Re:Nokia is being taken over by Microsoft
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 1
Except for that little struggle at the top with the choice of CEO, one focused group of shareholders not willing to back off from their candidate, his corporate culture taking over top spots, some resignations already.
(not saying this had to be a Microsoft takeover, but...)
So the average person chooses immediately - a device which fits in the budget, has desired capabilities, and looks nice to the person. The UI and related characteristics are virtually the same across models (except on the intersection of very different classes of devices, but that's a straightforward choice)
Re:These articles say the same thing.
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 1
And in the meantime, between those two, lots of people - while obviously not "opting for X to see Y weakened" - would love to see Y lose because they use X (and since this site supposedly mostly serves one of the very few regions where Nokia hardly exists...)
Like every search for solace about own choices, every car (flawless analogy? O_o) / home computer / console / platform holy war in the history of mankind
Re:Nokia will be Microsoft's HW div? Um...
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 1
...in their own manufacturing facilities. Most out of ~dozen of them not in China, half in the EU, one even quite close to Cupertino.
Oh, that's not too unexpected among few demographics (2nd, under the table, section of the text; plus look at his sig - overall not the brightest or rectitude one)
Hm, yes, if you put it that way (not like I'm bothering to watch it)... but there's also the only absolutely politically correct word: "the middle ground between mediocre and good, just about perfect if you don't want actual perfection, neither good nor bad, the quantum average that's always approaching above average but never quite there, so-so but pretty good, almost three-quarters awesome";), etc. (not exporting suffering (and for what?...) could help, too)
Nokia do well-featured dumb phones. Like my phone, the 5310, and all the others with symbian 40 on it.
Series 40 is not Symbian.
Re:Microsoft's previous strategic mobile partners
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 3, Insightful
Part 3 of this report focuses on the EU; not exactly poor countries / Nokia still has the largest slice of the market (I wonder how it would look if iPhone models were listed separately... many Nokia handsets are also very similar)
They rarely undercut other manufacturers BTW, people chose Nokia - for each of their devices, it was typically fairly easy to find a comparable but cheaper phone from other manufacturers. Those outsourcing everything to China are not exactly a new thing.
(and S40 should remain for a long time on western low-end handsets)
How did you jump from "can't make money from your customers" (which doesn't describe Nokia anyway) to comparing it with financials of other manufacturers?(*) (also those not serving lesser people in lesser places; possibly even freeriding on cellular R&D, we'll see how this dispute ends). And while speculating about the impact of lowest-end phones from other manufacturers (also those outsourcing everything to China), remember they are not exactly a new thing...
(*) In a more general sense, it's fascinating phenomena to me - many, also here, are quick to voice their contempt towards people involved in stock markets, financial machinations, outsourcing, etc. Except when... being marveled at data provided by the very same people.
Do you know why Flip video succeeded? They made a simple little video camera, but they made ONE. Right now they have 3. One with a touch strip, one with HD, and a smaller one with HD and a rechargeable battery. Easy to pick. With sony, you need to decide form factor, 3D, resolution, pop-out screen....
That's curious to hear. Succeeded? Where? I have never seen one, in larger picture they are quite ignored; people in a lot of places (not when looking at one-few curiously atypical ones...) are very happy with random P&S digicams. Which BTW also offer very straightforward choices in Flip price ranges; but better quality-wise and more versatile.
You know what's your price range ->> you get to pick few recent phones fitting into that price range ->> they are all pretty close, virtually the same platform (except when two very different ranges meet, that's a straightforward binary choice), few obvious hardware differences (camera, screen, keypad, memory, radio) ->> you pick one, aided by "which one looks nicer to me?"
I recollect few things which probably had an influence.
Some patent / licensing / etc. dispute preventing UMTS (or even EDGE?) from working in US(*) Nokia handsets, for a time.
How, when phones and their UIs became more complex (beyond the level of 3310 / S30), Nokia was unwilling to replace them with carrier UIs (also supposedly unwilling to castrate them too much - and their "feature phones" were always among the nicest ones, perhaps only behind SE A200 platform and, obviously, recent Samsung Corby, Star or LG Cookie - those are the widely popular touchscreen phones of today... but I suspect you haven't seen them, either)...
...and also unwilling (a bit contrary to what AC above said?...) to do weird "custom carrier phones" (what actually seemed quite typical in the - if anything, Nokia was dumb to not let it happen?)
And that's certainly not exhaustive.
Because not really "North America" of AC above. Say, in Mexico they are quite popular...
make the same people put in pennies into their sidebar offering of less-worth, but clearly marked advertising
Fast forward to some hypothetical situation: one pretty much has to do it, to be visible - would that be evil?;)
Re:It Doesn't Matter if it's Humiliating
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 1
Where did I say S40 is going somewhere? When I wrote "many (those who will want to upgrade) of the hundreds of millions of people"? (vs., say, "all")
What's so unfathomable in how lots of those satisfied users could easily migrate towards higher class of Nokia products? (what was always largely the case) That's right there a huge demographic very noticeably more likely to go with Nokia in the future... (whatever the platform, whatever the OS)
Low end will always be there, it's in relation to something; changes of classes of devices don't mean much (indeed, that's the modus operandi of Nokia! S30 was pretty high end at some point) and what you wrote has no significance on the issue of, erroneously declared above, supposed abandonment of their wildly popular products now.
