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Fans Attempting to Pay for Enterprise
An anonymous reader writes "What started of as a suggestion to pay for season 5 of Enterprise has actully snowballed into a project that no one has ever attempted before, that of getting fans to pay for the production costs of a tv series. It has brought on board a raft of people including lawyers. I wonder if the quoted $50 to $80 million is reachable." I gotta say that Enterprise has been better this season, but I feel like it's still only mediocre. Battlestar Galactica might be the best SciFi airing right now. And I woulda chipped in for more Firefly in a heartbeat.
Wow, talk about fanaticism! I mean, I like Star Trek too, but when was the last time you saw a bunch of desperate couch potatos try to put $80 mil together for medical research, space exploration, or charitable distribution? Seriously, luxuries beyond beer seem like a major drain on mankind sometimes...
By taping in my basement and wearing our homemade costumes! Live long and prosper.
Yes, they really do run that many commercials in a "one hour" show.
How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
And donate the money to Africa or asia. They need the money much more!
Are there actually any spelling checks of the quoted submissions by the /. editors?
And should they start off doing that?
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease
The main stumbling block, of course, is securing a suitable source of gold-pressed latinum.
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
Remember that tsunami? Remember the millions of dollars that private citizens donated?
people will do ANYTHING to avoid the realities of life and substitute in fictional realities these days, it seems.
the only tv shows that ever have or ever will make me surrender money are on PBS.
What kind of standard could something like this set? Imagine if this caught on and they did it to popular shows such as the OC. Actors get inflated salaries and/or networks make even more $$$.
I hope this never happens for a show just because of the standard it would set.
Evolution or ID?
Let them. I along with so many die hard Star Trek fans have alreaedy written it off as the child that never was. But if they want to support it in full, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to. What boggles the mind is nobody's talked about cancelling Andromeda yet, which was my favorite show up until these past 2 seasons.
-Christopher Wu
http://www.christopherwu.net/
get over it already. people cant always give all their money to a charity.
Unless you've given away everything you have you cant really talk. I hope you dont own that computer you typed on, cause heck, the money spent on that could've probably fed a hungry family for a month.
Star Trek has been kept running on the popularity of the mythos, of the franchise. It has always been self-sustaining, through its own quality. If a Star Trek show is in such a bad state that it needs to rely on fan charity to survive... it isn't worth keeping.
The coolest voice ever.
I'm already paying to receive my tv feeds. If I pay for just a show I better receive all rights of ownership for that show. I also better get all dvd right as well as rebroadcast rights.
If this works out, then would the fans have more say over the direction of the show? Open source Star Trek?
-- The reason it's called the right wing? Irony.
to raise 80 million dollars, 4million people would need to donate 20 bucks. im not willing to donate 20 bucks to keep enterprise on the air, are you?
GET A LIFE!
I'll create an amusing sig when I have something meaningful to post.
I thought about paying for Enterprise, but in the end I decided to download Fedora Core for free.
*ducks*
I wish that my inferiority complex were as good as yours.
-RenderHead
Didn't somebody try the same for Farscape?
There is no way both fans have that kind of money.
According to one recent source, Slashdot editors are paid approximately $28K. I suppose OSTG gets what it pays for. You'll note NewsForge stories tend to have far more professionalism, for example.
Farscape fans also tried to do this, but it didn't work...at first. Then suddenly some European "backers" appeared and the miniseries "Peacekeeper Wars" was a fact. This could definitely work one way or the other.
Anyone who thinks the new Battlescar Galactica is good has been watching way too much trash. It has lousy cinematography - the image always seems to be bouncing. And the actors - well lets just say I think it's being polite to call some of them actors.
After 9/11 when Amazon starting taking donations they only made $6.8 million dollars, and that was a big thing where over 170,000 people donated. They expect Trekkies to pay more just for a show?
On the operational side, a good comparison might be that show with McGiever going into the portal to fight minorities on other planets (can't recall the name). It started as a movie, then it was on one of those extra-pay pr0n channels, then it got to sci-fi channel. And somewhere along the way it might have also been showing new episodes through syndication.
In the unlikely situation that the money is raised - an individual, or registered organisation that represents the fund would have to enter into a contract with Paramount. At this point they become an investor in the franchise and its development. What happens if Paramount fail to produce the show? Legal action? What also happens to the advertising and syndication revenue? Are people investing purely to finance a vehicle that will make the franchise owner money - or would they seek to recoup their investment? That's just the beginning. I can't see Paramount taking cash from the fans in this way.
I find it very sad that people are willing to pay (or even contemplate paying) this much money in order to experience one mediocre hour of TV a week, rather than dontate their money to good causes like cancer research or some other deserving charity.
Good god people, what's this world coming too? Way to let "The Man" know how much of our soles he ownes!
If they come up with the 50-80 million dollars. I'm gonna cry.
they're free to do with it as they please. if I decided to spend 1 billion dollars and buy an island nation to rule like a king, that would be my business and noone else's.
that 80 million dollars isnt gonna come in $20,000 donations, I'd bet. Just lots of fans donating what they can. They think this cause is worthy. If there are enough of them who think so to make it happen, who says they are wrong?
are they going to share the profit of the tv and the dvd sales afterwards?
I mean, this would mean a lot for the production of films and tv series, it means cooperativism, but a tv show isn't a charity fund, who is going to earn the bucks?
DON'T PANIC
people cant always give all their money to a charity
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that any money donated over and above your cable bill for them to keep making a television show could safely have been spent on charity.
Never confuse volume with power.
people on fark even make fun of you.
Here's a better idea, why don't they take that money and donate towards the invention of the warp drive or the teleporter? Enterprise had some of the lowest ratings on TV. It got there for a reason: Star Trek needs a break from TV. Maybe after a few years off the air it can come back with some fresh ideas.
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
I have an idea....Seriously..
If Paramount would provide a Bittorrent of the Show WITH the commercials on the site AND make sure the quality of the video is as good or better than what can be gotten off of bittorrent web sites, they might be able to get people to watch.
Here is how it would work. You make it freely available but make users go through a page that informs them that by getting the video from an offical Paramount site they (Paramount) can prove to their advertizers that people are watching the show with ads (arguably...how do you know if people are ACTUALLY watching them...but then they don't know if nielson watchers actually watch the ads either).
By publicly advertizing that if people want to support the show they can download it from the their torrent (or web link) would provide an incen tive for people to get it from them instead of off of some offshore web torrent site.
They could update the commercials evey now and then if they wanted.
The KEY though is that the video HAS to be better than what is being distributed right now! If what is on tvtorrent or tvswarm is XVID HDTV 5.1 surround then they need to match or exceed it.
Fans of the show could then DIRECTLY support the show. People who get the non-advertzing version off of some peer to peer network are people who don't give a rats ass about the show making it anyhow.....but give people a way to pay (without money) and they'll take it (My theory of course!)
You assume there are 4 million fans. If you count only fans then each they would have to donate closer to something like $40 million.
I've got a real cool home-made Andorian mask made of papier mache and cut-up rubber snakes. I'll wear it for free. Also have a lot of blue spray-paint bought at Wal-Mart.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
It worked fine for TNG & DS9. Until they wrote in the whole Borg scenario, wasnt Voyager in danger of being canceled by UPN?
Sci-Fi doesnt hold well on Network TV, there are only a few rare examples of longevity, while syndication allows craptastic scifi shows to have a very long life.
Including lawyers you say? I wonder what percentage of that 80 mil will go to them...
In the meantime, if you want to take drastic actions to save Star Trek, there's only one thing you can do: Snuff out Rick Berman. He's the talentless hack in charge, Star Trek will keep on sucking as long as he's involved.
You can't take the sky from me...
*checks pockets for pennies*
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
This is the way everything should work. This could kick off a ne wave of Supply and Demand that may eventually change the course of television. Imagine a time in the not too distant future where the only shows that air are the ones worthy of continuing to exist based upon the merits of writing and performing. A brave new world ;-)
Why not have a lottery? Each "ticket" costs US$20 and if enough money is raised, 3 winners are selected for roles on Enterprise. If enough money isn't raised to save the show the money is transfered to Amazon, (or other online retailer), and each ticket becomes a US$20 gift card.
Now there is a "carrot" for those who want to donate and a way out if enough money isn't raised.
Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
I pay extra for higher speed internet access than basic service. Should I not have done that and donated the extra $15/month to charity?
Let's keep going.
I want to buy a corvette. Is that wrong, because I could have just bought a honda civic and donated the rest of the money to charity?
the hell with that. It's my money to spend as I see fit.
Battlestar Galactica was the best sci-fi show when it first aired all those years ago, I for switched to the trek series only because galactica stopped airing.
These fanatics are funding a creative endeavor instead of blowing crap up or actively hindering science. Finally, a positive spin on the word fanatic.
Say what you want about the quality of Enterprise-- I'm more interested in the idea of fans buying their shows directly. Sign me up.
Screw ads, screw broadcast, screw the networks/middlemen/etc... let me buy my shows directly from the people who make them! Even just releasing everything to DVD immediately after it airs would be good enough for me-- if I wasn't paying for DirecTV, I'd have a nice monthly budget for buying just the shows I like on DVD or via download.
As it is, I'm paying for a lot of channels I never watch, PLUS watching ads, just to get the handful of shows I enjoy. The system could be a thousand times better if "broadcasters" and "channels" went the way of the dodo and left us buying our shows directly from the people who make them.
Can't you buy stocks in movies now, if so why not a TV show? If people like it they'll pay for it. It would make more sense than some stocks out there, you'd get a lot more enjoyment out of watching Jolene Blalock than 100 shares of GM.
Th eonly episode I ever saw was two bad actors in a shuttle, running out of oxygen because a tiny tiny black hole pierced a hole in thier hull, which they used some poncy stupid cheesey spread to fix it...
:-)
It was the worst thing I have ever seen in my life, I had to shave my cornea just to feel clean again.
This is not a flame, I admit to only seeing about 5% of one episode, but it was so bad that I couldn't watch anymore, I didn't even see the quantum leap dude, and no matter how much quantum leap PWNED I do not want to see this.
Man, this sounds like the last ditch effort to save eldorado!
Why the obsession? Bring back roland rat, I say.
*me realises that slating ST or SW is a complete beg for a -tan(90) mod, and about 50 thousand accounts adding me to thier enemy lists...*
Give me a holographic doctor and a nypho borg *ANYDAY*. (not in the same context *cough*)
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
I'll happily put my money down on that show (about to order my fourth DVD set for extended family). Far superior acting and writing.
That's alot of executive producers, even by today's standards.
I also wonder what the IP status of these Enterprise episodes would be. Perhaps they should be GPL'd. (ha ha only serious)
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
"...a project that no one has ever attempted before"
Ever heard of public TV? PBS? BBC? Anyone? Hello?
When a majority of Slashdot posters are making fun of some Star Trek fans, you know that this is crazy idea :)
One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
CmdrTaco was right on with Firefly. Screw this Enterprise crap!
I think that Firefly got cancelled was the biggest mistake that TV has ever made. Well, almost... http://abc.go.com/primetime/accordingtojim/
Eh, maybe after the movie comes out there'll be more interest.
Battlestar Galactica might be the best SciFi airing right now.
Taco the blasphemer! Repeat after me Stargate: Atlantis.
I think they'd have a better shot of getting all the money if they set up something so that you can charge the donation to your credit or debit, and if they don't make the funding goal, everyone gets their money back. If that was an option I'd give them $100.
Maybe they could even get some kind of deal with the studio, 60/40 or something.
Gotta say, imho, Enterprise isn't as good as TNG, but it's on par with DS9, and way better than Voyager.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
This tactic won't work and people are wasting their money.
However, if you send money to me, it still won't work, but it will make me feel better.
So my suggestion, send the money to me, its the right thing to do.
Fans may not be able to muster the xx million for a physical production of the show, but what about a lower-cost CGI version? Fans could contribute CPU cycles for rendering the show. And some fans could even help in creating episodes by creating 3-D models of the show's set, working on animation sequences, aiding in editing, etc.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
well instead of trying to pay for an entire season of firefly, just make sure you go to the movie "Serenity" coming out in... September and then buy lots of posters and tshirts and lunchpails and mini-jayne plastic figurines!
I agree with CmdrTaco.....
You know how hard that is to say with a straight face?
Okay I mean, I don't care if Enterprise is doing better so far, last season was an absolute waste of time in my book, I can't believe they wasted a whole season not working on forming the federation. there are so so many interesting things to talk about and talking about some of the issues that they are coming up with in this season but they still spend to much time on fluff episodes.
and BattleStar Galactica? Its is THE BEST! it has the story arc possibilities of RMS's Babylon 5, with a much better cast, and I believe a lot more moxy and touches on more human issues. And I like the way they have put it together so far, I actually have started staying up on Friday to watch Galactica when I get home, even if it keeps me up to 4 AM
Nerds clearly dictate that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many...
How about putting together a more modest sum, say, $100,000, and giving it to these guys, and then donating the rest to something like tsunami relief or something. Yeah, I love Trek, too. But (a) even if they make enough to fund another season, Berman and Braga still have the helm and (b) Paramount still gets the revenue, I'm sure, since they wouls still own the franchise.
Do not touch -Willie
I used to be a big Star Trek fan, but I grew out of it. There will always be some form of ST series on because there is always a large following. I would love to see something of this nature work where the fans chip in money to make a series happen. I would love to see something like this happen for a Wheel of Time miniseries or a Icewind Dale miniseries that was actually good (not something like the piece of crap Earth Sea miniseries) On the other hand if this works out I hope it doesn't spur producers to start expecting monies from fans to keep series alive.
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
How about instead of paying for Enterprise, this movement recruits Star Trek fans of all colors to get the funds and then demand paramount create a new series that better suits their tastes. Get everyone on board, then demand a better product.
Remember, it's the masses that determine wnat stays on TV. It's all ratings.
Now, do you want those same masses dictating everything that TV tries? Do yuo think there would be a ST franchise at all if that happened? hell, I doubt there owuld be any Sci-Fi tried ever again.
I can see in now
Channel 2 Friends
Channel 4 Friends
Channel 7: Wings
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If I as a fan donate, and we do not manage to get the required $35,200,000, do we get the $12 back?
...Who has creative control?
More chefs does not a better stew make.
I hope Sun is paying you guys extra for the grid ad. Yeah, the ad area is the same size, but in practice it takes 5 times as much real estate on-screen. Nice.
