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Driver Update Can Cause Vista Deactivation
KrispySausage writes "After weeks of grueling troubleshooting, I've finally had it confirmed by Microsoft Australia and USA — something as small as swapping the video card or updating a device driver can trigger a total Vista deactivation.
Put simply, your copy of Windows will stop working with very little notice (three days) and your PC will go into "reduced functionality" mode, where you can't do anything but use the web browser for half an hour."
Fool me once...shame on you......fool me twice.....shame on me. If you use vista and it bites you in the ass....well.... you deserve it.
Good reason to stay with XP!
I had to reactivate my copy of Windows Vista Ultimate after updating an NVIDIA network controller driver via Windows Update. Not a huge pain, but it simply shouldn't happen. Ever.
Wonders never cease.
I remember when windows ONLY did this. Aaah how time changes :D
...to a question that was never asked: Don't say we didn't warn you.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Is there a decent pirated version of Vista yet? I usually use the pirated version of software, even if I have paid for it. Everything works better that way... games don't need disks inserted, XP doesn't need activation or WGA, etc. The pirates have a better product.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
What other industry is there that abuses their customers like this? I feel like I'm being accused of criminal activity from the first second I install a MS product now.
Jay | http://oldos.org
Windows for good. I had bought a retail copy of XP(not cheap!) and installed it on my laptop. However, a bug with XP caused it to crash before I could activate it(hell, before I even knew I had to) and managed to reset the clock to 1980. Usually this would just be a minor annoyance, but it turns out that if you monkey with the clock before you activate XP(and maybe even after, I don't know), they assume you are trying to pirate it and refuse to let you do anything. So after I plunked down $200 for the thing, I had to go call their number(and this was overseas, so there were some language issues to boot) and take a half hour out of my day to prove to them I didn't steal the thing I just bought. It was at that point I realized there are other OSs out there, and I have been Windows free for 4 years and couldn't be happier.
This problem is hardly unique to Vista, and is just going to drive more and more people away from Microsoft. Microsoft still acts like they are the only game in town. They just refuse to accept that the competition has improved significantly from the time XP was released....
Monstar L
Warn me about what? I've been using Vista for 5 months and haven't had a single problem with it. It has all of the functionality of XP, Linux, and OS X, plus a bit more. I've been nothing but satisfied with Vista.
What did you want to tell me?
"Your mouse moved, click here to re-register Windows Zenith. Make sure you have your birth certificate and blood sample ready. Or click cancel to go into RTFM"
This wouldn't happen on a Mac. 'Cos in most of them you can't even get in there to change the graphics card.
-1 not first post
If Vista had actually done all of the things it promised, and didn't do any bullshit like this then it might actually be a decent operating system. Microsoft's viability might have actually been there.
Main differences being vs Linux/Apple is that Apple is a hardware company and could care less if a small fraction of their user base pirates an operating system as long as they are buying hardware and are spreading the good word, and linux makers... want either support contracts or nothing.
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Linux will never do this. Ever. Period.
Hey Microsoft, please keep this going. All the free publicity you are providing Linux and Apple is greatly appreciated.
Ok, I give up, why you?
our support team has attempted to replicate this issue in both arch and xubuntu with no success. our support team requires more information before we will be able to resolve your problem.
thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
No, seriously folks, at some point these stories about Vista have to lead to a stampede away from the product. Just watch for the signs....like the one above.
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
your copy of Windows will stop working with very little notice (three days)
I don't know about anyone else, but if my OS stopped working after three days I'd definitely notice.
Developers: We can use your help.
Just wondering if this is all part of some brilliant and devious plan.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
on the upside, it means no-one can steal your computer and get much use out of it. But seriously, it's not enough that the freaking os will change your locks if you leave your house, but to have it do this? and the Microsoft executives wonder why people use mac.
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world, if men were capable of staying awake long enough.
I installed the latest corporate demanded software and then acrobat started requesting "activation" every few hours. Adobe sent me a patch, but I am still testing it. (Not the reader, this is full blown Adobe Acrobat 8.x professional)
...this minor inconvenience is clearly offset by the massive benefits inherent in a new GUI skin.
If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
For those that haven't yet seen the reason why changing hardware hoses your Vista and are interested in the details, I highly recommend this:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
It's all about the DRM.
Skip Franklin
It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. -- despair.com
When MSFT was touting the The Total Cost of Ownership studies, did anyone ask, if the costs included reacting to unwanted updates? How many times people have spoken about vendor lock and the risk of putting all your eggs in one basket? Trashed everyone as MSFT hate-mongers. It will only get worse. If the revenue stream is threatened MSFT will slip in another forced update make it more and more difficult to switch to alternatives. Because, get this, MSFT can charge you all the way up to your switching costs. The only way it can increase revenue is by increasing your switching cost.
Put yourself in MSFT's shoes and imagine what you would do. A security issue crops up. One team comes back with a solution that does not break all the competitors products. The other team comes up with a solution that incidentally breaks competitors products. Which one will you pick as "critical security update"? MSFT is doing exactly what it should rationally do, given its market share. It is the customers who are irrationally picking MSFT solutions against their own best interests.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Maybe too little sleep, but did anyone else read the title as "Driver Update Can Cause Virus Deactivation"?
oh well... close enough.
"reduced functionality" mode, where you can't do anything but use the web browser for half an hour."
For a percentage of the users being able to use the web browser for half an hour is all they want and need. Not being able to run spyware/malware for that half hour might make this "Desired functionality" mode.
FTA:
"APC has passed all this feedback back to Microsoft, which, to its credit, is taking the situation very seriously and has Vista developers working on a solution."
So it's a bug. A shitty bug, but a bug none-the-less, so all you Vista users can all calm down ok? Wait...
throw new NoSignatureException();
My (preinstalled) copy of Vista never gave me three days' notice before reducing my laptop's functionality (losing the USB mouse). Was that three days thing an added feature of the retail copy?
Yes, I had planned to flee to LinuxMint anyway, but still ...
doc
Isn't it?
Deleted
"What other industry is there that abuses their customers like this?"
Been on a commercial airliner lately? How about 8 hours on the tarmac without airconditioning strapped into a seat that's 2" too narrow with 300-lb companions on either side of you and crying toddlers behind and in front of you. Vista won't seem so bad after you get off that plane.
How about Tobacco? They don't abuse their customers, they just cripple and then kill them.
Meat packing? Widespread E-coli outbreaks. At least Vista doesn't give you gut-wrenching bloody diarrhea (although I hear MS Reasarch is working toward this goal).
I'm just wondering how this could happen. Is it because when you first register Windows it takes a record of all the installed hardware, like a fingerprint?
If so then how does a driver update conflict with the record? Does it somehow change the hardware?
Thanks!
I often wonder how and when Microsoft will lose their stranglehold on the PC market. Because, as Tyler would say, "on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero." No, I don't think anti-piracy strategies like this signal the end of Microsoft but they certainly aren't winning friends with it either.
It only takes a few key missteps and a to shift the market and open the door for a competitor.
how much more inconvenient Microsoft can make using Windows before people have had enough!
Frankly, I don't like the Vista GUI, I detest the activation/reactivation process and the last Vista system I worked on for someone (new Toshiba laptop dual-core with 2G of RAM), it took almost 3 minutes to open up the 'Control Panel' window. It took almost 1 hour, all of it waiting for the machine to catch up, to setup a simple wireless connection!
Fer chrissakes, Microsoft, enough is enough!
5 bucks says that china and microsoft will control most of the world in 20 years. wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that all government machines using vista suddenly shut down when china invades.
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world, if men were capable of staying awake long enough.
I think this is one of the best features MS has put into it's software yet!
i can't think of anything they might do that could top this.
