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Microsoft's Multitouch Coffee Table Display
longacre writes "Popular Mechanics takes the Microsoft Surface system for a hands-on video test drive. To be announced at today's D5 conference, the coffee-table-esqe device allows manipulation from multiple touch points, while infrared, WiFi and Bluetooth team up to allow wireless transfers between devices placed on top of it, such as cameras and cell phones. Expected to launch before the end of the year in the $5,000-$10,000 range, the devices might not make their way under many Christmas trees, but will find the insides of Starwood hotels, Harrah's casinos and T-Mobile shops."
This is actually quite interesting technology. It has been conceived before - but only that - conceived. This is one time Microsoft gets kudos.
Wow, that's annoying. I wrote a computer display coffee-table into a science-fiction story that I just finished writing, and now everybody's going to think I just steal ideas from reading Slashdot.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Play PacMan?
Three Squirrels
Props to MS for coming up with a more-or-less unprecedented product. ;)
The emacs users will quickly be shaking from key withdrawal, of course.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Tilt the screen at a different angle!
09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63
This is so "Star Trek" to the geek in me. Finally, a way to use the computing processing power available in a method about anyone can use. Now to get it into a package that is thinner and doesn't require the supporting table.
/.
The ease of use that is apparent is key, the idea is there, its the software that makes it all the more so amazing. I cannot wait till this type of interface is the standard
on a side note, why did it take it 930AM EST to get this up on
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The porn industry always finds way to bring the new technology to the masses. While I am at a loss to explain how this will happen, you have to have an imagination to think it will happen.
Instead of setting up in the lobby of the Sheraton hotels, maybe they should make holosuite sort of things.
I would imagine that some sort of tactile feedback would be needed, though.
http://www.yald.com/microsoft-surface-porn
There were some videos a while back of a similar system being demo'd. It showed a system which allowed for multiple simultaneous touches to be detected, so you could actually grab a photograph and resize it by pulling the corners. You could give commands by chording touches on the screen. It looked really interesting, but I can't find it anymore - anybody know where I can find them again?
Tequila - drink of the gods.
Doesn't anybody use a coaster these days?
And when I use a solvent to clean it, will it "melt" what's on the screen?
Snippet... you just run your credit card through a reader built into the table (or, when RFID cards have become the norm, just slap your card on the tabletop) and your new phone is paid for. And the casinos are looking into this to? I guess some black/grey hatters will be heading over to http://www.rfidvirus.org/ in pre-anticipation of those Texas Hold-em games...
Infiltrated dot Net
Must have... assming it is thought out better then the Zune.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Interesting to see briefly a little on what's happened to Jeff Han (formed his own company producing multi touch displays for business and military, including wall sized as demoed in the vid, easy to do as it's a projection display) as well as more footage of Microsoft's new toy.
Is this like what was shown at T.E.D. conference?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JcSu7h-I40
... it was a chair with a screen in it, but every morning when the designers came in for work the chair had been thrown around...
It's reasonable to expect the hardware component to suffer from the usual first-generation problems that microsoft products enjoy. While those will probably get fixed it's still microsoft software running behind the scenes and there's no fix for that.
I'm optimistic that someone will port linux to it.
Brought to you by the people who created such great products as Windows ME, and Windows Vista; we have the most expensive computer you've ever spilled liquid on! Seriously.. by the time this really hits the commercial market (I would say 2 years), the linux version will be better.
1970 called, it wants its four wheel drive PC back.
It is just about nine months since: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65
But like rearing a child, we'll see the person in 5 to seven years... Or, in a month when the iPhone is released.
and then I can pretend I'm in Minority Report all day long.
Summation 2
There wasn't an table with display in Tron or was in others movies?
This thing is just like Dr. Merrick's desk in The Island. When I first saw the film I thought it was a really impressive and practical interface.
Mind you, I think the coffee-table idea is a bit risky - having seen the scratches and spills my young daughter inflicts on our toughtened glass coffee-table...
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
The other week Sony unveiled their thin flexible screen. I'm sure you could combine that with existing multi-touch membrane technology.
Sounds like the Reactable synthesizer. Cool demo video here. The original looks way more fun than checking into a hotel too...
I'll bite. Google or YouTube Jeff Han.
No? Pfft...
Deleted
I find this very interesting from a marketing perspective. They are promoting this as if it was a product, and yet it isn't on sale - and even the implementations they are talking about (T-Mobile, Sheraton Hotels) are really trials with partners that won't be happening until the end of next year.
So what is this all about? The Vista and Office '07 launches haven't gone well from a marketing perspective - there has been a lot of press basically saying that Microsoft is losing its competitive edge. Couple that with the iPhone, and the fact that Apple is almost certainly going to be launching new products with multi-touch capabilities over the next year or so, and I think it is clear what is going on. Microsoft really want to improve their image in relation to Apple - they don't want Apple to be seen as the innovator and them as the company that's lost it.
Notice on the website that they have a section called "origins" giving the history of the technology within Microsoft - I think they are trying to reverse the image that they copy Apple. Now when the touch-screen iMac is launched (or whatever) Microsoft will have done a fairly good job at taking some of the shine off the launch, even though they don't have a consumer product in the area, nor will they have for some years.
Note, I am not saying that Microsoft are not serious about this as a product -- just that this news launch (about a product that doesn't exist) is all about addressing people's perceptions of the company, and trying to piss on Apple's fire a bit.
In the movies, most any movie where people are using some screen only device, it is only to convey the message or action to the audience, not to actually do work. Sure, maybe some interactive advertising expensive display in a place of bussiness, but other than that it can't do anything. How could one possibly convey anything but the most simple, and expected, communications with such a device? Try it yourself, just walk around today pointing at things instead of talking, and see how "easy" that is.
Microsoft has a long history of announcing new technologies long before they really exist in order to prevent a competitor from gaining marketing hype and momentum. This strategy goes right back to the earliest Windows versions -- you can read lots about this from an MS programmer's perspective in Barbarians.
Since Apple is about to announce their "top secret" features in Leopard, it seems obvious it will be this sort of touch screen technology and that Microsoft is trying to steal Apple's thunder by announcing this vaperware.
boxlight
At the time, there were some utilities that could help with housekeeping in the game, but it was really clunky to have a whole computer there behind the DM's screen. Imagine, your character sheet and virtual dice right in front of you; automated tracking for dice rolls, combat and spell recovery; fancy graphics for your map, characters, and monsters; maybe even a soundtrack and audio effects.
And yes, WoW has all the features I just described, and more, but the element of everyone getting together around a table and playing face-to-face cannot be replaced.
Needless to say, I want one of these, especially for when I retire and go back to gaming full-time :-).
I'll run out and buy one just as soon as I finish installing Microsoft Bob.
Apple has been patenting the hell out of the multitouch UI concept, and I can't imagine this is going to slip by Steve Jobs without a fight. Apple purchased FingerWorks and owns most of the concepts shown in that video.
Hidden in the recent demo for the Iphone was a glimpse of Apple's multitouch technology. If you knew where to look, it was hidden in plain site during the demo of the photo album and rolodex functions.
When you place your wi-fi enabled digital camera on the table, for example, Surface 'sees' the camera and does something extraordinary: It pulls your digital pictures and videos out onto the table for you to look at, move, edit or send. Images literally spill out in a pool of color. I'm sure everyone at Starbucks wants to see my 'home movies' of me and my dog. On a more serious note, isn't this a bit fishy? It grabs your stuff without even asking? Isn't that...you know, bad?
Now, excuse me while I try to nudge my mouse with my mouth...
You can't take the sky from me...
This was exciting and appeared to work much better when I saw it for the first time last year.