I better see some vulcan titties.
I keep reading posts about if they get the money. It's not a matter of money. It's a matter of the show being an utter failure. As someone said in a post above. If a Star Trek show has to be cancled. Then let it go, something went terribly wrong. I myself am not a Star Trek fan, but I realize the community that is there. And if a show is cancled...it must be really bad.
Enterprise sure as heck ain't on that list. I'd put Babylon 5 up there as well, and DS9 if I could pick seasons and not the series.
Give the geeks tits and ass and suddenly plot takes a backseat to cleavage- how many potential contributors have X-rated T'Pol fanfic on their hard drives?
How about those fans also paying the rest of us for having wasted precious hours watching the first 4 seasons of piss poor sci-fi. And if the fans DO support it, do they think that they might actually have some say in the direction of the story or the quality of the writing? Nope...sorry guys.
This type of thing is brought up way too much in the forums, and I'm surprised people continue to mod this stuff up. It's a fallacy and people need to learn that.
Such an argument has merit on it's face, but when you say this you are making a assumptive judgement on the part of the donors. Who's to say that the donors didn't already donate to tsunami relief? And who's to say what they already donated wasn't enough? And who's to say exactly how much per each person per amount of income is "the right amount" to donate?
The fact is you can't. Therefore the argument falls down because you can't apply it to each case uniformly. If you can prove that each and every single person in this campaign is a single white male earning $100,000+ a year and gave absolutely nothing top charity, then you can say it is a misappropriation.
I know I'm nitpicking but under the same argument, all money spent to produce Battlestar Galactica is also a misappropriation because it's for luxury and therefore should go to tsunami relief. Half of slashdot thinks trek should die but watch slashdot mobilize if Galactica suddenly dies an early death. How's that for a double standard?
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Trek's problem isn't Trek, or the actors, or the SF, it's Rick Berman. Since he's taken the helm from Gene he's run the ship into the ground. If you've watched an Enterprise episode that was sub par, there's a good chance he's the one that wrote it. He IS the problem with Star Trek.
I don't. *rimshot*
Although it would be pretty cool to be there when they cut off Berman and Braga's heads and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations of scriptwriters, that some sequels come at to high a price. I would look up at their lifeless eyes and wave just like this (*wave*). Can trekbbs.com and their associates arrange that?
There's something to be said for the tenacity of Trek fans, but this project won't go anywhere.
First of all, unless they get Bill Gates to chip in, they'll never be able to get that much money. $50-80 million is what's scientifically termed a "huge shitload of cash." There aren't enough geeks who can pull enough change out of the couches in their parent's basement to possibly even fund one episode.
And most importantly the costs of production are a very small amount of the total costs of a show. Would the fans be willing to pay some network for airtime? How about the cost of pressing the series as a direct-to-DVD release (a possibility that would be the likeliest for an Enterprise return. How about paying the required royalties to the producers, cast, writers, and other staff covered under WGA, SGA, and DCA rules?
Sorry folks, but Enterprise is as good as dead. Unless they can kidnap Scott Bakula and the rest of the cast and build sets in their basements, Enterprise can only come back when the powers that be at Paramount decide they want it back. At least in terms of films, Star Trek is going to go away for a while, and frankly, it's about time.
I suppose they could try and set up some sort of agreement to produce some more Trek, say sell shares in a company to produce the series to fans (New Trek Project, Inc. say). Although they'd probably have to start with something like a small series, say six episodes, and see how it did. Perhaps direct to video? Although I have no idea how well that would work in the US.
Presumably if the series makes a profit, the company would be dissolved, and you get money back (but perhaps not the original investment). Of course if it makes a loss you wouldn't get any money back. You'd presumably get a compilmentary DVD and a certificate or something either way.
Presumably they could thenk set up New Trek Project II, Inc. to produce another series if sucessful. Or Trek could stay dead for a few years before getting resurrected again, a rest might be the best thing.
It's all very risky, and frankly I wouldn't do it for Trek unless they could either get the DS9 people back, or perhaps the Babylon 5 person / someone else well regarded. I wouldn't through money at the current production team. Although I don't have any money to throw at anything anyway, so it's a moot point. Plus I don't think it would fly anyway.
Note: I haven't seen more than about three / four episodes of Enterprise, Voyager killed Trek for me. I am also neither a businessman, nor a lawyer, and I am pulling this idea from my Advanced Realistic Solution Engine, just like the original forum poster probably did.
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
Awesome. One word mixup and I'm destined to hear thousands of shoe jokes for the life of this story! Argh!
The fan-produced series, based on the Original Series did INCREDIBLY well.
The money was donated to the Space Shuttle Children's Fund.
I don't remember how much was raised, but there were millions of downloads of the shows.
http://www.newvoyages.com
Costumes and sets and whatnot are already available. If Paramount were to continue Enterprise as Pay-per-view, or do a few direct to DVD movies each year, I think that would work well..
A Direct-to-DVD movie or Mini-Series about the Romulan War would sell well to fans.
Supposing they actually do raise the dough and pay for an entire season.
Who owns those episodes?
Who gets the money from DVD rights? Broadcast rights? Commercials?
More importantly -- who approves the scripts? If I was paying for an entire run of a TV series, I'd at least want to read the scripts. Get a bunch of Star Trek fans involved with a script approval process and you'll have a riot.
Paramount would be wise to just let it die a respectable death.
Does anyone have change for a button?
$50 to $80 million divided by the total audience ... let's see ,,, that's only a million dollars per viewer.
I like Enterprise as much as the next guy, but seriously - why not make the world a better place by donating to the EFF or Oxfam or a local food bank or a library or a religious organization or the FSF or an animal shelter or a veterans association or a childrens' hospital or something else real. It's only a TV show.
because it makes too much sense.
It'd be an ideal way to get things out - look at the TOS continuation project for an idea of how well those things work. They distribute over BT and it's great.
But you'd be treading in dangerous waters, corporate-speaking, because:
1. Their lawyers would get their panties in a wad over it going out in a format that was easily copy-able, thus proving that file-sharing networks and BT have legitimate uses (which the MPAA is still trying to deny)
2. The marketroids would be shitting in their pants over the fact that decent-quality files were being distributed, rather than crappy-quality Quicktime mini-clips, thus providing a possibility that people wouldn't buy the DVD sets later. Or in the reverse, if the files weren't easily transmutable to DVD, the "fans" (read: hard-core geeks who take that XVID HDTV 5.1 RIP and make a DVD of it) would get all pissy about imagined quality defects even if there really weren't any.
3. There's a real possibility some of the actors would be pissed about it not still going out over the airwaves, and IMDB wouldn't know how to categorize the show anymore.
Oh...and the video MUST be available at the same time as the show comes on in the EARLIEST market. Example...if the first time the show comes on is in Eastern Canada (like Stargate Atlantis) before the rest of Cable gets it...they NEED to have the video up WHEN the first Airing occures.
Rabid fans want it the moment it gets released and will go for some other torrent site that has it if the "offical" version is not out.
... brought on board a raft of people including lawyers. (emphasis mine)
An instance where the rats enter the ship first, as opposed to leaving.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
"Way to let "The Man" know how much of our soles he ownes!"
I didn't know "The Man" was after the bottom of our feet...I will be sure to keep my socks on at night.
Seriously though, what gives you the right to tell people how to spend their money. Gone to or rented a movie lately? Why don't you donate that money to cancer research? Going out to dinner? You should eat in and send the savings to cancer research. Posting on Slashdot? Why waste time when you could be earning more money for cancer research. Do you see what I am saying? Just because you think that how these people spend their money is stupid, you ought to look at your own life and look at all the crap you buy that you could donate to charity.
While I defend people's right to waste money as they choose, I do think this is pretty crazy. I watched the show a few times and it was just plain bad. The Captain is just a female version of Kirk. I say that because she just isn't a very good actress. The one think Kirk did have was charisma. A bad actress with no charisma as the main character? eh, I'll pass. I love sci fi as much as the next dork, but I would be surprised if this show would garner that much support.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
It's hard to tell, the dollar is pretty weak.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Apart from Safari, do any other browsers actually have a built in spell checker anyway? It's such a useful thing to have, especially with my (lack of) command of English.
;-)
But I think the spelling, grammer and factual errors are all part of the Slashdot experience. I mean, it's not like it's a real news site anyway.
(I'm using Firefox on my PC ATM, so ingoer ayn speklinf mostajes.)
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
... not futile.
Paramount cna now sell it as a package in syndication w/o more production costs. Plus, there's teh DVD release and maybe a movie or two.
The money's not in another season
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
It seems to me that they could easily raise that kind of money by preselling DVD sets of the completed new season. I'd certainly pay $50-$80 for such a product, if I knew that Manny Coto would be running it. But there's a much more interesting potential here.
There's an investment possibility: another season would have its own resale value, for airing, for syndication and future DVD pressings.
That's the approach that they should take: form a company that would share the rights to the fifth season with Paramount and fund it by selling shares in that corporation. Charter shareholders would get free DVD season sets, and the corporation would be able to go on and fund the continuation of other series such as Firefly and Farscape, subject to shareholder vote.
Seems to me that there's an opportunity for someone to make quite a bit of money here running the whole thing, and that's the kind of detail that makes large projects possible. This isn't all that different from what Sci-Fi did to fund Battlestar Galactica, except that the partner corporation was another network (Sky One in the UK) instead of a fan-invested corporation.
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
at least it was your sole error.
btw, I agree.
Quit wasting your money on your PC and cable modem subscription, o pretentious one.
People who can afford the bandwidth to download high quality videos most likely have cable tv already and don't need to pay more to watch the show.
But those same people may not have HD quality feeds that you could get with bittorrent.
For a show I really liked I'd pay $5 an episode to be able to download it and play it back where and when I wanted. For instance with Battlestar Galactica I'm better off downloading the HD feed than watching it on Dish, which has only a standard SciFi channel feed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
the couch potatoes put together several billions of tsunami aid. Not charitable enough for you?
Want to help fund Firefly production? Fill out this survey/petition. Maybe it will happen someday
I appreciate the fanaticism, but they need to let it go.
Apart from raising funds like this for a for-profit endeavour, the legal issues would be Gi-normous.
Licensing, Direction, re-runs, actors contracts...where would one begin?
Getting those issues resolved alone would eat up the break from TV that this franchise needs to reload on some good ideas.
Please, give it a dignified rest. It deserves that.
i love battlestar galactica. it is better than enterprise.
let us do a side-by-side comparison:
1. the token alien hottie: t'pol vs number 6
this is a close one. by all accounts, they are both mighty fine. tricia is ahead because she is tall and blonde (albeit fakely so). it must be noted, however, that jolene has a mighty fine bum. also, she gets bonus points for her retarded roll on sg1. this is a very close contest, and i have to give the win to jolene.
2. the token asian hottie: hoshi vs boomer
boomer wins HANDS DOWN. in the last episode where her multiples were all up and walking around naked? that was so hot.
3. the wild card: starbuck
here there really is no contest. enterprise has no answer to starbuck (although the hot andorian seductress in one of the recent episodes kind of did it for me). she's your quintissential fly by the seat of her pants, shoot from the hip, devil may care troublemaker. and she's a girl. who happens to be really hot.
i don't know about you, but there's something really sexy about a girl that doesn't need to get all dolled up to be hot. and in that episode where she did get all dolled up? HOTTER! zowie.
(posted anonymously so my gf doesn't murder me in my sleep)
Enterprise is simply the best Star Trek franchise since TNG. I hope to god that this gets off the ground, though I was reading a recent interview in Playboy with Jolene Blalock where she said that she couldn't imagine herself doing another season.
Rob Barac
www.intersplice.com.au/blog
www.cafegeek.com
www.marketingroots.net
How much do people spend on coffee and soda every day?
This argument is, in this case, very silly. We're talking $10-20 per fan. Can you honestly say you've never spent $10-20 of non-philanthropic money?
If it were that good, how come it got cancelled? And if there are so many fans, how come there weren't sufficient ratings to justify Enterprises survival?
Possibly the rise of bittorrent meant that while loads of fans watched it, they didn't watch it on the tv, which is, of course, how ratings happen, and from where advertising revenue appears.
I kind of like some of it, but on the whole I wasn't tempted to turn over the tv to watch it Re-runs of the other series, stargate, and the current battlestar galactica are frankly far more entertaining.
I am not a fanatic about ST. TNG was my favourite by far, the original series was great for camp value and the occasional thought provoking episode.
DS9 and Voyager had great potential, but for me disappointed.
Even early TNG was pretty bad from a writing and acting point of view, but they got better after a couple of seasons. The actors are talented on this show, but they aren't given much to work with.
When this show was announced I was jazzed up, I thought it would be pretty low tech star trek. The problem is they have phasers, they have transporters, they have met the borg. It just seems that they didn't really take advantage of the 'prequelness' of the main story.
The episode where they met the borg ultimately did it in for me. I figured they had truly run out of ideas and I don't think I have watched a full episode since.
They need to fire the producers, fire most of the writing staff, and take a break for a year or two then come back fresh.
to pay someone to beat B&B with a halibut instead?
You don't get more episodes, but you do get a greater sense of personal accomplishment.
the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
I would easliy give my 12 bucks to keep a show on that I like. I would do this with numerous shows I watch. I hope it works out for them and when it gets going maybe I will toss in my 12 bucks.
I never liked you
If you think about it, fans paying for a show is kind of like reserving tickets for a play that you'll see later.
So should all theater season ticket holders destroy theaters everywhere by not supporting the theater or ever buying passes?
And why should anyone ever go to a movie, or a concert? That money obvisouly is better spent on food for the poor.
I'm sure the dissolution of all entertainment everywhere so that you could provde a larger band-aid to problems that are primarily political in nature would make the world a happier place. Am I allowed to at least sketch drawings in the sand as long as the stick is free?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Clearly broadcast schedules are dying. Why the obsession with them?
If everybody just donates a few cents, that adds up quick. Just look at the guy who funded his college education years ago by asking a newspaper reporter to ask his audience to send the guy just one penny each. The guy made at bare minimum a few million. And this was just from pennies! Imagine if everybody just donated $1. Spare yourself that on extra soda from the soda machine and send it in for a great show
We at savefarscape.com came up with this idea long before Enterprise was cancelled. It was deemed unworkable, we instead spent large amounts of money on donating DVDs to libraries and military bases, TV ads, newspaper ads, buying the front page of Variety..
