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Consumer Vista Upgrades Moving at Snail's Pace
Chester Freeze writes "During the holiday season, many shoppers bought PCs with the promise of quick, free Vista upgrades. The reality has been something else entirely: many Dell and HP customers are being told that they won't receive their copies of Vista before April. 'One source at a major OEM who spoke on condition of anonymity said that the real issue is that OEMs are still not sure which PCs are really ready to support Vista, and which PCs aren't... Customers who qualify for an Express Upgrade also qualify for OEM support for Windows Vista, even if their machines came with Windows XP. The last thing a Dell, Gateway, or HP wants to do is start sending out upgrades to customers who might have video cards that do not have particularly stable drivers yet (or sound cards, or RAID controllers, etc.). This could be a support disaster.'"
The last thing a Dell, Gateway, or HP wants to do is start sending out upgrades to customers who might have video cards that do not have particularly stable drivers yet
They haven't had qualms about that in the past. What's stopping them now?
Wizard Needs Food, Badly
... you give up an OS riddled with security holes, poor interface design, and ridiculous resource requirements for another OS riddled with security holes, poor interface design, and even more ridiculous resource requirements... except it costs a few hundred (potentially) more.
On the other hand, it could be easy to mitigate for Dell..
Refund the money. Now. Be the first to say Vista is crap
and you won't support it until SP1, just like the rest of us.
Or, dive into the steaming shithole. Your choice.
I used up all my good Vista jokes on the last article! :-(
well, they sold it. Sort of comes with the territory. I know if I sold a promise to upgrade and received payment for it, I am pretty sure I am obligated to provide it! Sort by law I believe, although IANAL, so I could be wrong.
Clever or not, I got nothing...
See two articles down:
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"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Didn't MS say openly that every $1 of Vista represents $18 of NEW hardware? I think they did. So it's no surprise that there would be a lag. I'm sure that in by the end of the year, all PC's will be moved to Vista and once MS abandons XP the upgrades will fly off the shelf. I was in Staples today and the price for XP Home upgrades and basic Vista was the same. So if you're smart enough to read the box, why would you buy Vista for an upgrade on a machine that's more than a year old and can't run it?
GF ordered a Gateway laptop a few weeks ago. Wanted XP, but she ordered on Vista's release date, and they said they would only sell Vista. If she decides to keep it, it ships at the end of February.
I don't respond to AC's.
At least for my computer
I was working at an "experimental" call center. Place was called Stream and the client was Dell. The objective was to figure out if the customer had a simple problem or if one that required level 2 support. (Bit more complicated than that, but that's the jest) I was working there between the great Windows 95 to Windows 98 upgrade. It was miserable for ANYONE with one of those damn USR Robotics modems. It got to the point where we would NOT send out a replacement modem unless the customer did a complete reinstall, from scrach, not with the rebuild image. It also didn't help that most of our techs had a 75% turnaround in three months, couldn't speak English well, and that we told the customer we would call them in 48 hours to "help" them though the reinstall. Gezz. Thank god I work on Dell Servers now. Dell afford to piss off their consumer customers, but not their enterprise. PS - I remember the trainer telling me that Dell is for "quality" and would never sell a computer under $1,000. Even when he said that, I laughed. (1998-1999 was when he told us)
I upgraded to vista, but I have to disable my sound card in the device manager before rebooting or Vista will not start up. The sound card driver is provided by MS from Windows Update. Why would they provide a driver that crashes the system, and even alerts you that it is not made for vista?
I wrote about it here, if anyone cares.
I had absolutely no idea Vista was doing so terribly.
Thanks for the news flash.
I upgraded 1 computer in my company (my friend's one, didn't work with XP, hardware problems). After everybody saw it, nobody wants it anymore. Especially after problems with installation of few crucial programs (ie. Acrobat Reader 8, but 7 was fine). And those people use IE and think that Windows is the only operating system.
Plus windows didn't detect 3 different USB memory sticks. They simply didn't work. But USB mouse and keyboard are fine...
I've seen enough. Bells and whistles are not enough for operating system to be successful.
"an experienced, industrious, ambitious, and often, quite often, picturesque liar" - Mark Twain
Yes using Windows is a support disaster
What is the major draw of upgrading to Vista?
okinawa japan
And once he's through with that. He can address those ridiculous resource requirements. I suspect most geek computers exceed those by a mile since they're the only ones who will be buying the OS.
You guys really sucked for forcing people to totally wipe their computers when all you needed to do was uninstall the Winmodem software (I assume that's what these junkers were), delete the USR infs from %systemroot%\inf, reinstall the software, and reboot. Clearly, those INFS were still hanging around.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
You should know...