Check out the Jeff Han video from last year then watch the MS video.. The original is a much smoother interface.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65
Yeah MS added some fluff by making it interact with devices placed on top the the basic idea is not some new "Top Secret" project
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
Actually, the coffee cup manufacturer would write the driver, that's the advantage of using Microsoft!
http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/
YouTube Videos
Original Demo: http://youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc
8 foot Wall: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ysEVYwa-vHM
TED2006 Talk: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5JcSu7h-I40
If you actually want to get some work done, a keyboard is just about the fastest thing there is (assuming that you're a decent typist of course). Voice recognition still doesn't work well enough for most of the stuff I do.
... what a waste of floor space.
Trying to read from a horizontal surface is just another way to get bad posture.
For someone who actually uses a computer as a computer, this new display/input device is going nowhere. As far as using it at home, forget it. A coffee table that I can't pile stuff on
So, you're right, we emacs users would indeed just get frustrated by this gadget.
http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html
You seem to be thinking of Reactable. The main difference is that Reactable uses a camera and fiducial symbols. Reactable is really a great and low-cost system, which works fairly well (just sketching one of the symbols with marker got it recognizable). They've segregated the optical processing and the application layer very well from what I could tell, which should lead to clean and easy apps.
MS appears to be using a combination, as the guy showed some optical symbols on the bottom of objects as well.
Isn't that the magazine that, in the 50's, said we'd all be using flying cars by the turn of the century?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
In Tron, didn't the CEO guy have the display built into his office desk, with a recessed membrane-style keyboard?
Granted it only displayed VT-100, but it was still the first example I remember of a useful PC built into the furniture.
(yes, those old coctail arcade machines were cool (especially tennis) but I don't consider them a "PC")
If Apple can squeeze the same thing into a battery powered iPhone, why can't MS squeeze it into a Zune, instead of bolting a computer and a projector under my coffee table?
This is similar to having a coffee percolator that runs on a lawnmower engine.
I mean, Apple doesn't have nearly the manpower of Microsoft, yet they've got a product coming out next month that delivers this technology and fits it into your pocket. Someone at MS must be saying "Well, we tried, I guess."
that's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft
Its just that MicroSoft could miniturize their iPhone clone as much as Apple could, so they change the name to a "table".
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65
It's all Jeff's work, the zoom, the rotate all the gestures...
His company is here:
http://www.perceptivepixel.com/
Looks like they've simply licensed it and removed all mention of the original designers.
I've been following table top computing for a while. It's capable of some pretty amazing things but it runs out of applications quickly.
You cannot use text on the screen because of perspective issues. Sure you might be able to read upside down text but it gets annoying quickly.
It can only be used by one person at a time. The killer app for this would collaboration and meetings related...stuff. But it becomes nearly impossible to track the actions of different users.
There was an interesting lecture on the University of Washington Computer Science and Engineering series on the Research Channel about the subject with a lecturer from (surprise, surprise) Microsoft Research.
Solomon is spot on:
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I swear I saw a video from the 90's where Sun was saying this was the future of the desktop.
Innovation at Microsoft:
/. I get flaimbait and you mod all of the Linux fanboys up.
(Score:2)
by FredDC (1048502) on Wednesday May 30, @09:41AM (#19320673)
Tilt the screen at a different angle!
Similar tech
(Score:1)
by TequilaMonster (321655) on Wednesday May 30, @09:42AM (#19320697)
(http://www.alanmacdonald.com/index.html)
There were some videos a while back of a similar system being demo'd. It showed a system which allowed for multiple simultaneous touches to be detected, so you could actually grab a photograph and resize it by pulling the corners. You could give commands by chording touches on the screen. It looked really interesting, but I can't find it anymore - anybody know where I can find them again?
Wow...
(Score:1)
by john g the 4th (1040350) on Wednesday May 30, @09:49AM (#19320779)
Brought to you by the people who created such great products as Windows ME, and Windows Vista; we have the most expensive computer you've ever spilled liquid on! Seriously.. by the time this really hits the commercial market (I would say 2 years), the linux version will be better.
Congratulations, Microsoft
(Score:1)
by wumpus188 (657540) on Wednesday May 30, @09:50AM (#19320809)
1970 called, it wants its four wheel drive PC back.
I've seen this before...
(Score:1)
by KevDude (115267) on Wednesday May 30, @09:52AM (#19320845)
(http://www.vnetwork.com/Portal/Members/khill)
Sounds like the Reactable synthesizer [upf.edu]. Cool demo video here [youtube.com]. The original looks way more fun than checking into a hotel too...
vaperware to steal Apple's press
(Score:2)
by boxlight (928484) on Wednesday May 30, @09:57AM (#19320899)
Microsoft has a long history of announcing new technologies long before they really exist in order to prevent a competitor from gaining marketing hype and momentum. This strategy goes right back to the earliest Windows versions -- you can read lots about this from an MS programmer's perspective in Barbarians [amazon.ca].
Since Apple is about to announce their "top secret" features in Leopard, it seems obvious it will be this sort of touch screen technology and that Microsoft is trying to steal Apple's thunder by announcing this vaperware.
boxlight
Wow...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 30, @09:57AM (#19320911)
I'll run out and buy one just as soon as I finish installing Microsoft Bob.
My point proven
Firstly, let me say I think the software demos look fantastic. However...
Is it just me, or does the choice of hardware technologies seem a bit, well, crappy? Back projection - that means the table itself is huge underneath - if you're eating in a restaurant you want a table you can streach your legs under.
And infa-red cameras tracking the movement..? Notice when they do the paint demo - it looks like the system isn't actually very accurate. They do blobby finger painting, but if I was going to buy ones of these I would want something I could draw fine, accurate lines on with a pen. And I'm not convinced of the idea of having to put barcodes on everything so the system can recognise them.
Surely a flat-screen technology (TFT, Plasma, whatever) coupled with one of the newer multi-touch sensitive technologies would be better?
Wireless. Same size as a sofa table. Lame.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
this emerged at least partially out of their previous efforts with "media pcs." On of the obvious (but largely unspoken) problem they ran into there is that the PC with mouse and keyboard is just a shitty way to interact with media. Touchscreens, on the other hand, obviously aren't. So I think that despite the fact that they are initially of course selling this only to businesses, that will be the ultimate placement of this technology. It finally allows people to look at video, music, photos, etc, on a living room computer in a way that doesn't clash immensely with the intended atmosphere of the room. So bravo to Microsoft for making an appealing product, it'll be interesting to see what Apple's response is if this table ultimately becomes successful, as media is one of Apple's important domains. But either way, it's one of the few times MS may not be lying when they say a new paradigm is arriving. Should be fun to watch.
Relax I just want some peanuts.
I bet someone can beat MS at their own game, and do this for 1 grand. I also dare the F/OSS community to create the software for this feat that works with an existing touch interface.
http://www.sonycsl.co.jp/person/rekimoto/as/
I didn't know Microsoft bought SONY.
done.
calling all destroyers
Someone please enlighten me because I am obviously not getting the point. What new capability that was previously nonexistent does this product provide? Additionally, how is this an economically sound product? Will it ever be? "I for one..." will probably not buy this product.
The new MSV alpha
Yes they've added a few bits then pretended to be the inventor.
It's perceptive pixels work.
This is actually quite interesting technology. It has been conceived before - but only that - conceived. This is one time Microsoft gets kudos.
Not quite. Even tho Microsoft was the first to market with something in the $10,000 range for places like Vegas. I wonder what the Blue Screens look like?
More info the MS product here, here and here.