I'd guess we spend $500k+
Maybe we can pay Berman to stay away from the next star trek series?
I find it very sad that people are willing to pay (or even contemplate paying) this much money in order to experience one mediocre hour of TV a week, rather than dontate their money to good causes like cancer research or some other deserving charity.
How much of your money do you give to charity? If you're going to judge someone for paying for Star Trek, next time you're about to spend some money on something you enjoy (which someone else will think is mediocre), give it to charity. If all the Harry Potter fans had given to charity instead of buying the books and watching the movies, that would be hundreds of millions of dollars; are you saying that because someone thinks that's mediocre, all those fans should have donated to charity instead?
I'm gonna try to get the masses to pay me to belittle them on TV.
All your base are belong to Google.
I might pay the normal going price for tv season box sets. I WOULD NOT pay the price they rape people for star trek tv season sets.
We should do this for the Hubble Rescue Effort instead. Have Anna Nicole Smith as the spokesperson.
Disclaimer: I need the Hubble for a novel plot device.. selfish of me... Anyone have a spare dim-object telescope in orbit I can borrow?
I wouldn't worry, I'm sure someone will be able to cobble together some kind of meaningful response.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
All we actually need to put together is say $50,000, that ought to be enough to hire someone to whack Berman and get Star Trek back on track with a new head.
But i'm not angry.. no, seriously.
IANALOOA
In other words, in order to get them to go for this, you'd have to cover the lost advertisement revenue AS WELL AS the production costs. That's probably going to be over $150 million at least.
This would be a great way to get shows done but I think that instead of just donating money for a new series, fans should be treated more like investors. So, if the show makes back the 80 million, they get their money back, if it makes more... well they should be entitled to that too. That way there's additional incentive for people to invest which should increase the chances of the money being put together.
Oh my god! The state of Science Fiction is incredibly horrible right now. The last decent science fiction series was Sliders (first and second seasons only), but the SciFi channel had to go and ruin it. In fact, it seems to me that EVERY program to come out of SciFi channel seems to suck. Or if it started off good and got pulled into the SciFi channel, then it gets killed off. Andromeda was slightly above the fray, so SciFi killed it. But trash like the ruined SG1 and the complete papfest Stargate Atlantis keep on keepin' on. It's just not fair. It shouldn't be called the SciFi channel, it should be called the Junk Action Show channel because that's really all it is now. Where's Doctor Who? What about some of the classics of science fiction like Space 1999 or some of the Italian 70s disco cheesefests. Those programs and films have far more integrity than anything that SciFi currently produces. What is it with cable/satellite networks in general and their crap "original programming"? The Sopranos? Shite. Queer as Folk? Nothing beats the original (not the Showtime version). SciFi's original movies (Wizard of Earthsea anyone?) ALL suck the big one. These networks should not and didn't originally exist to produce their own programming. This is what happens when you give people who only have a profit motive primarily in mind the keys to the kingdom. You get a steady flow of crap disguised as creativity. PBS and the BBC produce much better programming in comparison because they are not in it solely for the money.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
It could be done for a lot less than $80 million if fans were willing to accept some changes in the production methods of the show. Here are my ideas:
1. Use a prosumer type videocams to record shows instead of network grade production equipment.
2. Don't use the studio sets to produce the show; build a set on somebody's property elsewhere.
3. Don't use the actors; go to a theatre school and find some actors. You don't need Mr. Quantum Leap to be the captain. In the theatre business, plays are produced over and over with different actors all the time.
4. I'm sure a bunch of slashdotters could scrounge up some CRT's and write some graphics to simulate the computer technology shown on the ship.
5. Use scripts written by fans instead of the schlock that Berman et al have been putting out.
Of course none of this will happen because of the hammerlock on the copyrights that Roddenberry's estate has. I think that is part of the problem with the franchise; Roddenberry's will constrains the types of plots that can be used in these shows.
Just my two cents...
"Lack of technical competence coupled with the arrogance of power, as usual, leads to no good end."
Rick Berman. Since he's taken the helm from Gene he's run the ship into the ground. If you've watched an Enterprise episode that was sub par, there's a good chance he's the one that wrote it. He IS the problem with Star Trek.
I agree.
Maybe we should start a campaign to have Rick Berman fired, or preferrably: set on fire.
We could have petitions, fundraisers, mail-in campaigns to his overlords at Viacom, etc.
You can't take the sky from me...
I think your comment neatly summarizes the Star Trek ethos pretty well.
Or not.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
I'm not really trying to tell people what to do with their money, just pointing out that if you are going to organize and generate 50-80 million dollars of donations, it's kinda sad to spend it on a TV show, rather than a chance at saving even one person's life. That's all, I find it sad, but they can do as they choose. It wasn't my intention to imply anything other than that fact that I think it's sad.
BTW: The Captain's a man, unless something changed after the first season.
That's a lot of dough. But, not unreachable.
Lets say we're aiming for $80,000,000.00
That's 1,600,000 people donating $50 a piece. Not impossible.
Now, lets assume that some nerds with cash will jump in, and the studios say they'll chip in because of the overwelming fan support. So, they chip in $20,000,000.
That gets it down to $50 for 1,200,000 fans.
I don't think it'll happen, and I don't think this is the best spending of that kind of money and effort. But It's possible.
Pretty Pictures!
I ran a few fundraising efforts for my old fraternity. As it was what you might call a vanity fundraiser, as opposed to something like the tsunami effort, I think I have a little insight. First off, they'd need to figure out a way to be able to return the money if nothing actually happened. All of it. I think that would induce people on the fence to chip in. Second, they should have some tiered donation. In any campaign like this, there are people on both extreme ends. Either giving nothing, or willing to give more than you'd believe a reasonable person would. Have some levels, like $2500 for "Admiral", or something equally stupid. Then list them on the site and send them a t-shirt or a communicator (or whatever). A lot of people live this stuff, so I'm sure there are poeple who would plunk down that kind of cash. Third, you don't need to fund the whole thing. I imagine if they were able to raise 1mil, the tv production folk would realize they had on their hands some seriously rabid fans. Right now they're thinking the show failed because there wasn't viewer interest. Its not the lack of fan support that has caused this show to fail, but the fact that the show is really horrible. I mean, Enterprise sucks bad. I tried really hard to like it, and I can't watch it. If the rabid fans were actually able to put up some serious money just to get the studio to make another season of their show, the studio might wake up, can the existing producers/writers/whoever, and make the next season. Re-open the script submission policy. Get some better writting and story. You know, do the things that get people into the show. For some reason the writting on most of these sci-fi shows is REALLY BAD. It feels like they do that because the sci-fi fans are so into it they put up with the crap writting. The only new show I've been able to watch has been Battlestar G, but even parts of that make me cringe (like using "Fruck" or whatever for cursing. Oh man, just don't curse). For the most part they just feel cheesy. They don't have to be like that, so why are they? As far as the idea of raising 30-40 million by collecting $20 from each fan, holy shut. Turn off the freckin' computer and get outside.
It's time to let Star Trek die a dignified death. Besides, it's not like it won't be back, but maybe, just maybe they'll take the time to put something together that could be as great as the original. Not that I think it's likely to happen, but if this mediocre show were to get bailed out by the fans, then the producers will have learnt nothing. Bingo wuz here
Why don't we try to come up with funds to develop a real warp engine, instead ;-)
http://www.dieblinkenlights.com
I love ST Enterprise and I would be willing to pony up the cash, but (BIG BUT) If this is a success then it might take off. Before you know it all shows will be doing this. Perhaps it would lead to a pay per epsiode. This is kinda like cable back in the day when there were no comercials thats why you paid for it. We pony up the cash the show is a hit. UPN doesnt need us anymore, but still requires us to pay. Big guy:1 Little guy:0
If I wanted easy I wouldnt be an engineer or a patriot.
This seems like an implementation of the Street Performer Protocol that he proposed. This only implements the first half of it though, in which the fans pay up for a work. The second half is that the work is then released freely. I doubt Paramount would be open to that part of it.
Lasers Controlled Games!
This money should rather go to someone with the need.. Like the victims of the tsunami, who still dont have a home and have never watched Star trek!
Ever heard of BitTorrent?
I've seen some describe this as a potential future for TV where the content providers are smart enough to embrace new technologies. Instead of BT being used to pirate episodes, fans pay a modest fee to subscribe to the tracker that provides their favorite episodes.
The fee covers production costs, the fans themselves do the distribution.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I have to say that your posting skills need polish. Maybe if you laced them with some humor.
Le[tt] the fanboys of the world (mostly Slashdot) come together and make the networks feel their wrath! Big whoop. Next?
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
How much would the rights to the wonderful theme song cost?
One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
I'm not terribly surprised to see this happening. After the plot developments that have occurred so far in season 4, it's fairly obvious that the stage is being set for the Romulan Wars later on. Considering that if Enterprise indeed doesn't make it to a 5th season we'll likely never see the wars(nor the birth of the Federation), I can't say I blame the fans; the only way to really complete the Enterprise arc is for these events to happen. Let's hope the fans are successful enough to see this through.
Perhaps someone could create an 'Enterprise' adware/spyware and finance the show through unprotected computers?
There's a problem with preselling DVD sets and fans paying for a season.
Unless massive numbers of people are writing Paramount checks and trusting that Paramount, in their kindness, will do "the right thing" with the money, what's really happening is that people are buying some sort of security -- a share, a bond, etc.
The SEC takes a dim view of such movie-related securities. And trying to do things "right" takes a lot of money to set up properly.
Gentoo Sucks
None of your business, thanks for asking.
No. They can do what they want. If you have 80 million dollars of charitable donations though, it's sad if you spend it on TV rather than something importiant in the scheme of things. I'm just saying it's sad, that's all.
I have cable. I am not motivated to watch it. The cable box is present because it's part of my phone/broadband package. It's actually located under my desk in my office (because when I moved in, I had no television, just a TV card). I have no extra channel packages beyond basic.
Here's the thing : there *are* things on cable I'd like to watch. I like movies. I like Sci-fi. But I can't stomach paying for TV which has a 1:3 commercial ratio, and I don't want a channel bundle where I'll only watch one out of maybe five channels ; why the hell should I pay for content I don't watch?
So this seems an ideal solution to me. More democratic and better value for money. To be honest, even with the huge number of people who presently watch "reality" TV, can you actually imagine people pro-actively purchasing it? With any luck, that kind of dross would dry up and be reduced to a minority viewership (which is all it would need to stay afloat, given its low production cost/value).
There's still room for big companies in this model. They could continue to produce pilots and broadcast them FTA. "Want to see more of this? Push your red button / visit a website and buy some points in the production company!" In fact, it's hard to see how a fan group could produce a show from the ground up.
We fund the production of these shows anyway, through our cable/satellite fees, and through the ad budgets of the products we buy. Wouldn't it be better if we could just be more direct about where our money was going?
(NB - I live in the UK, where public-broadcast television is not universally crap, and the commercial/content ratio is much higher on the FTA commercial channels).
Beer is not a luxury.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
I find it very sad that people are willing to pay (or even contemplate paying) for bottled water, instead of municipal water. Don't you know that Sally Struthers could use that money to save a child?
Why do people pay close to five bucks for a Starbucks coffee? Don't they know that President Carter could use that money to build a Habitat for Humanity?
Why would someone drive a $30k car? Don't they know that just $10k could make the difference in a kid being able to go to college?
People make consumer choices all of the time. Why does this one bother you guys?
Don't you know that the ring-tone (!) market on cell phones is in the billions per year? This is a drop in the bucket.
This is entertainment. People pay to be entertained. All forms of entertainment are frivolous, and they can all be compared against the costs of saving lives.
Hell, why aren't you running Folding at Home on your computer right now? Honest to God, if you're not running Folding at Home right now, then who the hell are you to criticize?
Education is the silver bullet.
This money could go a long, long way toward improving cultural activity among "every day joes" in the west, as opposed to lining the pockets of suits running the corporate media machines that are stealing our culture by preventing it from ever ending up in the public domain. Sure it's lame Star Trek fanfic, but taking an active part in making it is better than sitting like a lump on the couch.
I believe it was Farscape that tried to create fan-funded production.
5 21 4&tid=129
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/03/16/135
Andromeda was slightly above the fray
First of all, Andromeda was a giant pile of shit. It was nothing more than a vehicle for the former star of Hercules, a cheap gimmick to lure in his fans.
Lame acting, lame costumes, lame everything.
Space fighters that make race car noises?! A whole race forced to wear bracers to support their stupid little forearm barbs? They even had borg-wannabes, that was sad.
Secondly, learn to use the [p] and [br] tags, 'cause no one likes huge blocks of unformatted text.
You can't take the sky from me...
The type of people who watch Enterprise happen to be the most likely to embrace BitTorrent and similar technologies.
As a result, supposed two shows air at the same time. Given the choice of downloading one and watching/recording the other, I chose to download Enterprise. Why?
1) Enterprise is popular. It typically has the largest BT swarms, and often the best S/L ratio (another testament to the types of users who watch Enterprise - geek types are more likely to leave the torrent running after completion.)
2) Given a choice between recording CBS and recording UPN, I choose recording CBS. UPN needs to petition the FCC for a transmitter power increase in the NYC area. Sad when your flagship station's transmitter is a piece of shit and your signal crashes people's MPEG encoders.
3) Higher quality from the Torrent. A combination of signal issues and the fact that UPN's HD signal in the NYC area is shit.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Maybe you and most others don't remember, but there used to be serials which ran in the local theaters. I only know of it from a show on PBS which ran many of these serials and what my dad said about taking his dime down to the movie house for a couple cartoons, some serials and a newsreel.
That's what it was like back when people voted with their feet and pocketbooks to watch a serial. Now there seems to be interest in doing it again, but putting up the money beforehand.
Novel. But imagine the cry for blood when an episode disappoints a donor ... you can't please everyone all the time and you just know disappointment is going to follow.
you work for me now, i want to see more photon torpedos and phasers!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Yeah, because the fans were able to raise enough to pay for Farscape to stay on the air.
And you KNOW, Enterprise HAD to be better than Farscape, right? I mean, Enterprise has a hot Vulcan chick and Klingons! Farscape didn't have either.
All they had were those hot chicks with weird skin colors.