How about a lawsuit disaster? IIRC it's fraud if you make a material statement that convinces someone to make a purchase ("this machine will run Vista") and that statement is false. Hell, that's not only a lawsuit disaster, it's a criminal activity disaster too!
I am not going to say who I work for, but I will say I am a tier 2 support tech. for one of the largest PC vendors.
Support for Vista is already a disaster. Customer complaints are rampant, mostly with video problems that are directly a result of bad drivers. In the past, at least we had enough knowledge to get our job done. We could have confidence in newer drivers and we could be relatively sure the machines could support Windows XP. Today, Microsoft has changed the game so much that we are fucked. Troubleshooting this system is almost an entirely different game, so we are forced to play wack-a-mole all day. On the bright side, our product lines are getting a decent overhaul with more standardization. In the mean time, you guys are playing a crapshoot, the result of slapping the Vista logo on anything we can to meet our marketing promises.
When Vista becomes dominant in the mainstream, all of you can expect loads of problems unless Microsoft and the hardware vendors straighten things out. Sure, we should have platform standards. We all know Windows sucks largely because of how badly drivers are written, but they are doing it by screwing with us, the hardware vendors. My group knows what the hell we're doing. We would not be as big as we are if we didn't, but Microsoft are making our lives nearly impossible because they do not consider in the least what we need to support our products.
My advice: do not think you can buy either Dell or HP or from any of the other big vendors soon and expect Vista to work entirely as advertised. Wait a year. Stick with XP or buy a Mac.
The slight irony to what you said is that it already had hardware problems. Who's to say if that had an affect on your install of Vista?
Oh, and I don't intend to upgrade till SP1. Guaranteed.
No, a migration from red hat to solaris would be a support disaster.
This is IT people using a little forethought and pacing while rolling out an upgrade.
O NOES DOOM AN GLOOM THERES ANOTHER VERSION OF WINDOWS - MS is GONNA LAP THE OSS COMMUNITY ONCE AGAIN
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I bought a Toshiba A100-TA9 laptop, with the promise of a free upgrade. When I go to the upgrade site, after I select the country (Canada), I am presented with blank drop-down boxes to select the current version I have. I assume this is due to multiple language versions (English and French) in Canada. Email to support is entirely unhelpful.
At the beginning of January, the form was working, but the server would time out at the very end.
parents basement is such a cliche
I'm not running an apple ; mostly because I have a pc right here in front of me so why pay more money. But is there any reason now NOT to run an apple? Microsoft would have done better to not release vista ; they're ensuring people hate them and try the competition.
If I were a shareholder, i would sell sell sell.
I think it's a safe bet to say every shareholder should short-sell before every major release of windows. They do this every single time. Hype it up, stock goes up, release it, disappointing everyone, stock goes down, holding pattern, start all over again.
---
SELL SELL SELL! | Sometimes I'm bored
Ace
It comes down to marketshare. Microsoft KNOWS they have the market share, and are FORCING users to seek their new Windows ME 2007 (aka Vista)...I'm not biting this time. And I will use my last professional dying breath to tell everyone to stay away.
I keep telling customers and clients to stay away from Microsoft. Their response is "What else is there?"
I spout off about 4 or 5 good, stable, and secure systems, including Apple. They tell me they are not graphic designers. I then tell them that I can't help them unless they think outside the MS box.
I am treating Vista like a plague. And everyone that has a lick of technological expertise should be on that bandwagon.
Brainwashed is EXACTLY what they are.
Time for Linux to step up to the plate. There is such a NEED for a "Super Wine" project to take a big bite out of Microsoft's ass.
I've been trying to get ahold of the upgrade for my copy of XP Pro I got when piecing together a system for myself. Not that I plan on installing it in the next year, I just don't want to have to pay for it if I do have to test or use software with Vista. The upgrade offer ends in March, I believe, so I'd like to get the disk... but it's been a MAJOR pain working through the third party that Microsoft has been using to get the Vista upgrades.
p x
Quick info on sites and phone numbers to use:
https://upgradeweb.moduslink.com/vista/default.as
This is the rather buggy ASP website that is used to request an update.
I had to contact Newegg for a coupon code to use for the upgrade, but had ASP errors on trying to use the page, so I had to call this number several times:
1-800-817-5602
The folks there are nice, but a mixed bag - they're throwing Microsoft/Moduslink employees there at a rapid pace, with little training. When I asked for an upgrade to a higher level of support, they had no one to send me to - but they were rather cool and honest about the situation despite the confusion.
