Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that. Equally interesting is whether Adams was actually joking when he wrote that... I mean, have you ever been to Guildford?;)
Bow to my superior argumentation skills, parent poster!
Read the post you're replying to, child poster. I mentioned that I'd dated other ethnic groups because I was asked if I'd ever met a black person.
That particular line you quoted then goes on to say:
But really I just wanted to clear away the aspertions on my social exposure. Who I am or where I live have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments one way or another. They stand on their own so please focus on them.
And if you really want to discuss reasoned arguments, this would not have been an "Appeal to Authority" as I referred only to myself. It might have been an appeal to actual experience however.
Wow! Where to start? Calm down! You care a lot that Ford should be caucasian. I don't. I think it's irrelevant.
I do care about being able to put together a coherent argument grounded in fact though, so let me deal with a few of your points.
First a radio show, then a book, then a TV show, then a videogame, then a movie. I don't NEED to find it "in the book", the book isn't holly, and you have the OBVIOUS source for the image we have of Ford.
So you're saying because your first experience of HG2G is the TV series, in which Ford was played by a white actor, that it's a deviation for him to be played by a black one? So is the movie an adaptation from the TV series or from the book or from the Radio show. For most of us, we probably came across the book first, so we have no prior ideas other than those we brought to the story ourselves.
1-I have met black people, your sheltered and limited existance did not include such people?
I've dated people from both ethnic groups (and others) so I think that qualifies me. But what we are talking about is the actor Mos Def who is clearly NOT deep dark black, but a quite attractive brown, so the penguin argument remains stupid (not that it wouldn't anyway). But really I just wanted to clear away the aspertions on my social exposure. Who I am or where I live have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments one way or another. They stand on their own so please focus on them.
An alien that could reliably pretend to be from Gilford would look and sound like all the people he knew from Gilford.
Ford didn't convince people. They thought he was weird. This is a character who thought the name "Ford Prefect" was nicely inconspicuous. I like the idea of him obliviously using an american accent for years without realizing he was the only one. And if we're talking about race, well I'm pretty sure that there are black people from Guildford also, so pretty irrlevant one way or another.
"Adams is white, everyone around him was white, he wrote what he knew"
That's why he wrote about space ships and improbablility drives. There are plenty of black people in Britain and have been for a long time. I know - I live here. It's pretty insulting to the author to say that he had no exposure to different ethnic groups or that he couldn't imagine a character as anything other than white. From the fact that Ford is not given a colour in any of his work except the TV series where someone had to be cast in the part, I conclude that Adams probably didn't really give a shit. It isn't relevant to the character.
[Trillian]'s your typical blonde english girl.
This has nothing to do with Ford's colour, but the typical British girl can be blonde, brunette, white, indian / pakistani, black or chinese ethnic. We're a real melting pot over here. You have a limited view of the British people.
But here is the crux of the matter, I think: For the record: It annoys me because it's a change. Unimportant, but unnecessary,
Why when presented with a good actor who happens to be black should they say, "sorry, we want a white guy." You even say yourself that it's unimportant to the character, but you want them to pick a different actor because the previous actor to play the part was white. This is why people are getting pissed off with - because you want to discriminate against an actor to meet your shakily founded expectations and save you from "cognitive dissonance." That is racism.
But, lemme guess, you're a black woman?
My gender is irrelevant to anything I've said on this subject. Anyone can care about something that is wrong.
At least you've given up on the "Ford wasn't black because penguins have white feathers at the front" argument. I'm tired and I'm going to bed now so I guess you can say what you like from here on. My advice to you when you see a black Ford Prefect, is deal with it.
I get some delusional person going "but penguin black is blacker than human black", and frankly, that's wanker talk.
I suppose that would be me in an earlier post would it? You're saying that penguins are the same colour as "black" skin and that caucasion skin is #FFFFF and it's delusional to think otherwise? You are funny. You've just come up with the most contorted argument I've seen in a long time.