I imagine that Jeff Han's own Fascinating multi-touch system just might not use Windows as a fundamental foundation. Don't forget about the 16 foot long interactive wall So I can imagine several patent fights coming out of this, even though the research lines are likely independent. Microsoft might even get accused of stealing somebody else's research, regardless of the facts.
Of course, this happens a little while after Apple revealed their own multitouch interface. Microsoft must hate that. After all, Microsoft can't get a patent on the use of fingers, even tho they can try.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
actually...
The MS thingy looks like a cross between The MIT's media lab Sensetable configuration and Jeff Hans gesture interaction software. Apart for the table reacting to the wifi products (specificly the camera) I didn't see anything that wasn;t copied from someone else there.
Somewhere right now Jeff Hawkins is pissed. There's stolen thunder, and then there's corporate neutering. Will Jeff's device announcement even make the front page of Slashdot now?
> This is so "Star Trek" to the geek in me. :)
This needs an LCARS gui
What's next, a pointing device that you can slide around and click things with?
Yes, they're working on that. It's going to be called the 'rat'.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
The main difference between this and the traditional touch screens you're used to seeing is the multiple touch resolution. I've read that this uses an array of infrared cameras to do the touch sensing, which if true, is quite innovative. This table can detect AND resolve at least 8 touches, from pictures I've seen.
Many of the interface movements have been shown in the Jeff Han demonstrations as well as the iPhone demos. Maybe, just maybe, that's because they are very natural movements when you have a touchscreen capable of resolving and tracking multiple fingers?
I don't see any indication Jeff Han is involved with this. As far as I know his screen uses a true touch sensing method, nothing with infrared cameras. Also, Microsoft is spinning off a startup to develop this, while Jeff Han has his own company to commercialize his IP.
I'm no Microsoft fan, but here their research labs have gathered some technology that have not been implemented on a consumer device and brought it much closer to the average user. They run 10k right now, mostly sold to casino's and T-mobile, so it's not quite a consumer device yet. However, at 10k it's pretty damn close, that's what the Lisa computer (a precursor to the PC) first sold for.
Any table-top display is not complete unless it runs pac-man, and you can eat pizza off of it. That's the version I want!
Just let me pop in my all-Rush mixtape, and grab my bottle of New Coke...
stuff |
Someone else posted this link AC.
It really shows haw far he's gone with it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ysEVYwa-vHM
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
I don't think anyone (including Microsoft) is saying they invented the technology. That doesn't make the product any less interesting. Sometimes it takes a big company to realize ideas of people who have little chance of bringing the idea to fruition. A table-top computer is hardly a novel idea, but something a lot of people have been waiting for a long time.
And it's built from the same Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Hydrogen that everything else is built from, too! Jeez, can't Microsoft come up with some original atoms to use???
E pluribus unum
I work in the A&E field, and having a drafting board like this (though with a stylus) would be _very_ cool, indeed. Bump up that resolution (150-200dpi, like my laptop) and make it in a 16:10 with 26" or 32" vertical dimension and it would be a lot like drafting on paper. The extra real estate with a 16:9 would allow a real size "sheet" of space with room on the side for toolbars and/or palettes. I drool just thinking about it.
Oh, sure, you'd need an insane adapter to drive it (with about 4800x7680 resolution - QuadHD), but that's just the way things are. Now that I come to think of it, it might be useful for digital photo/image manipulation. At 200dpi, you could work with the images from the newest Hasselblad digitals at 1:1 pixel mapping. And, hey, if you've got $32k to drop on a camera body, you may as well pony up for the post processing, right?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
My neck hurts just thinking about it.
In what little I could see (the video kept borking on me), it's more than just a touch screen with visual effects. It looks like you can place other items on the screen and drag things to them (the PDA, for example). That's pretty keen. Mix this with some of the zoom stuff Jef Raskin was working on and the pinch-and-spread interface for zooming that the iPhone has, and this could be very cool to use.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Ever since I painted my living room, I've been having trouble selecting coordinating furniture to my fire-engine red walls. I'd been searching for a nice coffee table with a bright blue top, but could never seem to find one in just the right shade.
This looks like it just might be suitable -- I hear it's likely to turn a lovely shade of blue on a regular basis!
1. They've announce a product, not shipped it.
2. Apple did the same for their multi-touch device (the iPhone) last year.
3. It's a coffee table because of the way it works. Han's is a thin cheap flat detector and much bigger and flatter!
4. None of those gestures, like the zoom, pan, rotate gesture they're using came from they, they're all copied.
So Microsoft is doing what here? FUD'ing Apple with an unreleased product? Pretending to have invented stuff they've copied? Lying about researching for 5 years to block patents? What?
http://www.perceptivepixel.com/
Many things look quite impressive in the context of a demo. The MIT Media Lab has been pulling off absolutely stunning demos for... is it a decade now? Very few of them have led directly to anything real. There's no way to tell whether this is the sort of thing like Clippy that is an impressive demo but not a useful product. But the comment that "the company's unofficial Surface showman, Jeff Gattis is a clean-cut fellow who is obviously the veteran of a thousand marketing seminars" is not confidence-inspiring. It would be much more impressive if they had demonstrated the product by letting half-a-dozen people, with no training, who had never seen the product before, try to use it.
There are some very obvious practical issues. With a vertically-oriented touchscreen, the issue was what sort of gadget you could use to prop your hands so that your arms wouldn't be trembling an aching in half an hour.
WIth a horizontally-oriented table-sized touch screen, the obvious issue is that if you put it under a thick sheet of Lexan it won't be touch-sensitive any more... and if you don't put it under a thick sheet of Lexan it won't be touch-sensitive for long.
It would be an interesting contest to see whether one of these $10,000 gadgets lasts longer in a typical American home or in a "Starwood hotel, Harrah's casino or T-Mobile shops." I figure a week, tops, before someone spills a cocktail on it or tries to see whether they can operate it with their butt.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
That table would be really interesting if it could recharge devices laid on it, with "wireless power". Using magnetic induction, device batteries would have to include little rotors to "rewind" little charging dynamos pushed by rotating magnetic fields generated by the table. But that setup could banish incompatible, inefficient and schleppy wired power adapters. Devices wouldn't need to include charger HW in the product, so the entire mobile device economy could become more efficient. And portable "universal batteries" could recharge any mobile device, perhaps even allowing idle devices to export unused power to a dying device's battery.
People might check into hotels just to "recharge their batteries", literally, not just a shower and a nap like today. Hourly hotel rates could be a lot less sleazy.
--
make install -not war
As interesting as this development seems, I can't see myself wanting to use a device that requires me to lean over or look down for extended periods of time. The nice thing about current monitor/keyboard or laptop setups is that it allows a user to keep their head facing forward in a natural position and also provides a place to rest the arms that keeps them from tiring out. A vertical version of this unit would help the eyes and neck, but quickly tire the arms.
Without any tactile feedback, it seems like a a user would always have to look down to use it. I could see its place in applications that only involved limited or intermittent interaction, but anything that needed constant attention (e.g. work) seems like it would quickly be a strain.
4Z5TX
I would like to see a pong game on one of these. Or some weird DJ/VJ tools like the ReacTable wich BTW you can DIY.
But I think that the first real killer app to go with it will be a digital roulette.
What are these people doing demoing this product with stupid family pictures BS??
This has the potential to be THE breakthrough for CAD, CAM, 3D and 2D design applications. Imagine using a CAD application with this interface. It'd be the fastest and most intuitive thing ever.
Video compositing? Just drag and drop stuff, manage the effects layers naturally, etc.
What they need to do is find a way to lower the price and start getting some developers to work on creating UI concepts for professional software.