Wasn't this an advertised feature of the OS back before its release? Either that, or it was an EFF warning.
Sure I've heard it somewhere, though.
ilovegeorgebush
It's about time we put you back on your medication, Mt Ballmer.
- Bill
"It has all of the functionality of XP, Linux, and OS X, plus a much, much, much more resource usage".
There, fixed it for ya
ATH++
Or at least is seems like that some times.
At work, I have a laptop (ThinkPad T60) that dual-boots Ubuntu and Vista. Vista is on there only as a way to force myself to get used to it, as I have to support it. Early after Vista's release, an update _from Microsoft_ caused it to be deactivated, had to call MS. (This was later an acknowledged bug that they patched.)
More recently, I used Ghost to go from a 120GB drive down to an 80GB. This too knocked out the activation and the system went into reduced functionality mode. I had to call MS, eventually got someone in India (who I have to admit was very polite and spoke very well.) I had to read off what seemed like a 40 digit code _twice_. Once to the voice-activated system and then again to the person. (No, they apparently couldn't cache this very annoying and labourious bit of data entry.)
I told him why I was having to call and also warned that, as a SysAdmin, I do this kind of thing all of the time and that I was sure I'd be calling again with this exact same Microsoft-imposed problem on this exact same system. I was politely told that this is how the product works and that there was no way around this.
This from an MSDN-issued Vista Business edition. Ugh.
Thankfully, installing Ubuntu on it didn't knock out activation, though I wouldn't put it past MS in the future. If I didn't have to support it at work, I wouldn't touch Vista with a ten foot pole. My hope is that MS eventually tightens the screws enough to push everyone away. So far though, people seem to be much more tolerant of this sort of thing than I would have hoped.
I'm a linux administrator and try to use linux as my desktop. Most of my day is spent in ssh and firefox, with openoffice for docs. However, I still maintain XP on one good computer in my house, cause nero is terrific for burning DVDs. Yes, I know about DeVeDe on Linux, it's OK but not as good.
I bought a fairly powerful computer (AMD64 dual core etc, 4GB RAM) in order to run Vista. To be honest, I was looking for a pirated version of Vista, but after a few months, got discouraged. Now there's some OEM BIOS hack or something, but I haven't tried it. I've worked on a Vista laptop and done support for Window mail connecting to one of my servers, but that's it. And when customers ask me about Vista, I tell them that I don't have a copy running yet. That scares them.
So the point is, if Vista is too hard to pirate, guys like me don't use it. Then the friends/family/clients of guys like me don't use Vista. Thus the current sad state of the Vista market. Seriously, I bet that that there will be some kind of mass VLK/hack leak soon to make it easier to install Vista. And I bet it leaks from someone connected to Redmond.
That you're a wanker ;-)
I've posted about this issue before but was accused of making shit up just to slam Microsoft.
Wrong. I used to be a die-hard Microsoft fan, until they introduced the broken Activation scheme. Even back in the days of Windows XP. driver upgrades or reinstalls could de-activate Windows. This is why I am so adamantly against Activation schemes - at least schemes which do not allow for license transfers. It sucks, too. If delivering a bunch of workstations to a client where the client wants them pre-activated and added to their domain, you have to activate the system. Now, sometimes one will run into incompatibilities and have to upgrade a wireless driver or video driver (or add additional hardware - and yes, I've even seen USB device driver upgrades trigger deactivation) and if you've got the OEM version, guess what? You need to wait on hold with Microsoft to re-activate the system.
Granted, it doesn't happen often. It does have a knack of happening at exactly the wrong time.
Microsoft: you own the market. Drop the activation scheme. Also, where XP is nearing end of life, isn't it time to follow through with your promise to release a patch which will eliminate the need to activate Windows XP? I mean, Vista has been out for nearly a year now. . .
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Just one more reason why I've done the same thing I did to windows millenium. I told all of my non-techie friends that if they buy Vista, they are on their own...
I will dive into your windows xp registry to rip bonzai buddy out, help you with your BeOS install, and sit there recompiling your linux kernel fifteen times for a beer... If you come to me with a Vista machine, I'm just going to send you away with a gutsy gibbon cd to remove the vista infection.
So far, everyone that depends on my help has heeded my advice, and bought machines from vendors offering XP.
Put simply, your copy of Windows will stop working with very little notice (three days) and your PC will go into "reduced functionality" mode...
Would this be a bad time to mention that Leopard has 300 new features?
Or that you don't even have a serial number to enter, much less activation concerns?
Windows guys, if you are tired of Mac "fanbois" kicking you in the rear stop issuing us steel-toed boots and bending over with a big target taped to your posterior!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They're warning you about the fanboy fight that's coming in 3... 2... 1... go! oh, that was ugly... guess you didn't get the warning in time...
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
He says it was grueling, but in the article he says that reactivation "was easy enough" - doesn't sound like weeks of "troubleshooting", sounds like someone at MS just clarified what qualifies as a deactivation trigger. I have nothing against the activation - the only problem that I have is that MS claimed that it was because they were losing money to piracy. If that's true, activation should have reduced the cost of the software but it's still the same price as previous, non protected windows OS's sold for.
www.wildpad.com
You did this Pre-Dapper when things weren't ready for prime-time, even admitted by the community. Ubuntu comes with (from the license, and any time you log in) NO WARRANTY.
Stop complaining about this endlessly.
Its getting old.
My Babylon
Microsoft has been doing this for years with XP. Now, it seems the company has taken it to the next level with Vista and make it more annoying. Activation is really just a nuisance, but one that illustrates the relationship MS has with its customer. Namely, everyone is a pirate and must be controlled and customers start to believe it themselves! At my school, I need to rebuild the XP Pro on a school computer but I don't have the media. I call the schools IT department and they told me that Microsoft has told them that too many computers have the same license and are hesitant to give me the media. However, the computer came with Windows XP Pro and has a sticker right on the side. Should it really matter under what license the OS is installed? When a company treats you like a criminal and constricts your productivity with draconian policies, its is time to look for an alternative. Let's hope you are lucky enough to not need Windows.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Windows apologists are always blaming any problems on users not keeping their drivers updated.
I'll be interested to see how they deflect criticism for this problem.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Please stop dropping these weak FSF taglines. This "defectivebydesign" crap. Bitching about Microsoft will not make the linux market seem more valid to anyone- you are PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. Everyone thinks you're nuts, except other FSF idiots-- who are not using Vista. The primary motivator behind recent success in linux is diversion from the FSF lunatic side of things and embracing of mac/windows-based interface concepts with usability and style first approach!
If you'd stop being a bunch of obnoxious sheep, it will be easier for Shuttleworth to make linux go from "geekier" to "easier". Customers don't want to hear activist crap, they want a friendly and approachable image. Something firm and corporate. Safe.
Does anyone expect this trend to get better? Ever? MS continues to wrest control of machines running Windows away from their owners, period. And, as usual, those who run a pirated version will be unaffected by this and the only people who will endure the hassle will be those with legit licenses who play by the rules. Another couple of generations of PC hardware and Trusted Computing modules will shut down most pirates for good, leaving no choice but to run something like Linux in order to retain full control over their machines.
"-or warned you to to have a recovery CD or separate high speed internet connection and CD burner read, because somehow the Ubuntu install/live CD (cause they're they same right? except when you ask for help on the forums) can't fill the role of a recovery CD"
They spent two releases working on the installer as part of making Ubuntu ready for prime time and already fixed that situation, the default installer is now a livecd that functions as a recovery cd. So go away.
Just because you have no commons sense in having a backup when doing something like messing with the MBR of your system isn't their fault. STOP RETREADING TOPICS.
