I have; I had a linux server for almost 10, and a desktop for about two. I got so sick of trying to make it do what I want I went back to windows on the desktop and moved to Server 2003 for my server.. I'm much happier now.
Wow, there are STILL people that believe this line of shit? DRM doesn't cause network performance to drop. Its the sound and network driver competing, and the OS purposely letting the sound driver win. The problem is that it lets it win too often. Personally to me its a who cares problem... I'd rather my sound not skip, and I don't even have a giga connection.
Printouts don't exactly tell you if you got the stroke right or wrong though do they? No, you don't NEED spcial software, but it helps and goes a long way.
A program that makes you hit FJFJFJFJFJFJFJFJ over and over again, throwing in A or ; to make sure your got the pattern correct helps you learn that much faster. Spell check doesn't work if you're just doing the home row for a particular lesson.
I never said by excluding ssh someone cripples a Windows OS. I don't even think someone else posted such a thing. The whole point was that MS ignores that many environments are mixed. That's why I mentioned the samba example, remember?
You need to go up the thread then; when you first replied to me, that was the whole point of this discussion; someone said exactly that, and I called BS, and thats where you jumped in.
And yes although by excluding ssh you are not crippling Windows, you are crippling a mixed environment.
The environment doesn't suffer at all; it works together.
And no, the solution you suggested(buying a 3d party tool) is laughable. You know it too. After all we are not talking if I or you can solve these things out. Of course I have all the tools I need in a laptop/Usb/cd-rom. Nevertheless I feel more secure if an OS can handle basic functions with its default installation.
Huh? Third party tool? The company SSH is owned by the man that came up with the protocol!! The open source package you have that comes with Linux is the one this guy wrote! The same one he sells! So it makes a difference to you if an OS vender slaps in on their own CD or not? That's amazing to me. And its not a basic function; it only comes up if YOU want to manage Unix servers from a Windows box. MS focuses on making it easy to manage THEIR environment. If that doesn't meet your needs, you shouldn't be using it.
That's why I feel more secure with Linux systems. You are a professional you know what I mean. I 'm a DBA(specially Oracle) and most of the DB installs I come across are on Linux/Unix, even if the whole organization has all the clients running Windows.
Then you've fallen for the anti-MS FUD. Windows is just as secure. And most of the DB installs I've dealt with are MS Sql Server.
So my initial post were about people(administrators) that work with mixed environments. Actually I never added anything more compared to people that said EXACTLY the same thing and got moded +5 Insightful.
Your initial post was gibberish that you yelled at me about when I couldn't decipher it. And it had nothing to do with the thread I was participating in. At most, you were trying to artificially constrain the thread further to make your case, instead of arguing the point as it was stated.
P.S. I can't understand how someone can evaluate someone else's karma with just what.. 4-5 posts?
Its simple; every new/. account lets you post at a score of 1 immediately after creation. Your posts are starting at 0 always; that only happens if you've gotten more -1s or if you are modding unfairly (or an admin sees you're trolling).
On the other hand, you're rewarded if you're modded up a lot by being able to add a +1.
That said a lot. Actually I ve been on slash since the beginning maybe? Always as an anonymous coward. I had many +5 funnys,insightful, etc not attributed to any alias or nickname.
So you say.
And you know why? Because it does not define who I am so I really could not care less. Obviously you care a lot, so I m not gonna break it to you.
I don't care, insofar as it gives me an idea if someone is simply a troll or overall a good poster. That's the point of karma. Overall, you've been modded badly, which makes me wonder.
You can put me in your "foes" (I don't use this feature) and be done with it.
I find that part of the system useless; I only tag people I would like to notice again, but I'm not going to waste time publicly saying I dislike someone.
If you just want to keep your "experienced" opinion, keep it. Although I really can't get it how an experienced IT guy like you weren't in a situation where Internet was not available. I never talked about constrained environments though, so keep your statistics for another posts. peace(no really!)
Which was my point exactly; you didn't mention constrained environments. That's why I don't think ssh need be included in an OS and not including it doesn't count as crippling the OS. A constrained environment (such as one without any inet access) is an edge case. I also give a solution that should work in your environment (unless is so constained you can only use what comes on the OS CD, but that hardly seems useful at al, especially if it means you're using an OS without a tool you claim to required).
Sorry, you're the one that don't get it; if you NEED an OS which comes with ssh pre-installed, than Windows is not the right tool, so use a *nix OS instead.
But since you have absolutely no clue about other Operating Systems, I really can't understand why you have such a strong opinion. "Prove it"? I almost fell off my chair with that one.