And what was up with all the work they put into different species? I mean come ON, we all know from Trek you save a FORTUNE when you create a new species by just giving them a few forehead ridges.
What's next, a sci-fi show with NO aliens and a wester theme? Sheesh!
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
$50 to $80 million? For a mediocre TV show? How about using that kind of enthusiasm to fund an actual interplanetary mission? It'd probably be cheaper, and would certainly contribute more to society than more lame, recycled plots and lukewarm acting.
That other show in question typically syndicates its reruns a year behind the showings on Sci-Fi.
And guess which network it's syndicated on? UPN.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Jesus H. Really. How much effort will people expend to keep a mediocre sci-fi soap opera on the air?
Wouldn't time be better spent volunteering in your community or otherwise trying to make the REAL world a better place?
"Rabbi, should I buy a Chrysler?"
"Eh, couldn't you rephrase that as a, as an ethical question?"
"Um... Is it right to buy a Chrysler?"
"Oh, yes! For great is the car with power steering and dynaflow suspension!"
I pay around $50 a month for Comcast cable. Assuming that each series costs an average of 10 million a season, and I only watch shows that appeal to at least 1 million viewers who are also willing to pay, that means I can purchase rights for private viewing of a series of shows for $10. I could afford to pick 60 series a year to sponsor for the same cost as my cable. Commercial free and delivered over my broadband. Why get it any other way?
http://injoke.org/index.php?title=privately_funded _media
http//injoke.org -- Culling The Interesting
I don't think Paramount wants to deal with the financial headache of simply setting this up.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Hey, let's outsource it to Indi...*SLAP*
Table-ized A.I.
If I was paying for an entire run of a TV series, I'd at least want to read the scripts. Get a bunch of Star Trek fans involved with a script approval process and you'll have a riot.
No, *I* get the cameo walk on role...
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
So who gets the advertising revenue? A network decides whether a show lives or dies based on what they can pull in from advertising vs what it costs them to make. So if the fans give the networks a "free" show to run, is it fair that the networks get to soak up all the money from it?
I say screw the networks. Put the show on the 'Net. Allow ads to help pay for it. If this fan-funded project works, it could usher in an entirely new paradigm for the financing and distribution of entertainment.
-R
But then again, if they could actually generate a million dollars in that short a short time, the sucess of the effort alone may clearly indicate to Paramount that the show is worth saving, and the money could then be donated to a charity of Paramount's choosing.
So who knows?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Paramount would probably increase the viewership estimates SIGNIFICANTLY if they did something like that. There are a LOT of people who Torrent Enterprise, it's typically one of the most popular torrents on many sites when new eps get released.
Which is in direct contradiction to the now-broken Nielsen ratings.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Geez. Just thought it was sad to burn 80 million bucks like that. I don't need a lecture from some ass I don't even know.
BTW: I actually am Folding like a biznatch!
...is pay SCI-FI network. One that would provide quality shows with no BS every time a season ends. THAT I would pay for.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Ummm...'scuse me? [head bobbing ensues]
Why don't you take yo grammar/html code nazi self and go to hell? While you're at it, learn what a paragraph IS. It's not two or three sentences and then you hit the next block. People who have been writing for far longer than you obviously have typically put in about 10-20 sentences per paragraph. Unless you're still reading Dr. Seuss and USA Today. In that case I'll cut you a little slack kid.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
You seem to be thinking of Voyager, the only ST series with a female captain, and quite a sorry spectacle it was, too.
...The core fans don't watch if for the writing or the acting. They're watching it for the promise that, "Things will get better. Just be patient."
(Of course, we're going to have a nuclear World War III and the Bell Riots before we learn to be nice to each other.)
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
Another vote for more Firefly.
Seriously, watch out for Joss Whedon. The man knows how to produce and write good shows. He knows how to hire good writers to back things up for him. Really, character development in his shows was good enough that even us geeks gloss over the plot/science holes.
Now if the gorram T.V. execs would pull their heads out.
The idea isn't new, there is a site with a survey how many fans would pay for producing more episodes an selling them on DVD:
http://www.fireflymovie.com/directdvd.html
When I see "things" like this happening, it brings two questions to mind. First, why would a network cancel a show when there is obvious fan appreciation. I know the answer to this is money, but when I look at shows like the much loved and ill treated Firefly, or Scifi's Farscape, I wonder why these shows got canceled in the first place.
Farscape was canceled because it "failed to grow" beyond it's viewer base from season to season, and Firefly was doomed from the start (they aired the pilot second, and the second episode first, they also didn't air the whole season. But this leads up to the second question: Why don't studios care about the fan campaigns?
Save Farscape wrote over thirty thousand letters, and Save Angel wrote in just over twenty. These are not just a few random fans. As fans of Firefly, we donated tons of copies of the serries on DVD to the US navy to get coppies on board most of the ships. Fan's of Firefly even created music videos as trailers to a movie months in advance of the movie even being announced. I can't wait until Serenity comes out this summer, serenity for those who don't know is the Firefly movie.
In nature, there are neither rewards or punishments, there are only consequences.
If HBO or Showtime were to produce new Star Trek episodes, it could go where no Star Trek show has gone before.
You must be joking!!
Geez, take the main male character of a previous series, remove his testicles, while simultainiously injecting him/her/it with large quantities of testosterone and what do you get? A politically corrected version of a show that sucked 25 years ago.
Best SciFi indeed....
(complete version found at: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/86/86hgetalife.phtml
William Shatner: You know, before I answer any more questions there's something I wanted to say. Having received all your letters over the years, and I've spoken to many of you, and some of you have traveled... y'know... hundreds of miles to be here, I'd just like to say... GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it's just a TV show! I mean, look at you, look at the way you're dressed! You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!
[ a crowd of shocked and dismayed Trekkies.... ]
I mean, how old are you people? What have you done with yourselves?
[ to "Ears" ] You, you must be almost 30... have you ever kissed a girl?
[ "Ears" hangs his head ]
I didn't think so! There's a whole world out there! When I was your age, I didn't watch television! I LIVED! So... move out of your parent's basements! And get your own apartments and GROW THE HELL UP! I mean, it's just a TV show dammit, IT'S JUST A TV SHOW!
Charlie: Are- are you saying then that we should pay more attention to the movies?
William Shatner: NO!!! THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING AT ALL!!! HEY, YOU GUYS ARE... THE LAMEST BUNCH... I'VE NEVER SEEN... [ walks away from podium ] I can't believe these people... I mean, I really can't understand what's....
[ Emcee argues with Shatner off-mike, shoves him, Shatner shoves back harder.... ]
Second Emcee: Uh... that was William Shatner, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, I'd like to remind you Trekkers that we have some fine refreshments from all over the galaxy... Coke, Diet Coke, Bubble Up, Orange, I believe. We....
[ Meanwhile, Emcee waves the contract in front of Shatner, who then reluctantly returns to the podium.... ]
William Shatner: Of course, that speech was a "re-creation" of the "Evil Captain Kirk" from um... Episode, um... [ Emcee whispers ] THIRTY-SEVEN... uhh... called... [ another whisper ] "The Enemy Within."
[ Trekkies get happy, applaud ]
William Shatner: Yuh, Yuh, so thank you... and, and... Live Long and Prosper...
[ Trekkies make Vulcan "peace sign".... ]
William Shatner: So everybody... set your phasers on stun, cause... THIS CONVENTION'S AHEAD WARP FACTOR NINE, Y'KNOW? RIGHT! ALL RIGHT! WARP FACTOR NINE!
[ fade out ]
If this were to end up working by some miracle, it could set a very bad precedent in the world of television. What TV exec wouldn't jump at the chance to save $50million+ on production when they could get that money simply by cancelling a popular show and having the fans react by offering to pay for another season?
Obviously it wouldn't happen often, because nobody has that kind of money to be throwing around for all of their favourite shows, but still.
- c -
They'll never scrounge up the money to do this. I hope the contigency plan is to give what money they do collect to a legitimate and worthwhile charity.
swanker than you
Shouldn't the ST series be under a Do Not Resuscitate order by now?
Please let it die. Will somebody please think of the children?!
If I may say so, life is a game, and there's so much to do and so few turns.
-Reiner Knizia
Maybe I'm totally off-topic, but I am utterly amazed that UPN (or whomever TPTB are) let ST:VOY complete a 7 season run, during which it sucked with no real improvement, while they are canning ST:ENT when it *is* actually improving. You just have to read episode reviews here and there to see that Manny Cotto (sp?) is indeed fixing ENT (though T'Pol is still wearing a babe-suit despite the fact that she is a member of Starfleet, ugh).
To me, this is short-sighted management, like what Paramount displayed when they canned ST:TOS. Cookies to doughnuts that the ratings will actually improve over time if they let it go for a 5th season (esp. if it concentrates on the birth of the Federation, character development and interactions).
The first two seasons did suck (though there were *some* interesting episodes), but S3 & S4 are definitively better. If the series could continue (to exist & improve), it could become a new syndication/rerun cash-cow. That's when UPN/Paramount would make REAL money, not when it's in its first run... Why can't they understand that? Why can't they think long term?
I bet the suits can't admit *they* broke the show when they ordered it to target the [teenaged boy who just discovered another use for his right hand] audience instead of letting the crew create good sci-fi. Don't make the show too challenging, have token babes prancing around and have a lot of fire-fights. Yeah, that should attract a lot of 13yo male viewers!
I bet you they still don't understand what makes ST:TOS reruns popular to this day. F*cking suits.
From the unofficial project FAQ at TrekBBS: "Why donate for a TV show and not for social aid? It's not an either/or option. Of course the most noble donations are those for humane causes, and I'm sure many of us here are supporting aid organizations and their work. But independent from that each day people spend alot of money on entertainment products, cinema, superficial things. To use just a little of this money (what equals to one cheap DVD or CD) to keep the show you like on the air, isn't a bad cause then either, is it?" It's not any more "selfish" than buying that season set of DVDs from that show you like.
has actully snowballed into a project that no one has ever attempted before
Um, wrong. Farscape fans attempted this while trying to save the show. Unfortunately we had to stop because of potential legal issues. Something about needing a production company.
Dude, you're thinking of "Voyager" (which is, I agree, a load of turd). I think Enterprise is pretty good, but I still wouldn't pay for it.
TOS: enjoyed it in reruns as a kid. Thought the first season ruled, the second season was mostly good, the third season was headed downhill fast. Lesson: the quality (read: intelligence level) of the show's producer(s) matters.
TNG: first seasons wildly uneven. Cheesy opticals (FX), unclear story lines, characters were thin at best. Season 5 was generally good. In the end, okay, but cut out about half the episodes. Lesson: quantity does not equal quality.
DS9: A great idea, indifferently executed. The whole Bajoran gods idea could have been a fantastic bit of sci-fi, but in the end they just were used as deus ex machina. The introduction of the war story arc (although probably a response to Babylon 5) rescued it and made me actually want to tune in. Lesson: go somewhere with your big idea by giving the writers a framework.
Voyager: Interesting idea (lost, out of touch), horribly executed. Janeway was in need of serious medication, as she was at a minimum bipolar. I wouldn't follow her as a leader for a month, much less years. The producers introduced ideas and at the end of the episode would use the "magic reset button" of time warp, tech change, or the jargon of the week. The ship acquired technology which gave it advantages, then the next episode it would be gone and might as well have never existed, to say nothing of frequently suffering damage which should have required time in dock. Utterly uncompelling and frustrating. Lesson: there's no point in having a show if it's not going anywhere with the characters, story or even the technology.
Enterprise: I knew that when I heard who would produce that it would be garbage. When I heard the theme song, after cleaning up the vomit, I knew my worst suspicions were nowhere near what they should have been. The time-machine reset button, the unbelievable screwing with the canon, the notion that a ship could be remote controlled all the way from the Romulan Empire...
Just...let...it...die, folks. The idiots who produce it are incapable of doing good work. It's just a money machine to them. Giving them your money is counterproductive. Find someone talented like Joss Whedon or Strasczinsky (sp?) instead. Don't save Enterprise.
A sig is a waste of bits.
It's doubtful that UPN wants to keep a low-performing show on the air, even with fan subsidies. But pay cable is by definition about fan subsidies. They come up with great programming not to get people to watch a specific time slot, but to subscribe.
The Stargate SG-1 franchise originated on Showtime and they're much more likely to do original sci-fi/horror than HBO seems to be. It's a perfect match. Viacom would be stupid not to at least explore transferring Enterprise to pay cable to see if it would drive Showtime revenues sufficiently.
Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
No, you said
"[...] compare [...] a natural disaster with [...] a failing television show?"
You popped off on a misunderstanding of the post, which replied to the original question asking about the "last time [...] couch potatos [...] $80 mil together for [..] or charitable distribution?" You're still harping about people putting money into a failing TV show, as has every other post you're bashing. You got it wrong when you flew off the handle - suck it up already, and show some integrity.
--
make install -not war
Yeah... Captain Archer makes one ugly woman!
It's not like networks have had much incentive to produce really good shows for a while now. People, it seems, will watch just about anything, despite the common complaint that 'there's nothing on'. Now we're going to have to start paying to watch fair-to-middling TV shows and *still* have to put up with commercials? Remember when cable TV came out and everyone talked about how awesome it would be to pay a monthly fee instead of watching commercials? Now we're going to be paying production costs and STILL getting 17-19 minutes of commercials per hour. Fucking terrific. What's next, paying ad agencies to produce the commercials? Paying them for the privelege of being lied to? It's getting ridiculous. No, I take that back. It's already ridiculous. We're paying to watch ads on cable, paying to watch ads before movies (and during them, in some cases *cough* demolition man *cough*). Next we'll be paying those fuckwad marketeers to let us watch their new 'original' commercial involving a) stupid males, b) obnoxious teens, c) men treated as meat, d) bizarre comparisons (one company's flagship product vs. competitor's budget product), e) non sequiturs which never show nor describe the product, or f) all of the above. Throw in the standard song from a formerly rebelious band (who either sold out or died and whose greedy inheritors have sold them out) and you have the vast majority of commercials today. I suppose they must be effective, but that thought makes my soul weep. What happened to 'This is our product. Here's what it's capable of. Here's our evidence.'?
(note: that's a rhetorical question.)
http://xkcd.com/386/
And apparently, you expect enough people to "donate" to the cause of getting you free music instead of donating that same money and effort to other causes that you feel they should donate to (in other words, causes YOU think they should donate THEIR time and money to).