My Babylon
I was tempted to pick up a Mac last fall. I enjoyed using the one at work and much of what I do on the computer doesn't involve gaming. After hearing about the problems with Vista, I went through with the purchase.
For a couple months, I wondered if it really was the right thing to do. Now, however, I'm pretty much convinced that it was. I installed my old copy of Windows XP on it using Bootcamp so I can play Orange Box and Oblivion and it works quite well. For everything else, OSX just works.
I'm really surprised at how nice the Mac's default drivers are. My new printer was a snap to set up and network with the other mac in the house. My Logitech gaming mouse just worked the moment I plugged it in. The same can't be said of XP. It really isn't a bad alternative for those who want to try something different and easy to use.
http://wubi-installer.org/
Just try it.
Deleted
There have been a few times when I've encountered this with XP, specifically when setting up PCs at work. I would usually install the chipset then NIC, activate then install the rest of the drivers. A little over a year ago this wasn't good enough; if I installed the rest of the drivers (usually video, sound, maybe wifi and/or a modem) I'd be told that there were 'too many changes made and Windows needed to be re-activated'.
I WAS ONLY INSTALLING F'ING DRIVERS!!! Yeah, maybe I'm dumb for activating before having loaded all the drivers, but damn, it was never a problem for the five years XP was out previously...
My WinXP became "deactivated" after I de-installed the video card driver. This "feature" is hardly limited to Vista, I'm afraid.
Really? When you can get Vista, with or without Aero, to do what Compiz Fusion can, without upgrading my PC, then I'll buy that line. Until then, the "but more" line rings somewhat hollow...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
If you ask too many questions of the moron behind they counter- they call the police to have you zapped.
This is what Microsoft has to do to prevent piracy. So just deal with it.
There's nothing to pirate, it's already free!
Right, because I bought a computer to NOT use its available resources. I want them to sit there idle.
MSFT is working so hard to stop people from pirating their software ??? WTF. How did MSFT get to be so damned big and financially well off before they stopped the pirates?
It seems to me that the real reason for the problems with Vista are not because MSFT needs to protect their product with DRM, but that they need to protect the **AA's products. MSFT seemed to be doing very well for itself before implementing DRM. How is it that they now need that DRM to stay in business?
This is what worries me. MSFT seems to be looking out for the interests of the **AA, not just themselves. ( putting tinfoil hat on ) If they are looking out for the **AA, you can bet your last dollar that they are also looking out for the interests of Fascist governments. I'm not just trying to bash MSFT, but they are/were the richest and biggest software company in the world BEFORE they decided to install DRM, so what is the point of the DRM? Do you REALLY want to use a product that does that?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
to VOLUNTEERS trying despite his abuse to help him:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=122473
My Babylon
I've installed 3-CPUS on my box & I have installed 5-6 diff video drivers not once has it deactivated.
The problem with using device drivers as the basis for activation information is that a change in the driver model which has the result of changing the way that the hardware information is reported back to Windows can be enough to register as a physical hardware change.
How could MS not know that would happen? It's like they just got into the computer business last year, but they act like it sometimes.
What a headache for admins. I just can't believe companies take this kind of treatment from a vendor when there are really good alternatives available.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
You know, Microsoft isn't the only one annoying its customers with stupid anti-piracy "solutions." In fact, many companies are worse.
Mastercam requires a "HARDWARE KEY." I'm serious. Which plugs into your friggin' PARALLEL PORT. What if you don't have one!? What if you're using a LAPTOP? Of course, hacking around it is about as difficult as downloading a 1k crack. And what if I lose it or it breaks?
My University has the Education Version of Solidworks. Great software, but our IT department changed around our network a little, and now all the workstations can't connect to the "activation server," which has to be on the same subnet and have its IP hardcoded in. Now the entire campus's machines need to be reinstalled to a new server. Tell me that ain't ANNOYING. And I can tell you the activation server ain't easy to get going. Can you imagine a dozen engineers not being able to do anything over one IP address change?
Its only broken for morons who click on any old exe from the internet and dont run good anti virus/ad aware programs. All you window haters are just lucky all the clueless windows idiots are not using Linux. XP WORKS just fine for many many people.
I upgraded my video card just fine and I have Windows Vista. So I don't really know what everyone is talking about. If it happens in certain situations then its not a huge deal. Sometimes software, even linux, has bugs. Microsoft merely decides to protect its investment with a strong software verification. Big Deal, Linux fan boys cry to much and don't look at things from more then one angle.
It's this horseshit of activation that's kept me off XP, and why I won't even consider Vista (along with bloat, DRM, etc.)
With Win2k, there's one serial number and it works (when I reinstall it.) I can change my entire motherboard, or even system and not have to worry about having to beg and try to convince MS for another number which I shouldn't. They're activation makes ME look like I'm guilty until proven innocent.
Just wait till ReactOS comes out and gives them some compitition. Then I'll be on Debian 4 and ReactOS (VM)
- Kc
"There are sure to be "pirated" versions of Vista, but you can't trust them. The usual scammers will be uploading trojaned versions that will log your keystrokes for credit card accounts and do other evil things. Ultimately, this is a problem with all non free software, you have no way to verify correct operation and must trust the owner. "
Hahhahahahhahahahahaahha
ahhahaahahahahahahahah ahahahhahahahahahahahahahha
hahahahahahahhahahahahah
hahahahaha
Sorry the stupidity of your comment twitter is beyond just how retarded you are.
The hacks can be used on your standard store bought copies of Vista that will make your Vista completely unable to deactivate.
They dont even NEED a software hack, just some competence with a Hex editor and a image of your system BIOS. (of course you can use a software Bios hack - it works, no trojans here)
You dont even NEED a copy from any P2P, warez site as long as you have access to an original CD you dolt.. Now shut up and go back to that fantansy land you live in you prick, your friends miss you.
Well, as of a few minutes ago, the patch failed. Back to the drawing board. Though in this case, I may take the VPN software off instead of Acrobat. See the VPN software is new and still hasn't been shaken out at our location. Acrobat I need to do my job....
I distinctly remember that the saying goes:
"fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
Luv,
Bush
"I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan
"There's no denying that Windows Activation has a serious image problem. Not only is it inconvenient and cumbersome, but it creates a very strong impression in the user's mind that Microsoft doesn't really want to give you the software you paid for."
Entering a serial number is inconvenient and cumbersome?
Vista will give you 30 days to activate after the installation - you don't need to supply the serial number right away. This also allows you to update all your drivers before you get going. That's actually way more convenient than the XP experience. As far as hardware changes go - it's only slightly more time consuming than the online version of the activation and requires a quick 5 minute phone call. I've had far worse experiences calling other major manufactures. The guy on the phone was helpful and it took 5 minutes. So as far as feeling that MS doesn't want to give me the software I paid for I'd say that is inaccurate.
Realistically, if you sell the most used OS in the world do you think that you are going to just trust everyone to properly license their product?
Activation is not something limited to windows as well - there are a number of other products that use this technique for curbing piracy.
Running outlook plus a web browser should NOT use 86% of my 1gig of memory on my laptop. I get what you are saying about idle resources but generic computer usage should never exceed 25%. The remaining 75% should only get touched when rendering video, composing music, creating CAD etc.
According to the US courts, copyright infringement is not stealing, so it is not accurate to say "stole an unlocked version."
Copyright infringement isn't even analogous to stealing. Calling it stealing only seems to make sense because of a popular confusion of ill-fitting metaphors.
I don't care if I am fighting a losing battle by pointing this out. It is correct, and it is important, so I will keep pointing it out.
I read the comments and can't believe nobody linked to the patch!
Of course, maybve somebody will by the time this comment actually gets posted, I'm not logged on so I'm getting the slowdown cowboys REAL BAD, it takes a fucking HOUR before I can post. I guess I should hunt down my password or just make a new account...