Righhht. Always the call of a stupid zealot that can't accept reality. Nevermind that I have plenty of experience managing Unix and unix like OSes, and that I ran my home network on Linux for almost 10 years..
My assertion is that ssh is required; all you've done is shown your ignorance on how many places not only don't need it pre-installed (because they CAN get ssh installed) but don't need it at all (because they are 100% Windows based).
But please, prove me wrong that a majority of IT depts absolutely REQUIRE SSH WITH THE OS. You're going to have a tough time, because not many places totally lock out internet access. That's a minority (and there have been studies showing as much).
Oh, and you ignore my suggestion of buy Ssh from Ssh.com and getting them to ship you a CD. So its not like you can't get it installed even without the internet.
Ugh.. why am I wasting time replying to someone that starts at a 0?
Really? And Works has something built in to teach you the home row? It times your exercises, and randomizes words you'll need to type? It tells you how many keys you've mistyped? Touch typing != simply pushing keys.
I don't buy that at all. I grew up when DOS 3.33 was the most current version. I had both Apple's, Macs and PCs in my schools. Why did I go with a PC? Well, my parents buying one helped, but when I was in school and wanted my OWN computer, guess what was more affordable? A PC, which included DOS. So that's what I bought.
Hehe. No it isnt. With Windows there is *always* another way. The tricks for getting around some of them are hilariously stupid.
Spoken as somebody that hasn't used Windows in a long time. Nothing you mentioned is even that hard to do on Windows. Maybe you should google Group Policy instead of sounding stupid.
Not sure I agree with the logic. Google doesn't "know" english, its knows character sequences. Does it matter if we interperate them as English or Norwegian? As long as it has indexed results from Norway and favors those results for users from Norway, I'd think it would do just as well.
Think what you want; needing to drop into a console everytime I needed to fix something on my Linux server was one of the main reasons I moved my home computers from Linux to Windows. I actually want a life outside of administering my network.
I get it now. Its MS' fault you're using the wrong tool for the job. Ok. You realize of course that you can BUY ssh from that site, and they'll send you this nifty thing called a CD. It will contain the program you need on it. Wonderful!
But the point is, it is the most used tool in business situations(servers etc).
Every time I read his name, it's in connection with something I see as damaging to Linux and the Free Software movement. And surely nobody can describe OOXML in these terms without some sort of bias?
Ya, because actually addressing the comments brought up by the ISO and resolving them is Evil!!! It may actually get approved! And who needs more than ONE standard?
Gnome is GPL, isn't it? Doesn't that make it inherently possible for people to sideline this person no matter his current position, before we risk serious damage? In terms of patents, introduction of copyrighted code, or perhaps other issues, presumably someone in his position acting deliberately, could cause some nasty legal wrangles. And actions so far give reason for distrust, do they not?
Right, because a non-MS employee has seen the source code, and MS actively HELPING Mono so that they can sue them later.
I can only imagine the hysteria here when.Net 3.5 comes with the source code.. I guess its not just MS that likes to FUD..
OMG TWO!!!!1111!! Why someone would need to INTO the office to get to a VPN is also beyond me.. seems you would VPN to the office from home... and have a real computer, not a 2" screen.
What do you mean by the newest RDC? I have used the one shipping with windows 2003, it behaves as i describe and every deployment where i've seen it being used. If the version in 2008 behaves more securely you can't really consider that until it comes out of beta.
The version 6 client supports that authentication; Win2k3 SP2 adds support on the server side for that same authentication.
Proof? Open up a remote desktop client and connect to a server, it displays a windows login prompt that gives away the OS version and if the machine is part of a domain, gives you a list of accessible domains or the name of the local system.
Ok, how useful is that? You can get an account locked out for too many failed attempts, and you have no idea what updates are installed either.
A few years ago i often used servers to encode mp3, because they were much faster... Nowadays you could use it for video, or any other situation where you have a dataset you need to upload and do a lot of processing on. I can have a 4 socket quad core server running away nicely in a server room, i wouldn't want such a big noisy machine on my desk. Any program that produces textual output could be executed on the server and piped over ssh, for the results to be parsed locally, or on to another server for instance.
Not very common to do though, and encoding video? I think any performance gains using a server to do the encoding are offset by the network time you need to send uploading it and the time spent encrypting it.