At the end (thus far), I'll have to send a printed copy of my Newegg reciept to an address to get my upgrade. Don't know what kind of recourse I'd have if they just denied my upgrade request... the whole process has really been more painful than I expected, even with Microsoft support, even with fairly friendly folks to help me through it.
Ryan Fenton
The upgrades might be going at snails pace but every new pc being shipped is shipping with vista. It wont be long before there are more installations of Vista than Firefox.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I submitted for an upgrade waited weeks and weeks, and then sent an e-mail to the support email asking why I had not received it, and if I had somehow mad an error in the documentation and such that I had sent.
I got a reply that said "Thank you for submitting to customer service, your upgrade order has been cancelled per your request so that you can re-submit with the correct information."
So instead of verifying my order, they canceled it, and the page to do submissions are gone, and besides that the documentation said "no copies of this documentation will be accepted," but I had already submitted the documentation via physical snail mail. So I have essentially been SCREWED out of 200 bucks worth of software.
To put it mildly, I will never purchase Windows Vista, and I am sure the Pirate bay can help me get the software I was promised. I have never before had a request for information turn into such a fraudulent cancellation before, and since I already paid for it, I am not feeling under any obligation to purchase it again.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
"Bells and whistles are not enough for operating system to be successful."
Apparently Apple would beg to differ >.>;
What were your acrobat 8 problems? I am going to be running Vista Business on a work computer (At least I will be as soon as dell sends the disk.) to test all our software and many of our internal docs are in .pdf format (don't ask, not my choice).
Of course some people are having compatibility problems with their upgrades. This is no major surprise. Speaking as one who works in a large NIX shop (university lab), I must say that we've been evaluating Vista and I kindof like it. I still have a Mac and a Linux box on my desk, but I'm expecting us to support Vista by early '08. Also, I will say there is real pent up demand for upgrading both Windows and Office here in our shop. Windows users here are primarily fiscal admins, and I've had several ask me about supporting the Vista and Office 08. All the Mac users (me included) are looking forward to an Intel build for the next Office.
Vista may be having a slow start, but I think that within a year or so it will be a big winner. I like it (and I haven't had much good to say about Win since forever).
Please, lord, let it be this time... raise thy noodly appendage and smite they foes!
Everything I needed to know about life, I learnt from Blake's Seven
Welcome to the world of big name pc manufacturer technical support.
Trading the devil you know for the devil you don't isn't that great of an "upgrade".
Some people will argue they like the devil they have...
Personally Microsoft hasn't showed me a single reason to upgrade beyond a pretty GUI... and there are projects out there to make the devil I've got look like the devil they want me to buy... besides, the "upgrade" package is 1/2 the price of an e-machine... give me a reason not to save twice as much and buy that, move my license to my good PC and install Linux on the e-machine...
C'mon... XP is the spawn of satan but it's the nicer brother we all know instead of the pretty-boy brother we don't.
They denied my upgrade request when I sent them an information request via their "contact us" link at the bottom so that I could find out if something wrong happened or when I would be getting the upgrade.
Contacting their support, which says it will reply within 1 business day, took 25 days before my first response.
So Enjoy getting screwed.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
Joe Sixpack doesn't upgrade his operating system. Joe Sixpack doesn't know what an operating system is. Joe Sixpack will move to Vista when he buys his next PC with Vista preinstalled. This really should come as no surprise.
Windows XP Home Edition offered the stability and other improvements of Windows 2000 rolled into a consumer oriented OS. Compared to Windows 98 and (shudder) ME it was a huge improvement for consumers so it's no wonder more people wanted to upgrade to XP. What does Vista offer? A series of confusing versions to choose from, required hardware upgrades for most, software compatibility issues for many, annoying as all hell UAC prompts, Windows Software Protection Platform that can completely lock down your system if it thinks your running a pirated copy of Vista and the list goes on.
I can't think of one reason I should upgrade to Windows Vista. In fact, XP is the last version of a Microsoft OS that I will run on any PC I own. I've switched to a Mac and I couldn't be happier. I've got Boot Camp installed to play the occasional game but I find I'm spending less and less time gaming so I suspect by the time games appear that are Vista only it will no longer matter.
The people with a 4 year old machine with those specs are in the upper 1% of PC owners. I know of no one with a one+ year old machine who isn't a high end gamer or code developer who already has 1GB or more on their machine. And you answered your own point vis a vis the video card. If that's the target for Vista upgrades then it's going to be a cold cold winter in Redmond this year. You'd be amazed I think at how few people will chuck $180 for a new video adapter just to run an OS for no other clear reason. You have got be subsidized by someone else if that's how you think.