=(
-mcgrew
On a lighter (and completely off-topic) note, this is Springfield, stranger than the cartoon Springfield. Pawnee is a couple of miles south, the first exit on I-55. Enjoy!)
URL PLS!!
and your PC will go into "reduced functionality" mode, where you can't do anything but use the web browser for half an hour
And how is this different from regular Vista?
That has to be the most stupid of all. How paranoid and/or greedy do you have to be to think that you're losing PROFIT if a user can only use his/her web browser, exactly!?
I mean, 30 minutes is such a short time that if something would go wrong with the activation, you don't even necessarily have time to diagnose the problem before the browser risk shutting down.
Wow.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Then it's a perfect bet. You only have to pay up if the money is worthless.
This is a problem with Vista, but definitely nothing new. Furthermore, the quote from TFA was taken a bit out of context to demonize Microsoft more (speaking of, anyone speaking somewhat in defence of Microsoft is getting hammered. Who gave the monkeys mod points?). This is nothing more than a bug, and he spent most of the article basically saying "this sucks, but it's theoretically necessary and Microsoft was helpful". Where's the problem?
Microsoft's DRM is hopelessly overmatched, and has serious problems with it, and believe me when I say I"m NO Microsoft apologist. However, this is just another excuse for Microsoft bashing, and anyone who bothered to RTFA saw the real issue.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
Yes, and then again, no. Remember, MS is a convicted monopolist, and has been operating outside the scope of the law in some very disturbing ways for quite a while. Sure, they might be doing so with a nod and a wink from the current not-so-benevolent US administration, but an awful lot of Microsoft activity has been deemed by US (and other) courts to be illegal. And they still do it.
Mind you, I'm not saying that this makes it okay to infringe their copyright. I'm simply pointing out that neither party here quite has the moral high ground. Though in the specific case of the GGP poster, I must ask if anyone lawyerly out there can explain to us if "pirating" a copy of XP after paying for one could possibly count as acquiring a fair-use copy? Thinking it through myself, I'd imagine that the DMCA probably gets in the way. But ethically speaking, this is a grayer area. The GGP poster has already paid MS for their copy of XP, so provided they aren't distributing the cracked copy, it could conceivably be within their ethical, as opposed to legal, rights to get and use an altered copy that doesn't include all the crap- and nag-ware. Hmm...
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Exactly. There is no reason why Vista with or without Aero should be as slow as it is. I'm dual booting Vista (came preinstalled) and Mandriva on a laptop with 512 MB RAM, 1.6 GHz Celeron, and Intel GMA 650. Compiz Fusion runs extremely quick and flawlessly. Vista won't even run Aero, and running without Aero is extremely show, so I wouldn't even want to venture into running Aero. There's no reason why adding a 3D desktop should make your machine so much slower, and there's no reason why Vista shouldn't be faster.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
At some point after I installed vista, my copy switched from a 64-bit install to a 32-bit one - suddenly disallowing me to run 64-bit programs.
In my case a hard drive replacement (by a hard drive of SAME size and SAME brand) due to a defunct drive, and 512MB increase in system memory was enough to deactivate Vista.
My final verdict on Vista is: The biggest pile of crap ever released by a company by any name and size. It outranks SCO, NotWell NotThere, Lotion Goats and all others combined by orders of magnitude.
If I stay with Windows, I'll be forced, sooner or later, to get Vista. Unless people wise up and stop taking it in the butt. But I'm not holding out for that, so I am ever more seriously considering.... getting a Macbook. I just noticed they give a cool discount to students (plus an iPod Nano, which isn't bad). I've been using Linux for 10 years already, so I am too aware of the things it can't do for me, yet, but a Mac seems to fit the bill properly.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Toshiba has some laptops that haven't any XP drivers.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. - George Orwell
Really, why should we buy this crap? Boycott hardware to lower OEM licence sales, boycott upgrading, boycott retail and so on. Get your act together. Stop giving them your money. Also, if you are a shareholder, VOTE in every corporate action. I do and every time I vote them off the Board, one day it will happen, I try to do my bit to speed it along :)
http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
I got Autoblog and /. next to each other on my Firefox bookmarks bar, so you can imagine how confused I was to read this title and think I was scanning the Autoblog feeds.
People are going to learn to cope with this "feature" once XP goes away.
Most likely, everyone will just tape the Vista serial number to the front of the machine... which means that thieves need only look at the front of machines to steal someone else's Vista. Progress!
I just bought a laptop with Vista and I need to upgrade it to XP. The one showstopper I'm having is that I can't find graphics drivers for it's NVidia 7150M chipset. Also annoying is the lack of network drivers, but at least I have the Broadcom wireless going so I at least have connectivity for the moment. Any suggestions on where I might find this stuff, ideally links right to it? Yes, I've searched hp.com (it's a Compaq V6620US) and nvidia.com but I just can't find them.
Ironically, everything works perfectly with the Gutsy Gibbon bootable CD. It's only with Windows that I have driver issues.
Luckily I haven't had to use Vista yet, nor from the horror stories do I want to use it. But it is just getting sad when the software companies have to make a sandbox for people and then put a babysitter beside that sends you to bed if you do anything that the babysitter doesn't like. If your toys don't work or play nice in the sand box then they aren't allowed in the sandbox.
RTFA. It took more than that.
What about adding Virtual devices? I use VMWare and a VPN client that add virtual network drivers. I use Daemon Tools that adds a virtual SCSI driver. If I keep using software like this, will I end up having to re-activate Vista somewhere down the line?
Did you miss the part of the article where its clearly stated, he could not reactive it without calling MS support to get a new code? Happened to my wife with XP, what a freeking pain.
Going on means going far
Going far means returning
When I as a customer have to pay for the OS, and then have to put in my own time at $xy per hour to "fix" the OS, when routine actions occur, as described elsewhere.
Top management decisions at MS are loading up their legitimate customers with extra work, lost income and frustration. Frustration is what doomed T-Mobile's relationship with me, and I dumped them in spite of their cancellation fee (reduce my "plan" and they automatically tack on another 2 year minimum period before I could cancel for free - that is the definition of CRAP.).
Not all the frustrations come from DRM. For heaven's sake, Registry glitches and other things that don't or stop working are a pain in XP. My WiFi on XP simply disappeared as an option in the Networking section. That has NEVER happened on my Macs.
If I ever get a chance to run SolidWorks on something other than Windows, I'll be one of the first to jump ship from Microsoft...forever.
I installed a system with a PATA cdrom on a modern ASUS board.. believe it was one of the P5B's.. Got through windows install, didn't bother installing the JMicron PATA driver because it wasn't strictly needed.
Activated XP with no problem.
Went back and put the JMicron driver in, XP came up with a 'must activate' dialog.. had to call it in on the phone to get it activated.
In the interest of science, I repeated the process with another machine I was building, but didn't call it in. Didn't need the machine for about 4-5 months. When I went back to the machine and turned it on months later, it came up with the must activate part, which it was able to do online.. 120 day timeout on activation had expired so I didn't need a phone monkey.
Yet another reason to stick with XP. Like most people here, I constantly upgrade my computer. Every few months I tinker with something or other. Maybe adding some RAM... maybe upgrading the video card ... maybe swapping in an ethernet card just to see if it is functional...
Maybe this article is just FUD, but it still makes me glad that I have 3 or 4 XP install disks sitting around my house.
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
technically, we'd be paying in yen.
To live without killing is a thought which could electrify the world, if men were capable of staying awake long enough.
What did you want to tell me?
Get back to work, Microsoftie!
It has all of the functionality of XP, Linux, and OS X, plus a bit more.