I can also download files with SSH, and if the file isn't already compressed i will typically make the server compress the file on the fly (eg bzip2 -9), pipe over ssh and then have my client decompress locally, works great over slow links. I can also pipe files over and decompress/unarchive them on the fly, instead of downloading and then decompressing (wasting local storage and taking longer as the disk heads thrash back and forth). I can do audio conferencing over SSH without having to install extra apps (between workstations obviously) with cat/dev/audio etc I can do disk copies by piping contents of/dev/sda over ssh, i can save to an image file (optionally compressing on the fly) and restore in the same way - every livecd has ssh I can pipe video files off my server and direct into a video player on my laptop (my laptop has very little spare hd space) I can have ssh login to servers automatically and tar up directories, and pipe the output to a backup device. I can have a central server retrieve backups from any number of other servers and store them. I dont need to backup the whole machine, i can selectively do partitions or directories without needing any third party apps.
More who cares and dubious examples. These aren't common administrative functions. They're not administrative functions at all as far as I can tell.
The beauty of SSH is that it offers you the flexibility, once you get used to it you'll find that you use it regularly for all kinds of things, and if you use something less flexible you'll often get frustrated. Conversely, if you're not used to the flexibility offered by SSH you won't miss it. My grandfather drove cars without air conditioning for the past 50+ years and was perfectly happy. His latest car had aircon, and now that he's used to having it he would never consider buying another car without it.
I had a Linux server running SSH. It was useful. I could do what I needed to...except that focusing on command line administration makes things way harder than they need to be, which is why I replace it with a Windows server. RD also allows me to do the same tasks though using the GUI tools. So I can actually get my work done.
The mp3 encoding was just an example btw.
I realize that, and its a poor one. We're talking about administering servers, and you're trying to claim that lack of SSH "cripples" the server so that you can't do that well. Its just not true.
No, it doesn't change my comment regarding the OP at all. He'd steal it, if he could. Because he can't, he says it influences others. My question stands, as he obviously doesn't care about Vista deactivating or not, he only cares that he can't steal it.
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I have; I had a linux server for almost 10, and a desktop for about two. I got so sick of trying to make it do what I want I went back to windows on the desktop and moved to Server 2003 for my server.. I'm much happier now.
Wow, there are STILL people that believe this line of shit? DRM doesn't cause network performance to drop. Its the sound and network driver competing, and the OS purposely letting the sound driver win. The problem is that it lets it win too often. Personally to me its a who cares problem... I'd rather my sound not skip, and I don't even have a giga connection.
DRM isn't causing performance slowdowns.
Printouts don't exactly tell you if you got the stroke right or wrong though do they? No, you don't NEED spcial software, but it helps and goes a long way.
A program that makes you hit FJFJFJFJFJFJFJFJ over and over again, throwing in A or ; to make sure your got the pattern correct helps you learn that much faster. Spell check doesn't work if you're just doing the home row for a particular lesson.
Huh? For what? Comcast? Comcast is the #1 WORST in service, price, and quality. If you want to drop TW for Comcast, get your head checked first.
I never said by excluding ssh someone cripples a Windows OS. I don't even think someone else posted such a thing. The whole point was that MS ignores that many environments are mixed. That's why I mentioned the samba example, remember?
/. account lets you post at a score of 1 immediately after creation. Your posts are starting at 0 always; that only happens if you've gotten more -1s or if you are modding unfairly (or an admin sees you're trolling).
You need to go up the thread then; when you first replied to me, that was the whole point of this discussion; someone said exactly that, and I called BS, and thats where you jumped in.
And yes although by excluding ssh you are not crippling Windows, you are crippling a mixed environment.
The environment doesn't suffer at all; it works together.
And no, the solution you suggested(buying a 3d party tool) is laughable. You know it too. After all we are not talking if I or you can solve these things out. Of course I have all the tools I need in a laptop/Usb/cd-rom. Nevertheless I feel more secure if an OS can handle basic functions with its default installation.
Huh? Third party tool? The company SSH is owned by the man that came up with the protocol!! The open source package you have that comes with Linux is the one this guy wrote! The same one he sells! So it makes a difference to you if an OS vender slaps in on their own CD or not? That's amazing to me. And its not a basic function; it only comes up if YOU want to manage Unix servers from a Windows box. MS focuses on making it easy to manage THEIR environment. If that doesn't meet your needs, you shouldn't be using it.
That's why I feel more secure with Linux systems. You are a professional you know what I mean. I 'm a DBA(specially Oracle) and most of the DB installs I come across are on Linux/Unix, even if the whole organization has all the clients running Windows.
Then you've fallen for the anti-MS FUD. Windows is just as secure. And most of the DB installs I've dealt with are MS Sql Server.
So my initial post were about people(administrators) that work with mixed environments. Actually I never added anything more compared to people that said EXACTLY the same thing and got moded +5 Insightful.