To summarise: you're saying that Ford is white because Adam's refers to his skin turning black when he becomes a penguin and that because he was facing Arthur at the time (is this definite - I want a quote from the book, btw) and that because penguins have a white breast, the lightening of this on brown skin would be more noticeable than the darkening to black????
Even assuming that Adams took account of the law of averages in his mathematically accurate descriptions, penguins are white breasted but have a black head. So where was Arthur Dent looking at on Ford's body? For your argument to work, we must take it as gospel that Arthur was staring at Ford's bare chest.
Well, that's good. I take the book selection, the BBC badge and Trillian's non-bimbo appearance as a positive sign that the movie may preserve some of the tone of the books and radio series. I'm still a little worried by the "Fate of the Universe in Their Hands" bit though.
Take a deep breath, Scrameustache. Re-read the thread of posts and try and view them as if they were someone else's. See the bit where you begin your post with "Ok, first off, my opinion of you: Unintelligent, unable to grasps concepts that differ from the standard labels." This is in response to a fairly mild question.
See how you then rapidly progress to CAPITALS TO MAKE YOU POINT.
See how you counter El-Spectre's attempts at argument with personal insults?
I'm just mildly pointing out that from someone who know's neither of you, you're the one coming off worst here. Might want to tidy that up.
I'm not a big motherfucker by the way. Maybe you could kick the crap out of me - would that make me wrong?
One thing is clear: Casting a black guy for that role is a deviation from the established appearance of the character. No matter how unable you are to recall a specific mention of skin tone in the book.
Since you bring it up, can you find a specific mention of skin colour in the book? Leaving aside the issue of whether it affects the character in anyway whatsoever, if you can't show where Ford is said to be caucasian in the book then the "clear deviation" may not be clear to everyone - it could only be clear in your mind that Ford was white.
As to the reference to Ford's skin turning black when he became a penguin??? Wtf? Penguins are black. Black people are just called black. In the same way that white people are actually more of a pink.
I've always pictured Trillian as black. I'm not sure if it says that in the book anywhere or if it was just my imagination choosing, but I'm not complaining that they've cast a white girl. She'll be the same character.
The sole issue with Ford Prefect is probably why he has an American accent when he claims to be from Guildford. However, this is the same character who named himself after a make of car because he thought it would be nicely inconspicuous! I kind of like the idea of him trying to pass himself off with that accent all those years without realizing.
And finally - token black man? It's a main character, integral to the plot and for the most part a character that has more control / dominance in the storyline than Arthur Dent. Is it too much to believe that Mos Def got the part because he is good?
Maybe you should be a little less patronizing to the other poster and realize that maybe he has a point.
I always assumed that "brain the size of a planet" meant equivalent in human / organic terms. I.e. like a car engine defined in terms of horse power. If you wanted to replicate Marvin's computing power with an actual brain, you'd have something planet sized.
Well, is isn't more amusing that an alien is using a US accent without realizing that people from Guildford don't talk like that? I mean this is a character that chose the name "Ford Prefect" because he thought it sounded nicely inconspicuous.
Unless of course, you're stuck on the fact that he's black in which case I take pleasure in informing you that there are black people all over British Isles.
anyone notice the book 'slapstick' by vonnegut under arthur's alarm clock?
Yep. And I also think I can make out that Arthur's work ID badge is a BBC one. Definitely three initials anyway.
I also think the trailer looks too much like an attempt at an action movie, but not a very good one, so I'm just hoping that means some marketing people were just desperately trying to make it look like something it isn't. I don't think Ford behaves alien enough in the trailer, but I reserve judgement until closer to the time. I'll probably wait for someone else who's read the books to see it and let me know.
Oh I know you tagged it as a spoiler, fair enough. It's just that I really liked the Prisoner and if someone else felt the same way I did, then it would be a shame if they couldn't enjoy it because they'd discovered it through the last episode first.
Just for the record, I read that it ended the way that it did because the studio pulled funding for it, so Patrik McGoohan had to skip right to the end and compress everything into the final episode.
And contrary to rest of humanity, I also enjoyed it, so I guess there must be someone else out there who would.
And may I say for anyone who hasn't yet clicked the above link, "DON'T!"