There are some places that do sell touch screens, and similar multi-touch screen technology. You can buy a multi touch screen right now but it won't be the same. Although the technology is quite different than Jeff Han's multi-touch screen, you can buy a similar multi touch screen from many suppliers.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Err...back in the early '80s, when I was a hardcore video game player, we had exactly that: tabletop games with a computer inside & 2 sets of controls. When you played 2-Player games, the screen would switch around to face the other side.
Hmm...I wonder what happens when you put your drink on the MS table?
Anyway, it's nice to see the wheel getting invented...again.
I guess the military could use 5 or 6 of these if you made
them 10 times as big, raised the table height, and added long
sticks to touch the surface and move things around. Otherwise
who uses a coffee table on a regular basis ?
It is so typical of Microsoft to solve a problem that doesn't exist or
would only exist if we were living in the past.
They should stick to their successful approach of following Apple's lead
and forget about introducing new stuff.
Wow this is "new". I have seen students make such systems using Max/MSP with a projector under tables and sensors to know what you're touching.
I have also seen this product show years ago at CEDIA expos.
Yawn!
When me and my friends from college play D&D, we all bring laptops. We frequently use the calculators for keeping track of HP, and our DM uses jpg's as maps, but the most useful function of a computer at a D&D session is to have the books you use often (Player's handbook, any books with spells) running as a pdf. The search feature makes finding out exactly what that little-used spell does in the heat of battle a lot simpler.
The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
go back and re-read what you wrote.
The Coffee table uses infra-red sensors. What happens you place a a cup of hot coffee on the coffee table? what happens when you spill some? Will the coffee flowing over the table set off a touch sensor?
This tech needs to be in a desk not a coffee table.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I wonder how many common words Microsoft have registered or bought as domains recently? They've got live.com, popcorn.whateveritis and now surface.com. It just encourages people.
As for the idea itself it looks great. I hope Microsoft haven't cornered all the rights for it as it should be an open platform (what am I saying, it's Microsoft *slaps head*) and I for one can't wait to play Galaxian on it, even in an ironic way.
Booming sales of laptops have led to a surge in the number of computer users with back and muscle problems, experts have warned.
a lth/healthmain.html?in_article_id=458548&in_page_i d=1774
Girls as young as 12 are being diagnosed with nerve damage caused by slouching over screens, a group of leading chiropractors said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/he
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
And if the coffee cup driver isn't digitally signed by Microsoft, you'll get a warning message every time you set it on the table.
Actually, I'd be pissed if someone set their coffee cup on my $10,000 electronic multi-touch coffee table anyway. I think the warnings should say "Even if this driver is signed by Microsoft...USE A COASTER!!.
Not much of a coffee table if you can't set your coffee cup on it.
How long before there is an open source project like this? Or is there already one? I must admit, I think it is pretty "nifty".
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
"Fluff"? I would say that the physical device interaction is the coolest part of the whole deal.
Oops sorry, I'm not following the Slashdot groupthink. *clears throat* Rah! Rah! Microsoft evil! Microsoft steal idea! Microsoft does no innovation! Rah!~
Seems the obvious thing to do is build it into a drafting table, and let the user adjust the slope of the surface as necessary.
Why bother? I've seen the exact same thing described in the article on You Tube over six months ago. I'm guessing it's the same preexisting product mentioned in the article. It's just another Microsoft "innovation" (aka copy).
As usual, like everything that is MS there's hardly any innovation and originality in this. Except perhaps some new patents and the ability to mass market this product. This technology has been worked on for many many years, most notably by Mitsubishi and a lot of university labs.
It looks like you are trying to make out...
True, but the "fluff" is exactly the point. There are always two parts to a successful project: implementation and presentation. Geeks are going to flip out over the implementation, but if it is going to be presented to the general public, it has to be in a slick package, and it has to have the bells and whistles -- the "fluff" -- that make people go "oooooohhhh". Consider the iPod, which was absolutely nothing new (as witnessed by CmdrTaco's infamous offhand comment). But Apple took an existing technology and wrapped it in a shiny case and interface, and sales exploded.
It is those little stupid things, like the soft glowing ring around a drink set on the table, or the little ripple effect when a finger hits it, or the way the pictures "explode" out of the camera when it is set down, that will make Joe Six-Pack sit up and pull out his wallet.
And honestly, you think having the Surface interact with devices set on it is "fluff"? As I said above, the little graphical flourishes that happen are definitely fluff, but the concept of merely having to set a device down on the table for them to communicate is utterly simple and intuitive. I'd say that's a huge point in Surface's favor.
I know from experience table top bar room games they had a while back.
Spend more than a couple of dollars and you need a day or two ro straighten up.
Got backache -- here swallow this tablet PC.
Old COBOL programmers never die. They just code in C.
... they just can't get any respect. I love to bash MS as much as the next person, but come on, they deserve some props for this effort. Sure they didn't invent the technology but it sure does look like they have put some very nice polish to it. It's so funny how MS gets bashed for doing exactly what Apple gets praised for, taking an existing technology and extending it.
"Some of the worst mistakes in my life have been haircuts." - Jim Morrison
What, you think people don't have cups of hot coffee on their desks?
Absurdity: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce
Too late MS, Apple's already patenting it
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Origami - how quickly that disappeared. And didn't they announce that shortly before Jobs announced the iPhone?
Perhaps Apple fanboys should take this as being a sign that Apple is going to announce something really big at the WWDC in a couple of weeks time!
Point taken, but how many videogames, circa-1980, could automate all the tasks required to run an AD&D campaign (for example, Against the Giants) for five players?
I pretty much hate Microsoft. However, I'm kind of impressed.
As for the technology...I don't know. I remember seeing it in a movie in Minority report, for example, whenever the hell that shitty movie was out. Jeff Han's stuff was certainly publicized earlier than this, but that doesn't mean he had his ideas first; according to the history stuff on Microsoft's Web site, they've been working on the idea for a long time. So either of them (or in fact someone else we have never seen or heard from) could really be the originators of this idea.
Anyway, I don't much care for who "invented" it, because it was going to happen eventually anyway.
What I'm impressed with is that it's well designed. It's the first thing I've ever seen from Microsoft that has Apple's ease of use...that follows the "less is better" dictum of interface design. They resisted using toolbars, and menus, and everything is simple and would be pretty intuitive for even technophobes to use.
So, for once, I have to say, "nice job, Microsoft".
gameDB
but can you imagine writing a driver for your favorite coffee cup?
I can't program, but boy, could I come up with some ideas:
- An in-desk coffee warmer that senses where you set the cup down (and quickly returns the rest of the desk to room temp so you don't burn your hand).
- A weight sensor that alerts the coffeemaker to brew more coffee. It could also log how much coffee you drink to alert you to buy more.
- A cup detector that alters the desk's color scheme to match the mug you chose today.
- A spill detector that brings a roll of paper towels up from a cabinet below.
- A sort of normative recommender system: "People who drink this much coffee should visit this site on renal health."
- Recognizing that two or more cups means there's a meeting going on. Load drivers for video conferencing.
- The desk should compare notes with the kitchen counter to remind you to wash your mug once in a while.
What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
Any sort of game that relies on a top-down view would benefit immeasurably from this. I, myself, am awaiting the day when I'll be able to play an RTS like Starcraft on a table like this - without having to build the table myself. The flashy graphics and automated stuff might even spawn a resurgence of D&D and similar games. As you said, playing online or even over a LAN still doesn't have quite the same social feel.
