or maybe the apartments are really duplexes with some amount of yard space (which is my situation) where a post can be put into the ground (as one of my neighbors has done). Personally, I have Verizon FiOS (broadband and TV) after leaving Comcast but that is a relatively recent alternative to the Comcast strangle hold on the county I'm in.
Isn't the point of the article though that information funded publicly is public? HIPAA and IRB could arguably be restrictions to portions of the data but one could argue that if that information is publicly funded then it too should be open. You are terming the data as private but it could still be publicly funded and therefore could be released under the premise that all publicly funded data is public. HIPAA and IRB (sorry...not familiar with IRB) are essentially rules for protecting data but it isn't that different than arbitrary rules to keep data from being disclosed.
Other choices do exist though, even if not as dominant as Microsoft. A typical desktop setup (basic office applications, browser, etc...) can be replaced with a less popular alternative. The difficult task will be desktops and servers where applications only exist on the MS platform (which as you indicated can take a couple years). The fallout from Microsoft being banned from government contracts would be that other software vendors would start porting their applications to non-Microsoft operating systems. Maybe provisions within the government ban could be to allow for exceptions where a vendor of an application won't port to alternate operating systems or an alternate product for another operating system does not exist. I would just worry that all system administrators would start submitting exceptions for all their systems they manage.