No offense to the parent poster, but go and watch the series yourself and you'll appreciate a lot more. You'll also develop an irrational fear of balloons.
And to anyone who has seen the last episode, all I will say is "The leg bone's connected to the hip bone."
That business model is based on generating revenue for share holders.
But it is that way because the investors want money. If people were investing for other reasons, say to produce a series that they actually wanted, then the business would have that as it's purpose. There would still be room for profit on top, mind you. Also, having your investors made up of such a common group would exert tremendous pressure to meet expectations.
Personally I've seen two episodes of Star Trek, they were both crap, but I like the principle at work here.
Hmmm. You have a good point. Maybe I should start farming/. accounts and selling those with good karma on Ebay. I should be be able to do brisk business with the I-for-one-beowulf-on-hot-grits crowd. BWA-HA-Ha!
Now I wish I could give you some 'insightful' mods for that post. But then mod points aren't real either;) Just another consensual fiction we use to organize ourselves.
At least, unlike money, mod points don't devalue through inflation.
80% of people aren't smart enough to tell the difference between advertisements and the real search results. I take your comment to mean that you are one of those people.
Some people never consider the effects of anything on anyone other than themsekves. I take your comment to mean that you are one of those people. Pardon me for considering the majority of mankind in my comments.
Sounds to me like Louis needs to pony up a little more cash to get better add placement on Google
But you then get into a bidding war for your own name. Try it with different companies: Microsoft outbidding Red Hat, Dell outbidding small PC sellers, Walmart buying EVERYONE's name.
Essentially all your advertising is subverted by a big name when they grab the customers who were looking for you. Is that a good practice for society? It's very similar to if domain names went to the highest bidder. Less serious, but similar.
Slashdot Mirror
*snort*
Hmmm. Hadn't thought of that. Equally interesting is whether Adams was actually joking when he wrote that... I mean, have you ever been to Guildford?
Bow to my superior argumentation skills, parent poster!
Read the post you're replying to, child poster. I mentioned that I'd dated other ethnic groups because I was asked if I'd ever met a black person.
That particular line you quoted then goes on to say:
But really I just wanted to clear away the aspertions on my social exposure. Who I am or where I live have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments one way or another. They stand on their own so please focus on them.
And if you really want to discuss reasoned arguments, this would not have been an "Appeal to Authority" as I referred only to myself. It might have been an appeal to actual experience however.
I am sure Douglas Adams would have offered it as a possible reason of his strangeness,
You think that being black is a reason to be strange? That is so fucked up it's bizarre.
Wow! Where to start? Calm down! You care a lot that Ford should be caucasian. I don't. I think it's irrelevant.
I do care about being able to put together a coherent argument grounded in fact though, so let me deal with a few of your points.
First a radio show, then a book, then a TV show, then a videogame, then a movie. I don't NEED to find it "in the book", the book isn't holly, and you have the OBVIOUS source for the image we have of Ford.
So you're saying because your first experience of HG2G is the TV series, in which Ford was played by a white actor, that it's a deviation for him to be played by a black one? So is the movie an adaptation from the TV series or from the book or from the Radio show. For most of us, we probably came across the book first, so we have no prior ideas other than those we brought to the story ourselves.
1-I have met black people, your sheltered and limited existance did not include such people?
I've dated people from both ethnic groups (and others) so I think that qualifies me. But what we are talking about is the actor Mos Def who is clearly NOT deep dark black, but a quite attractive brown, so the penguin argument remains stupid (not that it wouldn't anyway). But really I just wanted to clear away the aspertions on my social exposure. Who I am or where I live have nothing to do with the validity of my arguments one way or another. They stand on their own so please focus on them.
An alien that could reliably pretend to be from Gilford would look and sound like all the people he knew from Gilford.
Ford didn't convince people. They thought he was weird. This is a character who thought the name "Ford Prefect" was nicely inconspicuous. I like the idea of him obliviously using an american accent for years without realizing he was the only one. And if we're talking about race, well I'm pretty sure that there are black people from Guildford also, so pretty irrlevant one way or another.