Why aren't you expecting them to support (cause X) instead of your music habit? Go buy your own iPod, or donate to something, with your own money! But as long as you're trying to tell people what to do with THEIR money in a way that benefits YOU, your message kind of gets lost in that sig of yours.
i am a soviet space shuttle
What about Tru calling? There's a show -- with Eliza Dushku -- that was decently original, but got the sack from Fox apparently in the last month or so, with decent ratings up against shows like CSI and Friends.
Now the second season is all over BitTorrent from its one airing in New Zealand. FOX LOSES (money)!
Chris
Why don't you take yo grammar/html code nazi self and go to hell?
Fuck you, keep on writing your stupid thoughts in big blocks, it'll makes it easier to ignore your pointless posts.
Should have known the moment you praised Andromeda that you were a worthless, dumb, fuck.
You can't take the sky from me...
.... it's only like $20 million a fan!
*ahem* Just kidding. I know there's a lot of people out there who like it. Just not enough to keep it on the air. And to some extent, I blame the Extreme Fanboys who've done nothing but badmouth the effort since it first aired.
While I enjoy Enterprise, I support it by watching it. If it's gone, I'll be bummed, but life will go on.
I will agree, though -- The current Battlestar *rocks* -- This is one show that, if it maintains its current course and speed, is really going to set a *very* high bar for future sci-fi.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
Could it be considered an investment? If the season does well, we get some kind of return.
The series isn't that bad compared to the others. And, I was a big fan of Quantum Leap and Scott Bakula.
Actually they are talking the new remake of Battlestar Galactica. Which is the best SciFi series ever. Watch it the whole way through the season finale is one of those shockers.
Sliders?! You're kidding, right?
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
Even if the total production costs are 80M...even if the show is unprofitable...won't it recoup a *little* of that money throughout its marketable lifetime? Seems like the production company would be doing well to raise only the *expected loss* from donations, plus 10% or so to give them an expected profit.
Also, how about fans spend a few bucks instead for an *independent* star trek series? These are Star Trek geeks after all! Did any see Trekkies or Trekkies 2? Some of those guys have some great ideas (not to mention technical talent) that would translate to a professional quality, subscription based series for something in the low millions.
I think the near future of Star Trek lies with the MMORPG that's supposedly in development. You can see from http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000891.ph p that gamers spend less time watching TV than other people and honestly if I wasn't playing an MMO game so much I would probably still make some attempt to watch star trek.
So they (Paramount) have an opportunity here to capture a lot of their old star trek audience and maybe make more money off us. If they (game developers) can find a way to make the game (or a portion of the game) episodic and involve actors in it, that would be extremely compelling for me. Personally I have no faith in star trek games, but you know. Prove me wrong, developers.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Consumers pay for shit all the time. Who had the best selling CD last year? The year before? Who knows, but I do know for a fact that it was shit.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
They could sell vials of Vulcan sweat or something. The geeks would line up to pay.
I drank what? -- Socrates
The guy who came up with the idea said that he didn't want to attach any demands to his contribution. But I say: Why not?
If Trekkies really want to save the show and donate money to get a season produced, they should also demand that the producers released every episode on popular P2P networks a couple of weeks after an episode has aired.
This way those who paid for the production costs could actually get the stuff they paid for back, and what's better: Anyone could download and watch the show. For that has to be the point of donating: Keeping the show alive and spreading the Gospel of Star Trek to all Unbelievers out there?
There's no better way of doing that than giving the show away for free -- legally and with high quality .
Interesting idea. You'd have a "official" BT site for series episodes (necessary so that ad buyers could verify actual download counts).
Potential snag: you'd be adding potentially substantial costs for storage and transmission bandwidth to the existing cost of production.
How do you subsidize these costs assuming...
1. You probably won't be able to up slot costs significantly. Even allowing for the attraction of more solid view counts, why would an agency spend more money buying slots here when the same content would reach more people for less money over the air?
2. Networks will not accept any degradation of profit margins for the show.
Thoughts?
I can't tell if you're confusing Enterprise with Voyager, or if you're making a subtle comment about Archer. :)
It's OK! I'm a limo driver!
I was going to sign up with your freeipodshuffle link, and then I thought to myself that instead of wasting my time signing up at a website, I should go donate it to a non profit.
I mean, if I can give ten minutes of labor to someone, then it would be sad if I donated it to helping you get an iPod instead of helping someone have a roof over their head, right?
I think I'll call Habitat for Humanity now.
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
This is an ideal job for The Digital Art Auction!
It's designed precisely for this purpose, i.e. enabling a large audience to collectively fund an expensive work such as a TV series.
Moreover it ensures that everyone pays the same price, and no-one pays who can't afford the price.
That we get to have that godawful theme song FINALLY REMOVED from Enterprise.
Screw this Star Trek crap.
Who's gonna pony up with me to get a second season of Sailor Moon Live?!
... Lucas to get him to stop making Star Wars films?
Or at least to let someone else write the dialogue. Lucas used to know that he couldn't write dialogue and let someone else do it.
I'm surprised this didn't happen with anime first. After all, then you're not stuck with particular actors. You can get one-off voice actors. And you have the creative fanbase with the motivation to do this sort of thing. After all, they do fan art and fansubs and AMVs.
Okay, someone's probably done it, but it was probably just hentai or somthing along those lines.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
The number of logistical hurdles fans would have to jump over in order to pay for a season of a tv show makes this approach pretty much impossible. If fans really want another season of Enterprise, they should lobby Paramount to release a new seson directly to DVD. Complete season DVDs of television show in general sell very well, even if that show didn't do so well on the air. Obviously the profit margins wouldn't be as high as a complete dvd set of old episodes, but if fans want a viable business model that ties their direct financial support towards the production of new content, this makes more sense. I leave it up to my fellow slashdot members to work the numbers.
Don't try to make excuses for it.
This dude's so mad right now.
I posted this as an AC and they mod it INTERESTING?????
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
"This is what happens when you give people who only have a profit motive primarily in mind the keys to the kingdom." They wouldn't make a profit if no one was buying it. Looks like you'll need to, um, "re-educate" the consumers first. Which is really what you have in mind, right?
Praised? I "praised" Andromeda? I did nothing of the kind. Your reading comprehension skills need a little work. I simply said that Andromeda is better than ALL of the original series and pilfered series that SciFi has done since the mid 90s. Farscape? Crap. Firefly? Total shit. Stargate * were both doomed when they had any affiliation with SciFi. But... they persist because they are popular (not necessarily good, just popular). I would say that in a long sewer pipe filled with foul smelling stuff, Andromeda is the least stinky of the lot. At least they had decent story lines. I like my science fiction to actually focus on the characters, their situations and some realistic aspect of science or the future. I don't like science fiction where the central focus is on war, violence or basically mostly action. (Yes, Andromeda has too much of that for my tastes but they make up for it with decent plot lines.) And don't get me started on the shittiest shows ever: Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine.
;)
Blah. Here's a "new paragraph" for you to keep you happy.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I love you too.
Excuse the self plug but http://www.ideacradle.com/ was created for exactly this kind of community action. It lets people commit to donate only when enough others have agreed so it is fundraising without the need to commit funds.
I'm building co-operatives right now at http://www.ideacradl
-- $SIGNATURE
In an old SNL skit, Tom Hanks played the president of the "Guy who played Mr. Belvedere" fan club. The fans needed a secret way to refer to the Belvedere actor, so they called him "Broktune". Skit listing
And what's wrong with a more educated consumer? Someone who can actually tell the difference between shit and shinola? Is that bad in your worldview? If so, I don't want to live anywhere near you.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I'm a huge star trek fan, but come on! if you're going to give away money, why not give to cancer research or something else productive?
I'm sorry but I already paid with my wasted time by watching the dreck in the first place.
Sure, but look at what I'm responding to. You've got every right to spend your money as you see fit (more or less). What's silly is bolstering that by saying you can't afford charity after that. Of course you can, you just chose to spend the money elsewhere.
If admitting that makes you feel bad about yourself, the correct solution is to reevaluate how you spend your money, not to try to justify it.
Never confuse volume with power.
Just let Star Trek die, preferably until anyone currently working on it is too old to try again. TNG was pretty good most of the time, Voyager was Lost In Space and DS9 was a B5 ripoff. Just let it rest.
Damien
I was immensely against this series before it aired, and most especially because of the changes to Starbuck, which I felt like was akin to rewriting the bible and making Jesus a woman.
I will however be the first to admit I was completely wrong about BS:G.
So far it has been nothing short of brilliant. What has especially impressed me is the overall tone of it. I think it was Ron Moore who said (paraphrasing) that the original series wasn't true to it's own premise... in the original, within a week or so of Caprica being devastated, they were in bars on other planets with other humans, having a blast, generally not acting like the future of the human species hung in the balance. I never thought of it before, but damn it if he wasn't right! I still love the original series, but I do view it in a different light now. The remake has really gotten this right, in the extreme. There is a truly palpabale sense of dread throughout it, and that is fantastic as far as I'm concerned.
But...
This is NOT the best sci-fi show on the air today. It's third, near as I can tell, behind Stargate SG1 and SG:Atlantis. SG1 has been the best for some years now, ever since Babylon 5 went off the air actually. Atlantis has come on unbelievably strong this first season, and I predict here and now we're going to be hailing it's greatness 10 years down the road when it's still chugging along. And it wouldn't surprise me it SG1 was still producing new episodes then too!
And if B5 is still airing in your market, than IT is the best show on TV today.
None of this takes away from how good BS:G has been though. It has completely proved me wrong. Hell, I'm even getting used to the new Starbuck, I think the actress playing her is doing an excellent job in the role. If they can keep this up, it's going to be a fantastic and long ride!
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
Oh I so agree with this. Bones say's it best, "It's dead Jim." Let trek die, it deserves to die. If it has any chance at all Fire Berman and all the writers.
Battlestar Galactica is by far the BEST sci-fi show on to-date. When Serenity comes out later this year and (I pray) becomes a series again then we will have the two best series.
But it's OK for you to sit on your soapbox and talk about what a shame it is for consumers to spend $80 mil on a show that they really like? ...and then call a stranger politely partaking in a public conversation an ass? Shame on you.
-Turkey
... the guy who says "if I paid for the season I would expect a part in it, but since that would happen I won't pay".
I'm pretty sure if he ponied up the $35 million US to pay for a season he would indeed get a part.
But for $12 US to pay 1/3,000,000 th of the cost, best he can hope for is to be an extra in a group shot, after paying for his own transportation and costume.
Oh well, takes all kinds...
Ahh, yes, the great and powerful Mostajes. Indeed, a god amongst trees everywhere.
</silly>
If fans are footing the bill they better make the episodes an hour long and not run any damn commercials.
that would pay Fox if it brought back "The Tick"?
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach him to fish and he'll wipe out the species.
Why don't they (the fans) just promise to buy all of the products advertised during the commercials? Isn't that what commercials are for - to pay for the TV shows you are watching?
to go the fan fiction route. Fans have been writing their own stories for decades. Fans have also come up with some pretty nice CGI starships and space scenes. Some of the costumes people have made for conventions are excellent. If a sufficiently dedicated group of fans got together, I'm sure they could put together an episode or two of their own that would be at least as good in terms of story quality as any of the Paramount episodes, and have decent effects. This could be done with a small enough group of people to be manageable, and without the need to raise millions of dollars.
I, myself, have absolutely no interest in the show whatsoever, and I don't care if it dies. But if someone else is really into it and wants to keep it alive, I'm not going to piss in his punch bowl.
I wouldn't have thought of the endless legal questions, but somebody surely will. Show stopper, in my opinion.
Two other things immediately struck me after reading the article:
1) $36 million divided by 3 million fans = $12/person, but does any campaign of this sort ever get anything like 100% response? I would say more like $36 million divided by the 10% who would actually send money, which would make it $120/person. Doubtful.
2) We'll get criticism from the press that we are willing to pony up cash for a TV show but not for Tsunami victims
Let them whine. There is always famine and disaster somewhere in the world, but people still buy cigarettes, lottery tickets and gourmet cat food. That's life.
If I'm gonna pay for it, then I want a part on the show. I'm thinking the token black guy.
Even if by some miracle enough money was raised by fans, that may not be enough for the network to continue to produce the show. If they think they can make more money by showing something else, even if it costs more to make, then Enterprise is dead. Remember that a network isn't in the business to show the best TV, it's in the business to make money.
Given these hypothetical numbers, if you were the network, which investment would you rather make?
Enterprise
Cost = $0
Revenue = $100 million
Profit = $100 million
Show X
Cost = $50 million
Revenue = $200 million
Profit = $150 million
I watched all of TNG, DS9 and All over Voyager, yes Voyager 7 full seasons and never only watched a handful of ST:E episodes. If a show sucks then it sucks, nothing to do with bittorrent. However the only reason I watched a handful of ST:E was because I cancelled my cable, yet I never bothered to download even one ST:E episode because of lack of interest.
did you forget to take your meds?
They do not make show for the fun of it they make shows for Profit.
If it cost 80 million to make the season then ask for 85 million and use the extra 5 million to audit the costs and keep track of the millions of potential investors in the show.
In the long run the show should make money if it is good enough. So sell share in the show.
I would kick in $100 if I knew that would get the season started and I would eventually get my investment back over the sale of episodes through DVDs, syndication, etc.
Each fan would own a very small percentage of the show but if the show show is popular enough they will get their money back.
Either put up or shut up idea.
My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
Archer/Kirk ... w00t!
(ewww... no)
If they can raise $88M, or even $35M, the fans should just buy the show, rather than "donate" production costs to Paramount. Then sell advertising, like any other show, except perhaps geared more to their own fanbase's interests. They could forego some profit margin to sell more Trek-related goods to themselves, and wind up paying that $12-30 each year for products their community prefers, and getting their show as a vehicle. If run properly, this "enterprise" could even turn a profit, return a dividend, and pay for itself handsomely, just like any other TV show.
--
make install -not war
It's about the "not-so-silent" majority of poeple who support space exploration, and all things related. It's abbout all of us who grew up in the Shadow of Apollo 11. It's about all of us who want to help create e new Generation-S (Space). It's about people who can do the simple math and see that if we don't get off the planet soon, well ... It's about people who have an undeniable passion for this, as Carl Sagan once said in an address to the Senate, "This is fundamentally a religious issue."