You can see some pretty cool demos at http://www.microsoft.com/surface/
This 20 year old idea was used many, many times in the various Star Trek shows, starting with Next Generation. They used large flat, touchable displays embedded in desks and console and often would set a pad computer on a desk/console to transfer some data to/from it. Theirs may not have been actual, functional computers at the time, but the ideas seem almost exactly the same to me. Of course, the idea is probably even older and from something I didn't read or see, but I see nothing in Microsoft's offering that I didn't see in Trek's. Hopefully this means they cannot patent the concept...
I have memories of playing tabletop arcade games and those memories are quite mixed. I seem to remember getting a very stiff neck and back from hovering over the screen.
While it's certainly interesting I have found that adding a computer to the mix (beyond a laptop for the DM with tools like eTools, DM's Familliar and access to the d20srt.org) frequently gets in the way of having a good time. We use a custom made board manufactured at a print shop which has dry erase material on both sides along with the standard 1" grid, we can map everything just fine with a marker and we can flip the board over for tactical stuff with miniatures (or just numbered pennies). The whole thing works brilliantly.
I have a projector and I've tied using various tools for mapping with the computer, but nothing works as well (or as fluidly) as the old "whiteboard".
A side comment about dice rollers, if you make a histogram with the average dice roller you will find that a lot of the time it just isn't as random as the good old fashioned die roll. I say, let D&D stay pen and paper...
crazy dynamite monkey
well... good thing, i like it, but it is not new, and certainly not affordable...
i mean...
that should be a 30" lcd with at least 3 cameras... that is not exaclty portable neither cheap...
even the computer should have way more power than te "medium" one we have today...
and it would just kill my back working on that thing. or tell me why you should put your monitor at a proper high...
it would be better to have a big monitor in front of you and a small table-touch-thing where you usually put your keyboard...
and i wonder how it works when you put 2 equal cameras on your desk... those in the video where _different_ devices.
why can't it change one for an other? or why can't someone else access your photos using similar device, just using a directional antenna ('cause i assume that things work with wifi, bluetooth is so slow...)? will that mean that we'll have cameras with passwords and things like that?(o shit!)
hell, why not just stick with a retractable usb cable??
o.. and if we stick with cables for devices, we won't even need camers! touchscreens will be fine! cheaper!
I strongy doubt it's using passive infra-red.
Once again Microsoft proves to the world that it can do anything right. There isn't a single cup holder anywhere on the stupid thing. And where are the ashtrays?
Steve Jobs could squeeze out something juicier than this in a two minute trip to the bathroom.
MS has a way of announcing products way in advance of when they will actually ship. From what they have stated, it is not even clear that they expect this to be available before Christmas. They stated on their website that it is due in Winter '07, which officially starts on December 21st.
I totally agree with what you said, but I would change it to the one who can polish and ship it .
It's a multitouch screen - it can process multiple simultaneous touches and gestures. Obviously you haven't researched the technology much.
Special version of MAME with on-screen controls will hopefully soon follow. I don't know if I'd pay $5000 for state-of-the-art applications and functionality... but if I can play Galaga with touch-screen controls I might change my tune.
They didn't even invent the interactions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thA_Oox1Cfc
Video of a table-based music interaction screen that's existed since around 2005. More-or-less, Microsoft combined this with Han's FTIR system and is now acting like they invented something, likely in response to Apple's iPhone and its multi-touch interface.
The one thing that's not detailed is the fact that Apple's multi-touch sensor can be spread over virtually any surface, whereas the one Microsoft's attempting to market has to be built into a table or something with substantial depth due to the need for a projector, camera, and IR optics. The capacitive sensor is a tad bit less accurate, but I'll take that for being able to be manufactured on thin-films and thusly be put on any device (multi-touch laptop mouse-pads ahoy).
So no, I'll pass on this one, I'll wait for my multi-touch portable, or at least something I can use upright.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
This would be a complete nightmare for back problems. Bad posture-related issues would far more frequrently occur with this device as you're much more hunched over the display.
yeah, well Aliens was shot in what 1986 (the table where they planned the defense of the colony using the digital architectual plans), the way I see it for trying to steal his glory, you owe James Cameron 1 blow job. Enjoy.
to augment the lagging sales of Vista malware?
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Blue Table of Death.
Was it just me, or did I see a highly familiar dock at the top of his screen at about 6'40" into the demo?
--
Franklin Brauner
The real question here is what happens if you spill the coffee, which is usually exactly what happens on fancy coffee tables. Can you then wirelessly make the table interact with that coffee, or does it simply hurt the table?
... that would be wonderful.
Now if it recognised there's been a spill and call a robot slave to clean it up
are there any open source projects moving this way?
Will there be a coffee-table book about the coffee-table computer, and will the book "become" a computer? (props to Larry David)
It would make sense that he run something like Processing (processing.org) or Flash to develop the demo. Why would somebody develop an underlying OS for interaction design purposes. The choice between Java and ActionScript would make me cringe at presentation time however!
Some more similar tech, albeit applied in a very different domain: The Reactable, basically a glorified synthesizer developed at the UPF in Barcelona, but very cool indeed. It also has a homepage and is used for instance by Björk.
Doesn't it seem strange to put a computer display into a table like this, rather than into just a table-top? Since displays are flat?
I'm thinking that the Apple version of this would have just been a table top and you would attach whatever legs you want, but there would be room for your legs under there.
The Microsoft version looks like it has some 1940's radar in there also. Why does it have to be such a big box?
There is a rumor that the next generation of Macs will have multi-touch screens like the iPhone. In that case a $1200 iMac can lay flat on your kitchen table and you have the same thing.
I have enough porn on my coffee table, thank you very much.
I love to complain as much as the next guy, but sometimes Slashdotters come off as the worst kind of internet poser that isn't impressed by anything. Sure there have been examples of this inthe past. The difference is a company like Microsoft takes the idea and makes a commercial product with it. Taking an idea out of the academic world and actually making something useful is the whole idea research like this. If Apple did this there would be a line a couple kms long on this site to fellate Jobs.
Or here...
http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Lucky you. Posting biblical stuff usually attracts flamebait, troll and redundant mods.
How is this table different from the one demoed over a year ago featuring warcraft 3? That one was also multi-point of contact, and accepted vocal commands. link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YIGh06lep0
Not to pick nits but I saw this very same demo a year ago expect it was credited to Apple. Check out the link. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6379146923 853181774
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
Can you imagine being the GM/DM and putting hex city maps or scrolling terrain/encounter maps on such a table display? Have the players put their characters' figures on the table, and you're good to go.
:-)
I'd LOVE to have something like this as a GM.
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
It's still a coffee table, the hardware is crude, Han's sensor is thin and scalable and can fit on the front of existing screens. So firstly in terms of hardware it has no mass market there because they require that back projector, Hans design doesn't.
Then there's the interface, please go look at Hans work and you'll see how crude the MS looks by comparison. They have the same zoom and rotate, but otherwise extremely limited gestures. I guess they'll copy his group actions too? What about his tilt action?
The only plus seems to be the WiFi camera detect, you place the camera on the screen and it magically shows the photos, well not really. The camera has to be tagged with a barcode like visual mark to be recognized by the table and the screen is pretaught the tags, and of course switched on (but then why wouldn't you press the send button?)
So what they've made there looks very nice in demo, but the parts Microsoft has contributed are poor and the other parts are assembled from other peoples work.
The reason I think it's a FUD operation is because it's being pre-announced. Also their claims are that it's been developed in secret for 5 years.... Microsoft doesn't keep secrets very well, and the work is poor by comparison to other people's work, a quick knock up rather than a long development project.
It looks like they saw the Apple announcement, or Han's work, thought, shit, lets knock something together to get in on the game, and that's what it looks like.
Why are we talking about this? Similar products have been around for some time. I've seen the TouchTable (http://www.touchtable.com/site/index.php) and that is pretty good.