"Adams is white, everyone around him was white, he wrote what he knew"
That's why he wrote about space ships and improbablility drives. There are plenty of black people in Britain and have been for a long time. I know - I live here. It's pretty insulting to the author to say that he had no exposure to different ethnic groups or that he couldn't imagine a character as anything other than white. From the fact that Ford is not given a colour in any of his work except the TV series where someone had to be cast in the part, I conclude that Adams probably didn't really give a shit. It isn't relevant to the character.
[Trillian]'s your typical blonde english girl.
This has nothing to do with Ford's colour, but the typical British girl can be blonde, brunette, white, indian / pakistani, black or chinese ethnic. We're a real melting pot over here. You have a limited view of the British people.
But here is the crux of the matter, I think:
For the record: It annoys me because it's a change. Unimportant, but unnecessary,
Why when presented with a good actor who happens to be black should they say, "sorry, we want a white guy." You even say yourself that it's unimportant to the character, but you want them to pick a different actor because the previous actor to play the part was white. This is why people are getting pissed off with - because you want to discriminate against an actor to meet your shakily founded expectations and save you from "cognitive dissonance." That is racism.
But, lemme guess, you're a black woman?
My gender is irrelevant to anything I've said on this subject. Anyone can care about something that is wrong.
At least you've given up on the "Ford wasn't black because penguins have white feathers at the front" argument. I'm tired and I'm going to bed now so I guess you can say what you like from here on. My advice to you when you see a black Ford Prefect, is deal with it.
I get some delusional person going "but penguin black is blacker than human black", and frankly, that's wanker talk.
I suppose that would be me in an earlier post would it? You're saying that penguins are the same colour as "black" skin and that caucasion skin is #FFFFF and it's delusional to think otherwise? You are funny. You've just come up with the most contorted argument I've seen in a long time.
To summarise: you're saying that Ford is white because Adam's refers to his skin turning black when he becomes a penguin and that because he was facing Arthur at the time (is this definite - I want a quote from the book, btw) and that because penguins have a white breast, the lightening of this on brown skin would be more noticeable than the darkening to black????
Even assuming that Adams took account of the law of averages in his mathematically accurate descriptions, penguins are white breasted but have a black head. So where was Arthur Dent looking at on Ford's body? For your argument to work, we must take it as gospel that Arthur was staring at Ford's bare chest.
Silly, yes, but then it's your argument.
Well, that's good. I take the book selection, the BBC badge and Trillian's non-bimbo appearance as a positive sign that the movie may preserve some of the tone of the books and radio series. I'm still a little worried by the "Fate of the Universe in Their Hands" bit though.
You're some kind of fucker allright.
Take a deep breath, Scrameustache. Re-read the thread of posts and try and view them as if they were someone else's. See the bit where you begin your post with "Ok, first off, my opinion of you: Unintelligent, unable to grasps concepts that differ from the standard labels." This is in response to a fairly mild question.
See how you then rapidly progress to CAPITALS TO MAKE YOU POINT.
See how you counter El-Spectre's attempts at argument with personal insults?
I'm just mildly pointing out that from someone who know's neither of you, you're the one coming off worst here. Might want to tidy that up.
I'm not a big motherfucker by the way. Maybe you could kick the crap out of me - would that make me wrong?
One thing is clear: Casting a black guy for that role is a deviation from the established appearance of the character. No matter how unable you are to recall a specific mention of skin tone in the book.
Since you bring it up, can you find a specific mention of skin colour in the book? Leaving aside the issue of whether it affects the character in anyway whatsoever, if you can't show where Ford is said to be caucasian in the book then the "clear deviation" may not be clear to everyone - it could only be clear in your mind that Ford was white.
As to the reference to Ford's skin turning black when he became a penguin??? Wtf? Penguins are black. Black people are just called black. In the same way that white people are actually more of a pink.
I've always pictured Trillian as black. I'm not sure if it says that in the book anywhere or if it was just my imagination choosing, but I'm not complaining that they've cast a white girl. She'll be the same character.