Personally, I can't even manage to get the stupid upgrade program to acknowledge they received the copy of my receipt. I even have a fax confirmation sheet I've sent them twice.
I think more people took advantage of the program then they where expecting.
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Have fun with that. So far fax and email have led to nothing, they still can't confirm they've received the damned receipt.
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
With all of the logistical/upgrade/support problems in this release, Microsoft should change the Vista's slogran from "Wow!" to "Doh!"
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are... it is our choices.
There's nothing to refund.
I, for one, welcome our new Vista-incompatible overlords...
I think you point out why Dell, etc, are being pretty smart in rolling this out more slowly. In addition to the obvious driver instability, etc, this really comes down to having enough support resources. If you sent it all out at once you're call centers would collapse under the weight of it. If you send it out piece meal then you can spread the increased demand out over a longer period and thus end up providing a better experience.
Basically the question is: what pisses off a customer more, having to wait a couple months to get their upgrade or getting their upgrade and then spending days trying to wrestle with tech support because they are overwhelmed.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
For thinking about going with another crippled product from Microsoft. I hope people are starting to wake up and realize there is NO advantage to upgrading to Vista. The Windows OS is dead, its going no where but down hill. Nothing but DRM roadblocks and headaches, viruses, spyware, defragging, etc.
An instant +5 Interesting post template. Who knew...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Yeah, gotta love being able to just make up delivery times with no consequences.
Quote from an email 4 days ago:
"The Upgrade Software should begin shipping late January 2007. You will receive your Vista/Office software within 4-6 weeks from release date."
From the upgrade site today:
"Order Status : Order awaiting shipment
Shipping Date : TBD. Check back in 2-3 weeks for more information"
Yeah fuck you HP, lying through your teeth to me...
Fuck this Windoze shit.
The best part was I was not even entitled to the $150 discount since it was offered by Microsoft and expired a few days before I purchsed my laptop from Amazon. But Amazon "graciously extended" the offer to all folks who purchased any machine during that month at their expense (or that is what they imply).
From qdirect:
...
Express Upgrade Program for Microsoft® Windows® Vista
Terms and Conditions:
5. The terms of this upgrade offer may be changed at any time without notice, including, without limitation, the expiration date.
6. The product will ship within approximately 4- 6 weeks from the later of either the date of order or from the date the applicable language version has been released in the US. This offer is subject to product availability and product supplies.
What the flying fuck is this bullshit?!?! You get your free upgrade unless we change our mind? Screw that. I relied on the OEM manufacturer's promise that I would get an upgrade to Vista, and no matter how much it sucks, I want to get my money's worth. Who wants to sue?
Upgrade...
You keep using that word. I do not think that means what you think it means.
Question everything
Yea, I fully admit we did. The main problem was that none of our "techs" were trained. Also was bad management.
At Stream, we were paid BY THE CALL. It was more cost effective to tell the customer to reinstall, and then call back than to spend 15-20 mins to remove the inf drivers manually. All the while the management pushing for us to have a 15 minute call time. Sure, I might have the skills to bring back a system after getting corrupted drivers and being malware infested, but trying to tell a customer how to do it? Or better yet, teaching a tech who English is a second language and doesn't even own a computer to help a customer on this issue? Reinstall is far much simpler.
I really think this is what makes tech support so bad. Not only do you have to know how to do the job, you also have to act as a teacher. Atleast I got a free Windows 98 OEM disk during my 6 month jaunt there.
But it's so, like WOW, and the scrolley desktop too, totally wow and completely different from the other scrolley 3d desktops in Suns Java desktop.
.NET run time installed already, no need to go downloading another 80GB .NEt install so I can run, erm, Nasa world map thingy. The power of .NET is just so thrusting, wow, I'm totally jizzing in my Zune right now.
And the features, IT PROTECTS MY DIGITAL CONTENT! Wow, it stops thieves stealing my content as it goes from my computer to my video display, Wow, totally Wow.
Wow, it has desktop search, right there, built in, no need to download something or anything, WOW!
And the 5th best anti-virus, there in the package, WOW!
It even has
And I am as guilty as anyone. As a Mac User, I have not written ONE LINE of Mac Code. I have REAL Basic on my machine, but have I used it? No...