I've been told by several people that the last point is a bit crazy. Well, I challenge anyone who can add to argue the numbers with me. Actually, forget that, there really is no argument.
Lastly, it's about a group of people speaking with a real voice, not by Nielsen ratings. It's about democracy and grass roots. It's about so many noble things.
D
If the full amount is reached then does that mean the contributors will collectively own the rights or the rights to a copy or something? If its shown on TV will it have adverts? I think it would be easier to either petition or get people to come up with half or a quarter of the amount that way producers would see the demand and put up the other half of the money, say reduce the amount of advertising and still make a tidy profit? What will happen if the target isn't reached? mass refunds?
I do think this is an interesting way of funding films, although I reckon it could be done on a far lower budget - actors, once they get their face in it know that the fans want them and they are essentially well paid hookers who eat out most of the money (COUGH Friends COUGH) and unfortunately that's going to happen to absolutely every actor so there's really no way around it. production work however, certainly for something like star trek would draw massive interest from people willing to donate their time - both professionals and amateurs who want to get into the industry (deep down everyone wants to get into tv). I see a big future for films paid for this way if you can get the right mix of donated budget, good, focused volunteers and people who can act without getting up themselves - guess who is absolutely missing from this loop? ill give you a clue, they do allot of coke and get allot of head.
Unfortunately there are some big downsides to this: Things with big fan bases - star trek, star wars etc are owned by the crack addicts and they're not gonna let fan episodes start getting made. It needs good film ideas/scripts etc that people can really get into and most people are going to want to sell their good scripts/ideas to movie studios for shit loads of cash (i certainly would) thats capitalism for you, its a bitch until you're actually making the shit loads of cash and then you don't give a shit about stupid volunteer films. Ok i need to make some millions..
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
...that will save the show!
Lt. Redshirt: Aye, Keptin!
Captain Beavis: (to Troi) You! I order you to undress and show me your,... uhhuhhuhhuh,... thingies! Hehhehheh!
Lt. Cmdr. Butthead: But Captain, that violates inter-galactic laws, or something,... huhhuhhuh!
Captain Beavis: Number One! I order you to go take a number two! Hehhehheh!
This is cool! huhhuhhuh!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
There's little more than crap on TV. If I can subscribe to shows I'd like to see then who cares if Fox executives don't like it or it ticks off some group of bluehairs? Subscription will mean better quality - shows won't have to cater to the lowest common denominator. Even 1 million subscribers is probably enough to cover the production costs for a good scifi show. TV syndication will probably be where you get the profit.
As for Trek, I gave up. Compared to FireFly, Enterprise just doesn't cut it. There was something interesting now and then and lots of eye candy, but overall I consider the quality of Enterprise to be poor.
Your mileage may vary, batteries not included, etc.
Actually, grandparent was referring to the Sol, national unit of currency of peru, you insensitive clod
After all, "It's just a TV show!"
The way some of these people on saveenterprise.com are talking, you'd think it was the second coming of Christ!
As Dr. Bones McCoy has already said (over and over in his grave):
"It's Dead, Jim!"
Let's just let Star Trek die and rest in peace,... And then bury Berman and Braga alive with all the damn tapes of the freakin' Nazis in Space! :-)
If the episodes could be downloaded off the internet, and they were DRM protected, you could ensure that most of the interested fans would actually pay the $12 per season required to fund the whole thing. AND you wouldn't even need the TV networks or the entertainment cartel involved.
This is the perfect case for DRM technology.
The entertainment cartel keeps thinking that DRM will save them because it prevents people from copying their shows. But DRM would also enable people outside the cartel to produce content *that would have to be paid for* to be viewed, thus eliminating the one thing the cartel has that no one else does: a lock on distribution. So it would break the cartel by enabling shows like enterprise to be fan funded and independently produced.
I imagine the financial arrangments would go like this. If you pay $12 for the season, you can register your DRM player and download the episodes as they are produced and watch them. After some delay, decrypt codes are published for the shows and they become open content.
So the $12 lets you see the episodes as they "air". If aren't that interested in the show, you can watch them after a delay of some weeks or months, at which point you may or may not become so interested that you might be willing to pay.
I didnt mean cant afford charity after that.
what I meant (and thought to be obvious) was that its not reasonable to expect everyone to give all their money (after they cover life necessities) to charity every month. Its impossible to know how much money you're going to need in life anyhow. Would you be comforted by the fact that you gave your money to charity when you get sick and cant afford the hospital bill? I'm exaggerating, but I'm just trying to make a point.
Personally, I dont donate any money to anyone. Not a dime. I spend my money on toys for my car, and DVDs, and DLP projectors... Do I feel bad about that? not in the slightest. I'm more than happy to discuss why with anyone who cares to listen (in summary, I worked hard for it, and I really just dont give a damn).
Why not simply take out a contract on Berman & Braga? That'd cost a whole lot less in the long run, plus it would prevent the spread of TrekDrek disease. Too bad JMS didn't get to do the Trek pilot.
I mean, really. It is shit.
the sun hurts my pale white skin!!!!! owww!!!!
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
Also, who do they think pay the production costs now? This "new idea" is what happens every day on the stock market, and if there really was investor interest, the show wouldn't be on the chopping lock.
Okay, this may be totally off the wall, but this makes me wonder...
What would happen if UPN were to create a tracking stock for the Enterprise series? This would allow investors to directly show their level of interest in Enterprise vs. the rest of UPN. Hard-core fans could buy the tracking stock to demonstrate their interest and commitment...
And this wouldn't have the legal issues that direct fan funding of the series might have.
I don't know if it could work, but has this ever been considered?
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
we can only mod you so low man. need -536234 *cough*
...on the price and on how it is done.
I pay a ridiculous price for cable right now. I watch several shows on a semi-regular basis, and record That 70's Show and Battlestar Galactica weekly. My wife watches a little bit more. My daughter watches lots of children shows. I feel I get my money's worth. If I were a single guy, I wouldn't have cable (and when I was, I didn't).
A Netflix type system might work, but there are some shows I would probably like to own. Netflix doesn't allow for that, unless you rent it first, and then pay more money to buy it somewhere else. I think I'd rather just purchase it outright for a fee more than Netflix and less than (Netflix + DVD).
I'd like to see something like iTunes or allofmp3.com for film. Let me download not only the shows I want, but the individual episodes. How wonderful would it be to never see another clipshow again because no one would buy it? Even better if they give me the option to purchase on DVD, and to specify the encryption rate, et cetera. I can watch what I want, when I want, commercial free. I can burn it to DVD, play it over the network to my laptop, or whatever.
I would probably save money at $3-5 an episode. Especially since my daughter has no qualms about watching the same episode of one of her shows 3 or 4 hundred times.
But when you take it all into account, even if it cost slightly more it would be okay, because I could watch when, where, and how I wanted to watch. I would save boatloads of time not watching or fast forwarding through commercials. And the quality would be improved, because if it wasn't, bad episodes wouldn't sell.
Getting the non-creative shithead businessmen the fuck out of TV/movies would be a massive improvment.
What if Bill Gates payed? I'm pretty sure he'd do it if Enterprise ran Windows XP - and it'd give the slashdotters a laugh when it BSODed right in the middle of a battle :P
--
Geez. Just thought it was sad that a good T.V. show is going to be replaced with even more reruns of Elimidate. I don't need a lecture from some ass I don't even know.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
BTW: Groovy.
Education is the silver bullet.
If you can do it for BattleStar, why not? Now let's see, who could we cast as Kirk....
Sliders first series was an interesting concept, then they decided to start changing the cast. Now they've got rid of Quinn which is just stupid. Oh and they just *had* to bring in some badguys.
Didn't mind Andromeda at the start but I'm really not sure about the latest series... seems a little light on storyline (they've dumbed it down and it wasn't exactly university level plot in the first place!)
SG1 is on its way downhill and should be killed while it's still vaguely good... I'd hate to see it go the way of Star Trek (see!! I'm On-topic!!).
Can't stand BSG... It's so bad I just can't even stand to watch it. Maybe it's a US/European thing - we didn't 'get' Firefly or that other thing I forget the name of (the one with the muppets) over here either....
I freaking hate PBS pledge drives and would gladly pay them not to have them, if it weren't for the occasionally nifty (and otherwise unobtainable) pledge drive "gifts".
Here's what I think would work for me:
Simply put a catalogue on their website and in the occasional issue of their magazine (such as KTCS connects).
They can even use a short spot to remind us of the need for support and perhaps feature a "gift" at the beginning of the occasional show all throughout the year. After all, the worst part about their beg-a-thons is that they spend freaking 10 minutes or more in the middle of the freaking show! Even Commerical TV doesn't do that.
Attach a dynamo to Gene Roddenberry's corpse and play the first few seasons of Enterprise at his gravesite. Sell the electricity generated from his spinning corpse to the power companies and it should be more than enough to finance several more seasons of the show.
But Enterprise at its best is not the same caliber of a show as Farscape was in its worst day.
Its agree with most that it has improved during the last season, ( how could it get worse.. ) but i dont think will be enough to get the same sort of rabid support farscape had ( has ).
Sort of a shame, the show had promise, and could have been damned good..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
### WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD ###
I have seen it through and I have to say that it gets worse and worse with every episode. The pilot/mini-series started of really well, but the series itself quickly turned into some pseudo religious mambo-jumbo non-sense mixed with some rather weird technical issues, especially in the end (Starbuck beating Apollo in a Cylon fighter which she is flying for the first time ever, start to search for fuel only short before its completly out, human-looking Cylons being near impossible to detect, Dr. Baltar's fantasies and weird behaviour, yet nobody seems to care, Cylons constantly talking about god and fate, no humans in the cities left, Boomer being cylon, Boomer being pregnant, etc.).
The series has its good moments and the beginning was quite impressive, but it has way to much Cylon mindgames going on, with little or no explanation what the Cylons are all about in the first place. I mean first they nearly wipe out human race, then they have multiple Cylon infiltrators on Galactica, yet instead of blowing away the rest of man-kind they start playing weird games with them instead, just doesn't make all that much sense.
Id be happy to contribute to this fund, It would probably cost less. I think i would enjoy this more than another 3 season of enterprise too.
"Battlestar Galactica might be the best SciFi airing right now."
/.ers are having wet dreams about it. Some of the ideas seem novel; but they don't appear to have the writing and/or acting talent to actually pull them off. I only made it about halfway through "33" before deciding I'd wasted enough of my time on it...
Hmm, I've tried watching the new Galactica, and I just don't see why so many
#DeleteChrome
I'm guessing you didn't read the new EULA? You're only licensed to walk on those in certain approved manners. Skipping is a big no-no.
Apologies if this is redundant; I'm not following the thread. You could make a real business model rather than some sort of silly charity. Reduced cost for buying a DVD set of the season before the season is filmed. I can think of better causes to contribute to than Star Trek, but I would have no difficulty signing up to support a series a liked on this basis, especially if it eliminated the need for commercial breaks. mt
mt
okay, point taken, sig removed. You people are all right, how could I be so stingy! Saving Enterprise will help so many people! I'll pledge 100 bucks on behalf of all you people who responded negativly to my post!
Guys, I have seen the show.
Believe me, I have paid.
Decontamination gel on more jubblies could make it up to me.
Rubbing some decontamination gel on my borg ass-imilation device would be just fine.
Ok, sorry. One of the two episodes I watched was the opener where the timid vulcan chick decontaminated her boobies. The other had to do with some Nazi crap with some aliens. I gave up quick.
I mean, paying for a new series of Enterprise? How about a movie time-line series with the Excelsior under Captain Sulu? I'd pay for that!
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Which is exactly why it has so much potential. Instead of being a long and drawn out "how long can we stay alive?" They are going for some deaper motivation behind the cylons. The mumbo jumbo stuff has presented itself, by no means does run the whole show. Hell the commander is dead against it.
Besides saying "frack" the series has no real flaws. It's got good acting, good plot, charater development. They even managed to have a big budget with nice special effects.
If you don't like it fine. So far I have not heard anybody mention anything better than it, that's for sure.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
I'm really disappointed by the way the slashdot crown has exploded in rage against the few people who had the audacity to suggest that money could be better spent on other things.
Sure, it's opinion. Enterprise can be extremely valuable to one's entertainment. There's a price that should be paid for that. We all understand that and I don't think anyone's arguing that.
The shear kickback I got for suggesting cancer research as an alternative is amazing. I don't understand why so many people here feel personally attacked when an opposing opinion is mentioned. I think I'm going to swear off these juvenile slashdot comments from now on.
THis is crazy.
You'd pay extra to get sci-fi channel, then pay again to buy the programs for it?
Can I sell you my house?
Public TV don't make money, they break even, if at all. Hello? Profits?
Suing quotas must be met for profitability. Can't sue 10 year olds and dead grannies because the show isn't popular enough. Hello? Think of the profits!
First episode of Sliders was pretty good. I saw some of the first season recently. It's about as good as Enterprise... crap.
Andromeda was never good. SG1 is definately losing it.
I know there are always those that oppose something just because everyone else likes it. BSG is nearly perfect... see my post below. As for Firefly, well it was another well made series. You probably wouldn't like it.
You were thinking of Farscape. It's actually a well made series, but it was hardly ground breaking. BTW, only one alien looked like a muppet.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
$15 a month will cover 15-25 DVDs from Netflix for me, which is more than I will realistically watch, with enough left over to buy one or two if I really like them.
I'm not much of a "keeper" type-- I don't need to own the media except in the very rare cases of my absolute favorites, but I'll pay to watch it once or twice.
Comparing shows you watch once on your tivo to DVDs you buy to own forever isn't really a fair cost comparison. Netflix is a better match-- and if DVD releases were closer to initial air dates, it would be good enough to replace DTV for me.
If your dealing with star trek, your dealing with copyrights up the ass. So if you manage to raise $50 million to create a show, why not pay a production studio to produce the show indiependently and distribute the film on bittorrent or DVD?
Im talking about a completly orginal show. Not one you would have to waste money on licencing rights for.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Good music too. Subscribing got you real time video of them in the studio. Subscriber only streaming audio concerts. A CD and more. Check it out.
And Mac Minis are different how? ;) Just can't resist commenting on that!
i am a soviet space shuttle
Wrong Show.. Voyager had a female captain, Enterprise has Scott Bakula. But that's besides the point.