I seriously doubt that. Maybe XP, but for the other two? No way. Or does it come with several thousand well working application packages?
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I am the lead programmer at a small software company. We have struggled for months to get our installer working in Vista. Finally, we think we have it, but it has been a headache for so long.
Now, we just flat-out tell our customers "Don't buy Windows Vista!".
Yeah, our software and installer finally play nice with Vista, but Vista just creates too many headaches for no visible benefits.
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
"As for Dell: most people forget that the recovery CDs from Dell/HP/Fujitsu do not contain the crapware that is preinstalled."
Bullshit. As a former HP Laptop technician, when we use a recovery disc, recovery partition, or GHOST/PRISM the image from our servers onto the laptop, you get all the crapware installed. FACTORY CONDITION.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Friggin kernel panic! (had to use a different comp to look at the logs)
FRA: STFU GTFO
is to hack the product YOU BOUGHT so that you can use it properly.
If MS doesn't like it, they can try not selling their software. They have choices.
This would never happen with Linux. There just aren't any drivers.
...that treats you like a thief?
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
that's what I would call it... ;)
Are you asking for bug fixes in a Linux kernel from 6 years ago? Nope, And Linus wouldn't give release them anyway. But I don't hear anyone yelling at about that.....
Just remember - if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
And I've had 0 activation problems. It runs smooth, and I don't want to go back. I also do plenty of development on it and no snags so far. I think most people forget that Vista is a sleeper OS. A good deal of things got updated/improved, but no one will notice them because they are not being used. When you create software on this kind of scale, you can't just make changes. You have to slowly incorporate them to build a supported base and then you introduce the products. Most people on here forget the size of the company and the software. Linux is no comparison because it's all dislocated development. Try taking all the major componenents in any linux distribution, move the developers into 1 location. Now try to run a business off of that.
Anyone else get an image of Jobs kicking Gates into a hole and screaming, "This is usability!!"?
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
What is this "reactivation" you speak of when installing memory or a new video card or updating a driver?
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Pleasing Mr. Twitters Vista, makes even more SUPER (teh gumimg) lists of teh baddies of M$$$ WindozeSS Vista-- (
I agree with teh dissassters. Gets on your phonee and call the FRU SOFTWEARE FUNDAZZION and pays them the moneys for TEH VISTA IS BADD so hay can end thus slavery. twitter fucks that shit rape. shit fuck rape? fuck that shit, rape. shit tit fuck ass, cock rape shit!!1!
thanks for twiTters.
The storm worm mutates every half hour.
Good luck catching that with an AV scanner.
MOD PARENT UP. Quote: "Any substantial commercial XP application that has been around for any significant amount of time will almost certainly run into problems under Vista."
Follow the money. Microsoft apparently wants you to pay, and pay, and pay again. Big commercial software companies will advertise Vista if it is necessary to buy a new version of their software to use with Vista.
Apparently to Microsoft the user is not the customer. Microsoft apparently considers the user just a dog on a leash.
I suppose the constant negative stories about Microsoft make it difficult for Microsoft to hire the really good programmers. If that is true, expect more unfinished products with poor characteristics in the future.
People think that Microsoft is a software company that is routinely abusive. But maybe it isn't. Maybe Microsoft is an abuse company that uses software as a means of delivering abuse. If you look at it that way, Microsoft is excellent at what it does.
We seem to live in a society dominated by abusers. For another example, Cheney and Bush, who with their friends and family have a long history of oil and weapons investing, are allowed the conflict of interest of deciding to have wars to get control of oil supply. The result is that the value of your money is falling. Rich people who are heavily invested in companies that can raise prices want inflation partly because inflation causes the value of the money they pay employees to drop.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/40-Million-Windows-Vistas-Sold-Bill-Gates-Mocks-Apple-54811.shtml
Ridiculously small number (compared to 40 mil.) multiplied by 2 is still a ridiculously small number.
And that is not counting all the people that pirate it. Remember, only 224 Chinese BOUGHT Vista.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Vista is more compatible with Windows 95 apps than with Windows XP applications.
Registry reflections, file system reflections, DLL reflections/manifests (and other manifestations) are just a tip of the ice-berg. Instead of locking down an administrative account and using a user to run things that then sudo (or whatever) to Admin to install, Windows' admin doesn't have admin rights - you have to jumps hoops though the UAC (or whatever it is called).
If you ever want to run Custom Actions in an MSI installer that was created with Visual Studio 2005, sorry, you are *out of luck*. The new flags to allow admin custom actions are not supported by VS2005 even with Vista update for it. You have to dick around the MSI files with Orca.
And let's not forget the last 3 days of me running around the forums trying to figure out why a MS supplied runtime does not install with their own installer on Vista. Turns out some "security" update or SDK update or whatever, broke the installers...
Oh, but the Windows 95 apps run fine. The designed for XP or 2000, with people running the apps as normal users in mind type of applications, are the ones that are fscked up.
The hellish experience of Vista is even worse for developers (Visual Studio was not even recommended to be run on Vista by Microsoft until earlier this year with SP1 and that SP1 broke the compiler as we see with Qt4).
Or the ability to update every single program installed on your machine with a few clicks?
According to Apple, you can see your photos and movies and listen to your music WITHOUT EVEN OPENING the files!!! :) That's something!
Bite my shiny metal... oops... Nevermind!
...that you had to buy to run with the Leopards?
Or are you one of those Apple users that use Apple JUST because they don't know what to do with their money?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
What other industry is there that abuses their customers like this? I feel like I'm being accused of criminal activity from the first second I install a MS product now. Prisons?
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
The "Documents and Settings" folder exists on Vista - sort of, you just don't see it in the root of the drive, but it's there. Try typing it in the address bar. Microsoft appears to have setup a "symlink" of sorts on windows so it points to the "Users" directory.
With Ubuntu releasing every 6 months and Windows releasing every 7 years, I am guessing that Ubuntu will catch and overtake Microsoft before the next release of Windows. After all, that's another 12 versions if you count Feisty Fawn and Gutsy Gibbon as the first 2. Ubuntu will be on Supreme Serpent or something. By then, clearly it will have surpassed Windows. How could it not? (Gutsy is amazingly close right now.)
It's just a matter of time before companies start asking their custom software providers for Linux versions. Once that happens (and the companies comply) it's all over for Microsoft, because companies will love to save millions on OS licenses. And with all Windows development going to .NET and with the maturity of Mono, switching will become very easy for the custom software provider. Heck, I have fairly advanced Windows apps that compile on Mono with less than 10 changes right now. It takes about 30 minutes tops for many well-behaved apps.
Microsoft has already lost in my opinion (unless they release a non-crippled successor to Vista within a year or two), it's only a matter of time.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
A complete solution is almost at hand. Get a Mac with Leopard, and go into "enhanced functionality mode" permanently, without the OS manufacturer screwing with your life.
Except for Apple's iTunes store, of course, which for the most part is as DRM-infested as Vista is.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
and concentrate on saving its ass in the mobile phone market before Linux and OSX eats it's lunch there to.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Luckily even the government isn't jumping on the Vista bandwagon to hell. And it isn't even just a few departments like the ones listed in the article.
just bought the bastard for my grandma and it WILL NOT remove vista no matter how hard I try. When I boot off the Windows XP CD it says 'cannot detect hard drive'.. How can I remove vista!??!?! is it even possible? Its like AIDS from an unwashed hooked.
... to find an activation crack on the web. ;)
*ducks*
Parallels (on the Mac) will allow you to run a bootcamp partition as a virtual machine. This is handy when you don't want to reboot to hit Vista. Sadly, Vista sees this as s totally different machine and requests reactivation.