We as a developer community need to do one of three things:
most people are twats like this when it comes to support. My hard drive is dying on a toshiba laptop I have that is still in warenty and they are trying to force me to re-install windows. I don't even use windows! but when I did go on it (Its still on a partition of that drive) the problem was there too, and when accessing the HD through a live CD I have the same problem... so obviously nothing to do with the OS. But thats not enough to tell support people. I dispair.
I pride myself on keeping old machines happily doing the day-to-day work of my business. My OS choices;
Linux (Debian)
MacOS-X
Windows 2000
And I see zero reason to upgrade.
Dog is my co-pilot.
But Apple computers wasn't successful. Apple, Inc. the ipod/itunes company is.
All the Realtors I know (except my wife) use Windows because there is always one web-based thing they use or some Program they bought that NEEDS ActiveX or IE to function at all. I can work around it, but they can't. A computer is just a tool for them.
Another client wants a security webcam up on his website, but the software that runs the security system needs ActiveX.
Other than that, there is no reason for him to use Windows.
But if he can't view his Securitycam thingie on the Intarweb, he'll stick with Windows forever.
None of these people have a good reason to go out and upgrade to VISTA, but when their current computer goes kaput, they will be trotting out to Best Buy to get the cheapest piece of junk they can find to replace it. I don't know when OEMs will stop shipping new computers with XP on them though.
Eventually most all of them WILL be using VISTA, like it or not.
I like microcars
My $40 GeForce 6200 runs Aero just fine.
Lots of people will keep their hardware and not switch to Vista. Lots of people will get new hardware with Vista. And a fair number of Windows users will say "screw this" and buy a Mac. Looks like an excellent year for Apple and Dell.
What's vista worth, if you are using your router with the default login. Any script kiddie can now do some drive-by pharming and redirect your bank account.
Who am I kidding? I can just post old, clichéd jokes instead. :-)
No one will be the wiser!
Post bad DOS^WVista jokes to Slashdot?
[ Abort ] [ Retry ] [ Fail ]
*click*
Get native OpenGL support 3d desktop with Beryl:
r )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_(window_manage
Has very little impact on system performance if you
have a mediocre video card that supports open GL.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
there's no reason to get vista so fast yet. XP is still function and it cost a fortune to upgrade just for a little better lookat most. I'll stick w/ my window blind.
Huh? MS has already released recommended specs.
It ran quite well on my old P4 2.6 GHz, 1 GB RAM and Geforce 6600 GT...
That is, far below what e.g. Dell has sold the past few years.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Well, I do. Can't you smell it? It must be my 6th or perhaps even 7th sense.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
more Vista users than there are Linsux/Open Sores users... more idiots than geniuses, so I'm not exactly sure what you think you're proving there...
Correlation, my good man, correlation!
They are doing everyone a big favor. Vista's upgrade process is absolutely not robust enough yet for the average consumer.
...could mean, oh, your audio hardware is having some issue, or it could just mean you have 4GB of RAM (See KB929777), or any number of other things.
Last weekend, I spent two days upgrading to Vista on a machine that was just purchased in October. I did succeed in the end, but it was not without a considerable amount of hair-pulling.
The essential problem is that if ANYTHING goes wrong, the upgrade suddenly becomes a non-consumer-friendly train wreck. The most painful thing is that there are any number of small hardware problems that can cause the boot to blue screen. If the boot blue screens, Vista tries to boot again. That is, you end up in a boot-loop. The blue screen does not stay up long enough to read it. So, anyone debugging the problem needs to learn about the F8 menu, where they can request that the machine not reboot on boot failure. THIS time. Then, you have to look at the blue screen, and hope that it's something that'll give you SOME clue as to what's wrong. After all...
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
Vista WILL NOT FINISH INSTALLING until you have done at least one clean non-Safe-Mode boot. However, it WILL NOT allow you to use Safe Mode until it has finished installing. So, there is no way to remedy any problems (short of yanking hardware out of your machine) unless you boot off of the install DVD, and go into the command line tool there. However, you cannot get to the command line tool directly. You have to ask for it to do a Repair first. However, Repair hangs on some machines. (Man, I wish I was making this up.) So, you may have to cancel out of Repair, just to get to the command line.
None of the three distinct problems that were preventing my upgrade were detected at all by the tool that was supposed to determine if my machine was Vista compatible. Not a single one of them. So, I had no idea where to start looking for problems.
Okay, now imagine your typical first-level tech trying to guide a consumer through this swamp.
They can't. This is not something that can be realistically handled by first-level customer support. Moreover, the "just do a clean install" line that Microsoft has been feeding to anyone who contacts tech support REALLY isn't going to fly with people who were told their machines would be ready for a Vista upgrade when it became available. They have already been using their machines, and they expect a smooth upgrade -- not a clean install.