The original series had KIRK. Kirk cannot be compared to any other captain in the ST universe because Kirk's Prime Directive was to seek and and find new alien civilizations and determine if "all the parts fit", if you know what I mean.
Kirk was THE MAN. Kirk GOT LAID. Kirk had his priorities straight. Kirk was the pimp-daddy of all pimp daddies.
The rest are just pussies by comparison.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
Wow, get the people who *watch* a program to fund it! What a great idea! However, instead of getting people to donate their cash directly why don't the tv execs just split the program up into bits and sell off the gaps to other guys who want to sell the fans stuff?
Hey, they could even maybe record the programs onto CDs with like bigger capactity (lets call them DCDs (dense CDs)) and then sell these directly to the fans themselves.
In these ways popular programs could actually be funded by the people who want to watch them!!! Of course though there is a down side: occasionally a program will be so duff that none of the fans will want to watch the ads, or buy the disks and it'll have to be canned. Never mind though - *if the program was so shit that not even the die-hard fans want to bother to watch it* then it deserves to be dumped. Naturally the money saved can then be put towards other more deserving programs - perhaps those with a more 'Western in space' like feel.
If they make another MacGyver season, he would call for help using a homebuilt WiFi device made out of a piece of chewing gum and a light bulb.
Lets stop pussy footing around. There are no ownership or copyright issues.
You start with a plot outline, create a shooting schedule, line up some actors, start filming, put the thing out there.
The quality of the visuals will NOT be up to Star Trek vehicles to date but the writing could be much better, the acting could be better.
Even the set could be a digital one to allow 'transportation' at no cost (think of the techniques used for the "Polar Express".)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
i dont know why people want to save this serie......i was a huge start trek fan until each series started using the same damn themes over and over again (except for deep space 9) enteprise is just a lame copy of star trek original series ,,,far west theme...medieval theme,,,alternate reality theme,,,,,,,,overall they should have stopped after deep space nine....
I would vote for a return of babylon 5,,,now that was a GREAT compelling series for whoever watched it all
I would have thought, if this does happen (which I doubt), that the money could have been better spent in a charitable way.
My web domain.
if fans are going to be copping the bill then they should ave more rights over the show, maybe start an organisation where fans can submit scripts and have a demorcratic vote on scripts.
:)
this organisation of fans could have membership fee's to pay for the show and wiki scripts
-shrewd.user-
I liked that show...
That and Sliders and Time Cop I think it was called.
Whatever that tv series was called (and no, I'm not referring to the movie)
Their logic is horribly flawed.
>divided by 3,000,000 viewers
Who ever said that every viewer is going to dish out money to see a show they may not even care for that much. Just because someone is a "viewer" doesn't mean they're a die-hard fan. Most people don't give a crap about a TV show because they have lives.
The amount of die-hard fans (that would actually pay money) is probably less than a thousand. So if everyone wants to dish out $35,000, go for it. But I'd rather use that money to buy something actually useful (assuming I HAD it to begin with).
I strongly recommend the "get a life" comment.
What are people gonna spend all that money for? So that Berman can keep his job and further make trek fans suffer? I say take all your money and donate it towards the "Hire Jean Reno to Clean Berman" charity fund. Now that's something I'd give my money to.
Why can't they move Star Trek Enterprise to the SciFi channel? I'm sure it would do better there and seems to be a natural fit.
I hate that the show is going off the air. I was a regular viewer until this season. They switched it from Wednesday to Friday night and never made any kind of announcement that I ever saw.
The season was a month old before I discovered the move.
I believe they moved Sliders to SciFi for a while.
Is there any chance something similar could happen with Enterprise?
- dj
worst sci-fi ever possibly, this seanson of enterprise was good, especially the vulcan episodes and the augment episodes, and the romulan "maruader" was great, especially when we got to see ships from the vulcans, andorians, and tellerites.
I can donate that to the cause or sell my +2 sword to save Star Trek.
I believe science fiction has played an important role in the past but will play an even more important role in the future. The reason for this is simple: technology is evolving so fast (from decades to years to months) that society can barely keep up with it. Disruptive new technologies are often designed, implemented and deployed and then it takes years for society to adapt.
Example: Cell phones are everywhere now. Who anticipated the personal rudeness that cell phones would cause, with users interrupting face-to-face interactions in order to talk to a remote person? Who imagined ring tones and how much we would all hate them (or love them)?
Some of the technologies coming down the pipe in the next 20 to 50 years will be astounding. How is society going to react to them? What if cheap, ubiquitous mollecular nanotechnology (MNT) becomes available? The economic, political and social ramifications would be enormous. Quite frankly, no society in the world is prepared to deal with that yet. But (like nuclear weapons) once the cat is out of the bag, it will be impossible to put it back in. Somehow we'll have to live in that world and adapt our society to the new technological imperatives, and hopefully not destroy each other in the process.
Science fiction is valuable because it lets us explore the issues now. It will take decades to work out the political and social impact of nanotechnology--so we'd better start now! Science fiction puts the ideas in people's heads and gets them thinking about it. Sci-fi authors (like no other genre) can set a scene for you like, "imagine a world just like ours, except with [disruptive technology X]. How would life be different? What uses and abuses of X would be popular? Who would benefit and who would suffer? Would some uses of X have bad effects for society? Is there any way to counter them?"
Sci-fi authors can explore these what-if scenarios before they become reality. So we have time to raise awareness, convince people to think about the implications, and try to design technology that is easy to use but not as prone to misuse.
For society to keep up with the frantic pace of modern technological change, it needs all the help it can get.
I don't know that that was the first time either. I really wish people would stop equating "the first time I've heard of it" with "the first time in history."
demi
...if I get to see Jolene Blalock's tits!
...with hardcore fans.
I am starting to have a bad feeling about networks threatening to cancel shows that have hardcore/passionate fans. I think there is a big chance that the network is just canceling the show to get the fans moving and get a lot of publicity and more viewer ship.
The fact that they announce the cancellation of the show when they still have episodes to air is also very suspicious...
Right. Because your first comment was so positive and cheery.
Look, you took a gigantic crap in someone else's cereal, and now you're shocked that they don't like it.
I'd like you to post every dollar you've ever spent on entertainment and justify to us all why we shouldn't judge your spending to be wasteful.
It's not that you've got a bad argument - it's that you're pretending that it has a logical basis which does not apply to you, too. Merely because you don't like our show. Superbowl ok, Enterprise bad.
It's just sad that people have to pick on us out of a pretend sense of superiority. That's all. You can go ahead and mock our show. I'm not judging you. I'm just saying it's sad that you don't have something better to do.
=P~ Pbbbth.
Education is the silver bullet.
The facts are that this is far far from a true movement. A guy posting on a fansite is hardly "the shot heard around the world". Look at at saveenterprise.com... God, they're begging for money for a newspaper ad and people really think that drudging cash to pay for the production of the show is more than a pipe dream? Man...
Secondly, what they mean by saying that the show is cost prohibitive is that there aren't advertisers willing to back it. You'd probably have better luck buying advertising time than paying for the production of the show. I'm sure some advertisers would stick it out and the rest of the commercial time would be filled with Trekkies screaming for other Terkkies to send more money because the next season is coming fast. It'll look like PBS with freaks instead of Lawrence Welk.
And I know I sound trollish. Sorry. The fact is that there is tons of sci-fi works that have merit and a fanbase that have no chance in hell of ever getting network time. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it still won't work, good intentions aside.
Lastly, it must have been a slow news day to post this up.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Someone came up with a $120/head number, but would only be the cost of production. Unless you are going to run it commercial-free, the network should rebate some of the advertising revenue in lieu of having to buy it. You might get a check back larger than your 'donation'...
if a lot of money gets raised, why waste it on a TV show? I'm a Trekkie but I didn't like Enterprise from the first episode. I'm sick and tired of the lazy writing from Berman and co. Give Trek a break! Get some fresh ideas!
Why waste the money on a TV show that will probably still be boring.
Why not give it to CHARITY?!?!?
As science struggles on to try to explain.
Oxytoxins flowing ever in to my brain.
I've been paying for it ever since I watched an episode...I still cant sleep at night. :)
If I was paying for an entire run of a TV series, I'd at least want to read the scripts.
To each their own. If I were paying for it, I'd want to NOT read the scripts, so as not to spoil the surprise. But I would prefer the option to be available, because I figure it will be better if some of you guys read them first and bellyache if there's any problems.
Then again, this being Enterprise, maybe I would like to read the scripts first before spending the money. But my wife and some members of my family like the show, so they'd probably be content regardless.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
Isnt the technology good enough yet to do without any actors or sets?
You create "digital doubles", including voice capture, and proceed from there. No more aging immortal robots then (sorry Data).
Can I pay them to STOP making Star Trek crap?
filmcritic.com - Movie reviews on Internet time
Seriously, what are they thinking? That silly Enterprise show getting canned is a good thing IMHO, since it was the worst star trek series I've seen yet.
Hopefully, now the Trek producers now will pull "The Sisko" out of that worm-hole he's stuck inside of, and get him back to his spacestation ASAP(same goes for o'brian and Worf).
Fine, I'll put it this way...
You seem to be enthused about the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie (from other posts on Slashdot).
How much do you think that's going to cost per hour to produce?
Okay, now how much per hour is Enterprise going to cost to produce? 1/10 the price?
Now, you think HHGTTG is more important than cancer research or a deserving charity, but Enterprise is not? How exactly is that?
Good god people, what's this world coming too?
Education is the silver bullet.
A network that people have to pay for stands or falls on the content.. Think:
Farscape
BG
Stargate
Programs that advertising alone struggles to pay for.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Weep for the future, weep for us all...
I understand your point. It's been made here at least 5 or 6 times. It was not my intention to become irate about this, so I'm sorry. I tend to degenerate into writing that sort of tripe after a while, especially here on Slashdot for some reason.
Personally, I don't like Enterprise. To be fair though, I haven't watched it in a few years and I've heard it's gotten better (that seems to be the pattern with Star Trek shows). If you want to pay for another season, then best of luck to you, I hope you get to watch your show.
The only point I was trying to make (maybe poorly) was that I'd rather see 50-80 Million dollars go to cancer research rather than the production of a TV show. That's my opinion, you disagree, that's fine. I'm not insulting you, for all I know you work in a soup kitchen on the weekends.
I do spend money on entertainment of course. I may spend 7 dollars on the HT2G movie (14 if I can talk my wife into it). Probably 7 though. We may see 4 to 5 other movies in addition. That, and we spend 40 dollars a month on cable and maybe 10 dollars a month on movie rentals. So that's almost 700 dollars per year. Last year I spent 4000 dollars on charities. So I do put at least some of my money where my mouth is, although I'm not sure how much credibility that will give me in this botched argument at this point.
So, I'm feeling that I'm portrayed as some sort of bigoted ass in this thread, some of that has to do with me maybe being one I'm sure. I just wanted to let you know that I'm a little better than what I may seem in the context of this thread.
So let's put a nail in this thing. I understand your point (and the points of others). If it were me, I'd spend my money in other ways. But certainly I won't criticize you for spending your money how you see fit.
-T.
They're not different at all. Not even in the slightest.
However, I do restrain myself from saying "People should donate [x] to [y] instead of using it for [z], because [z] is a selfish and sad use of [x]". As a result of this, I do not have to feel that I have compromised my integrity by saying one thing, and doing another in the same manner that the author of the post I replied to did...
Yes, I am well aware of my own sig. But thanks for your concern =)
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
The cost of Bit Torrent distrubution is orders of magnitude lower cost per viewer then TV.. htm
http://www.videotechnology.com/economics_of_video
Add's can still be viewer and pay for production costs. And better tracking of viewers can be done.
Where Can I find and get into these groups trying to save the show?
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
Our Cox Cable here owns all rights to UPN, there is no UPN option over the air.
30% of the USA cant get UPN
I have Direct TV. There is no UPN channel.
I would love to watch star trek. Either add a national UPN feed like they have on Dishnetwork or move Star Trek to the Sci fi channel, t
Now you're getting reasonable with me?
Don't you know anything about Slashdot?!
No, you're right. I guess it was the flood of other people who posted roughly the same thing, and the fact that you exclaimed "Good god," and how it'd make you cry that got me off on the wrong foot. *shrug*
I actually hate Enterprise. =P I watched three maybe four episodes. The opening theme song alone is enough to stun a team of oxen.
I have about 20 minutes per compile cycle, and I waste it by defending the honor of geeks who lack the language skills to defend themselves. =)
But honestly, I'd be willing to pay about $5 per new episode of The Family Guy, and about $3 per new episode of Futurama. (And Eek! the Cat, and Cupid, and The West Wing, and...) And you seemed to be attacking the whole idea of for-pay entertainment. Sure, that's a valid argument. I really honestly think it is a valid argument. But you kind of fumbled the wording, and I'm in a pissy mood - so I picked a fight with you. Sorry, buddy. =)
Cheers.
Education is the silver bullet.
To make this work, saveenterprise would have to prove, as a first step, that they have access to 38-88 million bucks.
They key would be to set up an escrow account with, say, Paypal? that would accumulate real money. If they can achieve the target amount, they have some real POWER. If they cannot achieve target, then the money should be paid back from escrow.
Here's a cute thought: how much interest can 88 million earn in a couple of months? I don't think escrow accounts can be invested, but... jeez. At the end of the money raising period, if the project went bust, everyone would get their cash back, minus admin fees for the escrow holder, plus interest earned. Yipes.
Why didn't anyone think of this for Whedon's Buffyverse? I hearby propose sending someone to JW's house with a proposal.
The power of this kind of project is unlimited, if you think about it. Building Rutan's SpaceShipOne cost about 20-30 million. An escrow fund could build spaceships. Space stations. How much to go to the moon, if you wanted to do it cheap and practical? A billion? That's a few hundred dollars for each star trek fan. A small investment in a club, and you not only could finance SF, you could finance instead the reality.
That's alright. I'm at fault too. I'd shake your hand and buy you a beer, but I'll mark you as a "friend" instead.