Your initial post was gibberish that you yelled at me about when I couldn't decipher it. And it had nothing to do with the thread I was participating in. At most, you were trying to artificially constrain the thread further to make your case, instead of arguing the point as it was stated.
P.S. I can't understand how someone can evaluate someone else's karma with just what.. 4-5 posts?
Its simple; every new
On the other hand, you're rewarded if you're modded up a lot by being able to add a +1.
That said a lot. Actually I ve been on slash since the beginning maybe? Always as an anonymous coward. I had many +5 funnys,insightful, etc not attributed to any alias or nickname.
So you say.
And you know why? Because it does not define who I am so I really could not care less. Obviously you care a lot, so I m not gonna break it to you.
I don't care, insofar as it gives me an idea if someone is simply a troll or overall a good poster. That's the point of karma. Overall, you've been modded badly, which makes me wonder.
You can put me in your "foes" (I don't use this feature) and be done with it.
I find that part of the system useless; I only tag people I would like to notice again, but I'm not going to waste time publicly saying I dislike someone.
If you just want to keep your "experienced" opinion, keep it. Although I really can't get it how an experienced IT guy like you weren't in a situation where Internet was not available. I never talked about constrained environments though, so keep your statistics for another posts. peace(no really!)
Which was my point exactly; you didn't mention constrained environments. That's why I don't think ssh need be included in an OS and not including it doesn't count as crippling the OS. A constrained environment (such as one without any inet access) is an edge case. I also give a solution that should work in your environment (unless is so constained you can only use what comes on the OS CD, but that hardly seems useful at al, especially if it means you're using an OS without a tool you claim to required).
Sorry, you're the one that don't get it; if you NEED an OS which comes with ssh pre-installed, than Windows is not the right tool, so use a *nix OS instead.
But since you have absolutely no clue about other Operating Systems, I really can't understand why you have such a strong opinion. "Prove it"? I almost fell off my chair with that one.
Righhht. Always the call of a stupid zealot that can't accept reality. Nevermind that I have plenty of experience managing Unix and unix like OSes, and that I ran my home network on Linux for almost 10 years..
My assertion is that ssh is required; all you've done is shown your ignorance on how many places not only don't need it pre-installed (because they CAN get ssh installed) but don't need it at all (because they are 100% Windows based).
But please, prove me wrong that a majority of IT depts absolutely REQUIRE SSH WITH THE OS. You're going to have a tough time, because not many places totally lock out internet access. That's a minority (and there have been studies showing as much).
Oh, and you ignore my suggestion of buy Ssh from Ssh.com and getting them to ship you a CD. So its not like you can't get it installed even without the internet.
Ugh.. why am I wasting time replying to someone that starts at a 0?
Really? And Works has something built in to teach you the home row? It times your exercises, and randomizes words you'll need to type? It tells you how many keys you've mistyped? Touch typing != simply pushing keys.
How can you learn to type quickly if you've reduced the kid to typing at most four letters per word, without puncutation?
I don't buy that at all. I grew up when DOS 3.33 was the most current version. I had both Apple's, Macs and PCs in my schools. Why did I go with a PC? Well, my parents buying one helped, but when I was in school and wanted my OWN computer, guess what was more affordable? A PC, which included DOS. So that's what I bought.
Did they happen to have Tux Teaches Grammar? Or did you skip that day?
Nope. You can prevent that by disabling Logon Caching. No link to the domain controller = no logon period.
So far in this thread I've only read about admins not doing their job, not something that wasn't possible for Windows to control access to.
Hehe. No it isnt. With Windows there is *always* another way.
The tricks for getting around some of them are hilariously stupid.
Spoken as somebody that hasn't used Windows in a long time. Nothing you mentioned is even that hard to do on Windows. Maybe you should google Group Policy instead of sounding stupid.
Not sure I agree with the logic. Google doesn't "know" english, its knows character sequences. Does it matter if we interperate them as English or Norwegian? As long as it has indexed results from Norway and favors those results for users from Norway, I'd think it would do just as well.
Think what you want; needing to drop into a console everytime I needed to fix something on my Linux server was one of the main reasons I moved my home computers from Linux to Windows. I actually want a life outside of administering my network.
I get it now. Its MS' fault you're using the wrong tool for the job. Ok. You realize of course that you can BUY ssh from that site, and they'll send you this nifty thing called a CD. It will contain the program you need on it. Wonderful!
But the point is, it is the most used tool in business situations(servers etc).
Prove it.
Every time I read his name, it's in connection with something I see as damaging to Linux and the Free Software movement. And surely nobody can describe OOXML in these terms without some sort of bias?