The general theme of what you're saying has been beaten to death very recently BTW; you might be somewhat too optimistic about laws of physics or market realities (of all of them)
...and of course just one quick look at the stats of few places where we know that iPhones or Blackberries are popular, shows how your "wildly skewed" is a non-issue.
Re:It Doesn't Matter if it's Humiliating
on
Why Nokia Is Toast
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· Score: 1
Oh, and these are top handsets using Opera Mini, quite a skewed metric. There are no "hundreds of millions" of users there, in fact they celebrate one hundred million total in Part 1 of the report you refer to.
Oh gee, and you didn't stop to think why I said "hundreds of millions of people reflecting most top handsets" and not, for example, "represented by"? They are very much out there.
And even within constraints of report: quite many people evidently willing to use their device as "more than a phone", and most of them - satisfied Nokia customers (they wouldn't be using it otherwise, not when one realizes how most of the world owns their phones, no contract, and uses prepaid).
If you think this won't influence the upgrade path for lots of them... (mostly from S40 BTW, migration of apps is irrelevant either way)
...like every holy home computer / console / platform holy war in the history of mankind.
It's not even "people use X because they want to see Y weakened", it's just "people would love to see Y lose because they use X". And since Slashdot supposedly serves mostly US audience, one of the very few places where Nokia hardly exists...
Although, they've seemed to turn it around this past year.
Not really, apparently they are (barely) in the clear mostly thanks to firing large part of R&D and via accounting tricks (not counting ~half a billion or so "loan" from parent companies)
(though, regarding SE & especially Android... choice of TFS icon seems misplaced)
What makes you think they're abandoning most of those close-to-500-million-devices-shipped-annually of theirs? No seriously, what? Among the recent news was a desire to have clear focus on two main consumer product divisions, one of them being so called "dumbphones" or "feature phones", certainly still largely on S40 (because some lowest-end ones are on S30...)
It's understandable how the vocal pundits from atypical (but visible) markets focus only on their narrow perspective, but why would you assume Nokia ditches ~80% of their userbase?
Slashdot Mirror
Except for that little struggle at the top with the choice of CEO, one focused group of shareholders not willing to back off from their candidate, his corporate culture taking over top spots, some resignations already.
(not saying this had to be a Microsoft takeover, but...)
So the average person chooses immediately - a device which fits in the budget, has desired capabilities, and looks nice to the person. The UI and related characteristics are virtually the same across models (except on the intersection of very different classes of devices, but that's a straightforward choice)
And in the meantime, between those two, lots of people - while obviously not "opting for X to see Y weakened" - would love to see Y lose because they use X (and since this site supposedly mostly serves one of the very few regions where Nokia hardly exists...)
Like every search for solace about own choices, every car (flawless analogy? O_o) / home computer / console / platform holy war in the history of mankind
...in their own manufacturing facilities. Most out of ~dozen of them not in China, half in the EU, one even quite close to Cupertino.
Billions of fans?
Oh, that's not too unexpected among few demographics (2nd, under the table, section of the text; plus look at his sig - overall not the brightest or rectitude one)
"Ideas"? Where?
Hm, yes, if you put it that way (not like I'm bothering to watch it)... but there's also the only absolutely politically correct word: "the middle ground between mediocre and good, just about perfect if you don't want actual perfection, neither good nor bad, the quantum average that's always approaching above average but never quite there, so-so but pretty good, almost three-quarters awesome" ;), etc. (not exporting suffering (and for what?...) could help, too)
Could it be some cherished, carefully guarded tradition? I remember few quite similar, in spirit, Roman Emperors... or (ducks) Popes ;p
Nokia do well-featured dumb phones. Like my phone, the 5310, and all the others with symbian 40 on it.
Series 40 is not Symbian.
Part 3 of this report focuses on the EU; not exactly poor countries / Nokia still has the largest slice of the market (I wonder how it would look if iPhone models were listed separately... many Nokia handsets are also very similar)
They rarely undercut other manufacturers BTW, people chose Nokia - for each of their devices, it was typically fairly easy to find a comparable but cheaper phone from other manufacturers. Those outsourcing everything to China are not exactly a new thing.
(and S40 should remain for a long time on western low-end handsets)
How did you jump from "can't make money from your customers" (which doesn't describe Nokia anyway) to comparing it with financials of other manufacturers?(*) (also those not serving lesser people in lesser places; possibly even freeriding on cellular R&D, we'll see how this dispute ends). And while speculating about the impact of lowest-end phones from other manufacturers (also those outsourcing everything to China), remember they are not exactly a new thing...
(*) In a more general sense, it's fascinating phenomena to me - many, also here, are quick to voice their contempt towards people involved in stock markets, financial machinations, outsourcing, etc. Except when... being marveled at data provided by the very same people.