From XP??? I changed hardware before only to find that I had to reactivate Winblows, only to find it wouldn't.
Oh, well.
Seems like the guy arguing that it's really no hassle at all a week or two ago wasn't really right.
Surprise, surprise.
Face it, people: when software manufacturers do this kind of thing, the only reasonable option is to pirate their software (if you really have to use it). Because you not only pay premium money otherwise, but have to keep on proving you'd paid.
Just because you paid, you are a suspect for "stealing".
I know inertia is one of the most powerful forces in the universe, but this model is ridiculous... it has to break sometime.
(Then again, I say that about religion as well, and yet...)
Ignore this signature. By order.
I'm really sad to say it but most non-computer geeks I know don't want Vista but they also don't know they can still get a computer without it. Even after I tell them, they still can't figure it out on Dell's website. Many of them end up a circuit city buy crappy machines with vista. The machine they bought was 4 times faster than his old machine and still runs slower.
Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
Because in Microsoft's eyes, you are damed guilty before being innocent. RIAA gets away with it and now M$ is discovering how far they can go before people say Hasta La Vista baby.
Especially if your running Ubuntu or FC7.
I even dumped SUSE, being in bed with the devil can only get you burned. And the best part about FLOSS, is you will always have competitive choices.
Warning! Warning! You have three days to activate Vista or it will be in reduced functionality mode.
WTF? The video card was the first hardware change in six months. And WTF is with the three day warning when I can run Vista as a non-registered user for weeks??
*Fine* I click on the activation icon and get told my license is already in use so I have to do the telephone activation.
I hate the telephone activation. First you have to phone them up and type in the 46 number sequence (WTF, am I arming an ICBM here?) then they always tell you that you'll have to talk to a representative who asks you for the 46 number sequence again since the last machine just went and chucked out the one you just spent ten minutes reading into the phone. Then you have to type in a different 46 digit ICBM arming code to use the OS you already paid money for. The call cost $5 on my friend's pay-as-you-go cell phone.
Hey, Microsoft! I paid $300 for your POS OS. If I had pirated it I would have none of this bullcrap but no, I had to be an honest customer and this is my reward. Do you wonder people hate you?
And this is caused by driver updating yet. The one thing a Vista user has no choice but to do is update all multimedia drivers every few weeks as new releases come out to fix the previous releases problems with Vista.
Amazing business model there, Lou. You guys think of this by yourselves, did you?
"People don't (well, shouldn't) click on random links these days"
Since when? I think that's mostly Internet Explorer users. For everybody else, the whole point of the internet is to click on random links.
Loosen up a bit and enjoy the internet.
Yeah, yeah, I know, supposedly they can just install Vista and everything will work great, no problem. That's all well and good, except it isn't the truth. Some people can use Vista with no problem. Some people can install and use Vista, but it will bring some pain as they work around learning a new system and dealing with reactivation support and broken applications. And then some people just can't use Vista because something about the work they're doing requires usable applications.
How could MS not know that would happen? It's like they just got into the computer business last year, but they act like it sometimes.
They did know and did it anyways.
The whole idea is to develop a virtual business in supporting home users, much like corporations do today with M$ products. The unreliability means more support, more support means more fanboys. More fanboys mean more profit. When this bubble breaks, it will be so good to watch. Mind you, I am not looking forward to all the McWindows types saying they used xNIX all along.
If you don't like it, try Ubuntu, Fedora, Red Hat, SUSE or others. Noting is "forcing" the consumer to bend over and take this abuse. The world will still turn when M$ closes it's doors for the last time.
----------------
When Ballmer throws chairs he breaks Windows
Move over Windows, there is now X-Windows
Just like to know who pays the developers for all the extra work Vista causes?
Assumably, the cost ultimately goes back to the consumer somehow.
I use Win2K and Office 97. I was at my bank this morning (a big multi-state operation), I noticed they still used W2K. WFM and my bank too.
Remember the old computer industry maxim: "Pioneers get arrows in their backs; Settlers reap the harvests."
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
And now it is obvious why everyone has this perception of "Vista == worst OS ever." When people try to say that they are having a good experience with it, they are silenced by the moderators.
Gotta love free speech.
Actually, it would probably be all chinese government machines using vista suddenly shut down when microsoft invades china.
James Bannan (the author of the referenced article) is normally quite pro-Microsoft in his pieces in APC Magazine. That he is coming out in this article with this level of criticism makes me feel that he has become quite frustrated by at least one of: (1) the Vista/XP activation issue, (2) the activation process, (3) the Microsoft response. That's quite apart from the process of 'fixing' his system that he has described. Also, being a prominent and normally pro-M$ writer has probably been of great assistance; but, what of the 'normal' M$ user? James Bannan now has an insight!
Looking at space, radio, science and computing from a 'down-under' amateur enthusiast perspective.
You mean, you actually switched out the video card and did NOT reinstall Windows? While you should be able to do this, in XP it was so cumbersome and lead to so many little bugs here and there that it was just easier to reinstall the OS or do a repair install. I imagine the same thing is true with Vista. I was dual booting XP and Vista, then upgraded Video Card, motherboard, processor, and memory. So many driver issues, that instead of trying to fix everything, I just did a repair install. Windows XP and Vista both activated just fine. Of course, your license agreement may vary, affecting your ability to activate online. If so, just call the 800 number, let Microsoft know you upgraded your software and need reactivation, and they will give you an activation code over the phone.
I mean, OMG, you have to reinstall and reactivate after doing a major hardware change to your computer? This is nothing new. You are in reduced functionaliy mode for half an hour? I am actually surprised that you were able to run Windows for that long without it bluescreening on you after the upgrade because of some driver conflict.
This has been an issue since Windows '95. People have dealt with this for 12 years. You upgrade your hardware, you reinstall your Microsoft OS or spend hours or days trying to "fix" issues that may arise. Get over it, reinstall and reactivate.
About two weeks ago I installed a NIC driver update off of windows update. Upon reboot I had to reactivate my install.
I remember installing programs on an operating system where everything went into it's own directory. If you wanted to find any part of it, look in it's folder. If you wanted to uninstall it, just delete the folder. It was simple and made sense. Oh yeah, it was called DOS. Not that I want to go back there, but some things have not improved (IMHO) as time progressed.
I can understand that too many actual hardware changes would pop up an activation request. But updating the driver is equivalent to new hardware? Come on, that's B.S. Surely Windows can check if hardware has changed based on PCI vendor/device IDs and perhaps serial numbers such as Mac addresses, but does it need the particular device driver to do that? How would a driver version change those hardware IDs? I'd assume that Windows defines a standard way to present that information if it does ask the driver to retrieve it, which should not change from one driver revision to the next. I give a big thumbs down to driver version being part of the "system ID" for activation checks. Sorry, but that's pretty stupid.
Who needs Vista for this? They already had this feature rolled out in Windows XP. I was able to unexpectedly deactivate a valid XP install by updating my ATI drivers. I bet it's a little slicker in Vista, but I'm a bit old school. All kidding aside, the real bitch was I could not even re-activate it over the phone! I had an Athlon 64 computer and I took advantage of the Windows XP x64 upgrade special they offered a while ago. I had the x64 media and key, but was sitting on the actual install until some driver issues were taken care of. MS support insisted my XP Pro 32-bit key was an x64 one. After trying to explain my situation and the upgrade path to support for over an hour, I gave up. It forced an upgrade to a product that wasn't quite ready for daily use. My bad for giving them my money. I know. I take full responsibility.
Leopard should run fine on lots of older macs, including an old G5 desktop I've had for years, and I'll also fudge a little and load it on a 667MHz G4 laptop I have (bypassing the system requirements a bit) that's about seven years old now. I have no plans to buy any new macs for a while because they go for years and years...