These companies have a vested interest in making sure that the Vista upgrade process is not going to blow up in the faces of their customers. Because their equipment is very consistent, they face a situation where it's either going to be a disaster for everyone, or it's going to run smoothly for almost everyone. The stakes are very high for them to get this one right. The cost of botching it up will be phenomenal. So, give them some time. Let them get this one right. Or, their poor customers are going to find yourself with your machine torn apart all over the floor, gnashing and wailing, like I was. Upgrades should never be this hard.
Ah, I see now what Microsoft meant when they said that Vista would create over 100,000 new jobs in the US and in Europe: Support desk jobs for the resellers.
Who would want such a thing?
Well you've just illustrated why I keep all of my hard drives. Want to try a new OS? Yank the old ones (or disconnect them) and put in the spare. After that either the install works or it doesn't. If it does then I dual-boot from either the new (Vista) or the old (XP). Benefits of the new, while I still have my safety net. It's the same thing I did when I first tried Linux.
"UI prettiness"
a /
Lots of 3rd party companies like Stardock already do this.
"indexed searching"
Use google Desktop search or Windows Desktop Search
"an attempt at proper admin"
That's been available forever on 2k/XP. Guess what? Vendors are STILL forcing you to run things a admin. I guess kudos to MS for finally not giving root access to every user *sigh*.
"quick access mini-apps"
Google desktop search, whatever-task-toolbar from whoever. Been there done that.
"more included applications"
All of the big apps like WMP 11, IE7, etc are available for XP. There are free alternatives for many of the other things. Picasa owns Windows Photo Gallery. The other apps fall into the "nice to have something" category vs being legitimate Ilife competitors.
"parental controls"
Good idea, we'll see how well vendors support it.
"speech recognition"
Wider adoption is IMHO a good thing but A) 99% of people have zero interest in it, B) the other 1% saw that disasterous demonstration of Vista's speech recognition and assume it sucks and will never use it.
"better encryption integration/ease of use"
Worthless for the general public because only certain high-end versions of Vista come with it. Ease of use is like learning a new OS. Microsoft has gone to great lengths to complicate and obfuscate things that you could do in two clicks on XP. Shifting things around for the hell of it does not = making it easier. Network Center? Need I say more?
Overall as I'll repeat again, as Vista stands right now it remains for now an expensive solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Benchmarks show it runs anywhere from 5-50% slower than XP for general tasks http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vist
and Nvidia users are simply screwed when it comes to Vista. In short the performance is just terrible considering the insane processing power we have available these days, Oh and if you have anything more than 512MB of ram DON'T use readyboost you'll just slow your PC down.
Post SP1 Vista will finally be an OS worth upgrading to, but that's still quite a way off and consumers are IMHO much better off sticking with XP. By then Vienna will be out so why bother?
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
I don't know for certain about HP or Toshiba or the others, but Dell EXCPLICITLY states on their web site that DVD's for the upgrade will go out 4-8 weeks after Vista is available. Read the god damned fine print.
Jherico
What can the average user can do to ensure his security? "Nothing, you're screwed"
Actually I haven't figured out ONE good reason to go with Vista regardless of what hardware you have. Could someone clue me in?
If there was a big poisonous black cloud on the horizon it would be good news if you learned that it was delayed until April. I can't figure out how this is any different. Signed - a satisfied XP user who will be migrating to Apple and/or Linux.
-- QED
Upgrade Versions of Vista are Poison.
Of course, this has always been true of Windows Upgrade versions, but not to the extent of Vista.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Please, tell me how Vista is good?!? I mean, (aside from the networking stack), all you get is XP+DRM+bugfixes and a new UI (although that is still clumsy).
Oh, and did I mention that driver revocation was put into effect? So when Microsoft finds out your brand-new $400 24-inch LCD is "leaking" precious content, goodbye $400 monitor!! Plus, you're only allowed one major hardware switch...
OK, so put in perspective for a university, assume you upgrade your hardware every five years and have a standard monitor, graphics card, etc. Suddenly, some hacker somewhere breaks into that graphics card somewhere in the world and Microsoft finds out about it. Poof! All of your graphics cards are rendered entirely useless, because Microsoft can't have them leaking the precious "premium content," even if millions of people will no longer have functional cards.
The driver revocation was why I switched to Linux (and have never regretted it).