Do you know why Flip video succeeded? They made a simple little video camera, but they made ONE. Right now they have 3. One with a touch strip, one with HD, and a smaller one with HD and a rechargeable battery. Easy to pick. With sony, you need to decide form factor, 3D, resolution, pop-out screen....
That's curious to hear. Succeeded? Where? I have never seen one, in larger picture they are quite ignored; people in a lot of places (not when looking at one-few curiously atypical ones...) are very happy with random P&S digicams. Which BTW also offer very straightforward choices in Flip price ranges; but better quality-wise and more versatile.
That's probably not an example at all, IIRC Windows version of Skype doesn't use Qt...
;) ...just a few from memory.
OTOH: Mathematica, Maya, Google Earth, Last.fm desktop player, VLC, Scribus, Psi, Lyx, VirtualBox, most of KDE obviously
You know what's your price range ->> you get to pick few recent phones fitting into that price range ->> they are all pretty close, virtually the same platform (except when two very different ranges meet, that's a straightforward binary choice), few obvious hardware differences (camera, screen, keypad, memory, radio) ->> you pick one, aided by "which one looks nicer to me?"
How can the above cause worries?
Oh I imagine the "electric universe" folks are hyperventilating in terror right about now...
The Sun is a very dynamic object ... always will be
I can't help but wonder, how does "always" exclude the black dwarf stage? ;)
I recollect few things which probably had an influence.
...and also unwilling (a bit contrary to what AC above said?...) to do weird "custom carrier phones" (what actually seemed quite typical in the - if anything, Nokia was dumb to not let it happen?)
Some patent / licensing / etc. dispute preventing UMTS (or even EDGE?) from working in US(*) Nokia handsets, for a time.
How, when phones and their UIs became more complex (beyond the level of 3310 / S30), Nokia was unwilling to replace them with carrier UIs (also supposedly unwilling to castrate them too much - and their "feature phones" were always among the nicest ones, perhaps only behind SE A200 platform and, obviously, recent Samsung Corby, Star or LG Cookie - those are the widely popular touchscreen phones of today... but I suspect you haven't seen them, either)...
And that's certainly not exhaustive.
Because not really "North America" of AC above. Say, in Mexico they are quite popular...
make the same people put in pennies into their sidebar offering of less-worth, but clearly marked advertising
Fast forward to some hypothetical situation: one pretty much has to do it, to be visible - would that be evil? ;)
Where did I say S40 is going somewhere? When I wrote "many (those who will want to upgrade) of the hundreds of millions of people"? (vs., say, "all")
What's so unfathomable in how lots of those satisfied users could easily migrate towards higher class of Nokia products? (what was always largely the case) That's right there a huge demographic very noticeably more likely to go with Nokia in the future... (whatever the platform, whatever the OS)
Low end will always be there, it's in relation to something; changes of classes of devices don't mean much (indeed, that's the modus operandi of Nokia! S30 was pretty high end at some point) and what you wrote has no significance on the issue of, erroneously declared above, supposed abandonment of their wildly popular products now.
The general theme of what you're saying has been beaten to death very recently BTW; you might be somewhat too optimistic about laws of physics or market realities (of all of them)
...and of course just one quick look at the stats of few places where we know that iPhones or Blackberries are popular, shows how your "wildly skewed" is a non-issue.
Oh, and these are top handsets using Opera Mini, quite a skewed metric. There are no "hundreds of millions" of users there, in fact they celebrate one hundred million total in Part 1 of the report you refer to.
Oh gee, and you didn't stop to think why I said "hundreds of millions of people reflecting most top handsets" and not, for example, "represented by"? They are very much out there.
And even within constraints of report: quite many people evidently willing to use their device as "more than a phone", and most of them - satisfied Nokia customers (they wouldn't be using it otherwise, not when one realizes how most of the world owns their phones, no contract, and uses prepaid).
If you think this won't influence the upgrade path for lots of them... (mostly from S40 BTW, migration of apps is irrelevant either way)
...like every holy home computer / console / platform holy war in the history of mankind.
It's not even "people use X because they want to see Y weakened", it's just "people would love to see Y lose because they use X". And since Slashdot supposedly serves mostly US audience, one of the very few places where Nokia hardly exists...
Although, they've seemed to turn it around this past year.
Not really, apparently they are (barely) in the clear mostly thanks to firing large part of R&D and via accounting tricks (not counting ~half a billion or so "loan" from parent companies)
... choice of TFS icon seems misplaced)
(though, regarding SE & especially Android
What makes you think they're abandoning most of those close-to-500-million-devices-shipped-annually of theirs? No seriously, what? Among the recent news was a desire to have clear focus on two main consumer product divisions, one of them being so called "dumbphones" or "feature phones", certainly still largely on S40 (because some lowest-end ones are on S30...)
It's understandable how the vocal pundits from atypical (but visible) markets focus only on their narrow perspective, but why would you assume Nokia ditches ~80% of their userbase?