How many seven year old laptops can run Vista again? How many TWO year old laptops can realistically run Vista?
I guess people with no previous Mac experience keep forgetting that each successive OS X release has made old hardware feel faster... and reports seem to say Leopard at least stays even with Tiger in performance on the same hardware (with some things being faster from optimization).
Funny that a Vista user would come in and tape a second target to their rear. Hardware requirements indeed!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Much more original than the lame iSparta joke I keep seeing over and over.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
On my vista x64 box, I changed from the nForce4 drivers that came with vista to the ones from nVidia. That alone, with no hardware changes, forced a re-validation. I had to sit on hold with someone from India until they finally issued me a new key. Lots of fun.
"wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that all government machines using vista suddenly shut down when china invades."
US military and civilian government effectiveness would skyrocket if the Giant Email Pump were turned off. It's amazing the useful stuff people find to do when the network goes down.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Where I work, we've switched all our computers to Macs, even our Solidworks user use it on Mac Pros with Windows installed under Bootcamp. I have asked, and I'm not the only one, when Thompson/Solidworks is planning on releasing a Mac version. The rep said they aren't right now, but they are looking at officially recognizing Parallels with its 3D acceleration. However, the more people that ask, the bigger the chances are that they will make a Mac version. There's a whole load of design and engineering agencies that would love to drop Windows but can't because of the toolchain. Do your bit: ask!
I've updated countless drivers for graphics cards and other devices on Vista. Not once have I had any issue. I wonder if this is caused by certain graphics cards. Or prehaps certain 3rd party drivers not provided directly from Nvidia or ATI? I'm using a Nvidia 8800 GTS 640mb and have only used fully released drivers (no beta drivers). Could it possibly be the Vista flavor? IE: premium, ultimate etc.
~Vexed and loving it!
NT was out before 98. It was also focused differently.
3.5 shipped in 94 for crying uot.oud.
MS has enough problems. There is no need to make some up.
Win 2000 was the best OS they have released to date.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Actually from his little report this flags up an issue; one of quality assurance on driver software.
In order to get around spurious reactivation, drivers should report identity data the same way Microsoft's do - one would have thought this was part of the WHQL testing regime but apparently not.
But, if the hardware change reporting is meant to trigger it, then hardware should not be seen to change - by updating the Intel drivers, why should it change the unique hardware reporting? If it is pushing out PCI chipset IDs, low-level configuration of your drives etc. in a pretty package to the Activation system for checking, then why would something like a driver update like that make such a big deal?
I remember updating the firmware on my DVD burners a couple of times (I did have 3 DVD burners..) and it causing XP to want to reactivate the moment I plugged my graphics card in back from the repair shop. The nice girl on the phone said it was basically because I had installed too many drives; yeah, and Windows spent 10 minutes redetecting them on boot, too. But updating the drive firmware and changing the VERSION NUMBER shouldn't be an activation trigger. Some manufacturers put the version number of the drive in the "model" field and not the "version" field, which would do that, but not these guys.. it is simply overzealous checking.
But we are not talking about updating something low level in the drives or connected peripherals, just the Intel driver for RAID.. so what changed here?
So, is this a "Activation Sucks!!" issue or a "Windows Hardware Quality Labs are a bunch of fucking fakers!?" issue?
I call the latter. Requiring product activation is something you have to do these days with software. Oh well, live with it. If it's not Windows itself, it's Adobe CS3 or CorelDraw or whatever else. Microsoft are not the only culprit here on activation problems, and the problems are not down to the activation concept, but some weird driver identifier reporting system. If Microsoft are so big on driver signing and code quality, they should really be fixing this as a principle of being able to run a signed, managed system with no bluescreening or weird-behaving drivers - not necessarily on the principle of "well having users call a 1-800 number and spend 2 minutes typing in a number 3 times during product lifetime" which is pretty moot at the end of the day.
...of the famous "driver update may kill your Windows" theme.
Which I btw. last saw two days ago after updating a Bluetooth driver on an XP SP2 box (all components were either certified or MS own).
You may not feel right at home, but you do have Terminal, and it's nice to be able to run X, and lots of Unix-y stuff can be found in MacPorts, too.
Windows can be run in a VM, or with Boot Camp, natively. I've only had to reboot into Windows once in the past year, to run a proprietary firmware update application for a SanDisk MP3 player.
If you do decide to buy, shop around. Depending on which state you live in, that educational discount may not be worth it, compared to buying from Amazon... (in my case it wasn't--had no use for a Nano, and buying from Amazon meant no sales tax, plus a rebate)
I had this issue with activating XP Home for my grandfather. What happened is I built him a new machine using XP home that he bought used and activated on his old machine. It activated just fine when I installed it on his new rig but then after about an hour I had to call M$ support. A machine took care of me and I got my long activation code. Finally 10 mins I was deactivated again. This time when I called I had to wait a while and talked to a Indian customer rep and had to explain to her that the hardware was showing up different because this was a new machine built. So she issued me a new activation code. No further problems after that with activation. Personally I was not to happy dealing with this issue. I can't imagine my grandfather dealing with them. Luckily he has me to help him out.
At least running in 768 MB means you will have lots of time to see the error messages scroll by. :-)
...laura
This happened to me several times with XP. Usually it was after swapping a video card or motherboard. Then I would have to call MS and after 15 minutes on hold, read off a shiteload of numbers and then key in a shiteload of numbers to reactivate. This only encouraged me to make the switch to Linux as primary OS.
Ask yourself: why is Microsoft a monopoly? Yes, they've done all kinds of evil stuff to maintain their stranglehold on the marketplace, but how did they get it in the first place? Because of the technological lockin they've had since the IBM PC came out in 1981. Developers have to code applications against Microsoft APIs because that's where the users are. Users have to buy systems that run Microsoft OSs because that's where the applications are.
But a lot of factors are beginning to interfere with this vicious cycle. Nowadays a lot of applications are web-based, and you don't need Windows to run a web browser. Users are rebelling against the usability and cost of ownership issues. Macs can now run most Windows apps; yes, they need Windows in a VM to do it, but once the Mac platform grabs enough market share (8% and climbing rapidly) developers who aren't rabid Mac fanchildren are going to start considering it again.
And finally, there's the big one: retailers are pissed at Microsoft. Over and over, Microsoft has delivered updated OSs late, and screwed them up when they finally got them out the door. This hurts the retailer's ability to sell all those shiny new computers they just ordered. So they're going to more seriously consider Microsoft alternatives. That means that products that previously couldn't find a sales channel — web appliances, cheap computers running Linux — now actually have a chance.
Good lord, I'm actually feeling optimistic!
Has anyone ever seen Mark Shuttleworth and Bill Gates in the room at the same time.
I swear, one of these days he'll just grab his neck and pull off a rubber face mask, laughing maniacally. I can only assume their will be a white persian cat involved as well.
It's the only explanation. Microsoft can't possibly be this stupid.
Pug
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
Think about that word you justed used--product. I bought their PRODUCT--I did NOT sign a contract with them. And no, EULAs don't count because I didn't get a chance to agree to the terms *before* I bought the product. So tell me, why do you think that a company has the right to tell you how to use their product? If I sell you a car, I don't have the right to demand that you use Shell gas.
Pirate it. I've had a lot less problems using this method than buying Windows. I'm running Mermaid's release of Windows XP SP2, with WGA cracked and most of the extra crap no one uses cut out, resulting in a 350MB ISO (including the WinRAR, Firefox, and Vista theme it comes with). My current uptime is 27 days, 22 hours on an overclocked system without much RAM leaked. If Microsoft was willing to cut the extra crap and scrap activation, Windows would be a decent OS>
...we'll have to write this feature into Ubuntu. Can't be accused of not supporting our fair share of the world's tech service, can we? (j/k)
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Windows Vista = ME2.