The sole issue with Ford Prefect is probably why he has an American accent when he claims to be from Guildford. However, this is the same character who named himself after a make of car because he thought it would be nicely inconspicuous! I kind of like the idea of him trying to pass himself off with that accent all those years without realizing.
And finally - token black man? It's a main character, integral to the plot and for the most part a character that has more control / dominance in the storyline than Arthur Dent. Is it too much to believe that Mos Def got the part because he is good?
Maybe you should be a little less patronizing to the other poster and realize that maybe he has a point.
I always assumed that "brain the size of a planet" meant equivalent in human / organic terms. I.e. like a car engine defined in terms of horse power. If you wanted to replicate Marvin's computing power with an actual brain, you'd have something planet sized.
Well, is isn't more amusing that an alien is using a US accent without realizing that people from Guildford don't talk like that? I mean this is a character that chose the name "Ford Prefect" because he thought it sounded nicely inconspicuous.
Unless of course, you're stuck on the fact that he's black in which case I take pleasure in informing you that there are black people all over British Isles.
And secondly, what could it possibly matter?
Pretty obviously, you just use a voice over and the TV series found the perfect way to do that by using the guide.
anyone notice the book 'slapstick' by vonnegut under arthur's alarm clock?
Yep. And I also think I can make out that Arthur's work ID badge is a BBC one. Definitely three initials anyway.
I also think the trailer looks too much like an attempt at an action movie, but not a very good one, so I'm just hoping that means some marketing people were just desperately trying to make it look like something it isn't. I don't think Ford behaves alien enough in the trailer, but I reserve judgement until closer to the time. I'll probably wait for someone else who's read the books to see it and let me know.
Many thanks! FLASH - urgh! You'd think the studios would WANT people to enjoy their trailers and hopefully download them for repeat viewing.
Be seeing you.
Oh I know you tagged it as a spoiler, fair enough. It's just that I really liked the Prisoner and if someone else felt the same way I did, then it would be a shame if they couldn't enjoy it because they'd discovered it through the last episode first.
Just for the record, I read that it ended the way that it did because the studio pulled funding for it, so Patrik McGoohan had to skip right to the end and compress everything into the final episode.
And contrary to rest of humanity, I also enjoyed it, so I guess there must be someone else out there who would.
And may I say for anyone who hasn't yet clicked the above link, "DON'T!"
No offense to the parent poster, but go and watch the series yourself and you'll appreciate a lot more. You'll also develop an irrational fear of balloons.
And to anyone who has seen the last episode, all I will say is "The leg bone's connected to the hip bone."
That business model is based on generating revenue for share holders.
But it is that way because the investors want money. If people were investing for other reasons, say to produce a series that they actually wanted, then the business would have that as it's purpose. There would still be room for profit on top, mind you. Also, having your investors made up of such a common group would exert tremendous pressure to meet expectations.
Personally I've seen two episodes of Star Trek, they were both crap, but I like the principle at work here.
Hmmm. You have a good point. Maybe I should start farming
*ahem* sorry...
Now I wish I could give you some 'insightful' mods for that post. But then mod points aren't real either
At least, unlike money, mod points don't devalue through inflation.
Taking sympathy for idiots makes one an idiot. I think that's all there is to be said on the matter.
I think I just lost my sympathy for you.
Regards,
-H.
80% of people aren't smart enough to tell the difference between advertisements and the real search results. I take your comment to mean that you are one of those people.
Some people never consider the effects of anything on anyone other than themsekves. I take your comment to mean that you are one of those people. Pardon me for considering the majority of mankind in my comments.
Sounds to me like Louis needs to pony up a little more cash to get better add placement on Google
But you then get into a bidding war for your own name. Try it with different companies: Microsoft outbidding Red Hat, Dell outbidding small PC sellers, Walmart buying EVERYONE's name.
Essentially all your advertising is subverted by a big name when they grab the customers who were looking for you. Is that a good practice for society? It's very similar to if domain names went to the highest bidder. Less serious, but similar.
Glass Teats! That is a piece of poetry. I thank you!