Later-
Oh, I don't think you did! I was amused more than anything. But I agree that it was rather disturbing to see so many people who think it's not OK to do anything for yourself and that you HAVE to (or so it seems) donate all your money to "charitable causes!" Doesn't do much recognition of the fact that different people have differing opinions of what contributes a 'cause worthy of support'. I haven't donated to the Red Cross (although I do believe in giving blood), but I have donated to a local raptor (bird of prey) sanctuary that does education work and rehab/release. (I admit to some oversaturation of money-begging; seems every single site out there is shoving an ad at you pushing donations; I tend to react badly to being oversaturated with an ad for a given product/service/whatever and actively avoid buying it if the ad annoyance level grows too high.)
i am a soviet space shuttle
No, *I* get the cameo walk on role...
Fanatic1: My super wizard powers protect me from your phasers!
Fanatic2: You jackass, we're playing space explorers, not dungeons and demons.
Fanatic1: Suck my black hole then!
Fanatic2: You can's suck a black hole you dumbass.. once you cross the event horizon, your atoms become..
Fanatic1: Just shut up..
Fanatic2: ripped apart and.. hey, you shut up!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
No, he just owns the people who made the shoes.
the last episode of enterprise that came out had 2.5 million viewers. if this number can be held on to then the entire season 5 with 22 episodes? would have 55 million viewers. if each viewer on average gave $1US then the low estimate of $50MilUS would be met. and if each gave just $1.5 then $82.5MilUS would be reached to meet the high estimate.
i for would would throw out $5 to watch the season.
Anything has to be better than the latest god-awful Stargate series (UK CH4). As my young son said to me, tearfully: "When will we see the spaceships, Daddy?" and "When is the man going to stop talking?". OK I paraphrase but all the same...
I wish at was Friday, but I dont want to wish my life away. So I wish it was last Friday.
completely and shamelessly off topic now, but my iPod was free =)
Curiously enough, not a single signup from slashdot (I never put my freeipods link on slashdot, unlike my freemacmini link). With the $300 I saved from not having to buy my iPod, I just bought a laptop. Slashdot really isn't the place for the links. I put the macmini one in there more as a joke against all the "I hate freeipods links!" folk =P"
You're right though, it's not *that* hard to save three hundred bucks... I just have better uses for it than for stuff I could get for free =)
I think this is a great idea. A subscription based model could work, and I don't think it has to be all that complicated.
1) Pilot(s) are aired, distributed as freely available torrents, whatever. Not all that different to what they're already doing these days, with shows like Firely not even getting a full season, for example.
2) Fans pledge money towards a full season of the show, one season at a time. This could easily(?) be accomplished, if Paypal (for example) were to implement a Pledge system. Stick your money in the fund, and if it doesn't happen, you get them back. That way, it is actual money talking, and not just empty promises.
While I have opinions on whether I'd rather get episodes on DVDs in the mail, or downloading them, I really don't care that much. The important thing is that I get the episodes.
Why oh why isn't this already being done? Someone make Mutant Enemy do this? Pretty please?
...maybe now they can afford to fire some of the jackass writers involved so far and actually make it [i][b]UNIQUE and INTERESTING[/b][/i]!
Why not raise the money and create a Free Star Trek Set, almost every trekkie out there in the world has some sort of CG model of about every piece of star trek prop. So create a "Open Source Star Trek" comunity finance it with donations, trekkies submit scripts organize some freelance trekkie actors ( wardrobe would not be an issue) that way the money goes back into the fan community. I dont think i have to give any ideas of how this would be distributed ( /me bows to Bit Torrent ), and who knows maybe some TV Network would pick it up. Then when its super popular, we willrelease the STGPL ( Star Trek General Public License ) and stick it to "The Man".
Verne didn't write about nuclear-powered submarines. Indeed, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea was written over 40 years before the atomic nucleus was discovered by Rutherford. The Nautilus used an unspecified new form of electrical power.
Everyone is comparing enterprise to Galatica but I don't have a TV and haven't ever seen this battlestar program. Where can I download it to watch on my PC?
The network killed it once already by constantly re-empting it with crappy reality TV shows and changing the time slot.
Even if the fans pay for it, where would it be broadcast? On the same network that killed it?
Face it - it an age where scientific space exploration is done by throwing crappy robots at a planet and hoping they work if they don't make a crater first - where people can't even turn on the primary communication hardware on a probe that took 7 years to hit Titan - where the most dazzling pictures come from an orbiting telescope that was busted from start to finish - what would you expect?
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
Although I hope this plan goes through, I understand why Enterprise has been cancelled. The characters (or perhaps it is just the actors) are terrible and the plots are only beginning to be okay. The show needs to be rethought and redesigned. The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine were excellent shows, having complex, believable characters, addicting plots, and being just plain great. Voyager was somewhat good near the end, but never measured up to the others. Enterprise sucks, but so did the other serieses at first. Let's give them one more chance to try to make a tv show worth watching, even if it means replacing much of the staff. New people will have new ideas, and this will revive Star Trek.
---If all the Harry Potter fans had given to charity instead of buying the books and watching the movies, that would be hundreds of millions of dollars;
For one, the lady who made Harry Potter was on welfare in England at the time. She tried publishing her book to numerous book studios, which subsequently turned her down. As a snippet from Publishers Weekly article published on December 21, 1998...
"Lacking child care and unable to take a job without it, she [Rowling] went on public assistance. In many ways, she says, it was one of the lowest points of her life."
and,
"She found Christopher Little in 1995, in the Writers' & Artists' Yearbook (the UK equivalent of Literary Market Place). He was the second agent to see her book -- the first had sent it back "virtually by return of post," with a form letter. In the year that followed, three publishers declined the book on the grounds that it was too long for children."
So seriously, it was completely possible that the millions of dollars be spend elsewhere..
And as your "point"--- If all the Harry Potter fans had given to charity
Rowlings was considered "charity".
Has anyone checked out http://www.killenterprise.com ?
There's a market for vanity books (the author pays for printing); why not vanity movies where a fan club acts the role of movie producer? A sort of group home movie made as slick as the budget and current technology allows. Volunteers doing many otherwise paid tasks combined with video/computer technology, using seti like multiple computer use for CGI, and it starts to look feasible.
People on Slashdot have been saying the internet will take away the monopoly of the entertainment providers; that the internet is a new cheap way for consumer/citizens to take back control.
It has to start somewhere. Why not with Star Trek? If not now, when? If not by technocrats, who? Let the revolution begin, and screw Hollywood!
Salaries cut - if they don't like it, there's a couple options. People who are unwilling to take a paycut:
1. killed off in a massive attack on the enterprise, bringing surviving crew members and unknowns to the forefront.
2. changed to look like other people. Possibly by Q or to go undercover.
CGI budget gets cut
1. Time-travel into the future into Kirk's time. Use appropriate special effects, etc to make it match the original series.
2. Concentrate on story, not effects.
Additional outside income
Paying extras - Star Trek fans pay to be extras.
I wouldn't pay for the show, but I'd pay $50.00 for a pay per view of Hoshi and T'Pol deeply french kissing for two hours. And don't forget the, gloriously, now standard Trek lesbian kiss saliva strings.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
None of you have mentioned futurama! How dare you!!!
It is viable to produce a series that is commercially viable without commericials. You could then market the series without the need for FCC regulations, keep artistic integrity, and other problems. This has been done before though costs need to be kept in check.
Anime has done this and these series are called OVA (original video animations). The series are not broadcast and people buy these series straight to tape. The thing is, you can't just produce schlock and sell it as an OVA and expect to make money on it. It needs to be just as engaging as any movie or series. The money then made goes straight into the production company's pocket. If revenues are substantial enough, these series sometimes make it to the small or big screen.
imagine a beowulf cluster of cannons that shoot Rick Berman into a freeway divider.
Hmm, well in his paid episodes, all computers would have to switch to the Windows line of products. Now that'd be prettty funny to see; imagine everyone on the bridge using a mouse and keyboard, staring at their lcd monitors to do all ship functions:
Captain: What's the oxygen content of the planet's atmosphere?
Ensign: It's.. (click-click, taptaptaptap, click) Take a look captain, according to this excel data sheet on this system, it looks good.
Captain: Hold on, (click-click).. I've got it. Ok, I'll head up a drop team, and there of use will go down and investigate. Hold on, first let me enter this into Outlook and Project first... (clickity-click tap tap taptaptaptpatpatpatpatatptapt)...
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
We almost let enterprise slip into the background without it drawing too much attention to the destruction of the Franchise. But then somebody has to go and drag it's ugly ass back out into the light. Let it die.. just let it die Please, as a Star Trek fan, let it die.
Get rid of Berman. Kick the timeline another 100 years and bring in a new fantastic looking Enterprise. Make the use of the wormhole to get to the Gamma Quadrant. No damn time travel missions. More exploration and dammit give me more space scenes. Klingon attacks.....romulan war....whatever. Make it exciting and do a story arc like B5 and BSG does.....
:D
I personally just got caught up with BSG tonight (thanks SciFi for replaying the two I missed back to back!). Starbuck flying back that raider with the starbuck painted on the underside.....awesome.....make a point....equip all viper pilots with a can o red spray paint!
Gorkman
I'm all for a funded-by-viewers approach to Enterprise as I think that Enterprise has the backstory to be the best and most relevant of all the ST spin-offs. It could have been the ST spin-off that would have made 'real people' (== non-geeks) take notice of the storytelling power of Sci-Fi.
Unfortunately, from the outset the producers of ST:ENT choose to make superficial visual kack. The series should have stayed close to home dealing with politics and infighting on Earth. Showing space agencies and corporations vying for power over space exploration, over information technology and over the way the sciences infuence our lives. Enterprise could have been a playground for exploring differences in culture, religion and science ON AND AROUND EARTH in the near future - with the odd personal intrigue story thrown in.
ST:ENT didn;t need a new set of insanely out-of-the-canon set of Xindi aliens. We humans can make a massive hash out of things without polluting the ST universe with an annoying 5 subspecies set of unconvincing aliens. Ironically, now in the 2nd half of the final season, the episodes are better than the average ST:ENT dross because they feature Old Skool aliens! Andorians, Tellerites, Romulans, Vulcans and Klingons. Using the well-known ST aliens and setting ST:ENT in a much smaller universe from the start, would have allowed the writers to explore the classic ST cultures in a deeper fashion. ST:ENT should have deepened our understanding and appreciation of the CURRENT ST canon. It should never have created new aliens or resurrected the hollywood Nazi.
Finally, the pre-teflon federation timeframe of the prequel offered its writers more freedom to make Enterprise 'rougher' and more 'realistic' than any other of the ST spin-offs. ST:ENT was a golden opportunity to do away with that horrible moralising, puritanical streak of US corporate content creation. It failed miserably.
We live in a time when the Big Idea is dead or dying. Personal conficts, the tension between technology & tradition and plain old love/revenge/making-ends-meet stories are the ones relevant to our time. ST:ENT tried to boldly go out into the stars when it should have boldly gone inward, dealing with the messy times of character development and socio-political intrige involved in the genesis of the uber-modernist Federation.
ST:ENT has turned out to be a massive missed opportunity for relevant storytelling. For fumbling _that_ ball, Berman et al. should be hung from the highest lampposts on the studio lot.
- It took western civilisation 2000 years to ensure popular literacy, and now we work with icon driven GUI's. Go figure.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that Galactica is a better show than Enterprise? I was all jazzed to see a new Galactica series. It had so much promise. The writing has just been horrible. The female Starbuck was such a retarded idea that they've even started calling her by her real name "Karin". It's like an hour long melodrama. Star Trek is 100 times better.
People just won't pony up for this. We are the /. Generation, we like Open Source, cheap broadband, we download movies, shows and music as a matter of routine.
We are very very pampered right now and we've gotten used to getting top quality product for free or next to nothing.
Take a look at the BT sites, most of them have a Paypal link to help with running costs but they don't get a hell of a lot.
Hell even LokiTorrent has to work hard to drum up the tens of thousands it needs to retain lawyers to defend against The Man. And look what it offers (ed) in return, a huge library of movies and shows at DVD quality, more gamez and appz than you could ever use and an iPod busting MP3 collection. That's a hell of a lot and they have to *work* to raise a five figure sum.
You think Trek-heads will pony up a buck or two for an hour of advert riddled TV.....
...and I'll pay it to anyone who can guarantee the franchise is given a rest for at least a decade.
Money is funnelled into next production, fans vote on the people in charge not direct control. (come on wrap your head around indirect democracy here).
DVD's are distributed for free, open source style.
The show doesn't need to make massive money, it's already financed.
Once the fans have paid for the show they don't need to milk it, they just need enough for the next show.
Ok, so I dont post much here, but I feel compelled to write. Enterprise is dead. I mean I am glad that Star Trek still has it's fans, like me, but the series sucks! I have been privileged to watch all the different incarnations under the ST name, Enterprise was the worst. The why is easy... Rick Berman the self proclaimed heir to Roddenberry has only had $$ in his eyes over Star Trek and he pushed to far. Enterprise the series was supposed to take us back to the beginning. Instead, just like the last 3 incarnations of the Star Trek series Berman allowed the show to use a formula that became boring and predictable. We're in space traveling along..OH NO another new species and they are hostile.. OH NO they are chasing us around the Alpha Quadrant.. OH NO they have a 50/50 infulence on the planets in this system.. OH NO how do we patch these rods together on this episode to stop them? It started with DS9 and ends here with Enterprise. It is a sad state, but Berman and his Bermanites can't sell a lame show this time. Yes, keep Star Trek alive, Yes move it to it's natural home on SciFi, Yes people will watch, but this time give the riegns to someone else so the creativity flows and Star Trek will once again produce a genuinely unique take on our future and fans will once again flock to watch. LLAP Mark
Am I the only one that was pissed off that Firefly stole Dark Angel away from me?!!??!?!?!
Dark Angel was my favorite show and Fox killed it the same way UPN killed Enterprise moved it to the friday "everyone is out not watching tv" night timeslot.
Whats worse is they canceled a show so they could replace it with a show that they would canceled only a year or 2 later....
Didn't even give James Cameron a miniseries to end it properly.
I sent an email to Paramount about a month or two ago suggesting that since Star Trek is an institution and without it mature science fiction on TV and in the Movies would not have occured, that perhaps on the order of PBS, the fans could "support" the show with contributions. I still think this is a good idea as the show will rise or fall on the fans back. If the quality isn't there the donations will stop. Face it, with TIVO and DVRs the advertising money is dwindling and fan support may become more and more common in the future. Tuck Neilson
Keep on pondering, and suddenly the flower of mind will bloom with enlightenment, illuminating the whole universe.