And finally, even if you get a VERY good academic price (let's say something entirely absurd, like $20/copy), you are still spending $20x120=$2400 on the OS alone for upgrades (not to mention the new hardware).
"All you need is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." -- Mark Twain
Without complaints they can't get these guys who run these 'upgrade' scams and 'rebate' scams on people. Document everything exactly and when you get the run around, the rebate in a name that's a bad variation of your name, a 'cancelled' upgrade based on alleged imput from you - you can complain to your state attorney general. These guys love cases like that, it makes them famous and gets the crooked bastards. Remember, the scam artists like Microsoft are counting on you just taking it in and not doing anything about it.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
I think it's safe to say that while OSX is not going to be the dominant os any time soon apple still sells enough desktops to be considered a success.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
I think you have that backwards. Even Microsoft admits that XP security is second rate compared to Vista and MacOS.
Vista is *exactly* what corporate IT needs rather than XP which was never really appropriate for corporate use ever.
XP is better in the home environments where games still require it and are proving to be pretty unstable on Vista.
If it's an open source one I'll help you debug it. I've had similar experiences with Linux drivers in the past; but those all seem to be working at this point. If it's just a binary driver, I guess your SOL if you go with a OS vendor crappy enough to supply a driver that crashes your systems.
XP security is a joke and even Microsoft now admits it. While Vista isn't perfect, it's come a long way from the fiasco they had before.
If you do any e-commerce at all, you want either Vista or OSX or Linux.
I just bought a laptop from Dell last night. I WISH they offered XP, because they only had Vista as an operating system choice. I would have rather taken no operating system and installed my own. Me, like many customers who refuse to upgrade, find their hardware incompatible with Vista (Dell no longer offered the integrated Audigy card I wanted and I was forced to settle with generic integrated sound because of compatibility issues with the audigy's drivers.)
In general you don't buy software for linux.
So of course you won't find software for linux on amazon. You'll find it on sourceforge or using apt-get. Even looking in the CNR warehouse, most of the programs are free (most of them are the standard open source projects).
Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
Based on your comment, I truly can't tell if it's just satire, or you're being bloody serious!
.Net. I've heard numerous bad things about these apps running on Vista too. Why? I don't know; I'm not a programmer. I'm only telling you based on personal experience with my clients.
Right now, Vista is very bad for the corporate world being they often run custom web applications. Some of these applications haven't been updated yet to handle IE7. Then, you have applications that run on
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Vista will never be the trusted successor to XP, but right now, it's too soon to be recommending this new OS.
Life is not for the lazy.
All these people saying Dell or whoever is not acknowledging their upgrade. Please explain to me why you're not, every single one of you, going to small claims court to get your $200 back? Or whatever the retail price of whatever version of Vista you got.
One of the other things that makes tech support bad is that you're constantly understaffed, yet your Boss may be the type to want you to "keep good relations."
I have had stints with my company doing PC support - and even though I can still do it, I don't want anything to do with it. Why? Well, the end users are nice enough, but when you have 2 people to 1000, it kinda sucks when things start piling on.... I'm talking repairs, deployment, fixes AND moves, adds, changes (network and phone) as well.
That's why PC support sucks. They'll cut it down just to the point that someone will quit, and then trim no further. All the while the users are complaining that they didn't get their equipment in a reasonable time etc - but they won't pony up the $$ for another tech because "we're incompetent (sp?)" I never want another piece of doing computer tech work.
Karnal
Posting as Anonymous -- because I cannot remember my login.
With XP I remember hearing about a hack that made XP Home act like XP Pro. I keep wondering once XP is not readily available (stick with it for now...) would it be possible to buy on Vista Home Basic Upgrade at between $89-99 -- do the double install trick to get a full/clean install and then activate that and use hacks or add-ons to get the Premium or Ultimate functionality without having to allow MS to rape your wallet? Or has MS already said somewhere that they are going to disallow the double install trick at some point? If what I suggest works at least MS would not get as much money from everybody and you would still get some updates because it would be a Home Basic version that you paid for...
You knew what, that anyone involved in open-sores can't even program their way out of a proverbial paper bag? Funny thing is there are more problems with open-sores shit compared to closed-source yet you fucktards compare firefux to Vista. Vista is an operating system. But since you fucktards want to compare the two, then it is funny that the GIMP has been in beta status longer than XP has been out, yet Paint Shop Pro 7 has features that has been missing in the Gimp. Oh wait, you bitches will blame Bill Gates and Microsoft somehow. Face it open-sores just has a shitty track record.
The only reason why linsux is 'secure' is because you script-kiddies don't want your improperly written OS to look bad.