You had friends?
Kickass Cheap Web Hosting
You know, I'd almost pay the price they're asking for a chance to play DEFCON on this... Then again, I'm hoping I'll get to make such a screen during the next few years, so maybe I'll get it.
In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
Lets give credit where credit is due and acknowledge good behavior when it emerges. Today Microsoft has genuinely innovated. They haven't invented anything new from whole cloth but they have taken a bunch of existing ideas and crafted a new and exciting product, that people will want to buy. Maybe this is something Microsoft might possibly get used to doing. You know, making good high quality useful stuff that people actually WANT to buy.
Here's to hoping!
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
There are applications for this sort of thing, but finger-painting isn't it.
Given that the basic property of this device is that output resolution is good and screen size is large, and input resolution is poor but you can use multiple touches, an obvious application is video editing. An interface for quickly putting together a news show would find a high-end market. There are tools for this now, like Avid NewsCutter, but they rely heavily on keyboard commands and have too many modes.
The big advantage of multi-touch is that it's a way out of the mode limitations of a single-pointer interface. Right now, your options are usually verb-object (get into mode, select thing), or object-verb (select thing, go to menu to indicate what to do with it.) This breaks down when you need to talk about more than one thing at a time. With multi-touch, there are more options.
Somebody will probably do a DJ console with this interface.
A few years ago, before LCD screens were big and cheap, a company making LCD projectors was running a contest where they'd give a projector to people with good "alternative" ways to use the technology.
I suggested what you are suggesting. Namely, a table with a translucent surface onto which the game map (and possibly various stats, rolls, etc.) was projected.
I didn't win. They even e-mailed me back to tell me it was a silly waste of technology.
It's nice to see MS licensing Apple's multitouch tech for their product, though. At least, I assume it's properly licensed.
Apple is using multitouch as a gimmick to create buzz. It doesn't actually do anything useful. Nothing like some facile Apple-bashing. Watch the Apple demos to see how useful multitouch is for a cell phone. And Apple's "postage stamp"-size screen will be something I can own myself & use every day, as opposed to the MS display, which costs $5k-$10k.
It reminds me of playing table top Pac Man in a restaurant in the 80's and also putting Cue Cat barcodes on everything in Y2K! Nice nostalgia combo there.
My comments here are my own; I do not speak for my employer.
I think the apps are nice, but the major enabling technology is multitouch. Which has been around, but just now is making some (marketing) headway.
Coupled with a large screen it is awesome, but I could see this in several applications. Imagine just the simple touchpad on a laptop being multitouch. You could do a lot of the similar photo manipulations with just that, separate from the screen. Or on pda's or large screen phones (like the iphone).
Anyways, could be kinda cool in the future.
J
Unless the memory stick or other flash media has some sort of wireless built in, there's no way that the "Blue screen of coffee tables" is going to "download" the contents into the PC running the display on the table. It might be able to get your contacts off your phone via bluetooth (but note that this won't be the demo's automagic version either, as most phones require user interaction to do transfers).
The fact that the whole media card "spilling" images onto the surface was reported as such a "Wow! Brilliant! The BEST thing EVAR!" just goes to show the poor state of technology journalism today.
And the demo of this particular feature isn't very Apple-like. An Apple interface wouldn't "spill" a random pile of crap onto the desktop. As for providing links to cell phone plans when you put your phone down on the table, that's such a bad idea it's hard to know where to start the critique. New from Microsoft! Spam on your coffee table! Yes, Bill, whenever I put my phone down I want to be bombarded with ads. Thanks so much! Most folks who have a plan (in the US) are locked in because that's how they got the cheap phone. Which shows the deep thought put into this product. And on, and on, and on.
As for the bar codes on everyday products, that sounds suspiciously like the CueCat business plan.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Check out the video on YT. This looks like another one of Microsoft's "embrace and call it your own" deals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZMNjoudyFM
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
What? No mention of the reactable? Not sure which research predates which, but the reactable sure is way cool as is :)
Bad news - that's no table, that's the new Zune Phone rumored for so long to compete against the iPhone!
Llama or sherpa not included.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Sure looks a lot like a young Bill Gates (with different hair color) and Melinda Gates, doesn't it?
Intentional? Or sheer coincidence, just like it's coincidence that MSFT is suing Linux vendors?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Completely different tech from Apple's. And both the bully and the fruit are followers on the multitouch scene.
"It's nice and light in case you'd like to throw it across the room."
The Coffee table uses infra-red sensors. What happens you place a a cup of hot coffee on the coffee table? what happens when you spill some? Will the coffee flowing over the table set off a touch sensor?
MS' interactive displays use near IR, not thermal IR. Probably because:
1 - NIR gear is incredibly cheap, whereas thermal IR gear is still very pricey.
2 - There are lots of materials that are transparent to NIR but translucent to visible light. Their displays have a NIR camera and an NIR LED array in addition to the video projector behind the projection surface, which the NIR light passes through in both directions. The user sees the visible light on the projection surface, and the system sees the user. AFAIK material that would work like that for thermal IR is more exotic.
Anyway, coffee would probably look transparent enough to the camera to not register a hit. But even if it did, the video shows little CGI bubbles moving away from the cup set on the table, so I'm sure they've thought of this kind of thing.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Well, according to the article, they eventually want to get this technology embedded into walls and ceilings. Just imagine the possibilities...beyond porn directly above your bed of course...
For example, imagine if your 'computer wall' could display an electronic companion that followed you around the house (naked) and did various tasks that you asked of it. (sort of like a nude clipy) The possibilities are endless.
The fluff comes from their interactive bowl project:
e /4534674.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_onlin
"We also hope to be able to drag the images around the bowl, making use of the physical properties of the bowl to be able to display things in certain places, and possibly let them sit at the bottom of the bowl for storage."
But it needs the devices to have visual tags appended to their bases.
Looking at where they were in Dec 2005, it looks like the multi-touch has been added quickly as an after thought to that project.
Wow, a picture of a finger pointing at a screen! What an amazing demonstration of the concept! There's even a text blurb saying it is revolutionary!
Are there perhaps any videos of this actually in action that you could link to instead?
In a fair world, refrigerators would make electricity.
Not a duplicate article - a duplicate technology that does the same thing as what a group at NYU are doing.
A description, and a nice Quicktime video.
I had a nice video of a demo at a tradeshow, too - but I can't find it right now.
Education is the silver bullet.
You have placed a cup of coffee on the surface, cancel or allow?
how dare you question THE STEVE!
hehe
iPhone, disappear me!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
'Microsoft's Multitouch Coffee Table Display' makes this sound trivial. If you watch the videos (okay, I only watched one) this is actually fairly rad and involved a great deal of research to achieve.
Yeah, but just try uploading that bucket of KFC Original recipe to a FAT partition. That's sure to clog the tubes.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
Amen to that.
Dude, Solomon crushes all of the existentialists so handily in Ecclesiastes.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Dude, you do realize you forgot the one element that is most critical to computing applications?
:)
Yeah, that's right.
Silicon.
Good job. Your geek license is hereby revoked.
You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people. - notnAP, #26891325
If using both hands to interact with something is a patentable idea, then I'm going to patent using both feet for walking.
Our patent system is FUBAR.
-ted
Check this link out: http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html
Check out the demonstrations of TouchLight and PlayAnywhere on Andy Wilson's blog: http://research.microsoft.com/~awilson/default.htm l - he's been working on this for quite some time. As I understand it, the surface itself is not a touch screen like in a PDA - the images from the camera are processed to perceive depth and detect a touch when all captured images reach a certain point of intersection. Instead of only detecting a physical touch, the screen can also detect as your hand (or whatever) moves closer or further away from the screen.