.Net 3.5 comes with the source code.. I guess its not just MS that likes to FUD..
Ya, because actually addressing the comments brought up by the ISO and resolving them is Evil!!! It may actually get approved! And who needs more than ONE standard?
Gnome is GPL, isn't it? Doesn't that make it inherently possible for people to sideline this person no matter his current position, before we risk serious damage? In terms of patents, introduction of copyrighted code, or perhaps other issues, presumably someone in his position acting deliberately, could cause some nasty legal wrangles. And actions so far give reason for distrust, do they not?
Right, because a non-MS employee has seen the source code, and MS actively HELPING Mono so that they can sue them later.
I can only imagine the hysteria here when
Huh.. amazing how zealots become quiet when I explain I did run all linux for a time, and why it failed..
You actually read his tasks right? Encoding an mp3 or a video? Are you REALLY claiming those are even administrative tasks??
Scripting has its place, no doubt. It shouldn't be the default way to administer most functions though.
OMG TWO!!!!1111!! Why someone would need to INTO the office to get to a VPN is also beyond me.. seems you would VPN to the office from home... and have a real computer, not a 2" screen.
Ya, maybe you should have mentioned that's what you were talkig about in your OP, instead of posting gibberish.
If you need an ssh client, its pretty easy to install one. Still doesn't mean it needs to be included by default.
What do you mean by the newest RDC? I have used the one shipping with windows 2003, it behaves as i describe and every deployment where i've seen it being used. If the version in 2008 behaves more securely you can't really consider that until it comes out of beta.
/dev/audio etc /dev/sda over ssh, i can save to an image file (optionally compressing on the fly) and restore in the same way - every livecd has ssh
The version 6 client supports that authentication; Win2k3 SP2 adds support on the server side for that same authentication.
Proof? Open up a remote desktop client and connect to a server, it displays a windows login prompt that gives away the OS version and if the machine is part of a domain, gives you a list of accessible domains or the name of the local system.
Ok, how useful is that? You can get an account locked out for too many failed attempts, and you have no idea what updates are installed either.
A few years ago i often used servers to encode mp3, because they were much faster... Nowadays you could use it for video, or any other situation where you have a dataset you need to upload and do a lot of processing on. I can have a 4 socket quad core server running away nicely in a server room, i wouldn't want such a big noisy machine on my desk.
Any program that produces textual output could be executed on the server and piped over ssh, for the results to be parsed locally, or on to another server for instance.
Not very common to do though, and encoding video? I think any performance gains using a server to do the encoding are offset by the network time you need to send uploading it and the time spent encrypting it.
I can also download files with SSH, and if the file isn't already compressed i will typically make the server compress the file on the fly (eg bzip2 -9), pipe over ssh and then have my client decompress locally, works great over slow links.
I can also pipe files over and decompress/unarchive them on the fly, instead of downloading and then decompressing (wasting local storage and taking longer as the disk heads thrash back and forth).
I can do audio conferencing over SSH without having to install extra apps (between workstations obviously) with cat
I can do disk copies by piping contents of
I can pipe video files off my server and direct into a video player on my laptop (my laptop has very little spare hd space)
I can have ssh login to servers automatically and tar up directories, and pipe the output to a backup device. I can have a central server retrieve backups from any number of other servers and store them. I dont need to backup the whole machine, i can selectively do partitions or directories without needing any third party apps.
More who cares and dubious examples. These aren't common administrative functions. They're not administrative functions at all as far as I can tell.
The beauty of SSH is that it offers you the flexibility, once you get used to it you'll find that you use it regularly for all kinds of things, and if you use something less flexible you'll often get frustrated. Conversely, if you're not used to the flexibility offered by SSH you won't miss it.
My grandfather drove cars without air conditioning for the past 50+ years and was perfectly happy. His latest car had aircon, and now that he's used to having it he would never consider buying another car without it.
I had a Linux server running SSH. It was useful. I could do what I needed to...except that focusing on command line administration makes things way harder than they need to be, which is why I replace it with a Windows server. RD also allows me to do the same tasks though using the GUI tools. So I can actually get my work done.
The mp3 encoding was just an example btw.
I realize that, and its a poor one. We're talking about administering servers, and you're trying to claim that lack of SSH "cripples" the server so that you can't do that well. Its just not true.
I somehow doubt administrating a server via a phone will take off..
Ahh.. so you have no clue on how to remotely administer a Windows server then.
No, it doesn't change my comment regarding the OP at all. He'd steal it, if he could. Because he can't, he says it influences others. My question stands, as he obviously doesn't care about Vista deactivating or not, he only cares that he can't steal it.