OEMs stopped shipping new computers with XP a few days before Vista was released. There were a few days when big-box computer stores had no MS computers on the shelves because Vista would be released later that week!
You cannot get OEM XP-computers from large stores now--just Vista, OSX, or FreeDOS.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
If HaHa is a tag for every story on Microsoft, then what is the tag for a story on Linux?
It is NeenerNeener.
What bothers me is the lack of drivers and support for older hardware. The OS is supposed to support the hardware, not the other way around. Maybe Vista will be ready for desktop use in two or three years, but for now, I'll pass.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
"(Dell no longer offered the integrated Audigy card I wanted and I was forced to settle with generic integrated sound because of compatibility issues with the audigy's drivers.)"
Dell's "integrated Audigy card" is actually the integrated SigmaTel card you ended up with, plus EAX software from Creative. In reality the SigmaTel is the best integrated sound card I've ever used (and I'm a musician doing audio engineer work on the side), easily rivaling the PCMCIA Audigy 2ZS I was using on my last laptop. If you don't need the useless echo and reverb effects EAX brings, you won't miss not having an "Audigy" in your laptop.
Good thing I bought mine at BestBuy, GeekSquad will fix it!!
I think maybe you are being a little alarmist. Reading through all the documentation on DRM in vista, they are not about to outright block your $400 LCD panel from functioning, as you hinted, merely degrade the quality of the video only while playing high definition content, and even then only if certain conditions are present. Driver revocation one would assume, would only be for as long as it takes the drivers to get corrected. Don't get me wrong, it's still a shitty implementation, but not as bad as you make it sound.
Absolutely.
... free upgrade to Vista, why wait. What a mistake.
I bought XP thinking
Modus/Microsoft are a nightmare. I could have bought Vista straight out for the same price and not had the "upgrade an existing system only" bullshit. That's assuming I even end up getting a copy of my Vista upgrade CD some time in April, if it ever does arrive. Modus' web site is an absolute joke, it's down often, and the "check on your order" is stuck in some infinite time warp which never updates, never changes, and gives no actual information whatsoever. JOKE. Absolute joke.
I will NEVER, never ever buy any Microsoft upgrade again. Microsoft can blame Modus all they want, but we know who is responsible for this. They farmed this job out to the lowest bidder, and consumers suffer. When will we learn.
The only way to painlessly run Microsoft products is to pirate them.
Well that's the sad thing. About 98% of people who get Vista will need nothing besides what was already in XP. Yet they'll get Vista anyway - not even because they're sheep and they're told to, but because they were literally forced to. It's a completely virtual market. I don't know why Microsoft don't just release a new OS every year with a new logo, it would be just as effective.
"merely degrade the quality of the video only while playing high definition content"
God forbid I should watch HD content in HD on my HD monitor because Microsoft gets wind of hacked firmware in Romania.
"Baby Monitor" would be a good codename for their next OS, since they missed it this time around. Or perhaps "Leash."
At the Microsoft company store, they have been out of vista ultimate for about week or so. :/ No, I'm not kidding.
--
RandomAndInteresting.com - defending the world from stupidity since 1979
Perhaps this seems pesimistic, but remember that not many companies are willing to pick up three or four-year old drivers and fix them. They prefer to focus on the new stuff. And considering that most of the world does not use top-of-the-line video cards or monitors....
"All you need is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." -- Mark Twain
LOL!
:-D
Last night, after all of these comments, I finally got my confirmation on the order.
Coincidence?
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Something to be wary of with regards to Vista OEM installations is that there are bugs with the way it renames folders and files on network shares. This results in Vista leaving items such as "New Folder" and "New Text Document". Apparently the OEMs are pointing the finger at Microsoft and Microsoft are pointing the finger back at OEMs. There is more info here: http://forums.microsoft.com/TechNet/ShowPost.aspx? PostID=522208&SiteID=17&PageID=1
1. Don't call dell. Use the online chat. It's faster and you don't have to strain with accents that you can't understand.
2. Before you begin the chat pull the Hard drive from the laptop and then run a hard drive diagnostic. Obviously it will fail. You'll have a nice hard drive not found error code to give to the dell tech. That will get you a replacement hard drive shipped. When they ship the drive they will ship the software to reinstall.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
Last time I checked, I couldn't get the thinkvantage network profile utility to even install under vista ("Wrong plaform found") and the changelog indicates that there are no Cisco extensions (LEAP) implemented in the vista versions.
They're close, but lets not say everything is properly supported yet.
There is nothing interesting going on at my blog