Each little touch you mentioned, while contributing its own degrees of wow-factor to the package, also contributes functionality.
The glowing ring -- confirmation of an established connection. Ripple effect -- an interstitial "sandbox" to ease users into this mode of interaction. Exploding pictures -- making it clear that the photos aren't being simply triggered by the phone's contact with the surface, obviously establishing their source as the phone itself.
Sure, you could pop up a centered Windows dialog for the first, have a guided tutorial for the second, and just draw in the photos starting in the upper left for the last. But the animated flourishes actually carry information, improving the interface's functionality.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
On the "surface", this looks pretty neat, but there's quite a bit of hardware to this thing. My feeling is that they haven't figured out how to do this in a smaller form factor.
It could be simply a factor of not wanting anyone to know (outside of MS) and thus, MS didn't shop around for someone to create ASICs, etc. to get this down to a reasonable size.
On the other hand, maybe what the world really, really needs to a $10K coffee table that your kid can lay your BlackBerry on and transfer your life to Nigeria, Estonia, etc.
Yeah...that's gotta be the case.
[tongue firmly in cheek]
I am my own gestalt.
Huh?
Its the same game. Announce it before your competitor does to keep people interested and not spending money on their product. seems to me Apple is very good at this technique as well
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
a coffee table in every living room in every home!
---k--
</stupid>
>I didn't win. They even e-mailed me back to tell me it was a silly waste of technology.
:-).
This is a real shame; I think it would be a great product (obviously). Playing devil's advocate for a moment, however, there probably isn't a large enough market to justify the expense of producing such a device. Which is why a general-purpose table sounds like such a good idea to me
Again and again Microsoft is leading the world with innovation. Server 2008, IIS 7, MOSS, Vista, Office 2007, Live.com, Popfly, Surface computing, Express Editions, etc., etc., are all great examples of the intense research by the best (expensive) brains in the world and subsequent implementation of that research by means of great design and engineering. There is a good reason why Microsoft is on top of the world and will only continue to grow and strengthen its' position. Capitalism rules!
Oh yeah, well what about Silicone?
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
Imagine what your back would feel like after leaning over this thing all day. Or how your arm would feel after holding it out straight if it were mounted vertically.
The only market I see for this thing in its present configuration is really rich geeks who have to be the first guy on the block to get some new gadget.
Touch-sensing isn't capacitive as it is with PDAs and Tablet PCs. It uses an Infrared sensing system and a set of cameras to detect objects on or within a few inches of the surface. Funny you should mention it, there IS a sheet of Lexan on top of it, and it works just fine. I should know, I'm sitting right beside one.
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Thanks to Microsoft I can't use the command "SURFACE! SURFACE!!" anymore.
I still like the computer navigation in Minority Report better. But indeed the MS one is pretty cool.
However you dress this up, it is still a Big Deal. It may not be the absolute first, but it is close enough for most folk.
And yet... Microsoft announce a major new product, and their stock price (as I write this) has gone up 2 cents.
Meanwhile, Apple hasn't anything (at least not until WWDC in a couple of weeks), and its stock price has gone up $3.06 !
1. Launch product
2. ????
3. Watch competitor profit!
"She's furniture with a pulse"
does it run on Linux?
> This is so "Star Trek" to the geek in me. Finally, a way to use the computing processing power available in a method about anyone can
> use. Now to get it into a package that is thinner and doesn't require the supporting table.
Possibly something that could be held in the hand and carried in the pocket, maybe a touch screen phone of some kind, maybe with an Apple logo on it, could be as soon as two weeks from now, but I don't know, it is so hard to peer into the mysterious future of technology.
What do you do once you, or a clumsy house guest, inevitably spills steaming hot coffee (with a sticky creamer or loads of sugar) all over your nice shiny new "coffee" table?
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Squirts on your zune, steals info from your cell phone, generally sucks.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Ooooh, I like that one too.
Imagine if we could make silicon breast implants. A set of jugs that could hold the Library of Congress!
Of course, the lovely ladies blessed with such extensions would need to wear water-cooled brassieres.
You are still innocent until proven guilty. What's changed is what they do to innocent people. - notnAP, #26891325
(sarcasm mode ON)
A boon to corporate espionage! Set down any Bluetooth device on this table and it automatically downloads whatever is IN that device!
How thoughtful! How friendly! How fracking SECURE for the unwary!
Just what I want, to have to worry about which piece of furniture I can and cannot put my Bluetooth devices on, for fear of them having their data hijacked by one of these things. HIPAA compliancy issues, anyone?
I can't wait until the first insurance agent gets his or her bluetooth phone hijacked by one of these things - with their client list included. That's what? A $10,000 per steal fine?
Oh, this is going to be fun to watch!
Not to mention that if Starwood Hotels is getting them, then they are doomed from the get-go...!
(sarcasm mode OFF)
If you look at the link, multi-touch tabletop interfaces have been in developement for a long time. There have been lots of responses regarding Jeff Han, yet MS has publically demonstrated multi-touch before Jeff Han.
Imagine, your character sheet and virtual dice right in front of you; automated tracking for dice rolls, combat and spell recovery; fancy graphics for your map, characters, and monsters; maybe even a soundtrack and audio effects.
Actually, in Windows XP you can turn off the unsigned-driver warning messages through the Adminitrative Tools in the local secuirty policies.
"The majority is always sane, Louis." -- Nessus
http://slashdot.jp
Good points and it all relates to the relevance of Surface and similar devices as commercial products.
I'm sure these will be eye-catching in a casino and other locations; the photo downloading and manipulation would be _great_ at a Kodak kiosk in your local store.
But what about the home/consumer market? It's more than a matter of just being too expensive right now. Even when the price comes down, there are fundamental issues. One of the first may be the fact that screens get dirty when you touch them. There are ways to reduce the impact of fingerprints, but those ways impact screen clarity. The finger-painting was cute and all but fingers are fairly imprecise compared to a digital tablet and pen.
At first glance, it seems more "natural" to interact with screen objects using your hands and fingers. But that doesn't mean it is more efficient. One example--multi-touch input isn't much help when you only have one finger on one hand. Or if you can't keep your fingers steady enough to use it properly. Like the keyboard, it may very well be technology most efficiently used by people with two hands and 10 fingers.
Where do you get these? Does WotC sell them? I looked around for torrents, but everything I can find seems to be just PDFs full of page images -- not searchable.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
To Play "Duke Nukem Forever" on that display...
Would indeed be a nice add-on to this rubbing-based device.
...in a portable, hand-held device! Oh, wait a minute...........
I am a Linux zealot. I hate Microsoft. I push Open Source everywhere. I don't have any windows or macintosh computers. I have five linux servers in my house. I have two linux workstations on my desk. I just launched an initiative for Linux on the desktop at work. I have wanted multi-touch since I saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ftJhDBZqss, http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirsense/ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcKqyn-gUbY
I'm afraid that is cool enough that I might switch back from Linux to Windows. Where do I get in line for one of these again?
[signature]
> Consider the iPod, which was absolutely nothing new
... what was new was that it worked.
As far as parts go, pieces go, no not really anything new
I would love to see something from Microsoft that works. It doesn't have to be new.
See, I know this guy, who knows this guy, who kinda-sorta "borrowed" them.
Really, I think he found them online, some of them are images, but most of the main one's are good quality scans with the text rendered.
I couldn't tell you where he got them though.
The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
on a side note, why did it take it 930AM EST to get this up on /.
If you "worked" as a Slashdot editor, would you get up before 9 AM?