/waits for Leopard pre-order to arrive.
I'm sure glad I don't give a rat's ass about DirectX 10 games (if there were any), or I might feel like I'm missing something.
Whoops, just kidding...! I don't buy Apple OSes until the first patch either.
:) 'nuff said
I am open source, and Linux baby!
Right, because...
As annoying as it is, it does open up a nice loophole in the activation scheme that can allow you to transfer an OEM licence onto a different computer (or the same one with practically every part replaced). When the activation fails, you call up Microsoft activation hotline and read out your installation ID, when they ask "Is this copy of windows currently installed on any other computer?" you reply with "No" and then you will get your activation ID (of course, if it is installed on 2 computers at once, activation will fail).
I have had Vista deactivate itself a couple of times, once when I got a new HDD and shuffled all the ones in my box around, and the other when I decided to upgrade ram, mobo, cpu, video card, and throw another new HDD in as well. Both times, I was able to get it reactivated over the phone without a problem.
This happened to me, just about 5 minutes after I read the article I finished installing my Logitech camera drivers. I made no other changes today, though I did update windows defender definitions. This is all on my 'testing out vista host' so it's not a big loss or anything.. but I was using a fully licensed MSDN copy of vista, and did NOTHING but update the drivers. Lo and behold, along comes a popup bubble at the bottom of the screen saying something like (don't remember the exact wording) Windows Failed to Activate hostname not found. or something very similar. First of all, I shouldn't have to activate... second, what host? I shit you all not, this really happened to me, just about 5 minutes after I read this and thought 'boy I hope that doesn't happen to me...' How's that for irony?
Speak for yourself.
Yeah, definitely. Crap like this encourages piracy. How easy is it to download a corporate SP1 cd that you can slipstream to SP2 and never have to worry about activation? Very.
Which is why anyone with any sense tests a pirate version in a VM or other locked-down environment first.*
What's that you say? Most people don't? Well, that explains the zombie counts...
* Which is the only way I *ever*, EVER let customer's machines on my internal web. Not like this is a new technique, hasbeard. Anything the least bit suspect should be locked away from the web until it can be determined it's safe.
SB
It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
It only works if you install Vista backwards. In other word's, uninstall it.
The latest in a long list of blunders by Microsoft.
Don't they understand that if they keep making Vista so unreliable, frustrating or hard to use with all the piracy protections, OS lockdowns, DRM and stuff, people might just not want to use Vista?
I guess they will only get it when even the pirates refuse to pirate Vista, "Because nobody wants it".
I'm waiting to see the advertising on the next version of windows. I'll use your product name.
Update now to Windows Zenith Fuzzy Edition. Comes with free fluffy **kitten
**(ultra fine print) live kitten not guaranteed. State of decomposition depends on the time of packaging.
Change your preferences to see everything. Thats how I saw you.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
knowing MSFT stock is in the toilet at $30 a share ------ and Apple stock is soaring at over a $100 a share --- today hitting $186
:-)
I just know that has to gall Monkey Boy and the Beast Master !!!!
Long Live Linux and OS X
Go ahead and mod me flamebait or off topic
Its not the years, its the mileage
Part of suitability for mission critical is having a decent worst case scenerio. With a REAL OS, if worse comes to worst, I can put the HD in another machine and boot it up with minimal trouble. When you are in a situation where that is your best option, the last thing you need to do is play mother may I with tech support somewhere.
Put another way, the OS's job is to do whatever root tells it to do if at all possible. Windows has a different master. It will obey MS to the end, and then root (administrator) only if not in conflict with orders from Redmond. If said orders keep you down, too bad.
Sadly, with the DRM heaped in, OSes from Redmond are becoming more rather than less likely to outright refuse to carry out instructions.
with my copy. They can do whatever they want with the codebase.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Why don't people tell Microsoft that this is unacceptable? For changing something as simple as a video card you have to call Microsoft? What a PIA. Why do we put up with it? Where is the Government? If Toyota decided that we have to call them to get permission to continue to drive the car if we change a tire, change the oil, etc., what crap. Why should this be any different? If microsoft wants to deal in the real world and use things like patents, they should have to play by the same rules. In the automotive world you could say simply by another make of car. By their own admission they control over 90% of the desktops so they are a monopoly. Treat them like one. Stick it to them.
I believe the China part, I duno about MS though.
A lot of Asian governments seem to be wary of depending on the US based software giant. They had to bargain to get Chinese to use MS at one point, selling windows at cheaper prices or something to convince China to put up with anti-piracy efforts or blahblahblah. I can't remember exactly what the details were and I can't find a link. oh well. maybe ignore that part since I can't verify what I'm saying. There was something interesting that happened though.
Anyways. My 5 RMB (certainly not dollars) is on China + Asian Linux
http://www.news.com/Asian-Linux-gaining-momentum/2100-1011_3-5278304.html
"Following an agreement inked last year, government officials from South Korea, China and Japan met in Beijing in April to discuss how they can create an open-source alternative to Microsoft Windows, honing in on issues such as the setting of standards, areas of joint technical development and work force exchange."
And now oracle is supporting it. I don't know much about it, but.
China is a country that, as a country, can make a decision and execute it. To read here, you memorize 5,000+ characters. When the Chinese government wants it to be a little easier, they change the character set. What happens? Everyone uses the new characters. I mean, radicals change so it's not *that* hard, but in the US, we can't even change to the metric system. They can build a wall *that* long. They can censor the INTERNET across an entire country. they can....
If China commits itself to using a better operating system, I really believe they could home-grow an OS from scratch better than Winblows or OSX relatively quickly. Not that I think that's saying much.
On a daily basis, I curse Adobe only a little less often than I curse Microsoft.
I made a network PDF printer here that drops your PDF into an open share folder. That works fine for about half of our group. The other half insist that they need to be able to edit PDFs. We have v.7 licenses, so I have to install Acrobat 7.0, then apply FOUR UPDATES THAT EACH REQUIRE A RESTART to get to 7.0.9. It takes a freakin' hour to install, because Adobe won't release a rolled-up installer. Obviously, Adobe wants v.7 to be a pain in the ass to use so I'll buy v.8. But I refuse, because we get nothing out of it. It's an upgrade in name only. Why the hell should we have to pay again for the same functionality?
When staff here budget for a new PC, they don't think about having to buy a new Acrobat license. Make sure you add that in when working up the cost of "upgrading" to Vista, as if you need any more reason to avoid it.
Adobe has always produced bloated, resource-hungry crap that is frequently the cause of instability issues. Why does it take longer to launch Photoshop CS3 on a dual-core machine than it did to open Photoshop 4.0 on a Pentium 1? Even though Adobe has three processes running at all time just in case you want to launch their bloatware?
NIC card
This invalidates anything else you have said, because you are a fucking idiot.
Uhm... yeah... Actually, there's tons of it. Most of the software used by the company I work for fails to install or fails to run under Vista. Heck, even Microsoft's own products aren't compatible with Vista: Office, Zune... The list goes on. Want more? Google is your friend. Try a query for "not compatible with Windows Vista" or "Vista incompatible".
Oh, and lest you think I'm some Microsoft-bashing fanboi - I'm a Microsoft Certified Professional, and I work for a Windows-only software company. We don't support Vista, yet, either.
--
Nuf Sed.
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
... you forgot to mention that with web-based apps, this really could actually be the desired mode of operation. Work for 30 minutes, take a break while your machine reboots... come to think of it, why bother with activation in the first place?
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License.
What is the PIN number for your ATM machine? I want some cash to buy a NIC card.
"But this one goes to 11!"