Have you noticed that Microsoft keeps emphasizing things like "social" and "collaborative" with respect to a lot of their products, including this one. They're implying that this is good--you're not isolated when using the device. And yet, they are pushing for more and more and MORE interaction solely with A F~*%ING COMPUTER, not a living, breathing person!!! You can bet that when I go to a restaurant that has one of these things, I'll either: 1) leave and go somewhere else, or 2) ask for a tablecloth!
Naturally they chose a tabletop to implement their crap version of this technology since they need a place to hide the three or four ultra-high end PC's and cooling system required to run it (on top of the already bloated Windows Vista OS). My desk is cluttered enough, the last thing I need is more shyte going on underneath my papers. And where are my legs going to go when I'm sitting at this "desk?" Are we all expected to stand like Borg automotons in M$FT's glorious vision of our future?
--
Franklin Brauner
...in their homes. What are they going to use it for? What a lot of people seem to be missing is the fact that this is just a coffee table Right this moment. Once people get their hands on it who knows how it'll eventually be used? It doesn't matter who gets it out the door first it's not going to be a static technology. Someone's going to be sitting at their MSTable and think, "Gee, wouldn't it be cool if it could do 'this?'" Eventually "this" will be something that's just in the background, not really noticed beyond how it's being used at the moment. I email on my computer, and then I surf the web, and then I watch... videos, and then I order music, and then I buy a book... It does all of those things but in the end it's still just a computer! I mean a calculator. Don't think about what this thing does now, imagine what it'll be doing later. And then remember the guy who evented a better calculator.
"Freedom Through Vigilance"
I am so exited. For now I have tilted my computer monitor 45 degrees to approximate the experience.
... xroach?
Have gnu, will travel.
I call bs on it actually working. Call me a cynic but I have a feeling that the photo, taken at about 2m:30s into the video, is not the exact same photo as the one on the coffee-table computer that was supposedly downloaded from the camera. I think the photo was prepared earlier, just something about the fidelity and care he gives into taking such an "improvised" photo, and the stillness and pose of the subject, leads me to conjecture that they prepared the photo earlier and it wasn't actually downloaded, only loaded from the computer's memory when the camera is placed onto the surface. I have no proof, it's just a gut feeling.
The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
The ReacTable has been used recently by Bjork at the Coachella festival.
o jekte/projekte/ineractable.html1 /10/space-and-place-a-list-fo-interactive-tables/
There are lots of good videos linked from the BoingBoing article including one of Robert Moog interacting with a ReactTable.
The software is available so if you want one have a crack at building your own.
As best as I can tell the only innovation that Microsoft has added to their interactive table is the wireless interface support (Bluetooth etc). All the shape and "domino" tags recognition have been done before. It would be interesting to see how many of the developers of other interactive tables have been involved with this project.
Other interactive tables can be found here.
http://mtg.upf.es/reactable/?related
http://www.tangibletable.de/
http://www.ipsi.fraunhofer.de/ambiente/english/pr
http://www.jamespatten.com/audiopad/
http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/nova/blog/2005/0
http://www.studiocruz.com/scdc-tag/20060211-multit ouchreel.mov
You actually can operate it with your butt, and you can operate it after a drink has been spilled on it.
r y/4217348.html?page=2
It works by sensing a change in the way that infrared light is reflected back from a part of the surface that is being touched.
Take a look here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/indust
Not A Sig
Microsoft announces the Surface. Apple announces the availability of DRM-free music at iTunes. Now, which product do you think will make the most profit for their respective company during the coming year? The first production units of the Surface, whenever they happen, will be limited to commercial buyers--and not too many of them, I'd guess.
As an Apple shareholder, all I can say about today's $4.42 gain is "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAH!!!"
The samsung experience, in the new time warner building in NYC (Columbus circle) has a large table out front that does this--in a very basic form. Not nearly as advanced, but very cool. You should give it a shot if you are nearby.
Yet another "credit due" department post. But at least here is a video: http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~saul/wiki/uploads/P ress/07-mediaclip-icore-full.wmv
U. of Calgary actually motivated a start up company called SMART technologies to commercialize this technology.
"The coffee you are trying to drink may be hot. Allow?"
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Search youtube for reactable.
Me lost me cookie at the disco.
http://citywall.org/pages/about
Fucking great. Now my coffee table can disallow high def content and continually ask for activation too.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I know the Microsoft table is like a thousand times more powerful and different but this still gives me flashbacks to the pizza parlour of the early 80's with the PacMan tables that you could sit at, eat pizza, and play against a friend. Of course, I was royally pissed when I found out the tables didn't have a kewl 3D hologram mode. "No? How come? They did it in Robotech!" lol
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
So basically the same thing would be possible with the Microsoft product, just more conveniently. Kewlness.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Yeah, Defcon would be a perfect application. Just imagine all the scenes from the movies where you see tactical plots, maps, etc in control rooms and imagine them rendering like this! The one idea I had when I was a kid (influenced by and stolen from others) would be a holotank to update the military dioramas you saw in the good WWII films. You know, when they're planning a complicated raid and need to see the environment in 3D. In this case it would not just be for planning but also for tactical control. Everyone is tied in via packet radio and positions are rendered in the tank in real-time.
:)
I have a friend who does military work and he says that the real life displays are getting almost as good as RTS games. By this I mean you're talking about integrating sensory data from hundreds of sources into one tactical map that overviews the area you are operating in. In the old days, you're looking at a paper map and are sticking pins in it to indicate where your people are, where contacts are located, etc. With the new system, it's a computer screen and your soldiers have their own GPS to pinpoint their locations, that data is fed back over the tactical radio, and enemy points of contact are also added. Micro-UAV's can be directed over points of contact and give you a bird's eye view of exactly what's going on there. It's almost like playing an RTS with fog of war turned off.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
I don't know if this is a silly thing to think of, but I've always had a problem when people touch my monitor and leave a hoard of finger prints across the display area. When you have a touch screen, those things get even nastier. All the human hand grease starts to obscure the display, and they are usually a pain in the ass to clean. I guess they probably have some sort of easy clean surfaces on touch devices (not much experience with them), but still...
I mean I know a few people I wouldn't want touching my mouse or keyboard...you know the guys that leave a grease hand print permanently on your desk if they ever lean on it? Yeah, I wouldn't want those guys smearing their hands all over my display.
Anyway, neat implementation of a touch interface. I think though that they better add some sorting features to the photos, cause digging through a virtual pile will probably be as annoying as going through your own photo drawer.
Alas, yes-
Someone has INDEED thought of that before.
His name is goatse (look it up on Wikipedia) and the capacity is apparently phenomenal.
Work has since ceased on the project, as there was problems involving retention of the objects...
.
- aqk
F U
I must be missing something.
I wasn't that impressed with the whole thing. Yes, the way it handles external storage devices placed on the surface is slick and a few of the UI features use the interface well but overall it doesn't seem very interesting. At least not nearly interesting enough to live up to the hype I've heard over the last two days.
I've heard claims about how this will revolutionize the way we interact with computers. Someone explain what new things I'll be able to do with this. Some explain how I'll be able to do old things better. (What, am I supposed to send all of my emails as finger-paint jpegs?)
When did Kramer go to work for MS
Telecommuting! What about socialization?
It isn't capacitive with PDAs and Tablet PCs. Those are resistive. Laptop trackpads and ipod controls are capacitive. This is optical.
It's a nice product and all, but it's not really that innovative or new that other people within the community haven't thought about or developed. you can easily build a multitouch display yourself. i got some guidelines on my blog on how to build a multitouch display @ www.multitouch.nl. There's also an open source multitouch community called NUIgroup with alot of information about hardware and software related to multitouch @ www.nuigroup.com